The Eclipse Chaser

can you hear Fred can you hear. me the internet is a little wonky. okay. so here isn't really. fast I think we're gonna call yeah I. think we're going to call you back on a. for the first time in a really long time. a. landline. [Music]. okay.

hey Fred it's Michael Barbaro hi can you. can hear me okay I can hear you perfect. so Fred where exactly am I reaching you. I'm in Portal Arizona in a little. Community called Arizona sky village H. and it's a very rural community so our. internet and phone lines are not very. good and the nearest grocery store is 60. miles away wow and why would you choose. to live in such a remote place with such.

bad internet because the sky is dark. it's like the sky was a 100 years ago. before cities en Crouch down all over. the country I guess you'd call it an. astronomy development mainly amateur. astronomers who have Built Homes here. far from city lights for the express. purpose of studying the. [Music]. sky so it's literally a community where. once the sun goes down it's Pitch Black.

and some perhaps all of you are. stargaming yes exactly well I think I'm. beginning to understand why you might. have the nickname that you do can you. just tell our listeners what that. nickname is my nickname is Mr. [Music]. eclipse from The New York Times I'm. Michael Bavaro this is the. daily today.

total solar eclipse will be watched by. millions of people across North America. none of them as closely as Fred espenak. a longtime NASA scientist who's devoted. his entire life to studying chasing and. popularizing the wonder that is an. [Music]. eclipse it's Monday a April.

[Music]. 8th Fred help me understand how you. become Mr Eclipse how you go from being. Fred to this it seemingly very. hard-earned nickname of Mr eclips well I. was visiting my grandparents at their. summer. home and it was a partial eclipse of the. Sun back in the early.

1960s and I was a 10 or 12y old kid I. got my parents to get me a small. telescope and I watched some of the. partial phases and it was really. interesting and I started reading about. eclipses and I found out that that as. interesting as a partial eclipse is a. total eclipse is far more interesting. H the Moon is only 1400th the diameter. of the sun it's tiny compared to the Sun. but it's 400 times closer to the Earth.

so it's just this incredible coincidence. that the moon and sun appear to be the. same size in the sky and once in a while. the moon passes directly between the. Earth and the Sun and you're plunged. into this very strange midday. Twilight but they're limited to very. small Geographic areas to see a total. eclipse and this little book I was. studying had a map of the world showing. upcoming Paths of total solar eclipses.

and I realized that one was passing. through North America about 600 miles. from where I. lived and that that Eclipse was in. 1970 and I was reading about this in. 1963. 1964 and I made it a promise to myself. that I was going to get to that eclipse. in 1970 to see it cuz I thought it was a. one chance in a lifetime to see a total. eclipse of the. [Music]. Sun.

so just to be very clear you see a. partial eclipse and you immediately. think to yourself that was fine but I. need the real thing I need a full. eclipse and you happen to find out. around this time that a real eclipse is. coming but in seven years right I mean. there were other eclipses between that. time and seven years in the future but. they were in other parts of the world. and I couldn't buy an airplane ticket. and fly to Europe or Australia.

mhm and by. 1970 I'd been waiting for this and by. this point I had just gotten a driver's. license um and I convinced my parents to. let me uh drive the car uh 600 miles to. down into the path of totality to see. this great event wow wait from from. where to where from Staten Island New. York down to uh a little town in North. Carolina how did you convince your. parents to let you do that I mean that's. well I had seven years to work on.

it right and you know I was I was just a. nerdy kid I I didn't get into trouble I. was interested in science I was out in. the woods studying frogs and Wildlife. and stuff so this was just a natural. progression of the type of things I. would normally do right okay so I wonder. if you can describe this journey you end. up taking from Staten Island how does. the trip unfold as you're.

headed on this 600 mile so I think on. March 6th 1970 it was a Friday my friend. and I left to drive to the eclipse path. and we probably got on the road probably. at 5:00 a.m. because it was going to be. a very long day and we've got a detailed. map in the car which I've plotted the. eclipse path on and we're just trying to. get far enough South to get into the. path of the Eclipse which for us is. eastern most Virginia or east North.

