How Tariffs Are Shaking Up the War on Fentanyl

from The New York Times I'm Michael. babbaro this is the. [Music]. daily for years even as fenel killed. Americans at an astonishing rate Mexico. has claimed that it was doing everything. it could to crack down on its. production this week president Trump. began using punishing new sheriffs to.

test that. claim today my colleague Mexico City. bureau chief Natalie KF on the. surprising result of Trump's. strategy it's Thursday March. [Music]. 6th it's weird being on the mic as a. guest but here we are.

um I don't know how to address you it's. so weird I know I was kind of wondering. how you were going to handle that how. about we just do it normal like okay. yeah hey Natalie hi Michael Natalie tell. us the story the kind of improbable. story of how you ended up inside an. illegal Sentinel lab in. Mexico so I'm the bureau chief here in. Mexico City and for for a really long.

time now I've been obsessed with the. fenyl problem obviously we know that in. the United States fenyl has just been a. Scourge for years it is killing tens of. thousands of Americans every year and. much of the fentanyl that ends up on the. street is made in Mexico Mexico is a. huge producer of fentanyl not just in. the US but worldwide and so I wanted to. get into that manufacturing operation. this is a synthetic opioid it's not.

grown in fields like heroin you know. cocaine these are natural drugs fenyl is. made from chemicals in labs and to. understand how these little pills end up. in the hands of Americans every single. day I found it extremely important to. see with my own eyes exactly how it's. made step by step right but of course. the challenge is getting inside I assume. the kind of places in Mexico that make. fentanyl don't offer tours so how did. you even to try to get in one yeah I.

mean it wasn't easy these are as you. said illegal labs this is happening. underground this is clandestine you know. how do you break into a network that is. run by cartels by powerful organizations. that are responsible for death and. destruction across the country where. should I add should you even try to make. it into a separate question no but I. mean you should you have to if you want. to understand this thing right and yes.

there are risks obviously but there's no. way to really get inside this business. without seeing it for yourself and so my. colleague Palina viegas and I started. making trips to caloa caloa is a state. in the northwest of Mexico it is a major. Hub of global fentanyl production and. it's the home base of one of the most. dangerous and Powerful criminal. organizations in the world the caloa. cartel we knew that we had to make. inroads in this state in order to get.

into a lab because these are the guys. that really dominate production. according to US law enforcement so we. started to go there we started reporting. we made contacts within the cartel we. did interviews we talked to leaders we. talked to Cooks meaning the people who. actually make the fenel and I mean there. were so many obstacles that kept. preventing us from getting into a lab we. had an inroad here it was shut down an. inroad there it had just been busted and. then finally in the middle of December. we got in so tell us about that so the.

original plan was to go into this lab in. the morning but there was a problem the. cooks who were inviting us to see the. process told us that they had just. gotten busted and so they needed to move. locations and they were going to put a. makeshift lab we didn't really know. where at that point but you know several. hours later then into the evening we. find out that it's going to be in the. center of the capital city where we are. kiaan so we drive to this location and.

it's a busy street I mean there's Taco. stands outside people are walking around. it's not you know a deserted area in the. middle of nowhere I mean it looked like. any other. house and as far as I could tell all the. people walking by had absolutely no idea. that inside what looked like a normal. house was an active fenal Lab at that. point w when we go in it's pitch black. and we immediately smell a very very.

intense smell it's like a a strong smell. of chemicals in our contexts that we're. working with say this is the textbook. smell of. Fentanyl and at the end of this pitch. black kind of hallway we see two 20-some. guys they introduce themselves they say. we can bring in one phone and one camera. but we agree that we're not going to. publish any recordings that have their. voices on them or photos that might. identify their faces and we start.

getting suited up at this point and what. that means is we're putting on hazmat. suits we're putting on our gas masks we. put on gloves we're preparing to come in. contact with a very toxic. substance we walked down the hall with. them and then we went. in Okay so we're in a fenal lab finally.

we made it into a kitchen we're watching. them. cook and they've just started the. beginning of the. process and I realized that we're in. what's a really basic kitchen I mean. there's not a lot of Advanced Equipment. here I'm watching the fumes come off two. pots that are on a regular kitchen stove. they have two pots on the stove that you. know are being heated with liid they.

have trays with chemicals on them they. have jugs with powder in them but apart. from that there isn't that much to it it. looks like any other kitchen and I saw. one of the cooks just blend it all. together using like a like a regular. hand blender Black and Decker that you. could just buy a. store and the pots look like any pots. that you would find in any Mexican. Kitchen they have beers that they're. clearly drinking while they do this at.

