Stormy Daniels Takes The Stand

it's 6:41. a.m. feeling a little stressed because. I'm running late it's the fourth week of. Donald J Trump's criminal trial it's a. white collar. trial most of the witnesses we've heard. from have been I think typical white. collar Witnesses in terms of their. professions got a former publisher a. lawyer. accountants the witness today.

a little less. typical Stormy. Daniels porn star in a New York criminal. courtroom in front of a jury more. accustomed to the types of witnesses. they've already. seen there's a lot that could go. wrong from The New York Times I'm. Michael boaro this is the. daily. today what happened when Stormy Daniels.

took the stand for 8 hours in the first. criminal trial of Donald J Trump as. before my colleague Jonah bromich was. inside the. [Music]. courtroom it's Friday May. 10th so it's now day 14 of this trial.

and I think it's worth having you. briefly and in Broad Strokes catch. listeners up on the biggest developments. that have occurred since you were last. on which was the day that opening. arguments were made by both the defense. and the prosecution so just give us that. brief recap sure it's all been the. prosecutions case so far and prosecutors. have a saying which is that the evidence. is coming in great and I think for this. prosecution which is trying to show that. Trump falsified business records to.

cover up a sex scandal to ease his way. into the White House in 2016 the. evidence has been coming in pretty well. it's coming well through David pecker. former publisher of the national. Inquirer who testified that he entered. into a secret plot with Trump and. Michael Cohen his fixer at the time to. suppress negative stories about Trump. the candidate right it came in pretty. well through Keith Davidson who was a. lawyer to stormmy Daniels in 2016 and. negotiated the hush money payment and. we've seen all these little bits and.

pieces of evidence that tell the story. that prosecutors want to tell and the. case makes sense so far we can't tell. what the jury's thinking as we always. say but we can tell that there's a. narrative that's coherent and that. matches up with the prosecution's. opening statement then we come to. Tuesday and that day really marks the. first time that the prosecution strategy. seems a little bit risky because that's. the day that Stormy Daniels gets called. to the witness St okay well just explain. why the prosecution putting stormy Dani.

on the stand would be so risky and I. guess it makes sense to answer that in. the context of why the prosecution is. calling her as a witness at all well you. can see why it makes sense to have her. the hush money payment was to her the. cover up of the hush money payment in. some ways concerns her and so she's this. character who's very much at the center. of the story MH but according to. prosecutors she's not at the center of. the crime the prosecution is telling a. story and they hope a compelling one and.

arguably that story starts with Stormy. Daniels it starts in 2006 when stormmy. Daniels says that she and Trump had sex. which is something that Trump has always. denied right so if prosecutors were to. not call Stormy Daniels to the stand you. would have this big hole in the case it. would be like effect effect effect but. where is the cause where is the person. who set off this Chain Reaction mhm but. Stormy Daniels is a porn star she's. there to testify about sex sex and. pornography.

are things that the jurors were not. asked about during jury selection and. those are subjects that bring up all. kinds of different complex reactions in. people and so when the prosecutors bring. stormmy Daniels to the courtroom it's. very difficult to know how the jurors. will take it particularly given that. she's about to describe a sexual episode. that she says she had with the former. president will the jurors think that. makes sense as they sit here and try to. decide a falsifying business records. case or will they asked themselves why.

are we hearing this so the reason why. this is the first time that the. prosecution strategy is for journalist. like you a little bit confusing is. because it's the first time that the. prosecution seems to be taking a genuine. risk in what they're putting before. these chur everything else has been kind. of cut and dry and a little bit more. mechanical this is just a wild card this. is like live ammunition to some extent. else is settled and controlled and they.

know what's going to happen with stormmy. Daniels that's not the case Okay so walk. us through the testimony when the. prosecution brings her to the stand what. actually happens it starts as every. witness does with what's called direct. examination which is fancy word for. saying prosecutors question Stormy. Daniels and they have her tell her story. first they have her tell the jury about. her education and where she grew up and. her professional experience and because.

of Stormy daniels's biography that. quickly goes into stripping and then. goes into making adult films and I. thought the prosecutor who questioned. her Susan hoffinger had this nice touch. in talking about that because not only. did she ask Daniels about acting in. adult films but she asked her about. writing and directing them too. emphasizing the more professional. aspects of that work and giving a little. more credit to the witness as if to say. well you may think this or you may think. that but this is a person with dignity. who took what she did seriously God it.

what's your first impression of Daniels. as a witness it's very clear that she's. nervous she's speaking fast she's. laughing to herself and making small. jokes but the tension in the room is so. serious from the beginning from the. moment she enters that those jokes. aren't Landing so it just feels like. really heavy and still and almost. oppressive in there so Daniel's talking. quickly seeming nervous giving more. answers than are being asked of her by. the prosecution even before we get to.

