Sunday Special: 'Modern Love'

hi everybody it's Sabrina today instead. of a Sunday read we're doing something. different this weekend we've got an. episode from our colleagues over at the. Modern Love podcast if you don't know. the show it's hosted by Anna Martin and. like the New York Times column that the. show is named for the podcast explores. the Complicated Love Lives of real. people today we're sharing an episode. from Modern Love's current season it. features samine Nusrat the chef and.

author whom you might know from her. cookbook and TV series Salt Fat acid. heat in this episode nasrat talks about. love loss and how we Embrace Joy okay. here's the episode and if you want more. of them Search Modern Love wherever you. listen to podcasts And. subscribe love now and you I love love.

was stronger than anything feel love. love and I love you more than anything. there love. love from the New York Times I'm Anna. Martin this is Modern Love and we're. still celebrating our 20th anniversary. spotlighting our favorite love stories. with our favorite writers musicians. artists and today a Chef cooking for. someone is kind of the original way to. say I love you.

the labor the time the care all that. chopping and kneading and careful. seasoning so if food is love then chef. and writer SE nasrat just might be the. most romantic person in the world it's. sweet it's rich in flavor yeah it's so. good it's so good I it's bringing tears. to my eyes that's s on her Netflix show. Salt Fat acid heat freaking out in the. best way over some Parmesan cheese in.

Italy with the people who spent years. making it this is sine in her element. sharing meals and laughs and sometimes. tears with other people from the vibrant. delicious dinner she hosts for her. friends I'm going to put you straight to. work so do you want a glass of wine. first to making traditional Iranian. dishes with her mom with some trial and. error apparently I've been doing this. wrong my whole you're not frying it. you're just making a good crusty tadty. okay do her instructional videos show us.

how home Cooks can make cheesy molten. lasagna from scratch hot oh my God it's. like a piece of lava going down my. throat okay I hope that you get to share. this Las with a bunch of people I hope. it brings a little joy and comfort and. deliciousness when we asked sine to pick. a modern love essay she knew exactly. which one she wanted to read it's an. essay that involves food of course but. it's also an essay about time.

how precious it is and how just like a. piece of piping hot lasagna we have to. savor it with the people we. love s nasrat welcome to Modern Love. thanks so much for having me Anna okay I. worry this is going to sound creepy but. I'm just going to tell you we've. actually met before we have a friend in. common and one time I tagged Along on an. errand with her she was dropping off a. pot she'd borrowed from you at your. house.

oh for her chili exactly yes and I met. you then well did I still live in my. little apartment or did I live here no. it was like a house with a garden in the. middle yeah yeah that's where I live now. and you gave me a lroy and I Fang girl. very. quietly that's funny okay now that. that's over before we get to the essay I. want to ask you a personal question you. are so openly emotional on Salt Fat acid. Heat your TV show and and throughout all.

your other work you've these moments. where you laugh out loud or you burst. into tears because something tastes so. good have you always been that way with. your emotions so close to the. surface H I think yes and no like I. think the feelings have always been. there my family is from Iran and my. particular family has its own story of. loss and grief and being affected by. culture.

and so in my family I was not. necessarily encouraged to like express. my feelings and so it's taken a lot of. work a lot of therapy a lot of sitting. with it and also just like connecting. back to who I. am and I think part of that's just. growing up like and getting outside of. constantly worrying what other people. think which I I only do it 98% of the. time now not 100. but but I think instead of being.

embarrassed about the things that rise. inside of me and want to come out now I. understand that's all I can do and. that's who I am and in a way that's what. draws certain people toward me you know. is I like maybe give permission cuz the. thing tastes so good right how could I. contain myself you know like I just yeah. I don't it's just it it I have to let it. out it's so good and don't you want to. share that with someone like totally. this tastes so good I want you to have. some m i mean your emotion invites Us in.

it invites us to feel deeply alongside. you so San when we asked you to come on. the show you knew immediately which. essay you wanted to read it's called you. may want to marry my husband by Amy. Krauss Rosenthal and you said it was. because you were obsessed with Amy that. you were an Ardent fan that you'd. followed her intensely for years without. giving away too much of the story before.

