Health Trackers Are Everywhere. Do Babies Need Them, Too?

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel. Abrams and this is the Daily. More and [music] more people are wearing. technology. Fitness bands, smart rings, biometric shirts. These devices help. [music] track everything from their. heart rate to even the temperature of. their skin. The latest frontier, health. tech for babies, and it's being. supercharged by AI. [music]. And so today, my colleague Sapna Majari.

tells us about her family's experience. with all of this health tracking. technology, and we discuss whether it's. helping us, just adding to our. anxieties, or [music]. maybe both. It's Wednesday, [music] September 23rd. Okay, so Subnet, as you know, we are. here today to talk about not just. wearable technology, but all kinds of.

technology that helps you track health. data. And I just want to lay my cards. out on the table and say that I don't. use any of this stuff. I don't have an. Apple Watch. I don't use an Aura ring. I'm very much of the mindset that I. don't need to spend $300 on some kind of. piece of jewelry that's going to tell me. that if I drink, I won't sleep very. well. So, do you think by the end of. this episode I will realize the error of. my ways or will I be more set in them? >> Hm. Great question. I don't know how. you're going to feel, but I can tell you. that I never thought I would be using a. bunch of this technology or that my.

family would. And it all kind of crept. into my life. >> How so? >> So, I'm a mother of two. >> And when my first kid was born about. four years ago, I was looking for a baby. monitor. And at that time as I did my. research, everyone kept recommending. this monitor called the Nanet. >> The Nanet. Okay. And tell us what the. Nanet does. >> So the Nanet is a baby monitor that. hooks up to your home Wi-Fi and lives as. an app on your phone. >> It's kind of like the Eye of Sauron. It's grabbing data from the video.

footage and and logging. >> We are the Eye [laughter] of Sauron. Is. that really what you want watching your. baby? Well, you know, you might you. might not think so at first, but it it. was pretty amazing. So, you open this. app and the app is tracking the baby's. movements. It logs when they woke up, when they fell asleep. It can see when. their eyes open and close. >> It's looking at all of these movements. and sleep patterns of your baby, and. then it's putting it into this.

digestible format for any parent. So my. husband and I would open the app and we. would look at the insights tab and we. would see, okay, how many times did we. visit our baby overnight? How many hours. of sleep did she get? How many times did. she wake up? And when she woke up, how. long was she awake before she put. herself back to sleep? And so from this. app, you can check on your baby from. anywhere, whether you're at home or at. the grocery store or maybe even at your. office. And one of the things that. hooked us on this app was the video.

camera would make these cute montages of. these moments of greeting our daughter. in the morning and this this look of joy. on her face as we picked her up. And the. nanet is just one of many of these baby. tech [music] products. There's a really. big rival of nanet called the Owlet and. that tracks a baby's pulse through a. sock. >> A sock. >> Through a sock. >> like literally in the foot. That's what. Oh wow. >> There's a sensor in the sock. There's an. app that tracks feedings and diaper. changes and with that information. markets an AI chatbot to parents who. want to understand their baby's habits.

There's monitors that send alerts to. parents when their baby's face might be. covered in the crib and on and on. [music]. and across the board. I would say these. apps are feeding off parents anxiety, their questions, the sort of persistent. is this normal? >> Yeah. No, it's so this is so interesting. just because I just had dinner with a. couple friends of mine and the husband. was saying that he couldn't sleep with. his newborn because he was so worried.

that the newborn would stop breathing. and he kept checking in the middle of. the night and the only thing that. allowed him to sleep was it turned out. he bought a nanit. It's because he was. like, "Okay, I can sleep because this. thing will alert me if my kid stops. breathing." And and so I I know I can. actually sleep because I'll get woken up. if there's a problem. >> Yeah, definitely. And I think that's the. running theme with all of these products. is they tap into a new parent's desire. for more sleep. Anyone with an infant. knows that sleep is sort of this holy. grail when you have a an infant in the. home. And uh there's a lot of other.

anxieties that that they promise to sort. of solve. And I noticed this really with. my second child when we bought another. nanet. >> that it had started incorporating more. AI into the app where it wasn't just. giving me feedback on what happened or. or monitoring them, but it was now. giving me actual advice. I mean, including, you know, when they should. sleep next or, you know, how we should. interpret different things that they're. doing in their crib. And of course, all. of these products are are trying to sell.