Carolina mhm and I drive and drive and. drive all day long very long day we get. down to North Carolina right about maybe. 6:00 p.m. and we just see this little. town in North Carolina that we're. driving through and it happens to have a. convenient Motel right in the center of. the path and that was good enough got a. room available and we check in and. that's where we're going to watch the. eclipse. from and the next morning morning was. Eclipse.

day it was a bright crisp Sunny morning. there weren't any clouds at all in the. sky and I was amazed that outside the. back of the motel in this grassy field. there were dozens and dozens of people. with telescopes out there specifically. there for the eclipse that morning H we. were really excited about this we set up. our my telescope and we had another. camera set up to watch it and we walked. around and and marveled at some of the.

other people in their telescopes and. discussed the eclipse with them and the. eclipse started probably around um. around noon or 1 in the. afternoon describe the. actual event itself the eclipse how did. it begin well all solar eclipses begin. as a partial eclipse and the Sun is. gradually covered by the moon as the. moon takes larger and larger pieces out. of the Sun as it slowly crawls across.

the sun's. surface and you don't really notice much. going on with a naked. eye it's really only in the last 10. minutes or so that you start to notice. changes in the. environment because now enough of the. sun has been covered upwards of maybe. 90% of the. Sun and you start to notice the. temperature falling there's a chill in.

the. air also since so much of the sun is. covered the daylight starts to take on. kind of an an. anemic uh quality it it's. weak the sun is still too bright to look. at but the surroundings the environment. is not as bright as it was a half hour. earlier you start to notice animals. reacting to the dwindling sunlight they. start acting like it's Sunset and they.

start performing some of their evening. rituals like birds roosting perhaps. calling their their evening songs and uh. plants start closing up in the dropping. sunlight and in the dropping. temperatures and there's an acceleration. now of all these effects the temperature. drop the drop in the sunlight it starts. happening faster and faster and getting. darker and. darker and maybe about a minute before.

the total eclipse began we noticed. strange patterns on the ground beneath. us on the grassy field that we were on. these ripples racing across the. field and these are something called. Shadow. bands they look a lot like the Rippling. patterns that you would see on the. bottom of a swimming pool bands of light. and dark and moving very quickly across. the. ground the sky is it's a dark blue and.

it's getting darker rapidly uh in this. dwindling. sunlight and you go from daylight to. Twilight in just 10 or 20 seconds it's. almost like someone has the hand on the. rat turns the house lights down in the. theater you just see the light just go. right. down and the sky Sky gets dark enough.

that the corona the outer atmosphere of. the Sun starts emerging from the. background. sky this ring or Halo of gas that. surrounds the Sun and. it's visible around the Moon which is in. silhouette against the. Sun and along one edge of the moon is. this bright bead of sunlight because. that's the last remaining piece of the. sun before it becomes total. and this is the diamond ring effect.

because you've got the Ring of the. Corona and this dazzling Jewel along one. edge of. it you only get to see this for 10 or 15. seconds it's very fleeting before the. moon completely covers the sun's. disc and totality begins suddenly you're. in this Twilight of the Moon. Shadow and you look around the Horizon.

and you're seeing the colors of Sunrise. or Sunset 360° around the Horizon. because you're looking out the edge of. the Moon Shadow and looking back up into. the sky the sun is gone now and you see. this black disc of the Moon in. silhouette surrounded by the sun's. [Music]. Corona.

maybe this says more about my nature. than anything else but what you're. describing a little bit feels like the. end of the. world well I think when you see this all. transpire you can easily understand how. people thought this was the end of the. world because it seems far outside of. the Realms of nature it seems. Supernatural so you can see how people. panicked that didn't understand what was. going on that was not your reaction.

no I think it's a sense of. of belonging belonging to this. Incredible Universe both belonging and a. humbleness that how minuscule we are and. yet we're a part of this fantastic. Cosmic Wheel Of Motion in the solar. system you almost get a. three-dimensional sense of the Motions. of the Earth and the moon around the Sun. when you see this sort of clockwork.

displayed right in front of you this. mechanics of the eclipse taking place. it's almost like lifts you up off the. planet and you can look back down at the. solar system and see how it's all put. together and you've only got to in that. case in that particular Eclipse it was. only 2 and 1/2 minutes to look at this. well there's kind of a clock in your. head saying you don't have much of this. you don't have much of it it almost. seems like time stops.

and at the same time all of a sudden. eclipse is over those 2 minutes just. Race. by and it's over and all of a sudden the. diamond ring forms again on the opposite. side of the moon um as the Sun starts to. become uncovered at the end of totality. and the diamond ring appears it grows. incredibly bright in just a few seconds. and you can't look at it anymore it's. too bright you got to put your filters. back on and and cover your telescope.

with a solar filter so it doesn't get. damaged and you're trembling because of. this. [Music]. event everybody was cheering and. shouting and yelling I mean you would. have thought you were at a a sports game. and the home team just scored a. touchdown just everybody screaming at at. the top of their lungs and I immediately. started thinking that this can't be a. once in lifetime EXP experience I've got.

to see this. [Music]. again we'll be right. [Music]. back okay so Fred it's the early 1970s. and you are are not Mr Eclipse yet.

you're just a kid who felt. something very big when you watched an. eclipse so how did you end up becoming. the premier Authority that you now are. on. eclipses well after that 1970 Eclipse I. started looking into upcoming solar. eclipses so I could get a chance to see. the sun's Corona again mhm and the next. total eclipse was in Eastern Canada in.