listeners hear it can you tell me why. you're so drawn to her um I probably. first encountered her work maybe like. 2005 which was a time in my life when I. was reading a lot of blogs by artists. and creative people I was really deeply. unhappy in my. own path as a restaurant cook and I. wanted to become a writer so I would. sort of spend all of my time filling my. spare time with like creative Juju and I.

saw her book I think it's called. Encyclopedia of an ordinary life it was. a memoir written in this amazing format. of encyclopedic entries but of just. ordinary things in her life and I just. thought it was so clever and smart and. so I started following her online and. she was always doing projects that. invited strangers in and so she had an. event that she documented and turned. into a short film called the beckoning. of lovely and the internet was already. starting to turn dark you know mhm and.

it was this thing where it was like in. in time of so much darkness and. disconnection like she was offering a. beautiful way to connect mm I know that. video I've watched it several times Amy. KRA Rosenthal called this project the. beckoning of lovely as you said because. her whole sort of ethos was beckoning in. calling in light and joy and connection. so she had all these strangers show up. to make art together at 88 so August 8th.

2008 at 8:08 p.m. oh I forgot the. 8:08 it was just this beautiful thing to. witness this movie was so joyful and. special and magical and innocent and. like I wanted to do things like that I. wanted to be part of something like that. it was so inspiring absolutely inspiring. her work was so playful and the Modern. Love essay she wrote also has that. quality but at the same time it is a.

total tear Jer like this essay makes me. cry before you read I want to pose a. theory to you I feel like there are two. types of people in the world there are. the people who like a story that makes. you cry and there are people who avoid. it like the plague oh yeah and you in. picking this essay you just went right. for it you went directly into the. emotion so I want to know like why do. you think not afraid of the sad when a.

lot of people. are I think. sadness has always just been a part of. my life and yet like you know in my work. and in the world like I'm so deeply. associated with joy and you can't have. one without the other I think my. orientation toward Joy is. because I have so much sadness. inside I mean this essay has both it has. has the joy and it has the sadness I.

completely see why you were so drawn to. it and I can't wait to hear you read it. okay great you may want to marry my. husband by Amy Krauss. rosenfall I've been trying to write this. for a while but the morphine and lack of. Juicy cheeseburgers what has it been now. 5 weeks without real food have drained. my energy and interfered with whatever. Pros prowess remains additionally the. intermittent Micron naaps that keep.

whisking me away mids sentence are. clearly not propelling my work forward. as quickly as I would like but they are. admittedly a bit of trippy. fun still I have to stick with it. because I'm facing a deadline in this. case a pressing one I need to say this. and say it right while I have a your. attention and B a. pulse I've been married to the most. extraordinary man for 26 years I was. planning on at least another 26.

together want to hear a sick. joke a husband and wife walk into the. emergency room in the late evening on. September 5th. 2015 a few hours and tests later the. doctor clarifies that the unusual pain. the wife is feeling on her right side. isn't the no biggie appendicitis they. suspected but rather ovarian. cancer as the couple head home in the. early morning of September 6th somehow. through the foggy shock of it all they.

make the connection that today the day. they learned what had been festering is. also the day they would have officially. kicked off their empty. nering the youngest of their three. children had just left for college so. many plans instantly went. poof no trip with my husband and parents. to South Africa no reason now to apply. for the Harvard lobe Fellowship no dream. tour of Asia with my mother. no writer residencies at those wonderful.

schools in India Vancouver. Jakarta no wonder the word cancer and. cancel look so. similar this is when we entered what I. came to think of as Plan B that's. be existing only in the. present as for the future allow me to. introduce you to the gentleman of this. article Jason Brian Ros. andth he's an easy man to fall in love.

with I did it in one day let me explain. my father's best friend since summer. camp Uncle John had known Jason and me. separately our whole lives but Jason and. I had never met I went to college out. east and took my first job in California. when I moved back home to Chicago John. who thought Jason and I were perfect for. each other set us up on a blind date it. was 1989 we were only 24 I had precisely. zero expectations about this going.

anywhere but when he knocked on the door. of my little frame house I thought uh-oh. there's something highly likable about. this. person by the end of dinner I knew I. wanted to marry him Jason he knew a year. later I've never been on Tinder Bumble. or e-harmony but I'm going to create a. general profile of Jason right here. based on my experience of coexisting in. the same house with him for like. 9,490 days first the the basics he's 5'.

