The Closing Arguments in the Trump Trial

first. floor it's Tuesday it's 6:09 a.m. walking out of my. apartment to return to the. courthous. today we get closing. arguments to some extent we know what. the prosecution is going to say we know. their case the prosecution has a.

coherent story but we haven't heard an. alternative. Theory so this. morning Todd blanch Trump's lawyer is. going to try and give that alternate. Theory you see doubt with a good. story what's that story going to. be we'll find out pretty soon. [Music].

from The New York Times I'm Michael. boaro this is the. daily on Tuesday lawyers for the. prosecution and the defense delivered. their final arguments to the jury in the. criminal case of the people of the state. of New York versus Donald J. Trump as always my colleague Jonah. bramwit was there.

it's Wednesday May. [Music]. 29th hello hello how's it. going oh look at that yes we have a we. have a modest dinner prepared for you. beautiful I know well you've. been you've been at it since 6:00 a.m. court ran till 8: what's a guy to do for. dinner thank you.

are you ready I'm ready shall we start. let's. start Jonah this was a very big day in a. very big trial yeah this trial has been. happening for about a month and a half. at this point and it feels like every. time I come in here or in any way. communicate with the readers and. listeners and viewers of the New York. Times we talk about what a remarkable. day it was but of course this is. closings I mean this is a huge huge day.

it's the last time the lawyers get to. address the jury and for the defense. lawyers in particular it's a day that. comes with really serious Stakes because. this case has been really prosecution. driven right they've charged Donald. Trump with falsifying business records. 34 times and they've charged Trump with. a conspiracy to suppress negative news. about himself to Aid his path to victory. in the 2016 election and the falsified. documents were meant to cover up. prosecutors say that conspiracy to.

suppress that negative news so we've. heard about all that 20 Witnesses from. the prosecution only two from the. defense and the prosecution I think it's. safe to say is put together this really. tight understandable script they have a. story that the jurors know well at this. point M and so the defense of course has. questioned the prosecution's witnesses. and they've talked about some of the. prosecution's evidence but they really. are working off a script that they. didn't themselves write and so on. Tuesday the defense finally got a chance. to take that script and rewrite as they.

seek during their closing argument to. convince the jurors that they should not. convict Donald Trump so take us into the. courtroom for this closing argument from. the defense and how it was that they. tried finally to rewrite this script so. let me just make one point before I do. that so the defense has a different. burden in the prosecution the. prosecution has to prove their case. Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and the. defense only has to pick off really. realistically one juror convinc that. that he or she should not convict so one.

of the reasons we haven't seen a. coherent story from the defense is. because they don't have that burden. right still closing arguments are this. really important point where the defense. can mount exactly that a story that will. be remembered by the jurors so in the. courtroom today Todd blanch the lead. lawyer and for Donald Trump goes up the. lecturn and he begins in the same place. where he began his opening statement. weeks and weeks ago he says quote. president Trump is innocent he did not. commit any crimes and the district.

attorney has not met their burden of. proof. period and from there he begins to. expand and to introduce it seems like at. that point What's going to be a pretty. structured defense closing and it has. these three distinct pillars which are. the first is that for all the Flash and. Sizzle of the prosecution case which is. about a porn star and a presidential. election blanch reminds yours this is a. documents case this is about falsifying.

business records so he seems to be. saying ignore that flash that's not what. this is about second he says Trump had. nothing to do with those documents the. documents were first produced by Michael. Cohen who sent invoices to the Trump. organization in order to be as a. reminder reimbursed for the hush money. payment he made to sty Daniels in order. to keep the relationship she says she. had with Trump secret from the voting. public yes and so the defense says that. Trump was in DC this whole time while.

these documents were being generated. because of course Donald Trump was the. president of the United States he was. doing that job how could he have found. the time the defense argues to produce. what prosecutors say are false documents. and have any significant interaction. with them and then finally the third. pillar of the defense closing argument. and the one that we've seen throughout. the trial is attack Michael Cohen. because you can't trust Michael Cohen. when he test testified for instance that.