July of uh. 1972 and I started thinking about that. eclipse and by then I was going to be in. uh college and I started planning. because that one was still something I. could drive to it was 12200 miles. instead of 600. miles so the summer of 1972 rolls around. and I drove up to the eclipse in Quebec. to se totality and was unfortunately. clouded out of the eclipse I saw some of. the partial phases but clouds moved in.

and obscured the Sun for that view of uh. the sun's Corona you were robbed I was. robbed and I realized well I've got to. expand my Outlook on what's an. acceptable distance to travel to see a. total eclipse mhm because the next total. eclipse then in. 1973 was through the Sahara desert in. Northern Africa so I traveled to the. Sahara Desert for the eclipse where we. had decent we weather not perfect but.

decent weather that we got to see. totality there you saw totality in the. desert in the desert in the Sahara. Desert after that it was just trying to. get to every total eclipse I possibly. could get to at this point you're. clearly starting to become an eclipse. Chaser and I don't even know if such a. thing existed at that moment yeah I. don't think I don't know if it was. called that then but but certainly yeah. and and if you'll permit me a question. that might seem maybe Dopey to someone. in your. field after you've seen one or two or.

three of these do they start to kind of. blend in together and become a little. bit the. same not at all each one is distinctly. different the sun itself is dramatically. different the sun's Corona is different. at each Eclipse because the corona is a. product of the sun's magnetic field and. that magnetic field is changing every. day so the details the fine structure in. the Suns coron is always different mhm.

so every eclipses is dramatically. different the appearance of the sun's. Corona right if you look at one Renoir. it's not the same as the next one you're. describing the corona of each Eclipse as. its own work of art basically exactly. yeah so as you're chasing these eclipses. around the world what is the place of an. eclipse in your day-to-day academic. studies and soon enough your. professional work so I went to grad.

school at University of Toledo and did. some work at the kit Peak National. Observatory learning the ins and outs of. photometric photometry that is measuring. the brightness of stars and eventually. this led to a job opening at the NASA. godded space flight center and I got. interested in the idea of predicting. eclipses and started studying the. mathematics of how to do this and I sort. of took it over on a officially and. started publishing these technical maps.

and details and we published about a. dozen books through NASA on upcoming. eclipses people would just write me a. letter and say they wanted a copy of the. eclipse bulletin for such and such an. eclipse and I would stuff it in an. envelope and mail it to them so you take. it upon yourself to make sure that. everyone is going to know when the next. eclipse is coming yes and no doubt. during this period you keep going to. each and every eclipse and and I wonder. which of them stand out to you well I've.

seen total eclipses from Australia from. Africa from the altiplanos in Bolivia. from the ice sheet on the coast of. Antarctica and even from uh northern. China on the edge of the GOI desert but. one of the most notable eclipses for me. was I traveled to India to see a 41. second Eclipse which was very short and. besides. seeing a great eclipse in India I also.

met my future wife there she was on the. same trip well I have to hear that. story well she had been trying to see a. total eclipse for about 25 years wow she. tried to see the 1970 Eclipse but her. friends who were going to drive down. from Pennsylvania down to North Carolina. sort of talked her out of it at the 11th. Hour they talked her out of seeing the. same Eclipse that was your first total. eclipse that was so important to you yes.

and they talked her out of it because. from Pennsylvania they were going to. have a maybe a 90% Eclipse they didn't. know any better they thought that was. good enough mhm and she regretted that. decision so then she said okay well I. got to get to the next total eclipse. which was in Quebec in. 1972 the same one that was my second. eclipse and we were probably within 5. miles of each other in krec and we were. both clouded out right then she was.

married she was raising kids she's got. busy with domestic life for 20 years she. became a widow so now 1995 there's this. 41 second eclipse in India that is very. difficult to get to it's halfway around. the world but she's still itching to see. a total eclipse mhm and we join the same. Expedition a travel group of 30 Eclipse. Chasers and end up in India for the. eclipse and we have fantastic weather.

it's. [Music]. perfect she was in tears after totality. she had been waiting so long to see it. and we struck up a friendship on that. trip by the time uh the 1998 Eclipse was. taking place in the Caribbean uh at that. point we were together we went to that. was our first Eclipse to observe uh as a. couple I think our wedding cake had a. big eclipse on the top of the.

cake perfect we made a music CD for the. wedding that we played during the. reception and of course all the music on. on the CD had sun and moon themes to. [Laughter]. ittal Eclipse of the. Heart course had Total Eclipse of the. Heart was a must have had to had. to. it strikes me Fred that eclipses are.

