How to Bet on (Literally) Anything

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie. Kitroof. This is the daily. [music]. Seemingly overnight, America has seen an. explosion of new betting platforms. [music]. that have radically expanded the. universe of gambling. They're called. [music] prediction markets. They let you. bet on all kinds of things like, will. the US attack Iran? What specific. [music] words will the president say?

And who will be at Taylor Swift's. wedding? Today, my [music] colleague David Yaffy. Bellan explains how these platforms. became so widespread so fast and how. betting on everything [music] could. change the way we live. [music]. It's Wednesday, [music] February 4th.

>> David, it's wonderful to have you here. in studio. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> So, we are coming to you because you. cover crypto, which can often lead you. to the nichest corners of the internet. I kind of think of you as having a. fringe capitalism beat. Is that fair? >> That sounds about right. >> Okay. and you've been looking into these. prediction markets, which I have a. million questions about. But before we. get into those questions, I want you to. first just lay out for people who don't.

know these things, what are they? What. are these markets? At a really high. level, a prediction market is a platform. where you can bet on pretty much. everything. Most people are familiar. with sports betting, even the sort of. advanced sports betting that we get. these days where you're betting on like. whether a player will make a free throw. Prediction markets expand that idea into. all corners of politics and culture. You. can bet on whether Trump will win the. election. You can bet on the date of. Taylor Swift's wedding. You can even bet.

on whether the Supreme Leader of Iran. will make it to the end of the month. So, what it's done is sort of expanded. that kind of gambling mentality to all. sorts of parts of our daily existence. >> The idea is betting on everything. everywhere all at once. >> Exactly. And now you've got people, especially young people, logging onto. their phones the same way they might use. Tik Tok or Instagram and placing bets on. on elections, on pop culture, really on. everything. These platforms have the.

potential to really change the way that. people interact with the world, the way. they think about the world. You know, everything now has a price. >> Everything can be communicated in terms. of the odds that it will happen or it. won't happen. And I think we're already. seeing signs that that's sort of. altering reality for people, >> right? And it does feel that this stuff. has kind of come out of nowhere. Am I. right to think that these markets went. from being quite marginal to suddenly.

being at the forefront of a lot of. cultural and political events? >> To some extent, that's right. Go back. even 2 or 3 years ago and no one was. really talking about prediction markets. But if you zoom out a little further, what's happening now is really the. culmination of a trend that started back. in 2018. >> H. >> a US Supreme Court ruling today has. opened the door to a dramatic expansion. of legal sports betting. >> That's when the Supreme Court overturned. a US law that had effectively banned.

most sports betting in the US. Once that. law was ruled unconstitutional, we saw a. sort of avalanche of gambling. The. gaming industry is calling this a. groundbreaking decision that will. revolutionize the gambling business. [music]. >> Right. This was a huge moment. >> Yeah, it was enormous. >> Also, DraftKings announcing that it will. enter the legal betting atmosphere. throughout states that choose to. legalize it. So, we're still. >> sports gambling companies across the. country [music] went state by state. getting permission to offer their.

services and suddenly people could. gamble from their phones. And this was a. huge transformation in the US. I mean in. other countries there's sort of always. been this type of gambling but it wasn't. really possible in the US. It was. something you had to do in a clandestine. [music] way and suddenly it was all. happening out in the open and the. marketing was enormous. You couldn't. avoid it. [music]. >> Okay. So that SCOTS decision mostly. affected sports betting it sounds like. What did it mean then for prediction. markets? On some level, it's not.

directly related because legally this. decision didn't have anything to do with. prediction markets, but it created this. cultural moment where suddenly gambling. betting was totally accepted in the US. It had sort of injected itself into the. American consciousness in a way that had. never happened before. And it was in. that context that a young entrepreneur. named Shane Copelan started a company. called Poly Market which has become one. of the leaders in this area.