Trump directed him to make the hush. money payment and you can't trust. Michael Cohen when he testified that in. January 2017 Trump signed off on the. scheme to disguise the reimbursements as. reimbursements for Legal Services rather. than what they really are which is a. reimbursement for a hush money payment. to a porn star then you can't trust the. defenses arguing the prosecution's case. and the whole thing falls apart like. alarts H okay those sound like three. highly logical pillars of a defense.

closing argument so how does the defense. try to lay those three pillars out and. how do they actually end up laying them. out in this closing argument so on that. first pillar that blanch identified. where he's saying that it's a paper case. he refers to the documents that. prosecutors say are false and what. blanch says is no Michael Cohen was. being paid for legal services this. wasn't a reimbursement this wasn't. anything shady this was a personal. lawyer to Donald J Trump who in 2017 was.

paid for being a personal lawyer to. Donald J Trump interesting so that's the. first pillar so then he moves to the. second pillar and blanch just distances. Trump from these documents he says that. Trump was busy running the country being. the leader of the Free World and that. most of these documents really didn't. have anything to do with him they were. being generated by Michael Cohen or they. were being generated by the Trump. organization there's even this issue of. the nine checks that Trump signed. himself and blanch dismisses those. because Trump was President as well he.

says well Trump may have signed those. but he was doing lots of stuff meeting. with heads of state he may not have paid. close attention to those checks that he. signed H this is meant to go toward. Trump's intent and the fact that jurors. can't really know what Trump was. thinking but this is where this closing. argument I think starts to go a little. bit off the rails because the. prosecutors have introduced a lot of. evidence including evidence from books. that Trump himself wrote that Trump pays. very close attention to the inflow and.

outflow of money both from the Trump. organization and from his personal. accounts he even wrote in his books that. he likes signing his own checks because. he likes to pay close attention to them. and mateline westerhout who was an. executive assistant to Trump at the. White House has also testified that. Trump dealt with his personal finances. even from the Oval Office so even as. blanch is working on that second pillar. the jurors may be thinking to themselves. hm this doesn't quite match what I've.

heard in this trial so far interesting. then he moves on to the third and final. pillar and this is his comfort zone. attacking Michael Cohen is where Todd. blanch likes to live the jurors have. heard him do that throughout the trial. and they're going to hear him do it. again he tells him they can't trust. Michael Cohen that he's lied in the past. and then there's this one phone call. that they say Cohen has lied about that. they really harp on Cohen says that he. called Trump on October 24th through the. phone of trump tr's bodyguard Keith.

Schiller and on that call Cohen has. testified he told Trump that he had. dealt with some arrangement related to. the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. but the defense has already tried to. convince the jury during testimony that. Cohen was talking to Schiller not Trump. and that he was talking to Schiller not. about the hush money payment but about. being bullied by a teenager there was. some 14-year-old harassing and prank. calling Cohen and he called Schiller to. complain about it weird and so Cohen has. claimed no no no I talked to them both. and just said no the call was too short.

you're lying and he says that again in. closing arguments he reminds the jurors. of this sequence and he says Michael. Cohen lied to you about talking to Trump. that evening through Keith Schiller's. phone and committed perjury at this very. trial H and then he kind of veers into. this Sports metaphor world first he. calls Cohen the MVP of liars that's the. most valuable player of liars and. apparently liking that line he then. introduces another one so a newer Sports.

term than MVP is goat greatest of all. time right greatest of all time and so. blanch introduces that concept he says. Tom Brady for instance is the goat and. he says Michael Cohen is the gloat he's. the greatest liar of all time H so. blanch here coins the phrase gloat and. seems to be kind of gloating about it. yeah but it's really important that Todd. blanch do this and there's a reason that. he's attacking Co in all these different. ways he's trying to use humor humor he's.

trying to use argument and the reason. this is so important is something that. blanch just says straight out in the. middle of his closing argument he tells. the jurors that they cannot convict. president Trump of any crime Beyond A. Reasonable Doubt on the word of Michael. Cohen Michael Cohen is the only witness. Who provided direct testimony that Trump. had signed off on disguising. reimbursements to him as legal payments. right so without that evidence the. prosecution is in a bit of a tougher.

spot and it behooves the defense to. drive home as hard as they can and to. really Bear Down on Michael Cohen's. importance to the case right I mean. they're literally saying if he's the. gloat if he's the greatest liar of all. time then the prosecution has no case. yeah okay so Jonah how is this all. Landing with the jury pillars one two. and three well we had initially thought. that those were going to be the tent. Poes of this argument but pillar one and.

