Stephen Miller’s Return to Power

from The New York Times I'm Natalie. kroof this is the. [Music]. daily at the center of Trump's. aggressive first week in office is a. 39-year-old adviser Steven. Miller it's his ideas and ideology that. have animated the president's. unprecedented Blitz of executive orders. today my colleague Jonathan Swan.

explains Miller's dramatic return to the. White House and why his power has never. been. [Music]. greater it's Monday January. [Music]. 27th Jonathan welcome back thanks for. having me I think a lot of us remember. Steven Miller from the first Trump term.

but now that he's back what do we need. to know about who Miller has become and. the role he's going to play this time. around well he's immensely powerful I. could make a case that he is one of if. not the most powerful unelected people. in America right. now he is Donald Trump's Deputy Chief of. Staff of policy which you know may not. sound that impressive but to take all. the jargon away he is in charge of.

domestic policy full stop president. Donald Trump's second term in the White. House Began with a flurry of unilateral. actions and he's showing no signs of. slowing down so many of the executive. orders that you've seen Donald Trump. sign with his Sharpie in his first week. in office were the work of Steven Miller. okay sir this is an executive order uh. realigning the United States Refugee. admission program this is a proclamation. uh guaranteeing the state's protection. against Invasion B on the current crisis.

at the southern border this next order. relates to the definition of Birthright. citizenship under the 14th Amendment of. the United States. Birthright that's a big one and Miller's. Vision that he's articulated for decades. is now translated into these executive. actions so okay tell us how Miller got. here how did he arrive at the beliefs. that are now you know defining these. opening days and.

Shifting the country to the right. especially on immigration well he. actually came to these beliefs very. early on Steven Miller was talking about. this populist nationalist stuff as a. child he grew up in Santa Monica in. California in the '90s he grew up in a a. fairly comfortable Jewish Family he was. at this liberal high school and he was. this provocator he was already attacking.

the left and making controversial. anti-immigrant statements when he was in. high school and so much so that his. classmates made a documentary about him. singling him out as a future. politician. hi I'm stepen. Miller and you know he runs for Student. Government am I the only one who is sick. and tired of being told to pick up my. trash and we have plenty of janitors who.

are paying to do it for us and when I. heard what he said I was outraged. because that shows campaigning on the. kids' rights to leave a mess so that the. janitors should pick up their trash. because they're paid to do so wow he. complained about the school's Spanish. language announcements complained about. you know the colorful festivals of. minority cultures and describe this. decline as he saw it.

of a more traditional version of. American Education I will say and I will. do things that no one else in their. right mind would say or do so all of. this that you're seeing now was visible. as far back as high school and I have to. imagine Jonathan I mean he's in La he's. in Santa Monica this is generally a kind. of liberal environment and he's going. against the grain here so there there's.

a part of that that's about you know. contradicting the people that are around. him the environment around him it also. just sounds like there's a piece of this. that is really. genuinely xenophobic he is extremely. hostile to immigrants he has always as. far back as high school rejected the. idea that immigration is a net positive. for America and he's been very. consistent in that and it's worth noting. yes he grew up in this very liberal.

environment in in Los Angeles but it it. was also a moment of a huge influx of. immigrants in California where there. were many conservatives in the state who. were railing against it so it's not like. his ideas were coming out of thin air. and he really plugged into this. right-wing ecosystem he would call up. Larry Elder a very well-known right-wing. commentator in California who was an. early mentor to Steven Miller uh he was.

obsessed with rash limbo who obviously. was a giant in right-wing. broadcasting and you know he was really. rebelling against the cultural. sensitivities of his high school and and. you saw that continue through college. how so what do you mean so Steven Miller. goes to Duke University and something. happens in 2006 that really defines his. experience there the investigation of. rape allegations against Duke. University's lacrosse team is still. going on.

this extraordinary incident that happens. at Duke where members of lacrosse team. at the school were accused of rape that. an anonymous woman's Cry for Help. shocked a nation and it became this huge. National story you had members of The. Faculty coming out condemning them. before anything was proven now for the. top story night exactly what's going on. at Duke University joining us now from. Raley Steven a columnist for the Duke.