>> Okay. So tell me the story of Copelan. founding this company. What's his idea. for it in the beginning? >> Copelan's this young entrepreneur. He. spends one semester at NYU before. dropping out. And wow, >> he has this super techy background. He. was really interested in. cryptocurrencies. He had kind of a nerdy. fascination with markets from a pretty. young age and the idea he had for poly. market was actually quite high-minded. It came in 2020 just a few months into. the co pandemic. What really was the the.

tipping point was during corona virus. there was so many different opinions and. so many forecasts that said entirely. different things. It was like. >> it was a time when a lot of information. was swirling around. There was. fluctuating case numbers, emerging. variance of the virus, [music] and a lot. of people felt like it was hard to make. sense of the confusing swirl of. statistics. [music]. >> And effectively, when you've got lots of. conflicting viewpoints and information. and opinions, a market is a way to. distill that information into one.

accurate [music]. fact or indicator or signal. >> So, in Copelan's mind, prediction. markets could help clarify this. confusion. It's not just a way for. people to gamble on everything. To him, Poly Market is about creating a new. source of information in the world. >> We are missionaries for [music]. the concepts of market-based journalism. and helping people make better decisions. by leveraging markets. >> And it's all based on an idea that has. long been studied in academia, discussed. in financial circles that crowdsourcing.

information could produce more accurate. projections about the future than what. any individual expert might come up. with. So the idea here is that the. source of truth and knowledge that. prediction markets are offering could. actually become a compliment or even a. replacement for things like traditional. media. >> You [music] have this public good that's. like a mecca of real time unbiased. information where you go on poly market. and you can just [music] see oh this is. what you know the odds of this happening. are in the future. And interesting. It.

sounds like he's thinking that these. could be more accurate sources of. information than traditional [music]. media in part because it's crowd. sourcing. >> It's crowdsourcing and it's also a. financial market. So people have skin in. the [music] game. >> People can debate each other and be. like, "Oh, you're wrong. This, this, that." But the way that those that. really dissipates is when you let people. put their money where their mouth is. And the idea is that when people have. money on the line, they tell the truth. or they're incentivized to research. their opinions as thoroughly as.

possible. And if you can pull all of. that together, [music]. then you've got a kind of amazing new. source of information. So Copelan is not. just thinking of turning the whole world. into some kind of virtual casino here. He's imagining this as a tool for. revealing things about the [music]. world, for gathering and disseminating. information. >> Absolutely.

>> Okay. At this point, I feel like we need. to understand exactly how this market. works, how the betting works. Can you. walk me through that? >> Yeah, this is a good question and a lot. of people don't fully understand it. Prediction markets are essentially a. series of yes or no questions. So if you. log on to the poly market website, you. will see questions like, will the. Iranian regime fall before 2027? And if you want to bet on that, you buy. what's known as an event contract.

>> An event contract. >> Yeah. And that's the yes option or the. no option on any of these questions. >> Okay. And the cost of those contracts of. a yes or of a no always fluctuates. between $0 and $1. And that price is. essentially a reflection of what the. market of betterers out there think is. going to happen. >> So if the yes option on the Iranian. regime falling is going for 20 cents, then that means there's about a 20%.

likelihood of the regime falling. It's. relatively cheap to buy that contract. because the universe of betters thinks. it's relatively unlikely that this will. happen. >> Exactly. And then the payout arrives. when the event either definitively. happens or doesn't happen. So if the. regime does fall and you bought that yes. contract at 20 and you correctly. predicted what would happen, then the. contract rises in value to $1 and you. get your payout. And because this.

resembles a kind of financial market, it. falls under a different type of. regulation than traditional sports. books. Sports books are regulated by the. states, their state laws governing. gambling. And the prediction markets. instead are regulated at the federal. level by a financial agency called the. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the CFTC. And the idea here is that the. CFTC should be protecting against abuses. in the realm of prediction markets.

Insider trading is an easy example of. that or market manipulation, things that. could threaten the integrity of a. financial market. >> But Copeland didn't go down that path. Initially, he didn't register poly. market with the CFTC. >> And that's sort of in line with the kind. of move fast and break things ethos of. the tech industry, >> right? the ask for forgiveness not. permission style of operating. >> Exactly. And Copelan was taking a. similar approach. But ultimately that.

got him into a lot of trouble. >> In 2022, the CFTC fined Poly Market $1.4. million. And as part of that legal. settlement, Copelan had to agree that. Poly Market wouldn't operate in the. United States. It's only open to foreign. users. And why does Copeland agree to. that? I mean, that sounds like a. potential death nail for a company like. this. >> Well, the legal landscape in the US was. complicated. And so, on some level, it.

might have seemed actually less risky to. sort of try its luck outside of the US. >> But the other element to this is that. there was a workaround. If someone. really wanted to use Poly Market from. inside the United States, they could. download a a VPN, a virtual private. network and essentially trick the. website into thinking that they were. logging on from another country, >> right? >> And this was extremely easy to do. I've. spoken to many people who did it. I've.

