The Evolving Danger of the New Bird Flu

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily the outbreak of bird flu that is. tearing through the nation's poultry. Farms is the worst in US. history but scientists say it's now. starting to spread into places and. species it's never been before. [Music].

today my colleague Emily anthus. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. explains it's Monday April. [Music]. 22nd Emily welcome back to the show. thanks for having me happy to be here so.

Emily we've been talking here on the. daily about prices of things and how. they've gotten so high mostly in the. context of inflation episodes and one of. the items that keeps coming up is eggs. egg prices were through the roof last. year and we learned that this was. actually not just inflation that. something else was going on and it was. related to this Aven flu has been. surging in the United States States.

you've been covering this tell us what's. happening yeah so I have been covering. this virus for the last few years and. the bird flu is absolutely tearing. through poultry flocks and that is. affecting egg prices that's a concern. for everyone for me and for my family. but when it comes to scientists egg. prices are pretty low on their list of. concerns because they see this bird flu. virus behaving differently than previous. versions have and they're getting.

nervous in particular about the fact. that this virus is reaching places and. species where it's never been before. okay so bird flu though isn't new I mean. I remember hearing about cases in Asia. in the 90s remind us how it began bird. flu refers to a bunch of different. viruses that are adapted to spread best. in Birds Wild Water birds in particular. are known for carrying these viruses and. flu viruses are sort of famous for also. being shape shifters so they're.

constantly swapping genes around and. evolving into new strains and as you. mentioned back in the 9s a new version. of bird flu a virus known as. h5n1 emerged in Asia and it has been. spreading on and off around the world. since then causing periodic outbreaks. and how are these outbreaks caused so. wild birds are the reservoir for the. virus which means they carry it in their. bodies with them around the world as. they fly and travel and and migrate and.

most of the time these wild birds like. ducks and geese don't even get very sick. from this virus but they shed. it so as they're traveling over a. poultry farm maybe if they happen to go. to the bathroom in a pond that the. chickens on the farm are using or eat. some of the feed that chickens on the. farm are eating they can leave the virus. [Music]. behind and the virus can get into to.

chickens in some cases it causes mild. illness it's what's known as low. pathogenic Aven influenza but sometimes. the virus mutates and evolves and it can. become extremely contagious and. extremely fatal in. [Music]. poultry okay so the virus comes through. wild birds but gets into Farms like this. as you're describing how have Farms. traditionally handled outbreaks when. they do happen.

well because this threat isn't new there. is a pretty wellestablished playbook for. containing outbreaks it's sometimes. known as stamping out and brutally what. it means is killing the birds so the. virus is so deadly in this highly. pathogenic form that it's sort of. destined to kill all of the birds on a. farm anyway once it gets in so the. response has traditionally been to. proactively depopulate or cull all the. birds so it doesn't doesn't have a.

chance to spread so that's pretty costly. for Farmers it is although the US has a. program where it will reimburse Farmers. for their losses and the way these. reimbursements work is they will. reimburse Farmers Only for the birds. that are proactively called and not for. those who die naturally from the virus. and the thinking behind that is it's a. way to incentivize Farmers to report. outbreaks early so okay lots of chickens. are killed in a way to manage these out. breaks so we know how to deal with them.

but what about now tell me about this. new strain so this new version of the. virus it emerged in. 2020 after the deadly outbreak of the. novel Corona virus authorities have now. confirmed an outbreak of the h5n1 strain. of influenza a kind of bird flu and. pretty quickly it became clear that a. couple things set it apart a bald eagle. found dead at carin's Cove has tested. positive for the highly contagious bird. FL this virus for whatever reason seemed.

very good at infecting all sorts of wild. birds that we don't normally associate. with bird. flu he was kind of stepping and then. falling over and using its wing to ride. itself things like eagles and condors. and Pelicans we just lost a parliament. of owls in Minneapolis Yeah couple. high-profile nests and also in the past. wild birds have not traditionally gotten.

very sick from this virus and this. version of the virus not only spread. widely through the wild bird population. but it proved to be devastating they're. washing up along the east coast of the. country from Scotland down to suffk we. were hearing about Mass die offs of. seabirds in Europe by the hundreds and. the thousands and the bodies of the Dead. dot the island wherever you look. [Music].

wow okay so then as we know this strain. like previous ones makes its way from. wild animals to farmed animals namely to. chickens but it's even more deadly. absolutely and in fact it has already. caused the worst bird flu outbreak in US. history so more than 90 million birds in. the US have died as a result of this. virus 90 million Birds yes and I should. be clear that that represents two things.

so some of those birds are birds who. naturally got infected and died from the. virus but the vast majority of them are. birds that were proactively called what. it adds up to is is 90 million farmed. birds in the US have died since this. virus emerged and it's not just a. chicken problem another thing that has. been kind of weird about this virus is. it has jumped into other kinds of farms. it is the first time we've seen a bird. flu virus jump into US livestock it's.

