The New Hope, and New Worry, of Kamala Harris

from New York Times I'm Michael borro. this is the. [Music]. daily today vice president Kam La Harris. riding a wave of Democratic party. endorsements taking her place as the. front runner for the nomination Bill and. Hillary Clinton writing now is the time. to support kamla Harris and fight with. everything we've got to elect her as. Democrat after Democrat races to anoint.

kamla Harris as President Biden's. replacement there are now six Democratic. Governors who have endorsed kamla. Harris's presidential bid California. governor Gavin Newsome Pennsylvania. Governor former house Speaker Nancy. Pelosi is out with a full-throated. endorsement OFA Harris governor of Main. and now the latest is New York Governor. Kathy hok it's become clear that much. like Biden himself Harris will face no. real competition in her path to the.

Democratic nomination despite polling. that shows weaknesses in her. candidacy I spoke with my colleagues. Nate con and Reed Epstein about why that. is and what it may mean for her. campaign it's Tuesday July. [Music]. 23rd Nate I just want to begin by wel. welcoming you back from paternity leave.

as they say out of the frying pan and. Into the. Fire thanks Michael so as we speak with. you Nate the Democratic party is in the. process of putting almost all of its. political support and its Financial. Muscle behind KLA Harris as the nominee. to replace Joe Biden led by Biden. himself who endorsed her and the. collective message that this has been. sending is that Democrats especially the.

party brass believe Harris can win that. she has a better chance than Biden of. defeating Donald Trump and so we want to. fact check that with you is KLA Harris a. strong nominee in the race against. Donald Trump and is coronating her as. the party seems to be doing a wise. decision based on the. numbers well you laid out three facts. for me to check and I think that two of. them check out one thing that checks out.

is that KLA Harris enters the race as a. stronger candidate than Joe Biden was as. he exits his favorability ratings and. approval ratings were in the 30s he. trailed Donald Trump by a wide margin. National and state polls KL Harris and. the early polling looks a little. stronger than that the second thing that. checks out is that KL Harris can win she. starts out a little bit behind in the. polls but not by a lot and frankly. there's a whole campaign ahead of her. it's not clear that we should read a ton. into her initial standing she'll have.

every opportunity to improve and. persuade the public that she should be. her party's nominee the third thing you. said though is that KLA Harris is a. strong nominee and I'm not sure that is. as easy to defend okay we walk us. through why that's not a defensible. claim I think the simplest way to. demonstrate that is just to look at her. favorability ratings and that's a. jargony term for whether Americans say. they like KLA Harris or not and for. years pollsters have found that a. majority of Americans do not have a.

favorable view of KLA Harris other way. you can look at it is in terms of the. race against Trump K Harris may be. running a little bit better than Joe. Biden but K Harris has Trail Donald. Trump in almost every National and. Battleground State PLL this cycle I want. to make sure everyone absorbs that KLA. Harris has trailed the man that she is. now being set up to run against in this. general election in almost every. National and Battleground St poll that.

you have seen this year that is correct. wow and you know we should put the big. caveat out there which is that KL Harris. has not been a candidate for president. in any of those polls right people have. been asked to contemplate her as that. thing in those polls but she wasn't that. thing exactly we're asking voters to. consider her hypothetical and KL Harris. is a well-known candidate you know she's. run for president before she's the vice. president voters aren't coming to this. question with no information about her. at all so I think that it's reasonable.

to read something into the polling we've. seen to this point but on the other hand. is worth noting she's going to. reintroduce herself to the public and. maybe she'll come out of that stronger. she might also come out of it weaker. Republicans will attack her and voters. haven't heard that either right but the. point is that as she enters the race she. does so behind and without a tremendous. amount of Goodwill from the voters in. the middle of the elector who will. likely decide the election H in the most. recent time sien poll of Pennsylvania. which is probably the single most. important state in this election right. the swing of the Swing States in this. election.

only 42% of likely voters said they had. a favorable impression of Comm Harrison. 55% said unfavorable that makes her less. popular than Donald Trump who had a 46%. favorability rating in our poll and it. makes her a lot less popular than Joe. Biden was four years ago when he won the. state with a 51% favorability rating and. he only won narrowly of course and how. do we Nate account for that why Harris. is trailing Trump so. consistently and struggling in a make or.

break swing state like Pennsylvania how. do you understand that one way to think. about it is to think about how Democrats. have handled every election really since. 2016 beginning as soon as the 2018. midterm elections Democrats committed to. nominating relatively moderate. well-liked broadly acceptable candidates. who had the potential to appeal to. almost any voter who didn't like Donald. Trump or his you know Maga allies you. know in the 2018 midterms they nominated.

