The Biden Problem Democrats Can No Longer Ignore

from New York Times I'm Michael borro. this is the. [Music]. daily for months Democrats have downplay. questions about President Biden's age. and his. memory that just got much harder to. do my colleague Peter Baker explains.

[Music]. [Applause]. it's Wednesday February. [Music]. 14th Peter when the special Council. report was released a few days ago and. ignited into a national conversation. about President Biden's age and memory.

all of us here at the daily thought of. you because you've covered Biden for. decades now you've seen him up close as. a senator as vice president now. president you've watched him age and in. your role as chief White House. correspondent you've been examining what. it means for Biden to be the oldest. president in American history so I just. want to start there with your own. observations well yeah the reality is. that Joe Biden has age and it's hard not. to notice and I think over the past few.

years that aging has been a a pronounced. process there's a real change occurring. not surprising it's normal for somebody. of his age in many ways obviously he's. as healthy and vigorous as any 81y old. you can see he rides bikes he exercises. but it's hard not to notice when you. watch him up close well just explain. what you mean when you talk about this. aging like you said everyone ages but. let's talk about the specifics of Biden. Aging Care well there's the Public. Presentation right what you see when he.

shows up in the East room for instance. or the podium you see it in his gate. first thing out right he's walking to. the podium and he kind of shuffles now. into rooms and he has taken a few Falls. recently you know he once fell on his. bike and that was recorded by cameras. which was embarrassing to him so that's. the visual element that's what we see. and then you know there's also the. verbal element they had to work hard to. show patience and be willing to travel. over a thousand miles you could say even.

this harder than getting a a ticket to. the Renaissance tour or or. or rip pitney's tour she's down in it's. kind of warm in Brazil right now you can. hear him in his extemporaneous speaking. sometimes Trail off mids sentence with. 40% of all products coming into the. United States of America on the west. coast go through uh Los Angeles and uh. and uh um uh um.

what am I doing here is it Long Beach. Long Beach thank you or you know. struggling to find his way back there is. some movement and I don't want to I. don't want. to well maybe choose my words there's. some movement there's been a. response. from the. uh the there's been a response again. that's not unusual for somebody of his.

age but it comes across more pronounced. when you're president the United States. and the cameras are on you so intensely. right and I think what really stands out. for a lot of people particularly lately. has been his memory you know he will. confuse people for instance mentioning. helmet Cole when he means Angela Merkel. different chancellors of Germany helmet. Cole of course been dead for a number of. years same with France he confused Fran. midan the late president of France with. Emanuel mron the current president of.

France in my reporting even talking with. people about private Ms with the. president what's striking is like. Administration officials for instance. who haven't seen him in a while or. former AIDS who are catching up with. them after a number of months what. they'll say is how surprised they are at. how much he is aged they too notice it. when they haven't seen him for a while. and it's been striking to them so it's. not just even what the reporters are. seeing but the people who are around. them Peter I'm curious in your reporting.

how you're separating what might be kind. of superficial about what for example. these former AIDS are telling you or. what we all see you know the president. forgetting a foreign Leader's name. mistaking it how you separate. potentially a common variety of someone. getting old and having a lapse from. what's truly worrisome about this as a. journalist yeah I mean that that's a. fair question and what we've tried to do.

is do a lot of reporting to distinguish. between the two right between The. Superficial does it really matter if he. gets the name wrong here or there and is. his judgment affected is his ability to. process information and make important. decisions affected and that's that's. what really of course matters most in a. president a commander-in-chief. especially a time when we have so many. crises and so a few months ago right a. team of us at the time spent weeks. talking to dozens of people around Biden. and what we found is basically there are.

sort of these two bidens coexisting side. by side there's the one who does forget. names and places and may Trail off in. the middle of a thought but then there's. a Biden that behaves the way you would. expect a president to act you know to. really Grill his Aids on what's going on. and make sure he has all the information. in fact to correct them when he thinks. that they're wrong to make crisp. decisions when they are necessary to. make wise decisions in the face of these. enormous challenges and crises that a. president can face and so there's one.

story for instance about the president. being on a trip to to Asia a number of. months back and being woken in the. middle of the night to find out that a. missile had struck Poland which of. course is a NATO Ally of America and. this is a real crisis because the fear. was that Russia in its war with Ukraine. had hit a NATO Ally which would have. been a massive escalation right I. remember it right and and in the middle. of the night he's woken up to deal with. this crisis and as his AIDS describe it. and of course this his AIDS not there.

