The Caitlin Clark Phenomenon

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. Tavern and this is the. daily the tournament games for college. basketball begin this week and the star. this year is a woman who is changing. everything about the game from the way. it's played to its economics and who is. watching today my colleague Matt. flegenheimer on the extraordinary. phenomenon of cait Clark the trail she.

is blazing in women's sports and whether. it will. [Music]. last it's Thursday March. [Music]. 21st Matt hello welcome to the show. thank you so much and welcome to March. Madness welcome to March Madness. America here we go so Matt the NCAA.

basketball tournament starts this week. and the biggest star this year is a. woman Caitlyn Clark she's someone who. even a year ago was not a household name. but here we are devoting an entire daily. episode to her so for the. uninitiated tell me why well Caitlyn. Clark is the most famous college. basketball player in America she's a. senior at the University of Iowa she is. 22 years old and she has become this.

sort of electric. phenomenon she is selling out Arenas and. really being this sort of Master of. Ceremonies at every game that she's in. there is a quality to her um when you. walk into the arena you know that she is. the person that everyone has come to see. every camera is pointed at her every. cell phone is pointed at her every fan. is watching her warm up any sort of.

mundane activity happens on the court. she grabs a rebound she's getting a pass. there's the sort of anxious hush like. there's just this quality of you don't. know what's going to happen. next and Beyond being a sports story the. story of Caitlyn Clark is really about. this kind of broader cultural phenomenon. and really speaks to uh sea change in. the way that women's sports are being. consumed so this really reminds me of.

when I was in high school in the 1980s. in Massachusetts and there was this. player Larry Bird who played for the. Boston Celtics and he was just electric. and everybody wanted to watch this guy. play I mean he drew me into a game I. ordinarily probably would not have been. interested in because he was such a good. player and he was Massachusetts you know. it was my team and it sounds like this. is something that Caitlyn Clark is now. doing for women's basketball so tell me. about her how did she begin what's her.

story Kaitlin Clark has this kind of. sports movie origin. story and her story is something she's. talked about quite a bit in interviews. in her postgame press conferences so I'm. an Iowa kid I grew up here I grew up. rooting for the Hawkeyes um her Story. begins in Iowa in West de Mo about 2. hours from the University campus um. we're definitely a sports family more. than anything she is from a family of. athletes she has two brothers I was. super competitive so I think that kind. of like fueled me and wanted to play.

sports especially basketball and she has. this hyper competitive streak that her. family has talked about from an early. age her brother needs you know Staples. in his head after a Nerf game goes. sideways there's this sense that she's. really wired a certain. way I honestly started playing sports. with boys before girls I and she really. starts to play with the boys both in her. family and otherwise I've won like. League MVP one year and like parents. were mad they're like this is a boys. League how can a girl be the MVP so I.

was just and she's you know shooting. Hoops in the driveway eventually her. range becomes so extensive that her dad. has to take some grass out of the lawn. to make more driveway so she can shoot. from further away gosh amazing she also. has Role Models Maya Moore she's like my. first ever WNBA game I actually met her. which is and Maya Moore she has this. story she likes to tell of seeing her. play all I ever wanted to do is meet her. I didn't have a phone so I just ran over. gave her a hug ran away it's like the. most vivid memory I have of like woman's.

basketball growing up and and sort of. sees herself following that. tradition and then as a teenager she. becomes enough of a sort of buzzed about. basketball player that even some really. prominent National figures like Kevin. Durant the men's basketball player start. to notice her and she winds up. committing to the University of Iowa. staying in her home state um and it was. immediately clear that the program which. you know I think was seen as like a. solid program not necessarily a.

perennial Powerhouse was going to be. seen in a different way with somebody. like Caitlin on the roster so the team. was okay and suddenly it was getting. this incredible player this incredible. player this sort of generational talent. and somebody who coaches have talked. about really having to to Bridal is a. word that they use um as if she were a. racehorse something that they had to. sort of figure out how to make exist in. a team context okay Bridal is an. interesting word what about her her.

