Thanksgiving With 'The Run-Up': Are Black Voters Leaving Democrats Behind?

hey it's Michael first a very Happy. Thanksgiving to you from everyone here. at the daily in addition to all of our. listeners one of the things we're very. grateful for here at the daily is our. colleagues at the Times Across The. Newsroom and across the audio department. and so this holiday weekend we're going. to be sharing a couple of episodes from. other shows here at the times today. we're going to hand things over to our. colleagues at the runup a weekly show.

about politics hosted by aad hearnen who. brings us a very special and a very. personal Thanksgiving episode take a. listen not to pick favorites but. Thanksgiving has always been my favorite. holiday so when I thought about the show. this. week there was only one place I knew it. could. be. home Mom this is Alisa this is an.

producers on the and we to meet you come. on you I wanted to come home with my. colleagues and microphones in toe to do. the one thing you're not traditionally. supposed to do on Thanksgiving talk. politics at the dinner table. specifically I wanted to ask my family. and friends about one political question. that's recently been all over the. news the changing relationship between.

voters and the Democratic. party the numbers are staggering in a. new poll of battleground States from. Sienna College and the New York Times. 22% of black voters said they would. support Donald Trump over Joe Biden in a. hypothetical rematch in. 2024 that's compared to the 8% Trump. carried nationally in. 2020 now it's just one poll but it comes. after the 2022 midterms where black. turnout was one of the the Democrats.

weakest. points and anecdotally it tracks with. what I see in my own life as black. people I grew up with especially younger. black people and black men feel less and. less tied to the Democratic party some. are more open to voting for Republicans. or not voting at. all so I decided to conduct a little. focus group hi. [Music]. everyone with the group of black voters. I know very well well what's the food.

well the food is turkey we have. smothered chicken which is a traditional. kind of a thing smothered chicken with. mashed potatoes my mom and sisters. prepared a feast and we also have a beef. roast low key very lowkey yeah yeah just. a little something slight just a little. turkey it was all it was and a homemade. desert buffet for my sister Angelica now. I can take the pound cake and I can the. ginger molasses I'm curious that that.

you have your eye on that yes let's pray. for the food Lord we thank once my. father bless the food thank you Lord for. aead the runup thank you for all of the. family friends who are here tonight I. pray you'll bless the food sanctify it. purify it for the nourishment of our. bodies he turn the night over to me and. keep them in Jesus name amen amen to. play a role I was familiar with yes a. reporter but also the family. instigator to ask a question that no one. poll can answer.

are black voters really souring on. Democrats and if so why from The New. York Times I'm a stad hearnen this is. the. runup we do a traditional thanks um here. at Thanksgiving we're grateful to God. for another year and um I want to take. two minutes and you could just shout out.

one word or one sentence of what you're. thankful for because I know everybody in. this. room this year. something has occurred in your lives. that you are thankful for so I'm going. to start us off and I'm going to take. the generic. one I'm thankful for. Life thankful for Life thankful that I.

am seeing another year about 30 people. showed up to this dinner I'm thankful. for to be. 70 some friends family and people I've. known forever through my dad's church. I'm thankful for. growth growing and. expanding I'm thankful for my right. mind yeah I grew up in the southwest. suburbs of Chicago and in a town called.

Flossmore around a lot of black families. that were pretty similar to my own I'm. thankful For Life Health strength all of. all of the above middle class college. educated parents black people who had. left the city in search of something. better and not too far from my house my. dad started a church Hallelujah Temple I. got one I'm thankful for. peace it's a smaller congregation that's. much less uniform in terms of class. education but it was always politically.

active and it's where I learned to talk. about politics and ask questions about. what people believe and why I'm thankful. to see everybody here I mean it's um. it's really amazing to see uh this. collection of people and uh it really. matters to me that you all are. represented in what we're doing about. the election because this is a show. that's about giving dignity to people. and uh I think think that's a value that.

you all taught me so thank. you most of the people here have been. voting for Democrats their entire lives. and some people remember a time when. black people couldn't vote at all so I. hope they could put this political. moment in its necessary. perspective so as folks grabbed their. dinner I sat down at the dining room. table. for well that roast kind of melt in your. mouth too though my plan was to divide. people into groups that corresponded.

with divisions that we saw within the. poll I started with the group of older. black folks people who represented. demographic that help put Biden into. office and that has largely stuck by. him so while these folks are. historically reliable Democratic voters. I thought they could still help us. provide important context to what's been. happening that's led to this point would. you all consider yourselves Democrats. yes I do do MH why do you think black.

people have voted for Democrats in. historically such high. numbers well I think one reason seem. like and this is only my opinion when. you look at the Republican it seems like. they were in such a different bracket. than what we were in and what what uh. financially um seemed like you know they. were always on the top and Democrat. doesn't mean that we're on the bottom. though but they just seem like they. always see so much higher than the the.