now been reported on a number of dairy. farms across eight US states and that's. just something that's totally. unprecedented so it's showing up at. Dairy Farms now you're saying that bird. flu has now spread to cows how did that. happen so we don't know exactly how cows. were first infected but most scientists. best guess is that maybe an infected. wild bird that was migrating shed the.

virus into some cattle feed or a pasture. or a pond and cattle picked it up the. good news is they don't seem to get. nearly as sick as chickens do they are. generally making full recoveries on. their own in a couple of weeks okay so. no Mass calling of cows no that doesn't. seem to be necessary at this point but. the bad news is that it's starting to. look like we're seeing this virus spread. from cow to cow we don't know exactly. how that's happening yet but anytime you.

see cow to cow or mammal to mammal. transmission that's a big concern and. why is that exactly well there are a. bunch of reasons first it could allow. the outbreak to get much bigger much. faster which might increase the risk to. the food supply and we might also expect. it to increase the risk to Farm Workers. people who might be in contact with. these sick cows right now the likelihood. that a farm fer who gets this virus.

passes it on is pretty low but anytime. you see mammal to mamal transmission it. increases the chance that the virus will. adapt and possibly maybe one day get. good at spreading between humans to be. clear that's not something that there's. any evidence of happening in cows right. now but the fact that there's any cow to. cow transmission happening at all is. enough to have scientists a bit. concerned.

and then if we sort of think more. expansively Beyond what's happening on. farms there's another big danger lurking. out there and that's what happens when. this virus gets into wild. animals vast populations that we can't. control we'll be right. back so Emily you said that another. threat was the threat of flu in wild.

animal populations clearly of course. it's already in wild birds where else. has it gone well the reason it's become. such a threat is because of how. widespread it's become in wild birds so. they keep reintroducing it to wild. animal populations pretty much anywhere. they go so we've seen the virus. repeatedly pop up in all sorts of. animals that you might figure would eat. a wild bird so foxes Bob cats Bears we.

actually saw it in a polar bear raccoons. so a lot of carnivores and scavengers. the thinking is that these animals sort. of Might stumble across a sick or dead. bird eat it and contract the virus that. way but we're also seeing it show up in. some more surprising places too we've. seen the virus in a bottlenosed dolphin. of all places wow and most devastatingly. we've seen enormous outbreaks in other.

sorts of marine mammals especially sea. lions and. seals so elephant seals in particular in. South America were just devastated by. this virus last. fall my colleague aova mandil and I were. talking to some scientists in South. America who described to us what they. called a scene from hell of walking out. onto a beach in Argentina that is. normally crowded with chaotic living.

breathing breeding elephant seals and. the beach just being covered by carcass. after carcass after carcass. God mostly carcasses of young newborn. pups the virus seemed to have a. mortality rate of. 95% in these elephant seal pups and they. estimated that it might have killed more. than 177,000 of the pups that were born. last year so almost the ENT entire new.

generation of this. Colony these are scientists that have. studied these seals for decades and they. said they've never seen anything like it. before and why is it so far reaching. Emily I mean what explains these Mass. die-offs there probably a few. explanations one is just how much virus. is out there in the environment being. shed by wild birds into water and onto. beaches the these are also places that.

viruses like this haven't been before so. it's reaching elephant seals and sea. liines in South America that have no. prior. immunity there's also the fact that. these particular species these sea lines. and seals tend to breed in these huge. colonies all crowded together on beaches. and so what that means is if a virus. makes its way into the colony it's very. conducive conditions for it to spread. and scientists think that that's.

actually what's happening now that it's. not just that all these seals are. picking up the virus from individual. birds but that they're actually passing. it to each other so basically this virus. is spreading to places it's never been. before kind of Virgin Snow territory. where animals just don't have the. immunity against it and once it gets. into a population packed on a beach say. of elephant seals it's just like a knife. through butter absolutely and and even. more extreme example of that is what.

we're starting to see happen in. Antarctica where there's never been a. bird flu outbreak before until last fall. for the first time this virus reached. the Antarctic Mainland and we are now. seeing the virus move through colonies. of not only seabirds and seals but. penguin colonies which have not been. exposed to these viruses before wow and. it's too soon to say what the toll will. be but Penguins also of course are known.

for breeding in these large colonies. probably don't have many immune defenses. against this virus and of course are. facing all these other environmental. threats and so there's a lot of fear. that you add on the stress of a bird flu. virus and it could just be a Tipping. Point for Penguins Emily at this point. I'm kind of wondering why more people. aren't talking about this I mean I. didn't know any of this before having. this conversation with you and it feels. feel pretty worrying well a lot of.

experts and scientists are talking about. this with Rising alarm and in terms that. are quite Stark they're talking about. the virus spreading through wild animal. population so quickly and so ferociously. that they're calling it an ecological. disaster wow but that's a disaster that. sometimes seems distant from us both. geographically you know we're talking. about things that are happening maybe at. the tip of Argentina or in Antarctica.