one point one of the cooks asks the. other one for this essential chemical. ingredient and the guy turns around to. the food pantry and pulls out a jug of. it that's just next to hot sauce and. other stuff that you might actually use. to make food. wow so right now he's adding blue to the. powder mix because it's going to be. pressed into those blue m30. pills and they're handling this blue. Powder that is close to to what would be.

pressed into a pill and you can just see. the blue seeping in this is the kind of. pill you see on American streets these. baby blue fenal pills they start showing. me like look we dye it blue if the. client wants it blue so it was just. remarkable how commonplace all of this. seem to. them so when you leave this lab what are. you thinking what has this unlocked for. you in your understanding of Mexico. as this Hub as you said earlier of.

fentanyl production I think the main. takeaway that I had leaving the lab was. this is a drug that is. extraordinarily easy to produce in. almost any conditions and once you get. the product the amount that you need to. make a lot of money if you're the Cel or. if you're a user to potentially kill you. is Tiny I mean the US government says.

that people who have not been exposed to. fenyl could be killed by the amount that. fits on the tip of a pencil and in this. kitchen in this makeshift lab I had just. seen that tip of the pencil thousands of. times over Nell I guess what you're. saying about the ease of production. makes me wonder why it has to be done in. mexic Why Can't This same process occur. in Texas or Brooklyn for that matter.

yeah I mean Michael obviously you could. theoretically make fentanyl in Texas but. the conditions are not as good as they. are in Mexico there's an entire. infrastructure that really supports this. the caloa cartel the cartel that is. according to the US government. responsible for bringing much of the. fenel on American streets across the. border they have years worth of. experience in industrialized drug. production they've done this with a ton. of different products including meth.

which is another synthetic drug so they. have experience in making drugs out of. chemicals they also have a lot of. experience corrupting the Mexican. Government the last time there was a. major Crackdown on drug cartels the. security chief that led that Crackdown. ended up being convicted in an American. court for taking bribes from the caloa. cartel so this is an incredibly powerful. experienced organization that has the. wherewithal and the resources to do this. and The Mexican government has not been.

effective at stamping that out so a key. ingredient here that explains why Mexico. is the Mexican government's inability. slash unwillingness to truly take on and. crack down on these cartels right I mean. and this has been an open question in. Mexico and in the United States for. years is it capacity is it ability or is. it willingness as you say and it's kind. of difficult to know because it hasn't.

been happening and it's hard to. disentangle the reasons why but at the. time that I'm visiting this lab the US. is preparing to inaugurate Donald Trump. and he pretty quickly makes it very. clear that he thinks he knows why I've. informed Mexico and Canada that they. will have to step up and stop the. illegal aliens and illegal drugs from. pouring into our country have to stop. it's that Mexico just doesn't want to do. enough that there's not enough progress. being made made that the country is.

absolutely dominated by this drug and. he's saying the government absolutely. needs to do more or there will be. consequences right Trump's argument. throughout the campaign and once he's. elected is basically Mexico chooses this. situation and it can do a heck of a lot. more exactly and as soon as he finally. takes office I'm not happy with Mexico. or I'm not happy he just starts lobbing. attack after attack on Mexico and he's. really turning the heat up president. China B is a woman I like her very much.

we've had good relationships but we have. to stop fentol from coming in whether I. like somebody or not and we have to stop. there's this threat in the air about a. potential for US military forces to do. targeted strikes on drug labs and. cartels in Mexico eventually the. administration officially designates the. cels as terrorist. organizations and most importantly I'll. be uh putting the Tariff of 25% on.

Canada and separately 25% on Mexico. Trump says he's going to impose massive. devastating tariffs on Mexico unless. they get this problem under control and. I wonder based on this lab you saw and. based on all the reporting you have done. what you made of Trump's actions as they. were. unfurling and if you thought it stood. any real chance of.

changing the fentanyl realities on the. ground in Mexico I mean honestly Michael. I was deeply skeptical I had been going. to caloa for months based on everything. I'd seen this organization this criminal. group was just so entrenched in so many. aspects of daily life and it's really. hard to imagine making a serious impact. on a production operation that requires. so little that can just be re started. from one moment to the next in a place.

that is dominated by one of the most. powerful criminal organizations on the. planet but even though I was really. skeptical I wanted to go back into a lab. to see whether all of these threats. whether all of the pressure that Trump. had put on Mexico had led to real. changes whether any of this actually. made a difference.

