Inside Trump’s Search for a Vice President

from New York Times I'm Michael babro. this is the. [Music]. daily the makeup of the 2024. presidential race has felt inevitable. from the start with one notable. exception Donald Trump's choice of a. running. mate today my colleague Mike Bender. examines the top contenders for the job. and What Choosing them would tell us.

about Trump himself in this. campaign it's Thursday June. [Music]. 13th Mike somehow this is your first. appearance on the show so welcome at. long last to the daily thank you for. having me it's my pleasure you have. spent the past few weeks trying to get. inside Donald Trump's search for a vice. president and what is so unusual about. this search is that we already know.

what Trump wanted in a vice president. from his 2016 campaign when he picked. Mike Pence and we know how badly that. all ended with Trump openly denouncing. Pence for not helping him overturn his. 2020 election loss and reportedly. endorsing calls for Pence's death his. hanging at the capital on January 6 so. with all of that behind us what is Trump. looking for this time. around yeah I mean the is very different.

from where he was at this time 8 years. ago 8 years ago he was a firsttime. candidate and he needed credibility with. the Evangelical Community I mean. remember Donald Trump is a thric married. Playboy from New York whose sex life was. splashed across the New York tabloids. adding Mike Pence to the ticket gave him. a lot of credibility with evangelicals. and with establishment Republicans Pence. was a governor of Indiana and had been a. a former Congressman he provided a sort.

of port of entry for these folks into. Trump World and settled a lot of them. down it's a very different calculous. this time around Trump believes voters. are going to make their decision based. on the top of the ticket not the running. mate based on Trump himself based on. Trump himself and the fact that we have. two incumbents effectively running. everyone who's going to vote in this. election has opinions formed about Biden. and Trump there's really no one that he. can add to the ticket that is going to. make a giant difference or going.

persuade people in a major way to come. on board and he's probably right about. that so in a way you're saying Trump's. search for number two is defined by what. it's not focused on which is he's not. trying to solve a political problem. through his vice presidential pick yeah. that's right he's not giving a lot of. value to a political upside of a. candidate there's a lot of cheddar early. on you remember about maybe adding a. woman to the ticket Trump has. hemorrhaged support from Suburban women. for 8 years right and there was a. thought that if he could find a strong.

woman in a governor's office or in. Congress to add to the ticket that she. could help persuade some of these folks. back to Trump's side but my reporting. here is that there were some women in. consideration at the very beginning. stages of this process but he hasn't. seriously considered a woman for this. job in quite a while now fascinating. Okay so we've been focused a lot Mike on. what Trump is not focused on in his VP. search let's turn to what he is putting. a lot of wait on as he searches for a.

number two well right now uh my. reporting is that the biggest Factor the. biggest through line through some of his. top tier candidates are folks I'm. calling Do no harm candidates what do. you mean by that the best example of. this is Christy gome and what not to do. Christy gome is the governor of South. Dakota she has long been a rising star. in the party she's joined Trump on the. campaign Trail several times very much. wanted this job but Governor Christy.

gome has had let's call it a tough time. lately with that story that just won't. go away her own it all came crashing. down a couple of months ago when she put. a book out it includes a bizarre story. about her shooting and killing her dog. detailing how she dragged her. 14-month-old dog Cricket out to her. gravel pit and shot it dead after. killing her dog she says she also killed. their goat what the hell was South. Dakota governor Christine gnome think. thinking this set off a firestorm in the.

media what a Charming anecdote to. include in a book who was her editor. where even Fox News hosts couldn't get. enough of this in your new book it's. called No Going Back you include a story. about shooting your dog and kept asking. her did the dog Story come up in a. conversation I talk to president Trump. all the time about the dog about a lot. of things and right now to explain. Cricket to explain the dog did you bring. up the dog with Trum.

this interview is ridiculous what you. were doing right now so you need to stop. it is okay it is right to her great. frustration and to the great frustration. of trump he was telling people that he. did not want to be out answering. questions about a vice presidential. candidate who shot their dog it even. became kind of Gallo's humor for him at. some point randomly in conversations he. would ask people well have you shot your. dog he would end conversations telling.