spoken to at least one former Poly. Market employee who told me that it was. sort of an open secret in the office. that people were doing this. And it. meant that this US ban was largely. theoretical. >> And at this point, do we know who's. actually using this thing? [snorts]. >> At this point, it's still primarily a. base of techsavvy people who are really. interested in these things in kind of a. nerdy way. >> Got it. >> To use Poly Market, you had to use. cryptocurrencies. So, you're already.

limiting yourself to a pool of people. who are comfortable transacting in. crypto. >> In your world. >> In my world. Yeah. And if you wanted to. use it in the US, you had to know how to. use a VPN. So it's not as if this was, you know, freely available to anyone who. might potentially be interested. >> And are people using it in the way that. Copelan imagined they would to kind of. create new sources of information to. illuminate things that maybe weren't. clear before there was the potential to. bet on them? >> They are starting to do that. It's.

gaining popularity. It's growing. It's. getting more attention in the media. And. it really comes to a head in 2024 as the. presidential election is heating up. And. it starts that summer after Joe Biden's. disastrous debate performance when. there's all kinds of speculation about. whether Biden will drop out of the race. And suddenly users of Poly Market start. betting on that. H at the time many. Democratic talking heads, pundits, the.

Biden administration, and of course. Biden himself were saying he's not going. to drop out, but the betting market. projected that he would drop out. So. when Biden eventually did, it felt like. a moment of vindication for poly market. and sort of a preview of what it might. offer to the world, right? Because I can. imagine Copeland sees this as proof of. concept. here you can come and get what. I presume Copeland views as an objective. sense of the odds. >> right and of course it's not like this.

was some question nobody was considering. or that there wasn't punditry about it. or people predicting that it would. happen but. >> poly market was a place where all of. that was sort of consolidated into one. number and you could kind of get a sense. of the way the wind was blowing. >> and that moment that question of whether. Biden will drop out then sets poly. market up for the next big question of. the 2024 race, which of course is who's. going to win the election? Will it be. Harris or will it be Trump? And it feels.

like a really long time ago now, but a. tied race, dead [music] heat among. likely voters. 47% Harris, 47% Trump. It. obviously doesn't get closer [music] to. that. And I want to show. >> back then it was a close race. The polls. showed that the two candidates were. essentially neck andneck. But the. projections on poly market started to. shift heavily in Trump's favor and. [music] obviously Trump did win. >> Big night for prediction markets and. calling President Trump elect as the.

winner at the polls. >> And it was another moment [music] of. vindication for Copeland's site. >> Another example for him at least of it. being a more reliable predictor than. traditional media sources, [music]. traditional polls. >> Exactly. As the saying of free markets. goes, a diverse group of market. participants like you see on poly market. is more accurate than any [music] given. expert. And what was especially fascinating. about this example is that we got kind. of a peak under the hood at how these.

projections came about. Now remember. that these projections are the result of. a financial market and a few large. trades can shift a financial market. significantly. And in this case, a. wealthy trader in France came forward. and said that he had made $30 million in. bets that Trump would win the election. And that this was based on his own. careful research. He'd actually. commissioned his own poll. >> Wow. >> Because he thought the traditional US. polling was misleading. And that just.

out of that conviction, he put all of. this money on Trump, which effectively. shifted the polyarket odds in Trump's. favor. And it was a profitable play. Uh. this guy made more than $85 million in. profits when Trump won the election. >> People started calling him the French. whale. >> Okay. So obviously a huge payout for. this one guy. What do you make of this. moment for the markets themselves? >> It had a huge impact. Suddenly these.

markets that had sort of operated on the. margins of the financial system getting. some notice but not a ton. Suddenly. everyone stands up and says, "Wow, huge. amounts of money are changing hands on. these things. We really have to take. them seriously.". >> And of course, Copelan is taking a. victory lap. But soon we learned that this entire. time as the company has been blowing up, becoming a big mainstream phenomenon. They've been under a federal criminal.

investigation. Wo. In fact, shortly. after the election, the FBI [music]. raids Copeland's home in New York City. they take his phone and it's all part of. an investigation into whether Poly. Market is illegally allowing US users to. access the platform. >> So at the same time, you've got this. moment of public vindication. You also. have this really fraught legal moment. where it's not clear whether the. platform can survive in the United. States. But there's a light at the end. of the tunnel for Copelan, which is that.