Democrat it seemed like Republicans care. more about richer people oh yeah and. they're more concerned about staying. rich and we staying where we are you. know it doesn't seem like they ever want. us to get to the plateau that that we. meet where they're at I I think also in. the Democratic. party they have open their arms to the. point where May Black Folk feel that. it's all. inclusion um although we might not agree. with everything that the Democratic.

Party stand for they don't discriminate. against homosexuals or if you're poor if. you if you do have money uh it's more of. a social thing whereas when you talk. about the Republican parties it's about. self and so it's like how much more can. I get it was uh The Have and Have Not. yeah and so with Democrats it was always. it was a hope you know you I think about. Jesse Jackson keep hope alive you know. and so the Democratic party is always. been for Black Folk um the possibility.

of doing something if you will for you. all like when you think about your time. as a Democrat what's the times the party. has made you the most proud. Obama and we I think we all pulled. together that was the time that you. really saw all of us as a race pull. together to get him and and we should be. clear like we're in Chicago I mean this. was a place where it was specifically. happening what what what did it what did. it feel like in 2008 when that was.

happening do you remember how it felt. for you it was like we were in control. we had power you know. yeah and when we go back to the Civil. Rights Movement then we saw like a. fulfillment of all they had worked for. that's you know yes all they had worked. for you know I remember you and I being. the only ones at the church that thought. he can. win I put that on the record I was right.

early y'all I I can remember you and I. arguing with your parents so they like. it's not going to happen black man is. not going to happen simply thinking and. we we were the only two saying up he's. going to win he's going to win and so I. had to put that out there on the record. I appreciate that brother reie I believe. he was going to win I mean because. everybody was pulling everybody to go to. the pole this was the biggest turnout. that we have ever that they said they. were taking people off the street you. know you got to go vote I'm wondering. with Trump's election. and the four years that came after that.

did it cause you to think differently. about the the Obama years before that or. were those separate events I think they. were separate those are separate I think. it was separate you know in 2016 one of. the reasons it did happen is because you. saw a big drop off in in some black. turnout from 2012 to 2016 even the last. recent midterms one of the low points. for the Democrats and what was otherwise. a pretty good year was that black people. don't seem to have the same relationship. with the Democratic Party. do you think the relationship between.

black people and Democrats are changing. or as Democrats do you think maybe. that's just one cycle or another but. this is a kind of connection that will. last I think it's about the. generation that's you know doing the. voting or not voting you know and then. you have to remember we were there most. of us you know during the 70s and the. 60s you know and we were they're. watching all about you know the marches.

and everything and they don't really. know about that it's not being taught in. school you think that drop off in. Democrats may be a generational thing. yes if there was an issue that matters. to you that you want Democrats to. deliver on what is. it well you have the of course the. economy which they're looking out for. and uh you have crime and um really do. you feel like they're looking out for. that well that I I think I think that's.

the. frustration um most of them they. advocate for these particular issues but. the problem is you just don't see much. of any change any results so that's what. turns off a lot of people from politics. they just give up because apparent even. though they vote it seems like their. vote is not making a difference so so. that's the struggle there so sometimes. it's about pushing your agenda letting. people know what you're doing because. you have another voice on the other side. basically they're screaming saying the.

Democrats are not doing anything and. they Scream real loud and of course the. louther they scream that's the voice we. hear and ultimately a lot of people. believe that so the Democrats really. have to do a better job of basically. vocalizing what they're doing showing. the results but to um to answer your. question yes I believe they're making an. effort but everybody at this table knows. it's almost impossible to get anything.

done in Congress yes and that's where. the fight is and that's what it is. basically a fight and if you don't have. the patience to endure the fight you. give up uh but I think we have to. encourage uh you talk about generation. encourage the the Next Generation to. stay in the fight one of the things that. comes up as we talk to people is they. feel less and less interested in. politics do you feel people backing away. from the fight it does feel like some of. that is in the air I mean you you I. won't call names but you talk to certain.

young people and they didn't even. vote I say how how do you not vote for. the in the presidential election I'm an. election judge and I've been one for. years and I I I could physically see you. know where the turnout was like n and. void you know and that was both the. young people and the older people they. were not coming out to vote yeah a. question I had was do you feel proud to.

be a Democrat do you feel proud to be an. American you're come on I've been all. over the world man I tell you this the. best thing going American uh is is. everything great here no could things be. better yes you know the seniors you know. they G they price gouging on the. medicine and you know the Richer getting. richer it's like how much money do you. need um do I feel proud to be a Democrat. I wish I could be an independent you.

