The New Speaker Avoided a Shutdown. Can He Avoid Being Ousted?

from New York Times I'm Michael Boro. this is the. [Music]. daily. today by working with Democrats to avert. a government shutdown at the end of last. week the new Republican house Speaker. Mike Johnson seemed to put himself on. the same path of self imulation that. doomed his. predecessor or did.

he my colleague Katie Edmonson on why. this time things could be. [Music]. [Applause]. different it's Monday November. [Music]. 20th so Katie the US government did not. shut down over the past few days as many. had feared that it might or would.

especially given the dysfunction we have. observed and talked to you about. endlessly from this Republican. controlled house over the past year. that's right Congress was staring down. this deadline at midnight last Friday. Government funding was set to expire. unless Congress came to some sort of. deal to keep the government funded and. there were a lot of questions as to. whether Congress would be able to make. that happen they were working on a very. short time frame in large part because.

House Republicans really wasted weeks. trying to El a new speaker and then. there were a lot of questions about what. that new speaker speaker Mike Johnson. would do once he got the job to try to. avert a shutdown right and the fact that. there wasn't a shutdown was very much. the work of this new house speaker so in. brief what did we learn about speaker. Mike Johnson from the fact that there. wasn't a shutdown I think the the first.

thing that we learned is that Mike. Johnson as Speaker operates differently. at least so far than Mike Johnson the. rank and file member did so if you. remember back in September Kevin. McCarthy really the last major thing he. did as Speaker was to pass this deal to. keep the government funded through this. November deadline and he used Democratic. votes to do that and that was a deal. that Mike Johnson opposed he voted. against keeping the government open back. in September.

fast forward to November now he's. speaker he chose in this case to rise. above his own hard right ideology and to. instead make the decision to keep the. government open and to use Democrats in. fact to do that H and I think the second. thing that we learned is that in doing. so he has invoked the ire of the freedom. caucus in such a way that puts him on. potentially a similar Collision Course. to what former speaker Kevin MTH Ary.

found himself on at the very beginning. of his job with those hard-right. Republicans because even though Mike. Johnson really was considered one of the. freedom caucuses own the freedom caucus. obviously was very unhappy to see Mike. Johnson pass this short-term spending. bill with Democratic votes okay so tell. us the story of what happened during. this almost government shutdown that was. averted that helps really explain these. two learnings that you just laid out.

well when Mike Johnson is elected. speaker he automatically inherits all of. the spending drama that eventually led. to the ouer of Kevin McCarthy and so the. first question really was how is this. completely untested speaker going to. handle this and the first move that we. saw speaker Mike Johnson make was if you. remember the Israel funding bill that he. put on the house floor and that was a. really partisan measure mhm he didn't. Advanced legislation just to send Aid to.

Israel he structured it in a way that. said well in order to send this money. we're going to cut a bunch of money that. the Biden Administration wanted for the. IRS right a clear signal that his. approach to this job as speaker right. off the bat was very partisan very much. about like sticking it to the Democrats. that was the first message that he sent. and so the first indication was well. maybe this is someone who is on every.

important move going to nod to the hard. right flank of the party that he came. from okay so that's the impression we. have of Johnson heading into this. extremely high stakes question of will. the government shut down so how does he. approach it what happens Al so he. actually pulls a page from Kevin. McCarthy's Playbook and that is by. taking a lot of meetings with the. various factions of the house Republican. conference so he heard a lot of varying. opinions there were some Republicans.

within the house Freedom caucus who said. let's have the shutdown let's Force this. discussion about how we have to cut. spending and if that requires us to just. shut the whole place down so be it chip. Roy said I'll eat my Thanksgiving dinner. on the floor of the house and have this. discussion right this is the group of. Republicans who are basically saying. McCarthy didn't have the courage to do. what needed to be done so brand new. speaker Johnson you should do what he. wouldn't shut it down take a stand cut.

government spending at any cost which. would we should note be in line with how. Mike Johnson acted for years yes that's. exactly right and some of them were. saying well let's pass a bill that has. deep Cuts in it and when the Senate. refuses to take it up as we know they. will because Democrats don't want to. support those types of deep spending. cuts right then let's blame them for the. shutdown now of course he hears an. entirely different message from the. moderates who tell him of course we.

cannot have a shutdown especially right. before Thanksgiving it's going to look. terrible if we just spent 3 weeks. fighting among ourselves unable to elect. a speaker and the next thing we do is. shut down the government right and then. there's a final group of players that. he's talking with and that's over in the. Senate and he checks in with Senator. Chuck Schumer the majority leader over. in the Senate and Chuck Schumer tells. him in order for any sort of funding. mechanism to be signed into law it has. to be bipartisan you have to work with.

