Inside Ukraine’s Drone Attacks on Russia

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernici and this is the daily. [Music]. as Ukraine's counter-offensive grinds on. it increasingly turning to a secret. drone program that's hitting targets. Russian territory. today. I talked to my colleague Christian. trebert about the origins of that. program. and to Sergey pritula a former.

television host in Ukraine who is now a. key force be. Hind. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. Tuesday September 19th. [Music]. Christian welcome to the show thank you. very much for having me yeah so.

Christian tell me about how you first. came to investigate Ukraine's drone. program. so in early May unverified footage. appears to show an object flying toward. the Dome of the Kremlin before bursting. into flames the whole world wasn't shock. because these two drones attacked the. Kremlin tonight there's a mystery in. Moscow the Kremlin accusing Ukraine of. launching drone attacks Ambit killing. President Vladimir Putin Ukraine denies.

it and it was kind of like Unthinkable. of course the Russian invasion foolskill. invasion of Ukraine had been going on. for over a year but suddenly like two. drones exploding above the Kremlin was. like wow they're hitting where Putin is. in the heart of Moscow it was wild does. Ukraine have drones that could reach the. Kremlin five six hundred miles from the. Ukrainian border and it was surprising. because. Ukraine doesn't have equipment that does. that right so it was sort of like wait.

is this someone inside Russia doing this. a Kremlin attack who is this exactly and. that was the big question like who is. responsible for this and how could they. pull over an attack like this because. Moscow is hundreds of miles away from. the Ukrainian border so was it someone. inside Russia was it Ukraine with some. secret weapon. foreign. part of a team called visual. investigations and basically what we're. doing is trying to find any visual clue. that we can find think of a satellite. image think of a tick tock video.

security camera footage think of. official statements you name it the. piece together what's going on and we. try to do that with this attack. there was security camera footage of. those drones one exploding and one. seemingly hitting one of the domes of. the Kremlin so we're like okay it's kind. of grainy footage but frame by frame can. we measure the wingspan can we match it. to something that we have seen before. and we couldn't really find a match it. was a mystery it was an absolute mystery.

yeah. and so then what happened so as we're. looking into this me and my colleagues. right I got a text message and it's like. hey Christian long time no speak would. you like to know more about these drones. that hit the Kremlin wait who's the text. message from it's a person that I've. known for a long time haven't been in. contact for years turns out to be this. person that texted me is in this. homegrown do-it-yourself long-range.

drone program basically a secret weapons. program that's building a drone that can. hit the Kremlin and I get a photo of. kind of like funky looking drone and I'm. like wow this is interesting I gotta I. gotta see what's this about so what did. you do we started chatting we started. talking mostly on signal but it's very. secretive right right and for that. reason people are extremely careful to. talk about it right they don't want to. become a Target exactly so it seemed the.

best way for me to better understand it. was to just go to Ukraine to to see some. of these drones to talk to the people. involved in it in person. so I go to Ukraine I meet my source and. I try to meet as many people more like. one leads to another and what I start to. understand is that it's just not one. person or one company or one government. agency building one single drone it's.

multiple entities within the government. outside of the government private. companies that are all kind of racing to. build a drone that can hit the Kremlin. that can cover that long distance. and we're talking here about very. specific type of drone on the one in its. long range so it can really cover those. long distances for example from the. Ukrainian border hundreds of miles to. the Russian Capital Moscow and secondly. these drones are one way and one use.

meaning they take off they fly towards. their Target and then they explode on. Target and that's it that's the lifespan. of the Drone so Kamikaze exactly. and this is a pretty novel technology. Ukraine wasn't known to have this very. little countries around the world. actually are known to have this. technology because it's pretty hard. right you need to build something that. flies for hundreds of miles and can then. also carry a payload and needs to.

navigate through air defenses electronic. warfare you name it. [Music]. and what did you learn about how Ukraine. managed to develop this technology that. so few countries have I mean I don't. think of Ukraine as you know Cutting. Edge military technology place so it all. started in mid-october last year. and that's when Russia started hitting. Kiev and other Ukrainian cities with. kamikaza drones that they had bought. from Iran.

today we woke up to the sound of. explosions in Kiev as the Russians. launched a massive drone attack against. this city Kiev says fragments of this. drone shot down in southern Ukraine have. Iranian as well as Russian markings. these are the type of weapons that the. US and other Western Nations allied with. Ukraine are not willing to give to Kiev. because they're worried that Kiev will. use those weapons sooner or later to. indeed strike inside Russia with.