people make sure you don't shoot your. dog so this is an example of something. Trump does not want to deal with on the. campaign trail that probably goes for. just about any presidential candidate. but what is particularly important for. Trump right now is that his plate is. full of distractions he was just. convicted of 34 felonies in New York and. has a Litany of other legal problems. he's facing so the most important thing. for him right now is is a vice.

presidential candidate who is a. disciplined campaigner and can go out. there and not cause any more unwanted. distractions for his campaign all right. so besides do me no harm where else is. Trump putting his focus in a VP search. yeah the the eventual VP is going to. have to meet Trump's primee time reality. TV show version of being out of Central. Casting and what I mean by that in this. context is he wants someone who can go.

on television and defend him aily and. effectively the other thing that's very. interesting to me is that the former. president gives outsized importance to. debate performance he believes that he. won the election in 2016 in large part. because of his own performance in the. debates against Hillary Clinton and for. that reason since then really he's felt. like debates can be determinative and. want someone who he feels comfortable. can on television and hold his own.

against kamla Harris a seasoned. politician a former prosecutor so. whoever Trump picks is going to have to. be able to hold his own in this sort of. Arena but it's always a fine line with. Trump they're going to have to perform. well be effective but not effective. enough where they start to approach. Trump's Spotlight H say more about that. yeah I mean this is a president who puts. a very high value on loyalty but it's a. very unique Twist on loyalty he has a.

very specific definition the sort of. first rule of proving loyalty to Trump. is not to overshadow him he doesn't want. someone out there who he feels like is. trying to leverage his political brand. Trump does not really want a successor. here a lot of presidential nominees will. pick someone who can help build the. party particularly in a second term the. attention naturally turns to the vice. president and who's coming next Trump.

has shown little interest in that so. while he wants someone who will be a. great presence on TV and on the campaign. trail that running mate better be good. but not too good so in summary Trump's. VP search goes something like this I. don't really care if you win me a key. voting block don't cause me problems and. while I want you to be able to wow an. audience you can't wow them more than me.

that's absolutely right and based on. those principles his team has actually. put out a pretty extensive list of. Republicans who they are vetting for the. job right. now but my reporting is that this list. is a little wider than the folks who. Trump is really. considering his team is trying to build. drama and suspense and also give him. some room to change his mind before he. officially makes his pick at the. Republican National Convention in.

July but at this moment based on my. reporting there are three people who. Trump is seriously considering for his. next vice. president we'll be right back.

so Mike tell us about these top three. contenders at this moment for Trump's. vice presidential slot and how Trump is. thinking about each of them yeah one we. can start with is the senator from Ohio. JD Vance despite all outward appearances. I'm a cultural Outsider I didn't come. from the elites I didn't most listeners. will probably remember JD Vance as the. guy who burst onto the national scene. with a book about his time growing up up.

in Ohio I came from a Southern Ohio. steel town and it's a town that's really. struggling in a lot of ways a ways that. are indicative of the broader struggles. of America's working class that sort of. explained the Forgotten man and woman in. America right at the time that Trump was. leveraging that idea to become president. of the United States right here with me. is JD Vance author of hillbilly elegy JD. has been unlocked in the Mysteries to.

Donald Trump's appeal JD Vance went on a. national book tour he was on television. on podcasts talking about his book. Donald Trump if nothing else is. relatable to the average workingclass. American because he speaks off the cuff. even if you know half of the things that. he says don't make any sense or a. quarter of the things that he says are. offensive there's something also talking. pretty negatively about Donald Trump. right I can't stomach Trump I think that. he's noxious and is leading the white.

working class to a very dark place and. ultimately I mean he was really scathing. in how he depicted Donald Trump as a. effectively a con artist who was taking. advantage of the people that he was. writing about to sort of fuel his. political. rise look I wasn't a big Trump guy in. 2016 but I think he did a good job I. think those until he changed his mind on. Trump that's why I supported him in 2020. and I think the recognition that I. changed my mind is one of the reasons. why the president came and endorsed me.

he was help and that comes a few years. later when Vance decides to run for. Senate uh in 2022 I actually aligned uh. with the America first movement on the. core issues by then he had come you know. 180° on Trump trump was right that we. need to make things in this country. again so that we're self-sufficient. so this works for Vance he wins Trump's. endorsement beats a pretty crowded field. for the Republican nomination in Ohio. and wins election in 2022 which if you.

