The Blurry Line Between Rap Star and Crime Boss

from New York Times I'm Michael baboro. this is the. [Music]. daily as a racketeering trial begins in. Atlanta much of the focus is on the. high-profile defendant the best-selling. rapper Young. Thug but as my colleague Joe costarelli. explains in a very real sense Hip Hop.

itself is on. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. trial it's Tuesday December. [Music]. 5th Joe tell us about this trial that. began last week in Atlanta.

this is a crazy trial you've probably. heard of fonnie Willis she's the. district attorney in fton County which. covers a lot of Atlanta and she's become. a national figure over the last few. months largely because she brought a. criminal racketeering case or Rico as. it's more commonly known against. President Trump and his allies like Rudy. Giuliani right we've covered it. extensively on the show right and that's. about their efforts in Georgia. specifically to overturn the president. presal elction in 2020 she's using that.

same legal strategy against criminal. street gangs and one in particular she. says is run by Young Thug or Jeffrey. Williams who's one of the most. successful and influential rappers of. his time and that's what puts him in. your world because you are a music. writer at the times yes I have been. covering music here for 10 years and. because of that timing that means I've. covered a lot of rap music we are in an. era where hip-hop is the most popular.

genre in the country and probably the. world and Atlanta is really its Beating. Heart and has been for a long time I. wrote a book called rap Capital about. the city of Atlanta and I spent a lot of. time in Atlanta with rappers and. specifically in Cleveland Avenue which. is the neighborhood that Young Thug and. his friends and collaborators and. Associates come from okay so let's start. with the man at the center of this fonny. will prosecution Young Thug tell us what.

we need to know about him Young Thug was. born Jeffrey Williams in the south of. Atlanta he comes from the Jonesboro. housing projects which was a notoriously. rough place to grow up he's the 10th of. 11 children and starting about a decade. [Music]. ago he begins to make a name for himself. as one in a long line of rap innovators. from Atlanta like Andre 3000 from. Outcast with songs like Pikachu and.

[Music]. Stoner and in 2012 2013 2014 he's really. pushing the limits of what you could. dress like what you could sound like you. could sing and be. [Music]. AER Young Thug sort of takes that baton. and he carries it for the city starting. with a collection of very strange very.

experimental. songs his lyrics are quite abstract a. lot of the time um and his voice is. magical in a lot of. ways and for a while he's a bit of an. Internet curio people don't know if he's. good for hip-hop at one point he puts on. a dress uh and this is really messing. with the sort of ma chismo of the.

gangster rapper and then years later he. says in fact I was wearing the dress. because I was hiding a machine gun. underneath so that's really the two. sides of Young Thug he's he's a bit of a. prince like figure and I mean Prince the. musician he sounds like people who came. before him but then all mutated and even. weirder and along the way people really. take to this stuff he becomes an. extremely popular musician and in. Atlanta he becomes a figurehead and. somebody who can choose who gets to make.

it next and he starts this Collective. that he calls YSL as in the famous. French fashion brand it's definitely a. reference to that but some people say it. stands for Young Stoner life young slime. life or in in some cases young. successful life and up under this. Collective YSL led by Young Thug come a. few more successful rappers some of whom. are his friends growing up in his old. neighborhood and some of whom he just. plays Talent SC out and plucks them from.

from other neighborhoods in the city but. he's really really a leader of hip hop. in the place that often leads the. conversation about rap in America in. short things are going extremely well. for him so what happens next Young Thug. starts to cross over into the mainstream. now he's working with pop singers he's. on this Camila Cabo song from 2017. called. Havana this song hits number one on the. Billboard Hot 100 which is the all genre.

chart mhm and then all of a sudden Young. Thug is a superstar he's in fashion. magazines he's playing you know Late. Night with Jimmy Fallon performing fate. from Creed to the album give it up for. Mike Will made it sway Lee and Young. Thug he has a number one album of his. own called so much fun in. 2019 but he really becomes this figure.

who functions like any other mainstream. pop star even though he's seemingly. Breaking All the Rules musically at the. same time during his rise he's. developing a bit of a reputation as an. outlaw a bad boy which you know is quite. storied in hip-hop you think of someone. like Tupac or like 50 Cent and their. extracurricular struggles are a big part. of what people love about their music. and their Persona and so along the way.

as Young Thug's finding all of this. commercial success he's also running. into trouble with the law he gets. arrested here and there on drug and gun. charges he's accused of threatening. security guard at the mall one time and. none of this stuff really is resolved in. court it just seems to go away and he. just keeps finding more and more success. in music in the fall of 2021 he's on. Saturday Night Live Once Again Young. Thug and he's with his Protege gunana.