but as they describe it you know he does. what you want a president to do he gets. in touch with the president of Poland. and the NATO Secretary General and he. really leads the world through this. crisis and as they discover fortunately. it turned out not to be a Russian. missile it was not an intentional. escalation and the crisis was diffused. but that's the two bidens you're seeing. the one that you don't see as much on TV. or in public who is doing the job that. the voters want them to do right the. conclusion you and our colleagues seem. to have drawn and correct me if I'm. wrong is that even if Biden's memory and.

his verbal agility is in any kind of. decline in the moments that matter the. president functions highly and in those. moments of functioning highly most of. them are off camera yeah that's right. look I in interviewing all these people. who have been around them AIDS. Administration officials allies. Congressional officials even foreign. diplomats nobody has said to me they. don't think he can do the job nobody. said that they think that the issues. that trouble a lot of Americans about.

his appearance or you know his clear. aging have affected his capacity to make. the decisions that you would want a. president to make now what a lot of. people do have concern about including. some people around him is you know where. this could lead if he's able to make. these decisions in the way he does now. that's one thing what will it be like a. year from now or if he wins another. election 5 years from now he would be 86. at the end of a second term and that's. that's the question I think a lot of. Voters are going to ask right so even.

those around him who are quick to tell. you there's no problem with President. Biden's ability to function this job. period say but if you're asking us what. will it look like in four years and a. second term there's some pause there at. least among some of them right there are. a lot of people in the administration. who will in a you know candid moment. maybe over a glass of wine at night or. when they're certainly not on the record. then you would hear from some administ. ation officials anyway this concern.

about what things may be like in a year. or especially 5 years and they. understand just like a lot of Americans. do that that a lot can happen between. now and then but at the same time of. course it's a binary Choice the other. candidate here is not exactly a younger. generation that's Donald Trump he's 77. and he has his own public memory lapses. and confusion over issues and names have. weaponized law enforcement to arrest. their leading political opponent and.

leading by a lot including Obama I'll. tell you what you take a look at Obama. and take a look at some of the things. that he's done this is the same thing. the country is very divided and we did. with Obama we won an election that. everyone said couldn't be won and all. kinds of other you know uh things he. says that seem to indicate cognitive. issues with age we have a man who is. totally corrupt and the worst president. in the history of our country who is. cognitively impaired in no condition to.

lead and is now in charge of dealing. with Russia and possible nuclear war. just think of. it we would be in World War. II difference is of course that Trump. speaks with such bombastic energy that. it sort of conveys something different. and the polls show that while a lot of. Americans are also concerned about. Trump's age and he also would be the. oldest president in history if he wins.

and finishes a four-year term not as. many voters are quite as concerned as. they are with Biden that the age issue. has definitely been more damaging. politically for Biden so far than it has. been for Trump right so fairly or. unfairly and I'm sure to those in Biden. world it's. unfair the reality is that the age issue. Cuts both ways but it seems to bruise. Biden more right so I think it's fair to. say that is the complicated back. backdrop against which the Special.

counsil Report is released exactly so. Robert her was the special Council. appointed by attorney general Merrick. Garland to look into why President Biden. had kept classified documents from his. time as vice president even going back. to his time as Senate and these. documents were found in his office and. Home in Wilmington Delaware that's not. where they're supposed to be right and. of course president Trump since he had. already been investigated for something. similar they had to make sure to look at.

this in a serious way as well so Robert. her was a republican us attorney. appointed by Trump and then picked by. Merck Garland to handle this very. delicate case because that way you know. nobody could say that if he uh found no. issue that he was a partisan Democrat in. fact he has a pretty nonpartisan. reputation and he'd spent a long time. like about a year looking into this and. he decides that there is not a crime. here to charge President Biden with. which is obviously a big relief to the.

president but this legal exoneration is. unfortunately for Biden a political. nightmare the bombshell in the report is. why Robert her says he can't charge the. president and one of the reasons he says. the president's memory is so bad that he. couldn't establish Biden's intent to. willfully retain the documents or why. these documents were stored the way that. they were MH which is an extraordinary. claim I mean to some it was inflammatory.

how does the special counsil how does. her. justify coming to that conclusion that. the reason or a big reason he can't. charge Biden is because the president's. memory is so faulty right exactly so her. sits down with President Biden for five. hours of interviews over two days and in. his report her tis through these key. moments when the president can't seem to. remember important moments or at least. remember the specifics of when they. happened for instance he said he.

couldn't remember reading out loud his. notes to the ghost writer of one of his. books although obviously he did do that. and in Reading those out read Out. classified information he couldn't. remember exactly when he was vice. president at one point he says if it was. 2013 when did I stop being vice. president he was trying to recall in. 2009 am I still vice president so he. couldn't place the dates correctly at. least not initially and the according to. Robert her even most explosively.

