How a Skeptical Critic Came to Love Bad Christmas Movies

from The New York Times I'm Michael. boaro this is the. [Music]. daily today the story of how a big city. culture critic Amanda Hess Found Love. where she least expected it in the. monotony of Hallmark's Christmas movies.

[Music]. it's Tuesday December. [Music]. 24th Amanda thank you for coming into. the studio thank you so much for having. me this is your first time on the show. this is the thing we get to do at the. end of the year we get to bring on. everybody who's never been on the show. but who we secretly have wanted to be on. the show uh this is my Christmas wish.

come. true um you write about culture for the. times you're a Critic and you're here. today to talk about a subject that I'll. be honest I don't think I or many of us. on the show ever imagined might be an. episode of The Daily you are going to be. providing an exploration a meditation. whatever you want to call it a kind of. study of the made for Te EV Christmas.

movie which you contend has not quite. gotten the critical attention that it. deserves and specifically you're going. to be talking to us here about that most. familiar brand of made for TV Christmas. movie the Hallmark Channel Christmas. movie that is our subject today yes how. do you justify. that I wasn't always this way I think I. was always I was always interested in.

Hallmark Christmas movies on a meta. level but I was not interested in. sitting down and watching them for an. hour and a half or talking about them on. the daily yeah right but that changed. this. year and now I still think they're bad. but I really like watching. them well before we get to how you. became this person who watches these. movies I want you to.

describe especially for the unacquainted. this entire universe of made for TV. movies just give us a little bit a. background about it well like you said. we're really talking about a category. that was pioneered by the Hallmark. Channel and is still dominated by that. Channel Hallmark produces dozens of. these made for TV Christmas movies every. year in 20124 they released 32 wow of. them um and one can imagine that that.

they're not putting a huge amount of. production into these movies they kind. of seem like they each have the budget. for like one snow flurry a movie one. fake snowstorm. film what are the names of some of these. movies just so we know what we're. talking about here let me pull up a list. of them lucky Christmas the case for. Christmas A Christmas wedding tale that. one's about a Christmas wish Holiday.

Engagement the Christmas Pageant. Christmas Magic Christmas song. Matchmaker Santa it's Christmas. Carol it's Christmas comma. Carol yes there's not a lot of variation. in this titling no these are these. movies are very similar to each other so. I want to now dive into this journey. that you have been on with these movies. what had been your relationship to them. up until quite recently when I first.

became aware of them I thought they were. very stupid um they seemed anti-feminist. to me and really really sentimental have. you watched a lot of them I had seen. maybe a combined five minutes of these. movies but it was enough to understand. what was happening and the women always. seemed to exist only to fall in love. like they would throw away their entire. lives like as soon as they were touched. by the magic of Christmas but then as.

the narrator of a movie might say one. fiful day things changeed for you so. tell us that story so a couple of months. ago I learned that someone I know who's. an actor in New York appeared in a. Hallmark Christmas movie and the next. time I saw him I was like interrogating. him about it I was like did you wear a. scarf did you wear a flannel shirt like. how many costume changes did you have. what colors were you wearing did they. use the same set for every Christmas.

movie and just like turn it over and as. I was asking him this he said do you. like Hallmark Christmas movies and I. said no even though clearly I was very. interested in them and so I decided that. this year maybe I would actually watch a. few of them and it turned out that by. the time I sat down to do that I was in. this place in November where um someone. very close to me had a Health scare and.

they ended up being completely fine but. there was like a week where I was. waiting for test results to come back. and um the the worst week ever yeah I. was. so uh Frozen as a person and I really. needed to find something to watch that. was really uncomplicated and easy and I. found that there was nothing easier than. watching these Christmas movies and I. came out of the experience really.

starting to like them H well well just. explain that I mean unpack for us why. these movies were such a a balm for you. in this vulnerable. moment well so they do have this very. recognizable formula and there are some. variations but in the classic one. there's a big city woman who's in her. 30s which in these movies is like she's. getting a little long in the tooth.

like you know she needs to find love. fast but she has her career that she. loves Maran why do you think it is you. and I are the top female lawyers in the. city because we never give. up I thought you were going to say. because we're very powerful Independent. Women who don't rely on anyone to do our. dirty work even though she's a little. miserable in it deep down we're looking. for Unique Individuals whose life styles. are flexible and can keep up with the. demand that sounds like me in every way. great so what I really need to know is.