whatever the consequences may be if you. use Western weapons to strike Moscow for. example right the Americans don't want. to give the Ukrainian stuff to make. these things because that could prompt. ukrainians actually striking the Kremlin. and the Kremlin pushing the nuclear. button right so because of that worry. because the West's not willing to give. those weapons to Ukraine ukraines were. like okay we'll have to build them. ourselves so they got together basically. anyone that has some idea of like how do. we build a drone and scramble together.

to build this capacity themselves but it. takes of course some time and they start. repurposing reconnaissance drones that. are not intended to explode or to fly. and hit a Target and it seems like just. trying to reach Moscow because here and. there we see like posts on Telegram and. Russian small villages and communities. where they just find a drone which we. identified as being Ukrainian made in a. forest I was being told by one of the.

people involved in a drone program yeah. like you know sometimes we hit a tree or. a power line so it doesn't really work. or has the intended effect yet but then. they also start asking publicly for. money volunteer vantres to start saying. hey you know we want to raise money for. a long-range striking capability for. Ukraine okay so it wasn't actually going. that well they're starting to repurpose. things the things hit trees not going. very far they need money and it reaches.

this kind of fundraising stage right but. slowly but surely it seems they're. stepping up their game. the Ukraine is actually reaching a point. where they can reach Moscow and that's. when the strike on the Kremlin happens. right the strike that launched you on. this reporting journey in the first. place that's right and it was very clear. it wasn't a lucky shot because that same. month multiple drones hit Moscow and.

what are we talking about Christian in. terms of the numbers of these strikes. what does your reporting say. but where we saw like just like a. handful in late 2022 late last year. we've seen the amount of attacks double. in the past three months alone wow so. it's really increasing a lot like I. talked to one of these drone developers. and he sent me a video. and this video shows one of the drones. currently under production. and it has these very like significant.

sound like it's sometimes called like a. flowing lawnmower it's a very like a. kind of scary sound. I get that video and signal with the. comment this is gonna be the number one. hit track in Moscow this fall. foreign. yeah I mean that sound right it is. terrifying I mean I've been in Conflict.

zones where I've heard the sound of a. drone I didn't know what it was. immediately but I learned over time and. it's this. sound that makes you feel like you were. a tiny ant and there's a foot above you. about to crush you yeah and I think it's. a big part of why Ukraine is launching. these long-range drones into Russia. because indeed that sound imagine being. woken up in Moscow and you hear that. sound you're not sure what's going on it. happens again and again and again and. someone told me let them feel the war if.

you support the occupation and the. invasion of Ukraine you should not be. able to feel safe okay so it's scary it. might be rattling people in Russia but. is it meaningful militarily like has. this program claimed credit for. significant damages or killed anyone in. Russian territory so far it hasn't. killed anyone yet but I think we. shouldn't underestimate what those. drones have already done and could do in. the future because we have seen in.

piskov which is pretty far away from. Ukraine at a military Air Base they were. able to destroy two very expensive cargo. aircraft of the Russian Air Force and. damaged to others and besides hitting. military targets like that they've also. hit infrastructure like oil Depots oil. storage sites and this of course could. affect the Russian military logistically. when they're sending new troops into. Ukraine but besides that Russia also. needs to make decisions hey are we going.

to place our fancy air defense unit in. the suburbs of Moscow and replace it. from Ukraine and these are strategic. decisions Russia needs to make and that. could affect also the battlefield in. Ukraine of course oh interesting so we. have this fancy air defense stuff it's. in Ukraine now that's where we're. fighting the war but whoa maybe we need. to bring it to Russia which in itself. would be an acknowledgment that holy. moly something's going wrong right. absolutely because it is a hard choice.

for Russia probably to make right. because are you gonna defend your. Capital City including the house of. president and including a very important. military Air Base that clearly right now. don't have full protection from these. drones. or are you going to leave it in Ukraine. what I understand from talking with. sources in Ukraine's Military. Intelligence Agency this is indeed what. they're hoping to do Force Russia to. make hard decisions where to deploy.

their air defenses. and Christian what's the big picture. here like what do we think the ultimate. effect is I mean I remember our. colleague Mike Schwartz you know I. called him when I first started seeing. these drones and I said what's going on. here I mean is this important. and he said you know one thing is for. sure this war will not end until it. reaches Moscow. is that what we're looking at here. time will tell but I think it's such a.