know uh but we really don't have. representation in this region with. independent so I have to go other I. could never be a republican especially. now because of anybody that supported. Trump and all the foolishness and lies. that he told it's no no matter what your. message is like even everybody on the. ticket right now that's running you all. supported him and he lied openly and you. believed a lie and you supported them. and you backed them so for me you can. never get anything from me because of.

that and so I can say I'm not going to. say less or two evils but I will not. because people die for me to have this. right I have to vote you know and so. Democrat is the closest I can go. right y'all thank you so much we're. going to talk to some more folks but I. really appreciate. it what they're getting at a sense that. younger black voters have been turning. away away from Biden and the Democrats.

that's supported in the. data and that New York Times Sienna poll. Biden support among nonwhite voters. under 45 plummeted a group that he. carried by nearly 40 points in 2020 he. now led by just six this erosion is one. of the biggest reasons Biden's numbers. look so bad right now and it's giving. hope to Republicans that they can win a. greater share of black voters in. 2024 so just as people were going back.

for. seconds I know aead from school I guess. I know aead from the church but it's. like family you know kind of grew up. together uh his father is one of my. mentors yes sir I gathered a group of. younger black people at the same dining. room table would you all consider. yourselves. Democrats. yes um have you always considered. yourself. Democrats I'll ask this question the. same question I asked the kind of a.

older generation before y'all um why do. you think black people vote in such. numbers for the Democratic party it's. Unique like among demographic groups in. America nobody votes for one party in. this big of a number why do you think. black people vote for Democrats so. consistently I think it's what you're. taught kind of within your family that. this is what you are and so you don't go. any way different from it so you're like. my mom was a Democrat so I'm going to be. that without really looking into the.

facts and finding out for yourself um. what you really want to be I do agree. with Danielle this is like the household. is Democrat but also there's a thought. that you know like black people are not. Republicans this just the bottom lot and. Republicans are for the rich people and. you have all those tags along with being. a Republican and it's all about money. and not service this came up in the last. one too and I thought it was really. interesting because sometimes you see. black folks say I think people vote for.

Democrats because Republicans are racist. but that's not what the explanation you. gave or the people last time it was that. it's there for rich people yeah you. think it's much more of a class thing. than it is it's beneficial to the higher. class those with more money mhm I think. the Democratic party um focuses more on. on our interests. um the rights of the. Constitution cuz we we didn't always. have rights so the Democratic party.

seems to focus more with our interests. you you're saying there's an. understanding that black people can lose. rights and there's something about the. Democrats that seem like they're at. least Safeguard in some of them okay and. I think this is a thing I specifically. wanted to focus on with this group then. the last one we really talked about kind. of the Arc of kind of civil rights. movement through Obama and kind of how. they feel that sense of Pride I kind of. want to think about like Post Obama and. like what H how has that been in terms.

of shifting a relationship or has it. shifted any relationship with Democrats. I think about that high point of 2008. the hope for younger folks especially. y'all still feel like. that I know I've I've been leted down by. Obama do you hear. me I've been. heavily why why uh I feel as though he. could have did more for us I feel as. though he specifically Chicagoans uh. that's where he come from um after.

seeing uh you know Trump and all that he. did it's like man well Obama you could. have did the same thing you could have. been Rogue too before your people and. the fact that he did not do it or even. spoke towards doing it was disheartening. and it affected a lot of the mentees. that I got trying to push them to vote. to even vote anymore what do you mean. like the young people that I'm trying to. push to start back voting was upset at.

the movement of Obama so they stopped. voting all together they lost faith in. the political system there is a kind of. unspoken thing about Obama era I think. it's kind of especially true in Chicago. that it wasn't meeting some of. expectations but it's especially spoken. in this group and it's not spoken in the. last group right they speak about just. the Dignity of him in office about the. the power of having a black family in. that place I hear differently from. younger people people is.

a okay what else and that's not what I. hear from you what is the else um. Democrats talk about Blackness a lot. more they talk about race a lot more. that's not it's not clear to me that. that's like what people want but is it I. don't know but they definitely say the. words. more I mean if you're not like pandering. and talking about hot sauce in your bag. you. know I think if you're being like real I. think people like can pick up on it it's.

like yes you want to know that your. interest is hurt but then I don't kind. of like maybe Biden I think that was a. lot of people's scrip that like he was. kind of just maybe like pandering and. then like when he was in office it was. like okay I got your vote but then you. know went somewhere else I mean it's. it's talked about more which is fine you. know and so now the issue is before us. but we're still taking a lot of L's in a. lot of areas with with violence police. policing um even education so it's yeah. we're talking about it but then what.

