The Demise of U.S.A.I.D. — and American Soft Power

from The New York Times I'm Michael. Babar this is the. [Music]. daily the horrible us. Aid the horrible things that they're. spending money on it's it's got to be. Kickbacks you know they said as. president Trump demolishes the. government's biggest provider of foreign. aid the United States agency for. International Development which he calls. was ful and misguided it's absolutely.

obscene dangerous bad very costly I mean. virtually every investment made is a. gjab he's ending a 60-year bipartisan. consensus about the best way to keep. America safe from its. enemies today my colleagues State. Department reporter Michael crowy and. health reporter Stephanie noan on the. rise and fall of us Aid and American.

soft. [Music]. [Applause]. power it's Tuesday February. [Music]. 11th my as we speak to you usaid has.

basically been dismantled a judge has. paused elements of that dismantling but. the writing is very much on the wall. it's a shell of itself so much so that. its name has literally been removed from. its headquarters in Washington and I. think a lot of us have the sense that. this elimination of this agency is a. very big deal even if we don't entirely. understand exactly how usaid worked and. why the United States was doing so much.

of this kind of foreign aid work on this. scale to begin with so what is that. backstory well USA ID was founded by. President John F Kennedy who created it. with an executive order in 1961 and he. did that not out of some pure sense of. Charity not out of a sense that there. was famine in the world and and America. had a responsibility to address it the. uh people who are opposed to Aid should.

realize that this is a. very powerful source of strength for. [Music]. us it was a matter of National Security. it permits us to exert influence for the. maintenance of Freedom he was reacting. to the cold war competition with the. Soviet Union that was underway at the. time if we did not uh were not so. heavily involved.

our voice would not speak with such a. Vigor and which he saw as a real threat. to America's privacy and security and. you know the Soviet Union was presenting. itself as the champion particularly in. the developing world of countries that. had been under colonialism for decades. or more and you know felt that they had. been treated badly by the west and uh as. we do not want to send American troops.

to a great many areas where Freedom may. be under attack we send you and Kennedy. felt like America had to show that we. are not exploiting the world around us. we care about its welfare working with. the people in those countries to try to. work with them in developing the. economic thrust of their country so that. they can make a determination that they. can solve their problems without. resorting to totalitarian control and.

becoming part of the block and. ultimately this is the most important. part choose us and not the Soviet. Union right choose democracy and. capitalism not communism that's right. and in Kennedy's mind the United States. had a real problem the United States was. at risk of losing this competition with. the Soviet Union why well one thing that. motivated Kennedy and it's such an. interesting footnote to all of this was. a popular best-selling book at the time.

called The Ugly American the Ugly. American essentially told the story that. American diplomats in Asia were out of. touch with the places where they were. working they didn't understand the local. culture they seemed like they had. parachuted in from another world and in. some cases made more enemies than. friends and this was a big problem for. the United States that Americans were. seen as ugly and Kennedy actually.

recommended that his associates and. members of Congress read this book to. understand this problem and he felt like. America had to stop presenting the ugly. face and had to present a more. benevolent helpful face fascinating so. usaid in Kennedy's mind is the antidote. to the perception of the Ugly American. it is the generous American the. altruistic American who shows up. strategically with humanitarian.

and makes your life if you're overseas. skeptical of America materially better. that's exactly right usaid is building. schools building hospitals providing. people with clean drinking water. life-saving medicines helping them find. employment developing local. infrastructure all kinds of things that. help people in a fundamental day-to-day. way have better lives in these countries. but part of what's Happening as usaid.

does this work is you're gaining. influence you're getting to know. government officials you're getting to. know people in the local population so. this kind of becomes the basis of what. we know as soft power which is distinct. from hard power that's military power. right soft power is is influence and. relationships and a bipartisan consensus. forms around the value of soft power as. an instrument of American foreign policy. going forward for decades and so Kennedy. launches usaid but year after year.

presidents of both parties accept usaid. as a central part of American foreign. policy I have to imagine however that. when the US wins the Cold War by the end. of the 1980s the early 1990s that this. poses something of a challenge to. usaid's. purpose it does but at the same time. some pretty good new rationals emerge. for the continuation of a robust USA ID. why because after 9/11 America realized.