new thing to see that these Ukrainian. drones are hitting Moscow hitting Moscow. now repeatedly and hitting military. targets repeatedly. and. with it seemingly only to increase we. may seem that there is more pressure on. Russian civilians but also on Russian. Elites that are still close to Putin. that will feel. worried like wait can it hit my house. would they target my house and I think.

instilling that fear May create some. change around people that are closer to. Putin. so you went to Ukraine you found this. nascent drone program that was largely. built from scratch and you watched as it. became more and more effective. and it's all based on this Ingenuity and. scrappiness that the ukrainians have. really by didn't of necessity right.

that's all they got. but of course that same scrappiness. comes with its own risk you know when a. program like this is cobbled together. totally ad hoc using private donations. individual donations funneled through. multiple channels things can get pretty. messy pretty quickly like you know maybe. the money stops flowing maybe people get. greedy. there's a lot that can go wrong. how do you see the program at this point. yeah I think there's these different.

kind of groups that are all building. different drones and they're even maybe. competing a little bit with each other. sometime there are two intelligence. agencies Ukraine we know the military. intelligence agency launches their drone. into Russia but now the internal. intelligence you also announced they. have a long-range drone so the. equivalent of the Ukrainian FBI is. developing its own program even though. the CIA already has one that hit Russia. right but then outside of the government. you also have these private individuals.

and companies they're also all trying to. develop their drones and sometimes it. went to a point that they don't really. even communicate with each other are not. really aware of each other what they're. doing and production needs to be rammed. up if they really want to continuously. hit Russia because Russia is adapting. each time one of those drones is downed. Russia can look at the technology inside. and say okay we need to make maybe. adaptations and our air defense here and. there so each time Ukraine needs to step.

up their game and they need to basically. have a larger capacity of these rounds. and the question will be are they able. to ramp up production like that and what. is that a question of. it's mostly it seems a question of money. [Music]. and right now most of that money is. coming from this hodgepodge group of. volunteer fundraisers. people that had little if anything to do.

with the military before the war started. social media influences Comics people. who had basically zero idea of what a. kamikaza drone was and now they're at. the center of this drone War. [Music]. after the break we talked to one of the. main figures behind Ukraine's emerging. drone program.

[Music]. hi uh hi all uh you hear me you you see. me hi I'm fine right yes okay so I'm. Maria nice to hi Maria nice to meet you. uh sorry he will be here like in a. couple of minutes like two minutes okay. he just went for I don't know some quick. call okay so uh we are now in our main.

office where all the meetings all the. like fundraising activities are. happening great a beautiful map of. Ukraine uh a small tour of our Museum oh. look at the Museum yeah this is called. Russian Corner what is it. um. all right he knows this guy right hi. guys hi nice to meet you. and a couple of minutes and uh will. start okay great great. okay.

my name is Sergei pratula I'm 42 years. I'm staying in cave right now and I'm an. owner of one of the biggest charity. foundation in Ukraine your colleague. Maria was just showing me around and she. showed me a corner where there were some. weapons collected there tell me about. that to show you a Russian Corner we. call him that's like a little Museum. that we have here in our office that's.

the place with a lot of trophies that. our military bring to our foundation. trophies like downed pieces of Russian. planes pieces of Russian Jets and. Russian helicopters will have some. devices from tanks uh like to say thank. you for help guys right so that's your. Russian corner. tell me what's on your T-shirt. um not sure that it's good idea to. answer your question because that means.

some bad words it's like we wish them to. die. Sergey let me go back for a minute where. did you grow up where was that what was. it like well I was born in Soviet Union. I grow up in 1980s in a small village in. the west parts of Ukraine and that was. time when we had no FM radio stations. when we had no YouTube we had no Spotify.

or something like that but that was time. when in Soviet Union was not popular to. speak Ukrainian language because that's. the language of Village People right it. was seen as not a very prestigious thing. fancy thing to be speaking Ukrainian. right Russian was the language everybody. should be speaking in Ukraine if you. wanted to build a good career you need. to speak Russian language so I'm. thankful to my grandma and my grandpa.

who teach me to read to write to count. and also to sing Ukrainian songs. and after that Soviet Union collapsed. when I was 10 years old. I started to be a student in 1997 in. turnopiel and I started to work on radio. station when I was 17 years old that was. what I loved.

so much. [Applause]. and after that we had orange revolution. in cave in our Capital hundreds of. thousands of pro-democracy ukrainians in. the streets today protested against the. results of the presidential election and. I moved to Capital on this revolution. [Applause]. that was time that I loved because many. people start to speak Ukrainian you know.

