The Fight Over the Next Pandemic

from The New York Times I'm Michael. abaro this is the. [Music]. daily today at the height of the covid. pandemic nearly 2 countries started. negotiating a plan to ensure they did. better when the next pandemic inevitably. arrives their deadline for that plan was. last week.

my colleague Aura mavil explains why so. far those negotiations have. [Music]. failed it's Thursday June. [Music]. 6th so appr something that was supposed. to happen and happen right now that I. think most of didn't even know was ever.

in the works hasn't happened and that's. a global plan for the next pandemic so. tell us this entire story think back to. 2021 the very worst days of Co when we. had thousands of people dying in the US. and in the rest of the world there was. just so much confusion about whether to. wear masks or not whether to close. schools and it was very difficult to. think what any country should do.

right and so in the middle of that chaos. and confusion the eagle has landed. carrying the hopes of a country the. first shipment of Corona virus vaccines. reach Australian Skies we did get the. vaccines you're watching right now. history being made one of the first. people in the entire country right here. to get dose number two of the fizer. vaccine and all of a sudden there was. this hope but the thing is that those. vaccines were really mostly available in. the Richer count R parts of Asia and.

Latin America have recorded a spike in. Co fatalities amid medical supply and. vaccine shortages few people in Africa. have been vaccinated some countries. don't have any vaccines at all so we in. the United States and a lot of countries. in the European Union and some of the. other high and middle- inome countries. had the vaccines rich countries have. enough doses to vaccinate everyone. nearly three times over whilst poor. countries don't have enough to even. reach health workers and people at risk.

but elsewhere in the world there were no. vaccines. really it became obvious to some low and. middle- inome countries that they were. not going to do very well in this. pandemic there were all these Advanced. purchase orders from the Richer. countries and they were having some very. tough negotiations with Pharma companies. that were you know charging them more. than they were charging the rich. countries and by the end of that. horrible horrible year more than 90% of.

people in the Richer countries had had. two doses of vaccine but 2% of people in. low-income countries had had any. vaccines so that really just striking. inequity made people realize this was. just a mess we did not know how to deal. with a. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. pandemic the time to act is now so in.

December. 2021 by the end of this year of inequity. we must not allow the memories of this. crisis to fade and go back to business. as usual the World Health Organization. brought together all the countries the. impacts on our societies economies and. health especially for the poor and the. most vulnerable are too significant and. launch this process to come up with a. Playbook to really think about how all.

the countries of the world need to. prevent and respond to the next pandemic. and do it in a way that would protect. everybody rich and poor across the world. and the who decided that this discussion. could not be just an informal. conversation between Health ministers. that this needed to be an international. treaty a legally binding treaty so that. every country has to take this very. seriously and everybody agrees on how to.

do this next time H so at the very. height of CO's awfulness these countries. in the who are saying we know you all. are very very busy fighting this. pandemic it is taking up all your time. and energy but we need you to now start. to think about how badly this is going. and not just fight the current pandemic. but start planning on a better way to. fight the next one that's kind of a big. ask it is a big ask but what is the. alternative that we come to the next. pandemic and have a repeat of all of the.

chaos and confusion we saw during covid. so I think it was a an acknowledgement. that we needed it we needed to come up. with a plan and it became obvious that. part of that plan needed to be a way to. repair the mistrust that had formed. between low income countries and high. inome countries and that without. repairing that we just did not really. stand a good chance of fighting the next. pandemic right and of course the thing. about a global pandemic is that any weak. link any country that's not doing its. part or getting what it needs becomes a.

problem for every other country that's. the nature of a pandemic we need we. talked about this with you we talked. about this with our colleagues. throughout the pandemic a system where. there's a strong program and plan in. every country so that the virus can be. Stamped Out exactly I mean in the United. States more people died because of. variants than they did because of the. original virus and a lot of those. variants started in countries that did. not have access to vaccines Okay so so. what do these talks start to actually.

look like and just how many countries. end up being involved in them so all of. the countries that are member states of. the World Health Organization were. involved in this it's 194 countries wow. and they all sent delegates to meet to. draft something and then to discuss. every aspect of it and try to come to a. consensus and the goal was to get that. to a point where all the countries were. ready to sign off on it by May 2024.

they had meetings over a period of 2 and. a half years to talk through this some. sections they all agreed on pretty. easily you know you can imagine like the. general goals like yes we should have a. good plan to fight a pandemic or yes we. should have good research on vaccines. and drugs things like that the general. sort of philosophical goals everybody. agrees on right principles are always. the easiest thing to negotiate easiest. thing to negotiate but then you start. getting into how this happens right and.

it's actually kind of interesting in the. draft if you look at the drafts they. have areas that are green which means. everybody sort of agreed and yellow. which means they're starting to come to. an agreement there's sort of General. consensus and then white which means. it's like really no agreement they're. just not even on the same page and when. you look at like what's green across all. of these drafts the philosophical goals. Green from the start no problem the. yellow started to come slowly these. these areas of consensus things like for. for example safety measures in the labs.