Chronicle student newspaper and Steven. Miller becomes the face of the defense. you a student pretty much the only. person will talk to us what's going on. well you have a situation here where. like a lot of college campuses you have. this segment of professors that's very. powerful and very very far to the left. suddenly he's on. TV just had their lives ruined Lord your. first concern is that somebody's falsely. accused don't don't tell me what my. first concern is.

and thrusts him into the national. conversation you had three apparently. well-to-do white lacrosse players. accused of raping a poor black stripper. single mother and Durham if you hadn't. had that racial element there's no way. this case could have continued for that. long defending these players at a time. when you know the prevailing wisdom at. dukee University was that these players. were guilty and the idea that in America. you would pursue a case against three. people when the evidence suggests not.

that they did it but that they didn't do. it to me is beyond unconscionable and. these lacrosse players were declared. innocent and this was a really important. moment for him because here he was. taking a contrarian position against the. prevailing liberal. Orthodoxy and he ended up being. Vindicated okay he's proven right he. must be feeling pretty emboldened what. does he next he goes to Washington he.

goes to Capitol Hill and he ends up. working for Senator Jeff sessions of. Alabama Senator sessions in the early. 2010s. was a pretty fringe figure in the. Republican Senate conference if you take. your mind back to the 2012 election. Barack Obama beats mitt Romy and when. the Republican party after that election. sat down you know the Grand figures in.

the party got in a room together and. said what happened what do we need to. change Etc their famous autopsy. basically said we need to be nicer to. immigrants we need to do more to reach. out to Hispanics and that was the. prevailing wisdom on Capitol Hill among. Republicans the idea was broaden the. tent we can win elections if we bring. Latinos into our Coalition yes but very. specifically by being more compassionate.

quote unquote when it came to. immigration that sentiment became. operationalized in Congress so what you. had was the so-called gang of eight. which was a bipartisan group of senators. who got together and figured out a. pathway to comprehensive immigration. reform and you had Republicans like. Marco Rubio played a really significant. role in this bill so they came up with. legislation that sought a pathway to.

citizenship for millions of people who. are in the country illegally and they. also took some measures to tighten. border security and Steven Miller and. Jeff sessions identified this bill as. the big fight that they were going to. wage for the future of the party for the. future of the country and Steven Miller. became kind of famous in Washington. circles for hanging reporters late at.

night with emails with lurid stories. about immigrants committing crimes for. working behind the scenes with. conservative media for working every. lawmaker he could and it really was a. sort of David and Goliath in terms of. the politics of it in Washington and the. money stevenh Miller and Jeff sessions. at that time were very much a minority. voice in the party among the Elites in. Washington but they were far more in. tune with the Republican voters with the.

Bas right it sounds like they are. betting at this point Miller and. sessions that while there is a consensus. among the Republican establishment that. this is the right way to go that they. actually know what voters care about and. that this bill would not be popular with. the base of Voters that they're trying. to win over yes and and they were right. because once they activated you know. this opposition movement these law. lawmakers in the house their phones were.

being lit up by Angry voters angry. constituents saying do not do this and. the bill never went through the house W. so they killed it so this is a huge. victory for Miller Another instance in. which it's him against the world and. what you said was this kind of uphill. battle he comes out on top and yet. Republicans in his own party it sounds. like are still swatting him away like a. fly I mean he's still an outsider. even among conservatives at this point.

no question the Washington Republican. establishment at that time saw Steven. Miller as an. irritant and dismissed him and you know. it's interesting now you know when my. colleagues Maggie Haberman Charlie. Savage David fold and myself reported. out this story you know you talk to. people who were in influential positions. back then they can't believe where he's. ended up but that all changed when.