soon Trump is going to take office. [music] And as soon as he's in power, everything changes. [music]. We'll be right back. Okay. So, tell me what exactly changes. for these markets when Trump comes to. office. >> Since Trump's taken over, there's been a. complete change in attitude toward these. platforms. Copelan, whose house had only.

just been raided by the FBI, was invited. to a summit for tech executives at the. White House. Donald Trump Jr. became a. formal adviser to Poly Market. And most. importantly, the Justice Department. under Trump officially dropped this. investigation into Copelan. And this is. all happening in the context of a legal. battle involving one of Poly Market's. competitors, a company called Kelshi. that also offers its own prediction.

market, which around the time of the. election had won a big legal dispute. with the CFTC. >> So suddenly all these legal troubles. that had been hovering over the company. and the markets in general, they kind of. seem to disappear. >> Yeah. They vanish. So you've got this. culmination of a bunch of things. a kind. of pro business attitude brought by the. Trump administration, this legal victory. secured by Kelshi. And so, while it. didn't happen overnight, what that meant.

is that US-based users were now allowed. to use these platforms without a VPN. They become easily available to almost. anyone. [music]. I just found out about [music] Poly. Market. I started with um $10 and I'm up. like $100 something dollars. >> And that feeds into this larger cultural. shift. >> I'm a full-time Poly Market trader and a. lot of people don't understand how you. can make a full-time living on Poly.

Market. But let me explain. [music]. >> People are using these platforms more. and more. They're more available in the. United States. [music] The NHL just. became the first major US pro league to. strike licensing deals with prediction. market platforms Khi and Poly Market. >> Poly Market is going to become the. official prediction market partner for. the [music] UFC. >> Kelsey just announced a new partnership. this week with Coinbase. >> With every passing week comes some new. major partnership that brings them more. and more into [music] the mainstream.

>> Dow Jones is teaming up with Poly. Market. This is an exclusive partnership. and it'll make Poly Markets realtime. prediction data available across Dow. Jones platforms including the Wall. Street Journal. >> Big media organizations like CNN, CNBC, the Wall Street Journal have formal. partnerships with Kelshi and Poly Market. to use data from the sites in their news. [music] reports. >> Wow. >> Good evening and welcome to the 83rd. Golden Globes. The Golden Globes. featured Poly Market odds on the live.

broadcast. [music]. >> Here are the nominees for best podcast. Roll the tape. >> Right before the [music] best podcast. award was announced, Poly Market odds. were projected on the screen. >> And so, it's been this [music] huge kind. of cultural awakening toward these. things. It is kind of wild, David, to just. consider the trajectory that you've laid. out for us here. a year ago about these. markets were operating as a kind of. niche illegal backwater on the internet.

where you had to pay in crypto and have. a VPN to use them and now they're like. fully in the mainstream. Yeah, the scale. is enormous. There was about $12 billion. in trading volume on Poly Market and. Kelshi in December. That's a 400%. increase from the year before. >> Wow. And look, granted, that's still a. smaller user base than bets on. traditional sports books, but the level. of growth is pretty impressive. So, one.

recent example that got a lot of. attention is a betting market on poly. market about whether the president of. Venezuela, Nicholas Maduro, would be. removed from power. >> Right. I saw that. And some of the. betting on that Maduro question actually. raised new concerns about how these. platforms operate. Shortly before the US. operation in Venezuela to remove Maduro, an anonymous better on Poly Market. placed a large bet that Maduro would be.

removed from power. And then of course. he was and that trader made a big. profit. But the timing of that bet was. so good that it convinced a lot of. people that this trader must have had. some sort of advanced knowledge about. the operation. That this must have been. some kind of insider trading based on a. government leak or somebody in. government improperly using the site. Right? I remember when that happened. because I was following the Maduro news. very closely. people saw that bet and.

just did assume that this person who. made it was potentially close to the. White House and knew in advance it was. going to happen. Yeah. To be clear, there was no evidence of that. It was. never proven. But I think what we're. seeing here is something that we've. already seen in the realm of sports, which is when betting becomes super. mainstream, there's an aura of suspicion. that develops around everything. People. become convinced that things are rigged, that somebody's cheating to try to make. money. And now we're seeing that aura. extend to all sorts of other things in.

the real world outside of sports. >> And that's even bled into how the news. makers themselves are operating. There. was an incident last fall where Brian. Armstrong, the chief executive of. Coinbase, which is the largest crypto. company in the US, was doing an earnings. call. And at the same time, there was a. betting market on both Kel and Poly. Market, on what words he would utter. during that earnings call. Could I just. pause and say how amazing it is that. there were bets being made on what words. he would use in an earnings call?