10 160 lb with salt and pepper hair and. Hazel. Eyes the following list of attributes is. in no particular order because. everything feels important to me in some. way he's a sharp dresser our young adult. sons Justin and Miles often borrow his. clothes those who know him or just. happen to glance down at the gap between. his dress slacks and dress shoes know. that he has a flare for fabulous socks. he's fit and enjoys keeping in shape. if our home could speak it would add.

that Jason is uncannily Handy on the. subject of food man can he cook after a. long day there's no sweeter Joy than. seeing him walk in the door plop a. grocery bag down on the counter and woy. with olives and some yummy cheese he has. procured before he gets to work on the. evening's. meal Jason loves listening to live music. it's our favorite thing to do together I. should also add that our 19-year-old. daughter Paris would rather go to a. concert with him than anyone.

else when I was working on my first. Memoir I kept circling sections my. editor wanted me to expand. upon she would say I'd like to see more. of this character of course I would. agree he was indeed a captivating. character but it was funny because she. could have just said let's add more. about. Jason he's an absolutely wonderful. father ask anyone see that guy on the. corner he'll tell you J Jason is. compassionate and he can flip a.

pancake Jason paints I love his artwork. I would call him an artist except for. the law degree that keeps him at his. downtown office most days from 9: to 5. or at least it did before I got. sick if you're looking for a dreamy. let's go for it travel companion Jason. is your man he also has an affinity for. tiny things taster spoons little jars a. mini sculpture of a couple sitting on a. bench which he present presented to me. as a reminder of how our family.

began here's the kind of man Jason is he. showed up at our first pregnancy. Ultrasound with. flowers this is a man who because he is. always up early surprises me every. Sunday Morning by making some kind of. Oddball smiley face out of items near. the coffee pot a spoon a mug a. banana this is a man who emerges from. the miniart or gas station and says give. me your palm and voila a colorful. Gumball appears he knows I love all the.

flavors but. [Music]. white my guess is you know enough about. him now so let's swipe right wait did I. mention that he's incredibly handsome. I'm going to miss looking at that face. of his if he sounds like a prince and. our relationship seems like a fairy tale. it's not too far off except for all of. the regular stuff that comes from 2 and. 1 half Decades of playing house together.

and the part about me getting cancer. ble in my most recent Memoir written. entirely before my diagnosis I invited. readers to send in suggestions for. matching tattoos the idea being that. author and reader would be bonded by ink. I was totally serious about this and. encouraged submitters to be serious as. well hundreds poured in a few weeks. after publication in August I heard from. a 62-year-old librarian in Milwaukee.

named. pette she suggested the word more this. was based on an essay in the book where. I mentioned that Moore was my first. spoken word true and now it may very. well be my last time shall. tell in September pette drove down to. meet me at a Chicago Tattoo Parlor she. got hers her very first on her left. wrist I got mine on the underside of my. left forearm in my daughter's. handwriting this was my second tattoo.

the first is a small lowercase j that. has been on my ankle for 25 years you. can probably guess what it stands for. Jason has one too but with more letters. a. KR I want more time with Jason I want. more time with my. children I want more time sipping. martinis at the Green Mill jazz club on. Thursday nights but that is not going to. happen I probably only have a few days. left being a person on this planet so.

why am I doing. this I'm wrapping this up on Valentine's. Day and the most genuine non- vase. oriented gift I can hope for is that the. right person reads this finds Jason and. Another Love Story. begins I'll leave this intentional empty. space below as a way of giving you two. the fresh start you. deserve with all my love Amy.