us because that is the reality of this. government let's keep government open. and we'll work with you so after hearing. from all these various factions what do. we know about what Johnson is thinking. at this particular juncture well we. really didn't know that much about how. he was thinking about this and we would. talk to the lawmakers after these. meetings and they would say you know he. listened to us a lot but even we don't. really have a sense exactly of what he. might be planning to do and so as we.

kept getting closer and closer to the. deadline and we weren't receiving any. sorts of leaks or sort of glimmers of. how he might approach this there was. really a sense of suspense building I. think for everyone because he kept. getting closer to this deadline and did. not have really any visibility on how he. might try to get out of it okay so when. do you finally get a leak or glimmer. well in classic Congressional fashion. Speaker John holds a conference call.

with his members where he tells them the. bill that he is going to put on the. house floor to keep the government. funded is not going to have any spending. cuts it will not be conditioned on any. conservative policies being passed into. law so what he unveils to his conference. is essentially just a bill that is going. to keep Government funding flowing. into early next year.

H now he did throw a bone essentially a. very small bone to the house Freedom. caucus with this plan and that the way. he structures this bill funds the. government essentially in two. steps and so in order to keep the. government funded again in early 20124. lawmakers will have to take one vote to. fund some parts of the government in. January and then they'll have to take a.

second vote to fund the rest of it a. couple weeks later in February mhm and. the reason why he structured it this way. is that the house Freedom caucus for. years really has complained about the. idea that they've had to vote to fund. the government in one up or down vote. and so this breaks that into that takes. away that grievance but at the end of. the day this is still a clean spending. build that he's advancing which is very.

hard for them to accept it is pretty. much a replica of what Kevin McCarthy. put on the floor back in September that. angered the freedom caucus so much that. they moved to oust. him okay so what happens when Johnson. does this well I mean the conference. call was still continuing when one. influential conservative chip Roy of. Texas took to Twitter to say that he. would oppose the plan. you know normally people wait at least.

until the conference call is over to. announce their opposition but I think. that gives you a sense of how angry. people were and I think honestly some of. the freedom caucus members were really. surprised that Mike Johnson took this. tack because again in their mind he's. one of them and so I think they were. expecting to see something that heed. closer to what they wanted to Doh so. then the question becomes is this. something that Democrats will support. because clearly the number of Republican. defections to this plan are stacking up.

in such large numbers that we know. Democrats are going to be required to. pass this on the house floor and so we. initially hear some grumbling from. Democrats on this and some of it is. Showmanship but a lot of it also frankly. is substantive and they are really. frustrated by the two funding deadlines. that this bill lays out but at the end. of the day we hear some Democrats saying. the quiet part out loud which is this is. great for us because there's no spending.

cuts and there's no conservative. policies attached to this this is. exactly what we. wanted the house will be in order and so. members will record their votes by. electronic device this is a f minute. vote when the vote is all said and done. with early last week on this vote the a. are 336 the N are. 95 we see that a large number of. Republicans have opposed this plan more.

than 90. wow and in fact every single Democrat. except two supported it 2/3 being in the. affirmative the rules are suspended the. bill is passed and with that objection. the motion to reconsider lay on the. table which means Democrats put this. Republican spending bill over the edge. and Johnson had been kind of transformed.

into someone capable of bipartisanship. on a very meaningful scale that's right. he chose the McCarthy route in using. Democrats to supply the bulk of votes to. keep the government. open I want to yield it to our speaker. Mike Johnson thank you Steve I want to. thank this extraordinary leadership team. they're doing a great job and I mean. this is something that he is sensitive. to or aware of at least and we see that. manifest in a news conference that he. has on Capitol Hill shortly after the.

vote Fox thank good morning my question. is how hard of self has this been to. your members because they said this is. essentially the same thing that bounced. Kevin McCarthy and if you get a reporter. says to him look you know the arch. conservatives are really unhappy with. this decision that you've made and. speaker Johnson actually kind of. interrupts him and says Chad I'm one of. the arch conservatives okay and I want. to cut spending right now and I would. like to put policy writers on this but.

when we have a three vote majority as we. do right now we don't have the votes to. be able to advance that right now so. what we need to it's just that the math. didn't work here this is the only way. for me to keep the government open and. funded I've been at the job less than. three weeks right I can't change I can't. turn an aircraft carrier overnight but. this was a very important first step to. get us to the next stage but for those. Arch conservatives that's not really a. satisfying answer and so the question.

for them becomes can they believe. speaker Johnson when he says to them. look I'm still one of you. [Music]. guys we'll be right. back so Katie if you are a student of. this Republican controlled house and. this moment in American politics The. Logical repercussions of what Speaker. John did and working with Democrats to.

