The American Journalist on Trial in Russia

from The New York Times I'm Katherine. benold this is the. [Music]. daily now to a big setback for Evan gers. kovich The Wall Street Journal reporter. held in Russia on Espionage charges for. more than a year American journalist. Evan gershkovich was detained in Russia. more than a year ago the reporter for. the Wall Street Journal is accused of. spying for the US and could face up to. 20 years in prison if found guilty.

gershkovich has been locked up in a high. security prison accused of spying for. the US government the Russian. authorities did not even provide any. evidence of a crime in fact they have. provided no real justification for. holding him his trial held in secret is. now underway today my colleague Anton. tronoski on the complicated geopolitics. behind gers kovic's detention and the. efforts to get him home. [Music].

it's Wednesday July. [Music]. 3rd Anton Evan gershkovich an American. journalist is now on trial in a Russian. court defending himself against. allegations of being a spy for the CIA. if' convicted Evan is looking at up to. 20 years in prison you know Evan well.

tell us a little bit about him so Evan. is a correspondent for the Wall Street. Journal writing about Russia he's 32. years old he grew up in New Jersey and. in addition to having this journalistic. curiosity about the world had this. really personal interest in Russia that. came in part clearly from his upbringing. Evans parents are Soviet Jewish. emigrates to to the US they fled the.

Soviet Union in. 1979 and raised Evan in a. russian-speaking household showing him. Soviet era cartoons you know having the. kind of food at the table you would have. in the Soviet Union and through his. early adult life he wanted to be a. journalist and a foreign correspondent. specifically he was also actually an. assistant in The Newsroom of the New. York Times and then he took a risk he. quit that job and moved to Moscow where.

he started out in this very entry-level. role as a a reporter for the Moscow. times so he was a correspondent in. Moscow just like you which presumably is. where you guys met yeah exactly we met. actually at of Starbucks in very early. 2018 when I had just started my stint in. Moscow as a Washington Post bureau chief. and I was hiring a correspondent he.

applied and at that time he was just. starting out so he didn't get that job. but when I met him uh I saw this. experience that we had in common of. having been raised in a Soviet immigrant. household and a Russian speaking. household in the United States so I. really watched him rise as a journalist. in the ensuing years and he also became. a friend having been a foreign.

correspondent myself when you're posted. to another country you really kind of. bond with the other foreign. correspondents right and and I imagine. that this is possibly even more so the. case in a place like Russia which has. grown increasingly hostile toward its. journalists yeah you do you do and. certainly in these last years before the. invasion of Ukraine as things got more. and more hostile in Putin's relationship. with the West as we had obviously the co.

pandemic which made it really hard to. travel yeah that was a time when the. relatively few foreign correspondents in. Moscow bonded and in your work out there. did it ever feel risky I wonder if there. was ever a concern that aan or any of. you other foreign correspondents on the. ground had about maybe facing arrest or. getting into trouble with the. authorities was he worried about that so. it was a hostile environment in terms of.

the rhetoric that the West was basically. determined to destroy Russia there was a. lot of talk about the media War as Putin. called it that journalists were seen to. be a part of but at the same time you. know Western journalists were able to. operate in Russia pretty freely you. received journalist visas you received. an official accreditation from the. Russian foreign Ministry but when Russia. invaded Ukraine it suddenly seemed that. all bets were off one of the things that.

happened was just after the invasion. Putin signed a law punishing so-called. fake news about the war with as much as. 15 years in prison and I remember didn't. they even like Outlaw the word War at. the time yes exactly one of the things. was of course the Kremlin was calling it. a special military operation not a war. and it seemed like even that could be. grounds for prosecution so in those. first weeks of the war a lot of. journalists both Russian and foreign. correspondents left so did we at the New.

York Times we also temporarily pulled. our journalism staff from the country. but then in the ensuing months it. started looking like this law was only. going to be used against Russian. journalists or people publishing in. Russia not foreign correspondents and so. reporters increasingly started going. back we did our colleague Valerie. Hopkins a frequent guest on this show. started reporting from Russia again so. did Evan and and so for about a year.

there it looked like it was still. possible to do reporting safely inide. the country and then came March 29th. 2023 that was the day that Evan. disappeared he was on a reporting trip. to the city of yatar inberg in the eural. mountain region according to the Wall. Street journals reporting on this.

the last his colleagues heard from him. was when he was headed into a meeting at. a steakhouse in that. City and the next day March. 30th I remember having breakfast. listening to this YouTube Morning Show. done by Russian journalists that I often. listen. to and they said we have some breaking.

news coming. in Evan gersich American journalist has. gone missing and this was just that. horrifying jolt of like is this the. moment that something really awful. happens to an American journalist. working in. [Music]. Russia and then within a few hours it. became clear.