how available are you I'm very very. available even during the holidays yeah. what about family partner household pets. are they okay with this I'm kind of a. one-woman band perfect then I have a. flight for you for some bizarre reason. she needs to go back to her hometown I. don't think anybody's going to be. getting through this until it dissipates. suggest you find a place to land before. you're out over the ocean like she's a. pilot and she's forced to do an. emergency landing on Christmas Island.

attention this is your captain Kate. Gabriel due to severe weather conditions. over the Atlantic we are making a. temporary stop in Nova Scotia Canada so. much for our easy flight to Europe seat. Bel or she is forced to go to Scotland. for Christmas because her mother has. unexpectedly inherited a castle there. 30,000 this place is 30,000 Acres did. you know your family has 30 bathrooms. why does anyone need 30 bathrooms you. know whatever is hey it's me so believe.

it or not I am driving down Main Street. yep I'm home listen we have so much to. catch up on she goes to this small town. and they all look eerily similar there's. this quaint Town Square yeah you. know most people come here for the. lighthouse but I think this street is. pretty special that's always very. festively decorated for Christmas and. that is how Granny Falls got her. nickname.

Christmas Town and there's just like a. random like really hot guy who she runs. into like often quite literally they. bump into each. other. oops just watch her step there thank you. he might be a handsome woodworker it's. not very far I'm just going to walk then. let me walk with you I just have to put. some tools away and lock up or an. unassuming groundskeeper who leads a. ladder just standing around I do oh and. once they go in his house even though.

he's like a 36 to 42y old single man. it's always. aggressively decorated for. Christmas and here we. are. wow Nick this is beautiful this must. have taken you days and as they embark. on some kind of Christmas task. together whether it's.

solving the mystery of a missing. ornament that will unlock a genealogical. mystery for This Woman's family this is. Grandma's tradition it's an Incredible. Gift she's given me or they need to turn. around a struggling music venue so that. her parents can save it okay I need you. to declare one of these holiday ipas as. perfect otherwise it might just be game. over for mogile Joe's that bad huh well. now that I know the stakes let's do this.

they fall in love mhm but there's some. impediment to their love usually it has. something to do with the woman having to. go back to the big city Andy I'm leaving. for Seattle in the morning I called your. mom and I'm staying with her tonight I. think it's for the best she has to make. a big decision as to whether she's going. to return to her old life and her career. or she's going to start her new life. which is based in this new relationship. she goes to the airport she gets in the. car and then I'm turn the car around you.

know she asked the driver to turn the. car around if I can figure out how to. run my own practice I can figure out how. to make this work and often the small. town man presents her with a seasonally. appropriate necklace traditionally. you're not supposed to open Christmas. presents till midnight then I've never. been much for. tradition oh. Charles may I and there's usually a. scene where he puts the necklace on and. maybe he'll adjust it on her collar bone.

or something and then they fall in love. this of course is this of course is a is. a a moment of. physicality and a blossoming love yeah. it's like the closest it's a release. it's the closest that they're going to. come to like having sex in this movie. and she stays in Hallmark land forever. presumably they kiss and then the. movie's over so we don't really know. what happens after that Merry Christmas. Annie Merry Christmas Will. [Music].

I mean these are pretty cliché plot. lines so what was it about this formula. that you just described that serves you. so well back in November when you start. watching this there's something really. satisfying about them hitting every. single one of the the beats every single.

time over and over again for hundreds. and hundreds of movies like there's very. little variation and it's kind of like. completing a paint by numbers. craft I started to get really invested. in like predicting when the next. predictable plot point was going to. happen and I think like at this point if. I watched a Hallmark Christmas movie and. they went back to the man's house and it. was not decorated for Christmas I would.

be pissed and I would be like this woman. needs to get out of there because he's a. psycho like um she needs to leave right. now and so I think I just became so. versed in the cliches of the world that. like I began to find them um comforting. I didn't want anything dramatic to. happen I didn't want anything surprising. to happen or stressful I was already. feeling enough of that and so you didn't. want much to be demanded of you yeah I. wanted every to be firmly predictable.

and it was I'm thinking back to what you. said at the beginning of this. conversation which is that when you were. not as familiar with these films and. when you were not in an acute phase of. being very open to them because of this. medical situation happening around you. you found them to be anti-feminist and. if I'm reading the room correctly you. thought you were a little bit better. than these movies and yet you go to this. phase where you're very open to them. them they are this solution to something.

and you've warned them a lot so what. does that tell us not just about these. movies and their formula but about you. what did you learn about yourself. um I think I've been beaten down Enough. by life at this point to be more open to. sentimental things I think when I first. learned about these movies maybe 15. years ago my career was my identity I. was not unlike. one of these Hallmark heroins and so big.

