Putin’s Opposition Ponders a Future Without Aleksei Navalny

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. daily last week the Russian authorities. announced that Alexa navali the leader. of Russia's opposition movement had died. in prison at the age of 47 navali was. Vladimir Putin's most audacious and. Relentless critic his fight against. corruption resonated far beyond liberal. Moscow and his Central message to. Russians do not be afraid because our.

fear is their power that was how navali. lived his life thumbing his nose at. Putin's regime in the face of poisoning. prison and ultimately. death today his friend yeva albatz on. how Alexa naali became such a singular. political force and what it means for. his country that he's. [Music]. gone it's Thursday February.

[Music]. 22nd can you hear me I can can you hear. me oh good yes what's up you know lately. how you. doing I'm okay I'm okay how are you. doing uh I don't know how to answer this. question to go for you yeah I after the. death of Nal I called y alotz who goes.

bya she's a Russian journalist and. academic she studies political science. she knew and worked with Nal for decades. she now lives in Exile in the United. States I'm divided between two. languages I constantly think in English. and in Russian and I constantly listen. to podcasts and YouTube shows in Russian. and in English.

and uh uh I think I live more inside. Russia than I live inside the United. States except when you have your. primaries and then I'm in New Hampshire. in South. Carolina and I'm waiting for the super. Tuesday so Jia tell me about the first. time you met Alexa Nali remember back. for me where were you at that moment I. was in w it was.

2004 I started uh teaching at University. as a professor of political. science I thought that I was done with. journalism so I. decided to collect you know the group of. young politicians democratically. oriented young. politicians and try to teach them. grassroot. politics and so they started coming to. my house in was go on this nice Street.

each. Tuesday there was some 20 young people. okay I was cooking the Medina chicken. and. potatoes and we were sitting around the. table and we were discussing what can we. do the people who showed up to Jen's. apartment many of them have since gone. into Exile are been jailed in Russia but. back in those days they all came to talk. about politics and figure out how to do.

Grassroots organizing in Russia a. country that had very little experience. with that well started preparing R. protest R and one of the people who. walked through her doors for one of. those Tuesday get togethers was Alexa. naali and so he came he was 27 years old. back then he was. tall. handsome he was slightly. stoed he she had a bad.

haircut uh she had a beer belly a beer. belly. yes and J what was your first impression. of him what did you think I mean. remember back for me uh. smart very. attentive very good in fulfilling tasks. and getting things done.

but. n was not exactly very good. speaker when Jor first met navali he was. working a desk job for an opposition. party Jena said he wasn't very happy and. he wanted something more at the time he. wasn't the polished political leader. that we know today great speech and. mumbled something and I was watching him. I was thinking God it's so unfair he's. so handsome so goodlooking he's a pure. Pol politician with this beautiful.

Slavic face but he's unable to speak but. she quickly realized he had promise when. the two of them went out to canvas on. behalf of a friend from those Tuesday. dinners who was running for local office. in. Moscow we came to speak to people in the. courtyard MH and they were babush you. know grandmothers grandmothers exactly. and we were trying to ask them what are. their concerns and they were resentful. they didn't want to speak to us you know.

who all these young people you know for. asking them all this kind of ridiculous. questions and then I saw me. who came. forward and he. smiled and then he said some joke and he. helped one Grandma to get to the bench. and he took another Grandma under her um.

and he started talking and all of a. sudden it was like a miracle all of them. they were listening to him they were. looking at him they were totally in love. with him and that's when you know the. first time when I I thought he's a born. politician that's his talent his amazing. ability to get people on his side to. talk to them so he had Charmed these.

resentful grandmothers he don't just. Charmed you know he sort of he became. their. son really who was capable to help them. you know IAL had a lot of great. qualities in himself but he was lacking. education and he himself realized that. pretty early in his life and then what. Nani grew up in a military town outside.

of Moscow Jen says that the schools he. attended there were pretty bad with a. narrow Soviet curriculum but navani was. hungry to learn if he was going to have. a real political future in Russia he. needed to do more than just charm. grandmothers in. Courtyards and so in 2009 he had an idea. now came to my office and he said. Jena I want to go to Yale univers.

