The Cracking of the Trump Coalition

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie. [music] Kitroeff. This is The Daily. >> [music]. >> In the years since Donald Trump [music]. roared back to power, one of the most. surprising story lines of his second. term [music] has been a series of. increasingly public ruptures between the. president and the movement he created. On everything from affordability [music]. to foreign wars, key figures on the.

right are now daring to challenge. Trump's priorities and his [music]. effectiveness. Today, my colleague Robert Draper on the. growing tensions inside the MAGA. movement and what they tell [music] us. about what the American right might look. like in a post-Trump world. >> [music].

>> It's Thursday, December 11th. >> [music]. >> Robert, hi. Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for having me. So, we're coming to you because for several. years now, you've been reporting. extensively on the right. And as a part. of that, you spent a lot of time with. some of the key figures in the MAGA. movement, some of whom have started to. openly speak out against the president. And so, we're hoping you can help us.

understand what's been happening in the. relationship between President Trump and. his movement, which until recently. looked pretty unshakable. Yeah, in a sense, Natalie, what's taking. place is in step with what historically. has transpired with presidencies that. after a certain period, a president. begins to take on the appearance of. being a lame duck. He no longer is in. full control of the agenda and the party.

begins to look at life after him. But, typically, that has taken place after. the midterms, after a two-year period. And so, what's really notable is that. this president is now just 10 to 11. months in, beginning to show the signs. of weakness that historically we. associate with a lame duck, when in. fact, he should not be a lame duck. >> Right. And alongside that, it's also.

notable [snorts]. that President Trump, like no other. political figure before him in recent. memory, at least, has exerted a real. stranglehold over his party. The party's. philosophy, the party's governing. ideology has been whatever President. Trump has said it will be. That has. started to change, and the fact that. people are daring, and and let's be. clear, not everyone is, but that anyone. is beginning to voice objections or take.

exception to President Trump's governing. philosophy. is something very new. So, the fact that. it's happening at all, and the fact that. it's happening so early, are both. unusual features that were, I don't. think, in any way expected when this. president first took his oath in. January. Right, it does strike me as, honestly, stunning, because it feels as though. just a few months ago we were thinking. of this president really as as.

all-powerful, as kind of invincible. He. was swept in with this mandate. He was. taking executive actions left and right. And very quickly, you're saying he's now. being seen within his own party as. vulnerable, it sounds like. That's. right. And when President Trump took his. second oath of office, there were people. on the right proclaiming this the golden. era of America. They really believed. that nothing would be impossible with. this president. But, that began to.

change, however, in the late summer, when we began to see prominent. conservative influencers dared to go off. message from administration policy and, in fact, outright contradict what the. administration's preferred policy was. And so, in doing so, they began, implicitly, to announce that the. president was no longer omnipotent and. to presage a kind of vulnerability in.

this administration. Okay, so, take us back to that time. during the late summer when this started. to emerge. When did all of this start to. feel distinct to you? Yeah, I can place a date on it. That. date is September 10th of this year, when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Kirk, the head of Turning Point USA, was. not only a conservative activist, but a. confidant of the president. And to be. clear, Natalie, there were already.

fissures in the movement. There was. disquiet over the president's. intransigence regarding his refusal to. release the Epstein files. Yep. >> There was concern relating to the. president's decision to bomb nuclear. facilities in Iran. And Charlie Kirk was. unable to tamp down altogether those. growing concerns. I want to try to. address the issue that many people in. our audience are emailing us about. I'm.

of course talking about the Epstein. situation. What Kirk was able to do was. to modulate criticisms of the president. >> Everyone knows my opinion about the. Epstein thing. I I I would love to see. the DOJ move to unseal the grand jury. testimony. I think that would be a big. win. To say externally, I think that we. should release the Epstein files. And. once it became evident to Kirk where the. president stood on this, that he didn't. want to hear right-wing influencers.

talking about the subject of Epstein. anymore, Kirk was able to expertly pivot. away from him pressing for the release. of the files to saying, I'm going to. trust. Kash Patel, Dan Bongino, J.D. Vance. It's their ball. It's their possession. I have full faith in the. administration's ability to look into. this matter. I've said my peace. And. that viewpoint became the prevailing. talking point amongst figures on the. right. I'm going to trust my friends in.