the sexual encounter that she's about to. describe all of that presents a really. discomforting impression I would say and. how does this move towards the encounter. that Daniels ultimately has it starts at. a golf tournament in 2006 in Lake Tahoe. Nevada Daniels meets Trump there there. are other celebrities there too they. chatted very briefly and then she. received a dinner invitation from him. she thought it over she says and she.

goes to have dinner with Trump not at a. restaurant by the way but she's invited. to join him in the hotel suite so she. gets to the hotel suite and his. bodyguard is there and the hotel door is. cracked open and The Bodyguard greets. her and says she looks nice this and. that and she goes in and there's Donald. Trump just as expected but what's not. expected she says is that he's not. wearing what you would wear to a dinner. with a stranger but instead she says. silk or satin pajamas M she asked him to.

change she says and he obliges he goes. and he puts on a dress shirt and dress. pants and they sit down at the hotel. sues dining room table and they have a. kind of bizarre dinner Trump is asking. her very personal questions about. pornography and safe sex and she. testifies that she teased him about how. kind of vain and pompous he is and then. at some point she goes to the bathroom. and she sees that he has got his. toiletries in there his Old Spice his. gold tweezers very specific details yeah.

we're getting a ton of detail in this. scene and the reason we're getting those. is because prosecutors are trying to. elicit those details to establish that. this is a credible person that this. thing did happen despite what Donald. Trump and his lawyers say and the reason. you can know it happened prosecutors. seem to be saying is cuz look at all. these details she can still summon up. right she comes out of the bathroom and. she says that Donald Trump is on the. hotel bed and what stands out to me. there is what she describes as a very. intense physical reaction she says that.

she blacked out and she quickly. clarifies she doesn't mean from drugs or. alcohol she means that she says that the. intensity of this experience was such. that suddenly she can't remember every. detail the prosecution asks a question. that cuts directly to the sex. essentially did you start having sex. with him and Daniel says that she did. and she continues to provide more. details than even I think the. prosecution wanted and I think we don't. want to go chapter and verse through.

this claimed sexual encounter but I. wonder what details stand out and which. details feel important given the. prosecution strategy here all the. details stand out because it's a story. about having had sex with the former. president and the more salacious and. more private the details feel the more. you're going to remember them so we'll. remember that stormy Daniel said what. position they had sex in we'll remember. that she said he didn't use a condom. whether that's important to the. prosecution's case now that's a much. hard question to answer as we've been.

saying but what I can tell you is as. she's describing having had sex with. Donald Trump and Donald Trump is sitting. right there and Eric Trump his son is. sitting behind him seeming to turn like. a different color as he hears this. embarrassment of his father being. described to a courtroom full of. reporters at this trial it's hard to. even describe the energy in that room it. was like nothing I had ever experienced. and it was just daniels's testimony and. seemingly the former president emotions. and you almost felt like you were. trapped in there with both of them as.

this description was happening well I. think it's important to try to. understand why the prosecution is. getting these details these salacious. carnal pick your word graphic details. about sex with Don what is the value if. other details are clearly making the. point that she's recollecting something. well I think at this point we can only. speculate but one thing we can say is. this was uncomfortable this felt bad and.

remember prosecutor story is not about. the sex it's about trying to hide the. sex so if you're trying to show a jury. why it might be worthwhile to hide a. story it might be worth providing lots. of salacious details that a person would. want to hide exposing them to how bad. that story feels and reminding them that. if they had been voters and they had. heard that story and in fact they asked. Daniel this very question if you hadn't. accepted hush money if hadn't signed.

that NDA is this the story you would. have told and she said yes and so where. I think they're going with this but we. can't really be sure yet is that they're. going to tell the jurors hey that story. you can see why he wanted to cover that. up can't you you mentioned the hush. money payments what testimony does. Daniels offer about that and how does it. Advance the prosecution's case of. business fraud related to the hush money. payment so little evidence that it's. almost laughable she says that she. received the hush money but we actually.

already heard another witness her lawyer. at the time Keith Davidson testified. that he had received the hush money. payment on her behalf MH and she. testified about feeling as if she had to. sell this story because the election was. fast approaching almost as if her. leverage was slipping away because she. knew this would be bad for Trump that. feels important but just help me. understand why it's important well what. the prosecution has been arguing is that. Trump covered up this hush money payment.

in order to conceal a different crime. and that crime they say was to promote. his election to the presidency by. illegal means right we've talked about. this in the past so when Daniels ties. her side of the payment into the. election it just reminds the jurors. maybe oh right this is what they're. arguing so how does the prosecution end. this very dramatic and from everything. you're saying very tense questioning of. Stormy Daniels about this encounter well. before they can even end the defense. lawyer go and they consult among.