I really think I need to spend a year in. the good University take. classes and he got into this world. leaders program at H. University and person for mons he. started all things related to American. Party politics it was very important to. understand for him what kind of system. of check and balance was built in this.

country the role of the Supreme Court. but also how do you win elections that's. what he was looking for first and for. Miles so it was important for his. political education exactly he was. looking and he had to learn how to do it. how to. [Music]. win Jena says he became a voracious. consumer of all things politics but also. you know this famous TV series wire the.

wire even TV shows remember you know. Season 3 and four there are election. campaign for the mayor of Baltimore. everything that had to do with politics. he was watching or reading and he was. picking up different tools and he. started trying out some of the things he. was learning he told me that he put. chairs for the elderly people who came. to his railes precisely so that that you. know they could see it comfortably and.

he said you know what J I saw it in the. house of cards I saw it in the house of. cards and I thought that's a great idea. so he saw in the House of Cards the. television show with Kevin spacy he saw. that political leaders would put chairs. for elderly people because you know that. was something you were supposed to do as. a politician navali did. that yes but meanwhile he wasn't just. studying up on American politics he was. also teaching himself how to use YouTube.

building a following online and he was. studying public. [Music]. speaking and he came up on the stage and. that was brilliant speech and his. political activity and his speeches. started getting more. [Applause]. polished asking this 100,000 strong. crowd. standing in front of him who is the real.

power in this country we are we going to. give up our inspiration to take our. country back. no there was huge energy which was. coming out of him he was very sincere. and you felt like he was talking. directly to you okay so navani is is. getting a political education he's.

becoming a more polished speaker and he. starts to run for office so he runs for. mayor of Moscow in 2013 he gets a pretty. significant share of the vote in by. Russian standards right above 27% 27%. okay and then in. 2018 he makes a big move he takes on. Putin himself tell me about that NAA. decided to run for the presidency. by then everyone in Russia already.

recognized that the only guy who was. capable to challenge Putin what let say. naal. and naal started traveling around the. country Russia is a huge country it's. the biggest country in the world 11 time. zones so he was going from gal mountains. to the Russian far from the fares to. magad from Madan to the White Sea and.

Etc and he was running a campaign pretty. much the way that campaign is run in the. United. States and N spoke from the roof of the. garages from the stairs of different. buildings spoke from the roofs of the. apartment buildings you know he would. speak from the L we should we must live.

better but we don't because they've. stolen everything from us and they steal. from us every day critics say the. opposition he say let's go to the creman. and get our power back power should be. in our hands not in the hands of those. Crews of those cheaters of those people. who stole the wealth of the country he. called the people in the Kremlin Crooks. and cheaters and said they had stolen. your money in fact Russia's money that.

they were thieves basically exactly and. people were cling by thousands to listen. to. him and a friend of mine wrote to me. that he was impressed to see how people. who were pretty much resentful about. naali who considered him to be a. populist and was afraid of his. popularism. at the end of the meeting they gave him.

standing. AAS they were so. impressed and so it was important to. bring politics from Moscow down to the. provinces to the regions of the Russian. Federation and bring people there to. recognize that they need him as a. president because he was going to make. life of their City their Town their. region better more democratic more.

[Music]. prosperous and Jena what were you. thinking as you were watching all of. this unfold I mean he's doing this very. unusual thing for Russia right this. thing that to an American audience is. just sort of meat and potatoes political. campaigning but in Russia was kind of a. revelation yes I was thinking that I was. afraid that they were going to kill him.

it was already after Baris n was killed. back in. 2015 this is a another important. opposition leader who was killed not far. from the Kremlin actually in a political. assassination. yes did navani himself worry about being. killed did he talk about this with. you no I wouldn't say that he. talked but you know whenever I was. about the question of his you know.

security or getting people who would at. least protect him he kept saying that. basically it's. impossible I think you know he just. didn't allow himself to think about that. Jen did you have any personal. conversations with him about why he. wanted to run against Putin in the. presidential election why he wanted to. do that because we knew that Putin was. very very dangerous that it was.

important to stop him because already. the majority of democratic institutions. in the country was subverted courts. didn't exist Judiciary didn't exist. Puttin subordinates from the eff being. all this checks they were grabbing. people's property kicking out people you. know putting them in jail making them to. go in Exile so it's already you know it. was clear that Putin Was preparing for. some awful development and they had to.

be. stopped and it was clear that the only. one who was capable to stop Putin was. iali nobody else had balls to do that as. simple as. that it was not that we. discussed whether he should or should. not it was clear that he had. [Music]. to.