the government to do what needs to be. done. I've said So, this was the unique. skill of Kirk to enforce a kind of. discipline in the overall message of the. right. People looked to Kirk in that. regard. And correspondingly then, when. he was gunned down on September the. 10th, that discipline almost immediately. began to give way. And without him, it. began to feel like the conservative. movement or the MAGA movement was not so.

much cast adrift, but reverberating with. all of these tensions. So, Robert, where do you first see the. impact of that loss on MAGA? Like, what's the first example of these. divisions that were bubbling up starting. to spill out in the open after Kirk's. death? I think the first. moment at which these discontents, disagreements became very public was.

when Tucker Carlson hosted on his show. the white nationalist Nick Fuentes. Fuentes had been considered a sort of. verboten figure in the conservative. movement, a guy they very much wanted to. keep at the margins because he has. casually issued some unabashedly. anti-Semitic and racist and sexist. commentary. He has suggested that. [clears throat] the numbers don't add up. when it comes to 6 million Jews.

perishing in the Holocaust. He has said. outright that blacks were better off. under Jim Crow than they are today. He. has made all sorts of obnoxious. statements regarding women and how they. should. essentially be used as chattel. And most. of all, he has not just spoken. critically of Israel in the Israeli. government, but he has honed in on what. he calls the problem of organized Jewry.

in America and has been unapologetic in. his belief that Jews are a problem, unassimilable and incorrigible in their. unwillingness to assimilate, and that. that presents America with its foremost. problem. And so, for Carlson, who is. arguably the most influential. conservative voice. a person who remains very close to.

President Trump through the thick and. thin of their disagreements, and who is. especially close to Vice President J.D. Vance, to be offering Nick Fuentes an. opportunity to air his bigoted musings. was the reason why so many people viewed. this interview with great alarm. Let's just slow that down for a moment. Can you tell us about Nick Fuentes? Who. is he? Sure. Nick Fuentes is a.

27-year-old. right-wing influencer who had been more. or less on the scene since 2017. He was an early and loud supporter of. President Trump, but not one of any. particular consequence. In 2017, he. began to pop up in the media because at. the Unite the Right rally in. Charlottesville, Virginia, that included. the notorious chance, "You will not.

replace us. Jews will not replace us.". The torch carriers, yeah. Yes, Fuentes. was among them. So, he began to gain. some traction then, but by and large was held at bay from. the right, and that continued really to. be the case even when he had dinner with. Kanye West with President Trump at. Mar-a-Lago. These were the sort of. sporadic appearances by Fuentes, but he.

was still viewed as not a major figure. And yet, at the same time, right, Trump. didn't disavow Fuentes. He didn't. condemn him after that infamous lunch. He kind of said something like, "I. didn't know who this guy was. I didn't. invite him." But, there was no direct. disavowal. No, and that's a salient. point, Natalie. Trump's refusal to say, "And by the way, had I known, I would. never have brought him, you know, at. Mar-a-Lago.".

was very much in keeping with the. statements made by Marjorie Taylor. Greene, the congresswoman from Georgia, and Congressman Paul Gosar when each of. them in 2021 and 2022 appeared in Nick. Fuentes's America First conferences. So, what's going on here? Why the refusal to. condemn Fuentes outwardly? What that's. about is that they all recognize that. Fuentes, for whatever else he was or. wasn't, commanded a sizable following of.

young, male, almost entirely white, disaffected conservatives, which is a. key part of the Trump coalition. >> Mhm. And no one wished to condemn. Fuentes for fear of condemning his. followers. Right. They don't want to. kick him out of the tent. That's right. They want him out of the tent, but they. still want his people. And so, it's he's. presented the conservative movement with. something of a conundrum throughout. Mainly then, the view of Fuentes was,

hopefully, he will just go away, and. these young disaffected male. conservatives will find another big. brother figure. So, that was the state. of play until [snorts] around August and. early September of this year, when. Tucker Carlson happened to make a. sidelong comment about Fuentes on his. show saying that Fuentes was just some. kid living in his basement saying. obnoxious things. And Fuentes saw that.

as an opportunity to issue days and days. of rebuttals on his own podcast, which. in turn really ratcheted up his. following. >> Mhm. and brought attention not just to. Fuentes vis-à-vis Carlson, but Fuentes. in general. And all of the podcasters on. the right began to talk about this. dust-up between those two. And so, finally, Carlson himself decided. and was convinced, frankly, by people. who were friends of his who talked to. him and said, "You know, you're. underestimating this guy, Fuentes. He. actually has a really sizable.