who's becoming almost as popular as he. is they play the song love you more. I and it feels like they're on top of. the world and they're only getting. bigger and then on May 9th 2022 the. entire music world is shocked when fonny. Willis's office in Fulton County drops a. huge indictment against Young Thug and. YSL his rap crew it is our allegation.

that they operated as a criminal Street. gang and commence to do havoc in our. community and what exactly is the. accusation in the indictment obviously. it involves racketeering Rico but. specifically what's the case being made. funny Willis's office in Fulton County. is alleging that young thug Jeffrey. Williams is the head of YSL which was. not only a rap Collective but a criminal. street gang terrorizing the Streets of. Atlanta and specifically the Cleveland. Avenue neighborhood where where Young. Thug grew up I believe that people in.

that neighborhood and at every corner of. Fon County deserve to be safe even if it. is financially lower socially. economically you know I don't think that. that Bel part of the community should be. left behind and terrorizing how. according to the ignment the prosecutors. say that YSL was a subset of the. national Bloods that functioned with. Williams as its leader and that he. oversaw crimes like murder attempted. murder armed robbery witness. intimidation drug dealing and more fact.

that Cleveland in our community is. referred to as beveland that it is. somewhere where just violence occurs. where they're marking up territory it's. blood territory um it's horrible and. you're basically this group which does. produce music and is a hugely successful. musical operation is also a criminal. operation a gang and not only that but. that they are using the music to promote. the gang how by using the music to.

advertise the gang essentially to flaunt. just how scary and successful they are. it's a really kind of shocking. accusation completely and it sort of. turns on its head the idea of gangs that. we are used to as a culture H just. explain that traditionally we think of. the Bloods and the Crips and these West. Coast gangs that were such a big part of. popular culture in the 1980s and 90s as.

these hierarchical organizations where. people on the street commit crimes to. make money they fight over territory for. drug dealing or. robberies and that money Works its way. up a pyramid what fonny Willis in her. office is saying is that Young Thug's. success as a rapper in fact allowed him. to control people underneath him and to. fund their illegal exploits as opposed. to their drug dealing funding him. fascinating it's a reversal he the rap.

artist is underwriting a gang there are. little accusations of drug dealing and. robbery and stuff in here but they're. not saying that this was the main. business they're saying that rap was the. main business and the gang was just. bolstering its reputation through both. the crimes and the music what did you. make of that set of claims when you. heard them and what did everybody else. in hip-hop make of them I think for a.

lot of people who follow rap music very. closely like myself you sort of know. that there's this connection to. potentially a criminal underworld this. has been inextricable in the genre. throughout its history and in many ways. what these artists are selling is. authenticity they are documenting where. they come from and who they are but what. this indictment was saying was like What. if this rap is too. real. and we're going to see that all play out.

in. [Music]. court we'll be right. [Music]. back so Joe bring us into the courtroom. as this unusual trial gets underway over. the past few days this trial was. originally going to include 28.

defendants including Young Thug over the. last year plus a lot of those people. have taken guilty pleas some of the. cases have been severed So Young Thug. Jeffrey Williams is currently being. tried alongside five other individuals. and that seems notable because plea. deals in a racketeering case usually are. very bad news for the person at the top. of the case which in this case is Young. Thug It means that the lower down folks. have basically started cooperating with. the prosecutor yes the whole idea of.

Rico which originally started as a way. to take down organized crime like the. mafia was you roll up all the little. guys on the street and to save. themselves they say who on the top of. the food chain was making these calls. right they don't have Young Thug saying. on a wir tap go kill this guy for me. they don't have him saying yell needs. you to do this yell needs you to do that. they're saying that this is an Unwritten. contract that these are expectations.

that these guys share almost psychically. because of how they've come up and how. they've pledged allegiance to this. criminal Enterprise in YSL okay so when. the trial got underway last week in. Atlanta let me know you're ready mam all. right if you wish to make an open. statement at this point in time please. go ahead all. right now this is the law of the. jungle for the. strength of the pet is the wolf.

and the string of the wolf is the. P you had Adrien love the prosecutor. from fonny Willis's office starting with. a quote from Kipling's The Jungle Book. and what I expect the evidence to show. in this case is that. YSL YSL operated as a pack saying YSL. operated as a pack and Young Thug was. the head of that pack and they knew what. they were supposed to do to obey him and. his wishes YSL or young.