that the Soviet communist ideology that. threatened us had been replaced by a new. ideology it was a terrorist ideology it. was it was a radical fundamentalism that. was emerging from parts of the world. where usaid did a lot of work and that. terrorism really flourished in countries. where there was instability weak Civil. Society you know when a state collapses. entirely that becomes a breeding ground.

for radicalism and so there was a new. value placed on American Aid programs in. countries that could maintain stability. try to help find jobs for people who. might otherwise turn to radicalism all. kinds of programs that were perceived as. being part of the mission of combating. worldwide terrorism right but it's also. during that period that we see some of. the usaid's real limitations and frankly. some of the most wasteful projects that. it's ever undertaken.

huh like what well there was one project. in Afghanistan known as promote that was. meant to empower women in the country. give them workplace experience it was. originally budgeted at $280 million and. it was supposed to help 75,000 women get. jobs promotions apprenticeships. internships but An Inspector General. report uh that came out a few years ago. found that only 55 women had been. promoted to better jobs wow out of. $5,000 original goal that was the.

original goal and the Inspector General. essentially said the whole thing had. been a complete waste so basically a. nearly $300 million program funded by us. the taxpayer turned out to have been a. boond dole yeah basically down the tubes. so look you might cut them some slack. for having been in a war zone a lot of. projects were Tried by a lot of. different parts of the US government in. Iraq and Afghanistan that just flopped. right even granting that USA has.

maintained strong bipartisan support for. years and years and the view of both. parties is that not every project is. going to work perfectly not every dollar. is going to give you an ideal return but. that at the end of the day relative to. the National budget usaid does not spend. that much money and actually overall you. get a good return on your dollar and. you're getting real value for American. interests and that usaid is important to.

continue in support that it's really. good for the United States of. America perhaps the clearest example of. how usaid exerts American soft power is. through the work it's done in public. health and to understand that I spoke. with my colleague Global Health reporter. Stephanie Nolan. [Music].

Stephanie how big a part of us. Aid's budget and work is Healthcare the. subject you have spent so much of your. career covering so it's roughly a third. if you think about usad having a budget. of about $40 billion about 12 a half. billion of that was spent on Healthcare. wow so it's a really meaningful part of. what this agency does around the world.

yeah totally and in your Global travels. which are many and varied how frequently. do you encounter a US aid program of one. kind or. another I would have to think for a long. time to think of a trip when I have not. come across either us. funded research or medications or. humanitarian assistance and one of the. big ones is the h program which was.

started at the height of you know if you. think back 20 years to when there were. almost 30 million people living with HIV. in subsaharan Africa and no treatment. and people were dying in just these. extraordinary numbers and at that point. President George W bush created this. emergency AIDS response program and it. has brought life-saving HIV medication. to millions and millions of people today. there's about 21 million people who rely. on that program for that medication it's. been responsible for getting drugs to.

hundreds of thousands of women with HIV. who were giving birth to make sure that. their babies weren't. infected less well known but I would. argue about as important is something. called the president's malaria. initiative and it does malaria control. programs across the countries that have. the highest burden of malaria and they. do an extraordinary range of things from. helping people put the chemicals in. water supply to control mosquitoes.

giving out bed nets giving out malarial. treatments supporting the research that. finds new drugs to control the parasites. they've played I would say like an. essential role in the fact that deaths. from malaria were cut in half over the. last 15 years that the program was. operating so let me be dense for just a. moment deliberately so how do those two. programs which are clearly saving. hundreds of thousands in the case of the. HIV program millions of lives in places.

like Africa how in the minds of usaid. and the US government do those beyond. the indisputable altruism that you're. describing Advance American interest as. this program has always been envisioned. I think one really basic but important. thing is that it really directly touches. people's lives right you're getting help. and it's made clear to you where that. help is coming from so the medications.

you get emergency supplies tents food. Aid it all comes branded with the words. a gift of the people of the United. States right and it's a message from the. US government saying we are here for you. in this difficult moment in your moment. of need we are a compassionate and. benevolent actor we are good guys who. care about you we're on your team and. that's like viewed as laying a kind of. Cornerstone for a positive foreign. policy relationship right this is.