following." And Carlson decided then to. have him on his show. Nick Fuentes, thank you for doing this. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. >> to meet you. I've heard about you. Mhm. I've heard about you. So, What? Thank. you. Um And it was this very sort of. genial 2 hours. You're one of those. people, one of the reasons I wanted to. meet you is you're one of those people. who is defined by clips. Yes. >> And I'm one of those people also. >> Yes. Yes. >> So, I get it, but in which Carlson, in. effect, slid the microphone in front of.

Fuentes and let him riff on. So, I'm. going to just shut up, and you tell me what you actually. believe. >> Yeah. Well, and and listen, I mean, and. I appreciate you saying that because. it's. that's just a reality of the media. environment we're in. So, if you I don't. expect you to know all my views, but I. mean, as far as the Jews are concerned, Now, why did Tucker Carlson do this? Well, you know, why. >> Yeah. That's my question, exactly. Sure. Well, and I think that the answer to. that, Natalie, is that he was finding.

common cause in Fuentes because Carlson. himself, over the past year, had become. increasingly anti-Israel, or as he would. put it, anti-Israeli government. I. always thought it's great to criticize. and it's question like our relationship. with Israel because it's insane and it. hurts us. We get nothing out of it. I. completely agree with you there. that. the Israeli government has been the tail. that has wagged the dog of American. affairs for far too long. I've always. thought I have the most world's most.

moderate position on Israel. Don't hate Israel. Just don't want to. get involved in their wars. Don't want. to pay for this. Don't want to pay for. abortion on demand in a foreign country. Sorry. When we're cutting food stamps on our. own, like that's outrageous. It's not. America first. while insisting that he. abhors anti-Semitism. What I do think is. bad, just objectively bad and. destructive, is the all Jews are guilty. or all anybody is guilty of anything cuz. that's just like not true. And but by. and large, he was very accommodating.

towards Fuentes's view, which was and is. unambiguously. anti-Semitic. Like I said, you cannot. actually divorce Israel and the neocons. and all all of those things that you. talk about from Jewishness. There had never really been anyone of. Tucker Carlson's stature who had spoken. to Fuentes before on the air. You're. clearly ascendant.

You're enormously talented. You're more. talented than I am, for sure, as a talker. And to give him. that kind of softball treatment Nick. Fuentes, thank you very much. Thank you. It's. nice to meet you. Likewise. It struck so many on the right as really. alarming and inappropriate. >> [music]. >> Tucker Carlson's a nobody. He got famous. on Fox. That's it. Mark Levin, the. right-wing broadcaster, denounced.

Carlson. Nick Fuentes is gum on the. bottom of our shoe. Tucker Carlson is a. bleeding hemorrhoid on the body politic. They're not MAGA. They're not. conservative. Today, Tucker Carlson is the most dangerous. anti-Semite in America. The congressman, Randy Fine, said as well that [music]. Carlson's remarks and his amiable. treatment of Fuentes had no place in the. conservative movement. Tucker is not.

MAGA. And in particular, the well-known. right-wing podcaster, Ben Shapiro of The. Daily Wire. Shapiro himself is an. Orthodox Jew. He made no bones about it. The issue here isn't that Tucker Carlson. had Nick Fuentes on his show last week. He has every right to do that, of. course. The issue here is that Tucker. Carlson decided to normalize and fluff. Nick Fuentes. This is anti-Semitism. It. is not cancellation to refuse to signal. boost Hitler's supporters like [music]. Nick Fuentes. It is not cancellation to.

criticize Tucker Carlson for. rhetorically fluffing Nick Fuentes and. other anti-American crackpots. >> [music]. >> So, this Tucker-Fuentes interview. obviously touched a nerve over divisions. on the question of the US relationship. with Israel and anti-Semitism and. whether there is tolerance for blatant. anti-Semitism in the conservative. movement. And I'm curious where Trump. sits in all of this, Robert, because.

he's obviously maintained a very close. alliance with Israel, but he's also been. known to have a meal with Nick Fuentes. So, where is Trump on this, and what. does this whole saga tell us about his. vulnerability on this issue? Yeah, it's a great question, Natalie. And on the one hand, I think that Trump. has been [clears throat] one of the most. pro-Israel presidents we've seen. On the. other hand, has at no point denounced.