because in this case we're still on the. losing end if not in a worse State than. before when it wasn't talked about. because now that it's talked about we're. losing some of the ground that Civil. Rights Movement gained for us so I just. think that talking about it yeah it's. good but now what as a follow up to the. first question I asked about why do you. think black people vote for Democrats in. such numbers do you think that's. changing I mean the sad part do you. think the relationship between the black. people and the part is changing the sad. part about it is yes even on my job like. these younger like so you have more.

black people that are own their own. business they entrepreneurs and so the. benefit that they're seeing is that oh. it's helping me financially and so yes. and so you know what have they done for. me you know the Republican Party can. give me these tax cuts and give me this. and give me that it boils down to like. those type of issues and then they look. at the Democratic party and they're like. well Biden I mean look at this we got. all these immigrants he ain't doing this. he ain't doing that but it's always the. Plus for the Republican side because. it's benefiting them tangibly my fear is.

that uh a lot of uh uh De Young. Democrats are leaning towards Republican. because of the financial gain that they. got during the pandemic of. course yeah those checks thank you but. my fear is the blindfold to what really. is happening like uh affirmative action. no one saying anything about that 10. years from now we going to feel that you. going to see that in these jobs you. going to see all of that that but if we. don't say anything about that now you.

know that'll be a problem not to Har. from like the affirmed action thing but. I think it kind of like goes to your. point though too and like explaining. because like that changed through like. the Supreme Court so like you kind of. have. to educate like the young people as well. like that process so then they're not. once again disappointed in like our demo. right like party or student loans right. knocked down by the by the Supreme Court. but there's a lot of people holding it. against Biden that he didn't make. student lanss go away right but and bid. like he kind of ran on that but I think. maybe that's how he got a lot of the pl.

we're like oh student loans but then we. all of us like didn't understand like. okay it could get blocked and like what. power does he really have and then so a. lot of people are disappointed Biden. because of that they're like if he runs. again I still have tons of student loan. debt so he's not getting my vote yeah. yeah I think our generation and not. everybody in this room but we are more. so about self and what is it going to do. for me and so when they're looking at. these candidates is really like how do I. benefit this instead of like what Chris. said thinking about 10 years from now.

how this will affect us we're thinking. about how this is going to affect me. right now and right now it feels good. cuz I got money in my pocket but now. here we are three years later and prices. for gas and milk are $20 so we didn't. think about how this would affect us. later on we just thought oh this feels. good. now Joe Biden is 80 years. old he's running for reelection the I. get how I get that like I get the. options of the choice. I'm saying how do you feel about that I.

don't know not not I don't know it makes. me think about if something were to. happen then who am I looking at as next. in line and so then it's like you know. cuz so it brings it to reality the RO of. question y'all the the interesting the. interesting thing for me is I I had this. whole plan right I had this plan of okay. Biden can beat Trump M Biden will run. for one term and then KLA would be next.

in line and it didn't happen that way. KLA didn't kamla. didn't camea didn't. pretty what did she do she didn't that's. it that's it you know everything. everything is this this real. uncomfortable laugh at the end of every. statement and it just part of it part of. it is that she wasn't used correctly and. part of it is who she is but you thought. Biden would be one term and he was.

setting up the Next Generation set up. the Next Generation I was not prepared. for to be back here I was not prep. almost like an impossible thought we. would never see Biden and Trump. again we just we just kind of thought we. needed Biden for that moment that he was. our best shot of beating Trump um. specific to progressives you know like. we think of the Bernies of the world you. think of like the kind of national. Progressive leaders they've really. struggled to win over black people what. is it about Progressive politics that.

has somehow at least at the top levels. not fully mixed with black communities I. think cuz of a lot of black uh people. are. religious and that's where a lot of us. what do you mean say be more specific. like what do you mean okay let's say. women who want to have abortion you know. Progressive believes that that's what. you can do but there are a lot of black. people that don't believe that's wrong. the Bible say that's wrong but you're. taking away the power to choose God.

didn't even do that to you so for you to. take away their power to choose you just. as wrong as them you're being God to. them you know we're in the same boat. with this perspective especially when. you get to abortion and it's like people. are absolutely shocked to believe that I. am saying that the woman should have a. choice like it's like can you be saved. and say this absolutely because to your. point Chris we all have choice now I'm. not saying I believe in it I'm not. saying that I you know think it it's. right but you got a choice to make if.

it's Trump versus Biden again do you. know how you would. vote it's okay so so how I will vote. right now in this I am very very uh torn. I you know I cannot vote for Trump you. know I cannot you know and and face. tomorrow and wake up and feel like I'm a. person a human I can't do that uh but. ALS Al voting for for Biden um it also.