that this really was that awful moment. and that evans's arrest was not some. kind of. misunderstanding but that it had been. very much approved and probably ordered. by the. [Music]. Kremlin couple hours after those initial. reports of evans's disappearance the FSB. Russia's domestic Security Service the.

successor agency to the KGB put out a. statement saying Evan gershkovich Wall. Street Journal reporter has been. detained on suspicion of Espionage on. suspicion of collecting information on. behalf of the United States about the. military industrial complex of Russia. and just after that in his regular call. with reporters Dimitri pcov the Kremlin. spokesman said Evan had been caught. quote red-handed the Kremlin usually.

publicly takes an arms length approach. to various arrests even when they pretty. clearly have some kind of political. motivation but in this case to have. Putin's spokesman saying publicly. immediately pretty much after the arrest. that was just as clear a signal as could. be that this was not any kind of. misunderstanding and I mean I think we. should just say here to be totally clear.

that there's been absolutely no evidence. made public he The Wall Street Journal. the US government have all vigorously. denied that he was doing anything other. than journalism this was a move that was. approved by Putin and why would Putin do. that approve the arrest of a journalist. an American journalist himself what. message was he hoping to send here I. mean I see three main factors at play.

here the first is just the context of. his big conflict with the West with the. United States which Putin sees as. existential for Russia and in that. conflict it seems like Putin feels he. has to constantly show the West that. he's ready to escalate that he's ready. to break taboos do the unexpected. inflict pain on the west and so here. arresting American journalist is very.

much a way that Putin has found to. create new problems for the Biden. Administration the second reason is. cracking down on journalism scaring. journalists something that Putin has uh. been very proficient at for more than 20. years for most of that time he was. mainly focusing on cracking down on. Russian journalists and now what we're. seeing with evans's arrest is that Putin. is making clear that being a foreign. correspondent in Russia is a dangerous.

business and then third and I think most. immediately in kind of most relevant for. What's Happening Now is he's taken Evan. as a bargaining chip it's something that. we've seen before think of Britney. Griner the basketball star who was. arrested in Moscow in 2022 and the. Kremlin eventually negotiated her. release in exchange for the US releasing. Victor boot a convicted arms trafficker. okay so for all these reasons they.

arrest aan and what happens to him at. this point he gets flown to Moscow and. put in the Le foro prison in the Russian. Capital it's a prison that Evan knew. very well as a journalist lots of. high-profile people end up there as they. had since Soviet times and so that's. where Evan spent the next 15 months so. what does that look like what is life.

like for Evan inside this. prison so what's special and awful about. this prison is the incredible isolation. that inmates face they are typically. held in these small cells roughly 9 by. 12 ft they typically spend 23 hours a. day in these cells with the light on the. isolation is so extreme that when you. get taken through the prison Corridor to.

your interrogation the wardens make. these clicking sounds as they're leading. an inmate to make sure that other. wardens know that someone is coming and. to avoid even the possibility of two. inmates running into each other in the. hallway so Evan is almost completely. isolated in there does he have any. contact with the outside world so he's.

not allowed visits from friends or. family the one Saving Grace if I can put. it that way here has been that he is. able to exchange letters with the. outside world the letters have to be in. Russian they have to go through the. prison censorship system but his friends. did set up a way for people to write him. letters by just sending letters to an. email address those letters get. translated into Russian printed out and.

sent to Evan in prison and he's able to. respond longhand have you been. corresponding with him I have yeah you. know it's been a just crazy experience. because again Evan had covered Russian. journalists who were arrested and. Russian political prisoners held in jail. as had I right and we had both written. about and interviewed people who were. corresponding with journalists or. political prisoners in Russian jail and.

so it was just such a. mind-bendingly awful experience to. suddenly have your own friend end up in. that situation so so yes I have been uh. corresponding with him it's been just. incredibly powerful and inspiring to see. how Evan's character has stayed strong. and and maybe most importantly how he. has retained his wacky sense of humor so. he's still keeping his spirits up and I. know that that means he also wants all.

of us to keep up our morale it sounds. like from your descriptions that he's. not lost hope and yet I'm sure as a. seasoned foreign correspondent in Russia. he knows that his trial is not a real. trial he must be aware of the. odds yes he knows that very well that. even though we see the trappings of an. independent Judiciary the Russian. Judiciary is nothing of the kind and. there is.

no such thing as due process in Russia. as we know it here in the. US more than. 99% of Russian criminal cases end in. conviction wow so his conviction now. that his trial has started is a foregone. conclusion and really at this point the. main hope that he has of getting out and. returning home is completely outside his.

control completely outside the Russian. judicial system and actually goes all. the way to International. [Music]. geopolitics we'll be right. back so Anton you've said that Evans. conviction is really a foregone.