you the advice with a subscription fee a. lot of the time. And it started raising. these questions for me around, okay, when should we trust our own instincts. versus artificial intelligence when it. comes to decision-m around our kids'. health? And on top of that, how should. we think about AI when it comes to our. own health? So, as I was marketed all of. these different forms of advice on how. to watch over my child, I decided I. wanted to know more about this company.

whose products stare at my kids all. night. And it turns out it has way. bigger ambitions around AI and how to. use the data. So, I went to interview. the CEO Anushka Selenas at the Nana. office in New York. >> Well, I yeah, I've loved learning more. about what Nana is up to. >> And what did you learn? What did she. tell you about the company? So Selena. sees a lot of potential in the data that. Nana is collecting and the insights that. they can give parents over time. >> measured, right? So 90% of a child's. brain develops, you know, between the.

ages of 0 and 5. It's when their brain. is most plastic. And yeah, kids are. going to the pediatrician basically once. a year for a checkup. 22 minutes is the. average amount of time that that checkup. lasts. And yet children are sort of. developing every single day. Obviously, we both know this having two young kids. And so we have this infrastructure and. opportunity to unlock this black box. that's the first five years of life that. exists today. >> And the message that Nana is pushing is. that there is a black box around this. stage of a child growing as they develop.

motor skills as they learn to talk as. they engage with the world around them. So why isn't there more information. around this? And what they're saying is. Nanet can provide that information. We. have the measurements every single day. of what's happening, right? So the power. of that. >> right now the company is focused on. sleep and babies, but it wants to expand. beyond sleep into a kid's overall health. and development and investors see that. potential as well. Nanet just raised. another $50 million last year and its.

CEO says that with more data, the. company can help parents ultimately make. better decisions for their kids. >> People have questions every single day, multiple times a day. Is this normal? Should my child be doing this? How do I. handle that? Right? >> Her argument is if you look at modern. parenting today, people are googling, they're turning to Reddit, they're now. asking chat GPT. >> Sure. >> What she's saying and what Nana is. saying is this device is collecting this. personalized, really specific.

information about your child. And so. nanet has this advantage in giving you. advice or or information or helping you. you track milestones that are very. specific to your child. For example, if. you are trying to see, you know, when is. it normal for a child to walk or crawl, the CDC will offer a range for kind of. an average child. >> The CDC will say like between the age of. this and this, your child should be. expected to walk. Like very general, >> right? If you're going to claude or.

wherever, they that's the information. that they have, right? Is like the range. of normal is this to this. We have all. all the information that's been captured. every single day that can help you. understand what's right for your child. and also what's right for your family, right? >> So, is there something nanny could do by. looking at my baby in the crib to tell. me that like crawling maybe I don't know. around the corner or like talking maybe. around the corner? >> Yeah. for her specifically.

>> Definitely. Yeah, that's on the horizon. for us. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> And I think there is a real conviction. from the company in that this kind of. information will help parents sleep. better, have less anxiety, give them. this extra resource that is almost a. disadvantage to not have. And she even. imagines that parents will keep nanets. in their kids' bedroom to the age of 10. >> Wow. But we envision a world where. people will have their data from zero to.

100. And right now, you know, people. aren't really starting, kids aren't. really starting to wear Apple watches. and things like that until around age 10. for the most part. Sometimes a little. younger. Um, so we really think of that. 0 to 10 as kind of the place that we. live. >> Okay. Keeping cameras in a child's. bedroom till they're 10 years old. Maybe. some kids are totally fine with this, but I can also imagine some kids really. not liking that. and not liking being. surveiled and maybe that's not healthy. for them. I don't I don't know.

>> Yeah. I mean it it doesn't really happen. so much today. So total experiment. I. could see a lot of kids really not being. okay with this. But on the other hand, you know, the CEO of Nana is saying we. are going to keep this device in in my. kids' room for longer. >> Her own kid, >> her own kids. And so so let's see how it. goes. >> Okay. But what about like privacy issues. like irrespective of how the kid feels? Like what is Nanet saying that it's. doing with all that data that it's. collecting by having a camera in the. kids' room? >> Yeah. So this is a really big point. because obviously parents are are really.