[Music]. [Music]. we'll be right. back so Natalie when you went back to. caloa to try to assess whether anything. had changed post Trump's. inauguration what did you find it was.

really remarkable the Dynamics it seemed. had completely changed from the last. time we were there I mean this was still. a very dangerous place there was a lot. of violence but when we started talking. to our cartel contacts they told us. there was basically no production of. fenol happening in the city it had. totally plummeted wow falling off a. cliff I mean they acknowledged that. production was happening elsewhere in. the country it's not like fenel stop.

being made in Mexico r large but here. things had slowed to a near halt h we. met the two Cooks who had invited us. into their labs they said no we shut. everything down there is such an intense. Crackdown by the government right now. and we're under so much scrutiny and. pressure that we're not cooking anything. we didn't meet them inside a lab they. met us at our hotel room and they said. we're not not doing anything right now.

we're actually firing employees we're. saving money we're trying to sell our. cars and other property to try to make. up for lost income because nothing is. going on here there is no lab for you to. visit this time around huh and we saw. firsthand the Crackdown that they were. so afraid. of. lighter at one point we're driving down. the street where where and these police.

trucks pull up these guys just start. spilling out of them and they're scaling. the walls of this house suddenly they're. on the roof all right we're uh literally. watching a raid on a house go down we. just drove up on it there's a police car. and like a a kind of military style tank. like car it's very clear to us that. something is going down. there's officers just all along the. streets we're watching them arrest a guy.

it looks like or they're at least. searching the guy and this kind of scene. was playing out all over the city this. is just like an area that we've been. hanging out in this whole time and like. here is a RAID looking for whatever. either a lab or a person or. whatever while we were there the Mexican. Government arrested two major players. within the cartel so there was a lot of. activity at one point we go to meet with.

a higher level cartel member who when we. get to him he said he had heard about. the raid that we ran up on and he is. genuinely shaking his hands physically. shaking his hands are trembling in front. of us and he said the only option for me. right now is survival no we're not. cooking no we're not making fenyl that. is shut down right now it may be. temporary we are moving Labs we're doing.

this elsewhere but right now I am on. lockdown here I am not leaving my house. I have Lookouts everywhere and I can't. even be here he cut the meeting short he. basically ran out he was so scared and. is this all because of trump well these. guys that we're talking to are saying. look the main thing that has changed. from when you were here last is that. Trump is in office and he's making all. of these threats and The Mexican. government is cracking down like never.

before obviously the Mexican authorities. were on the streets before this it's not. like they weren't doing anything but the. cartel members say they're feeling the. heat at a much higher level it very much. looks like Trump has shocked the Mexican. law enforcement system into action and. in so doing seemed to expose that the. Mexican Government was capable of doing. a lot more than it had been yeah I think.

that's what it looks like to a lot of. people a lot of regular Mexicans a lot. of cartel members and a lot of Security. Experts who've been studying this for a. long time now we have to keep in mind. Claudia sham bomb the new president had. come into office about a month before. Trump was elected and then eventually. started making these threats so she had. signaled early on that she was more. willing to take on the cartels headon. aggressively than her predecessor so we. don't know how much of this might have. happened without Trump anyway because.

she was willing to change the approach. but I think it's pretty clear that the. amount of progress arrests raids lab. busts the pace of these. actions is something that we've not seen. in recent history in Mexico one analyst. told us we've seen in one month what we. might have seen in years of all the. things Trump did I'm curious which. in your reporting stands out as.

ultimately being the most. effective as we think about just how. aggressive Mexico's government has been. I'm going to guess it's the threat of. tariffs but I'm curious what you found. yeah I mean obviously the threat of. military intervention in any way even if. it's just targeted strikes is anathema. in Mexico but the threat of tariffs has. long seemed much more credible I have to. say of the two I think the Tariff threat.

is the one that really Spurs the action. because there's a deadline I mean last. month Trump essentially gave the Mexican. Government 30 days to show results on. security to deliver him the progress he. wanted to see on fenol and when there's. a deadline I mean people hustle to meet. that deadline especially if you know on. the other side of that is potential. economic ruin so I do think that was. really motivating here h I mean what's. fascinating about what you're saying is.

that it seems to confirm to a. degree the Donald Trump thesis which. we've talked about a fair amount on this. show with some of our colleagues that. tariffs are a kind of everything every. issue tool potentially but what's tricky. is the question of whether they're. stronger as a threat or as a reality and. as we're talking to you the United. States has made the threat of tariffs. against Mexico a reality we don't know. how long it's going to last but the US.

has put into place tariffs on Mexico. they could be rolled back in the coming. hours or days but that makes me wonder. if Trump is happy with what Mexico has. done so far or thinks they can go a lot. further when it comes to cracking down. on fenel how do you see it and how do. the leaders in Mexico see it well the. leaders in Mexico are just absolutely. baffled about these tariffs they do not. understand why they're getting punch. punished after having delivered so many.