pillar two those seem to kind of slide. away and what we're left with is these. attacks over and over again on Michael. Cohen and so by the end of the defense's. closing argument the jurors are really. left with not the cohesive narrative. from the defense that we might have. expected that they would provide in. their closing argument but with this. single idea you can't trust Michael. Cohen right it's not a fullsome rich. alternative story which as you said.

earlier was the opportunity the defense. really had here why do you think the. defense didn't Avail itself of the. opportunity to tell such a story that's. a really good question and I think it's. a hard question to answer when I think. about Todd blanch and the job he has to. do in this trial I think about these. four points that he has to focus on. every time he's in the courtroom there's. the judge in front of him there's the. jury to his right there's the. prosecution his opponents a little. closer to his right and then sitting. right to his left is former president. presid Donald Trump and as Todd blanch.

tries to Pivot between convincing the. jurors contesting the prosecution. appeasing the judge and making sure that. his client notoriously difficult client. Donald Trump is happy I think it's. possible that he might just be. hamstringing himself because one. argument works for Trump but it doesn't. work for the jury or one argument. contests The prosecution really well but. the judge wants nothing to do with it so. it's really hard to kind of navigate. these four points it's not even. triangulate it's you know quadrangula or.

something like that that's maybe to me. why blanch doesn't really have this. coherent narrative instead he settles on. something that for him seems to solve. all four problems the judge will let him. attack Cohen Trump loves when he attacks. Cohen right the prosecution is angry. when he attacks Cohen because he is a. key witness for them and hopefully. blanch thinks the jury will be convinced. by these attacks on. [Music]. Cohen but Michael Cohen is just one. witness. and the problem with focusing on him.

with having this kind of oneline. argument Michael Cohen is a liar and you. can't trust him is that when the. prosecutors are about to tell this long. story that they're going to back up with. tons of documentary evidence and tons of. testimony that didn't come from Michael. Cohen will that single attack on Michael. Cohen will that stick in juror's heads. and produce the reasonable doubt that. the defense needs to do everything it. can to get. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back Jonah you just said that the. thinness of the defenses argument. relying so much on Michael Cohen's.

veracity left it vulnerable to a strong. closing argument from the prosecution. what was that. closing the prosecution namely Joshua. steinglass the prosecutor is going to. deliver this closing he steps to the. lectern and what he essentially tells. the jury is you don't have to rely on. Michael Cohen we have 19 other Witnesses. and these are not random people we. summoned off the street these are people. who are in Trump's orbit many of them. are still loyal to Donald Trump Trump. and yet bit by bit piece by piece they.

also offer testimony that is really. damning to Donald Trump so one witness. that he really sticks with for a long. time is David pecker who in 2015 is the. publisher of the national inquire and. you'll remember is one member of what. prosecutors say was a conspiracy to. suppress negative stories about Trump. during the election that involved Trump. Cohen and David Becker right so David. pecker he says clearly implicates Trump. in fact David pecker says that he had.

multiple conversations with Trump and. there was at least one of those. conversations in which Trump just. acknowledges having known about this. scheme to pay hush money to people who. had damaging stories so David pecker is. a great witness for prosecutors to. identify and say ignore Cohen look at. this guy another witness that. prosecutors gesture at you know don't. look at Michael Cohen look at this other. witness over here is hop hick and H hick. was Trump's campaign spokeswoman and. later spokeswoman for him when he was in.

the white house and there's a couple of. pieces of hicks testimony that they draw. on now Hicks is still loyal to Trump she. teared up on the stand right and yet. prosecutors say she still gave damning. evidence against her former boss so one. thing that she testifies about is Trump. having told her at one point that it's a. good thing that the news of the hush. money payment to Stormy Daniels did not. come out during the 2016 election now. this is kind of gold for the prosecution. because the defense has tried to argue.

oh Trump may have wanted to hide the. stormy Daniel story but if he did it was. just to protect his family but Joshua. Ste glass the prosecutor says that by. saying to Hope hick that he's happy that. it at least did not come out during the. election Trump is making his motivation. plain and reinforcing what prosecutors. say was his reason for entering that. conspiracy with David pecker and Michael. Cohen in the first place this would seem. to do a lot of work to state of a jury. you don't have to rely on Michael Cohen. but as we've established through out the. coverage of this trial with you Jonah.