Fuentes, nor for that matter has Vice. President J.D. Vance, despite the fact. that Fuentes has routinely insulted not. only Vance, but Vance's wife and her. family, who are from India. So, there is. a permission structure, seemingly, for. bigotry and anti-Semitism to be aired. out in the conservative movement, which. makes a lot of people on the right. uncomfortable. But, you mentioned. vulnerability, and I think this is an.

important thing to focus on, not just as. it relates to anti-Semitism, but also. how one interprets this administration's. priorities. When the president was. elected largely on keeping our attention. fixed to domestic issues. Now, Nick. Fuentes and Tucker Carlson are able to. reasonably assert that foreign. entanglements have intruded into and in. many ways disrupted those administration.

priorities, not just as regards Israel, but as regards Ukraine and as regards. Venezuela. And it sounds like it's. connected to a kind of broader question. that's being asked about Trump's. priorities in general. The focus on. foreign affairs, on foreign conflicts, to potentially the detriment of a focus. on domestic issues. Yes. So, I I talked to Tucker Carlson.

about this when I spent a few hours with. him in November. And Carlson had a theory on this, and he. said, "Look, the truth is is that. President Trump is realizing how. difficult it is to solve a lot of these. intractable domestic issues, particularly as it relates to. affordability. You know, you can you can. talk about the price of eggs or. something or even the price of gas, but. overall there is a real affordability. crisis in America and it's tough to do.

anything about that. Carlson said that. by contrast, you know, you can go bomb a. nuclear site in Iran knowing Iran. probably isn't going to do anything. about it and you can look heroic and you. can look powerful. And so Trump for all. of his own focus historically on. domestic problems is now realizing it's. easier to be god-like in the foreign. policy arena than at home. Right. I mean, there's a political logic. to what Carlson is saying here. One of.

the main issues driving Trump's election. was the economy. And so I imagine. there's a lot of people who feel like. they voted for him because they expected. Trump as president to have a laser-like. focus on pocketbook issues rather than. on mediating conflicts in far-flung. places, which is something he's done a. lot of in his first year. Right, but in. raising that point Natalie, what you're. doing is essentially. introducing what I think is an important.

distinction and that is the distinction. between two slogans by President Trump, MAGA, Make America Great Again, and. America First. So Make America Great. Again is basically a campaign slogan. It's inextricably tied to President. Trump. I mean, everyone kind of. understands that what it means is like. America wasn't great when Obama was. president. It became great when Trump. became president. It became terrible. again when Biden was president. Now it's. great again because of Trump. It's to.

put it bluntly a personality cult. notion, but it is finally a slogan. America First is a principle and. defining what America First is is the. kind of thing that's subject to useful. ideological argument. >> Mhm. I think that Tucker Carlson and. perhaps just as much Congresswoman. Marjorie Taylor Greene have been at the. forefront of saying, "Look, America. First principles have been laid out. They have been commonly understood by.

conservatives, by voters of President. Trump and now the Trump administration. has been wayward, has veered off of. those commitments to Americans.". And at the same time, you know, spending money on things that. a lot of people took issue with. A. ballroom, for example. Yes, that his own. actions seem to be at variance with his. pledges to put Americans first.

And it's this cognitive dissonance that. began to result in another noticeable. fracture in the party, particularly with. Marjorie Taylor Greene. And we will talk about her right after. the break. We'll be right back. >> [music].

>> Robert, you brought up Congresswoman. Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia and. her evolution really feels emblematic of. this break with Trump that we're. starting to see among some on the right. Obviously, she became famous for being. one of Trump's closest allies and now. she has since announced her resignation.

from office and said pretty explicitly. that Trump is betraying the movement. So. let's talk about this journey that. Marjorie Taylor Greene has been on. I mean, Natalie, it is a singular. journey. It represents the most extreme. case of a MAGA loyalist becoming a. dissenting voice to the Trump. administration. But having said that, I. do think that it does reflect in a. broader sense this evolution from. everyone singing with precision from the.