essentially President Kennedy's vision. of us aid from the beginning which we. just talked about with Michael crowy. this is the opposite of the. imperialistic Ugly American Image that. Kennedy was trying to fight exactly. you're taking your baby in to get TB. medication and the little counter that. they're sitting your kit up on to weigh. and examine them has a little American. flag in the corner this is not a.

nefarious actor right this is a country. that's here to help MH and then I think. you know it's also important to. recognize that this of course is not. only about Goodwill there is economic. value in a lot of this for America and. American companies so how so you know as. I look back over kind of 25 years of. covering the response to the AIDS. epidemic uh keeping those people alive. was. the right thing to do you know in human.

terms it also had economic payoff right. like I used to go to Zambia for example. and Report when close to a third of. people who would be your productive. Workforce like people between the ages. of about 18 and 45 a third of those. people had untreated HIV right so now. today 20 years later thanks in large. part to this us funded program almost. all of those people with HIV are on. treatment they're back to work they. don't even think about it and. that's obviously incredibly valuable for.

them for their families but it also had. an economic impact on the country right. like it became a much more economically. stable country when it was not being. crippled by HIV and is it kind of grim. to think about it in these terms sure. but if you're looking for a. justification for the investment of. American taxpayer dollars well Zambia. has a very busy mining sector the US has. a lot of mining interest there including. agreements for electric vehicle supply. chain so I think it's pretty clear that.

this was the right thing to do in human. terms it also had Direct economic. benefit to the United States that might. sound kind of very. pragmatic but you're saying the reality. is that when the United States does. right by the people of Zambia by giving. them HIV drugs and saving their lives. they happen to ensure the country's. economic health persists in a way that. way down dream benefits Americans and.

the American economy which really does. feel like the ultimate winwin version of. foreign aid that's exactly right and. every year or every couple of years a. usaid partner country kind of graduates. from the roles of foreign assistant and. stops being a country that's getting USA. and becomes just a trading partner like. there is ultimately long-term economic. payoff in something like helping a.

community get bed nets and malaria. treatment in all of their rural clinics. and you're suggesting that that Journey. from being dependent on foreign aid to. becoming a potential us trading partner. that Journey seems unimaginable if these. countries can't surmount their. overwhelming HIV and malaria problems to. begin with which is what the American. assistants allowed them to do I think. this gets to another point because these. countries that have received all of this. assistance we imagine them you know.

becoming Global actors who are also. American Allies right and you know the. US is not the only country capable of. providing this kind of assistance when I. go to Zambia these days I actually see a. bigger presence from China than I do the. US and so not only you know is the US. attempting to buy some Goodwill but. they're occupying space that otherwise. might be taken up by other people so. it's also sort of a deliberate foreign. policy play in that way well I think.

that brings us to the moment we're in. right where president Trump is. inaugurated looks at this agency and. sees a lot of problems I mean is he. right to think that there is some real. cost cutting to be done at USA putting. aside the extent of it for just the. moment I will say. that everyone I have ever spoken to who. works for usaid has said that they.

wished that things about the. organization were done differently and. more efficiently and often in a way that. would probably save money I don't think. I've ever met anyone who worked there. who would not have said that there was. room for significant Improvement and. lots of ways that things could have been. done. better but I don't think any of those. people would have said that even badly. needed reform would look like what we've.

seen in the last few. days a total dismantling and and in a. very real sense a shutting down of USA. ID yeah it's the complete eradication of. this agency with this 60-year history in. hours basically I mean I feel like I. watched it dissolve in real time. [Music].

we'll be right. back Stephanie I want you to talk about. what it has looked like for this agency. to be dissolved to use your word and. specifically what that has looked like. within the health care programs that you. have spent all these years covering and. that were designed to benefit the United. States well let me give you one one. example I spoke to a scientist named.