careful about what they put around their. children. >> Understandably. >> Understandably. And so Nanet says that. it does not sell the data to anyone. else. It doesn't target ads against it. >> Not yet. >> Not yet. They say that they won't and. that the subscription fee that they're. charging customers is proof that the. customer and the baby like that is not. the product. They're charging that money. so they can offer all of these insights. and and information to the user. >> What's that phrase they say in. technology that when the product is.

free, you are the product and when it. costs something like a subscription that. you are not the product. So that sort of. makes sense to me what I understand. about selling data. >> Yeah, that's right. And that's that's. what the company would say here. Sabina, after you did this interview with the. CEO, obviously as a mother of two. children, did that help you weigh the. costbenefit analysis just about whether. you should have this in your own home? >> Yeah, it did help me see some of the. benefits and look at, you know, how. they're using this information, how it. could help me in the future. But, you. know, some people in my own life have.

also pointed out some of the drawbacks. and disadvantages of using this sort of. technology. Namely, my own mother, Madu. Mahashwari. So your own mother didn't. like this. What what were her. objections? >> Uh many. >> When you installed the app. [clears throat] on my phone, I was. shocked. You know, I am just like. horrified. But I guess I have to accept. I have to take the parents instruction. >> So the first time my mom watched my. daughter overnight, I installed the Nana.

app on her phone. >> It started sending me messages. Your. baby was tended. you know that time ago. the baby moved there you know I said my. god this is too much it was stressing me. now I'm looking at the monitor and. thinking god I have to watch this thing. I don't think I liked it I [music] don't. know how you guys put up with that. because. >> she was shocked by the constant flow of. information. >> she didn't understand why she was. getting these push notifications from.

from this app. >> one day I put it on my phone and my. phone battery died I didn't realize the. whole night was on. Maybe he was in. charge. In the morning I woke up and I. said, "Oh my god, what to have happened. to baby?" And I woke up and I I was like. charged in her into her room. I said, "Oh my god, the baby must be crying.". And know she was asleep. I probably. would have heard without that uh you.

know monitor. And it was such a shift from how she. used to put my two siblings and me to. sleep. [music]. >> So besides it being jarring and maybe. overly stimulating, did your mom have. like specific objections to the. information that she was getting or the. instructions that you were giving her. about this technology and how to use it? So my mom's of the camp that this kind. of information gave us a sense that we.

could and should control a baby's. environment to to really optimize the. sleep. >> What does that mean a little bit? Optimize the sleep. >> Yeah. So Nana actually studies the. optimal temperature that a baby can. sleep at. It's one of the studies. they're conducting right now. >> What is the optimal temperature for a. baby? >> Well, they believe it's between 68 and. 72°, but they're finding out for sure. >> Okay. But it's also kind of lore in the. the parenting world. I I think you would. probably find a lot of different sources. that tell you that the temperature has.

to be between 68 and 72°. And to my mom, this is a completely. crazy behavior. >> Who does sleep with the room. temperature? That's it is shocking. 68°. Oh my god. You must be kidding. Baby can. sleep in any kind of temperature. Even I. have seen in India growing up 120° 110°. the kids are sleeping. >> 120° mom [laughter]. >> at least 100° you know easy a baby slept. just fine so I think your mind has been.

conditioned by these monitors what the. temperature should be so this is where. you know uh this technology is teaching. you there certain things should be in a. certain ways but I don't believe in that. >> she really believes that babies can. sleep in all kinds of environments and. that you're bringing a baby into your. lifestyle and they will adjust and that. is just how parenting is. And my mom. thinks this kind of information feeds.

this unhealthy obsession among. modern-day working parents. Now oh my. god bath routine uh 7:00 or you know and. then you are on such a schedule even I. feel my feel oh my god I have to do all. these things then you have to you know. put them in a sack or you put them in. there you don't want to touch them once. you drop them in the crib that's it. >> it's all tied to these really strict. schedules for our kids and she's of the. view that you can't optimize a baby you. can't optimize a little human being.

>> as much as adults may be trying to optim. optimize every facet of our diets and. exercise and this and that. It's a baby. >> Babies are not robots. You still need to. go with the, you know, um, your. instinct, baby cue and a bit relaxed. [clears throat]. about the whole thing. >> I think she just sees all of this as an. unnecessary layer for what is perhaps. the most universal of human experiences, >> raising a child. >> Raising a child. >> Stephanie, you mentioned work and the.

idea that this technology helps working. parents. And I do want to point out that. I don't know how old your mother is, but. there are a lot more women in the. workforce now than a generation ago. And. we know that parenting. disproportionately falls to women very. often as opposed to men. But I do wonder. maybe in a little push back to your. mother whether this technology is. helping to balance out what is a gender. imbalance in parenting by allowing, for. example, both parents to sleep better at. night instead of perhaps just the dad.

