The Campus Protesters Explain Themselves

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. daily I'm a student here I'm an English. major please don't fail us don't fail us. over the past month protests over the. war in Gaza have rocked college campuses. across the. country really having a longdistance. vision for the future Mar you are.

enabling the genocide of the Palestinian. people you know now I know that there's. a lot going on in the world right now. and there are many places to express. your views including other places in the. Coliseum but today is a day when we're. celebrating our. graduates as students graduate and go. home for the summer my daily colleagues. and I talked to three of them about why. they got involved what they wanted to. say.

and how they ended up facing off against. each. other it's Friday May. [Music]. 17th. hello hi is this Mustafa yes how are. yall doing good this is Sabrina and. Lindsay is also on the line with us. lindsy Garrison my colleague hi nice to.

talk with you nice to meet you Lindsay. thank you for having. me my name is Mustafa ya I'm 20 years. old and I study at the University of. Texas at Austin I study civil. engineering I'm a third. year Mustafa tell me where you grew up. got you yeah I'm from Irving Texas my. dad's from Sherman. Texas and my mother's from Naas. philistine.

I went to school in the United States my. entire life I was born in the United. States but I've always traveled back and. forth from here to Palestine it's a. second home to me but my roots are in. the United. States and what was it like growing up. in Irving Texas. uh it was fine I mean we grew up in a. house those uh we were in by no means. poor but only my dad worked and what was.

his job truck driver a tanker but uh we. had air conditioning the bills were paid. you know I had guitars my dad buy me. guitars so I was. comfortable but I didn't really have a. lot I didn't know any Arabs I knew very. few other Arabs my high school is mostly. Hispanic and African-American it wasn't. weren't a lot of white kids and no no. Arabs or anything like that and your mom. did she speak Arabic with you.

yeah yeah yeah I speak like a broken. Arabic with an accent but yeah we we all. speak. Arabic was it part of your identity was. it part of how you thought of. yourself for sure always yeah definitely. part of my culture and it's Unique to be. able to go spend the summer in a totally. different country environment you know I. always love being Palestinian I love my. family over there I always enjoyed I. always more of a community I felt a lot.

more tight-knit than the United States. where you just don't have that close M. of a community as over there do you have. a memory of what that felt. like for sure yeah just waking up in the. morning going to my grandma's house and. my grandmother my grandfather had 13. kids my mom was the ninth one so there's. people going in and out of her house and.

everyone's just around and it would. always smell like you know rice and. vegetables whatever dish they were. making. lamb got the TV. going crazy show they're. watching dramatic uh soap. opera because the city's small it's. meant for walking so I just walk around. and just going around see the city with. my cousin just following them around.

hanging out and I would go outside the. start of the day and I wouldn't come. back in until I go to. bed was it. beautiful yeah I would sit at my. Grandma's apartment building and look. down at the city from the top of the. mountain and take it in Nabis is just. it's a valley two big mountains and then. everything in between it's like a cereal. bowl you want to think of it like that.

and then the stars are a lot clearer the. cool wind is blowing at night it's. beautiful 60 something 70 something. degrees I'll be in a sweater just. looking down at the city looking at the. mountains trying to notice details. trying to see where I walked that day. trying to map out the path and. recognizing building that sort of. thing and then uh the beautiful sound of. the Adan. it echoes through when you're up high.

it's got that natural Reverb that. natural delay which is uh which is. always. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. cool breaking news now from the occupied. West Bank this has turned turned into.

one of the deadliest days in years. Palestinian leaders say Israeli forces. have killed at least nine Palestinians. during an arrest raid in a flasho area K. during an Israeli raid of a refugee they. protested what they say is the rising. wave of violent attacks by extremist. Jewish. [Music]. settlers and Mustafa noblis is of course. a city in the West Bank was there a.

sense of the problems between. Palestinians and Israel what was your. sense of of that as a kid yeah it's it's. kind of nature there. like it goes without saying you know. there is this. enemy I mean that's how my family got. there you know my grandparents were from. yaffa which is a part of Israel now and. they were forced in the Nabis they.

refugees in the. nabas there would be conflicts or the. the IDF would come in and arrest. somebody or something and it would be. throwing rocks and it' be chaos and I. was too young to comprehend it and then. uh I saw a raid an IDF raid up close and. you could go after they left you go look. at the door that they blew off with the. grenade and like this big metal door. mangled and twisted and.