MAGA hymnal to now striking discordant. notes and that is [clears throat]. so remarkable given how unflagging a. supporter Greene was of Trump. She. arrived in Washington in early January. of 2021 freshly elected with an. unapologetically. pro-Trump campaign platform expecting. that she would be part of facilitating. President Trump's second term. Instead,

she arrived just a couple of days before. January the 6th with Trump having been. defeated and at a time on the heels of. the Capitol riot when a lot of. Republicans wanted to distance. themselves from the defeated former. president, Marjorie Taylor Greene was. the most vociferous defender of Trump. really in Washington. >> Right. And continued to be so throughout. his campaign in 2024. When he was at the.

Republican National Convention, she sat. by his side on the second day in the. presidential booth and was pledging that. Trump was a gift from God and that she. viewed him in kind of these theological. proportions as someone who would be. saving America. So the beginning of. Trump's second term saw Marjorie Taylor. Greene unflaggingly by his side. But. then alongside her own arc regarding. Trump was her own experience in Congress.

when she became increasingly. disillusioned with her own party that. once it had power didn't really do. anything with it. And she began to think. maybe of running for something else, perhaps senator, perhaps governor of. Georgia and far from getting any. encouragement, the Trump White House. basically threw a wet blanket over that. She told me that she felt like all of. her loyalty to Trump was amounting to a. one-way street. >> It wasn't being rewarded. >> That's correct. Yes. And And so that.

sets the stage then I think for what. began to happen over the last two or. three months where she began to be. increasingly disillusioned not just with. the Republican Party, but with President. Trump himself. And I think that one real flashpoint was. Trump's refusal to release the Epstein. files. This had become an article of. faith amongst the right. The one thing. they could all agree on was that Jeffrey. Epstein was the most heinous sex. trafficker in America. And so to see now.

Trump hedging and then saying stop. talking about Epstein, there's no there. there was outrageous to her. Then during the government shutdown, she. began to go home and she'd talk to her. constituents and they'd say, you know, "Housing is still unaffordable. Groceries are still unaffordable. We. thought that the president was going to. do something about this. And why by the. way is he spending all this money in. Israel? And we're seeing this horrible. footage of what's taking place in Gaza.". Greene told me that she began to hear. the G word, genocide, >> Mhm. by her own constituents and Greene.

became the first prominent Republican to. describe what was taking place in Gaza. as a genocide. So Greene began to voice. her concerns very publicly and it's not. just that she voiced them, but it's. where she voiced them. >> [music]. >> For the very first time on The View, we. are joined by someone you might be. surprised to see here. She went on The. View. Please welcome Congresswoman. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Which is largely regarded as a a.

left-leaning show and the specter of. this right-wing MAGA warrior being on a. show like that was a rather remarkable. one and one frankly that people on the. set of The View were surprised that. I. spoke to one of them who had said that. they were suspecting that Greene would. come in loaded for bear and just rip. into all of them and once again talk. about how great Trump was. Look, I'm. with women, so I feel very comfortable. saying this. I'm really tired of the.

pissing contest in Washington, D.C. between the men. I I really am. They were not prepared at all for this. really very accommodating individual. >> And I feel like the government has. failed all of us and it it purely. disgusts me. Who said, "Look, things. have gotten overheated in today's. politics." I represent a district that. is rural manufacturing district, blue-collar workers and people have been. crushed by decades of failure in. Washington, D.C. And so I have no.

problem pointing fingers at everyone. And. one by one Maybe she'll become a. Democrat, Marjorie. I feel like I'm sitting next to a. completely different Marjorie Taylor. Greene. The co-hosts on the air. expressed astonishment that this was the. Marjorie Taylor Greene they were seeing. >> [music]. >> And in addition to The View, Greene was. speaking to other media outlets. Here's. my issue. I'm America First and I don't.

apologize for that and I believe. Congress, both Democrats and. Republicans, should be serving the. American people. Though what she had to say during these. interviews wasn't openly critical of the. administration, implicitly she was. striking a note of disagreement. When. you campaign on America First, it's like. having a restaurant advertising like a. certain type of food and then you don't. deliver America First, you're not going. to have those return customers.

I don't know what happened to Marjorie. She's a nice woman, but I don't know. what happened. She's lost her way, I. think. And it clearly got under. President Trump's skin. Mhm. Somebody. like Marjorie Taylor Greene who's now. catering to the other side. I don't know. what, you know, I guess she's, you know, got some kind of an act going, but I'm. surprised at her. But, when somebody. like. >> [clears throat]. >> Marjorie goes over and starts making. statements like that, it shows she. doesn't know. The great umbrage that he. took was expressed finally.