political newcomers who were military. veterans who were blank slates on the. issues and were moderat right we spoke. to a lot of them on the daily in that. period I'm thinking about Alyssa sakin. in Michigan Mikey Cheryl in Virginia. great example Mikey Cheryl Abby spanberg. or Jason Crow we can go on in almost. every District it felt like the. Democrats plucked someone who. Republicans just weren't going to have. much to say against and that made it a. pretty simple election in these. districts right M voters knew they. didn't like Trump and the Republicans. and rats put forward someone with a.

smile they didn't necessarily have. enthusiastic bases of. support but they were acceptable to an. elector that did not want to support. Republicans we saw the same thing in. 2020 with Joe Biden Joe Biden's a. perfect example of someone who wasn't. exactly loved by the Democratic base but. was he acceptable to a republican. moderate in the suburbs yeah he was a. relatively moderate Elder Statesman. right and they did it again in the. midterms in 2022 where they ran. well-liked incumbents Mark Kelly and.

Arizona Raphael waro Gretchen Whitmer. Josh Ziro these are broadly appealing. candidates who didn't come with a lot of. baggage and made it easy for voters who. didn't want to vote for Republicans who. didn't want to vote for Maga to vote. against Maga and to vote against. Republicans because there wasn't much. that Republicans could put forward to. argue against those Democrats right so. how much of Harris's problem based on. the data you cited a few moments ago can. be traced to her falling outside of that. that broadly acceptable moderate.

archetype that you just described that. has defined the post 2016 Democratic. Playbook and if so why doesn't she fit. in to that mold I don't think she fits. neatly into that mold and she brings a. bit of baggage to the election that. might make it challenging for her to put. herself back in to that bucket going all. the way back to the beginning of her. political career this is someone who. Rose in politics in the San Francisco. Bay Area one of the most liberal places. in the country and to win politically.

there she had to win among Democrats and. among liberal Democrats it's not. necessarily something that sets her up. to be popular among swing voters. Nationwide to become a US senator she. didn't necessarily even have to be the. Republican she did have to beat a. republican to become Attorney General in. 2010 and to win re-election 2014 but the. critical political challenge that KLA. Harris built her career around was. overcoming the opposition of other. Democrats in one of the bluest states in.

the country when she ran for president. in 2019 I think it revealed that that. experience brought with her a series of. political instincts that didn't. necessarily map neatly onto the demands. of national politics she ran to the left. on Medicare for all on whether she would. ban fracking right and on other issues. that made it challenging for her to look. like the kind of broadly acceptable. candidate and will give Republicans many. opportunities to attack her in the.

course of the general election in fact. they're already doing that Trump and his. allies are already calling KLA Harris a. leftwing figure and based on everything. you're saying she is vulnerable to that. line of attack and to that perception. yeah and you know in general her. campaigns have not always been. characterized by you know tremendous. political acument her 2019 campaign. really struggled and she was out of the. race long before I.

her campaign was widely viewed as. mismanaged she struggled to find an. authentic political message in that. campaign and she sort of seem to be. chasing the electorate chasing the. Democrats who seemed to be moving to the. left and so she followed them there but. she wasn't really especially authentic. at that either and now she may be in the. position where she needs to try and. Chase the electorate pack the other way. in the general election right I remember. an episode we did during this period. when comml Harris was running for the. Democratic nomination in 2019 that was. literally titled what does kamla Harris.

stand for and it came on the back of an. interview that our colleague Alex Burns. did with then Senator Harris in which he. talked to her about how hard it was to. put any kind of an ideological label on. her in that period exactly and her. tenure as vice president hasn't. necessarily been marked with distinction. either she was put in charge of handling. the Border by President Biden at the. beginning of his administration the. border is now one of the the biggest. political liabilities that the Democrats.

bring into this election and you know. collectively all that we've been talking. about the sense that it's not clear what. she stands for and that many of her. campaigns and her tenure as vice. president have been you know marked by. question marks about her you know. Effectiveness as a manager and as a. leader have added up to the electorate. not having a terribly favorable. impression of her at the outset of this. campaign of course what this doesn't. account for is KLA Harris's strengths. right her searing interrogation. of Brett Kavanaugh during his.

confirmation hearing which thrilled. liberals her ability to speak powerfully. about abortion rights and the reality. that with her as a potential nominee. Democrats can make this race about what. they always wanted it to be about which. is Donald Trump rather than an aging. nominee struggling to communicate from. the debate stage absolutely K Harris. will have a tremendous opportunity to. redefine herself and reintroduce herself. to the public she will have many people.