President Biden couldn't remember the. year that his son Bo died even within. several years and I think that in. particular was a powerful thing for. Robert herd to report so in the end her. writes in his report quote a jury would. not convict him because he seems like a. well-meaning elderly man with memory. problems right I think a lot of people. who saw that language Peter thought does.

this special Council have it in for Joe. Biden I mean you described him as. nonpartisan but this is a very official. legal document and the conclusions and. the language that he arrives at are. pointed and seemingly embarrassing and. in the context of a campaign pretty. damaging and so the thinking becomes is. there a backstory here we need to. understand right yeah that's a fair.

question and after all the special. Council was tasked with looking into. mishandling classified documents not the. president's mental acuity but you know. for Robert Herr he felt the need to. justify his decision not to bring. criminal charges and so the examples. needed I suppose in his mind to be as. revealing and telling as they were in. order to explain the conclusion that he. made right because whatever this issue. was before this report was released. Biden his age his memory all those.

questions it was suddenly on steroids it. was suddenly something really hard to. not look at and talk about and think. about absolutely this is not a poll this. is not a reporter writing a story it's. not a columnist or a commentator making. gratuitous comments it's not Republicans. you know chopping up his videos and and. putting them out in a damaging way this. is an official report and it is saying. that a a conclusion about whether or not.

to charge president United States has. been based on his ability to remember. things or not remember things as the. case may be and the line then becomes. well if he's not fit to be a defendant. in a trial is he fit to be president of. the United States and you can imagine. how this goes over in the white house. right this is infuriating to them Biden. land is absolutely livid the president. is absolutely livid and so he decides to. fight.

[Music]. back we'll be right. [Music]. back so Peter how does President Biden. end up fighting back against this. special Council report that turns out to. be so embarrassing for him. well on Thursday night just a few hours.

after the report comes out and without. any real notice to the White House Press. Corp everybody the president's staff. announces that he's going to make a. statement as you know the special. Council released this finding today. about they're looking to my handling of. classified documents me at first he. looks like he's taking a Victory lap I. was pleased to see he reached a firm. conclusion that no charges should be. brought against me in this case he's. talking about about how he has been.

exonerated and that is in fact still the. bottom line of the report the special. Council acknowledged I cooperated. completely he talks about how this you. know exhaustive investigation included. very long interviews in moments of. intense pressure I went forward with a. 5H hour inperson 5H hour inperson. interview over two days on October the. 8th and 9th of last year even though. Israel had just been attacked by Hamas. on the 7th and I was very occupied and. he cited special council's own.

statements praising him for his. cooperation which of course is in great. contrast to former president Trump right. who's charged with trying to literally. obstruct government officials who are. seeking classified documents back in. addition I know there's some attention. paid to some language in the report. about my recollection of events but then. the president goes on the attack there's. even reference that I don't. remember when my son. died how in the hell dare he raise that. and specifically Biden mentions the part.

of the report that says he couldn't. remember when his son died and this. point you see the anger especially in. his face and he's kind of gritting his. teeth almost as he's responding frankly. when I was asked the question I thought. to myself wasn't any of their damn. business right he's angry but he's not. denying any of hers clams about memory. lses no he's not denying the very. specific things that her is saying he's.

most upset that it suggests that he. doesn't remember his son's death and of. course he remembers his son's death that. was one of the most sering moments of. his life Robert her wasn't saying he. didn't remember that Robert her was. saying he didn't remember the date right. but for President Biden it was a step. too far it was an inflammatory thing to. say their task was to make a decision. about whether to move forward with. charges in this case that was their. decision to make that's a council's. decision to make that's his job and they. decided not to move forward for any. extraneous commentary they don't know.

what they're talking about it has no. place in this report the bottom line is. a matter is now closed I'm going to. continue what I've always focused on my. job of being president of the United. States of America now thank you and I'll. take some questions and then there's a. feisty question and answer session with. the White House Press Corp on all these. issues right President Biden something. the special counsil said in his report. is that one of the reasons you were not.

charged is because in his description. you are a well-meaning elderly man with. a poor memory I'm well-meaning and I'm. an elderly man and I know what the hell. I'm doing I've been president most. dramatically he has his back and forth. with a Fox news reporter Peter Ducey who. asks him can you continue put this. country back on his feet I don't need. his recommendation to how bad is your. memory and can you continue as president. my memory is so bad I let you speak.

