The Arm-Twisting, Back-Stabbing Battle for House Speaker

from The New York Times I'm Michael. babbaro this is the. [Music]. daily the House of Representatives still. has no speaker crippling a vital branch. of the. government and it now appears that the. Republican in the strongest position to. win the job perhaps as soon as today is. best known for trying to obstruct the.

government I spoke with my colleague. Katie Edmonson about the latest turn in. The Saga of the leaderless. house it's Tuesday October. [Music]. 17th so Katie the last time that the. daily checked in on the soap opera that. is the Republican Le United States House. of repres Representatives speaker Kevin.

McCarthy had just been ousted from the. job this was on October 4th and so this. entire chamber of Congress was without a. leader for the first time in American. history and a few days after that I. spoke with one of the Republicans who. helped OU McCarthy representative Tim. burett of Tennessee and he confidently. predicted in our conversation that a new. speaker would be chosen in just a few. days and it turned out that he was wrong. because we're now in our third straight.

week without a house Speaker that's. right I mean the operative word that. we've been using all the time the word. that members themselves have been using. to describe this period as chaos and. it's never a good time for chaos to. reign in the House of Representatives. but this is a particularly bad time MH. you have two ongoing Wars right now you. have the war in Ukraine you have the. conflict in Israel and Gaza and. typically our allies would be looking to. the United States to send more military.

aid to help them but without a speaker. the house can't really move forward on. any legislation so as of now there's. really not an easy path for the US to. send any more Aid to our allies and if. you look a little further down the line. there is a deadline looming over all of. us in the middle of November for the. government to shut down unless Congress. passes spending bills to keep it open. and it is really hard to imagine the. house negotiating it side of the deal.

essentially when there's no speaker when. there's no one to negotiate the deal. exactly and so this is a really. important stretch for Congress and it's. a really bad time frankly not to have a. speaker in place so Katie why hasn't. this all gone the way that. representative burett and I presume many. of the people who ousted McCarthy all. thought that it would which is to say. why hasn't there been a quick move to. elect a new speaker well let's go back a.

couple of weeks to right after Kevin. McCarthy was ousted we saw two. conservatives who threw their names in. the ring to succeed him Jim Jordan of. Ohio and Steve scalise of Louisiana good. to be with y'all Mr scalise was Mr. McCarthy's Deputy he was the number two. house Republican and he's been in. Republican leadership in the house for. almost a decade now say look we want to. solve problems our members have of the.

best ideas we want to get good. conservative policy brought to the floor. he started his tenure n DC leading the. Republican study committee which is a. conservative policy oriented faction of. House Republicans and there are really. good ideas that are bipartisan ideas. that can get that economy moving again. we just wish that and being in. leadership for 10 years this is someone. who has been deeply in meshed in the. governance of the institution somebody. invested in making the place work rather.

than this brand of house Republican. we've all become very familiar with. since the Donald Trump era who is. willing to push the government off a. fiscal cliff shut it down block almost. any spending Bill scalise feels like a. bit more of a throwback to an earlier. kind of more pragmatic Republican yeah. that's right I don't think anyone would. dispute that he is a conservative. lawmaker but it is not in the type of. sort of populist fighter model that has.

become so popular on Capitol Hill that. Jim Jordan really embodies well tell us. more about the story of Jim Jordan this. second candidate who threw his hat into. the ring for speaker I always I always. tell folks don't don't don't clap you. haven't heard me say anything yet yeah. Jim Jordan of Ohio was one of the. original co-founders of the House. Freedom caucus and that was a group of. lawmakers that really came to prominence. during the Tea Party era here's the. pattern the government comes to the tax. says we need more of your money we need.

a boatload of your money the world's. going to end we're going to do it who. Define themselves as really willing to. go to extremes essentially to try to get. what they wanted which was to disrupt. the status quo in Washington you can't. keep raising the limit on a credit card. if you're not going to address the. problem long term understand that and. they showed that they were willing to. take in some cases the government. hostage such as forcing government. shutdowns and what I'm saying is we are. prepared to do what needs to be done to. address the underlying problems in this.

country Jordan himself really helped. orchestrate a government shutdown in. 2013 during the Obama presidency and. that was one of many factors that led. the Republican Speaker of the House John. Boehner to call him a legislative. terrorist and then I think more recently. people probably know him as a huge Trump. supporter someone who defended Trump. during his impeachment inquiries think. about it the same people who are who. told us you could trust the steel. dossier are now telling us you can trust.

