How Elon Musk Is Infiltrating Washington

from The New York Times this is the. daily I'm Rachel. [Music]. Abrams. today Elon Musk and his team have taken. a hacksaw to the federal bureaucracy one. agency at a time and the question has. become whether he's on a crusade that. will leave the government paralyzed or. deliver exactly the kind of shakeup it's. needed for years my colleague Jonathan. Swan takes us inside the this hostile.

takeover of. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. Washington it's Wednesday February. 5th so Jonathan we always understood. that Elon Musk was going to be important. in this Administration in the second. Trump presidency Trump had given.

the group that musk was put in charge of. the Department of government efficiency. or Doge as it's commonly known the job. of shrinking the entire federal. government but the question was always. just how much power musk would actually. have as a private citizen operating. outside the president's cabinet and over. the past few days we've actually started. to get an answer which is a whole lot of. power yes his power is extraordinary he. effectively is unaccountable Donald. Trump has fully empowered him to roam.

across the federal government get inside. the pipes of the federal government look. at the payment systems and the databases. to embed inside these agencies right so. this is not some chin stroking Professor. doing an analysis of government from the. outside and you know let me sit down at. my table and write you some. recommendations you know Walter isacson. wrote biography about Elon Musk where.

people who know him talk about quote. unquote demon mode which he goes into. which is this sort of manic energy. staying up all night sleeping on the. floor of the factory he's done this at. Tesla SpaceX twitter setting unrealistic. deadlines doing Mass layoffs because he. thinks stuff aren't hardcore enough he's. effectively trying to do that to the. federal government his team have moved. beds into agency office.

he has an office space in the west wing. and he also has been working out of this. opulent Secretary of War Suite in the. Eisenhower executive office building and. he's brought with him this cohort from. Silicon Valley people who've worked for. him at Tesla and SpaceX and he's. installed them in some of the most. important parts of government so this is. Elon Musk getting his hands into. government doing what he's done at these. companies and remember you should say. you know he's been in the private. private sector probably the singular.

entrepreneur of our lifetime but if you. understand what he's done with his. business he is marked by incredible risk. taking extreme risk-taking and a. willingness to if he or his employees. consider regulations or laws to be quote. unquote dumb he pushes them and. particularly at SpaceX to defy those. regulations just do it anyway and if. people want to sue so be it if gets to.

the mission of what he's trying to. accomplish we're seeing that kind of. approach inside government right now. okay so what is that demon mode. risk-taking ethos actually look like. that he's applying to the government. what has he been up to this past week. well the first sign of musk and his team. moving into government the first. physical sign was literally right after. Trump's inauguration the day after. workers in the Eisenhower executive. office building which is the big. building next to the West Wing they Dro.

to work and this building houses some. operations for the United States digital. service this is to an operation that was. set up in 2014 to fix the federal. government's online services and they. find a sticky note saying Doge do G on a. door to a suite that was once used as a. workspace a literal poster note yeah. literally a sticky note on the door. saying Doge and this used to be a. workspace for senior technologists at. the agency and inside side there were.

these black backpacks that were strewed. about you had these young Engineers many. of them in their 20s some of them were. wearing t-shirts with blazes over them. roaming the Halls unfamiliar faces. didn't have security badges on that. federal employees typically take when. they go into offices and it turned out. that this was the musk Army the the. cohort of young men who work for musk or. who are in his Network and they have.

come to Washington to help musk on his. mission of slashing the federal. government and the message is really. clear they have arrived yeah and they're. not wasting any. time my colleagues and I have talked to. federal employees at different agencies. and it's really quite extraordinary I. mean these musk allies are interviewing. people across agencies asking them what. have you done lately give me examples of. work you've done justify your job. exactly and when the federal employees.

ask them well who are you in some cases. they're refusing to give their names. because they don't want to be doxed or. they'll just give their first name so. there's this sort of atmosphere of we're. putting the fear of God into all of you. and there is a real hostility that. they're showing to the federal Workforce. right they're really trying to send the. message that we've arrived this. conversation goes one way we ask the. questions what's the next big thing that. happens last week well there's been so. much but one of the big signs of musk's.

imprint was an email that went out to. roughly 2 million federal workers which. is really kind of in itself. extraordinary you know this is not. something that normally happens and they. sent out this email offering them the. option to resign but be paid through the. end of September and the email subject. line fork in the road was the same one. that musk used in an email he said to. Twitter employees when he offered them.