as obviously the idea of driving off. people throwing. rocks but uh did your cousins ever talk. about it do you remember as a kid. grown-ups at the dinner table talking. about. it that's the thing is it was never like. somebody was like hey this is what's. happening it was just that's just. reality it's like you don't remember. learning that the sky is blue you don't. remember learning that airplanes exist. so to answer your question.

no because like I said every single day. that's reality for. them did you see ises was that part of. your family's life there well yeah so. actually it's changed a lot so before. you just see them through the bridge so. there's Israeli soldiers at the Israeli. checkpoint they got their big machine. guns and their fancy hats but recently. when I was in high school more and more. illegal settlements in the West bank and.

Israel just taking over all the highway. systems and Travel Systems there you do. see traveling City to City the car has a. yellow license plate than it's Israeli. settlers was it changing from Summer to. Summers as you were growing up like. every summer was different yeah every. summer more settlements you know. Billboards of a like a young Jewish. Family young man young woman holding. their young Jewish baby and something in. Hebrew kind of advertising like this is. a settlement call this number.

encouraging Israelis to move there all. across the highway you see that more and. more like I remember having a. conversation my uncle was. delivering maybe chlorine I forget what. he was delivering but we drove to. Jericho we're seeing all the Billboards. and the the tanks driving by us and the. yellow license plates in the settlements. I remember talking to him about what. Israel's end goal is and like what his. mind and the Palestinians mind what do.

we want like what's the ideal situation. from us practically practically what. what could happen and he spoke of it as. if I asked him what the weather was he. explained that the cities can't expand. so they want to again move us out of. Palestinian land into Jordan or into. Egypt and have us as refugees but uh he. talked about how most Palestinians want. the the West Bank and Gaza they want.

that two-state solution and not be. annexed by Israel like they are. now and it's scary to think about. because obviously that's the other half. of my family and you. know that's why I'm so invested in it. here because it matters so. much so you go to Austin Texas to go to. University of Texas how was your. experience.

on campus I. mean were you friends with Arab students. Arab American students definitely yeah. Palestinians and Arabs in general I. would meet them around campus here and. there and I knew about the Palestinian. solidarity Community I knew about Arab. Student Association but I wasn't active. in until last. fall after October 7th there was some. increase Palestinian demonization or. like it's racism if you want to call.

it there were a couple of things in West. Campus somebody like a Muslim guy got. stabbed by uh he was it wasn't a Jewish. guy it was just a white. guy and then uh there was a Palestinian. solidary committee meeting and there. were I two IDs soldiers had infiltrated. the campus Building and like harassed. the people outside of the meeting.

I'm not. doing just saying you are [ __ ]. terrorist no violence your. colors no violence this just your. [ __ ] terrorist and you [ __ ]. terrorist no violence we're not we're. asking that you just don't go into the. room where I'm not going into the room. I'm not going to stand here you know is. what is. Palestine it's not even you don't even. know. St Israeli army soldiers at University. of Texas firste Minister H I guess.

former IDF Soldier grown men right grown. trained military men they come in and uh. harassing people outside town and we're. going to we're going to do this we're. going to do that I don't remember their. words. exactly were you there I was not there. no it was the fact that I wasn't there. that that made me really feel the need. to be more present in the. community I had a kind of fire in my. body that you should been there when.

you're in a tight-knit community you. feel bigger you feel more fulfilled and. for me to not be there was made me feel. small so I participated in the protest. through downtown Austin I saw the stuff. on it for social media or on social. media so I walk from campus to the. capital and then uh I come into the. capital whatever part of the capital.

long it was just see this huge crowd and. wow just the giant massive people taking. up the entire. Road and then holding signs chanting. people with their kids and then you look. up at the parking garages and buildings. you got people waving Palestinian. Flags I've never seen anything like that. in America before. [Applause]. had you ever been to a protest before.

no and uh to see it it's totally. different than what you can. imagine it's like uh I show you a. picture of the beach and you're like. yeah it's going to be nice and then you. go there and then you see the beach. you're not surprised it's pretty but you. know it still means something when you. actually go see it.