and they start to love this city more. and more. [Music]. and I find some friends here and they. invite me to work on a big TV channel. and I start to be to be presenter of. Morning Show on TV show. [Music]. s.

what was that TV show called wake up. appropriately named yep. that was my time of rising when. everybody in Ukraine starts to know who. I am because I was those guys who helped. them to wake up every day. and who told them that you are the best. people in the world and I wish you good. luck. but. I was a TV presenter in dozens of.

different shows like maybe you have also. in the United States we call it Battle. of success. I was one of most popular Ukrainian. speaking TV hosts in time when mostly. managers on TV channels they were. looking for Russian speaking presenters. and that's why I create my own comedy.

show variata show. [Applause]. that was first 100 Ukrainian speaking. comedy show in Ukraine. and my son when he was maybe six years. old. he asked me once Dad do you have some. superpower. because he was a fan of Iron Man. and I start to understand that now is a. serious situation I don't want to.

disappoint my son. and I said to my son I have a superpower. and I want to show you my superpower. and I take my son with me to all the. city where I have my show with my. colleagues and I told my son look what. do you see he said many people I said. yes it's more than thousand people and. they all are different men women young.

old Rich poor with good education. without education some of them drive. cars some of them take bus to be on our. show but now I want to show you my. superpower. and I made some jokes and one thousand. different people start to laughing in. one moment. and I just turned my head to my son and.

ask him so do you understand which. superpower I have and he was so. impressed that his father can do some. magic with thousands of different people. I can do in one moment all together. but it was enough for me that I'm also a. cool man like Iron Man.

yep yep I tried my best for my kids. they are also big motivation for me to. do my job here in our foundation better. every day because uh I really miss them. and I want them to come back to Cave to. our apartment where I feel myself. absolutely broken because I'm alone. where are they now Sergey. in more safety Place. uh in a more safe place.

yeah and also I understand that our. foundation or work that we do here to. support our military that is makes Uh. Russian secret Services also not happy. right interested in your location and. your foundation right yes and that's why. it's also about to protect my kids. because it's really dangerous for them. to stay with me in cave. Sergey tell me about Russia and your.

relationship with Russia one year and a. half ago when Russia started fusuke. equation I shoot the video. [Music]. where I called to Russian TV stars pop. stars because I know dozens and dozens. of them by myself. I said please you have millions and. millions followers in your social media.

you have dozens millions of people of. your audience who love you and who trust. you and your army killing your audience. in Ukraine people who bring you money. and people who applaud you on your shows. and if you will call your people to stop. this invasionally. [Music]. but no one said stop this war.

hmm. and what did you make of that. just forget about them and start to do. my job what I can do better. I like to unite people. to try to organize people with some. ground finding campaigns to raise money. and to help destroy Russian troops and. the motto of our foundation is. Invincible when United. so you set up a foundation can you tell. me about the moment that you started.

raising money for the drones. okay so that was situation in October. last year my wife visited me in cave and. in the window of our Apartments she just. watched like Russian missile destroyed. house to hundreds meters from our home. and she was afraid and we run to the. bomb shelter and I was sitting there and.

I read in Facebook and in Twitter. thousands and thousands ukrainians they. were in fury because Russia attacked. Ukraine with dozens and dozens missiles. that was terrible day in our history and. people were so angry with this Russian. attack. what were you feeling. uh.

that's a hard question because uh. uh many different things you think. during uh missiles destroyed your city. because uh. one missile was exactly a few minutes. from kindergarten where my daughter was. God bless not at this moment but she. will never visit this kindergarten is. destroyed so that's yeah that's some. some emotions like of course you're.

afraid because I want to be sincere with. you it's really it's really bad. emotional when you understand the next. missile can can kill you and your wife. and of course I was angry with myself. because. you can do nothing. you have no power to protect your your. city your family yes and and your angry. also with uh all our partners from.

abroad because they are so slowly with. the air defense systems. and our partners support us and we're. really thankful for all help that we. have and thanks for all thanks apcs guns. everything else artery systems but it's. not enough because we have a war with. Russia. [Music]. so after that.

you're trying to find some some way how. to what you can do at this moment. [Music]. so we start ground funding campaign and. how did you do it was it just something. you put on Facebook or what was it. Facebook Instagram Twitter Youtube. and we rise a little bit less 10 million. USD in one day you raised 10 million US.