avoid a government shutdown is that some. Far Right House member walks out onto. the floor hits the ejection button and. begins a process of basically ending. Johnson's speakership so does it look in. the hours and days after this shutdown. is averted like speaker Johnson's going. to suffer that fate well we saw Freedom. caucus members come off the floor and. reporters were rushing after them saying. well you know are are you going to do it.

again are you going to move to vacate. him for this and we heard a lot more. sympathy for Mike Johnson from these. Ultra conservative members than you know. we ever heard them give to Kevin. McCarthy in fact Matt Gates who. obviously was the lawmaker who. successfully moved to oust Kevin. McCarthy he says well you know everyone. gets one. Mulligan we also hear from a number of. Freedom caucus members that they are. unhappy with this decision but they.

don't really begrudge speaker Johnson. personally if you characterize it as a. football game at the end of overtime. down three touchdowns right that's when. Johnson came in and you're trying to say. do you hold this quarterback to the same. standard as the quarterback that got us. to that point no we do not but because. after all he's only been on the job for. 3 weeks it's like throwing in a. quarterback in the fourth quarter and. expect him to make up for three quarters. of failure and you're behind 359 nothing. so so they're going to try to afford him.

a little bit more Grace but why I mean. if he did the exact same thing you might. imagine them feeling that the Betrayal. is even deeper I mean I just think it. comes down to at the end of the day they. never really trusted Kevin McCarthy was. it worth though topling McCarthy given. you the same the same policy worth it. every day and twice on Sunday he at. least he doesn't lie to us and they see. Mike Johnson as someone who who. generally they've been able to trust.

they generally see him as one of them. mhm but there also are some lawmakers. who are really angry we're too cowardly. to stand up and do our job oh no a. shutdown are you freaking kidding me. representative chapoy of Texas again who. is the first Republican member to come. out against this plan who couldn't even. wait for the conference call to be done. to contain his rage says that for him. Mike Johnson putting this plan on the.

floor amounts to strike one and strike. two H we went through an entire month of. drama about a. speaker and we just did the same damn. thing we've been doing and we hear some. Republicans who just say look we can't. go on this way we cannot allow anyone. whether it's our friend Mike Johnson or. someone else to continue business as. usual and do they start to in any way. act on their anger at all we see them. begin to act on their anger the very.

next day. H so part of the idea of advancing this. short-term spending bill is to give. Republicans in the house more time to. pass their individual spending bills. this was a big priority of the house. Republican conference right let's not. have the one up or down vote to fund the. government let's do it the old school. way and we are going to vote. individually on on 12 spending bills to.

fund all the government agencies right. the kind of fantasy of Republicans doing. it the old school way actually passing. Appropriations Bill getting a budget. done so that the US government doesn't. Lurch from shutdown crisis to shutdown. crisis yeah that's exactly right and so. the day after Mike Johnson passes this. stop Gap spending Bill to avert the. shutdown he says all right you know. let's get back to what we said we were. going to do let's try to advance one of. these spending bills that funds the. justice department the Commerce. department for example and what we see.

the house Freedom caucus do is. essentially tank The house's ability to. pass that bill in a block they all vote. against this procedural step to allow a. vote on the bill and it brings the house. to a crashing Halt and this is a move. that is really meant to be a very clear. rebuke of speaker. Johnson so they're voting against a. spending bill that they themselves.

describe as a crucial priority in their. efforts to make government function much. better than it has and that embodies. conservative values and they're. basically just doing that to show. speaker Johnson how pissed off they are. that's right and if you want to get. super technical about it they're not. even voting against the bill they're. voting against letting the house. consider the bill and that's important. just because in previous years that was. considered sort of a third rail it was. just something that lawmakers didn't do.

but this has become actually a sort of. tried and true method of bedeviling the. house Speaker for the freedom caucus and. we know that because it is a Playbook. that they used on former speaker Kevin. McCarthy when they were upset with him. for putting bills on the house floor and. passing them with Democratic votes right. so if you're speaker Johnson and you're. seeing this tactic of Torment used. against McCarthy used against you you. have to start thinking yourself there's. literally a ticking clock now.

potentially on my speakership it is a. pretty vivid example of deja vu and we. saw speaker Johnson who normally is. pretty Placid we saw him kind of storm. off the house floor after that happened. and on his heels in fact were members of. the House Freedom caucus who came out to. Statuary Hall to tell us reporters you. know we just put the speaker on. notice so Katie that's where things were. when the house went into recess for the.