slim was born and the defendant Jeffrey. Williams was its proclaimed. lead what she's doing here is trying to. prove a that a criminal Enterprise. existed in this case that YSL operated. as a criminal street gang that these. guys in particular were members of that. group and that they committed crimes in. furtherance of the group and what. evidence does a prosecutor lay out here. so they want to show that YSL exists as.

a gang and that these guys are members. so we're talking about everything from. hoodies they're wearing tattoos they. have Instagram posts even emojis a green. heart emoji and a green snake Emoji. which I expect the evidence will show. are the common identifiers associated. with. Rell they're the identifiers that they. use to announce and project themselves. to of the world they say that the use of.

green hearts or the snake emoji that. that is how members of YSL show their. allegiance and signal to other people. that they are part of this criminal. street gang okay so that's the. prosecutor's efforts to try to prove. membership and the existence of this. operation which as you said is very. important what is the evidence that the. prosecutor lays out that actual crimes. were committed by this operation so. there are a bunch of little crimes that.

might seem disperate an armed robbery. gun possession drug possession things. like that but there's one murder that's. really at the heart of this case that on. January 10th at about 7:00 in the. evening Donovan Thomas was living in. best he was in January of 2015 an. alleged gang member by the name of. Donovan Thomas Jr who's known as nut or. big nut was killed in a driveby shooting. outside of a barber shop up in Atlanta.

you'll see evidence that Donovan Thomas. was literally in the. middle of laughing it up with his. friends when a car drives by an open. Spight fny Willis's office says that YSL. is responsible and that this set off a. chain of events a gang war unlike. Atlanta had ever seen in which more than. 50 shootings take place as retribution. for this killing and how does the. prosecution link this 2015 murder to YSL.

and to Young Thug two of the guys being. tried alongside Young Thug are charged. with executing the actual shooting of. Donovan Thomas but they're also saying. that young thug helped organize and. arrange it that he approved it in part. by renting the car that committed the. driveby the evidence is going to show. that the defendant Jeffrey Williams. rented a car that other YSL members used. used when they openly and notoriously.

Gunn down Donovan Thomas on January the. 10th of. 2015 Donan Thomas was killed in front of. a Chevy Tahoe an SUV and prosecutors are. also pointing to specific Young Thug. lyrics where he says for instance 100. rounds in a Tahoe meaning bullet holes. they say and you'll see that Donovan. Thomas's Taho had both. defects all along the back. when they sprayed Donan Thomas and his.

car on January the 10th of. 2015 and they're claiming that he was. rapping about this specific murder so. essentially the prosecution is arguing. that young thug kind of implicates. himself for this murder in song yeah in. fact they say he's bragging about it h. okay so how do Young Thug his attorneys. respond to all of this evidence and to. this larger argument in their defense.

Young Thug's lawyer Brian steel got up. there for his own opening statement and. he said it's all made up Young Thug is. being targeted because he is a. successful rapper and that to be a. successful rapper these days these are. just the things that you rap about they. want you to fear music that talks about. killing drugs it is Art you rap about. guns you rap about drugs drive by. shooting. this is tried and true material for.

gangster rap he went so far as to call. Young Thug a studio gangster saying that. he basically made all this up and it's. no different from Robert dairo and good. fellow you will learn that this is part. of being involved in Hip Hop it is. generating. advertising it's branding he refers to. himself as young thug because most. people think about a thug as a criminal. he says Thug it's self is an acronym he.

would be truly humble under God that's. what Thug means not to mean that he does. bad but to mean that he is truly humble. under God H and sure maybe he has a. Bloods tattoo that's what sells maybe he. is flaunting YSL as a gang in his music. but that's all a Persona and if they. can't link actual real life crimes to. Young Thug and YSL then what is he even.

doing here in court what the defense is. really saying is that when it comes to. this question of authenticity at the. heart of Hip Hop and this trial Young. Thug isn't as authentic as the. prosecutors are saying yeah and that he. basically used the tropes of an existing. genre to make it out of horrible poverty. that he looked at what worked in rap. music and he made that part of his. person. and yes he speaks about killing 12 and.

people being shot and drugs and Drive by. shootings this is the environment that. he grew up these are the people he knew. these are the stories he knew they're. basically arguing that young thug comes. from a horrible neighborhood he makes it. out he's the most famous person to ever. come from where he comes from and all of. these guys want to impress him so. everybody doing petty crime on their own.