city girl yeah exactly now like I can. see the appeal of you know moving to. Christmas Town USA and giving it all up. but also I realized once I actually. watched the movies that typically it's. not that the woman just quits her job in. order to do nothing and to be barefoot. and pregnant with her new woodworking. husband's baby she is quitting her big. city job for this idealized form of work.

that's inherently creative and. meaningful you know she's running a. candy cane shop or she's taking over a. Small Town Diner and so she's still. working and but she has a job that you. know is more connected yeah to a place a. kind of job that maybe is less and less. likely to exist right um and she's. finding a different kind of fulfillment. than. the big city media kind of world right.

just to name an example so I guess in. your affection for these movies you. learn that you have changed and in the. ways that you have changed you identify. more with these larger questions and. perhaps even critiques of modern. ambition and quote unquote. success yeah I mean I definitely know. now more than I did before that like.

work is not going to love you back I. don't think that means that. necessarily a small town air traffic. controller is going to love you back or. a small town groundskeeper is going to. love you back but I'm more open to. watching a movie where that is the. case I mean it's also true that like. when I first became aware of these. movies the actors seemed really old but. now I am old and so they're usually a. little bit younger me now and so I've.

definitely just aged into the. [Music]. category we'll be right. [Music]. back what does the critic in you make of. this this journey that you have been on.

from skeptic and maybe even slightly. disdainful skeptic to maybe not even all. that grudging a. fan well I think of my journey as. somewhat of a romantic comedy. plot where in a. romcom one party UPS his game and one. party lowers her defenses until they. meet on level ground and they can have a. relationship and that's what's happened. here that's you and and the Hallmark.

holiday movie I've definitely gotten. softer as a person and more open to what. they're selling but they have also. gotten a little bit more cynical and a. little more Arch and they're selling. themselves more aggressively to people. like me just explain that how have they. gotten a little bit more Arch because. from everything you're saying the. formula is faithful and not Arch right. so the formula Remains the Same but. there are new entrance to the category. that are putting little twists on it the. big one is Netflix so Netflix is now a.

Christmas movie generator of its own and. its movies tend to be marketed a little. bit more as comedies so there's still. romances but there's a little bit more. of an emphasis on the comedy mhm. remember that muscular Snowman from the. snow sculpture festival and so in hot. Frosty for example which has been. emblazoned across my Netflix homepage. yes it's hard to avoid so he says. doesn't remember anything before last.

night that's not good I was a Snowman. that's definitely not good it's a movie. about a snowman who becomes a real. person how could you possibly trust me. because you put the scarf on me and. falls in love with ly shabar so there's. the remote the power on and off there's. a moment where hot Frosty is learning. everything about the human world by. watching television please tell her to. let me out of here well miss we'd love. to be able to do that but and one of the.

things he watches is a previous Netflix. Christmas movie and so there is some. acknowledgement of the idea that this is. a category that even if people love to. watch these movies they may still like. to poke a little bit of fun at them. right it's winking at itself yeah. Netflix has also made their Christmas. movies a little bit more risque I got. you some clothes but uh you're going to. have to try them on oh wa no um not. right now got it. so there's usually a shirtless man who's.

romping around the uh Christmas. Wonderland and for some bizarre reason. and it's a it's going to be a Christmas. Spectacular full of of hot upand. coming men there's a movie called The. Merry gentleman which is basically Magic. mik meets Christmas there's just there's. got to be a way to get people excited. about this place again and you think. male strippers are the answer a bunch of. local men need to put on an erotic mail.

review in order to save a local bar. that's fallen into de of course they do. a little spice on the old yeah Hallmark. formula yes oh my God you're naked okay. first of all my shirt was dry so you can. imagine that the cable Hallmark Channel. audience is probably a little different. than the Netflix streaming audience and. it does seem like Netflix's Christmas. offerings are meeting its audience where.

they're at a little bit more so there. are more like sexual situations even if. there's not like a sex scene there are. more jokes there are more actors that. you might recognize from sitcoms so it. really does seem like Netflix is. specifically seating its movies with. Millennial. bait um especially because the actor who. now is most associated. with Netflix holiday movies is Lindsay.