Donald Trump launched his campaign for. president in. 2015 tell us about that well it was. almost a religious experience for him. watching Donald Trump come down that. escalator wow Jeff sessions was his. vehicle at that time but Jeff sessions. does not have the Charisma to be a true. National figure Jeff sessions was never. going to win the. presidency here is this celebrity Donald. Trump every American knows who he is.

gives this speech where he says that. Mexico is sending rapists across the. border I mean Steven Miller could have. written that speech and it's this moment. of. exhilaration for Steven Miller he didn't. know Donald Trump at that point he. wasn't wired into his inner circle but. he starts over a period of months. getting in touch with Donald Trump's. team offering. ideas and eventually he gets absorbed.

onto the Donald Trump team and they see. immediately his value he would stay up. all night writing speeches this was his. whole life it was all he cared about he. was obsessed particularly with the. immigration issue but obsessed with. getting Donald Trump elected and so he. became this indispensable figure for. Donald Trump it's interesting it's it's. like in Trump Miller finds this IDE. theological soulmate in a way and a guy.

who can really help move his vision from. the fringes to the mainstream and in. Miller Trump finds a Workhorse who is. willing to stay up all night and design. a kind of campaign that appeals to. voters exactly and and you know the. other element was Trump trusts him Trump. has always been very paranoid about. leakers around him and he's never seen.

Steven that way he's always viewed. Steven as someone he can completely. trust okay so Donald Trump obviously. wins How does Miller start to put his. imprint on the first term so Miller. comes into government he really doesn't. know a lot about how the federal. government works he's super aggressive. he wants to get things done he wants to. close the border and expel immigrants. and do all the things that they've been. talking about on the campaign but does.

not necessarily have the wherewithal at. that time to execute one of the early. stumbles was the travel ban against. Muslim majority countries it was very. sloppily drafted poorly coordinated and. it ended up being struck down right they. had to redraft it they implement the. infamous Zero Tolerance policy where. they separate parents from their. children at the border but after a. period of bad media coverage Donald. Trump Trump reverses that order and that.

was something that Steven Miller had. advocated for and so Steven Miller found. himself thwarted at many levels. throughout the first couple of years of. the presidency but by 2020 he had really. gotten his. [Music]. footing he'd learned a lot about where. the levers of power were in the. government and by the end they used Co. to effectively seal the southern border.

they Implement title 42 which is to. declare a public health emergency at the. border which basically gave them the. ability to immediately turn people back. it would be hard to overstate the impact. of that policy I mean it it literally. reshaped the immigration system. completely for Miller it sounds like. this first term is kind of a mixed bag. right I mean he has a lot of success as. you just said in reshaping some of the. rules of the game on the issue he cares.

most about immigration but at the same. time his lack of westwing experience and. knowhow gets in the way of achieving his. full vision that's right and when Donald. Trump leaves office in early. 20121 Steven Miller gets to work for the. next four years planning what they would. do in a second term if he ever retook. the. presidency and planning how they would. get through any and all obstruction from.

the left for this return to. [Music]. power we'll be right back.

Jonathan what did Miller do exactly. during those four years to put himself. in a position to more effectively. execute his vision so Steven Miller does. a few things one is he starts a. nonprofit called America First legal and. what he does with this group is he. basically builds in his mind the. right-wing version of the ACLU he had. spent the previous four years in. frustration with very effective left.

leaning groups sued the Trump. Administration on all sorts of policy. areas and Steven Miller wanted to create. a version of that on the right but the. most important thing he did immediately. after they left office was he. demonstrated his undying loyalty to. Donald Trump remember when Trump left. office he was a pariah he was a defeated. president but also an impeached. president president twice over and came.

close to being convicted by the Senate. many people wanted to move on from him. they saw him as the past not the future. and at this moment of Abandonment. joining me now former senior adviser to. Trump Steven Miller Steven Miller very. publicly showed that he never left. Donald Trump's side well first of all. the president did a stellar job and all. credit goes to him it was his he when on. television praising Trump defending.

Trump the treatment Donald Trump has. gotten one false allegation after. another one investigation after another. he made very clear that he wasn't going. anywhere this was one of the president's. signature achievements and when he's on. TV he's defending Trump but he's also. pushing forward his immigration agenda. we Beed the most secure Border in US. history he went on Fox News seal the. Border. Deport all the illegals he spoke at.

conservative conferences that's the. short answer right it's and he made sure. that an anti-immigration perspective and. a prot trump perspective were staying. front and center among conservatives the. military has the right to establish a. fortress position on the border and to. say no one can cross here at. all and the closer to the election we. got the more specific he got in his. plans.

and the last thing Steven Miller does is. he leverages his credibility and his. connection to Trump to build. relationships what does that look like. well there's two elements to it so. number one is on Capital Hill Steven. Miller knows that he's going to need a. lot of money to do what Donald Trump. calls the largest deportation operation. in American history that involves. building. massive detention camps in the desert to.