that work with dangerous viruses and. that's not just because one of the. theories about covid is that the virus. leaked from a lab we know from long. before covid that lab safety is very. important for making sure that those. dangerous viruses don't get out into the. world there's also agreement around how. countries should do surveillance to see. what outbreaks might be emerging and. some of that stuff is tricky like why. why why is it tricky I mean isn't there. a pretty standard Playbook for trying to.

detect a virus and what to do once you. detect it sure but there are some things. that are big sticking points like money. not all countries have the resources to. do the kind of surveillance that they. need to do and so who funds that and. then you know some countries have vested. interests like Argentina wouldn't want. any rules that forbid sort of export of. certain kinds of meat products because. that's a big part of their economy there. are countries where live animal markets. are a thing and not just in China which. we're all familiar with is another.

origin theory for covid lots of other. countries rely on these markets and they. don't want to have very strict rules. about which animals can be held together. and how densely packed they can or can't. be so when you start to get into the. details there it is actually difficult. to reach consensus on some of these. things but they have made a lot of. progress and they have come to yellow. and green on some important things like. that every country should have you know. a healthcare work Force trained to.

respond to a pandemic that they should. make best efforts to have local. production of things like vaccines and. drugs and that they should provide all. of these resources to their own citizens. things like that those are all you know. under agreement they're all green now so. what exactly is holding these. negotiations back what ends up being the. biggest remaining conflict it won't. surprise you to hear Michael that the. biggest conflict is exactly what all of.

this began with which is the lack of. access that low-income countries have to. things like. [Music]. vaccines there have been interesting. proposals in the drafts and one in. particular that would solve at least. some of this issue but it's been very. difficult to convince rich countries. middle- inome countries and low-income. countries that that proposal would be of. great benefit to everybody involved. [Music].

we'll be right. back so AA tell us about this particular. proposal that could do a lot of work to. solve the inequities at the center of. these negotiations and why that proposal. has created so much conflict the heart. of the section that has really created.

the most conflict is whether low-income. countries get access to vaccines in a. timely manner and at a cost that is. Affordable to them and all the. low-income countries you know recognize. that they don't have a lot of bargaining. power they were treated pretty poorly by. Pharma companies during this past. pandemic and so they've been thinking. about setting things up so that that. does not happen again that the next time. around they are not left behind right. but like you said they don't have a lot. of power to bargain they don't but you.

know there have been times when poor. countries have come up with a way to. make everybody else realize that they're. essential to this whole process so let. me give you an example of this that. really I think illustrates how much. everybody else needs the low income. Nations during an outbreak so in. 2006 Indonesia was battling a bird flu. outbreak and they had been very. dutifully sending samples of the virus. that they had in their country to the.

World Health Organization labs to. analyze and you know that information. helps Pharma companies develop things. like vaccines or tests right or tests. and in this particular case the. Indonesian Health Ministry approached. the World Health Organization to say. look we've given you these samples we. have people dying in our country and we. need access to vaccines and drugs and. the who told them sorry we don't. directly distribute any of that you have. to talk to the manufacturers H and this.

is where that leverage becomes really. important right because Indonesia did. not actually have leverage with these. Pharma companies and so the vaccine. manufacturer told them that they would. sell them vaccines but at commercial. prices that that country cannot afford. and then a drug manufacturer told them. that they did not have enough drugs to. give Indonesia because richer countries. had placed enough purchase orders that. there was a delay of 2 years. so Indonesia was so angry about all of.

this that they declined to share any. more samples with the. who so Indonesia basically says we will. never again make the mistake of promptly. sharing information about a potentially. deadly pathogen because we learned that. we get nothing in return right and that. understanding that realization also has. driven a lot of the conversation in the. drafting of this treaty where low-income.

countries have essentially said we. recognize that you need us to share. these samples but we are not going to do. that unless you can promise to us that. we will get some access to vaccines and. drugs that you make based on the samples. we give you so we want something in. return for the information we provide to. you what is a specific proposal that. comes from this realization yeah this. proposal has created a lot of. controversy so there are versions of it.

but the most recent one says essentially. that if the low-income countries share. their samples with the. wh that Pharma companies have to give. the wh 10% of the vaccines they make as. a. donation and then 10% either at a. nonprofit cost or just a deeply. discounted rate also to the wh and then. the who would distribute that 20 % of. vaccines that they get from the Pharma.

companies to the countries that are in. most need H so this proposal which feels. very Innovative is the ultimate. manifestation of poor countries power in. this Dynamic if they don't get vaccines. then the big countries will never get. the information about a virus that's. necessary for there to have ever been a. vaccine it's really interesting it isn't. and this is the biggest chip that. low-income countries have so they are. not willing to budge on this. but guess who doesn't like this.

pharmaceutical companies and the. countries that really support the. interests of the pharmaceutical. companies and that includes the United. States Germany Switzerland some of the. big players places where these companies. are a big presence and a very powerful. Lobby What specifically have these. pharmaceutical companies and the. countries like the US that have so many. of them said about this proposal so the. countries they are willing to give in. principle and say that the farmers. pharmaceutical companies will.