that was before campus protest began but. within the Palestinian solidarity. committee we held more events more. teaching. events and then a March to the Tower. with more Channing and and that was a. few hundred people students all. [Music]. students I remember talking to it with. my Arab friends how we were surprised. that it wasn't just Arabs it wasn't just. Muslims at the protest it was like.

regular students we saw you know regular. white guys that could have been in a. frat or they got on their coats and. their backpacks and they just they don't. look like they're part of any group that. would have already been conscious of the. situation and it was very surprising to. see that see that many people take the. time out of their day for it to be that. important to them like it is important. to me is definitely meaningful.

and what did that mean to you meant so. much cuz optimism optimism that I never. had. before kind of one of the reasons that I. wasn't as president in the Arab. Community is kind of like how I describ. back in Nas the Israeli occupation is. just reality but to have this reaction. it it felt like this cause is not. hopeless. it was like all of your life it had just.

been this fact exactly right. yeah it was hopeless before like you're. screaming at a brick wall but. now yeah you feel big when everybody's. yelling the same thing you are. [Music]. [Music].

and are. they continuing to organize and plan. protests what's happening now right now. so every day this week There's been. sitting teaching lunch studying. going on on the south tower lawn what's.

the mood like it's peaceful it's. nice sometimes you'll have the Zionist. come in and the the counter protest or. something like that but generally it's. been. fine not not very much. tension who Mustafa who are the. Zionist when you say Zionist who are you. talking about you mean like the. definition of a.

Zionist Zionist is someone who believes. that the entire land should be the state. of Israel and is their god-given. right and that is how the illegal. occupation illegal settlements that's. how all that is Justified it's the idea. of. Zionism so it'll be people holding. Israeli flags and their their their. intention there is to show their support. for isra and kind of be Israel's voice.

in in this situation you can go up there. and talk to him and that sort of. [Music]. thing I would show up to the other side. protests with my Israeli flag because it. was very important to me even in the. face of hate to not be bullied or scared. off campus and it was important to me as. someone who felt confident and. comfortable enough to do that that I.

kind of acted as you know a voice for my. peers around me who kind of were anxious. and didn't want to be. seen we'll be right. back I consider myself as proud a. Zionist as can be and what that means. very simply is that I believe in the. Jewish people's right to a state in. their historic.

Homeland and that's something that. people misunderstand about Jews is that. we're not just a religion we are a. people and we've always considered. ourselves to be a people right the first. Covenant is with Abraham I'll make you a. great. nation my colleague daily producer. Jessica Chung talked to Alicia Baker a. sophomore at Columbia. [Music]. University I'm studying Middle East. history. and Arabic language I also studied.

Hebrew my whole life and I feel like as. somebody who's studying the Middle East. and wants to for my life to participate. in Middle East diplomacy and. conversations about the future of the. Middle East it was necessary for me to. both learn the history from New. Perspectives and learn Arabic. language I grew up in Brooklyn. Massachusetts right outside Boston yeah. I when I went to Jewish Day School my. entire life growing up in Brooklyn was. probably the best thing that could have.

happened to me I grew up in a in an. observant modern Orthodox Jewish. Community but I went to pluralistic. Jewish Day School which meant that at. school I was around Jews with all sorts. of different backgrounds and you know. different ways of practicing their. religion so far Mitzvah season was very. fun for me because you know one week I. was Orthodox synagogue and the next week. I was in a reform synagogue where they. were playing guitar and drums and that. was very good for my know my Jewish. religious literacy can you tell me like.

a story from childhood about something. that maybe happened to you that first. got you to understand what it is to be a. Jewish person yeah that's such a good. question you know I've lit I have never. been asked that question so there was. one year I can't remember exactly what. year but in middle school there so every. year we have a a fast day and it's it's. distinct from Yom kipor because Yom. kipor is about repentance it's also a. fast day but Kabab is really a fast day.

of morning and it's a sad day it's like. the saddest day of the year and so one. of the things you're not allowed to do. is you know watch a comedy or do things. like for pleasure can't watch the office. on Tab as much as I love the office so. when I was younger what that meant was. watching movies about the Holocaust and. I remember in like sixth grade probably. I watched for the first time I'm the boy. in the strip pajamas I'm.