specifically was different than other. players on the team she just had talents. that not a lot of players had and her. coaches and teammates have talked about. her own expectations of herself being so. high that sometimes her expectations of. her teammates were such that she could. be disappointed if they bobbled a pass. that she threw that they didn't expect. if they missed a shot off of some pass. of hers if the coaches did something. that she didn't necessarily think was. wise so there was this sort of sort of a. learning curve for her and for the team. and her coaches for how to best Channel.

all of that in a team. setting here's Clark she fires and it. goes she hit it but certainly the talent. was clear wow she was you know a leading. scorer as a freshman holy smokes another. deep three from Kaitlyn Clark she was. taking these long three-pointers from. all over the court Clark from the logo. there's a logo at midc court in Iowa.

that's a sort of Hawkeye beak. Clark oh my gosh and um she's taking. shots from like the edge of the beak huh. in other words from very far out right. from very far out with this just. boundless shooting range you know. pulling up from places on the court that. most players wouldn't conceive of. shooting from and consistently making. shots and having a defense need to sort. of account for her so far away from the. basket creates room for other players to. operate.

[Music]. okay so when does she go to. stratospheric fame with that so in last. year's NCAA tournament March Madness. round after round she is just carrying. Iowa with these spectacular viral. moments these incredible passes with a. roster that's not necessarily considered. a real powerhouse in the tournament and. it's compelling to watch obviously. seeing somebody shoot from that far. seeing somebody carry a team like that. be beating teams that maybe seemed more.

formidable than Iowa and the attention. grows she acquires a nickname at the. time ponytail Pete after Pete marovich. who was an incredible college basketball. player and professional in the 60s and. 70s he did not have a ponytail he did. not have a ponytail he had pretty shaggy. hair he maybe could have had a ponytail. if he wanted to and has this really. spectacular run all the way to the final. four where they face off against South. Carolina seen as the best team in the. country defeated to that point I was a.

big Underdog and on the strength really. largely of Caitlyn's Brilliance on the. court they win um they defeat the sort. of Goliath they go to the championship. game and really nobody saw them getting. that far and the national championship. game is. underway so what happens in that final. game so in that final game it's Iowa. against LSU Louisiana state Louisiana. state which is another really compelling. cast of is a a loaded roster headline by.

Angel Reese their star. player Angel Reese gorgeous delivery. inside really colorful coach Kim Moi. smart awareness by LSU on these. mismatches in the post and it does sort. of pit these two programs against each. other two really compelling casts of. players and supporting characters. meeting in this in this epic. final. again it's a very competitive game back. and forth and it's viewed by almost 10. million people wow which is a Far and.

Away record for a women's final really. not that far off from the men's final. and they see a good game. 7164 LSU in front you see the bench. Advantage it's not down to the wire to. the very end necessarily a competitive. game but it's not quite. enough they. lose but the story doesn't necessarily. end there uh Lindsay with USA St again. Caitlyn can you tell us.

uh at the end of the game what happened. there's a lot blown up on Twitter about. angel Reese following you around in the. days afterwards there is this sort of. controversy around Angel Reese and. Caitlyn Clark essentially over a. celebration that Caitlin Clark had done. previously in the tournament that was. sort of putting her hand in front of her. face it's called the the you can't see. me kind of taunting that sort of amounts. to trash talk on the court so she's. basically saying haha she's saying haha. with her hands yeah okay and with the. scoreboard. at the time and then in the final when.

LSU is pulling away Angel Reese does the. same gesture at Clark and is very. clearly kind of taunting Clark as I was. about to lose and have their tournament. run end she was obnoxious yes she was. obnoxious Keith obman said on the. comment of this this was his comment on. a a young woman oh okay who is in. college winning a championship what an. effing but spell out the word.

idiot the difference in the Fallout is. that angel ree who was black faced quite. a bit of criticism for this taunting the. sense that it was unsportsmanlike I'm. too Hood I'm too ghetto y'all told me. that all year but when other people do. it y'all don't say nothing so this and. Kaitlin Clark who was white had not. really faced any of that so there was. this sense of a double standard in the. coverage of this there was this real. momentum to kind of pit the two them. against each other as these two stars of.