Biden pushes it back on him saying my. memory is so bad I let you speak and I. think that was an effective moment for. Biden to kind of turn the question back. around right and so this is almost a. very effective moment of political. performance until it's not yeah he's so. close thank you all very brand he's. walking out the door he has said what he. wants to say but he hears a question. about.

[Music]. Gaza and he decides to turn around and. come back to the podium and back to the. microphone to answer the question and he. gives some actually important news there. he says the. conduct of the. response in Gaza in the Gaza Strip has. been. um over the top that Israel's response. in Gaza was over the top that was much. sharper than he has said before but then.

he makes a mistake the president of. Mexico CCE did not want to open up the. gate to allow humanitarian material to. get in I talked to him he says the. president of Mexico when he means the. president of Egypt and it's not that big. a deal obviously but in this moment. right in this particular moment when. people are focused on his memory and his. ability to to speak correctly in the end. it distracts from the message he had.

just delivered about how sharp he was. right once this news conference is over. it did feel pretty clear that something. had changed right and that when it comes. to this question of his memory his. Acuity this was something of a turning. point and the question becomes how much. of a turning point does it matter will. it go away and I'm curious does this. moment change anything about how the.

Democratic party treats Biden at this. very important moment when he's the. presumed nominee coasting towards. becoming the Party's candidate for. reelection and does it change how Biden. conducts himself as president and as. candidate yeah let's start with the. party I mean there are Democrats like. David Axelrod who of course was Obama's. top adviser and who knows Biden well. from the time he was vice president who.

were saying that age is a real issue and. that they need to take it seriously they. have questioned whether it was a great. idea to nominated a candidate of this. age in a race that's so important from. the Democratic point of view to win but. is this a turning point in the. conversation I mean the thing is I think. prior to this report the White House had. done a pretty good job of trying to Tamp. down concern in the Democratic party to. the point where they had convinced a lot. of people who may have their doubts. about about him to recognize he was.

going to be their candidate anyway so it. was time to try to move on past that. issue and not focus on it and then you. have this report come out that puts it. front and center again and causes a lot. more hand ringing inside the party about. what they're going to do with a. candidate who's 81 years old yes but at. a stage in the Democratic nomination. process where it does feel more or less. impossible to do anything about it yeah.

I mean the reality is nobody can talk. Joe Biden out of running at this point. except maybe his wife and she's all on. board so he has spent decades trying to. become the president of the United. States and then you want to tell him not. to to run again no way you know he he. feels I think very grieved at this idea. that he shouldn't run for a second term. when he feels like he's done a really. good job in in the first term so far and. he also feels he is uniquely suited to. beat Donald Trump because he's the one. guy who did beat Donald Trump in 2020. right and in fact other Democrats.

deferred to him whether they thought it. was a good idea or not really nobody. challenged him I mean dean philps a. congressman from Minnesota got in the. race and he got clobbered in the New. Hampshire primary where Biden wasn't. even on the ballot and people wrote him. in so there is no plausible scenario at. this point for any candidate other than. President Biden unless something happens. between now and the election that forces. a change right nor and it seems. important to mention this is there. anything approaching a meaningful public.

call to even have that conversation at. this point exactly they recognize that. that conversation is too late to have at. this point and so a lot you hear from. some Democrats even the ones who are. uncomfortable by that you know a call to. say enough of the discussion about this. we need to figure out how to how to beat. the other guy not so much beating up on. our own guy right and so in effect the. Baseline strategy is to say okay sure. Biden is old but Trump is crazy that's. the argument they're going to make and.

wouldn't you rather have a well-meaning. but elderly guy to paraphrase Robert. Hort versus a person who in their View. and in the view of a lot of Americans is. reckless and dangerous and then Trump. himself decides to say something that. will play right into the Democratic. strategy well very much South Carolina. we've had a great relationship with. South Carolina thank you so in South. Carolina at a rally on Saturday just two.

days after the her report comes out and. he's talking about NATO and how NATO. members should be spending more on their. military and he's been pushing them to. do it and he recounts the story where he. says anyway a NATO Ally once asked him. well sir uh if we don't pay and we're. attacked by Russia will you protect us I. said you didn't pay you're delinquent if. we don't pay and we're attacked by. Russia will you protect us and he says. no no I would not protect you in fact I. would encour encourage them to do. whatever the hell they want you got to.