who really want to support her they will. be open-minded to her pitch in the weeks. ahead and I think a lot of Democrats are. going to learn just how down in the. dumps they've been over the last year. when they hear someone capable of making. a vigorous and energetic case against. Donald. Trump that said the reality is she. enters this race as a relatively. unpopular candidate who isn't the. broadly appealing acceptable Democrat.

that the party has turned to an election. after election to make contests a simple. up or down referendum on Donald Trump. and his allies and despite that Democrat. after Democrat after Democrat has come. out and endorse her candidacy making it. much harder maybe even impossible for. there to be any serious contest for the. Democratic. nomination well Nate thank you very much. we appreciate it thanks for having me. Michael. [Music].

after the break politics reporter Reed. Epstein on why nobody in the Democratic. party is challenging. [Music]. Harris we'll be right. back uh when do you want to start uh as. soon as humanly possible oh you there. yeah I'm here okay I am walking up the. stairs. with my headphones and I'm gonna at this.

what a what a a champ microphone in and. how about that now can you hear me yes. y great readed we just spoke with our. colleague Nick con about the strength or. the lack of strength of KLA Harris's. very likely Democratic nominee candidacy. and his conclusion is that she's not all. that strong at the moment yes she's. stronger than Biden was VAV Trump but. still Trails Trump in almost every poll. that was done over the the past year so. our question for you is pretty simple.

why do you think that so many Democrats. are lining up so quickly behind KLA. Harris within the past hour or so that. now includes former house Speaker Nancy. Pelosi and why is there no real. challenge to her given all that. information well there's no challenge to. her because Joe Biden made it. practically impossible to challenge her. there was a brief window of about 20. minutes after Biden withdrew from the.

presidential campaign and before he. endorsed Harris for someone else to run. against her 20 minutes I don't remember. exactly how long it was but it was after. I saw that he had dropped out and before. I got home from the pool that he had. endorsed Harris and when he did that he. didn't just. transfer political support to her he. also transferred the $96 million that. his campaign had in the bank and he.

transferred the 1300 people who work for. the campaign for him to her and so for. anyone to run a truncated campaign that. was going to take place in just a couple. of weeks targeting the 4600 delegates to. the Democratic Convention $96 million to. zero is a tough place to. start and so it did make it practically. impossible for any else to challenge KLA.

Harris but practically impossible. doesn't mean impossible so what's your. understanding of why the prominent. Democrats whose names have been kicking. around for a few weeks now since the. debate since it occurred to many people. that Biden might drop out why have none. of those names indicated any interest in. challenging haris well the prospect of. any of these people and you know we're. talking about field of white men mostly.

seeking to oust a black woman vice. president who is literally next in line. is politically untenable in today's. Democratic party a party that is. increasingly dependent on women and. people of color that the argument that. any of those people that we're talking. about would have needed to make really. would have been built around.

her competence and I don't think any of. them were prepared to make that argument. you're saying that even if these. potential Democratic Challengers had. doubts they would have been extremely. loathed to run against kamla Harris and. be seen as trying to derail a historic. nomination and in the process. potentially alienating these key. Democratic voting blocks that you just. mentioned that's correct these are. understandable political reasons for. potential Rivals to sit on their hands. stay out of his race they come on top of.

the argument that Biden just handed his. entire political apparatus to Harris but. there is another argument for. competition that I think is worth. exploring and it's the argument made as. recently as 24 hours ago by Congressman. Dean Phillips Democrat Who challenged. Biden in the primary who says basically. any competition even if it's weak. competition does Harris favors because.

it forces her to become a stronger more. battle tested candidate in a way that. she wouldn't be if she simply coronated. in a matter of days yeah I mean that. sounds right if you were writing it. script for a television show you would. want there to be. competition uh but here in real life. Democrats are petrified of Donald Trump. winning the election again and they are. eager to move forward. with a candidate who they can unite.

behind and make the case that Donald. Trump should not be elected and the. problem with Biden over the last three. and a half weeks most acutely but more. broadly since the beginning of his. campaign was that Democrats and the. Biden campaign could not convince voters. that Biden was up to the job of being. the president again for another four. years and if you couldn't get voters to. buy into that you couldn't get to the.

second point which was that Donald Trump. is a threat to XY and z and so that was. really the problem with Biden and they. think that Harris is going to be able to. prosecute the case of all the things. that they want voters to worry about. with Trump in a way that Biden could not. and the first order of business on that. is. abortion uh an two in which she is far.