the results of this election the same. people someone who stood by President. Trump when he falsely claimed that he. won the 2020 elections and was one of. the House Republicans who actually led. the effort to try to overturn the. election results on that vote on the. house floor on January 6th you know. something doesn't feel right here our. president got 9 million more votes this. time than he did four years ago and yet. he comes up short even though we gain. seats in the in the House of. Representatives something doesn't feel. right and that's now of course he's.

leading the charge or helping to lead. the charge to impeach President Biden so. unlike representative scalise who is. already in house Republican leadership. and is seen as a team player and a. policy oriented. conservative Jordan is more of a. renegade more of an insurgent and the. idea of him leading the house for many. I'm guessing would seem a little bit. more like a stretch than perhaps k.

yeah that's right I don't think the arc. from legislative terrorist to speaker is. you know necessary welln path yeah. exactly but you know Republicans have. this closed door meeting in the middle. of last week to decide their party's. nominee for speaker and as you might. expect scalise emerges with the most. support but it's not an overwhelming. Victory he wins 113 votes to Jordan's 99. right not exactly Landslide by 14 votes.

yeah that's right and you see sort of. the breakdown in those votes that you. might expect now it was a secret vote. but we know from what lawmakers told us. that in general a lot of the more. mainstream conservatives backed scalise. and the freedom caucus the hard right. lawmakers are backing Jordan MH so. normally at that juncture in time. lawmakers regardless of whether they. voted for scalise or not would pretty. much fall in line behind him because. because he's the nominee he's the.

nominee exactly they'd swallowed their. pride and vote for him pretty much. unanimously but instead after he wins. the nomination we almost start to see. immediately his support. erode why well first it doesn't help. that Jordan didn't endorse him normally. after that kind of vote you would expect. to see the person who lost say all right. you know it's time for the conference to. unify let's all vote for Steve and. Jordan did not do that he did not do it.

inside the conference room and he. notably declined to do so to reporters. even though we asked him several times. and so this all starts to sort of pile. up you see lawmakers who said that they. voted for Scully start to voice some. misgivings you see some hard right. lawmakers start to negotiate really in. the Press with scal saying that there. are certain pet issues that they want a. commitment from him that he'll adopt. it's not an easy task um you got to. listen to people and in what might be.

the cruestv McCarthy finds a TV camera. and says time is of the essence there's. not that much time left boy you know. Steve really is having a tough time do. you think it's possible that he can get. the votes possible it's a big hill. though is he told a lot of people he's. going to be at 150 and he wasn't there. so he's got an uphill battle here and uh. I don't know if he'll have the. votes.

and what do you make of that because he. had been scala's partner in governing. the whole house well that's right but I. mean I think historically there has been. a lot of animosity or there often is a. lot of animosity between the number one. and number two in the house and that. certainly was true for McCarthy and. scalise there's a history of Bad Blood. there and so that was really him. publicly twisting the knife so instead. of scalise finding that people are.

rallying around him everyone is Shing. him and demanding some special. dispensation and this is not going very. well at all that's right so SC is trying. to turn the tide here essentially he's. on the phone calling lawmakers he's. meeting with them one-on-one in the. leadership Suite he's having some of the. holdouts come meet with him and his. allies in groups just trying to find a. way essentially to break this impass but. it's just not working and he continues. to keep just hemorrhaging votes mhm so.

by the end of last week he does the math. hey first let me um I know we've been. following this it's been quite a journey. he realizes that he does not have the. votes to become speaker I just Shar with. my colleagues that I'm withdrawing my. name as a candidate for the speaker. designate and he announces that he's. withdrawing from running for speaker. needs this country is counting on us to. come back together and there's still. schisms that have to get.

resolved are. youing which of course leaves one. candidate for the speakership standing. Jim Jordan who as we've said doesn't. exactly seem too many like leadership. material but he's the only candidate. yeah that's right now it becomes Jim. Jordan's race to win or lose and there. were a lot of questions as to whether. the more mainstream Republicans whether.

moderate Republicans in tough swing. seats who are up for tough re-election. battles next year would be willing to. fall in line behind him I heard from. some lawmakers saying you know I really. want to be done with this I want to. elect a speaker but I really don't want. to reward this hard-right minority that. has essentially taken us all hostage H. so that's where things stood at the end. of last week and at that point house. Republican leadership told their.