>> Tonight, disagreements between President. Trump and one of his most reliable and. vocal supporters in Congress have taken. an ugly turn. With a posting that he. made on Truth Social. "Marjorie Traitor. Green is a disgrace to our great. Republican Party." [music] he wrote on. social media. In which he called her. Marjorie Traitor Green, belittled her. "I can't take a ranting lunatics call. every day." end quote. And said that she. was always trying to call him, but that. he had no time for this, that she was.

pouting because he hadn't been. supportive of her political ambitions, but now he not only had had enough of. her. The president even suggested he'd. be open to backing a challenger to her. seat in Congress. He alluded to the. distinct likelihood that he would try to. find a Trump loyalist who would primary. her in her congressional race in 2026. >> [music]. >> Yeah, I mean, this was a pretty frontal. attack by Trump. So, how does Green.

respond? She was deeply upset, most of. all by the label of her as a traitor. And of course, the implication was that. she was a traitor not just to President. Trump, but to the MAGA movement, but a. traitor to America. And she was really. outraged by that. What she also reacted. to was a torrent of death threats that. came in. This, in a sense, was not new to Green. She had gotten death threats really from.

early on in taking office. She was being. doxxed, lots of things like that were. happening. They were all happening from. the left, however. Now, she was getting. attacks from what she often described as. her favorite president. Her favorite. president was unleashing, in her view, these threats. And it's not just that the threats were. levied against her, they were levied. against her own children. And her. children were named. I know this because. Green told me that and said she was. terrified. So, it was really, really. alarming and scary for her. Wow. And uh.

so, this was I was getting all these. texts, by the way, you know, from. friends of mine in the political world. saying, "She's rebranding herself. What. is this about?" And and what is your. sense about what these appearances were. really about? Were they driven by the. feedback she was getting from her. constituents? Was it something else? Yes, I the former. Tinged also with the. belief of, "What the hell, I've got. nothing to lose. Since when has my. unflagging loyalty paid off for me?" It. hasn't. So, she felt somewhat liberated.

from her allegiances to President Trump, but I think alongside that, she truly. believed what she was saying. She truly. had heard what her constituents had been. telling her, that they were, like her, taking the president's principle of. America First not just seriously, but. literally. You know, they were saying, "Hang on, how is it America First to be. um not just supporting Ukraine, but also. Israel? Do we not care about women. who've been victimized by the rich and. powerful? And meanwhile, things are.

still expensive. Why isn't the president. out there every day doing something. about this?" These were the tenets of. America First that they believed the. president would be addressing, that. Marjorie Taylor Green was certain he. would be addressing. But, she now began. to have doubts, in part because she was. hearing her constituents raise those. very same doubts. And not long after, Hi everyone. She announces that she's going to. resign. That's correct.

I've always represented the common. American man and woman as a member of. the House of Representatives, which is. why I've always been despised in. Washington, D.C. and [music] just never. fit in. She did a video that she posted. on X. I ran for Congress in 2020 and. have fought every single day believing. that Make America Great Again meant. America First. It was a posting that took even her. close allies by surprise. America First. should mean America First and only. Americans First, with no other foreign.

country ever being attached to America. First in our halls of government. It. became, I think, obvious to most, if not. all, that it was really her. renouncing a movement that had strayed. from its core America First principle. I. do not want my sweet district to have to. endure a hurtful and hateful primary. against me by the president that we all. fought for. And that she would be.

fighting, if she were to be reelected, on behalf of a president who now. disliked her and who had done her great. injury, but also who no longer was the. embodiment of America First. And so, what was the point of [music] that? I have to ask, Robert, isn't the fact that Green stepped down. over this dust-up a sign that Trump is.

actually stronger politically than we. maybe thinking? I mean, I think a lot of. people might see this incident as him. winning. He still, at the end of the. day, had the political weight to drive. one of his critics out of political. office. Historically, that has been the. case, just as you've described it, Natalie, that this is a show of Trump's. power. But, to say that now would be to. ignore the atmospherics, that all of. this is taking place at a point in which.