the sport one white one black and. Caitlyn Clark was not so interested in. any of that I don't think Angel should. be criticized at all and you know says. she has nothing but respect for Angel. Reese loves how she plays loves her game. competition is good I think everybody. knew there was going to be a little. Trash Talk in the entire tournament it's. not just me and Angel across any sport. that's how it should be so she says. trash talk all the time and why should. this be any different you know you. should be able to play with that emotion. that's how I'm going to continue to play. that's how every girl should continue to.

play so and ultimately this becomes a. sort of long tale of the final itself. you had this moment with these. incredible ratings for the game and then. you had this kind of secondary moment of. this pseudo controversy and all of it is. drawing eyeballs to women's basketball. in a way that hadn't really happened in. the decades that had been around and. even for people who don't follow. basketball right I mean I had heard. about it around that time probably. precisely for that reason.

absolutely you had people who had never. watched Caitlin Clark play a minute of. basketball consuming the story in a new. way so really was this time last year. taking together the tournament. experience and this sort of postmortem. that kitlin Clark becomes more than a. basketball player she becomes a national. figure at a very different. [Music]. scale we'll be right. [Music]. back.

so Matt you just told me that Caitlyn. Clark at the end of last season really. went from being a basketball player in. the state of Iowa to something much. bigger something really on the national. stage tell me about that so see emerges. from last season with a whole new. profile a lot of new fans a lot of new. attention and in this sort of fluke of. historical timing Caitlyn Clark's. college career is coming along at a time. when there is this massive shift. happening in college sports prior to. 2021 College athletes could not make. money off of their name image and.

likeness now that's a possibility so. that combined with being an extremely. effective narrator of Her Own Story. she's becoming extremely famous in a. time when becoming extremely famous as a. college athlete is very lucrative. business so okay this translates to. sponsors and advertisers presumably they. come calling they do quite a few of them. Iowa was Caitlyn Clark now has her own. brand of cereal on high show so Clark is. the latest athlete to join Nike's lineup. she's among the sort of sponsors who.

associate with professional. players shoot shoot okay I'll shoot. what's happening but I don't see any. hoop State Farm if we can draw 56,000. fans you can draw 57 Gatorade if I can. sign with. Gatorade you can. too but these are not you know local car. dealerships these are major national. this is not she's obviously huge in Iowa. but these are national Brands um who.

come calling and who stay very much a. part of the. picture a six fo senior from. West number. 22. G so by the time her senior season. starts for 23 24 I mean this thing is. off and running the first sellout in the. history of the women's program here at. Northwestern of course the big draw I. went to a couple of games both at home. and on the road been packed mostly the. entire day and that's because of this.

line that formed here it is stretching I. I think I've heard about a quarter mile. around the building and and it's just a. rock concert everywhere let's go Kaitlyn. CL I got to be like Kaitlyn a lot of. kids with signs you know I want to be. like Kate they're wearing her Jersey he. definitely changed the game for the. better and even just changed the world. but so are you know a lot of like grown. men people are driving hours to see her. they're selling out Arenas over 52,000. TI tickets have been sold not a single.

empty seat with crowds flocking to see. Iowa Hawkeyes star Caitlyn Clark. secondary ticket prices for resale are. going for like $400 $500 it's really. become kind of the hottest thing in town. and celebrities are going to IA City to. watch college basketball and there is. this really kind of breakthrough. cultural power and she knows this she. knows she's being uh consumed in this. way and and she'll file away little.

scenes that she takes in there was a. game um at Iowa that I was at there was. this girl it was cute she was like. copying our stretching warming up so I. thought it was like adorable she was. doing like leg swing she noticed before. the game so she files that away they. play the game she plays great they. [Music]. win she goes up to the girl and gives. her the shoes that she had worn for the. game what is the little girl to she. actually I mean she's she's beaming that. that is probably the most special moment.

that has ever happened you know. something easy I can make her day and. I'm sure she loved it so it was cool but. kin has sort of talked about that being. her experience as a fan at that age too. and it really keeps. going here comes Clark how will she go. for history there it. is she's essentially breaking a new. record every few games she has the most. points of anybody to ever play on the. women's side eventually it's the men's. record K.