pay you got to pay your bills Not only. would I not protect you he says he would. encourage the Russians to do whatever. the hell they want in other words he. would encourage an enemy to attack. America's own treaty allies well most. politicians have said to that yes we. will protect you under any circum well. then they're never paying up right and. suddenly the question of Biden's age is. no longer the central story of the. moment and it's put in a very different.

perspective yeah absolutely is right. exactly it's not just that he changes. the subject which is important and. helpful to the Biden Camp is that he. helps the Biden people reframe the age. question to say which is more important. to you somebody who you know forgets a. name or can't uh summon a date or. somebody who would completely undermine. the entire International order as we. have known it for generations and from. their viewpoint helps put the age. question in perspective mhm but I think.

what's ultimately so fascinating about. this moment is the reality that Biden. those around him the Democratic party. arguably have made the choice in this. election perhaps more complicated than. it ever really needed to be if you think. that Trump is a unique threat and so. many Democrats argue that so when.

Democratic leaders argue that then you. have the hard but necessary debate about. whether the 81-year-old. President Joe Biden should be the. nominee whether it makes sense whether. it creates the strongest possible. chances for victory and Democrats didn't. do that they didn't they just pretty. much went through the motions to re. nominate Biden so how do you think about.

that yeah I mean I think that's a very. interesting question an important. question the party didn't really have. that conversation in an open way they. deferred to the incumbent president. because he wanted to run again and. because they thought at least at one. point that his argument that he was the. one person who could beat Trump would be. the safest Pair of Hands in a way but. the polls show he's not the polls show. that he's running even or even behind. former president Trump and in fact is.

not a guarantee to win in. 2024 right in other words the party made. a risky bet when their argument is that. the risk on the other side is. intolerable and to that point Peter how. does the president those around him the. party plan for a 10- monthlong campaign. now where eyes are trained on the. question of Biden his age his Acuity and.

what do we understand to be their. strategy for making the most of a pretty. tricky. situation yeah there's actually a lot of. debate and tension about this within. Biden World there are those who want to. protect him make sure that he doesn't. have too many opportunities to make. mistakes that would embarrass him and. there are those around him there are. people in The Wine House in the. administration I hear say let him loose. put him out there and he will do fine. most broadly though I think that broad. strategy is they're just going to have. to gut it.

out there's no chance of changing. candidates at this point so just live. with it make the contrast with former. president Trump make the argument that. you've got two old men both of whom have. their issues about age but that one of. them is a responsible actor and the. other's. not and the question is will they be. able to make that case to the American. public and will the American public buy. it well Peter thank you very much thank. you Michael great talking to.

[Music]. you we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to. another day today after not just a long. night and weekend but after months of. work we can say it's been worth it on.

Tuesday after months of tense bipartisan. negotiations the US Senate passed a long. awaited foreign aid package for Ukraine. and Israel that now appears doomed in. the US House the $95 billion Aid package. was originally linked to tougher. security measures at the US Mexico. border as Congressional Republicans had. demanded but once former president Trump. denounced that bill the Senate proceeded.

with legislation that funded Israel and. Ukraine without border security despite. overwhelming support for the legislation. in the Senate Republican house Speaker. Mike Johnson said he would refuse to. bring the bill up for a vote in his. chamber because it lacks border security. despite opposing the version of the bill. that contained border security and I. call on speaker Johnson to rise to the. occasion to do the right thing bring.

this bill to the floor in a speech on. Tuesday Democratic Senate Majority. Leader Chuck Schumer pleaded with. Johnson to change his mind it is clear. that if that bill is brought to the. floor our bill is brought to the floor. it will. pass and on this vote the Yer 214 and. the ner. 213 the resolution is adopted. House Republicans have impeached the.

Secretary of Homeland Security after. trying and failing to do so last week. Republicans have shown no evidence that. the secretary Alejandro morcus has. committed any constitutional crimes but. instead based their impeachment on. objections to his policies which they. say have failed to secure the Border. there is no chance that mayorcas will be. convicted Ed in the Senate which is. controlled by.

democrats finally in the closely watched. special election to fill the seat of. Republican representative George Santos. of New York who was expelled over his. lies and financial schemes the. Democratic candidate Tom swazi has. defeated his Republican. opponent because Democrats have flipped. the seat Republicans can now lose only. two votes on any part of and.

Bill today's episode was produced by. Carlos PRI and Michael Simon Johnson it. was edited by Rachel quer with help from. Paige cowt contains original music by. Chelsea Daniel and was engineered by. Chris Wood our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben lansberg of. [Music]. Wonderland that's it for the daily I'm. Michael see you tomorrow.

[Music].