Trump's approval rating is near the. lowest that it's ever been. At a time. when people on the right, like Tucker. Carlson, are beginning to, you know, speak with. a great deal of bluntness, with real. candor, about the Trump administration's. misguided priorities. So, if this was. just crushing the one lone dissenter and. everybody then issuing a chorus on the. right of good riddance to her, we all. love President Trump, it'd be one thing,

but that's not actually what's taken. place. She simply said, "Trump's White. House is not doing what they said they. were going to do." And that sentiment is. one that is beginning to gain a lot of. traction on the right. It's extending to. the Trump coalition that got him. reelected in 2024. I don't think that. his hardcore base has deserted him. But, the bottom is really fallen out of his. support amongst independents, and they. were key to his victory, as were young.

people and black males and Latino males. as well. Now, whether it's because of their own. experiences or because they happen to be. listening to Tucker Carlson, to Nick. Fuentes, and to other influencers, or a. combination, the polling data clearly. shows that these people who were so. crucial to Trump's victory in 2024 are. starting to move away from him in. really, really significant numbers. And. so, even if his core base remains.

steadfast, the clear and present danger. for the Trump administration is that he. no longer has a solid coalition of the. type that brought him victory. I just want to say hello, Pennsylvania, and I'm thrilled to be back. >> [cheering]. >> It is incredible. >> Robert, I want to end by asking if you. get the sense that Trump is actually. listening, perhaps, to the concerns that.

are being raised by voters and by people. like Marjorie Taylor Green. He's just. kicked off this new domestic tour, the. purpose of which is to go around the. country and talk about issues of. affordability. paychecks, you're getting. lower prices, bigger paychecks, we're getting. >> And that does feel like an. acknowledgement in some sense that he. knows he has a problem here. Yes, it's. true. He certainly absorbed this. I. think that his testiness has been on.

full display. They said, "He should be. traveling. He should focus on home.". What the hell do you think I'm doing? The posture is not one of, "Voters, I. hear you. I feel your pain." Far from. it. Instead, he has been dismissive of. the word affordability. They use the. word affordability, and that's their only word. They say, "Affordability.". But, I think most of all, Natalie, what. has annoyed Trump is that his voters had.

been generally trusting of everything. that Trump said he was doing or was. about to do during his first 100 days. But, the anxieties that his constituents. are feeling is now impossible to hide, and I think that that has created a real. defensiveness with Trump. You know, the. stupid people, they say, "He should be. leaving our country." Yeah, let's sit. around and twiddle our thumbs. So, will this tour that Trump is.

embarking on help mend the schisms in. the Republican Party and restore him as. the one and only voice in the. conservative movement? Possibly. But, I do think that what we've seen. take place. is an emergence of voices who dare to. hold the president accountable to his. America First pledge. And as various. people joust over just what that pledge.

should be, the fractures that ensue are really. going to be impossible to heal. It's hard to imagine. what would happen to bring all of those. pieces back together? Well, Robert, thank you so much for your. time. Sure thing, Natalie. >> [music]. >> We'll be right back. >> [music].

>> Here's what else you need to know today. It's been a an interesting day. from the standpoint of news. President Trump announced Wednesday. afternoon that the US had seized an oil. tanker off the coast of Venezuela. Large. tanker, very large. Largest one ever seized, actually. The seizure was a clear escalation in. the administration's pressure [music]. campaign against Nicolas Maduro, the.

president of Venezuela. Trump didn't offer any additional. details about the operation, [music] but. US officials who spoke on the condition. of anonymity said the action was the. result of deliberate planning and that. there were no casualties. And the Federal Reserve voted on. Wednesday to lower interest rates by a. quarter of a percentage [music] point. It was the fourth straight vote in a row. that wasn't backed by all members, a. mark [music] of just how fractured the. central bank has become as it struggles.

to balance the risks of rising. unemployment [music] and sticky. inflation. >> [music]. >> Today's episode was produced by Caitlyn. O'Keefe and Eric Krupke with help from. Alex [music] Stern. It was edited by Rachel Quester with. help from Paige Cowett. Fact-checked by. Susan Lee. Contains music by Marion. Lozano, Alicia Eubanks, Dan Powell, and. Diane Wong and was engineered [music]. by Chris Wood.

That's it for The Daily. [music] I'm. Natalie Kitroeff. See you tomorrow.