Severance packages in late 2022 and it. says basically we'd love you to resign. quit your lower productivity public. sector job and take a higher. productivity private sector job so it. literally devalued their jobs so he's. basically encouraging people to leave. the government entirely and do something. quote unquote more productive in the. private sector which I can imagine if. you're a civil servant that feels like. you're being treated with contempt.

exactly and then musk goes further and. starts targeting other departments so. where does he start musk began as a. matter of priority with the treasury. Department his team and this goes back. to December during the transition but. they became fixated on the payment. system for the entire federal government. that literally distributes more than $5. trillion a year in Federal spending so.

just imagine millions of Americans. Social Security details and personal. details a very very closely guarded. system usually monitored by career civil. servants who are very experienced and. this came to a head last week when a top. career official at treasury resisted. giving musk's. Representatives access to the federal. payment system he just said no he just. said no there is not going to happen I.

don't agree with this and he was. threatened with administrative leave and. then retired so all this happens on. Friday and then the treasury secretary. Scott bessent approved access for the. musk team to the payment system okay so. let me see if I understand this musk. sends his guys in there they demand. access to this very sensitive system it. runs all the payments for the federal. government somebody tries to resist and. that guy basically quote unquote retired.

meaning maybe gets fired and then they. get in the pipes anyway that's right and. and when we talk to former senior. treasury officials they can't remember. of an an instance ever when this has. happened and there are understandable. concerns that an intrusion into the. system by Outsiders such as you know. musk's. team could lead to critical government. obligations going unpaid from missed. benefit payments to even more dramatic.

consequences now very important to note. the White House has said on the record. now it took a while for us to get. clarity on this that the access they. were granted was quote unquote read only. at least that's what it is now meaning. the musk allies who are now treasury. officials can read and and monitor these. payments but can't alter them why do we. think musk wants access to the actual.

system like why does he even want his. people in their reading there's two. parts to this so so we've talked to a. lot of people who musk has talked to. privately within the administration his. theory of government is the way to. control government is to control the. computers so he wants to get access to. the computers that house the critical. data within the government including all. the Personnel that are on the federal. payroll and also to get access to the.

pipes that distribute the money and musk. has told Administration officials that. he thinks they could actually balance. the federal budget if they eliminate all. the fraudulent payments that are going. out to fake people there's no evidence. to support that statement that I'm aware. of but to be fair to askk there are. billions upon billions of dollars in. improper payments that go out there was. a government accountability office. estimate that the government made. something like 236 billion.

in improper payments during the 2023. fiscal year most of those were. overpayments this is to different people. around the country Social Security what. have you that's a lot of money to be. clear it's a lot of money right and. there is potential for cost savings here. but I mean the federal deficit for 2024. was almost $2. trillion so musk is of the view that the. government is spending vast amounts of. money that is wasteful that is.

fraudulent and in his sort of platonic. ideal his Engineers would just be able. to cut off these payments that are going. out unilaterally and the question then. is okay well what then right because you. know this is money appropriated by. Congress and it's not actually up to. Elon Musk to unilaterally with his team. direct what payments go out and what.

payments stay in it seems Jonathan that. the fundamental sort of animus and. feeling underneath all of these actions. that you've described the email getting. inside the pipes of Treasury is this. basic distrust or even disdain of. government. operations yeah and I don't need to. editorialize or speak in my own words on. this I mean you just listen to the. people involved in this you know vote.

who served in Trump's first. Administration and he's his choice again. to lead the Office of Management and. budget he said in a 2023 speech talking. about the plans for their coming back. into Power he said we want the. bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. wow he said when they wake up in the. morning we want them not to go into work. because they are increasingly viewed as. the villains he's very close Ally with. Elon Musk and musk himself has the same. mindset.