brings concern you know to my life as. well that's my thing Biden yeah yeah. absolutely. Biden I'm going with Biden I I'm with. Chris I cannot. TR I would go for Biden as well I. probably would not vote for either oh. you I don't want either one so it's like. it's worth not to vote at all but it's. like am I going to vote for someone who. I absolutely don't want and then vote.

for someone who I really don't want. either but what's the alternative one of. them win are but it won't be because of. me well let's go back so it's going to. be because of a plethora of. you do you feel like you're a Democrat. more because of what Democrats do or. more because of what Republicans. do more because of what. Republicans yes that's a good one. probably more because of what. Republicans do line up with them you. know I would say because of what.

Democrats do yeah yeah that's the. closest one get. surprise more after the. [Music]. break. [Music].

at this point in the evening the turkey. was picked clean people were loading up. on Angelica's Bounty of. deserts and at least in a typical year. it was the time of night when the board. games would come out where my mom would. challenged me to a game of par cheesy. but this year I was up to something and. before everyone left I wanted to have. two more discussions about black voters.

in. 2024 to explore another division that's. clear in the polling. data so we're doing a gender split as. our last combo so if the men are going. to stick around here and then we're. going to have black women in the other. room. gender while there's significant drop. off between young and old black voters. in terms of political engagement what. truly alarms National Democrats is the. current trend line when it comes to. black men specifically and that poll of.

battleground States 27% of black men. supported Donald Trump an incredibly. High number for a Republican primary. candidate and considering Trump's. struggles with Traditional Swing voters. like moderates and. independents his ability to appeal to. groups that don't typically vote. Republican like black men matters a ton. but so I wanted to gather the black men. in the house and have an honest. discussion about what might be behind.

those numbers and whether they think. they'll hold hand rais if you consider. yourself a Democrat so that's about 1. two 3 four five six out of the nine of. us would you consider yourself a. republican one would you consider. yourself an independent I think. depending on the issue depending on the. issue okay so we got to um for Dre jel. you said you're a republican have you. always been a republican always oh what. makes you a Republican what made you a. Republican like generally I think those.

things vary by state for us you know. what I'm saying why would I vote against. myself and in my community and where I'm. from the Republican Party does a lot for. black people and a lot for business. where are you from Indiana M so it's a. state that has Republicans in power has. to have Republicans in power for a long. time you're saying that leads you to be. more interested in voting for. Republicans absolutely like why would I. vote against myself or vote against my. interest one of the reasons we wanted to. convene this group specifically is when. you look at polling data right now now. there's some fear among Democrats that.

this could be an election where there's. a bigger drop off among black men. specifically when it comes to Democrats. I'm curious what do you think it is. what's the connection why why are black. men more open to Republicans you think. than black women the financial Mobility. the Republican Party preaches somewhat. of uh this concept of you strap up your. bootstraps and kind of will your own way. and. to to make your own way far as.

financially the financial Mobility that. they say that's out there uh I think. that appeals to more uh men in like a. disenfranchise that want to take another. step financially within their community. so you're telling me that I can be a. business owner you can give me the steps. to be there I can be more efficient I. can have more economic wealth in my own. community that is appealing to some. people I think that's kind of the reason. that might be appealing to them MH what.

another thing is is that I honestly feel. that the Democratic party has forgot. about the black Mill um what what I what. I mean by that is that one of the major. demographics that we have is our. African-American women they're they're. amazing they're very strong they come. out to the PO but as African-American. men sometimes we get left like our needs. our desires our wants and not always in. account we kind of get pushed to the. side I think sometimes that might be. something that men are looking at that.

our needs are not being taken care of. like our matters are not being resolved. I mean Democrats say in nearly every. speech now black women are the bedrocks. of democracy or or there needs to be. specific focus on them as the as the. anchors of the party I mean I heard you. say that you think that like sometimes. the downstream of that can feel like. black men are absent do the rest of you. all feel like black men are all why are. we looking for the Democratic Party any. kind of party to give you validation why. do you need these you a man bro if you.

want to feel a certain way or you want. to do something in your community if you. want to make money then you should do it. a lot ofs want to be spoken to though. right like that's not unique to black. men right that's not unique to to one. specific group voters want politicians. to speak to those concerns that's what. I'm saying that's the poor idea of. politicians my job is to make money so I. could buy my way or what I want I don't. want to ask you or you to tell me what I. think I want to pay you to speak for. what I think yeah go ahead Chris I also. wanted to uh uh tag on to a lot of black.