broo sorry I'm. scho. Sho no one's called. Shmo what happens is there's a Jewish. Boy in the Striped Pajamas who's in one. of the death camps and a German general. a Nazi who lives near the death camps. and his son is the same age as the. Jewish boy and they kind of developed. this like. thing like this secret friendship or.

whatever are you not allowed. out why what have you. done I'm a. Jew and in the end the Jewish boy sneaks. the German boy into the camp and they. end up in line for quote unquote the. shower no it's just the. [Music]. showerer and and the German boy they go. into they what the gas chamber. [Music].

and the German general tries to get. there in time to stop it and doesn't get. there in. time and I was just balling at the end. when when you see his face through the. window the tiny little window of the gas. chamber and the German kid who by the. way tragically dies as well because He. follows his Jewish friend cuz he didn't. understand the difference cuz he just. saw him as a human being and my god did.

that stick with me and still has stuck. with me um in terms of just. understanding how brutal and inhumane. the Holocaust. was well certainly you grew up in an. observant family but did you grow up in. a political family at all like did your. parents ever talk to you about the state. of Israel or Palestine and did that ever. come up definitely I mean I went in 10th.

Grade and 11th grade I was like all. right I need to know about this conflict. more than I already do and I was like. you know I know my narrative and I know. my people's history and I would love to. know their narrative though I read. Edward SED question the question of. Palestine and orientalism I read. rashid's 100 Years War in Palestine I. read Rashid ki's Palestinian identity I. also read d with his book on called The.

Case for Israel and Yosi Klein Levi's. letters to my Palestinian neighbor and. Daniel gordis to Israel kind of. foundational text on both sides of this. and I would come to the dinner table and. be like all right like well what the. heck happened in. 1948 you know who's fault with it that. the that many Palestinians had to leave. and at the end of the day like it is. definitely clear that it's complicated.

[Music]. so I came to Columbia in search of a an. academically. serious environment with peers from. different backgrounds who because of our. different backgrounds we might learn so. much from each. other but what I'm feeling right now is. some of these people don't believe that. I have a right to be at that table. [Music].

I want to get to the protests and what's. been happening on campus but just to. reel it back a little bit what happened. in the days after October 7th morning. mour it was a time for mourning and for. being with our community and then on. October 12th we found out that students. for by the way students for justice in. Palestine and Jewish voice for peace the. token Jews who support anti-semitic and. violent uh rhetoric they were planning a.

an allout for Palestine rally on October. 12th wait a second what the hell are you. talking about you're planning a rally on. October 12th like we were literally. still bagging bodies in the South. Israelis who were. massacred to me that was like the most. inhumane. unsensitive really just morally. reprehensible. thing that I had ever seen in my entire.

life and it really really pissed me off. from the river to the Sea River to the. Sea will be free will be. free and as a Jewish Community we you. know there was a there was a. conversation what do we do about this. everyone we're going to ask everyone to. gather in a circle so that we can sing. together in a sign of Jewish unity and. so that we can stand strong in front of. the people who want to tear us down. they'll never tear us down come on and.

we did 22 minutes of silence which at. that time was 1 second for each of the. around 1300. [Applause]. victims and then got into a big circle. and just sang songs of peace and unity. and. perseverance it was really a moment for. community and it was all those so. disheartening to.

see our peers celebrating October 7th. that was really you know that was a. wakeup call to the fact that we have. some real. problems but also I would try and talk. to people and then you know sometimes. the leaders would be like you know. you're not allowed to talk to these guys. with the Israeli Flags once in a while. I'd be able to talk to somebody and I. was lucky enough that there was one. person who was actually Palestinian and. you know friendly enough to to speak. with me and then we know we got to. talking and ended up getting.

coffee we spoke a lot about narrative. and the importance of narrative to. history and I would stress the. importance of the Jewish story and be. open to hearing obviously the. Palestinian. [Music]. side when the protests on Columbia's. campus started we were already hearing. globalize the intifa from New York to.