I mean he very revealing the language. he's using he said very few in the. bureaucracy actually work the weekend so. it's like the opposing team just leaves. the field for 2 days so you see the. mindset we are coming in and now fully. empowered by the president of the United. States with the attitude of this is a. government full of incompetent people. full of people who don't do any work who. are lazy don't work the weekends and we. are coming in here with the sort of. bureaucratic version of a.

bazooka and he's even talked about. eliminating entire. [Music]. agencies we'll be right. [Music]. back so Jonathan you mentioned earlier. that Elon Musk said his sites on entire.

agencies what did you mean by that what. did he. do well he has turned his attention very. aggressively towards the US agency for. International Development which is known. as usaid this is the agency that is. charged with delivering humanitarian. assistance overseas to some of the most. vulnerable people around the world you. know nutritional assistance for children. designed to help. promote stability and.

humanitarianism and we've seen now a. pretty stunning series of. [Music]. events a week ago members of musk's Team. entered the headquarters of. usaid they demanded and were granted. access to the agency's financial and. Personnel. systems during that period an acting. administrator at the agency put about 60.

senior officials on paid leave and. issued stop work orders that led to the. firing of hundreds of contractors with. full-time employment and health. benefits by Saturday the agency's. website. vanished like literally just disappeared. went dark and when the top two security. directors at usid tried to stop members. of the musk team from entering a secure. area to get classified files they were. placed on administrative leave Katie. Miller who works on the musk initiative.

said on X that no classified material. was accessed without proper security. clearances but by Monday usaid was. effectively paralyzed and musk has said. that the president agreed that we should. shut it. [Music]. down is musk just allowed to come in and. shut down an entire agency just like. that I mean is Trump fully supportive of. this. well remember it's congress not the.

president that gets to decide how to. structure the executive branch of. government and Congress has enacted laws. that says usid should exist as an. independent establishment so this is. running directly into very serious legal. questions and questions about whether. Congress is going to assert itself as. Trump basically runs rough shot over the. institution right. and in terms of musk's own authority.

he's effectively unaccountable because. Trump has given him his Blessing it's. not like Trump is really interested in. the minutia of the United States digital. service or the treasury payment system. or all of these pretty wonky and in some. cases quite obscure parts of government. that musk and his team are taking. control of he keeps Trump you know a. breast he drops into White House. meetings he has an office in The West. Wing He he'll you know go into the oval.

talk to Trump on the phone but even like. senior members of The White House staff. have found themselves in the dark about. what he's doing and trying to figure out. after the fact one Trump official that. one of my colleagues talked to who only. spoke on the condition of anonymity said. that musk was widely seen as operating. with a level of autonomy that almost no. one can control in other words demon. mode as we described earlier. exactly so you now have a situation.

where you have an entire Federal agency. that's responsible for delivering Aid. around the world where employees there. are in a state of confusion anxiety they. don't know whether their agency will. exist sure doesn't look like it will and. no one can say this is a surprise Trump. campaigned on this that we shouldn't be. spending money overseas that we should. cut off in spending and has been very.

clear that he intended to do this so. while there are really serious legal and. constitutional questions about this. nobody who's been reading our coverage. and listening to Donald Trump for the. last four years should have any level of. surprise that he's doing this but how. much of this is actually about the. budget of usaid like it doesn't strike. me as sort of the biggest agency if you. were looking for you know big cuts is is. this a huge amount of money is it about.

something that's beyond the. money well usad makes up less than 1% of. the federal budget you know it spent. about $38 billion in fiscal year 23 Elon. Musk has said that the success will be. measured on how many dollars per day. they Slash from federal spending so they. are looking for dollars everywhere but. there's definitely an ideological. component here Elon Musk has called. usaid evil that's not just saying oh his. there's $38 billion that we want to trim.

out no this is an evil institution in. his mind and if you are looking for the. platonic ideal of an agency that cuts. against the quote unquote America First. agenda it's probably the agency that. sends money in foreign aid overseas. right the White House sent out a list of. things that they say that the US Aid is. doing that do not align with the. president's agenda they picked out you.

know examples that relate to diversity. equity and inclusion around the world. and basically the impression that the. White House has sought to create in the. public mind is this is a quote unquote. woke agency run by radical lunatics in. Trump's words that is spreading. left-wing gender ideology around the. world and we're going to shut it down to. save taxpaying money where do you think. musk and Doge go from here because we're. only two weeks into the new. Administration so I'm wondering if you.