[Music]. we'll be right. [Music]. back election officials in Russia have. banned opposition leader Alexi naali. from running for president the country's. Election Commission has barred the. Kremlin critic from standing in the. March vote citing a controversial. embezzlement conviction n says was. politically. motivated.

Russian opposition leader Alex Nal has. called for a boycott of next year's. election after the country's Central. Election Commission rejected his bid to. take part well Lexi Nal believes that if. he ran against Vladimir Putin in what he. deemed would be a free and fair election. that he could beat Vladimir Putin and he. actually thinks that Putin is afraid of. him afraid of Alexi. navali. [Music].

when the effort to get him on the ballot. failed what was naval's. reaction he was extremely upset he was. very very angry but he doesn't relent in. his political activities right he. continues to speak out against Putin and. eventually Putin tries to take navali. out he poisons him and navali ends up. convalescing in Germany where he. recovers this is a very dramatic part of.

his life and he makes at that point an. interesting decision which is that he's. going to leave his family in Germany and. return to Russia where it seemed like he. was pretty much certainly going to be. arrested and put in prison and yet he. goes. back so why why to be honest with you I. think that he didn't have any any other. option to the turn back you cannot ask.

people to be brave and to. resist and to reject the regime sitting. in the luxury of the European capitals. you have to be with your people and. that's exactly what he said I'm Russian. politician so I have to be in Russia he. said and he had to demonstrate to people. that it was possible to overcome any.

fear when he was on trial he had a piece. of paper and her wrote on it I am not. afraid and you shouldn't be afraid as. well when he gave his interview to uh. the director of this movie uh. documentary. naal and he was asked what's going to. happen what people should know if you. get. killed and and his answer was if I get.

killed my only message to you and he. said is in Russian don't give. up don't give up that was his slogan. that was the main principle of his life. don't give up don't be afraid it's. important Sabrina to understand that. Soviet KB and now this Putin's FSB this. political police which are running the. country its power is based on people's.

fear they're capable to control the. country because people are afraid and so. naal was trying to send this message. don't be afraid we have to fight these. people this is our country and that's. what we have to do so really more than. any other political issue his. fundamental message was our fear is.

their power don't allow them that don't. give it to them that's what he was. saying to people exactly. 100% And I realized it sounds like Jena. he didn't think he had any other option. you don't think potentially he had any. other option he had to go back because. that's who he. was but I wonder if you think now was. that the right. decision to return to.

Russia yes it was the right decision to. return back to. Russ yes he gambled yes he thought that. Putin he wouldn't dare to kill him. because he was well too famous and he. returned back after he exposed P's. henchman and he wrote to me in one of. his letters I know that I'm going to sit. in jail as long as Putin is alive he.

knew that you know it's very difficult. to get into someone's else uh head but. you know I just think that he felt. humilated to be afraid of Putin or. anybody. else he had the sense of mission of he. was running a good. fight and he had all the intention to. win this fight and if you think that.

you're going to get killed or you start. to pity yourself you know like her wrote. to me stop being upset everything is. okay it's just a historical. process Russia is going through this. historical process and we are going. along with it everything is going to be. okay and. even if everything is not going to be. okay we can consult ourselves we will. get consolation in the fact of having.

lived honest lives of being honest. people Jen it strikes me that naval's. true superpower was that he was not. afraid he had this kind of. incomprehensible lack of fear this. confidence that he could win despite. what it looked like from the outside and. that that gave him this ability to kind. of thumb his nose at the sister system. right to sort of make fun of it and show.

people that in the end it's just a bunch. of idiots trying and failing to poison. his underwear right like the system was. nothing but that it wasn't that. scary but now that he's dead it's like. that magic trick it. disappears and the death itself seems to. teach a different lesson that people. should be afraid that the system is that. scary what do you think think of. that I'm not.