men democratics do not cater to men uh. because the squeaky wheel get the oil we. don't talk often we don't speak up we. don't say anything you know women say. they you I'm I can't get this raised you. know they speak up so of course they're. going to cater to who going to speak up. and the the number ratio towards women. versus men is you know who would you. spend more of your money to cater. towards you're going to cater towards.

the women there's also been a big change. in how the Democratic party talks about. gender and sexuality and uh other issues. over the last five six years right uh. am2 movement has completely upended. language around gender and gender roles. a Embrace of kind of lgbtq Rights about. transgender identity has changed the way. the party talks about certain issues do. you think that that has shifted the. party's Rel relationship with black. man yes it is you know this reality of.

it especially in inner cities you know. we we have a lot of people that can't. pull themselves up rather whatever the. circumstances was so we have a lot of. black men are essentially zombies in. their neighborhoods yeah and so with a. lack of wisdom and knowledge to get to. that point you know they're not even in. a picture and then some that are in a. picture they feel that they're left out. because the real realityy of it is when. you look at the homosexual movement or.

lgbtq or however you want to put it um. the reality of it is they get more. Equity than black men in some cases but. part of that is because of the movement. that they have and at base and so they. base make noise and so if we. collectively got together perhaps you. know we can make that noise but. unfortunately sometimes we can't get. together for whatever reason you know. it's like 10 churches on one Street in.

the same neighborhood and collectively. we can't work together to do God's. Mission you know I I think the zombie. point is interesting that makes me think. about you know obviously joblessness. criminal justice uh if there was a. specific issue that you think matters. most to black men what would you think. that is I it's a mass. journalizing this if we could think what. would you think about like if there was. a issue that someone could speak to that. you think would resonate economic. empowerment will be one of the primary.

things but also spiritual enlightenment. and when I say that I'm speaking. specifically to coming to a knowledge of. who we are what our design is based upon. the biblical understanding of Truth and. manhood because manhood I do think we. have to fight for manhood because it's. being pulled away and redefined by all. these different groups and I do believe. that black men we have to take our voice. back and not be passive and be more. deliberate and particularly Christian.

black men being very deliberate about. discipleship but also economic. empowerment I think those two things are. critical for us well let me ask then. about the current figures right one. about Trump and specific to his appeal. or lack of appeal maybe to black men but. Trump is someone who's done more. Outreach to black men specifically. whether that be you know uh First Step. act and kind of Criminal Justice Reform. open in this whether that be you know. hitting up every rapper Who's ever lived.

uh but I mean the man talks more. explicitly about black men than any. Republican I've ever known right and. he's getting a response for it too do. you feel like that a lot of stuff that a. lot of black men may be going towards. Trump now is because what he said he. did his word was his bond and that's a. lot of men's value would he say he do it. Obama ran ran because he was black and. saying all this black stuff but when he.

took office oh he can't do that no more. this is spicy Chris he's president but. you ran from that and you got you won. because of that but when you got there. you couldn't do that so what did he say. that he was going to do that he actually. he did didn't uh Trump that didn't. have like that's a good thing no I ain't. saying it was a good you're saying it's. not actually about what the value. judgment of what he did. what and I want to add this one more.

point I want to add this one more Point. under Trump's Administration I found a. whole lot of black men starting. businesses yeah but you understand that. had nothing to do with. Trump had nothing to do with Trump but. that's that's Republican when whenever. there's a republican in charge they they. they get rid of the regulations that's. always that's.

always it's just Democrat if if Obama. did absolutely twice no only the first. time we ain't voted yet but that only. first time did you vote for George. no one thing we haven't talked about is. kind of Wars globally that's kind of in. the last in the last month has really. taken up a bunch of the space and one of. the ways it's really affecting domestic. politics is Joe Biden is going to ask. Congress for close to hundred billion.

doar for Ukraine for Israel and a place. that you see him having trouble kind of. pitching that is among black communities. right like that there is less support. sometimes for that amount of money going. abroad quickly I'm curious like black. men and black people have been a very. domestic focused electorate. right how when with with what is. happening globally right now how does. that does that impct the way you think. about next year's election and what do. you think about the prospect of how much.

money America spends to countries abroad. because people like Donald Trump are. going to make that America first that's. going to be one of those arguments that. he's laying out it should be I agree it. should be is the wars not brought not. America. first that's a fine answer I what you're. saying I'm saying I'm saying but so. right now you're talking about. allocating hundreds of millions of. dollars to Ukraine and Israel. and yet you have all these folk coming. across the border and you go right there.

right down the street to Chicago where. you have people in the police. departments and all that and. unfortunately sometimes our government. whether it's democrat or republican we. don't take care of home base we have a. lot of places how they can put those. funds and help folk out you know but. right now the focus is over there and I. think you can do you can multitask. unfortunately we're not I encourage us. to take the stance of the the airlines. put your mask on first and then go and.