expect that he's going to continue to. operate without much. resistance so it's really interesting. you know after Trump won the election. won the popular vote Democrats have been. just a mess you know. divided everyone coming up with. different theories about why they lost. depressed some of them. capitulating but we've just seen in the. last few days the resistance starting to. awaken and it's actually not Trump who's.

awakened them It's oddly Elon. Musk we're starting to see organized. labor rally against him you're seeing. lawsuits being filed when our. constitution is under attack what do we. do F you saw protests in DC outside the. buildings of OPM USA ID and the treasury. Trump is a puppet of a foreign National. whose name is who has taken over our.

data who has taken over our buildings. has lost federal workers out of. buildings Democratic members of the. Senate who've been pretty quiet since. the election are starting to voice their. outrage about what musk is doing we. don't have a fourth branch of government. called Elon Musk and that's going to. become real clear you're starting to see. the resistance which had been really in. hiding since the election start to. emerge again it is embarrassing to read.

the headlines about free America where. one man is walking around like he is the. boss of all of us and we don't know who. put him in charge and it is time for us. to put an end to. [Applause]. [Music]. that now people have been predicting for. weeks that Trump and Elon Musk would. fall out that this relationship would. not be aable it's actually been much. more durable than many people thought.

Trump almost entirely speaks very warmly. of musk in private but he did sound a. little bit of a cautionary note on. Monday when he was asked about musk by. reporters and he said quote Elon can't. do and won't do anything without our. approval and he said if there's a. conflict then we won't let him near it. that's fine to say that but it's not. really what's happening in practice. okay so Jonathan is there an argument to.

be made that this kind of slash and burn. tactic is actually the only way to carry. out the promise that musk and Trump have. made about shrinking the government and. that also given musk's track record in. the private sector and his unique. standing with Trump musk is uniquely. positioned some might even say he's. really qualified to make these kind of. cuts in a way that nobody has. before well I I think there's sort of. two separate SE parts to this one is is.

Elon Musk a brilliant entrepreneur who. has shown that he's very ruthless about. cost cutting to the point where he's. taken several of his companies to the. brink of Destruction before rescuing. them and in the cases of Tesla and. SpaceX turning them into. transformational companies yes yes all. of that is true where this becomes. thorny is we're not talking about an. electric car company where let's say.

Elon Musk didn't manage to pull it back. from the brink and it failed well the. only casualties of that are you know a. slower transition to electric cars uh. some investors lose their money some. Engineers lose their jobs not to. diminish that but now you're talking. about the federal government r large so. is there the possibility that Elon Musk. could uh and Trump could slash huge. amounts of money out of the federal. government yes of course there is but. the stakes feel really different here. the stakes are different right you're. talking about the country and the.

federal government and you know you're. talking about the public interest and. just take one example right Elon Musk. leads this effort to send out this email. to the entire Federal Workforce you know. email saying basically we'd love if you. would just resign just think about that. for a second who are the federal. employees that are most likely to take. that offer it's probably people who have. options outside who are sought after who. have technical expertise that is.

valuable that private sector companies. could benefit from so you're going to. potentially lose actually the thin layer. at the top that is most skilled most. experienced and potentially most. critical to the functionings of. government so basically what you're. saying is that you're encouraging. possibly the most talented maybe some of. the most important civil servants across. the government who do arrange of things. to leave and that does raise a really.

interesting question of who is left yes. and the other thing that is challenging. with this reporting on Elon Musk is that. in this role it's actually very hard. sometimes to discern where the public. interest ends and where Elon musk's. private interests begin well let's talk. about his private interests actually. because there's a whole other dimension. to this that we haven't even talked.

about which is how much business Elon. Musk does with the federal government. even if you think he's the right person. to cut it down and even if you think his. experience at Twitter is relevant here. and just to remind people when he took. over Twitter and gutted it and got rid. of a lot of employees people said. Twitter will never survive this and. obviously Twitter X is very much still. operational even if you think all of. that experience is relevant he still has. all kinds of potential conflicts of.