dollars in one day a little bit less. maybe 9.6 and we call this campaign 40. range for Revenge yes. we tell people that we will find some. way have to Revenge. and that's why we choose drones with. long range. and we bought big uavs Kamikaze also.

there's like one-way ticket to Russians. did you have any previous experience. with drones Sergey anything. in your normal civilian life that would. have brought you in contact with them of. course not of course no no no no no. sorry once once during my wedding there. was like cameraman but not with camera. but with drone so he filmed our wedding. party is drawn so that was only one my.

experience that was your experience yes. but if you want to survive you will. develop your skills no one here in my. Foundation had no such experience like. we start to have after full-scale. Invasion I have architectures here I. have guys from it business also I'm a TV. presenter I didn't know one year and a. half ago that I will write more than 113. million dollars in next one year in half. but that's a total war and we we need to.

do everything we can to support our. soldiers so yeah I guess I'm curious. what you think is the most important. role that long-range drones are playing. right now. like is the objective to destroy. buildings or even kill people. mostly drones don't kill people they. destroy some uh infrastructure buildings. or some military objects I heard maybe.

you heard also a few days ago in Russian. city school. four big Russian Jets were burning I. don't know how it happened maybe someone. smoke and uh not right place. but but some people told me that maybe. maybe it was happened because of drones. attack yes I myself Sergey wrote a news. headline about that in the news headline. I wrote was that drones struck in many.

regions of Russia overnight yeah hitting. and destroying four large aircraft in. the school of region so we said it was. underscoring the ukrainian's ability to. reach deep inside Russia with the war. effort deeper and deeper. it's really very important Russians to. start feel the same emotions like. ukrainians. if you will stay in Bob shelter every.

night with your kids maybe you will ask. some questions to your government. Maybe. so is part of the power of these. long-range drones that you're able to. take this war to Russia and possibly. awaken them to this war as you were. unsuccessfully trying to do when you. were trying to appeal to Russian. celebrities. to send a message to Russian societies. that two can play this game.

have you seen any signs that it's. working that the Thrones are breaking. through to Russians in this way. uh yes of course we are searching. Russian Media or telegram channels and. we find information that everything. everything work. everything work meaning the drones that. you funded hit their targets. yes ma'am. the drones that hit in school for those.

the drones that you funded I didn't tell. you nothing about scoff and about our. drones. but just believe me that I'm happy how. our military use our drones that we. bought after current founding campaign. for Revenge. [Music]. look I'm a citizen of Ukraine I want to. live in a better country I want to come. back to my previous life I want my.

family back to Ukraine I want my people. stop dying with this war that's why that. not my choice that's my. duty to do everything that I can do till. the Victory Day and I will do it. people will fight this Unity is still. strong that's ukrainian's super power to.

organize ourselves. and we will never forget and never. forgive. Ukraine's President Vladimir zielinski. arrives in the United States today his. second trip since Russia invaded last. year he will attend the U.N general. assembly in New York and then will.

travel to Washington where he will meet. with Congressional leaders and with. President Biden to lobby for military. aid. [Music]. we'll be right back. here's what else you should know today. on Monday Canadian Prime Minister Justin.

Trudeau said that quote agents of the. government of India carried out the. killing of a Sikh Community leader in. British Columbia in June. the leader Hardeep Singh nijar a strong. supporter of an independent Sikh. Homeland was gunned down on June 18th. outside a Sikh Cultural Center. speaking in the House of Commons Trudeau. said that he raised India's involvement. directly with Indian Prime Minister. Narendra Modi at the group of 20 Summit. earlier this month he said the.

allegation was based on intelligence. gathered by the Canadian government. and five Americans who'd been imprisoned. in Iran were allowed to leave the. country on Monday after two years of. high-stakes negotiations. in exchange the United States agreed to. unfreeze 6 billion dollars in Iranian. oil revenue and to dismiss federal. charges against five Iranians accused of. violating U.S sanctions the announcement.

came as President Joe Biden and. president Ibrahim raisy of Iran were. scheduled to attend the annual UN. General Assembly meeting of world. leaders on Tuesday. [Music]. today's episode was produced by Lindsey. Garrison Mary Wilson and Claire. tennisketter it was edited by Liz. o'balen and Michael Benoit contains. original music by Marian Lozano Dan.

Powell and Rowan nimisto and was. engineered by Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and. Ben lansberg of wonderly. [Music]. [Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Sabrina. tavernici see you tomorrow. [Music].