[Music]. and this movement on campus continues. that screamed in Revolution and there is. only one solution right intifa. [Music]. Revolution now as somebody who knows the. Jewish story and the Israeli story I.

know what intifa is it means violence. against Jews the second intifa happened. between 2000 and 2005 over a thousand. Jews were killed thousands were injured. and it was basically a series of bus. bombing suicide bombings stabbings. shootings perpetrated perpetuated by. Palestinian terrorists so that's what I. hear when I hear in Tiana it is a call. for violence against Jews everywhere. very very simply so I raised that. concern and I said please shut it down.

because this is a threat against Jews. and it's going to normalize violence. against Jews and I was. told no the Arabic root of intifa is Naf. which means shaking things up and I said. well you can't use eological roots to. reverse what the meaning has become and. I was told well we're not calling for. violence and I would say well what are. you calling for and there was never a. concrete answer we've had this.

conversation probably 10 times over. lunch and. passing we're not going to agree it is a. call for violence against Jews there is. no way that any other minority could get. his claims of discrimination denied by. the use of an emical. route everyone who has to go through Dei. training is taught that a. microaggression is something that you. but you didn't mean to be racist but.

maybe might come off as offensive and. we're taught that the impact of your. words matters more than your intent when. you say it now I'm saying well here's. the impact of your words on me here's. how I experience them as a Jew as a. minority and I'm being told no no no the. intent of the speaker matters more than. the impact on you what kind of double. standard is that. [Music].

you mentioned earlier this phrase token. Jew who are the token. Jews it's to me I think there are it's. it's really sad There are some Jewish. people who identify I guess as Jewish. but reject the existence of the state of. Israel and what's happening is that. they're saying oh you know I'm Jewish. and I'm anti-zionist so therefore.

anti-zionism is not anti-Semitism or. therefore this movement can't be. anti-semitic because I'm a part of it. that is textbook. tokenization and who are they I don't. know who they are I don't know who they. are but I do know that they do not know. the Jewish story they just don't know it. they are signing statements and leading. protests that are celebrating the murder. of Israelis and of. Jews how in good conscience as a Jew. could you possibly do.

[Music]. that have you ever been called that. token Jew oh my God I have been called. the self-hating Jew I've been told I. want the extermination of Jewish people. I have not been directly called a token. Jew. but I have definitely been things online.

that insinuate that myself and other. Jewish people in this movement are and. [Music]. um it. hurts but. I well I I know it's not. true I know that it is not an accurate. portrayal of me or my feelings but that. it is an accurate portrayal of other. people's fear and desire for safety I.

also want my people to be safe but my. desire for safety is not built on the. idea that it has to come to someone. else's. [Music]. expense my name is Jasmine Jolly I'm 25. I'm a student at calpoly humble and I'm. a student of the child development. department and I am at home in Arcada. California I grew up in Sonoma County. I'm of ashkanazi descent on my mom's.

side my dad's a high school teacher and. my mom ran a daycare for years and my. parents were both activists they took us. to anti-war protest like when Bush. attacked. Iraq they had us at protest and my mom. made us all shirts like I think mine. said war is bad for toddlers my sister. said war is bad for babies hers said war. is bad for moms my dad said war is bad. for dads and what about your faith did.

they practice Judaism were your parents. more culturally Jewish my dad was raised. Catholic but I was raised really proudly. like culturally Jewish so we always had. really big like family seders big. Hanukkah parties we celebrated Russia. Shana together I'm really openly Jewish. and I talk about it a lot I talk about. the values through like my understanding. of Jewish tradition and just like.

historically for me holding on to that. title of Jewish and being able to passed. on to my children one day is really. really. important so yeah like I'm raising. Jewish babies one day for sure but I. have. been I've been in a lot of spaces where. I didn't feel Jewish. enough and I've also been told a lot. throughout my life that I don't look. Jewish. I look like the Irish English Scottish.

side of my family um so yeah like I. don't in a lot of ways. fit Jewish stereotypes. [Music]. um and. I've never been targeted because of it. um and that at least is like I'm sure. partially because of how I. look and then two three years ago I had. been giving a lot of consideration to. the idea of Birthright Birthright trip.

is a free trip that anyone who can prove. Jewish ancestry is given to Israel it's. seen as a Birthright of Jewish people. and then in my mid late teenage years I. had read about people walking off of. their Birthright trip in protest and. that sort of. sparked like a bit of a deeper dive. beyond the honestly very little that I. knew about the country. previously um I started reading about. that and I started reading about settler.

