The Many Missed Warnings Before Maine’s Mass Shooting

from New York Times I'm Michael borro. this is a. [Music]. daily today the mass shooting that. occurred in me last week killing 18. people was the country's deadliest of. the. year it may also have been one of the. most. avoidable my colleague Nicholas Bogel. burough on why so many warnings about.

the suspected gunman from so many people. failed to stop. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. it it's Thursday November. [Music]. 2nd Nick in the days since this awful. mass shooting in Maine you have been.

trying to reconstruct the warning signs. that something was very wrong with the. suspected shooter so tell us about what. you have been finding yeah so in the. days after this attack we've received a. bunch of documents that show a series of. troubling interactions with the suspect. whose name is Robert card he's a. 40-year-old Army reservist and the. documents show that These Warnings. concerned his deteriorating mental. health Rising paranoia and anger and.

they came from pretty much every part of. his life but as we now know none of. those warnings prevented this mass. shooting well Nick where should we start. in the story of those warnings you. mentioned that they go back many months. I mean the first time when the local. police are really made aware that this. guy is a concern is about 5 months ago. in May when his ex-wife and teenage son. go to a school resource ource officer.

and the school resource officer calls. down a sheriff's deputy to speak with. the family and in that interview the. teenage son and the ex-wife say that he. has started to hear voices he started to. be increasingly paranoid and angry they. also note he has collected about 10 to. 15 guns that he kept at a relative's. house and brought them back to his so. they're going to the police and saying.

that he has access to a large number of. firearms I mean they were very worried. about him and I think what they also. were struggling with is not. understanding where to get him help and. what kind of intervention might lead him. to be more aggressive and more isolated. so what's the response from the local. police after the family has this. conversation with them the deputy has. this conversation with the ex-wife and. the teenage son and seems to talk to. them at length and learn a lot about C's.

behavior and his career in the Army. Reserves he was in the Army Reserves for. 20 plus years at that point and the. deputy and the ex-wife basically decide. that the best place to get help is. probably through the Army Reserve it's. people who have known him for a long. time it's people he interacts with. regularly and maybe they have a more. formal system of getting someone like. this help so the deputy goes back and. makes a call to the Army Reserve Base.

and learns from them and this is in May. that they've been aware of his declining. mental health at the Army Reserve Base. and that they already know that. something is wrong so at this point they. have two really important data points. they have family members deeply. concerned that this man is not well and. has guns and they now know that his. place of work the Army Reserves is also. very concerned about him so what do the.

police do with all this information they. decide I think largely to leave it in. the Army reserve's hands h so the police. come up with a kind of. informal solution to this problem which. is work with the Army Reserves I think. that's right okay so what happens next. so the next thing we know that happens. is in. July card travels with his reserve unit. to West Point New York for an annual.

training exercise and there's a very. concerning incident that takes. place they're all hanging out together. at a motel and he starts accusing them. of calling him a. pedophile this is one of his paranoid. delusions that comes up repeatedly he. shoves one at one. point and everyone is just freaked. out and eventually they call for a.

supervisor who comes down and tries to. speak with card in his motel room card. tries to slam the door on him so the. supervisor decides that card needs. medical. attention he takes him to a hospital and. he later writes about concerning. interaction during that time where card. was just staring at him for 4 hours or. through him without. blinking and at the hospital they. ultimately decide that he needs further.

treatment and that he should be moved to. a psychiatric center which he is H and. what do we know about the kind of. treatment he receives there we know next. to nothing except the amount of time he. spent there which was 14 days and after. 2 weeks he left and that his supervisor. in the reserve say that they're not sure. he ever sought treatment again okay so. this is clearly a very delicate moment. in the story he's very.

unwell everyone's aware of it he's just. come out of a hospital what happens to. him the next thing we know is that in. the days after he was released from this. Psychiatric Center he tries to pick up a. silencer for a gun that he had bought. interestingly on that form to pick that. up it asks if he has had a mental health. treatment or been committed for mental. health treatment and he actually answers. yes.

he's up front and says he has and so the. gun shop owner says I can't give this to. you and he's from what we heard very. nice about that and says okay no problem. I'll figure that out and never comes. back after that things just go. downhill in midt he is riding in a car. with a longtime friend and fellow. reservist and starts talking in very. concerning ways he's saying that he's.

upset with people calling him a. pedophile but he also starts talking. about carrying out a mass shooting wow. he starts talking about shooting up. places including his Army Reserve Base. and other. establishments and at one point his. friend who's in the car says something. like you need to stop talking like that. or you're going to get in trouble MH and. card actually punches him in the. face so his friend gets out of the car.

makes his way home and then contacts. their superiors in the reserve and says. he's worried about his. friend and what did the reserves do in. response to that so this initiates. basically I think the most intense. intervention that we've seen at this. point the reserves reach out to the. Sheriff's Office in sagah Hawk County. where card lived H so the same sheriff's. office right Nick that the son and.