conclusion which means he could be. sentenced to decades in prison in Russia. is there any hope at all of getting him. out of Russia so it's still an open. question he faces 20 years in. prison and it does look like the most. realistic way for him to get out before. then is some kind of prisoner swap. between Putin and the United States so. the idea is that the US gives Putin some.

kind of high-profile Russian operative. or is someone considered kind of a loyal. servant by Putin and he sends Evan back. in return that's right and that's. obviously something we've seen several. times already with other Americans taken. prisoner in Russia in the last few years. Putin has made it clear that he's. interested in a prisoner swap my. colleague a Wall Street Journal. correspondent EV gershovich has been. held in lefora prison without a trial.

for 37 weeks in fact our colleague. Valerie asked Putin about Evan in his. annual press conference last December uh. what will it take to bring them. home and Putin responded we want to make. a deal but it should be mutually. acceptable to both sides basically. making it clear he sees. as an asset to bargain away but the.

problem is that though Putin wants to. make some kind of deal it's not clear. who if anyone the US has in terms of a. Russian convicted of a crime that Putin. would want right you had a guy and you. mentioned he was traded for Britney. Griner and now you have no one left that. Putin is interested in not that we know. of but in February it became clear that. Putin sees something more elaborate more.

complicated as a potential prisoner swap. uh that would involve Evan Tucker. Carlson came to Moscow in February to. interview Putin and asked about Evan and. Putin said he was interested in a. Russian prisoner named Vadim krasikov. who was in prison in Germany having been. convicted of a political assassination. in Berlin in 2019. I totally remember that case actually I.

was based in Berlin at the time and. wrote about it this guy is basically a. Russian assassin right and he was caught. if I remember correctly after this. incredibly Brazen murder where he shot. someone in broad daylight right in the. center of Berlin exactly he shot a. former Chen separatist fighter in the. tear Garden Park in you know Berlin's. Central Park in 2019 it was a really. shocking case of a Russian political. assassination in a European capital and.

it's become clear that this is the guy. Putin wants for Evan and I guess the key. thing is that this guy has stayed. completely silent he hasn't told the. German authorities anything and Putin. wants to reward that kind of loyalty. yeah exactly that is really Putin's Mo. uh he values loyalty Above All Else and. doing a trade that releases a Russian. assassin who committed this political. murder in the heart of Europe that would.

be sending an extremely strong message. on behalf of Putin but this is a German. prisoner not an American prisoner so. what makes Putin think that Germany will. oblige that the US can actually offer. this guy up for a trade well Putin's. worldview is that the US is in charge he. often refers to Western European. countries as vassals or satellites of. Washington so he thinks he can negotiate. a deal with the Biden Administration to.

orchestrate some kind of release here. and is he right what are the chances of. this actually happening well it's. complicated as you know the Germans. historically don't like to do this they. don't have a track record of doing. prisoner exchanges even to to free their. own citizens who have been detained. abroad because of the concern that doing. so could encourage further hostage. taking right it kind of sets a press in. a way yes so where are these current.

negotiations concerning aan at do we. know anything so obviously they're. happening very much behind the scenes. The Wall Street Journal has reported. that when Olaf Schultz the German. Chancellor visited President Biden at. the white house early this year that. this came up that at the time he and. Biden discussed a potential deal that. would involve freeing VMR the Assassin.

in exchange for releasing Evan for. releasing Paul wheen another American. who's held in Russia right now and. potentially for alexe navali the Russian. dissident but then. navali died that's right he died on. February 16th just a week after that. Oval Office meeting between Biden and. Schultz we still don't know the. circumstances of that death but ever. since American and Russian officials.

have continued to say that negotiations. are ongoing in fact it does appear from. the reporting out there about this that. Germany is open to helping the US here. but it would be politically difficult in. Germany to release an assassin and it. would have been perhaps easier to do. that if naali had been involved we know. very little about what a potential trade. now would look like so tell us about.

this trial that has just started it's. clear that this is a sham trial there's. been no evidence presented but what do. you expect that to look like so to zoom. out I mean this is part of this kind of. judicial theater that we see in Russia. and that we have seen in Russia for many. court cases that are politically. motivated where basically the Russian. government is trying to kind of give.

this veneer of legality to the. repressions it carries out in this case. the trial is actually going to be a. secret trial closed to the public and. that is in the Court's telling because. there are State Secrets involved here. and and that is in fact how Espionage. trials or treason trials are typically. carried out again we can fully expect a. conviction in fact the judge in this.

case told local media a few years ago. that he had only had three or four. acquittals in more than 20 years of. service oh great what a thing to boast. about exactly so that gives you a sense. of the attitude going in here the trial. could take months the first hearing was. last week June 26th the next one has. been scheduled for August and this is. all taking place in a courthouse in. Yekaterinburg where Evan was arrested so. he's now been moved from that prison.

where he spent about the first 15 months. of his arrest in Moscow but again the. main most important thing is going to be. the negotiations taking place behind the. scenes and I think you can very much. expect that if there were to be some. kind of agreement that a trial could be. sped up because the Russians have also. said that they only will do trades when. the person. is convicted in Russia so Anton why even.

bother with this trial that is so. clearly a sham I mean they've presented. no evidence and Putin himself is going. out publicly saying that Evan is pretty. much a bargaining chip for him to get a. Russian prisoner a Hitman out of jail. why bother with this trial at all you. got to remember that Putin is always. playing to multiple audiences and here. one of the main audiences is domestic. this trial is being covered in the.