voluntarily give some of the vaccines to. the who but they don't want it mandated. whereas the low-income countries they. want it to be really codified so that. there is no loophole and the. conversations have gone round and round. on that one word voluntary aova is it. safe to assume that a country like the. US which of course has a booming and. very profitable pharmaceutical industry. won't sign on to these proposals.

unless that word voluntary is in the. deal that they cannot abide by one where. it's mandatory that these big. pharmaceutical companies have to give up. so much of their vaccine to poor. countries they are not going to say that. in so many words but yes and the United. States actually has come up with some. very nice plans to help some of these. low-income country set up infrastructure. and be prepared for pandemics but I. think Crossing pharmaceutical companies. is not a place they will go so is that.

really the only big obstacle left in. these negotiations or is there anything. else oh there's lots. more there has been so much. misinformation and disinformation around. this whole issue just like there has. been about every aspect of covid and a. lot of it centers around the hesitation. and the opposition that many populist. leaders have expressed in the US for. example example there are Republican.

Senators and governors who have come out. against the treaty and they say that. this is a power grab by The Who that it. is going to allow the director general. of the who to tell the us what to do. whether to have mask mandates whether to. have vaccine mandates none of which is. true by the way and in a bit to counter. some of that misinformation there is. actually an explicit line in the treaty. saying that the treaty respects the.

sovereignty of all the individual. Nations they've tried to address that. head-on but it hasn't really made all of. that chatter go away how much does this. practically matter the fact that a. handful or perhaps more than a handful. of Republicans in the US are skeptical. of this and think ideologically speaking. that it oversteps the bounds of what a. treaty should do I mean ultimately do. they have any power over whether the US. signs this treaty they do because.

delegates can agree to this treaty at. the who but everybody has to bring it. back to their home countries and in the. US the treaty then has to be approved. for ratification by the Senate you have. to have a two-thirds majority in the. Senate say yes we agree to this treaty. so if you have a number of Republican. Senators who are absolutely opposed to. it it may not pass so it very much feels. like so many of the issues that made. everyone think that this treaty was.

necessary inequities between rich. countries and poor countries and. misinformation and ideological. skepticism of how to handle a pandemic. to begin with that really defined covid. for us that those forces are now making. it very hard for this treaty to actually. be reached they never really went away. they never went away it felt like there. was about 5 Seconds when everyone was. United in thinking that we need needed. something different and there was a lot.

of Goodwill but a lot of that has. evaporated and we're getting very. quickly to a point where people have. forgotten what covid looked like and. felt like and what the devastation was. like and have gone back to Old positions. on you know we don't want to share we. don't want to give anything away. everything for us first all of the. thinking that led to the problems during. covid so what realistically happens now. and do you based on your reporting think. that this treaty has any real chance of.

being completed and passed by the 194. countries involved in it well the draft. was supposed to be finalized at the. meeting last week of the World Health. assembly and that didn't happen but they. did set a deadline to say that the. negotiations will continue and then. they'll hope to have something done by. next year's meeting but there's just so. much in flux right now you know there. are elections all over the world who. knows what Donald Trump will do if he. gets elected we know that he would Drew. from the who the last time around and he.

has even said that he may shut down the. pandemic preparedness office in the. white house so he's not particularly. invested in this whole topic this whole. [Music]. issue and in the meantime we already. have so many threats that are really. picking up you know for Global Health. experts and for reporters like myself. who watch all this stuff it's a bit. alarming that we now have bird flu right. here in the United States and the next.

pandemic pretty much every expert I talk. to agrees it's not a question of if but. [Music]. when and if we had had this treaty ready. if we can ever have this treaty ready we. would be so much better prepared for. something like that to happen but it. just doesn't seem all that likely right. [Music]. now well Pora. thank you very much we appreciate it.

thank. [Music]. you we'll be right. back here's what else you need to know. today in a last minute about face New. York Governor Kathy Hogle said she would. block a long awaited tolling plan known. as congestion pricing that was set to. begin at the end of the month the.

program the first of its kind in the US. would have charged as much as $15 for. cars entering the busiest parts of. Manhattan the goal was to alleviate. traffic reduce pollution and raise money. for the city's aging subway system but. hok argued that the tolls threatened the. city's fragile economic recovery after. the. pandemic and on Thursday for former. romantic partners of Hunter Biden the.

president's son testified in a Delaware. courtroom about the depth of his drug. addiction and the toll that it took on. them the testimony including how much. Hunter Biden spent on drugs and the type. of drugs he used was designed to. establish that he was a chronic drug. abuser who lied when he claimed to be. sober on an application for a handgun in. 2018. today's episode was produced by Alex.

Stern Carlos PRI and Stella tan with. help from will Reed and Ricky nety it. was edited by Lexi Di and Devin Taylor. contains original music by Maran Lozano. Pat mccusker and Diane Wong and was. engineered by Chris Wood our theme music. is by Jim brunberg and Ben lfer of. [Music]. wonderly that's that's it for the daily.

I'm Michael Boro see you tomorrow. [Music].