Cohen is very important to the. prosecution so how does the prosecution. rebut the idea that the defense has said. in its closing that you simply cannot. trust anything Cohen has said well I. think the best illustration of it. actually has to do with that phone call. that Michael Cohen placed to Keith. Schiller to talk to Donald Trump about. arranging some detail of the hush money. payment to stormmy Daniels right which. was too short the defense said to have. actually happened right Cohen says that. he talked to Schiller about the kid.

bullying him and then he also talked to. Trump and the defense says yeah that. there's no way that happened but the. prosecutor Joshua Stein glass he doesn't. just argue against that what he does is. he takes a cell phone and he hits the. timer on that cell phone so that the. stopwatch is running mhm and then he. pretends to be Michael Cohen and he. pretends to call Keith Schiller and then. with plenty of silences with plenty of. pauses ask asks Keith Schiller to hand.

the phone to Trump and Joshua Stein. glass playing Michael Cohen tells Trump. that he has dealt with this hush money. Arrangement that Cohen says that he had. dealt with and then finally Stein class. is done he hangs up the phone and he. stops the stopwatch and it's somewhere. around like 45 seconds H and the records. for the phone call that Cohen had with. Schiller are almost twice as long wow as. what Stein glass has just done so what. Stein glass has clearly just shown the. jury is there was plenty of time for.

Michael Cohen to have called Trump's. bodyguard had a weird conversation about. a pranking 14-year-old and then also. gotten Trump on the line to talk about. paying off Stormy Daniels in fact it. seems like there was still time to spare. so this is a very clever and Theatrical. way of cening what the defense has said. about this call yeah he doesn't just. argue it he shows it and he shows it in. this memorable funny way that I think. could really help to dismantle what the.

defense has clearly seen as one of its. best arguments everything you're. describing so far sounds like the. prosecution being pretty responsive to. the defense closing argument how if at. all is the prosecution selling its own. story and its own testimony that it. gathered during this trial what they do. is they just put together this very. structured very organized timeline that. Joshua Stein glass is talking about as.

he's making this closing argument and so. he proceeds from August 2015 when. prosecutors say the conspiracy was. formed into 2016 October 2016 when the. hush money payment to Daniels was made. and in that October section in. particular he slows way down and we just. see reams of documentary evidence phone. calls between all the main players Trump. pecker Michael Cohen Keith Davidson who. was stormy daniels's lawyer at the time.

Dylan Howard who was an editor at the. national inquire not only are we seeing. these people talking to each other but. we're seeing events play out in real. time so something happens in the. campaign for instance the Access. Hollywood tape gets released this is a. problem for the Trump campaign and. suddenly stormy daniels's Story another. potential sex scandal in Waiting is a. lot more urgent for them to deal with. and so as Joshua Stein glass is telling. us about this all of which took place in. October 2016 we're seeing all the.

related phone calls between those key. players as Cohen realizes he has to deal. with the story and he starts contacting. heith Davidson and he starts contacting. Donald Trump everything that Joshua. Stein glass is arguing here is not just. relying on Cohen's testimony Cohen's. testimony is this one strand of a really. intricate colorful detailed packed. sequence that the prosecutors lay out. sometimes could feel almost overwhelming. and I just want to make sure that I'm.

highlighting the contrast here because. it was really Stark in the. courtroom Todd blanch tried to structure. his argument in a somewhat similar way. with those three pillars but his. argument soon melted into this that and. the other thing the prosecutions. argument is really structured they're. scaffolding throughout it and so when. you try and remember a certain piece of. evidence it makes it easier to remember. where each detail is kept you know where. the stormmy Daniel's payment is because.

it's at the end of that long sequence in. October you know when the election was. November 8th. 2016 all those things are Anchored In. Time in the prosecution's argument and. so when the jury begins to deliberate. they'll be able to refer back to that. timeline as they seek to bring up and. discuss these all important points of. the case but when they refer back to the. defense closing other than Michael Cohen. is a liar it's it's not really clear. what they'll remember what you're.

clearly saying here is prosecution was. telling a better more coherent more. compelling story than the defense but. I'm curious as you're in the courtroom. listening to the prosecution which gets. the last word with its closing how. they're signaling to the jury that this. is a case worth convicting a former. president and current Republican nominee. for president of having committed. because that's that seems like in a. somewhat different kettle of fish than.

simply referring to a bunch of evidence. well this is the reason we're talking. about this case right it's significant. not because it's a random defendant in. New York charged with 34 counts of. falsifying business records but because. it's Donald Trump and prosecutors aren't. just arguing that he falsified records. they're arguing that he did so to cover. up an election conspiracy in which he. defrauded the American people by keeping. the truth about his candidacy from them. mhm and Josh Stein glass draws on that. here he says that after the Access.