such an organizing principle in your. life your life seems to literally orbit. around them when you were a kid you. started planning for them years in. advance this work becomes Central to. your career it's how you meet your. wife and you said when I asked you about. each Eclipse that they're all different. and obviously you're different at each. Eclipse because time has has past your.

life has changed and it just feels like. your life is being lived in a kind of. ongoing. conversation with this phenomenon of the. Sun and the Moon. overlapping well the eclipses are like. benchmarks that I can use to figure out. what else was going on in my life during. these times because I. remember the dates of every single. Eclipse I've been to and if I see a. photograph of the solar Corona shot. during any particular Eclipse I know.

what Eclipse that was I can recognize. the pattern of the corona like a. fingerprint that's amazing and I know. the year of the eclipse it reminds me of. when Pat and I got married and between. which Eclipse we were getting married. and had the plan our wedding so it. didn't interfere with any kind of. eclipse. strips and uh they just serve as sort of. a benchmarks or markers for the rest of. my life of when various eclipses take. place place so they're easy for marking.

the passage of time mhm so we are of. course talking to you a few days before. this year's Eclipse which I cannot. fathom you missing so where are you. planning to watch this total eclipse Pat. and I are leaving for uh Mazon Mexico. actually tomorrow and we've got about 80. people joining us down in masalon for. this eclipse in in our tour group. and for you of course this year's.

eclipse is just the latest in a very. long line of eclipses but I think for. the rest of us and here I'm thinking. about. myself this is really going to be my. first total eclipse at least that I can. remember and for my two little kids it's. absolutely going to be their first and. given the hard-earned wisdom that you've. accumulated in all your Decades of. chasing eclipses around the world I. wonder if you can give us just a little. bit of advice. for how to best live inside this very.

brief window of a total solar eclipse to. make sure not to be cliched but that we. make it count well I think one mistake. that people tend to make is getting. preoccupied with recording everything in. their lives what they had for lunch what. they had for dinner and seeing the. eclipse is something that you want to. witness firsthand try to be present in. seeing the eclipse in in the moment of.

it so don't get preoccupied with. recording every instant of it um sit. back and try to take in the entire. experience because those several minutes. pass by so rapidly but you'll replay. them in your mind over and over and over. again and you don't want technology. getting between you and that experience. and remember to take your eclipse. glasses off when totality begins note. how dark it gets during totality take. the glasses off because. well the the glasses protect your eyes.

from the sun's bright disc but when. totality Begins the sun's bright disc is. gone so if you use your solar eclipse. glasses to try to look at the corona you. won't see anything you'll just see. Blackness mhm you've got to remove the. eclipse glasses in order to see the. Corona and it's completely safe and it's. a an incredible sight to to behold but. during totality you just want to look. around without the glasses on and take. in the sights take in The Horizon.

360° uh surrounding you with these. Twilight colors and sunset colors you'll. easily be able to see Jupiter and Venus. shining on either side of the Sun during. totality and look at the details in the. sun's Corona fine wispy textures and any. possible red prominences hugging against. the moon's disc during. totality and let's say it's now the. moment of totality and you Mr Eclipse.

can whisper one thing into someone's ear. as they're watching what would you say. to. [Music]. them enjoy just take it all. in well Fred thank you very much we. really appreciate it well thank you I. hope everybody has some clear sky me. too. [Music].

after today the next total solar eclipse. to be visible from the continental. United States will occur 20 years from. now in. 2044 in other words you might as well. watch. today's we'll be right. back here's what else you need to. another day Israel has fired two.

officers in connection with the deadly. air strike on Aid workers from the. world's Central Kitchen who were killed. last week while delivering food to. civilians in Gaza in a report released. on Friday Israel blamed their deaths on. a string of Errors made by the military. the air strike Israel said was based on. insufficient and incorrect evidence that. a passenger traveling with the workers. was. armed meanwhile Israel said it withdrew.

a division of ground troops from. Southern Gaza on Sunday leaving no. soldiers actively patrolling the area. the move raises questions about Israel's. strategy as the war drags into its sixth. month in particular it casts doubt on. Israel's plans to invade Rafa gaza's. Southernmost city an invasion that the. United States states has asked Israel. not to carry out for fear of large scale.

civilian. [Music]. casualties today's episode was produced. by Alex Stern and Sydney Harper with. help from will Reed and Jessica Chong it. was edited by Devin Taylor fact checked. by Susan Lee contains original music by. Dan pal Maran Lozano Alicia B and shle. and sound design by Alicia B and Dan.

Powell it was engineered by Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and. Ben Lanser of wonderly special thanks to. Anthony. [Music]. Wallace that's it for the daily I'm. Michael. B see you. tomorrow. [Music].