>> Maybe someday there'll be bets on what. you'll say on the daily. I mean, who. knows? It's all sort of fair game at. this point. >> Anyway, at the end of this earnings. call, >> yeah, I hope we answer your question on. that. Um, I was a little distracted. because I was tracking the prediction. market about what Coinbase will say on. their next earnings call. And I just. want to. >> Armstrong says, "Oh, I've actually been. looking at the prediction markets." And. >> I just want to add here the words. Bitcoin, Ethereum, blockchain, staking, and web 3 to make sure we get those in.

before the end of the call. >> Then he just reels off a list of the. words that people were betting on. Wow. >> You know, influencing the market. directly. Now, Armstrong has said that. he personally wasn't betting on this. market. He didn't have a stake in what. he was going to say, but it's an. illustration of how easily these markets. could be manipulated. >> Right? This CEO says this didn't benefit. him, but it's pretty easy to imagine a. situation in which someone does actually. have a stake in an outcome that they can.

influence and colludes with people to. make a lot of money manipulating it. >> Yeah, it could happen. >> And we've obviously seen that in sports. betting. players colluding with betters. to change the outcome of games or of. things that happen within the games. In. sports betting cases, those lead often. to criminal charges, but in this case, is this kind of cheating actually. punished? So, the CFDC does have a rule. against insider trading, but this is.

such a new area that it hasn't really. been tested. So, it remains kind of a. big question mark. Koshi, which is Poly. Market's biggest competitor, has taken. the position that insider trading is bad. and that there are protections in place. on the platform to prevent it and to. report it. But there are other people in. the kind of prediction market sphere who. actually think insider trading is a good. thing. And that goes back to that kind. of high-minded goal behind some of these. products that they could become a source.

of truth in the world. >> Wait, tell me how cheating is part of. the high-mindedness. >> Sure. If what you want to do is produce. the best possible projection about what. will happen to Nicholas Maduro, then if. someone who has insider information. about that is placing bets and moving. the market, you end up with a much. better projection. >> But isn't there a case, David, for these. companies that operate these markets to. be worried about the business. implications of cheating? Like wouldn't. a Shane Copelan for example be concerned.

that people wouldn't want to participate. in poly market if they know that they. may be taking a sucker's bet on some of. these big events where the person on the. other side actually has good information. and they're just making a guess. Yeah, absolutely. And these companies have. taken a big reputational hit from some. of these incidents over the past few. months. But look, I've covered these. sorts of strange financial instruments. for a long time, and it's pretty amazing. what people will throw their money into.

You know, I've seen people buy useless. meme coins that are clearly part of a. pump and dump scheme, but they do it. anyway. People aren't always rational. with their money. You know, you're. always convinced that you're the one. person who has the inside scoop and can. figure out how to make money from. something that everybody else is losing. money on, >> right? You're not the sucker. >> Exactly. >> David, you made it clear that these. platforms have persuaded regulators that. what they're doing is not facilitating. gambling. They obviously call themselves.

prediction markets, not betting apps. But the reality is the way they work as. you've described it is much more like. gambling than the stock market. Right? These are quick fix kind of bets. Look, as I've started reporting on these. platforms, I've also started using them. with a small amount of the New York. Times's money. >> Oh, wow. How much? >> Uh, $20. >> Oh, wow. Generous. >> And any profits would would go to to.

charity, so it was a real philanthropic. opportunity for me. >> How'd you do? >> Um, I've already blown it. I'm down to. $10. >> Okay. You're no French whale. >> Exactly. But one thing I I I learned. from playing around with these platforms. a little bit is that it does feel like. gambling. You know, these platforms are. designed to kind of suck you in. You. know, they've got bright colors and you. know, you see numbers going up and down. and and it's exciting. And when you're. just playing around with a few dollars. of your company's money, that's totally. fine. But when you're potentially.

vulnerable to addiction and you're. spending money that you need for other. things on these platforms, there's a. real risk. And one thing we know about. this type of bedding is that it's. especially popular among young people, especially young men. It's kind of their. vice of choice these days. And so. whatever the long-term consequences of. this are, it's probably going to be felt. by that demographic, young people, >> right? If you have a gambling addiction, like you said, there's all these reasons.