hold migrants while you're waiting to. fly them out of the country it involves. a huge amount of resources to round up. immigrants arrest them so he very. methodically builds relationships in the. Republican house and in the Republican. Senate the second category that was. really important is rich people he. builds incredible donor Rel. relationships and raises a ton of money.

for the nonprofit more than $40. million but there's a quiet relationship. that he builds that only became visible. pretty recently and he still is very. secretive about it and that's his. relationship with Elon Musk so musk had. been very secretive about his political. spending he did not want people knowing. what he was up to but he was secretly. funding a bunch of advertising against. transgender rights and other issues and.

Steven Miller's group was associated. with this spending so he was operating. in secrecy as an advisor political. donations advisor to Elon Musk wow and. that relationship. became super important as musk then. became all in for Trump spent more money. than anyone else trying to elect Donald. Trump Jonathan it's not lost on me.

obviously that this guy who was made fun. of at one point in Washington is now. making friends in high places and really. cultivating the kinds of allies that he. needs I mean the richest guy in the. world for example to make sure that he. can wield his power efficiently it. sounds like he is actively trying to. make up for strategic holes that may. have been there in the first term that's. right the first Advantage Steven Miller. had in in the four years out of power.

was he had a plan he had the space to. work on policy plans and that was really. evident to me when myself Charlie Savage. and Maggie habberman did this big story. in late 2023 on Trump's immigration. plans and we did an extensive interview. with Steven Miller and if you go back. and read our story New York Times copy. paste copy paste and it's what you're. seeing right now he had a fully formed. vision and it is exactly what they're.

doing right now so he had the plan but. he also had these big thoughts of. execution that were really important. it's what I'll just call flood the Zone. his idea of flood the zone is you do so. many things at once so many aggressive. controversial actions at once at speed. that your opposition is scattered and. almost defenseless when it's one of 50. or 100 actions that are extremely.

controversial there's only so much. bandwidth for the opposition to must. resistance must resources must outrage. must legal action so you just flood the. zone you do so many things at once that. your opposition they might stop some of. them but they can't stop all of them. overwhel overwhelm overwhelm overwhelm. okay but Jonathan I think it's worth. noting that just last week Miller's. strategy ran into something of a wall. this federal judge knocked down the.

executive order ending Birthright. citizenship the judge said I'm quoting. here I've been on the bench for over. four decades this is a blatantly. unconstitutional order where were the. lawyers when this decision was being. made so I'm wondering does this mirror. the sloppiness of the Muslim ban in the. first term does it raise questions for. you about whether Miller's four years of. preparation did actually put him in a. better position position to execute his. vision no I don't think this has.

anything to do with sloppiness they knew. this was going to get challenged in. court they knew that this was Radical. audacious policy so this is not a matter. of sloppiness this is a matter of them. testing the limits and seeing what they. can get away with very deliberately is. that part of the flood the Zone strategy. it is I mean look they know that some of. the actions they're taking are not going. to pass legal must that's a feature not. a bug they're doing so many things at.

once to crack down on immigrants to. deport immigrants to block immigrants. from entering the country that the. aggregate is going to be hugely. restrictive even if certain individual. actions fail in the courts okay we're. just at the start obviously of this. Administration but when I think about. what the likelihood of Miller having. success here long term is I have to ask. about something that you mentioned. earlier which is the potential for.

moderating forces within Trump World. people that oppose some of his agenda do. those people still exist are those. forces still. there no if people are searching for. internal opposition In The West Wing to. the Trump Steven Miller ideology you're. not going to find them they don't exist. anymore where you will find obstacles. are in Congress Republicans have very.

tight majorities and we've already seen. how dysfunctional the house Republican. right majority is and and so there's. real questions there you'll find. obstruction potentially in the court. system it's not a given that all their. policies um will sail. through frankly if you're looking for. restraint on Steven Miller's. maximalist impulses on immigration in. particular it's Donald.