lawmakers it was fine for them to go. home for the weekend back to their. districts and that was when Jim Jordan. Unleashed this really remarkable. lobbying campaign the likes of which. we've never really seen before for this. job against these hold apps that was so. intense and to many people off-putting. honestly that the question became is. this campaign going to work and going to. deliver him the speakership or is it. going to alienate so many lawmakers that.

they simply refuse to give him the. [Music]. job we'll be right. [Music]. back so Katie tell us more about this.

intense unusual lobbying campaign that. Jim Jordan embarks on to try to win over. House Republicans who aren't ready to. support him as speaker so remember in. that initial vote Jordan got fewer votes. than sciss so we know right off the bat. that there are many members in fact. nearly half the conference who didn't. immediately support him MH so they hold. another vote and a bunch of lawmakers. swing over to his side out of wanting to. wrap this whole spectacle up but at the.

end of the day around 50 of them vote. against Jordan essentially saying. there's no way we're supporting you. which is a lot of Republicans to stand. in your way if you're trying to become. speaker it's a big block of opposition. and so what Jordan's allies begin to do. essentially is to browbeat members into. supporting. him and how do they try to Bry them so. the idea here is that that Jordan is. going to activate the base hardcore.

Republican voters the Grassroots and so. a number of Jordan allies really. prominent figures almost influencer type. figures within conservative media start. to post the photos of lawmakers who are. refusing to back Jordan they post their. names and crucially they post their DC. Office phone numbers saying you know if. you are a true cons conservative if you. are a patriot you need to call this.

lawmaker and demand that they vote for. Jim Jordan for speaker or. else H which is typically what you do. when you want a piece of legislation to. pass you tell constituents to call their. lawmaker and support this bill here it's. being used to demand that constituents. call and tell their Congress person to. vote for Jim Jordan as Speaker it's. being used as a cudgel and frankly given. the reach of a lot of these influencers. it's not even asking just the.

constituents of that lawmaker's District. the message is really any concerned. citizen needs to flood these lawmakers. phone lines and give them a piece of. your mind and that's what. happens and Michael I mean you know this. one of the biggest fears for Republican. lawmakers is that they are going to be. primaried for being insufficiently. conservative right and so what happens. is when your name is being plastered. across social media as someone who is. not supporting who the base wants that.

begins to activate those fears that. maybe you'll be primaried you could be. run out of Congress for this and so it's. a really potent. campaign so you're seeing this Deluge of. calls really to these lawmakers offices. and then kind of the cherry on top of. the Sunday is that Sean Hannity gets. involved h a member of Congress shares. an email with an axios reporter up on.

the hill that they received from someone. working for the Hannity Show asking for. comment about why they're not supporting. Jim Jordan and I think when you look at. this email I think most reporters would. agree that the phrasing of the email is. not necessarily just the facts you know. are you supporting Mr Jordan up or down. can you read it I hold on let me find. it so it begins hello Stephanie from the. Hannity Show with Fox News. sources tell Hannity that representative.

so and so is not supporting. representative Jim Jordan for speaker. can you please let me know if this is. accurate and if true Hannity would like. to know why during a war breaking out. between Israel and Hamas with the war in. Ukraine with the wide open borders with. a budget that's unfinished why would. representative so and so be against. representative Jim Jordan for speaker. please let us know when representative. so and so plan on opening the people's. house so work can be done so what Jordan.

and his allies are clearly wagering here. is that with these implicit threats they. can kind of Strongarm the majority of. those in the house who originally. opposed Jordan and bring them around to. the minority view that Jim Jordan this. far right pugilistic Insurgent. conservative should be the house speaker.

and they're really doing that through a. series of threats yeah that's right I. mean the message is if you don't turn. around and support me now we will. unleash the base on you but the thing is. Michael is that it seems to be working H. there were a number of Republicans who. we spoke to at the end of last week who. were telling us I will never vote for. Jim Jordan you know count me as a never. Jordan he'll never have my vote who as. of Monday morning were suddenly putting. out statements saying well I've had time. to reconsider and I spoke with.