remember it was a pretty tough year for. Trump endorsements right a lot of trump. picks in big States lost and JD Vance. was sort of the crown jewel of that. election for the former. president so a rather convenient. transformation from Trump critic to. Trump fan results in JD Vance winning a. seat in the US Senate that's absolutely. right and he has become one of Trump's. fiercest defenders in the Senate support.

the president volunteer for him donate. for him and please for the love of God. vote for him in November because Jesse. and he's a constant presence on the. media circuit number one I I'm here for. the simple reason to show support for a. friend I think this trial is absolutely. ridiculous I think it's a sham. prosecution most recently he was in. Manhattan sitting with Trump in the. courtroom I think this is disgraceful I. don't care what you call Trump is. disgraceful is that what you're saying I. think this proceeding This legal.

proceeding is disgraceful and then. fighting for Trump defending him and. criticizing the prosecution in front of. the TV cameras afterward I don't care. what you call this but this is not the. America that I know and love why aren't. we talking about inflation wolf why. aren't we talking about Biden's wide. openen Southern border this entire trial. was cooked up to distract from Joe. Biden's fail with all respect this is. exactly what Trump wants in a vice. president Vance is maybe the best in. this top tier at defending Trump.

publicly he knows when to become a fire. breathing ideologue he knows when to. turn the temperature down and become. self-effacing and and sort of brush off. tough questions got it so he's. definitely got the very good on TV box. checked and as you said earlier in our. conversation that's just essential yeah. absolutely but I do think when it comes. to Senator Vance some of these strengths. could be risks for him when it comes to. making Trump's ticket he is very vicious.

and he is very young if a vice president. Vance is sworn in next year there will. be immediate speculation about his. potential running in 2028 as a president. ah so you're saying he runs the risk of. overshadowing trump which is a cardinal. sin in Trump's book yeah that's right. and right now in my reporting that's a. strike against Vance when it comes to VP. contention okay so Mike who's next on. the list of Trump's top three contenders.

at the moment next on the list is. someone you remember well Michael. Senator Marco Rubio from Florida right. yeah you you were pretty key in covering. his 2016 campaign right and like Vance. Mike he has been on a very long journey. of mocking and then trying to reconcile. with. Trump that's exactly right I mean Rubio. was the rising star of the Republican. Party pre-trump the son of Cuban. immigrants with a very powerful story of.

his own bootstraps rise and was seen as. a potential front runner for the. Republican nomination until Trump showed. up on the scene he doesn't sweat cuz his. pores are clogged from the spray tan. that he uses and Rubio's response to. Trump was pretty wild Donald is not. going to make America great he's going. to make America. orange what Rubio did was basically Tred. to match Trump with schoolyard taunts. then he asked for a ful length mirror I. don't know why cuz the podium goes up to.

here but he wanted a full length. mirror maybe to make sure his pants. weren't wet I don't know then he went. after Trump on the debate stage if he. builds the wall the way he buil Trump. Towers he'll be using illegal immigrant. labor to do. it you know went after his personal life. as you know the three divorces well I. don't know anything about bankrupting. four companies. bankrupt his multiple bankruptcies. and in pretty colorful language so I'm.

looking at Little Marco and I say man. there's something happening with him. Trump returned fire even more so and. really just demolished Rubio in. aggressively personal terms and I see. him starting to sweat like I have never. seen anything like it said how much he. was sweating on the stage thank God he. has really large ears the biggest ears. I've ever. seen made fun of his ears years. portrayed him as a lightweight who.

shouldn't be president couldn't go. toe-to-toe with any other foreign. leaders and really set him back. politically you know I called him a. lightweight I said at one point he was a. lightweight and I don't mean to be. insulting but I do describe people. somehow. well I mean suffice it to say by the end. of the 2016 race the concept that there. could ever be a trump Rubio ticket was. completely.

unfathomable yeah exactly but what a lot. of people don't realize is that Rubio. really repaired that relationship with. Trump Rubio won more votes in his Senate. race in Florida than Trump did for. president in Florida and that was oddly. important to Trump he brought that up. repeatedly Trump likes winners right and. Rubio had won more votes than him so. there must be he must have missed. something he invited Rubio over to the. White House early on is sort of a charm. offensive with Rubio and the next few. years Rubio really did become a behind.