wins for Trump on security I mean just. days ago the Mexican Government handed. over 29 drug lords that the US. government had been seeking to prosecute. in the United States these are major. figures that had been given over to the. US government and the Mexicans are. saying wait a minute we've gone hard on. these cartels we've given you these. copos what more could we possibly do and. what's the answer I mean in theory could.

they do more well I mean it's unclear. nobody knows exactly what Trump wants. and it's a mystery whether there are. actual benchmarks here or not or whether. the goal poost are just going to keep. moving and moving and moving and there. is some suggestion that they might reach. a deal soon but the reality is that this. pressure is horrific for Mexico Mexico. is incredibly dependent on the US. economy on being able to access us. markets this could potentially push the.

country into a recession and so Claudia. shamam and her government are going to. do absolutely everything they can to get. out from under this and if that means. more security gains I think they're. looking at how they can possibly do more. because they feel like they have their. foot completely on the gas at this point. and they still got hit with the tariffs. right so in theory Trump's approach as. it gets more and more punitive it may.

keep exposing all the things that Mexico. hasn't done could have done arguably. should have done for years to crack down. on fentanyl but hasn't or it could end. up exposing the limits of what Mexico. can do about Fentanyl and the Damage. that the United States is willing to do. to Mexico's economy in the pursuit of. finding out just how much it can do. about fennel yeah I mean it remains to. be seen I mean I told you that I was. skeptical at the outset that this would.

have made a real difference and I was. proven Wrong by the reporting it very. much has made a difference but we have. no idea actually what the Mexican. Government may be able to accomplish as. it tries to Stave off these tariffs get. out from under them keep in mind the. Mexican government has been busting Labs. across the country but the most intense. Crackdown has been mainly concentrated. in this one state caloa it's a really. important state it's Hub of fenal. production but it's just one state this.

drug is made all over the country and. you know if you imagine this Crackdown. spreading it requires a lot of resource. it requires a lot of troops it requires. a lot of intelligence and it requires a. lot of willingness sustained over a. really long period of time to make a. difference there is also huge demand for. this drug in the United States that. really hasn't been addressed and so it. is is hard to imagine that even this.

push even a sustained push could. entirely Stamp Out the production of. this drug without a lot of other. elements coming into. play and I think we're all watching to. see what those elements are Will trump. decide to address demand in the United. States the addiction that has driven so. many people to this lethal substance. will shame bomb continue the pressure.

and for how long can Trump really keep. Mexico in this position of trying to. satisfy his demands because if they. reach a deal on tariffs then what right. has the incentive for Mexico to pursue. this Crackdown gone away right and are. we looking at a period of potentially. several years of these threats and. uncertainty and.

upheaval or is this all just going to go. away tomorrow if they reach a. deal but no matter what happens it does. feel like the clear lesson from your. reporting here and it's a surprising one. and like you said you were skeptical of. it I confess I was a little skeptical of. it myself is that tariffs as a tool of. forcing a government like Mexico to. crack on a very deadly drug is effective.

I think what we've seen is that at least. in this context in this month and in. this place the tariffs worked for now at. [Music]. least well Natalie thank you very much. appreciate it thank. you late on Thursday morning president.

Trump said he was suspending tariffs on. most imports from Mexico for the next. month after a call with Mexico's. president Trump said quote we are. working hard together on the border both. in terms of stopping illegal aliens from. entering the United States and likewise. stopping fenel. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. to day on Wednesday the Supreme Court. rejected president Trump's effort to. freeze $2 billion in foreign aid owed to. government contractors it was a major. blow to Trump's efforts to circum vent. Congress in his pursuit of cost cutting.

the 5 to4 ruling in which Chief Justice. John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney. Barrett sided with the Court's liberal. justices suggested that Trump's plans to. remake the federal government will face. skepticism from the high court and Mayor. Johnson is Denver a sanctuary city folks. use that term differently I can tell you. what Denver does we do not okay I take. that as a yes may Mayor Johnson no yes. or no. I take that as he is during a.

contentious hearing House Republicans. accused the Democratic mayors of New. York Denver Boston and Chicago of making. their cities less safe by harboring. criminal immigrants and refusing to. fully cooperate with the president's. efforts to crack down on illegal. immigration in response the Mayors. defended their policies said that they. were following Federal immigration law. and told House Republicans that con. Congress itself had the power to make.

their cities safer but so far had failed. to do so if you wanted to make us safe. pass gun reforms stop cutting Medicaid. stop cutting cancer research stop. cutting funds for veterans that is what. will make our city. safe today's episode was produced by. Caitlyn O'Keefe CLA tenis and Carlos PR. with help from Nina Feldman it was. edited by Lisa Chia and Lexi di contains.

original music by Dan Powell and Pat. mccusker and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben lansberg of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael. borro see you tomorrow. [Music].