Leila Mansour in South Africa at an HIV. research project where I've spent a lot. of time and she was running a clinical. trial to test new ways of trying to. prevent HIV and so she had a new. experimental ring it's a vaginal ring. that women would wear to prevent both. pregnancy and infection with HIV and. it's an early stage trial so they're. just testing these rings to see if. they're comfortable if they fit that. kind of thing and this testing it sounds. like is funded by USA ID it's funded by.

usaid and so this researcher Dr Leila. she gets up one day and she's got this. stop work order from Washington it's an. order that she do no activities using us. funds so that's her USA ID grant money. that's paying for this clinical trial so. she's in fact not supposed to have any. further communication with these women. from the community who are now wearing. this experimental ring she's not even. supposed to tell them that she's no.

longer allowed to take care of them huh. that's how thoroughly the Trump. Administration wants this all to just. come to a halt yeah so Dr Leela told me. that she couldn't accept that as a. doctor as an ethical scientist and she. arranged with her team to bring all of. these women immediately into the clinic. and to have them remove the Rings and. collect them and make sure that. everybody was okay and just try to. explain to them that the US had suddenly.

withdrawn its funding and the trial was. over and I really wondered listening to. her what that felt like for those women. this is a community that I know pretty. well where literally generations of. people have volunteered their bodies for. science some of the best HIV treatments. and prevention mechanisms we have have. been tested on these communities so as. you can imagine there's a real. relationship of trust between these.

people who volunteer and these. scientists and so I asked Dr Leela to. connect me with someone who'd been in. her clinical trial and I spoke to a. young woman named aanda zandi and she. told me about how bizarre it was to just. get this phone call that said come in. right away tomorrow morning we're going. to take out the ring the trial is over. and she told me how you know she and the. other women in the trial were talking to. each other saying like what do you think. has happened and and of course the. explanation they've been given is like.

kind of a non-explanation right which. leaves you wondering like and she said. you know really fearful and are you. being told the whole truth and what's. really happening and listening to Dr. Lila like you could see how this. relationship of trust that is. foundational to the kind of scientific. research the US has wanted to do around. the world for you know years and years. is just chattered instantly so the the. speed and the manner in which the Trump.

Administration is dismantling usaid. means that this medical work in South. Africa that has been intended to. strengthen ties between the US and the. people of South Africa is now dissolved. into the situation where they are. probably angry and distrustful and. fearful this would seem to be the very. opposite of the. of USA.

ID you know I think in that one. relationship in South Africa you see a. kind of overnight switch from. appreciation to mistrust and fear and I. think like RIT large that's what I've. seen really in every conversation and. you know I've had 30 or 40 of them a day. for the past couple weeks where people. have gone from deeply deeply valuing. this relationship that has even made. their work possible or kept their kids.

alive or kept them alive uh to a. response that just feels. extraordinarily capricious and cruel and. profoundly. isolating and so you know I guess the. thing that really stands out for me is. that you. could cut the amount the you spends on. foreign aid you could dramatically. change the way the US spends money on.

foreign. aid but it would be very hard to. overstate the degree of damage that has. been done to those relationships with. individuals and with governments around. the world by the events of the last few. [Music]. days so Michael if Stephanie Nolan just. explained very clearly USA's work.

generally. speaking advances America's interest. overseas with a full awareness of its. potential for bloatedness and. wastefulness but if it generally. delivers still on Kennedy's vision of. soft power why if you were Donald Trump. and those around him eliminate. it well Michael Trump and the people. around him have never had much interest.

in the use of soft power Trump is a hard. power kind of guy he's not about winning. friends and influencing people through. favors charity sweet talk he likes to. apply muscle pressure threats some. people say bullying so this isn't really. part of his uh Playbook and a lot of. this work is done in parts of the world. about which he's spoken derisively. including Africa where a huge amount of.

usaid work happens right those were the. countries that famously in his first. term he referred to as hole. countries that's right so that's one. thing you know another is that usaid was. an easy target explain that one of. Trump's highest priorities clearly is. really trying to break the bureaucracy. trying to purge federal workers trying. to dramatically shrink the size of the. American government and you know.

