ICE Ramps Back Up, With Deadly Results

From The New York [music] Times, I'm. Rachel Abrams and this is The Daily. >> [music]. >> Two fatal shootings by federal. immigration agents in Texas and in Maine. have once again put a spotlight on. [music] the Trump administration's. deportation tactics. Today, >> [music]. >> my colleague Hamed Aleaziz explains how. these killings signal a return to a more. aggressive form of immigration [music]. enforcement. One that can easily turn a.

routine moment like a traffic stop into. a deadly confrontation. >> [music]. >> It's Thursday, [music] July 16th. >> [music]. >> Hamed, in the six months since two. Americans were killed by federal agents. in Minnesota, the government's.

deportation crackdown has felt a little. bit quieter. Federal agents, of course, withdrew from cities. The protests that. we saw after Minnesota really died down. We stopped seeing these gruesome. confrontations between law enforcement. and civilians that people have been. capturing on video. And so, all of this. put together, I think, made these two. recent shootings in Houston and then in. Maine. feel, at least to some people, like they. almost came out of nowhere. >> [snorts]. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's a fair. assessment as far as the public's view.

because in the months after Minneapolis, arrest numbers dropped pretty. dramatically across the country. But. that kind of came to an end in late June. when suddenly, at least at ICE, there. was this sense that the White House. wanted more arrests, that the. enforcement it needed to go up. dramatically. >> Okay, we're going to talk about what has. led to all of that, but I just want to. talk about the two shootings first. We. are still learning the details of what. happened both in Maine and in Houston,

but can you just tell us Ahmed, what. [clears throat] do we know so far about. both of those incidents? >> Yes, so the first shooting was on July. 7th in Houston. And in that incident, ICE was looking for two individuals that. they wanted to come and arrest. >> Mhm. >> And as they're doing that surveillance, as they're looking for those two. individuals, they come across a van to. them that seemed suspicious. And in. fact, inside this van they believe. individual in the car resembled one of.

the targets that they were looking for. And so they start to look up the license. plate information of this van. And they. find that it's registered to somebody. who is undocumented. And so they decide. to go after the car. >> They're basically thinking, oh, even if. it's not the people we're looking for, maybe we could pick up another person. who's here illegally. >> Yeah, essentially, I mean, this is the. you're at a point now that you have. created this level of reasonable. suspicion that ICE officers need to.

pursue individuals. And that's at this. point really during this attempt to stop. this van where the narratives really. start to diverge, where the passengers. and the witnesses in this van say that. the van was not doing anything. dangerous. And where ICE says the van. was actually putting their officers in. danger, that it was being weaponized, that the officers essentially feared for. their safety and needed to use that.

lethal force. So that's at this point what we know, but we don't have a clear video of this. incident. >> But we do know, of course, that they. shot into the vehicle killing this. person in Houston. So, what do we know. about the victim at this point? >> Yeah, Lorenzo Salgado Araujo. He lived in the country for more more 30. years. He's undocumented. And he actually had a his own. construction crew. His brother was part. of it. His brother was in the van. And this story took off for many.

reasons, but one of them was. >> I want to tell you about my dad. >> Really this impassioned speech from his. son, Ronaldo. >> He wanted nothing else in life but to. provide for his wife and see his sons. become great people. >> Who just really spoke glowingly about. his father. >> I saw video posted on Facebook that he. had been shot. I recognized him immediately. >> [snorts]. >> Not from his appearance, but from his voice.

Crying for help. >> [snorts]. >> as he lay on the street. bleeding out. >> You could see in his tears how saddened. he was about what had happened to him. And something that they never expected. >> He did not deserve to be reduced to a. headline of Mexican man shot and killed. by ICE. [snorts]. He deserved to live a quiet life as. Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, a husband, a father, and a job creator. for dozens of men who also wanted the. American dream. >> That's right.

>> So, this story I think really resonated. for people because when this. administration talks about immigration. enforcement, they often talk about and. they highlight individuals who have. horrific criminal convictions and the. type of criminal histories that they. really want to put on display. But in. this case, this was a man going to work. >> As we mentioned, there were two. incidents. The second one was in Maine. Tell us about the details in that case. What do we know there?

>> So, on Monday in Biddeford, Maine, this really sleepy small town, ICE. agents were targeting an individual who. had a deportation order. And they decided to target somebody. going into a vehicle and they decided to. try to stop that vehicle. But, according to ICE, the vehicle tried. to flee the scene and it was during this. time they felt there was a fear. Actually, the way they put it was they. were fearing for public safety.