Thanksgiving holiday Johnson on thin ice. with the far right and the far right. having basically said to Johnson you are. in our sights be extremely careful so I. want to start to project forward just a. little bit because the bill at the. center of this drama we've been talking. about only funds the government for a. couple of months through January and. February and then of course speaker. Johnson's right back in the same. position and if he does what he just did.

in the new year I have to think that. that is strike three for him and then. his speakership could very much be over. yes we are essentially going to have to. come back to the same place in January. and then again in February and I think. the reality is every time speaker. Johnson faces a new government funding. deadline it gets worse for him because. now he has these Rising expectations to. manage he has the freedom caucus getting.

increasingly upset with him and in an. attempt to assuage the freedom caucus he. said to them prior to passing this bill. look I'll never do this again I will not. put a short-term spending bill on the. floor again H but that's a really hard. promise to keep because either you keep. the promise you refuse to put a stop Gap. spending bill on the house floor and. that poten potentially puts you down the. road of shutting the government down if.

not fully at least partially shutting. the government down mhm but if he. decides to try to keep the government. open by advancing again a short-term. spending Bill and using Democrats to. pass that then he's just broken a. promise to the house Freedom caucus and. we've seen how they react when speakers. break their promises right now on the. other hand I do think that we need to. think about the possibility that maybe.

just maybe going forward the freedom. caucus Cuts him a little more of a break. than they cut Kevin McCarthy and I think. a big part of this was that a lot of the. antipathy the freedom caucus had toward. Kevin McCarthy it was substantive it was. about the policies that he was putting. forward but it was also really personal. that just doesn't exist in the same way. for Mike Johnson and so I think that. really injects an unknown variable into.

the calculus of what happens as Mike. Johnson goes down this road of trying to. keep the government open at the same. time he's trying to keep the freedom. caucus happy simply because sometimes. the calculation can change when you. believe that the guy who's in charge is. one of you so what you're evoking which. is very fascinating and very theoretical. is a world in which farri House. Republicans Toler at speaker Johnson.

repeatedly in a sense selling them out. on budgets and if that happens and they. don't oust him then that will mean that. Johnson has done something pretty. remarkable he's not just risen above his. own political instincts in his. transition from member to speaker but he. somehow convinced these other far-right. Republicans to in a sense do the same. well I think there's a school of thought. out there which is that some of the. demands or rather many of the demands of.

the freedom caucus are simply impossible. right now given the fact that there's a. democrat in the White House and the. Democrats control the Senate that maybe. it's going to take one of their own. becoming speaker for them to finally. realize we just can't have these things. happen but I also think there's another. variable at play here which is that we. just saw what happens when the freedom. caucus decides to ask the speaker that. was a terrible three weeks that we all. went through the house floor was.

paralyzed it was chaos and Republicans. were getting terrible headlines week. after week because of it I don't know. that anyone even those in the freedom. caucus are particularly eager to return. to that status again MH and so while in. the interim they've made clear that. they're going to try to make his life. harder that they're going to try to. punish him and all these small ways I do. think there's a possibility where at the. end of the day. if Johnson is able to keep the job it's.

not necessarily going to be because the. freedom caucus is so thrilled with how. he's doing it would be because they. essentially can't bear dethroning. another. [Music]. speaker well Katie thank you very much. we appreciate it thanks. [Music]. Michael.

we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. to Day on Sunday a senior Us official. said that Israel and Hamas were. extremely close to a deal that would. release a large group of hostages being. held in Gaza and would Institute a. dayslong pause in fighting what I can. say uh about this at this time is we.

think that we are closer than we have. been uh perhaps at any point uh since. these negotiations began weeks ago uh. that there are areas of difference uh. and disagreement that have been narrowed. uh if not uh closed out entirely but. that uh the Mantra that nothing is. agreed until everything is agreed uh. certainly applies here to such a. sensitive uh negotiation and there is no. but as the war raged on a un official. said that two schools run by the agency. in Northern Gaza that were serving as.

shelters had been badly damaged by air. strikes and video from one of the scenes. verified by the times showed many. bloodied and motionless bodies at one of. the schools Hamas officials blamed. Israel for the attack Israel meanwhile. said it was reviewing the. situation on Sunday John finer a US. National Security official was asked. about the schools by CNN uh what I can. say at this point and we're also in. touch with the Israelis to try to find.

out what they know about what happened. is that if uh harm was done uh to uh. innocent civilians uh Sheltering at a un. site that would be totally. unacceptable and in a dramatic and. surprise shakeup the board of open AI. the company behind the influential. artificial intelligence software chat. GPT ousted the firm's CEO Sam Alman who. has become the public fi of the. technology but that decision made on.

Friday led to outrage from alman's. supporters inside open Ai and from. outside investors including Microsoft as. a result open ai's board quickly began. talks to bring Alman back as CEO an. offer that Alman was still weighing as. of. Sunday today's episode was produced by. Olivia Nat Rob zipco and Mo zi it was. edited by Rachel quer contains original.

music by Maran Lozano and Diane Wong and. was engineered by Chris Wood our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben lanfer. of. [Music]. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael bobar see you tomorrow. [Music].