Russian media on Russian TV and it's. very important for Putin to continue. sending the message to Russians inside. the country that there are American. spies you can't trust the West. journalists can't be trusted that's the. kind of message around this trial that. the Russian public is seeing on TV so. you know they're seeing what is. described to them as a Judicial System. at work of course I'm I'm sort of aware.

Anton as we're coming to the end of this. conversation that the backdrop to this. trial is the war in Ukraine right and it. sort of strikes me that that war is you. know in the third year and Ukraine is. struggling and Putin can look quite. triumphant at times people have sort of. asking the question of whether he's. winning and I look at this negotiation. here and I'm thinking the stakes for.

Putin are actually pretty low right what. does he have to lose in the end so are. we dealing in a way we the West are we. dealing with a kind of triumphant. Kremlin well I think that Putin in many. ways sees that he's engaged in this. conflict with a weak hand he's got a. small economy relatively speaking a. conventional military that struggles on. the battlefield so even though Putin has.

managed to take some momentum in Ukraine. and does see Ukraine as part of that. bigger fight he's waging against the. West he's still overall struggling to. get his way and so that's where the. negotiations around Evan's Freedom come. in Evan has become in this. incredibly devastating way a pawn in in. this geopolitical conflict and is doing. this more and more also there have been.

other foreigners arrested in Russia just. in recent months and last year there was. also another American journalist aluk. kurm masiva of Radio free Europe Radio. Liberty arrested and she remains behind. bars so Putin is actually continuing to. broaden out this conflict that you know. we might think of just as the war in. Ukraine and maybe some other isolated. instances like Evans arrest but again to.

Putin this is this kind of. all-encompassing conflict where he's. constantly looking for ways he can raise. the pressure and look for tactical wins. against the. US Anton I want to ask you as someone. who's been covering Russia for many. years who knows the country intimately. well and also as someone who knows. Evan what's going through your head as. you're following the tri. trial the incredible Injustice of it.

all the fact that Evan really devoted. his professional career so much of his. adult life to covering Russia to. understanding. Russia on a journalistic level as well. as on a personal level you know it was. just a place that he loved so much that. he was so passionate about. it also makes me think of his parents.

who fled the Soviet Union who you know. were looking to escape the repressive. system of that time and now they're. seeing their son Evan who was born in. America being repressed by essentially. that same. [Music]. system so this case is not just like. this personal drama and it's not. only a geopolitical drama but it's also.

kind of a a press Freedom issue you know. Moscow in the not so distant past had an. absolutely thriving scene of of foreign. correspondence there was so much great. journalism coming out of Russia these. last decades and yeah now it's come to. this Anton thank you very much. thank you.

[Music]. krine we'll be right. back here's what else you need to know. today on Tuesday the anxiety over. President Biden's Fitness to run for. reelection erupted into the open as a. number of Democrats publicly urged him. to withdraw from the. race representative Lloyd dogget of.

Texas was the first sitting member of. Congress to say that Biden's faltering. debate performance last week had. disqualified him from running again. others echoed this call President Biden. should withdraw from this race but the. path ahead requires a new generation of. leadership to take our country forward. Adam fris who's running for congress in. Colorado said that winning the. presidential election would require a. younger candidate the Democrats need a. new nominee on the ballot in November we.

need to recalibrate and we need to do so. quickly Mar and Williamson who lost to. Biden in the primaries urged Democrats. to choose a new candidate at the. Democratic Convention in August the vast. majority of Democrats including Party. leaders remained publicly supportive of. Biden and the judge in Donald Trump's. hush money trial delayed his sentencing. from July to September he made the. decision after the US Supreme Court.

issued a ruling that gives Trump broad. Immunity on all official business Trump. who was found guilty of falsifying. business records to cover up a sex. scandal during his 2016 presidential. campaign could face up to four years in. prison today's episode was produced by. Luke vender pluk and Alex Stern with. help from Sydney Harper it was edited by. Lexi Dio with help from Brandon clink BG. and Pig coward contains original music.

by Dan Powell Marian Lozano and Alicia. by Ebe and was engineered by Chris Wood. special thanks to Milana mesiah our. theme music is by Jim brenberg and Ben. lansberg of. [Music]. wery that's it for the daily I'm. Katherine bold see you tomorrow. [Music].