>> Mhm. >> And the ICE officer decided to shoot. into the vehicle. This man, Juan. Sebastian Guerrero, a 25-year-old. Colombian immigrant, was killed. >> And just to be clear, do we know for. certain whether he was or was not. somebody that ICE was looking for? >> They don't clearly say that in the. statement. Senator Angus King said that. he spoke with DHS Secretary Mark Wayne. Mullen, who told him that Mr. Guerrero.

was not the target of the ICE officers. So, if that is the case, it is very. similar in some ways to what happened in. Houston. >> Can you tell us what do we know about. him, Guerrero, the victim at this point? >> Mr. Guerrero, he lived in Biddeford. He. worked as a food delivery driver. He was. also a cleaner at a veterinary clinic. He has a 3-year-old child and his wife.

shared a photo of their family on social. media and she wrote that I will love you. all the days of my life. His father actually gave an interview. with a Colombian news outlets. In in it, he said that his son had work. authorization and was in the United. States legally. The Trump administration. though said that Mr. Guerrero had. illegally entered the country in 2023.

and was released into the United States. by the Biden administration. >> So, we don't necessarily have clarity. yet on his status. It sounds like. >> not have any clarity on that, yeah. >> What has the public reaction been to. these two cases that we've just talked. about? >> Yeah, I think there is a lot of anger. >> These agents have no business drawing. their guns. They aren't judge, jury, and.

executioner. He wasn't even the guy that. they were looking for. And so now an. innocent man is dead. >> People are asking for investigations. They're asking for accountability. >> We need the Maine Attorney General to. investigate. >> ask for a congressional hearing so that. we can have. >> As I was making my way through Biddeford. on Monday, there was a pretty large. protest outside of the office of Senator. Susan Collins. The local residents had signs, anti-ICE.

signs, surrounding that office just. hours after that shooting. And I think a lot of this stems from. public distrust of ICE, of DHS, of this. administration, and their narrative as. to what happened. We've seen incidents. before in which there is a explanation. of what happened, and video comes out. and ends up contradicting the facts.

presented by the government. I mean, we. can look to January when Alex Pretty was. shot by Border Patrol agents, and the. DHS Secretary at the time, Kirstjen. Nielsen, came out that same day and said. that Mr. Pretty was planning to harm the. agents, that he was brandishing his. weapon, and Americans actually saw that. video, and they saw that none of the. things that she was saying were. reflected in that video. So I think.

there is a lot of distrust of the. official narrative. >> I think there are probably a few things. about these incidents that remind people. of what happened back in Minneapolis. back in January. And as you described. though, since then the administration's. tactics have at the very least become. less visible. And so I wonder whether. the events of the last week represent. some kind of return to that earlier more. aggressive phase of enforcement or. whether the federal government has had. more of a presence in American cities.

this entire time than people perhaps. realized. >> Yeah, I mean if you go back to January. in Minneapolis, it really comes at a. time when Stephen Miller is pushing for. more arrests, more deportations. He's. put out this goal of 3,000 arrests a. day, a figure that ICE was never able to. reach. And they really went on a string. of targeting major American cities and. states, and Minneapolis became a major.

target after a series of stories about. the Somali community there. >> That's right. >> So thousands of DHS agents are there. They are trying to arrest as many people. as possible. You know, there are videos. of people with legal status being pulled. over. It seems like, you know, this is. chaotic. Two American citizens are shot. dead in the streets. And at the end of. all this, President Trump decides to.

quiet down the situation in Minneapolis. and he. puts his borders are Tom Homan in. charge. And ultimately the DHS agents. leave the state. Then DHS Secretary. Kirstjen Nielsen is ultimately fired and. in comes Mark Wayne Mullin, this senator. from Oklahoma who in his confirmation. hearing actually sets out this goal that. >> [snorts]. >> he wants to keep his agency out of the. headlines. He he wants them to be.

quieter than they have been and. enforcement after the time he takes over. really starts to drop. You start seeing. around a thousand arrests a day. >> Right, which is probably why this felt a. little bit less present to a lot of. people. >> Exactly. I mean it kind of in many ways. was a situation in which ICE really. tried to stay out of the public's view. >> [music].

>> But even though it seems like you know. things have quieted down, Stephen Miller. has continued to push for more numbers. He has always wanted more arrests, more. deportations. >> wanted to quiet things down. >> Exactly. And by June, [clears throat] Miller and. this administration. is in a position to where they can get. what they've always wanted. >> We'll be right back.