ex-wife have been talking that's right. so this Sheriff's Office knew about. concerns back in May and now they're. hearing from the Army Reserve in. September that things have escalated so. the reserve says we'd like you guys to. go check on this guy basically perform a. welfare check so this Sheriff Sergeant. goes back to card's address and there. are indications that he might be home so. the sheriff Sergeant calls for backup. they try to make contact with card they. go up to his door they think they might.

hear him moving around inside but he. won't come to the door and so at that. point they decide because they're in a. sort of as they describe it. disadvantageous position fearing that. he's armed and unwell they decide to. leave him alone at that. [Music]. point huh that's kind of a. confounding place for police to land.

because at this point this Sheriff's. Office knows very well that multiple. people on multiple occasions have. determined that this man is a threat. sounds like the police officers outside. the house themselves think he's a threat. so so they just leave you're saying even. though all signs point to someone whose. mental state has gotten worse and worse. and worse and who's now explicitly. making threats of shooting people. right they do leave the home and the.

sheriff Sergeant goes back and starts to. reach back out to card's family and his. reserve base I think at this point he's. trying to learn a little bit more about. what might be going on so the sheriff. Sergeant reaches out to an Army Reserve. Captain who knows card and the captain. says he thinks that trying to force a. contact is a bad idea he actually. recommends to the Sheriff's Office that. they just leave him alone and he said. says it's maybe just best to let card.

have time to himself for a bit wow at. that point the sheriff Sergeant calls. card's brother and the brother says that. he will try to take card's guns away he. says that they have a way to secure the. weapons and he's going to work with. their dad to try to make sure that card. doesn't have any access to his guns and. that's where the Sheriff's Office leaves. [Music]. it and you know by mid-september they've.

never made contact with card. himself the Sheriff's Office never met. with him and they never. [Music]. do and then in October he buys more guns. legally and then within days he goes to. a bar and a bowling alley in Leon Maine.

and opens. fire and he kills 18 people and wounds. 13. [Music]. more we'll be right. back.

[Music]. Nick the layers of warnings that you. have discovered in your reporting and. outlined in the first half of our. conversation are breathtaking and yet. none of that stopped this man from from. either buying guns or being forced to.

give up the guns that he had and I'm. emphasizing that because even within the. very emotional gun control debate that's. always raging in this country lawmakers. from both parties have generally agreed. that there's a need for ways to take. guns from people who pose a threat. mostly because of their mental. health does Maine have such a law and. how did it operate or fail to operate in.

this case yeah so Maine is an. interesting State politically it's. government is controlled by democrats it. has a Democratic governor but on the. issue of guns it's more complicated. there's a large hunting culture here and. in part for that reason the state has a. history of resisting certain gun control. laws but Maine does have a law that went. into effect in 2020 that law is called a. yellow flag law. and is basically a compromise and so the.

yellow flag law in Maine is different. than red flag laws in other states which. allow families to go straight to a court. and ask them to take away someone's guns. because they're worried about them in. Maine the yellow flag law requires that. the police get the person evaluated by a. medical practitioner and then they take. that evaluation and go to a. and then hope that a judge will sign off.

on them being able to take their weapons. away it adds that extra step of needing. to go to a medical practitioner and and. have an evaluation done and it also. keeps families from being able to. directly ask a court to take away. someone's guns got it so just to clarify. yellow flag law is a little bit more. cumbersome sounds like it's also more. time consuming involves more steps and. more parties which is why perhaps you. described it as a compromise it's a.

little bit more of a watered down. version of a red flag law which makes it. a bit easier to take away someone's guns. that's right okay so did anyone try to. use Main's yellow flag law in the case. of this man no there's no indication. that anyone tried to use that law the. police could have decided that it was. worth taking card to a medical. practitioner trying to get him evaluated. and then go to a judge to force him to. give up his guns but no one took that.

step I'm really curious what we know. about why the police department didn't. try to use the yellow flag law because. it clearly exists to solve a situation. just like this and would not force the. police to rely on the informal systems. that we've been talking about of the. family the Army Reserve this law is. there so that police can go to a judge. and say we've tried this we've tried. that didn't work now we need to use the.

most formal and forceful intervention. possible why didn't they do it we really. don't know the sheriff in sagot county. has defended the Department's actions. and said that they tried to get the. family involved to take away the guns. but he really hasn't explained why they. didn't use the yellow flag law and what. we found out is that this department has. never used the yellow flag law since it. was passed in the state it's been used a. total of 81 times but never by this. Sheriff's Office well that makes me.

wonder what elected officials in Maine. have said about exactly how this played. out and what that tells us about whether. or not Main's yellow flag law is working. in the wake of this elected officials. have themselves wondered why the yellow. flag law wasn't used in fact Maine's. senior senator Susan Collins who's a. republican said at a news conference. that she thought that the yellow flag. law should have been used in this let me. finish pleas um it certainly seems that.