themselves and then with the jury out of. the room one of them stands up and he. says that the defense is moving for a. mistrial on what terms he says that the. testimony offered by Daniels that. morning is so prejudicial so damning to. Trump in the eyes of the jury that the. trial can no longer be fair like how. could these jurors have heard these. details and still be fair when they. render their verdict and he he says a. memorable expression he say you can't. unring that Bell meaning they heard it.

they can't unhear it it's over throw out. this trial it should be done wow and. what is the response from the judge so. the judge Juan Maran he hears them out. Ian he really hears them out but at the. end of their arguments he says I do. think she went a little too far he says. that he said there were things that were. better left unsaid by Stormy Daniels by. Stormy Daniels and he acknowledges that. she's a difficult witness but he says. the remedy for that is not a mistri. is not stopping the whole thing right.

now the remedy for that is. cross-examination if the defense feels. that there are issues with her story. issues with her credibility they can ask. her whatever they want they can try to. win the jury back over if they think. this jury has been poisoned by this. witness well this is their time to. provide the antidote the antidote is. cross-examination and soon enough. cross-examination. starts and it is exactly as. intense and combative as we.

[Music]. expected we'll be right. [Music]. back so Jonah how would you characterize. the defense's overall strategy in this.

intense cross-examination of stormmy. Daniels people know the word impeach. from presidential impeachments but has a. meaning in law too you impeach a witness. and specifically their credibility and. that's what the defense is going for. here they are going to try to make. Stormy Daniels look like a liar a fraud. an extortionist a money grubbing. opportunist who wanted to take advantage. of trump and sought to do so by any. means necessary and what did that. impeachment strategy look like in the.

courtroom the defense lawyer who. questions Stormy Daniels is a woman. named Susan necklace she's defended. Trump before and she's a bit of a. cross-examination specialist we even saw. her during jury selection bring up these. past details to kind of confront jurors. who had said nasty things about Trump on. social media with and she wants to do. the same thing with Daniel she wants to. bring up old interviews and old tweets. and things that Daniels has said in the. past that don't match what Daniels is.

saying from The Stance H what's a. specific example and do they land some. of them land and some of them don't one. specific example is that necklace. confronts Daniels with this old tweet. where Daniel says that she's going to. dance down the street if Trump goes to. jail and what she's trying to show there. is that Daniels is out for Revenge that. she hates Trump and that she wants to. see him go to jail and that's why she's. testifying against him got it and. Daniels is very interesting during the. cross- examination it's almost as if. she's a different person she kind of.

squares her shoulders and she sits up a. little straighter and she leans forward. Daniels is ready to fight but it doesn't. quite land the Tweet actually says I'll. dance down the street when he's selected. to go to jail and Daniels goes off on. this digression about how she knows that. people don't get selected to go to jail. that's not how it works but she can't. really unseat this argument that she's a. political enemy of Donald Trump so that. one kind of sticks I would say but there. are other moves that necklace tries to. pull that don't sck like what so unlike.

the prosecution which typically used. words like adult adult film necklace. seems to be taking every chance she can. get to say porn or pornography or porn. star to make it sound bass or dirty and. so when she starts to ask Daniels about. actually being in pornography writing. acting and directing sex films she tries. to land a punchline necklace does she. says so you have a lot of experience. making phony stories about sex appear to. be real right as if to say perhaps this. story you have told about entering.

Trump's Suite in Lake Tahoe and having. sex with him was made up just another. one of your fictional stories about sex. but Daniels comes back and says the sex. in the films it's very much real just. like what happened to me in that room. and so when you have this kind of combat. of lawyer cross-examining very. aggressively and the witness fighting. back you can feel the energy in the room. shift as one lands a blow or the other. does but here Daniels lands one back and.

the other issue that I think Susan. necklace runs into is she tries to draw. out disparities from interviews that. Daniels gave particularly to in touch. very early on once the story was out. it's kind of like a tabloid magazine but. some of the disparities don't seem to be. landing quite like necklace would want. so she tries to do this complicated. thing about where The Bodyguard was in. the room when Daniels walked into the. room as described in an interview in a. magazine but in that magazine interview. as it turns out Daniels mentioned that.

Trump was wearing pajamas and so if I'm. a juror I don't care where The Bodyguard. is I'm thinking about oh yeah I remember. that Stormy Daniels said now in 2024. that Trump was wearing pajamas I'm. curious if as somebody in the room you. felt that the defense was effective in. undermining stormy Daniel's credibility. because what I took from the earlier. part of our conversation was that Stormy. Daniels is in this courtroom on behalf. of the prosecution tell a story that's. uncomfortable. and has the kind of details that Donald.