Amed, what happened in June that as you. said allowed Stephen Miller to once. again pursue his deportation strategy as. aggressively as he's been wanting to? >> [snorts]. >> You know, well we know that this. administration has really been making. this push to dramatically grow ICE for. the last year, but. >> [snorts]. >> June is really when we saw those efforts.

come to fruition. You'll remember that. DHS was funded with an extra $170. billion. by the big beautiful bill and a lot of. that going toward ICE allowing them to. hire these thousands of new officers, but the process of getting them out on. the street, that takes time. There's. training, there's all kinds of different. administrative tasks that are necessary. So by the time June rolled around, it. was almost a year since that hiring.

push, and they're in a position now. where they're able to, on their own, make this push for more enforcement make. it a reality. They have thousands of new officers to. send out into American streets to arrest. people and ramp their numbers up. And in. fact, in late June, there was this. idea within ICE, this perception within. ICE that 2,000 arrests a day, that that.

is the new goal, that that is the new, actually not even goal, expectation. >> So, there's a new quota, you're saying. And while it's lower than the original. quota that Stephen Miller set out. earlier on, it sounds like this 2,000. number is maybe a firmer expectation. Like, ICE never really met that 3,000 a. day quota, but the expectation now is. that 2,000 should be an achievable. number. >> Exactly. And in late June, in a period. of 5 days, they arrested more than. 10,000 people,

averaging more than 2,000 arrests a day. And one DHS official told me that that. was the highest 5-day stretch of arrests. by ICE during the Trump administration. I mean, this is really. unprecedented territory we're in. 10,000. people picked up by this agency in just. a 5-day swing. And I think there was a. sense at the time, you know, was this. just a minor blip? Was this just kind of. a momentary enforcement blitz? But we've. seen on several occasions after that.

5-day stretch, ICE again hitting that. 2,000 number. >> [music]. >> You know, I think Ahmed, for people. listening to this and hearing how ICE. has really grown its ranks, a natural. question is, well, how well-trained. could these people be? And did training. or a lack of training contribute to the. end results that we saw this past week. So, what do we know about that? >> Yeah, you know, as the administration, as ICE was trying to push out these.

thousands of new officers, they really. cut down on the days for these ICE. officers to go through their training. And in fact, there was a whistleblower, an individual who was a former ICE. lawyer, who came out and said that they. had cut, you know, more than 200 hours. of classes involving firearms training, use of force, lawful arrests, the limit. of their authority. And so, that raised.

a lot of questions about exactly what. these officers were being trained on and. whether or not they were really capable. of handling these really high-stress. situations. >> Sure. >> And I think what's happening now is that. >> [snorts]. >> as this agency and as the officers are. being pushed to do more, they're being. pushed to get that number of 2,000. arrests a day. In fact, ICE has ordered. their field offices to send out more.

officers every single day to ramp up. operations. What that means is you're. going to see more of these. confrontations, more of these situations where ICE is in. a they have a sense of urgency to get as. many arrests as possible. And what. they're being met with in many cases is. immigrant communities who are incredibly. fearful. of what's going to happen to them. You. know, they have seen the videos. They.

have seen the news of people being. deported to Africa, to detention in El. Salvador. And so, that tension is very. high. And so, these officers are in In cases. are running into situations where the. immigrants themselves, they want to flee. the situation. They do not want to be. arrested. They are terrified. And in. many ways, it's a recipe for disaster. >> Mhm. >> And on Tuesday morning, I reported on a.

case of a 28-year-old man who came. across ICE at a gas station in St. Augustine, Florida, and he ran away from. them. And he ran into the street and was. struck and killed by a truck. >> Mhm. >> These are the types of situations where. we've seen this before in California, people fleeing in panic to immigration. enforcement, and there being lethal. consequences. >> And so this is the kind of recipe for.

disaster that can make a routine. interaction, like a traffic stop, a. really combustible situation, like what. we saw happen in Houston and Maine. The public outcry over those shootings. has been mounting, and Hamed, I wonder. what the reaction from the. administration has been so far to the. reaction that we've seen from the. public. >> Yeah, it's been really interesting to. see the way they've made their argument. We. saw the administration pause vehicle.

pursuits, vehicle stops, except for, you. know, certain situations. And that. seemed to be kind of this moment where, you know, the administration was taking. a beat to evaluate what they were doing, and then move forward. But President. Trump on Truth Social on Wednesday. morning, he said not only was ICE doing. a great job, but that they should. continue to do the vehicle stops, that. there was no pause. So, you have a. situation in which perhaps the agencies.

are looking at it one way, and the. president is decided for them that they. should continue with their aggressive. approach. >> Right. I mean, just to read a couple. lines from the president's Truth Social. post, he said, "Quote, we cannot give up on one of ICE's most. important and effective crime-fighting. tools, the traffic stop. Once we do, we. are playing right into the criminals'. hands.". He went on to say in the same post, "Keep those crime stat records coming.". So, I think it seems pretty clear that.