on the basis of the facts that we have. that the yellow flag L should have been. triggered if in fact um the suspect was. hospitalized for two weeks for mental. illness and Collins is essentially. saying there's a good law in the books. that applies to situations exactly like. this and he should have been separated. from his weapons I'm sure and said that. she doesn't understand why it wasn't. used in this case well given that the.

yellow flag law didn't seem to work are. any of the officials in Maine talking. about the need for the state's gun laws. to change it all and I'm thinking back. Nick to something you said earlier in. our conversation about the moment that. this shooter tried to buy a silencer. right you recounted that he had to. volunteer that he had been hospitalized. but of course a determined potential. Mass shooter might not do that might not. self. report and of course he was still able.

to buy more guns after authorities were. made aware of his mental health and. after he was hospitalized I mean given. that are leaders in Maine asking tough. questions about whether a yellow flag. law is enough if things need to change. they are State lawmakers are talking. about trying to do something in the wake. of this attack and the governor has said. that she wants to take some action that.

she wanted to you know gather diverse. voices from different viewpoints in a. room and talk about what could be done. but beyond that she has really not. committed to any kind of gun control. legislation in the wake of this attack. right and of course as we all know State. officials local officials only have so. much power given that our gun laws are. so grounded in federal law that's right. and you did have some movement from a.

member of the federal delegation from. Maine representative Jared golden who's. a Democrat from Maine but has long been. a supporter of gun rights and opposed to. bans on assault weapons I have opposed. efforts to ban deadly weapons of war. like the assault rifle we used to carry. out this crime the time has now come for. me to take responsibility for this. failure which is why I now call on the. United States Congress to ban assault. rifles like the one used by the. perpetrator of this Mass killing in my.

hometown of Ls and M he came out at a. press conference very emotional and said. that he was changing his mind and. actually would support Banning assault. weapons for the good of my community I. will work with any colleague to get this. done in the time that I have left in. Congress he asked main voters for. forgiveness and said that he had been. part of the problem it was a really. stunning reversal That You Don't See in. politics too much but of course golden.

is a democrat in the house which is. controlled by Republicans and. republicans in Congress have expressed. virtually zero interest in meaningfully. restricting access to guns that's right. I mean Susan Collins was actually. standing next to Jared golden when he. made this emotional and surprising. reversal on assault weapons and she was. asked if she would do the same well. first of all let me say that. I think it is more.

important that we B very high capacity. man STS I think that would have more. input and more U Effectiveness but she. declined to to go that far so there in a. nutshell are the limits of congress's. willingness to act on guns and Nick I. want to end in a way where we began. which is with the reality that so many.

people in the story of this shooter did. the quote unquote right thing they spoke. up they tried to do something they. called the. police they did something that when you. really think about it is exceptionally. difficult they told someone in law. enforcement that a person they care. about is a threat knowing that there. would be repercussions and yet. none of it worked which really does.

raise the question of whether whether. it's a yellow flag law or even a red. flag law these lonely laws we have on. the books are really up to the task. right you had a huge number of people in. this situation doing one of the hardest. things which is basically calling the. authorities on a loved one being willing. to get someone in trouble his ex-wife. his teenage son. his brother his sister his father and.

many people in the Army Reserve with him. including one of his longtime friends. all these people wanted him to get help. and took that first step to doing so. knowing that the repercussions for him. might not be good but that they hoped it. would get him the help that he needed. right but even after that difficult step. you still have to rely on the people who. are in charge of enforcing these laws or. doing what they can to do it. right and in this case the law is on the.

books and the police never tried to use. it so what this tragedy has made clear. is that these laws even if they're on. the books and available are only as good. as a police department that's willing to. use. [Music]. them well Nick thank you very much we. appre appreciate it thank. [Music].

you we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to. another day after long negotiations. between multiple governments Egypt.

allowed hundreds of people including. several Americans to leave Gaza on. Wednesday it was the first wave of what. are expected to be thousands of foreign. Nationals Aid workers and injured. Palestinians to flee Gaza into Egypt all. of them entered Egypt at the Rafa. Crossing so far the only Escape Route. for people trapped in Gaza meanwhile. Israel's military said it had broken. through hamas's front lines in Northern.

Gaza a milestone in its ground operation. which is aimed at destroying. [Music]. Hamas today's episode was produced by. Eric krupky Olivia Nat summer tamod and. relle Banja it was edited by Liz o Balin. fact checked by summer tamod and Susan. Lee contains original music by Dan. Powell Rowan nisto Pat mccusker and.

Maran Lozano and was engineered by Chris. Wood our theme music is by Jim brunberg. and Ben lansberg of wonderly special. thanks to chelia Rose Marcus Amelia. nberg and Shila. [Music]. Dewan.

that's it for the daily I'm Michael. Boro see you. [Music]. tomorrow.