Congressman Jordan and actually you know. I think he'll make a good speaker and we. should really be United and anyway yes. I'll be supporting him on the. floor so he's already won some really. important converts and with this. strategy in mind he has scheduled a vote. on the house floor Tuesday at noon and. really the beauty of this strategy in. his eyes is that even though the math is. coming his way way even though he seems. to be feeling pretty good about the.

support he'll get on the house floor. from his perspective even if he has a. small number of lawmakers continuing to. block him from winning that speaker. gavel it almost doesn't matter because. once those constituents see their. lawmaker publicly standing up on the. house floor and blocking Jim Jordan from. becoming speaker then they're really. going to hear it and by maybe the end of. the day maybe by the next day they will. cave and let him become speaker got it.

so even if Jim Jordan on Tuesday loses. the first few rounds of votes in the. same way that Kevin McCarthy did back in. January you're saying that would invite. such holy hell on the Republicans who. oppose him that they would. inevitably consider buckling and voting. for Jordan just to get everyone off. their back and avoid the political. Mayhem of opposing him that is exactly. the bet that Jim Jordan is making. so let's say Katie that by the end of.

Tuesday Jim Jordan is elected speaker of. the United States House of. Representatives it will have clearly. been through this perhaps creative but. ultimately fear-based. strategy rather than through having. genuinely cultivated the affections of. his fellow Republicans so what kind of. mandate would that represent for a. speaker Jordan yeah it's a really good. question I mean it's hard to imagine.

honestly at this point what the house as. a governing institution looks like run. by a speaker Jim Jordan but in a way it. is kind of a perfect Arc for this entire. year you had a small minority of. far-right Republicans blocking Kevin. McCarthy from becoming speaker at the. beginning of the year you have an even. smaller group just eight Republicans. toppling him earlier this month and then.

you have someone who really is one of. them who shares their ideology who. shares their belief in tactical Warfare. becoming speaker at the end of the day. right that is a fascinating Arc but I. wonder what it means if Jordan wins for. those farri House Republicans and for. the entire institution because for the. longest time like you just said those. far White House Republicans the. obstructionists the insurgents they have. been seen by the speaker as the problem.

children right they're the ones who. block everything they have to be managed. dealt with if one of them is now running. the whole house does that mean that. those far-right obstructionists are. suddenly much more empowered they're now. kind of running the place or does it. mean that their power has to be duded. and they have to learn to start. negotiating because that's what always. happens when the outsider and the. Insurgent becomes the leader of a place. I mean if he is elected speaker that is.

going to be the central question of his. tenure this is someone who was branded. in his early days as a legislative. terrorist this is someone who creates. chaos rather than solves it I mean if. you look at Kevin McCarthy when faced. with the choice of plating the hard. right rebels of his conference and. ensuring that government could work he. chose every time cutting a deal with.

Democrats to make sure that the. government could work right and it cost. him his job and it cost him his job I. don't know what choice Jim Jordan makes. I don't know that Jim Jordan is willing. to cut a deal with Democrats to keep the. government open for. example but what I think is clear is. that if Jim Jordan wins the speaker. gavel today we are going to see for the. first time what it means to have the.

far-right faction of the house. Republican conference not just sitting. at the table but in fact have the final. say in some of the biggest decisions. made by the United States Congress at a. moment when some very very big decisions. have to be made. [Music]. exactly Katie. thank you very much thanks.

Michael the times reports that as of. late Monday night representative Jordan. had won over all but around 10. Republican holdouts and is counting on. most of them to Cave under pressure. today during a series of votes on the. house. [Music]. floor we'll be right back.

here's what else you need to know. today President Biden will travel to. Israel tomorrow as It prepares to invade. Gaza and attempts to destroy. Hamas the trip will serve as an. extraordinary wartime demonstration of. American solidarity with Israel one. designed to deter Israel's enemies. including Iran and Syria from. intervening in the conflict but it will.

further link both Biden and the United. States to Israel's deadly offensive in. Gaza on Monday in a sign of just how. Bloody that military operation may. become Israel's defense minister told. the US Secretary of State that the. invasion of Gaza would entail a long war. that will come at a great cost to human. life and. the federal judge overseeing the.

criminal trial of Donald Trump on. charges of trying to overturn the 2020. election has imposed a gag order on the. former president the order which Trump. plans to appeal restricts him from. making public statements attacking the. witnesses prosecutors or Court staff. involved in the case something Trump has. already done. repeatedly judge Tanya chuin said that. Trump can still publicly argue that the. case is politically motivated and even.

attack her but that he cannot quote. vilify and implicitly encourage violence. against public servants who are simply. doing their. [Music]. jobs today's episode was produced by. Alex Stern Mary Wilson and will Reed it. was edited by Rachel quer contains. original music by Maran Lozano and Dan.

pal and was engineered by Chris Wood our. theme music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael Boro see you. [Music]. tomorrow.