becomes the all time leading score in. major P. basketball either men or women nobody. has scored more points playing college. basketball in division one than Caitlyn. Clark wow it's quite something the. record she broke on the men's side was. held by Pete marovich um to whom she was. compared last year so it's a lot of. history that she's. transcending and you see the sport. itself start to reap some of the. benefits of this new found detention the.

television contract for the women's. tournament value the tournament at $65. million annually which was a manyfold. increase over the last contract there is. a sense that ratings will persist and. she's also not the only player in the. country right now getting a lot of. attention there are great players. throughout the college game including. Angel ree Juju Watkins who's a freshman. at USC who are really frankly bigger. Stars than any men's college basketball. player right now so this doesn't just. begin and end with Caitlyn and it won't. end for college sports when she leaves.

obviously Caitlyn Clark will not be the. college basketball player forever but. she helped Drive attention to the sport. and there is a hope that it can sustain. itself after she's gone so this. tremendously popular college player is. really kind of blowing up the sport. economically and culturally but as you. say she's not going to be in college. Forever at some point she's going to. graduate she will so she faces this. Choice um despite being a senior there. was this allowance given to athletes. during Co to stay for an extra year so.

really all year she's faced this Choice. people have asked her about it. constantly will she go back to school. for a fif season or will she turn pro. but Matt why wouldn't she go pro I mean. isn't it every athlete's aspiration and. goal to go pro I mean she's getting a. ton of attention selling out stadiums. like why would going pro even be a. question yeah if she were a male College. athlete playing basketball this might be. a lot more straightforward the best. players in college on the men's side. tend to go pro at the first opportunity. there is money to be made there are. eyeballs in the NBA on the women's side.

there is the WNBA the professional. basketball league for women and it's. just a very different thing you know. it's a league that has gotten far fewer. viewers than women's college basketball. it is a league that doesn't have the. attendance of the games that kin Clark. has been playing in at Iowa and for some. context there were more than 9 million. people almost 10 million people who. watched the national championship game. the Caitlin Clark played in last year in. the college tournament the WNBA finals. last year for the professional League. were viewed by under a million people so.

we're talking about you know a fraction. a tenth so much less so much less and. you know cayin Clark is not making a. kind of formal salary as a player uh in. college but her stature does afford her. a kind of profile that has made the. sponsorships possible that has made her. earning potential pretty stratospheric. and it's hard to say if that will. translate in a league where the. viewership is not the same you know. being the biggest star in college. basketball at the moment affords you a. bigger platform than being the biggest. star in the.

WNBA it's just not consumed in the same. way that college sports has been and why. is that mat I think there a couple. reasons there is this kind of tribal. quality to college sports fandom you. know you you go to a school you become a. fan of a school you live in an area you. become a fan of that. team the WNBA is such a young league. it's you know barely older than Caitlyn. Clark is there hasn't necessarily been. that same attachment formed to the teams. and despite a lot of really passionate. fans and some improvements in attention.

over the years there was the Olympic. team having women's basketball in 1996. there was the onset of WNBA obviously. there have been moments with stars in. the league like Amaya Mo Diana terazzi. but it hasn't sustained in the way that. I think some might have hoped okay so. far lower viewership I'm assuming that. that's translating into lower salaries. it does far lower salaries Kaitlin Clark. who's wiely expected to be the first. pick in the draft for the WNBA will make.

about $75,000 in salary wow for rookie. season that's pretty low it's pretty low. particularly when you compare it to the. NBA the first pick last year makes about. $12 million this year and it just. accelerates on the veter in scale too so. you have like the very best players in. the wda making you know more than. $200,000 as the kind of ceiling but. we're talking about just a totally. different Stratosphere than the men's. game where you have all sorts of. contracts in the tens of millions per. per year Caitlin Clark's been compared.

to Steph Curry in the NBA the incredible. shooter from Golden State he makes about. $50 million a year God that's a huge. differential huge differential so what. you've seen a lot of female players do. over the years is supplement that income. by playing abroad in other leagues. professionally this is why Britney. grinder was in Russia it's why players. have traveled internationally for many. years to try to make some of that money. that wasn't available to them in WNBA. salary some other way okay so Caitlyn. Clark had this decision to make Go Pro. or stay another year in her college team.