and also from our concerns of our. everyday lives what's happening in. Penguins might not seem like it has a. lot to do with the price of a carton of. eggs at the grocery store but I think. that we should be paying a lot of. attention to how this virus is moving. through animal populations how quickly. it's moving through animal populations. and the opportunities that it is giving. the virus to evolve into something that. poses a much bigger threat to human. health so the way it's spreading in wild.

animals even in remote places like. Antarctica that's important to watch at. least in part because there's a real. danger to people here so we know that. the virus can infect humans and that. generally it's not very good at. spreading between humans but the concern. all along has been that if this virus. has more opportunities to spread between. mammals it will get better at spreading. between them and that seems to be is. happening in seals and sea lions.

scientists are already seeing evidence. that the virus is adapting as it passes. from Marine Mammal to Marine Mammal and. that could turn it into a virus that's. also better at spreading between people. and if somebody walks out onto a beach. and touches a dead sea lion if their dog. starts playing with a sea lion carcass. you could imagine that this virus could. make its way out of marine mammals and. into the human. population and if it's this mamalian.

adapted version of the virus that makes. its way out that could be a bigger. threat to human health so the sheer. number of hosts that this disease has. the more opportunity it has to mutate. and the more chance it has to mutate in. a way that would actually be dangerous. for people yes and in particular the. more mamalian hosts so that gives the. virus many more opportunities to become. a specialist in mammals instead of a. specialist in Birds which is what it is.

right now right I like that a specialist. in mammals so what can we do to contain. this virus well scientists are exploring. new options there's been a lot of. discussion about whether we should start. vaccinating chickens in the US the. government USDA Labs have been testing. some poultry. vaccines it's probably scientifically. feasible there are challenges there both. in terms of logistics just how would you. go about vaccinating. billions of chickens every year there.

are also trade questions traditionally a. lot of countries have not been willing. to accept poultry products from. countries that vaccinate their poultry. and there's concern about whether the. virus might spread undetected in flocks. that are vaccinated so as we saw with. covid the vaccine can sometimes stop you. from getting sick but it doesn't. necessarily stop infection and so. countries are worried they might. Unknowing import products that are.

harboring the virus and what about among. wild animals I mean how do you even. begin to get your head around. that yeah I mean thinking about. vaccinating wild animals maybe makes. vaccinating all the chickens in the US. look easy there has been some discussion. of limited vaccination campaigns but. that's not feasible on a global scale so. unfortunately the bottom line is there. isn't a good way to stop spread in wild.

animals we can try to protect some. vulnerable populations but we're not. going to stop the circulation of this. virus so Emily we started this. conversation with a kind of curiosity. that the daily had about the price of. eggs and then you explained the bird flu. to us and then somehow we ended up. learning about an ecological disaster. that's unfolding all around us and. potentially the source of the next human. pandemic. that is pretty scary it is scary and.

it's easy to get overwhelmed by it and I. feel like I should take a step back and. say none of this is inevitable none of. this is necessarily happening tomorrow. but this is why scientists are concerned. and why they think it's really important. to keep a very close eye on what's. Happening both on farms and off Farms as. this virus spreads through all sorts of. animal populations one thing that comes. up again and again and again in my.

interviews with people who have been. studying bird flu for decades is how. this virus never stops surprising them. and sometimes those are bad surprises. like these elephant seal die offs the. incursions into dairy cattle but there. are some encouraging signs that have. emerged recently we're starting to see. some early evidence that some of the. bird populations that survived sort of. early brushes with this virus might be. developing some immunity so that's.

something that maybe could help slow the. spread of this virus in animal. populations we just don't entirely know. how this is going to play out flu is a. very difficult Wy Foe and so that's one. reason scientists are trying to keep. such a close attentive eye on what's. Happening. [Music].

Emily thank you thanks for having. [Music]. me we'll be right back. here's what else you should know today.

on this vote the AER 366 and the ner 58. the bill is. passed on Saturday in four back-to-back. votes the house voted resoundingly to. approve a long-stalled package of Aid to. Ukraine Israel and other American Allies. delivering a major victory to President. Biden who made Aid to Ukraine one of his. top priorities on this vote the yays are. 385 and the NOS are 34 with one.

answering present the bill is passed. without objection the house passed the. component parts of the $95 billion. package which included a bill that could. result in a nationwide ban of Tik Tok on. this vote the A's are 311 and the Nays. are 112 the bill is passed. oh one voting. present I miss it but thank you in a. remarkable breach of custom Democrats. stepped in to supply The crucial votes.

to push the legislation past Hardline. Republican opposition and bring it to. the floor the house will be in. order the Senate is expected to pass the. legislation as early as. [Music]. Tuesday today's episode was produced by. Ricky nety Nina Felman Eric krupy and. Alex Stern it was edited by Lisa chow. and Patricia willins contains original. music by Marian Lozano Dan Powell Rowan.

Nimo and Sophia lman and was engineered. by Chris Wood our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben Lanser of wonderly. special thanks to Andrew. [Music]. Jacobs that's it for the daylight I'm. Sabrina tavernes see you tomorrow.

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