the scenes close adviser for Trump on. foreign policy and some other areas and. now heading into. 2024 Trump trusts him views him as a. valuable Ally and maybe even more than. that as a pretty effective attack dog. right now with Joe Biden in the White. House our adversaries are going to. conclude that there are things they can. get away with and they can do cuz this. White House Is Not Strong they're not. prepared they're not even competent and. I fear what that means this's a big big. problem Rubio has gotten very aggressive.

on television going after the Biden. Administration and really the president. himself if we have another four years of. Joe Biden I don't know what this country. is going to look like but none of us are. going to be happy about it right clearly. no accident because he knows he's in. contention for the VP spot absolutely. just to put a fine point on it you would. say yes if you were asked to service his. Vice Presidential nominee that would be. presumptuous for me I think anyone who's. offered that job to serve this country. in the second highest office assuming.

everything else in your life makes sense. at that moment I why would if you're if. you're interested in serving the country. it's an incredible place to serve but. we're getting way ahead of our so Rubio. clearly checks off a ton of boxes TV. ready loyal attack dog doesn't seem to. do any harm to the ticket I'm guessing. here he's meaningfully older than Vance. any weaknesses we should make sure to. touch on when it comes to Rubio yeah the. risks for r Rubio are kind of. counterintuitive here the big thing is.

that Trump isn't sure he really wants. the job he has not sat with Trump in the. courtroom as others have he hasn't. become a fixture at the former. president's rallies he's not turned. himself into furniture at Marl Lago like. other Republicans this sort of idea that. he wants to show Trump he wants the job. but not too badly it's a strategy with a. clear logic here I mean again we talked. about protection of Trump's spotlight. but I'm told my reporting is that the.

strategy has kind of confused Trump I. talked to someone who sat with Trump the. other day and Trump asked him Point. Blank does Rubio even want the job. that's not a good look for the Florida. Senator fasinating so the flip side of. don't overshadow me is make sure that I. feel a sufficient amount of your love. and Rubio so far hasn't shown Trump. enough love that's exactly right okay I. think that brings us now to the third of. these contest. and probably the least known this is.

Doug bergham the governor of North. Dakota who would be if he joins a ticket. and wins election the first vice. president from the great state of North. Dakota so who's Doug. buram who is Doug bergham Doug bergham. is a kid that grew up in a small town. Arthur North Dakota 300 people the. streets weren't even paved I mean beram. has amassed his own fortune saw my first. computer and I said wow that's going to. change the world. by repeatedly building billion doll.

companies including one he sold to. Microsoft had this fantastic run as a. public company got acquired by Microsoft. and then I joined that team and helped. build Microsoft and he's close friends. with the billionaire former executive of. Microsoft and has a number of other. wealthy Rich Tech investors on speed. dial this is important for Trump because. he likes having connections to rich. people who serve as sort of a validation. for for Trump if you're serving for me.

that enhances Trump's brand and Trump's. selfworth working with President Trump. as a governor was like having a. beautiful Breeze at your back I guess I. can explain it this way Trump likes to. collect wealthy white men wealthy white. businessmen like they were porcelain. dowels who are we going to send back to. the White House. Trump that's fantastic. [Music]. okay well besides this rich white.

porcelain Doge that Trump likes what is. it about bergam that has drawn Trump's. interest in him as a potential VP yeah. berham is in his mid-60s which makes him. closer to being a generational peer to. Trump who was in his late 70s and Trump. likes generational peers uh remember in. 2017 the average age of his cabinet was. 62 years old which was one of the oldest. of any recent president and Trump also. likes bergo Independence not just.

financially but politically he. self-funded his own campaign for. governor in 2016 he was a Outsider. candidate and won that race and his. re-election Without Really any help from. Trump or Trump's political machine and. that's important to Trump when it comes. to who he can trust behind the scenes to. tell him what he needs to know he. doesn't want someone to do that publicly. he doesn't want to be embarrassed he. doesn't want to be overshadowed but. behind the scenes he does want some back. and forth he does want to hear different.

points of view and when you agree with. Trump behind the scenes he wants to know. that it's not because you're afraid that. he might turn against you other folks. who owe their entire political rise to. Trump might have trouble connecting with. the former president on that level uh. the folks I've talked to who've been in. the room with bergham and Trump have. told me they have a very easy Dynamic. there's a very clear respect on both. sides and these guys seem to like each. other hm so this is kind of fascinating.