why you're compelled to keep betting. And if you're just someone who finds. them fun, you're looking for. entertainment. You're looking for this. kind of world that's been created by. these markets, which as you've described. it to me, kind of turns reality into. something like a video game. >> Yeah. And the consequences of that are. starting to become clear. It it's. changing the stakes of reality for. people, changing the way they relate to. things that are happening in the world,

even things that are really important. and have human consequences. I mean, we. have seen prediction markets betting on. the LA wildfires on how quickly they. would be contained. >> There was betting on the war in Gaza, whether that situation would be. classified as a famine. >> And all those things are, you know, devastating for the real people in those. situations. But now you have a class of. internet speculator who's engaging with. them as potentially profitmaking.

opportunities. Yeah. I have to say it's. pretty dark to imagine people putting. money behind the notion, for example, that Gaza would be declared a famine or. that the fires in LA wouldn't be put out. and then potentially having a rooting. interest in that outcome. Like just to. put a fine point on it, it means. presumably you have people hoping that. these terrible things will happen. because they'll make money on it. >> A lot of people have that reaction and.

it's totally a real concern. I'll just. turn it around and try to kind of. capture what the companies would say to. this. Specifically on that example of. the LA wildfire, >> people have a real interest in knowing. when the fires would be contained. they're making decisions that affect. their lives based on that. And so if you. have a crowdsourced. verdict on that question, that could. potentially be really helpful. So on. some of these markets, you can still. make, you know, a version of that. high-minded argument that Copelan came.

into this industry with, but on some of. the others, it's definitely a lot. tougher to justify. And I guess then. even if you buy the premise that there's. utility in these bets, [gasps]. I think it's worth asking what the cost. of that is. Like what it does to us as a. society to suddenly be relating to the. real world and sometimes to real world. suffering in this kind of gamified way.

[snorts]. >> Yeah. And it has a sort of distancing. effect. Suddenly these things become. kind of abstract the same way the price. of a stock is sort of abstract to people. and what the long-term consequences of. that will be it's hard to say but it's. clear that this is a future that these. companies want. One of the co-founders. of Khi says that he wants to. financialize everything to turn every.

difference in opinion into a tradable. asset. It's the idea that any event in. the real world could be communicated in. financial terms as odds of this. happening, odds of that happening, even. if it's something as simple as the. weather. And to their founders, that's. really exciting. But to a lot of other. people, a world in which everything is. reduced to dollars and cents is sort of. depressing. >> To a lot of people, it sounds like. dystopia.

>> [music]. >> What's clear is that we're at the. beginning of this. The legal landscape. is still taking shape. There are some. challenges to prediction markets. happening in the states right now. Still, as someone who's covered this. sort of fringe financial stuff for a. long time, I can feel momentum behind. these markets. [music] There's a real. appetite for them culturally, and I. don't see that changing. People want to. bet on everything. [music].

Well, [music] David, thanks for coming. on the show. >> Thanks so much for having me. [music]. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. [music] President Trump signed a bill. that ended the partial government. shutdown on Tuesday, hours after it. passed the House. The legislation funds. much of the government for the rest of. the year except for the Department of.

Homeland Security, [music] which was. only funded until the end of next week. Democrats are insisting on new. restrictions for federal immigration. agents before extending that [music]. funding. And Trump now has 10 days to. strike a deal with them before it. expires. And House Republicans cancelled a vote. to hold Bill and Hillary [music] Clinton. in criminal contempt of Congress. The move came after the Clintons agreed. to [music] testify on camera in the. Jeffrey Epstein investigation and.

requested to be deposed at public. hearings. The agreement marked an end to a monthsl. long standoff [music]. between Republicans and the Clintons who. had resisted testifying [music] and. accused the GOP of carrying out a. political vendetta against them. >> I think it's a shame to be honest. I. always liked him. When asked about the. developments, [music] Trump expressed. empathy for the Clintons. >> I hate to see it in many ways. I hate to.

see it, but. >> they will appear on February 26th. [music] and 27th for depositions. Today's episode [music] was produced by. Ricky Nevetski, Nina Feldman, Claire. Tennis Getter, and Michelle Banja. It. was edited by Chris Hel and Devon. Taylor. contains music by Rowan Nemoto. and Alicia Eup and was engineered by. [music] Chris Wood.

That's it for the daily. I'm Natalie. Ketro. See you tomorrow.