Trump would be motivated to try to hide. and therefore this defense strategy is. to say those details about what Trump. might want to hide you can't trust them. so does this back and forth. effectively hurt Stormy Daniels. credibility in your. estimation I don't think that Stormy. Daniels came off as perfectly credible. about everything she testified about and. there are incidents that were unclear or. confusing there were things she talked.

about that I found hard to believe when. she for instance denied that she had. attacked Trump in a tweet or talked. about her. motivations but about what prosecutors. need that Central story the story of. having had sex with him we can't know. whether it happened but there weren't. that many disparities in these accounts. over the years in terms of things that. would make me doubt the story that. Daniels was telling details that don't. add up those weren't present and you. don't have to take my word for that nor.

should you but the judge is in the room. and he says something very very similar. what does he saying and why does he say. it well he does it when the defense. again at the end of the day on Thursday. calls for a mistrial with a similar. argument as before not only with a. similar argument as before but like. almost the exact same argument and I. would say that I was astonished to see. them do this but I wasn't because I've. covered other trials where Trump is the. client and in those trials the lawyers.

again and again called for a mistrial. and what does Judge Maran say in. response to this second effort to seek a. mistrial let me say to this one he seems. a little less patient he says that after. the first mistrial ruling 2 days before. he went into his Chambers and he read. every decision he had made about the. case he took this moment to reflect on. the first decision and he found that he. had in his own estimation which is all. he has been Fair and not allowed.

evidence that was prejudicial to Trump. into this trial it could continue and so. he said that again and then he really. almost turned on the defense and he said. that the things that the defense was. objecting to were things that the. defense had made happen H how so he says. that in their opening statement the. defense could have taken issue with many. elements of the case about whether they. were falsified business records about. any of the other things that prosecutors.

are saying happen but instead he says. they focus their energy on denying that. Trump ever had sex with Daniels and so. that was essentially an invitation to. the prosecution to call Stormy Daniels. as a witness and have her say from the. stand yes I had this sexual encounter. the upshot of it is that the judge not. only takes the defense to task but he. also just says that he finds stormy. daniels's narrative credible he doesn't. see it as having changed so much from.

year to year interesting so in thinking. back to our original question here Jonah. about the idea that putting Stormy. Daniels on the stand was risky I wonder. if by the end of this entire Journey. you're re-evaluating that idea cuz. doesn't sound like it ended up being. super risky it sounded like it ended up. working reasonably well for the. prosecution well let me just assert that. it doesn't really matter what I think. the jury is going to decide this there's.

12 people and we can't know what they're. thinking but my impression was that. while she was being questioned by the. prosecution for the prosecution's case. stormmy Daniels was a real liability she. was a difficult witness for them and the. judge said as much right but when the. defense cross-examined her Stormy. Daniels became a better witness in part. because their struggles to discredit her. may have actually ended up making her. story look more credible and stronger. and the the reason that matters is.

because remember we said that. prosecutors are trying to fill this hole. in their case well now they have the. jury has met stormmy Daniels they've. heard her account they've made of it. what they will and now the sequence of. events that prosecutors are trying to. line up as they seek prison time for the. former president really makes a lot of. sense it starts with what stormy Daniel. says with sex in a hotel suite in 2006. it picks up years later as Donald Trump. is trying to win an election and.

prosecutors say suppressing negative. stories including stormmy daniels's very. negative story and the story that. prosecutors are telling ends with Donald. Trump orchestrating the falsification of. business records to keep that story. concealed well. Jonah thank you very much we appreciate. it of course thanks for having me. [Music].

the prosecution's next major witness. will be Michael Cohen the former Trump. fixer who arranged for the hush money. payment to Stormy Daniels Cohen is. expected to take the stand on. Monday we'll be right back.

here's what else you need to know today. on Thursday Israeli Prime Minister. Benjamin Netanyahu issued a defiant. response to warnings from the United. States that it would stop supplying. weapons to Israel if Israel invades the. southern Gaza City of Rafa so far Israel. has carried out a limited incursion into. the city where a million civilians are.

Sheltering but has threatened a full. invasion in a statement Netanyahu said. quote if we need to stand alone we will. stand. alone meanwhile highlevel ceasefire. negotiations between Israel and Hamas. have been put on hold in part because of. anger over Israel's incursion into Rafa.

a reminder tomorrow we'll be sharing the. latest episode of our colleague's new. show the interview this week on the. interview Lulu Garcia Navaro talks with. radio host charl laag the god about his. frustrations with how Americans talk. about. politics if me as a black man if I. criticize Democrats then I'm supporting. Maga but if I criticize you know Donald. Trump and Republicans then I'm a.

democratic shill why can't I just be a. person who deals in. Nuance today's episode was produced by. Olivia Nat and Michael Simon Johnson it. was edited by Lexi di with help from. Paige coward contains original music by. Will Reed and Marian Lozano and was. engineered by Alyssa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of Wonderland. [Music].

that's it for the daily I'm M. Boro see you on Monday.