help somebody else put their mask on. because here's the deal if you don't put. your you will we will not survive if we. pay hold on if we pay all this money to. all these people eggs going to be $25. you know per Cas don't create and who is. that going to affect the most don't. create it's going to affect black. people okay let's get back to biteen. though what's the word on biteen he's. too old we talk about the negatives of. trump often but we don't talk about the. negatives of Biden in a world of today's.

politics where most policies are written. by think tanks and groups of people. Biden handw wrote a policy that resulted. in more black people being locked up. than ever in the history of America. black I mean just for Donald Trump to. succeed next year specifically when we. talk about black men he basically needs. like one out of four 25% black men who. will vote to vote for him do you think. that's possible I'm lock I'm not going.

to lie to you I think the S going to. slide in. there president from. prison I think he's GNA be I think it's. doable but I don't think he's gonna get. the ticket I. really I think he can get 25% just work. work for first question just work with. me that he's the nominee just let's. assume he's the nominee yes assuming. assume is he the nominee do you think. that Trump can win one out of four black. men there's two factors one is the. economic um Factor in terms of him. pushing for entrepreneurial and all. those type of things the other thing is.

that he's dealing with straight men he's. not pushing the gay agenda openly and. that's another elephant in the room when. it comes to Brothers you know and so he. has two things working for him that will. appeal to one out of. four that is the elephant in the room. Trump's ability to appeal to some black. male voters. isn't just about Trump it's also about. masculinity itself and the ways that.

changing Norms around gender and. sexuality are reshaping the political. landscape earlier in the week I told my. mom I wanted to focus on this in my. conversations and she pointed out that. to only seek the perspective of black. men without talking to black women would. be a real oversight and I agree and not. just because you should always listen to. your mother. so while I was speaking to the group of. men in the dining room I'm just going to.

be free roaming with the mic so I'm. going to try to come up to you my. colleague Alisa spoke to a group of. about 15 black women including my mom. and. sisters about their own political power. we carry the weight of a lot and. politicians know it right that if we're. voting we're turning the tide on often. times we're that extra whatever. percentage that will take that. particular um candidate over the the top. to win the way that responsibility can.

be a burden although men are still. having the difficult time voting yeah. yeah but I say we've come it just seems. like we're still fumbling and not us. fumbling but the same issues are before. us and so black women have had to. shoulder that and I don't think that we. shoulder it like we're shouldering it I. just think we we do it we just do what. we do and that's all and there view on a.

question we've been asking everyone all. night we're particularly interested too. in like black men who decide to vote for. Trump and I guess what do you all think. is the appeal there do you get it do you. do you not get it what do you think is. the reason that that they're compell you. know you have the Blackman who makes it. who's the CEO who's successful and then. the things that Trump stand for. financially benefits them so then that's. the black man that's voting for Trump.

the black man that's hasn't experienced. I don't think that's the only black man. for at all at. all that's one of them you can go ahead. and I you know I think s if you say. uneducated cuz uneducated I think that's. the thing that that's it right that when. you think about the lived experience. with women and men there was a burdening. there was a in that we had to do but we. got education right we I also think once.

we talk about the fairness of this. country in my. approximation I think the the problem is. uh we believe the gendered lie that a a. man would be up. here and that you know women do what. they do and I think that maybe. we propped up the belief that as a man. you would have certain advantages maybe.

and that hasn't happened for black men. and I do think that it's created a. question of what do I do in this moment. and you know Trump is very uh. demonstrative against women um in a way. that affirms manhood right and so again. you know if you're feeling like you're. discard. and nothing's working for you that's. going to appeal that language right is.

really going to appeal to you but I. think the more Insidious part of it is. that you know I think it really is the. jux Theos of the life like you women had. it you know you you're making money. you're doing all things that I could. never do right and so um I know that on. the higher end but I think when any one. white or black makes money they want. that tax break I have not met a CEO who.

don't want a tax break right so I don't. know if we could just put it on like. just black men who make money um but I. think that when you mitigate and and and. talk about take away education take away. just privileges when that's working. right those are things that you know. we're able to do as women in a way that. just hasn't happened in an equitable. sense right so it's literally the.

competition of things and I think that. you. know I think I think black men when we. black mothers we we maybe gave wrong. lessons to the children because I think. we it's this idea that I was as a man I. was supposed to have this this is what I. was old this is what I was du is that. what your mother. told one of the things that you'll hear. him say all the time him being Trump is. you know if if even if he has all his.