violence in the West Bank and I looked. at like historical maps and historical. treaties and I was like oh this is. really there there's some there's things. here I was like there's things here that. I wasn't like told that people didn't. tell me um like. what like about settler violence and. this like pretty continuous push from. Israeli people onto Palestinian land and.

then expulsion of Palestinians from. their land but that was a really big. turning point for. me so you never went on the birthright. trip no and I won't and then mid. October right around that time there. were the campus dialogues on. race and for a class we were assigned to. go to two of these and to write about. our experience there so one I went to. was given by a Palestinian student on I.

think they called it like tties like. resistance. embroidery and at that point I was. watching Israel's retaliation now more. than. 12,700 Palestinians have been killed as. watch the numbers of the Dead go up and. I watched Family Lines being wiped out. people being pushed out of their homes. families are bearing their dead in Mass. with little I seen hundreds and hundreds.

of images of dead children and dead. families and bodies and mass Graves Gaza. becoming a graveyard for children the UN. Chief says and all I could see in that. was this parallel to how my family was. treated in Eastern. Europe and that was when the severity. sunk. in I um come from a people who are.

historically. expelled. and I felt like I was watching Israel do. what was done to my. family and that was that was the. end of any way I could support that. country for. me I felt like I was watching them inact. Vengeance out of fear and I know exactly. where that fear of like. Exile and extermination comes from in.

Jewish people because I feel it for my. family um when they had to leave Eastern. Europe or for the few who went to. Western Europe instead of the US when. they had to leave France and when they. died and I the lesson I learned I feel. like from my history is that I have a. voice that is. powerful I feel like my Jewish family.

especially teaches me to ask questions. and that is what I am trying to. do so I thought that if there was any. way that my voice could influence an end. to violence I would try to make it. loud so we had a couple of. for people who have died in godra where.

we read testimonies of their stories or. some of their words that was when I got. more involved with humble for Palestine. up here and eventually we shifted to. being at the Eureka courthouse on. Fridays and we have been there every. Friday ever. [Music]. since and what was your sign that you. made mine said in honor of my Jewish. ancestors I stand with Palestine. [Music].

Jasmine during these protests I wanted. to ask you if you ever felt hostility. toward you because of your jewishness no. nothing that has like ever made me feel. excluded I'm sure you've seen some of. these comparisons of like Nazis and IDE. yes or people compare Netanyahu to. Hitler and once we had a person show up.

to one of our regular protests with an. Israeli flag but instead of the Star of. David it had a swastika on it and that I. was immediately uncomfortable with I. will not stand with a. swasa I will not stand next to a swasa I. will not stand in the same group as a. swasa I like adamant refuse I cannot do. that I will not stand here with any Nazi. symbolism like this is going to bring.

more violence and vital aimed in our. direction we already get coffee cups Dar. at us we already get spit at and yelled. at and in order to keep the people that. we are inviting to these protests safe. we knew that that was not the time and. place for. it so there's this chant Ina Revolution. is the only. solution what does that mean to you um. so intifa has come to represent Uprising. but it means literally to shake off and.

it is a word that has been used to label. a number of violent uprisings of. different Palestinian groups against. Israeli occupation does that seem like a. fair like actual Like official. definition of it to you yeah I wanted to. ask you if you yourself had chanted inat. revolution in the course of the. protests yeah I. have and what did that feel like um it.

definitely the first time I heard it I. was. uncomfortable why uh whoa this is a call. for violence I don't like. that but then I thought about the word I. read multiple definitions I read Jewish. takes on the word I read Muslim takes on. the word I read Miriam Webster. um. and I realized the similarity in that. call of there is only one solution in.

the father Revolution I realized the. similarity to if we don't get no justice. they don't get no peace no justice no. peace when people are occupied. resistance is Justified and yes it it is. it is still a word that means these like. specific actions that were taken against. Israel and a lot of them harmed. civilians and that is sad but it is also. a. word that inspires people it is also a.

word that makes people feel like they. might be capable of. change. and and yeah. I will use it. thoughtfully what do you mean by. thoughtfully in like where I time it. with other chance oh what do you mean I. I have like a list and they are all. classified by like genre so we have the.

financial ones and we have the the. Arabic chance and we have the chance. talking about people who have died and. how we are all. interconnected and we have the chance. about occupation being a crime and I try. to put it with the no justice no peace. ones were there any other times where. you felt tested by protesters you felt. perhaps. different from them again because of.

your. jewishness. no I feel. like I feel there's people who feel like. Zionism is Judaism you know or that to. be Jewish you must be. Zionist but there's nothing that has. come across to me as. anti-semitic if you are able to pause. um and remember that Israel is not.