like it sounds like one of Bam's biggest. advantages is that his political career. has been pretty independent of trump he. didn't start out as a trump critic who. then needed to bend the knee for his own. political survival in the same way that. both Vance and Rubio did instead bergam. made his way in politics by his own. accord he doesn't really owe Trump much. of anything and to Trump that might mean. bergam more willing to be candid with.

him albeit behind the scenes not. publicly and on top of all that he's. older and therefore less of a threat to. Trump's Spotlight less at risk of. overshadowing him yeah that's exactly. right I would sum up Bam's advantages as. saying he's probably in this group the. safest pick for Trump but in a weird way. he's also the biggest wild card and what. mean by that is he is relatively.

untested on the national stage even. though he did run for president last. year but that was really a short-lived. campaign if you blinked you missed it. and he's not really been on television. as much as Rubio and Vance in recent. years and he is uh you know to put it. generously not known for thrilling. Applause lines on the campaign Trail and. he has uh almost eight years in the. governor's office in a very very. Republican state with some very.

conservative policies that will get dug. into by the national media the big one I. think is is a hugely restrictive. abortion law he signed last year as. Governor Trump is responsible for. overturning Rover suede right but he. sees abortion as a real tough issue for. republicans and having a running mate. who signed a law that bans abortions. after 6 weeks including no exceptions. for rape or incest after 6 weeks is. going to be a tough one for the ticket. in the general election so Burham does a.

lot of the things that Trump wants into. VP but the problem would seem to be that. he might do some harm to the ticket and. Trump has that Do no harm role that's. absolutely right when it comes to. Trump's decision the former president. has a lot of things to think. about Mike we've been spending all this. time talking about what Trump wants in. his VP in 2024 and how these three. potential contenders fit into that but. what we haven't talked about to Circle.

back to the beginning and what Trump did. to Mike Pence is what Trump may ask of. these three guys if they were to become. his VP and how comfortable these three. contenders might be in doing those. things I mean everything our colleagues. have been reporting so far shows that a. second Trump term would involve him. testing the bounds of the Constitution. he's going to seek more power than Ed. president has in modern times he's.

talked about firing anyone in the. government bureaucracy who challenges. him he's talked about turning the. Department of Justice into a tool for. revenge against his political. foes what does it say about these VP. contenders that they want to be the. number two in that kind of an. Administration to orbit Trump is to put. at risk your own personal dignity and. all of these folks are very smart people.

who understand that they know that. they're going to be put in some very. precarious positions and they're going. to have to shift their own thinking when. it comes to politics personal pride and. maybe even their legal interpretations. of the Constitution right I think about. how many people Mike in Trump's orbit. have been charged with a crime for what. they did for example around January 6th. exactly I mean there are very few people. who have put themselves in service of.

trump and have emerged for the. better all of these top three contenders. have been on their own long journey. inside the Republican party to get to. where they are now and to join Trump's. ticket is really an acknowledgement that. the old ways of thinking about the. Republican party and republicanism and. conservativism are over and that Trump.

has won and the reward for that. acquiescence is potentially a spot as. the number two Republican in the country. and possibly next year the number two. position in the most powerful government. in the. world well Mike thank you very much we. appreciate it thank you so much. [Music]. we'll be right.

back here's what else you need to know. today on Wednesday Southern Baptists. voted to oppose the use of invitro. fertilization it was an indication that. ordinary evangelicals are increasingly. open to arguments that equate embryos. with human life and that fetal. personhood may be the next front for the. the anti-abortion movement the.

resolution against IVF adopted at the. southern baptist annual meeting is. notable because fertility treatments are. widely used by. evangelicals and officials at the. Federal Reserve said they would make a. single cut to interest rates this year. suggesting that they are in no hurry to. lower historically High borrowing costs. the FED continues to believe that High. interest rates which remain above 5% are.

the best weapon against inflation. because they slow spending by both. consumers and. businesses today's episode was produced. by Rob zipco Stella tan and Carlos PRI. with help from Jessica Chung and Nina. Feldman it was edited by Rachel quer. contains original music by Marian Lozano. and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and.

Ben lansburg of. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael. Boro see you tomorrow. [Music].