you know different litigation issues. he'll say they're coming after me and. they're coming no and not just that they. will by way of coming after me they're. coming after you when they attack me. they're attacking you that Definitely. Maybe pulls on the the the the desires. of becoming for some black men and if. this man is saying this powerful man is. saying I've got you you know I.

understand that they have not been there. for you and I'm and you see how they're. attacking me that's how they're. attacking you and I'm going to stop them. from attacking me and that'll also stop. them from attacking you I'm always. scared to say it but less educated but. if you are not astute if you're not. educating yourself then what he says. becomes golden yeah like I think even. just like on a simpler level like when. he ran on like make America great again. I think not just on like race and gender.

that whole slan to me was almost. like people wanting to get their like. so-called power back and so then as a. black woman is like race- wise what do. you mean make America great like what. time period are you talking about. because in the 50s I don't want to go. for me and then even for men like you. saying like we now have like done so. much and so like if you are the man. who's like actually like I thought I was. supposed to be in a different place and. I see my women counterpart I'm trying to. make America great again too reverse the.

tide and get my power back so I hear. like that it seems like in this case. like why you see black men voting for. Trump is that it comes from a place of. self-interest of wanting to that from. your perspective and like you know. choosing the thing that they think is. going to like best benefit them I guess. like I'm wondering who you all see as. like the strongest advocates for black. women or black women no.

rightel are our. greatest women are advocates for. themselves. are cuz we talked about like I'm going. to like butcher her name KLA we talked. about her and like I think people. thought something more of her and like I. don't I don't know if black women. saw like that was our I don't I don't. have the answer to that but I wonder. like when we talk about like if we saw. her I think they she had that pearls and. gym shoes thing and you saw all women.

from sororities coming together with. their pearls and their Chucks and they. they were like oh we've got someone that. looks like us in there again and they. were hoping like we said with Obama they. were expecting her to do so much and. we've seen nothing um and so now it's. like who speaks for us I think people. were thinking that she would be it and. it and that that's why we voted so I I. honestly think she helped them pull that. thing because there was no way without.

it and so now that we don't have what we. expected it's kind of like okay well. there goes that what's. next well I think that when we talk. about men whether black or white I think. that you know the thought of kamla. Harris being the president. mhm it's easy to see why it's it's it.

that black men could be going towards. Trump yeah because the thought even when. we've deal with Biden and his age and. the thought is okay if something does. happen then this is going to be our. president I think that thought will. drive many men black or. white the at this point I walked over. from the dining room to listen to what. was being said I also wanted to know.

what they thought of the question I. oppos to the group of men so next year. and next year for Trump to basically. achieve his black male goals he he needs. to win one out of four oh. really one out of four if he wins 25 to. 30% of black men will be the highest. rate of any Republican in modern history. do you think he can win one out of four. black men yes at this moment. yes we have a lot of praying to. [Laughter].

[Music]. do after that conversation we ended the. night people started grabbing leftovers. packing them in 10. foil and saying goodbye with laughter.

and. hugs I hadn't seen some of these people. in a long time and over the next couple. days I heard from several of them who. told me that they felt grateful to be. part of the. experience I felt thankful for them. their willingness to play ball with my. questions their cander for celebrating. my favorite holiday a little early I was. saying can you take us through this take. us through what you me oh my goodness. and of course a lot for giving Angelica. an excuse um I have Christmas pin.

coconut macaroons to bake 13 different. desserts uh fruit fil shortbread regular. shortbread pumpkin macaroons cinnamon. shortbread lemon poppy seed shortbread. pound cake ginger molasses cookies. chocolate chip cookies Oreo cheesecake. which is going to be like the Triumph. and uh peacon brittle did I say walnut. brownie. okay just something SL. [Music].

that's the runner for Thursday November. 23rd. 2023 thanks so much for listening we'll. be here every week until election day. breaking down this political moment. hoping you understand what will really. make a difference next November and. hopefully make you feel a little less. anxious in the process we'd love for you. to find the runup in your podcast feeds.

subscribe and follow. [Music]. along the runup is reported by me estad. hearnen and produced by Alisa Gutierrez. Caitlyn O'Keefe and Anna Foley it's. edited by Rachel dry Lisa Tobin and. Franny cartto with original music by Dan. pal Marian ano Pat mccusker Diane Wong. and. aliciaa it was mixed by Sophia landman.

and fact check by Caitlyn love special. thanks to Paula Schuman Sam dolnick. Lissa Anderson David how finger mahima. chablani renan barelli Jeffrey Miranda. Maddie masello and Nila. Townson do you have questions about the. 2024 election we're working on a new. question and answer segment and we want. to hear from you email us at the runup. atny. times.com that's the runup atny.

times.com thanks for listening. [Music]. y'all.