what did she decide to do she decided to. go pro and I think there are a couple of. reasons for that I think there's a real. strong basketball case going back to. Iowa having that experience again maybe. she doesn't grow as a player in the same. way that she might to GoPro compete. against the best there's also the. sponsorship side she actually can you. know retain a lot of the sponsors that. she's had Gatorade sticking with her. Nike is going to be around and you know. I think there's a sense that she might. be the exception that changes things she.

hopes that she is part of the you know. next generation of players who can draw. more eyeballs to that League who can. maybe over the long run raise salaries. bring sponsorship dollars to the pros. she also can't St in college forever she. can't be in Iowa until she's 40 so. essentially Caitlyn's bet here is that. she can take all of her Firepower that. she has right now and potentially. transform women's basketball but How. likely is that really matter. you know it's hard to know at this point.

there are some data points so far that. are pretty encouraging if you're Caitlyn. Clark and the WNBA tickets are already. being sold ticket prices are up because. of the demand for games for the Indiana. Fever who have the first pick in the. professional draft coming up are. expected to take Caitlyn Clark so this. hasn't even happened yet she has not. been officially selected first and we're. already seeing ticket prices and ticket. sales spiking wow in anticipation for. Caitlin Clark showing up but I think. there is a sense that she is entering. the league on a different level of. stature with a different profile but.

it's untested so Matt what does the. phenomenon of Caitlyn Clark tell us. about women's sports it tells us it's. come a pretty long way you know in some. ways she's kind of the culmination of. this long Arc that dates to Title 9. which was you know legislation that. dictated that there could not be. discrimination on the basis of sex and. was applied widely to sports creating. opportunities for women and at the time. obviously this had to be legislated this.

had to be mandated what is happening now. with Caitlyn Clark this is the free. market deciding that they're pretty. interested in women's sports you know. Sports is a business and there is a. strong business case as many sponsors. are deciding for themselves to watch. Caitlyn Clark to follow Caitlyn Clark. for leagues to want Caitlyn Clark in. their midst and then there's the sort of. broader cultural Point her coaches have. talked about just the role model she is. for tenacity and you know she was given. a technical foul last year after saying. damn it to her after she missed a shot. it's the sort of thing that would like.

never be penalized in the men's game. they printed T-shirts that said damn it. and she posed with somebody like she has. owned the the kind of competitive streak. that men have been owning for so long. and I think modeling that beyond the. sort of business case is a real Legacy. that she's left yeah like don't judge me. differently right don't judge me. differently and you know her coach still. thinks that there is not as much. latitude given to to women athletes and. I think that's certainly true but it's. moved some I think there is certainly. more space given to that kind of. competitive fire and a female athlete.

than there might have been even a few. years. [Music]. ago Matt thank you very much thank you. very. much Iowa is scheduled to play on. Saturday it will be the first game of. the last tournament of Caitlyn Clark's. college. [Music]. career.

we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today Texas scored a fleeting win in its. fight with the Biden Administration over. a controversial immigration law that law. would allow Texas police to arrest. migrants Crossing into the US illegally. the administration argues that that. immigration policy and Foreign Affairs.

are the purview of the federal. government but Texas argues the law is. authorized by a clause of the. Constitution that allows States in rare. circumstances to take action if they are. quote invaded an argument that a lower. court rejected in February on Tuesday a. US Supreme Court procedural ruling. briefly allowed the law to take effect. causing some confusion at the border. until an appeals court put the the law. back on.

hold Texas will press its case for the. law in oral arguments before the fifth. Circuit Court of Appeals in early April. a decision to let the law take effect. would upset Decades of legal precedent. Texas governor Greg Abbott said that he. expects the constitutionality of the law. will eventually be decided by the. Supreme. [Music]. Court today's episode was produced by. Clare tennis Olivia Nat Alex Stern and. Michelle Banja with help from mu zadii.

it was edited by Lexi Dio and Michael. benois fact checked by Susan Lee. contains original music by Marian Lozano. Alicia BBE Dan Powell and Rowan Nimo and. was engineered by Alyssa Moxley our. theme music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. Lanser of. [Music]. wonderly. [Music].

that's it for the daily I'm Serina. Tavern see you. [Music]. tomorrow.