Jewish people and Zionism is not Jewish. people and what about from Jewish. friends do they question what you're. doing do you ever feel some kind of. people looking slightly as scans at you. yeah I think you know my auntie made a. comment once like if you're Jewish right. now you have to support Israel and uh I. have definitely felt nervous about. expressing some of my views in front of.

family my grandfather and I this was a. couple months ago now we were exchanging. like 1500 2,000 word emails asking each. other questions about our opinions he's. a he was a history Professor this is my. Jewish grandfather he was raised labor. Zionist so I was asking about how he was. raised and the ideologies that he was. raised with. but. he he made a really good point and if. you have the time I would like to try to. find this line that he said and read it.

to. you oh. please here here it is so he said you. have grown up in an era in which the. deeper Israeli history is not part of. your DNA Jews have plenty of place in. the world Israel is an increasingly. apartheid state most importantly the. existence of Israel has never really. been under threat nor have the most. fundamental conditions of existence been. an issue for Jews those things are not a. part of your worldview as they are mine. in my generation and to a lesser extent.

your parents I do not imagine you can. fathom the importance of Israel in the. hearts of people of my generation nor. should you I would not ask it that would. be an unfair burden that said here are. the things which I believe we might both. agree on or at Le very least. productively argue. about what did you think really of that. point that your grandfather made like. how did. it strike you did you feel like he was.

right that you didn't understand why. Israel would be a safe haven for people. of his generation I I think his point is. that I can theoretically understand but. I cannot. emotionally I theoretically understand. why Israel was created why this idea of. a Jewish state was considered a good. idea for the safety of Jewish people. right after a. genocide but emotionally like he.

said I have been. safe I have not been afraid for Jewish. people's safety the way that I think. people in other Generations may. have so that comment I do not imagine. you could fathom the importance of. Israel in the hearts of people in my. generation nor should you I would not. ask it it would be an unfair. burden. really just hit my heart in a nice way. in this like his understanding that I.

will have my own perspective and he will. have his own that lead us both toward a. place of like understanding each other. better. [Music].

[Music]. we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today on Thursday day the Supreme Court. rejected a challenge to the way that the.

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is. funded a decision that protects the. agency from conservatives seeking to. undermine it in a 7 to2 ruling the. justice is found that the way that. Congress chose to finance the bureau is. constitutional had the Court ruled. otherwise it may have cast doubt on. every regulation and action taken by the. watchog agency since it was created ated. 13 years ago under former president. Barack.

Obama and during a second day of. cross-examination lawyers for Donald. Trump sought to portray his former fixer. Michael Cohen as a serial liar who. constantly changes his story their goal. was to undermine The credibility of. Cohen's testimony so far which is. Central to the prosecution's case in the. hush money trial in particular defense. lawyer seized on Cohen's claim in a. different court case that he had lied.

under oath their suggestion is that. Cohen might be willing to lie under oath. again during this. [Music]. trial also a reminder to catch the. interview tomorrow right here where you. get the daily this week on the show. David maresi talks with scientist Ayan. Elizabeth Johnson about why she thinks. we can't give in to climate Doom even if. we feel it we went from like okay.

climate change is this really happening. to like how serious is this to oh God. it's so bad let's just give. up and sort of skipped this middle step. of all hands on. deck today's episode was reported and. produced by Lindsay Garrison and Jessica. Chong with help from Diana win AA chat. and Clare tennis sket it was edited by.

Michael benois with help from Ben. Calhoun researched by Susan Lee contains. original music by Chelsea Daniel Dan. Powell Marian Lozano Alicia beu Rowan. Nimo and was engineered by Alysa Moxley. our themee music is by Jim brunberg and. Ben Lans of. wonderly special thanks to relle Banja. and jod. canor that's it for the daily I'm.

Sabrina Tavern see you on Monday.