sure maybe they think they're doing it. in service of this musical Superstar you. will learn that Jeffrey doesn't even. know most of the people in this. indictment they all know him because. everybody in that area knows Jeffrey. Willams he is known as the Michael. Jordan of that. area but Young Thugs lawyer Brian steel. says he doesn't even know some of these. people in the indictment they're all. just trying to get his attention. and how does the defense respond to some.

of the specific evidence that the. prosecutors put forward around that 2015. murder you mentioned as being so Central. to this case including the Chevy Tahoe. lyrics Young Thug's lawyer Brian steel. speaking about the Chevy Tahoe came. right out and said all of these lyrics. are subject to interpretation they're. generic and is it 100 rounds in a Tahoe. like buet hit a Tahoe or is there. someone driving a Tahoe with 100 rounds. up to The Listener I guess he says 100.

rounds in a Tahoe does that mean bullet. holes in a Tahoe or does that mean. somebody carrying a gun within a Tahoe. the next line has Taco rhyming and. Thug's lawyer is saying sure maybe these. crimes occurred but you cannot connect. them to an artist because he made work. that seems to resemble it these are not. confessions this not. admissions this is art. so somebody watching this trial very.

closely how strong how weak does the. prosecution's case appear to be at this. point it's early but I'm going to. imagine you have started to think about. that question I think this is a very. very complex case and it is hard to. explain to a jury how all of these. disparate crimes from across nearly a. decade committed by many different. people are all connected to one. organization ation and specifically one. man in Young Thug so I think they're.

being very deliberate about laying out. the information that they have and. trying to prove their case one witness. at a time they say they might call up to. 400 people to testify this could take a. very very very long time I think there's. still a lot of evidence yet to be seen. including testimony from people who say. they were active members of YSL and. we're going to see how that plays out. over the following months let's just. assume for a moment that the prosecution. is successful here and that young thug. is found in some way guilty of leading a.

criminal. conspiracy what is that going to mean. for The Wider world that you cover the. world of hip-hop I think it potentially. has seismic effects on this strain of. popular rap music so much of it is. about believing these artists that they. really come from the life that they say. they do and that they really do the. things that they're rapping about there. are many young fans around the country.

who are invested in that. idea and yet if the prosecution can. successfully say that all of this gang. imagery these videos these lyrics these. social media are the glue that holds. together a criminal conspiracy then I. think there are a lot of rappers out. there who are going to second guess the. way they present themselves and the way. they talk about where they come from and. then when you think about these. communities themselves the city of. Atlanta and Cleveland Avenue the. neighborhood that young thug comes from.

you have the prosecution saying that YSL. was terrorizing this neighborhood and. that now it should be a safer place but. if in fact Young Thug is a product of. his environment and this is going to. continue with or without him this cycle. like that's where we get a lot of this. rap music is because these neighborhoods. are neglected because there's no. infrastructure no education so I think. that it leaves us in a tough place. are we saving these communities by.

taking these artists out of them or is. he the pride of the community and in. fact made something great out of. something. horrible is a successful prosecution. here not just a kind of legal framework. for going after other hip-hop groups but. is it going to deprive the city of. Atlanta potentially of something or make. it better yeah like is the WRA the cause. or is wrap the. effect. [Music].

well Joe thank you very much thanks for. having. [Music]. me we'll be right back.

here's what else you need to know today. on Monday the times reported that the. Israeli military has begun an invasion. of Southern Gaza a long awaited. operation that could decide the fate of. its war with Hamas and put Palestinian. civilians in even greater Peril now that.

Israel has overtaken parts of Northern. Gaza Southern Gaza is the last section. of the territory Under full Hamas. control Israel is expected to focus its. attacks on the city of Han yunes where. Israel believes hamas's military and. political leadership has sought shelter. since fleeing the North and the White. House has warned Congressional leaders. that the United States will run out of. money to send weapons to Ukraine by the.

end of the year unless lawmakers quickly. approve emergency military aid the. warning was President Biden's latest. attempt to pressure Republicans. especially in the house to further fund. Ukraine's military without the money. according to the White House Ukraine's. ability to defend itself against Russia. would be in jeopardy.

today's episode was produced by Sydney. Harper and Michael Simon Johnson with. help from Luke Vander plug it was edited. by John Ketchum Michael Beno and Brendan. clink BG contains original music by. Diane Wong and Pat mccusker and was. engineered by Alyssa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansburg of wonderly.

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Michael. Boro see you. [Music]. tomorrow.