I mean she was just. herself the entire time she was alive. mhm she was just always in fully Amy. cross RS all I think that's what struck. me when I read this and Strikes me. now more from sine after the break. [Music].

sine thank you so much for reading Amy. crra rosenthal's essay you did an. incredibly beautiful job what did it. bring up for. you I remember when I first read this in. the paper I was surprised I had not seen. anything from her in a while and I. actually think she died shortly after. just a few days after it was published. mhm and so it came with that. note and it was just such a shock.

because she was so young and so alive. like aliveness was at the core of what I. associated with her and yet still in. this story she's still so fully herself. and everything that I had been drawn to. from the beginning about finding Beauty. in the ordinary and finding ways to. bring people. together comes out here you know she's. doing it here M she's inviting people.

into her life and her husband's life she. tells the story of connecting with her. readers and getting a tattoo and there's. just this way where it's so deeply. moving and so beautiful and so sad and I. think you just can't have one without. the. other you know you mentioned that in. your work in your sort of public Persona. you are known for your joy which is I. mean your laugh is like a a golden beam. of light to me it like invigorates me.

and I know so many others and you're. talking about the sadness too that you. carry and I guess I wonder how you. approach holding both of those you say. you can't have one without the other I. wonder how you carry both at the same. time I mean I am a depressive person. I've been like deeply overwhelmed by. loss and sadness throughout my life and. even as I sit here talking like I can. just feel the like core of sadness in my. heart and also I have to wallow in it. and at other times I think it's just.

been a conscious decision for me it's. almost like a survival mechanism that I. can't stay there I can't live there so I. can feel it and I can acknowledge it and. I can let it be there and also the way I. have to exist in the world is by looking. for beauty and looking for joy and. looking for connection and I'm not an. actor I wish sometimes I really wish I. could act but um the the joy that I Emit.

and I I represent is also like very. genuine it's not an act but also I have. to leave room for the the other part of. it because genuine joy and genuine. sadness coexist together it sounds like. you've come to a place in your life. where you really deeply acknowledge that. and in its own way I I think the essay. does too MH you know there are so many. beautiful things that Amy writes about.

her husband Jason and one of those. things is that he cooks for her she. writes after a long day there is no. sweeter Joy than seeing him walk in the. door plop a grocery bag down on the. counter and woo me with olives and some. yummy cheese and I feel like you are the. queen of this I mean sort of. indisputably the queen of expressing. love for cooking of wooing people. through food what is the last thing you. made someone to show them. your.

love oh I know Caesar salad. dressing with the real anchovies yeah. with the real anchovies like tell me the. ingredients I just want to hear you say. it it's like. ASMR literally I'm going to bed to this. tonight um I think that time I used egg. sometimes I make the mayonnaise with. aqua FAA with the chickpea water but I. think I made it with like egg and olive. oil a ton of lemon juice and lemon zest. ton of Parmesan cheese ton of anchovies. and garlic I always add a little worst. to sauce and then I also add usually.

some vinegar too like white wine vinegar. salt and pepper I think that's. everything worst to sure is is that like. a secret ingredient I never put that in. my own you know wor asure sauce is just. like white people fish sauce basically. say that so you can say that again so. sometimes I I'll add a little bit of. fish sauce like a but either one it's. just sort of a little secret like kick. but I think it does sort of go back to. like maybe the ' 50s or I don't think it. was in the original Caesar salad from. but it is a classic ingredient that's a.

love letter isn't it that's a love. letter how does food as love show up in. your day-to-day life I mean to me I. think a lot about it as time you know in. some ways actually does relates back to. this story and like and also my own. sadness and and loss which is I think a. thing I've been thinking a lot about in. the last few years my dad died and like. that was sort of just. horrible to watch for a million reasons.

but a big part of what sort of washed. over me when I was watching him die was. how sad and horrible the circumstances. of his death were and I kind of was left. with this feeling of this is not what I. want to look back on when I'm dying and. it sort of helped me really focus. on what I want to think about at the end. of my life which is like I want to look. back and see a life that was full of.

friendship and joy and laughter and. beauty and nature and puppies and you. know art and connection and so there has. been a sense I've always had in my life. of I think this has a lot to do with. being like an immigrant kid and having. sort of save save save and work sort of. the work ethic drilled into me but like. there's just been in a sense I've always. had of like saving things for later and. you I'll work really hard now so that.