more comfortable talking about than. Biden is and a much far more Adept. Messenger to make the case about Trump. and abortion rights than Biden ever has. been so that's an area where you're. looking for early signs that kamla. Harris the likely nominee is truly able. to distinguish herself and prove herself. perhaps a possessor of Greater political. skills than she is by reputation yeah. and I think her political skills are.

better than her reputation frankly she. ran a lousy campaign for president in. 2020 and then after Joe Biden was. elected she was handed a portfolio of. impossible issues like she was given the. Border she was given voting rights but. really since the dobs decision two years. ago overturning she's been a much more. capable public performer and my guess is. that people who For Whom the image of.

her was cemented early in her vice. presidency May wind up being. surprised at how she performs under the. bright lights of being the nominee. herself right we talked about this with. Nate it's extremely possible that K. Harris will be a successful Democratic. nominee she's already clearly energized. many Democrats who were totally Crest. fallen over what happened with Biden but. if it turns out that her short General. election campaign doesn't go well and if.

she doesn't beat Trump how much of the. blame will belong directly to Joe Biden. for putting the party and Harris in this. situation by discouraging anyone else. from running against him by snuffing out. any whiff of competition I mean he. changed the primary calendar to favor. him and him alone he ditched Iowa and. started the primaries in South Carolina. a state he knew he would win I mean how. much of this is going to be on him if.

Harris loses well you should be clear. that Biden made a choice to seek. re-election but it was the rest of the. party with the exception of a little. known congressman from Minnesota who. made the collective decision not to. challenge Joe Biden for re-election you. know I remember having conversations. with people before Biden formally. entered the race that there would have. been tens of Millions. available for a candidate in the mold of.

Bernie Sanders to run from Biden's left. there was talk of billionaire candidates. like JB pritzer getting in the race and. self-funding but I don't think it's. necessarily fair to blame Biden for the. lack of. competition it's the rest of the party. that covered their eyes and told. everyone that Biden would be fine that. bear more the responsibility on this.

front and that makes me wonder as a. concluding question here do you think. that the Democratic party needs to just. have a bigger conversation about. competition and about more people. entering into these races I mean there's. no absence of competition on the. Republican side despite the huge way in. which Donald Trump looms over that party. you had multiple Governors running. against him this year despite his. obvious strengths and nothing on the.

Democratic side and so is that a. conversation you expect the Democrats to. start having really no matter how this. turns out you know Michael this is less. a story about. competition as it is a story about the. elites of the party not listening to. their own. voters there was ample evidence over. years that large percentages of. Democrats did not want Joe Biden to run. for a second term but when he did. they all stepped aside and gave him a.

Glide path to the nomination anyway and. the result that they got was a deeply. flawed nominee who couldn't make it to. the finish line and now it's so late in. the game that there's no time to have a. real competition to replace. him re thank you very much thank you. Michael on Monday night a majority of. democratic delegates endorsed vice.

president Harris as Biden's replacement. and she moved quickly to assert herself. as the de facto Democratic. nominee Harris asked former Attorney. General Eric Holder to oversee her. choice of a running mate and persuaded. the current leadership of Biden's. campaign to remain in place and run her. campaign against Trump and in this. campaign I will. proudly I will proudly put my record.

against. his finally in her first campaign speech. Harris took Trump on directly invoking. her history as a lawyer and a prosecutor. in those roles I took on perpetrators of. all kinds Predators who Abused. women frauders who ripped off. consumers cheaters who broke broke the. rules for their own.

gain so hear me when I. say I know Donald Trump's. [Applause]. [Music]. type we'll be right. back here's what else you need to. another day. the secret Services solemn mission is to.

protect our nation's leaders on July. 13th we failed during a heated. Congressional hearing on Monday secret. service director Kimberly cheel faced. angry questions about her agency's plan. to protect Donald Trump on the day when. he was shot but she repeatedly declined. to answer basic inquiries about his. security do you really believe that the. majority of this country has confidence. in you right now as a result lawmakers.

from both parties told cheel that she. had lost their confidence well look I. believe director K that you should. resign I think there are colleagues on. both sides of the aisle who believe that. and I hope you'll consider. it today's episode was produced by Eric. krupky Diana win CLA tennis gter Lindsay. Garrison and mu Z it was edited by. Patricia willins and Paige cowt contains.

original music by Maran Lozano and Diane. Wong and was engineered by Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and. Ben lurk of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael babo see you tomorrow. [Music].