the president is walking back any kind. of attempt to maybe moderate the tactics. that we saw over the past week being. deployed in Houston and in Maine. >> 100%. >> Both of these incidents right now, both. of these shootings are currently under. investigation. But, in the past, when. civilians have been shot by federal law. enforcement agents conducting these. kinds of immigration crackdowns, we did. not see indications from the. administration that they were very eager. to pursue thorough investigations. And I. sort of wonder what we know about these. investigations, whether they are being.

run any differently, and if you have any. indication at this point, Hamed, when. and what we may ultimately learn. >> Yeah, I mean, these types of. investigations typically, any type of. officer involved shooting, even at a. local level, it takes a long period of. time. A lot of resources go into. figuring out what happened with the. shooting, whether or not the officer was. in the right. And case in point, we can. look at the shootings of Alex Preddy and.

Renee Good in Minneapolis. You know, we. are 6 months out from those shootings. We don't have any indication when those. investigations will be concluded. So, I. think what we can expect is, in this. instance, like past instances, the DHS. Inspector General taking a long period. of time to come up with their analysis. and to finally decide what they. concluded on these shootings. The FBI is. also involved with the investigation,

but is primarily just involved with the. threat to the officer. So, The IG is the. one that is really directing this entire. investigation. >> Hamed, if it is true that more violent. interactions are basically all but. inevitable, do you think it's fair to assume that. the president has basically decided that. whatever the cost is of these stops of. reaching this quota, that that cost is. ultimately worth it to execute the. agenda that they have wanted to execute. when it comes to deportations?

>> Yeah, the first thing that I that comes. to mind is an interview that J.D. Vance. gave recently in which he said. that law enforcement and the work of law. enforcement, it's it's not a very pretty. process. And I think for this. administration, the thing that I look at. is. actions. I think actions matter. And. this administration, since these. shootings, they have not relented in. their push for more arrests. They have. gotten days in which they've arrested.

more than 2,000 people a day. They paused car stops for seems like a. matter of hours before President Trump. stepped in and said they needed to. continue. >> [music]. >> So, I think it's fair to say at this. point that this administration believes. that the mass deportation campaign, it. hovers above everything else, above the. protests, above the calls for. accountability, the calls to defund the. agency, the push to stop ICE from doing.

what it's doing. The goal is mass. deportation and nothing is going to. stand in that way. >> Hamed Aleaziz, thank you so much. >> [music]. >> Thank you for your time. >> The FBI is investigating whether there. were drugs in the van driven by Lorenzo. Salgado Areuho at the time that. immigration agents killed him in.

Houston. That's according to a search warrant. application reviewed by The New York. Times. There has been no indication. >> [music]. >> that agents pursuing the van that day. suspected that drugs were present. >> [music]. >> We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. >> To clarify, Mr. Blanche, do you believe it is the president's. right and [music] duty to order the. investigation or prosecution of his.

perceived enemies? Yes or no? >> I can't answer that yes or no. That was. >> The confirmation of President Trump's. choice for Attorney General, Todd. Blanche, remained uncertain on Wednesday. >> [music]. >> after his testimony before a key Senate. committee failed to win over crucial. Republicans, including John Cornyn of. Texas. >> [music]. >> But just to be clear, the President of. the United States has not agreed in. writing to delete the weaponization. fund, and there's no. >> In what was widely seen as a revealing.

slip-up, Blanche, Trump's former [music]. personal lawyer, suggested that he still. sees himself in that capacity. >> Are you and President Trump friends? >> I'm his lawyer, was his [music] lawyer, and now I'm the Deputy Attorney General. So, I met him as. >> [music]. >> And. in a vote on Wednesday, almost half of. House Democrats [music]. supported a measure to eliminate US aid. to Israel. The measure ultimately [music] failed,

but the vote reflected a rapid and. dramatic shift within the Democratic. Party. >> [music]. >> away from decades of unequivocal support. for the Jewish state. >> [music]. >> Today's episode was produced by Adrian. Hurst, >> [music]. >> Ricky Nvetsky, and Chris Benderav. It. was edited by Michael Benois and Rob. Zipko, [music] and contains music by. Marion Lozano and Dan Powell. Our theme. music is by Wonderly. [music]. This episode was engineered by Chris.

Wood. Special thanks to Zolan Kanno Youngs and. Caitlyn Rothman. >> [music]. >> That's it for The Daily. [music] I'm. Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.