Hollywood tape was. released the campaign between Trump and. Hillary Clinton was extremely close he. even plays video of trump talking about. how he needs every last percentage point. he can get because the race is so close. and what Stein glass says is we can't. even know whether the publication of. Stormy daniels's story would have swung. the election but regardless Americans in. 2016 deserve to know they deserve. deserve to know this thing that Donald.

Trump prosecutors say intentionally hid. from them intentionally suppressed this. in doing so he really robbed Americans. of our right to evaluate candidates as. fully as we can the prosecutors are. arguing here so given everything that. you've just laid out I want to now and. finally turn to the jury's deliberations. which are about to get underway you are. of course a reporter you're not a juror. but you sat in this courtroom for the. entirety of the trial you didn't miss a.

moment of it so I'm curious how you're. thinking about what those deliberations. are likely to kind of look. like the jurors have a lot to discuss I. really keep thinking over and over about. what it's going to be like for them. because the jury is barred from. discussing the case until this exact. moment until they're actually given the. chance to deliberate it m so these. people have been hanging out with each.

other for weeks seeing the same stuff. making small talk but never comparing. notes about what they actually make of. the testimony yeah exactly so now they. get to talk for the first time they will. deliberate it can take hours it can take. days it can take. weeks now there are 34 charges here and. there are three options really for each. charge M the jurors can find Trump. guilty they can find him not guilty and. they could just not come to an agreement.

at all and hang on the charge and so if. we hear a verdict it could be guilty on. all 34 counts it could be not guilty on. all 34 counts it could be some. combination what's called a mixed. verdict where Trump is found guilty on. some of the accounts but not others and. it also could be that even though we've. said that the prosecution's case has. come in really strong there's one juror. who really doesn't trust Michael Cohen. and really agrees and believes that the. case hinges on Cohen and that juror if.

they decide I can't find this guy guilty. on any one of these charges because I. have to rely on Cohen to do so then. there's no chance of getting any. convictions on any one of the charges. because all the jurors and this is the. key Point all the jurors have to agree. they have to be unanimous MH and so what. you have at the end of this trial that. is about defrauding the American people. according to prosecutors is this chance.

for 12 people in a room to come. together. talk and try to decide whether the first. former American president ever to go on. trial is guilty or. [Music]. not well Jonah as always thank you very. much thanks so much for having me.

[Music]. the trial is expected to resume at 10:00. a.m. this morning when the judge will. issue instructions to the jury after. that jury deliberations will officially. begin we'll be right back. here's what else you need to know today.

on Tuesday the White House said that the. Israeli strike that killed dozens of. Palestinian civilians in Rafa did not. violate President Biden's recent threat. to cut off armed shipments to Israel if. it carried out a major military. operation in the city how does this not. violate the red line the president laid. out as I said we don't want to see a. major ground operation we haven't seen. that at this point during a news. conference reporters pushed a White. House spokesman John Kirby to explain.

the president's thinking how many more. charred corpses does he have to see. before the president considers a change. in Poli we don't want to see a single. more innocent life taken and I kind of. take a little offense at the question no. civilian casualties is the right number. of Civilian. casualties and Democratic Party leaders. say they will nominate President Biden. for a second term in office via a.

virtual roll call of delegates in order. to avoid an Ohio law that has threatened. to keep Biden off the state's ballot in. November Ohio law requires that all. candidates be legally certified by. August 7th but Biden is not scheduled to. be officially nominated until weeks. later during the Democratic National. Convention the virtual roll call solves. that problem because it will be. completed before the Ohio.

deadline today's episode was produced by. Eric krupky and CLA tennis ketter it was. edited by Rachel quer contains original. music by Marian lazano and was. engineered by Alyssa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of wily special thanks to Nick. Pitman. [Music].

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Michael raro. see you tomorrow. [Music].