afraid and you know if you look at those. in Russia thousands and thousands of. people come and you know They Mourn and. grief. nowly almost 400 people were arrested. people were beaten by the police but. people keep coming and coming and coming. and when you look at their faces you see. that that these are predominant the. young. people he presented the future to.

them are they going to give up on their. future are they going to go into Exile. all of them it's not. possible but they may stay quiet and do. nothing which is what he advised against. right I mean you know you say Jena. you're not afraid but you're in the US. in Exile right it's frightening this. regime and it's a natural response to be. afraid of it so I guess I'm just. wondering what is his legacy like what's.

left you know he's. gone is there anything that survives. him I think his. legacy is his belief that Russia is not. doomed that Russia will become a normal. civilized. Democratic free peaceful and prosperous. country. and I think that his belief and his.

courage and the fact that he sacrificed. his one and the only life for the future. of Russia that's what will become an. inspiration for millions of young. Russians I cannot stand the thought that. his death was in vain and I think that. his wife jul na she is going to defend. and to carry on the kind of fight that.

naal tragically failed to accomplish. because he was. killed J what are you going to miss most. about your friend about. alexe his smile I'm going to miss his. smile I'm going to miss our. conversations I'm going to miss the. friend who was ready to give his hand. even from.

jail I'm going to miss a. politician who was capable to turn my. country into a normal Democratic free. and peaceful. country I still you know I sometimes you. know I just walk around my. apartment and I say out loud. aosa where are. you it's still hard to.

comprehend that he's no longer with. us and I'm going to miss my. friend that's why he was my friend of 20. years you know the last time I saw him. it wasn't the in his penal colony it was. in the summer of. 2022 and he came and he hugged me and I. told him don't worry. about your parents I'm taking care about.

them and then I saw how you know he. walked out of this Hall he was getting. into the door that led to this prison. Barrack and you know a minute ago he was. smiling and um he was you know saying. something funny and encouraging. Etc and I saw how his face became duck. and I was thinking God you know what are.

they doing to this brilliant human. being how long will he be able to. withstand all that torture and. humiliation and now of course I think. how he. died and it makes me sick to think that. he died alone surrounded by all this. dotting little people and I'm so sorry.

for. him he was just 47 year. old and I think that it is so. unfair that an evil guy an evil. person he lives in. Comfort even though he brings no good to. anyone around. him and me is laying somewhere in the.

morg in the Arctic. Circle and there is no. sun Shena thank you for talking to. me thank you Saina good night. Jane good. [Music]. night the Russian authorities have yet. to give naval's body back to his.

family on Tuesday his mother Ludmila. naal stood in front of the Arctic prison. where he was being held to demand her. son's. release she said quote I ask you. Vladimir Putin let me finally see my son. the decision is entirely in your.

[Music]. hands we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today Alabama's Supreme Court has ruled. that Frozen embryos in test tubes should. be considered children a decision that. sent shock waves through the world of. Reproductive Medicine. the ruling issued late last week stemmed.

from appeals cases brought by couples in. Alabama whose embryos were destroyed in. 2020 on Wednesday the ruling was already. having a profound effect the University. of Alabama at Birmingham Health System. announced that it was pausing inv vitro. fertilization treatments while it. evaluated the Court's. ruling and the times reports that. President Biden is considering executive. action that could prevent people who.

cross illegally into the United States. from claiming. Asylum the extraordinary action would. put into effect a key policy in a. bipartisan bill that Republicans. thwarted earlier this month it is. similar to a 2018 effort by then. president Donald Trump to stop migration. which was eventually blocked by federal. courts but even if Biden's effort gets. stopped in Court a legal fight could. allow him to try to neutralize one of.

his biggest political vulnerabilities. the chaos at the southern. border today's episode was produced by. Rob zipco Mo zadii Ricky nety and Sydney. Harper it was edited by Lisa Chow fact. checked by Susan Lee contains original. music by Marian Lozano Alicia Bebe and. Pat mccusker and translations by Milana.

maaya and was engineered by Alysa Moxley. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and. Ben Lanser of. wonderly special thanks to Anton. trovi that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina tavernes see you. tomorrow. [Music].