one day I won't have to or I'll save up. all my money so that one day I'll be. okay or I'll say no to all of these sort. of things that I could be doing because. I should be home working or doing. something you know productive and I. think as I watched my dad die it finally. sink in like you only get one life and. there's only the time that there is and. actually the very most precious thing. that we have is time only thing like we. can't get more of the only thing I can't.

buy the only thing I can't you know is. time and so there was just almost this. like overnight change in me of you know. I always joke I'm like oh now I'm fully. YOLO. like but it is true like I say yes to. you know when people are like oh do you. want to come to this thing across the. country next week to be with your. friends I'll say yes now and so to go. back to your question like. when that even has shown up for me in my.

cooking and a lot of sort of what I'm. conscious of as a person who writes. recipes and wants to encourage people to. cook is that time is really precious and. that a lot of people don't have the time. to cook and to me I'm like oh if we can. shift something in the way that we look. at this thing that we do every day to. nourish ourselves and to nourish the. people around us who we care about and. understand that this time is a gift. right like I'm pouring my time into.

making you something and that is me. sharing like my most precious currency. with you so it's not about making the. most like fanciest things sometimes you. know I'll make like I make chili crisp. and that's a project that takes a day or. a day or two and I make it once a year. and then I give that away but then the. gift is more than just that jar like I'm. giving you all of the time and energy. and thoughtfulness that I've put into. that m i mean my most tangible thing.

that I do is that for now like I think 3. or 4 years a small group of my friends. and I have dinner together every week. it's truly our Sabbath like it's our. thing that we all look forward to every. week sometimes I'm testing recipes but. sometimes like we order empanadas. sometimes we just have a pot of beans. ofoto um it's not like necessarily some. sort of a culinary thing but it's about. creating this ritual for ourselves and.

the kids and investing that time with. each other now I just talked longer than. the essay. sorry and by the way you just gave us. the title of the episode which is now. I'm fully. YOLO a conversation with. some which is just like. perfect but what you're saying is so SP. on and in a way it so directly aligns.

with I think one of the takeaways from. the essay is when she's talking about. the idea of more she wants more time. with her husband she wants more time. with her kid she wants more time sipping. martinis I mean it's it's this idea as. you're articulating of our most precious. resource being time and and it almost. seems too simple right but it's so true. mhm Amy Krauss Rosenthal died 10 days. after this essay was published and her.

husband Jason later published his own. Modern Love essay as a kind of response. piece to honor her and in it he wrote. Amy continues to open doors for me to. affect my choices to send me off into. the world to make the most of it and I. have to say you know so I mean I feel. like Amy has done this for you too what. about this essay do you carry with. you I think the main thing that I carry.

with me is the kindness and love and. generosity with which it was written and. the idea. of I love this person so much and I want. to give them permission to go have a. full life and I want to sing the Praises. of them so that everyone else can. understand you know in some ways she's. not the main character of her own story. he is is and that sort of sense of.

generosity and kindness is what I think. of when I think of this that even in. like as she suffered this like sad. horrible illness she was able to look. outward. and I think that's to me like my. loneliness and sadness often threatens. to sort of pull me inward and make me. close off myself off from the world and.

this is a nice reminder that ultimately. the best way to be and the most fruitful. way to. be is to open up and. [Music]. connect simine thank you so much oh. thanks for having me and we should say. thank you to Amy cross Ros and Thal for. these words yes and thank you so much to. Amy crossr. [Music].

[Music]. Modern Love is produced by Julia boo. Christina josa Reva Goldberg Davis land. and Emily Lang with help from Kate lesty. it's edited by our executive producer. Jen pant and Paula Schuman. the Modern Love theme music is by Dan.

Powell original music by Dan Powell Cory. shle and Rowan Neo this episode was. mixed by Daniel Ramirez our show is. recorded by Maddie masello digital. production by mahima chani and Ne. galle the Modern Love column is edited. by Daniel Jones Mia Lee is the editor of. Modern Love projects I'm Anna Martin. thanks for listening. [Music].