Trump Donald Trump is the restraining. force on Steven Miller I I yeah really. how so well he's not as hardcore as. Stephen Miller is on immigration Trump. is very sensitive to the stock market he. does not want to see the stock market. tank under his tenure and if there are. actions on immigration that would cause. inflation you know deporting Farm. Workers and other. that's something that's going to really.

make Trump think twice about following. through and the other one is media. coverage I mean we saw in term one he. did not tolerate that period of really. aggressive wrenching media coverage. particularly on television about family. separation these horrible images of. crying children and what have you and so. Trump backed off that policy so Trump in. combination with the stock market and. media as his kind of own guard rails is.

actually probably the closest thing you. have to uh a restraint on the full. Steven Miller ideology and how does. Miller respond when Trump is not fully. aligned with him when they. disagree with complete difference and. I'll give you the perfect example of. that there's been this huge debate on. the right recently about H1B visas these. high school visas the tech companies. love to bring in smart engine and and. what have you from overseas step Miller.

has spent a good deal of his adult life. railing against these visas but Donald. Trump supports them and from all. accounts Steven Miller has done very. little if anything to try to dissuade. Trump from that position recently so I. often find when I meet people who who. never interacted with step Miller. they've only consumed him through Fox. News or whatever they have an impression. of him that he is this. Firebreather kamakazi pilot my way or. the highway fight to the death.

whatever actually the opposite extremely. pragmatic a very canny political. Survivor you don't survive as long as he. has in Trump's Inner Circle without. being like that because the person. you're working for Donald Trump does not. really have firm principles or firm. ideology he's completely transactional. he's got a few gut impulses and if you. think that you can shift him on.

everything you turn out like Steve. Bannon you don't stay in his inner staff. Circle so he has learned how to operate. in Trump world and how to survive in. Trump World and that's why he is one of. The Originals who Still Remains and is. one of the most effective members of the. current staff Jonathan I have to say. just thinking about Miller's bio that. guy the guy who kind of backs down from.

a fight who concedes. strategically he's come a long way from. the high schooler who you know was this. strident ideological Warrior who in some. cases was starting fights to make a. point to go against the grain he's a. different. person his gut Remains the Same but he's. learned a lot he's learned a lot about. how to get what he. wants and knowing that you're not going. to get everything you want and knowing.

that you might have to set aside a fight. for the moment because the person that. is most important to you Donald Trump. may not agree and you know that you're a. staffer and you work for. him and he's not going to get everything. he wants this term but he's going to. learn he's going to keep learning and he. might be blocked here or he might be. blocked there but if there's one thing. that we know about him by this point. it's that he won't.

stop Jonathan thank you so much thank. [Music]. you on Sunday the immigration Crackdown. that Miller helped craft continued to. take shape the president of Colombia. said that his country had turned away. military planes carrying Colombian. Deportes he said Colombia would not. accept any deportation flights from the. United States until the Trump. Administration created a process to.

treat Colombian migrants with quote. dignity and respect in response Trump. threatened a barrage of retaliatory. measures against the country including. sanctions and 25% tariffs on all. Colombian Imports late Sunday night the. Colombian president Gustavo Pro backed. down and agreed to let deportation. flights into the country the White House. said in a statement that because the. Colombian president had agreed to all of. its terms the tariffs and sanctions that. Trump had threatened would be quote held.

in. reserve we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. today former South Dakota governor. Christine gome was sworn in as Homeland. Security secretary on Saturday putting. her in charge of the agency that's at. the heart of Trump's immigration. Crackdown. the department runs Customs and Border.

Protection and Immigration and Customs. Enforcement gome is a close Trump Ally. who was once seen as a potential running. mate for the. president and on Sunday Pete heith was. sworn in as defense secretary after. overcoming a claim of sexual harassment. and accusations of abusive behavior and. public drunkenness he was narrowly. confirmed by the Senate over the weekend. with vice president JD Vance casting the. deciding vote after a 50/50 tie the.

final vote was the slimmest margin for a. defense secretary's confirmation since. the position was created in. 1947 today's episode was produced by. Mary Wilson Jessica Chung Nina Feldman. and Eric krupy it was edited by Brendan. clink Berg with help from Paige cowt. fact check by Will pel contains original. music by Alicia e and Marian Lozano and.

was engineered by Chris Wood our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of. [Music]. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Natalie kitro see you tomorrow. [Music].