Lohan and she I think more than anyone. else has been kind of the Avatar of. millennial girlhood and then teenhood. and now um middle age unfortunately is. where we are at MH so Amanda when you. finished this exercise of immersing. yourself in the world of these holiday. movies this fall and now into this. winter you ended up writing about it in.

an essay that ran in the times entitled. how I aged into the bad Christmas movie. what was the response to that. essay I got a stronger response to that. essay than any other piece I've ever. written ever yes and when I wrote the. story because I am making a bit of fun. at these movies I was curious whether. fans of them would be upset with me and. it turns out that a lot of people are.

watching these movies in the same mode. that I'm watching them which is to say. as a formulaic Escape as a predictable. way of navigating a challenging time. exactly is there one of these emails. that stands out to. you I'm going to find. it okay dear Amanda I watched my first. Hallmark bad Christmas movie that super. cold Sunday the other week while I meant. to do some things around the house as I. was not venturing outside I saw our fat.

kitty on the couch looking for a belly. rub sat down and turned on the. television randomly scrolling through. the channels I came across the start of. a Christmas movie on the Hallmark. Channel my mom was always a fan and. watched them religiously she passed last. year at 90 and for whatever reason I. felt compelled to watch boy was it. bad I loved it and watched another right. after it and cried thank you for the. article spot on for me best to you.

Amanda you rock Judy she's describing. this as a kind of. inheritance yeah it's a new kind of. tradition all right I want another. okay uh let's see here's another that I. really liked hi Amanda I've never. written to a journalist before here we. go or written in the comment section but. I was compelled to do so by your article. boy do I feel old this holiday season. LOL I had the exact same reaction you. did about a week ago I'm currently.

undergoing IVF and had my embryo. transferred Tuesday and as part of my. lelow routine I watched every single. good bad Christmas movie on Netflix by. hot Frosty I was like wow what happened. to me when did I reach this low how can. they keep a straight face why can't I. look away I am their Target demographic. thanks XX Alejandra that is literally. the mirror image of what happened to.

you yeah whenever I write anything I. think I'm like I'm so odd no one could. ever relate to. me there's something wrong with me and. you know I found out in this case that. that's definitely not true yeah you're. more Universal than you maybe give. yourself credit for maybe so in. listening to you read those emails and. assuming that there's dozens more like. them in your. inbox it occurs to me that the. phenomenon you're experiencing here is. not that complicated right and maybe in.

the beginning you over complicated the. whole thing with your view of these. movies and you should have never doubted. their value I mean we do at the New York. Times tend to. fetishize complexity right right in arts. and in culture but complex doesn't. always make for a comforting ritual cuz. life is pretty complicated as it is so. maybe the movie don't have to be yeah I. mean I think at the beginning I was.

thinking the existence of these movies. fascinates me but they're so bad and I. would never watch them um and you know I. should have just been more comfortable. stopping at these movies fascinate me. you know there were many years that I. could have been enjoying these hundreds. of movies that I chose not to so what is. the future here between you and this. brand of movie is this like a forever. thing. I think it.

is I sound so depressed when I say. that I mean I think you know it's like. none of these movies will become my. classic Christmas movie that I watch. every year but I will watch a movie that. is nearly identical when it comes out. next year I'll watch 12 of them yeah I. mean to put this very. simply they've got you they got me you. didn't want to be gotten but you got no. they want me over and I'm in. [Music].

love well Amanda thank you very much for. being here as it happens this is the. last episode that we are going to be. running of the daily Before Christmas. day so Merry Christmas to you Merry. Christmas to you and thank you for. coming thank you so much for having me.

[Music]. we'll be right. back here's what else you need to. another day on Monday President Biden. commuted the sentences of nearly all. prisoners on federal death row meaning. that they will instead serve life. sentences without parole the decision. prevents president-elect Trump from. ordering the prisoners executions as he. has promised to do Biden campaigned on.

ending the federal death penalty and. ordered that such executions be stopped. during his presidency still he did not. commute the sentences of three notorious. death row prisoners who were convicted. of hate motivated mass murder and. terrorism including the Boston Marathon. bomber and a highly anticipated report. by the house Ethics Committee found. found that Matt Gates the former.

Republican congressman from Florida. regularly paid for sex had sexual. relations with an underage girl and used. illegal drugs Gates who resigned from. Congress last month was Trump's pick to. run the Department of Justice before he. withdrew over accusations that were. largely confirmed by the house ethics. report gates for his part denies any. wrongdoing. [Music].

today's episode was produced by Rob. zipco Alex Stern and Michael Simon. Johnson it was edited by Rachel quer. with help from Lexi di contains original. music by aliciaa and Dian Wong and was. engineered by Alyssa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben Lans of. wonderly. [Music].

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Michael Laro. see you tomorrow. [Music].