interest so tell us a little bit about. that well you have the richest man in. the world whose companies have billions. of dollars worth of contracts with the. federal government I mean SpaceX his. rocket company you know effectively. dictates NASA's launch schedule and you. have the president of the United States. giving musk vast power over the. bureaucracy that regulates his company. and awards them.

contracts the intermingling is extremely. tight he's shaping not just policy but. Personnel decisions officially musk is. serving as a special government employee. according to the White House but this is. a status typically given to part-time. outside advisers to the federal. government who offer their advice based. on their private sector expertise and so. he has not had to divest for many of his. businesses he still retains his interest.

in all his businesses and he is hardly a. part-time advisor offering advice um and. and that's before we even get to his. foreign conflicts Tesla has relied to. significant extent on the Chinese. government and the Chinese market so. there are just conflicts as far as the. eye can see and while Trump has asserted. that where there's a conflict of. interest they won't allow musk to play.

in that area the bare facts already. disprove that Jonathan you have covered. Trump and those around him for years. obviously and their biggest complaint. and you hear this almost every day from. people like Steven Miller one of the. president's top advisers you profiled on. the show last week is that the federal. government has become overrun by. unelected bureaucrats who are. accountable to nobody they don't face. elections. and in fact even a few days ago Elon.

Musk himself said it was time to quote. restore power to the people from the. vast unelected. bureaucracy but given everything you've. laid out here for us it feels like musk. and Doge have become arguably the most. powerful unelected bureaucracy possibly. in the history of the country so what we. what they used to exist in this country. was was the spoil system was a patronage. system where when power changed hand. government was stocked with supporters.

people were rewarded with jobs a series. of laws were passed that made the Civil. Service permanent effectively or gave. them really strong job protections with. the idea being that people develop. expertise over a long period of time. these are not inherently political jobs. or shouldn't be and what we're. potentially seeing right now is the. return to that spoil system to. eliminating this permanent.

bureaucracy and replacing it each time a. new president comes in with their cohort. not just for a thin layer at the top as. happens every Administration but for. something for a much larger group of. people and when you have the richest man. in the world leading this. effort still holding his interests in. his private companies still his. companies doing millions of dollars of. business with the federal government.

still with his companies being regulated. by the federal government you have a. level of conflict of interest that we've. just never seen in the modern. era Jonathan thank you very much thanks. for having. [Music]. me on Tuesday Elon Musk and his team. took aim at their latest Federal agency. the department of Education officials.

told employees that Doge was. scrutinizing their operations and they. warned that it could lead to staff. reductions we'll be right back. [Music].

here's what else you need to know today. today I'm delighted to welcome Israeli. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu back. to the White House it's a wonderful. feeling and a wonderful event with in a. joint news conference on Tuesday night. at the White House president Trump said. the United States would take over Gaza. permanently relocate 2 million of its. Palestinian residents and turn the. Enclave into quote the Riviera of the. Middle East this was not a decision made.

lightly everybody I've spoken to loves. the idea of the United States owning. that piece of land developing and. creating thousands of jobs with. something that will be magnificent Trump. said that developing Gaza would Supply. jobs and housing for quote the people of. the area a vague reference that aligns. with the far-right Coalition within. netanyahu's government which wants to. repopulate Gaza with. Israelis the statement was also striking. because it contradicted Decades of US.

policy that has favored a two-state. solution but just like statements the. president has made about taking over. Greenland and the Panama Canal Trump did. not site any legal Authority that would. allow him to take Gaza over nor did he. address the fact that forcible removal. of an entire population violates. international. law and on Tuesday China responded to. the 10% tariff imposed by Trump with a. flurry of retaliatory measures including.

tariffs of its own on liquefied natural. gas coal and farm machinery imported. from the US the back and forth. demonstrated how quickly Trump's tariffs. can escalate into a series of painful. tit fortat economic. reprisals today's episode was produced. by Jessica Chung mu Sadi and Caitlyn. O'Keefe with help from Shannon Lynn it. was edited by lizo Balin with help from. Paige cowt contains original music by.

Will Reed Pat mccusker Maran Lozano and. Dan Powell and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben lansberg of. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Rachel Abrams see you tomorrow. [Music].