Americans generally speaking are very. skeptical of foreign aid so I think. usaid has almost become a test case or a. trial run for Trump's larger plans to. smash apart the existing. bureaucracy Purge thousands of federal. workers and shrink the size of the. federal government what's interesting. about the way you're framing this is. that it's it's tempting to see what. Trump is doing as first and foremost.

attacking dismantling the idea of soft. power you're saying that may be. incidental to dismantling the federal. bureaucracy and that you can't really. disentangle the two missions but I'm. still curious why based on your. reporting the president wants to. dismantle. usaid so quickly so haphazardly in a way. that frankly pisses so many people.

across the world off well it's a little. bit of a mystery Michael and I think. that we've seen Clues to what the answer. might be look at comments that people. around Trump have made for years. suggesting that you have to attack the. bureaucracy almost mercilessly you have. to smash it knock it down and keep it. down before it has a chance to get back. up to to people around Trump theau. ocracy is almost like a a movie monster.

that keeps getting back up you can't. kill it and I think that there's a sense. that you have to deal a knockout blow. quickly before the courts members of. Congress the unions all these other. factors can come in and start fighting. back now that doesn't mean that usaid. has no defenses the courts are already. involved we'll see what happens but the. strategy I think is speed kills the. critique of this I guess the critique of.

Trump's critique is that this. dismantling of this particular agency. this test case has real impacts and the. impacts are that it may seed a huge. amount of ground to our rivals in the. world of soft power especially China. which has shown enormous enthusiasm for. soft power and we've done so many. episodes about this China wants to build. your new highway China wants to put. solar panels on the street lights so.

that they work at night in a country. with not much electricity China wants to. do almost anything it can to deepen its. ties to all these countries where usaid. has been doing. work that's right it's going to create a. vacuum and the risk here is that we've. circled back to the context that led. President Kennedy to create usaid in the. early 1960s John Kennedy believed that. America was in a global competition for.

influence with another great power and. that usaid was a way to Win Friends and. Influence People we are now back at a. time where even president Trump and his. advisers say right the the defining. national security threat for America is. a global competition for power and. influence with another great power in. this case it's China right and to really. bring it back to Kennedy based on.

everything you're saying Michael we're. not just at this moment getting rid of. USA ID and the concept of soft power. through Trump's actions we are replacing. it it would seem with what you described. as Trump's approach to hard power. tariffs and threats and that makes me. wonder if we are resuming in that full. circle way the the version of American. foreign policy that existed right before.

Kennedy created usaid it's the Ugly. American approach to foreign policy. perhaps and what is that going to mean. for the US and the. world well that's exactly the concern. Michael and no one is really providing. good. answers people in the Trump. Administration just kind of dismissed. the idea that China or Russia are going. to benefit from this. and their critics say they're taking a.

huge risk and we can't know how it's. going to play out but I think you're. exactly right I think the concern is. that the Ugly American will make a. comeback and that will work to the. benefit of our adversaries around the. world well Michael thank you very much. we appreciate it thanks for having me on. [Music]. on Monday afternoon the Inspector.

General who oversees usaid issued a. report on the impact of the Trump. administration's near total shutdown of. the agency's. operations among the findings was that. nearly half a billion dollars worth of. emergency food assistance much of it. supplied by us Farmers is now at risk of. spoiling inside ports and warehouses. across the. [Music].

world we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to day on. Monday the Trump Administration told. Federal prosecutors to drop sweeping. corruption charges against New York city. mayor a Adams who has made repeated.

attempts to Curry favor with the new. president since his. inauguration Adams was indicted for. allegedly abusing his power to obtain. free travel and for accepting a legal. campaign. contributions the order to drop those. charges raises new questions about the. independence of federal prosecutors. under Trump and whether those close to. the president will be given preferential. treatment by his Department of. [Music].

Justice and in his latest trade maneuver. Trump has imposed 25% tariffs on steel. and aluminum imported from every us. trading partner the tariffs are likely. to please domestic metal makers but. significantly increase costs for us. companies that make items like cars. planes and food packaging and it could. spark trade Wars that may bring a. variety of retaliatory tariffs against.

the. [Music]. US today's episode was produced by Nina. Feldman and Michelle Banja it was edited. by Mark. George contains original music by Pat. mccusker Maran Lozano and Diane Wong and. was engineered by Alysa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim runberg and M lansberg. of wonder. [Music].

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm. Michael see you tomorrow. [Music].