>> Right. And and I think this is something. that came up a lot in my reporting. around this story is this technology. really appeals to a lot of folks. because, you know, they may not have a. great maternity or paternity leave and. they often have two working parents who. have certain schedules. And so, you. know, of course there's going to be this. desire to get the child to sleep at a. certain time, to have a schedule so that. you can make that puzzle of of life in, you know, 2026 in America work for you.

And I mean, it's true, my mom didn't. work when she had us, and she didn't. have to adhere to this sort of work. schedule while, you know, raising three. kids. But her bigger concern is, you. know, is our generation leaning so much. on technology that we're replacing some. of our human abilities, some of the. things that, you know, make us people. And I heard this concern echoed from a. pediatrician I spoke with as well. And. she said, you know, instead of tuning. into what your baby is trying to tell.

you, observing them yourself, learning. their little cues for when they're tired. or when they need something from you, are we relying ultimately too much on. apps and and technology and chat bots? And where does that go from here? >> [music]. >> And of course, you know, we've been. talking about babies, but this type of. data collection, sleep [music] scoring, optimization, these are all things that have been. happening with adults for some time now, and is only set to expand. With all of.

the advances we're now seeing with AI, we are in this new era of being. encouraged to rely on this technology. for some of the most personal decisions. we can make about our health and our. bodies. [music]. >> [music]. >> We'll be right back.

Okay, Sepus. So, so far we've only been. talking about tracking and analyzing. data for babies, but obviously a lot of. adults like to track their own data, right? Like wearables are a huge market. Lots of people listening to this podcast. probably use one or know somebody who. does. So, help me understand how big of. a market it is. Like, I wonder if you. have a way of quantifying it in some. way. >> Well, let me tell you, basically half of. Americans have one of these things that. are tracking our our health in some sort. of way. >> God, half of Americans.

>> That's right. Do you remember the. Fitbit? >> I do remember the Fitbit. That was the. thing that told you to take 10,000 steps. a day, right? Like people suddenly. bought Fitbits and now everybody was. talking about their steps. >> Yes. So that has given way to a. different world where now people are. wearing smartwatches, but they're also. wearing the Whoop, they're wearing the. Aura, they're wearing all of these. different devices. And they're way more. sophisticated than just counting your. steps. And it's interesting. I mean, Aura and Whoop are are companies that. could go public that have been valued in.

the many billions of dollars. Uh more. broadly, wearables. And this market is. is approaching a hundred billion dollars. according to some analysts. and more and. more people are using them to not just. track their activity but to get this AI. fueled advice on what they should do. >> Can you just give me an example of that? Like what are the actual functions on a. Whoop or an Aura Ring that are more. complicated or sophisticated that people. might actually want? >> Yeah, so I mean it's it's tracking your. sleep and actually funnily enough it.

gives you a sleep score the same as as. Nan now gives you for your baby. It can. give you really detailed feedback on. your exercise habits. And Whoop in. particular offers something called a. recovery score for its users every. morning. And it comes in three different. colors. Red, yellow, and green. >> And they say it's based on a bunch of. metrics. Stress, if you're feeling sick, how poorly you ate or how well you ate, how hard you worked out. And then they.

they shoot out this number that's. supposed to tell you how ready your body. is to take on the day. >> Wow. >> And just to be clear, you know, these. are consumer products, not medical. devices. So, this is a sort of label. that Whoop came up with, but its users. love it. Okay. But like, how does this. actually help you? Because I can imagine. that the advice this thing is giving you. is probably advice you kind of knew. already. Like, what is it doing that. common sense and the internet weren't. already doing? H Rachel, this is the.

lites perspective. [laughter]. >> Okay, so I mean to be fair, I don't own. one of these devices. Okay, >> I wear an Apple Watch. I use it more for. the timer. I use it kind of to keep a. loose eye on, you know, whether I. exercise or or moved or if I'm traveling. you, oh wow, like look how many steps I. made. But my husband recently started. wearing a Whoop. And so I've gotten kind. of a closer look at these devices and. how they can alter a person's habits. And I got to say, you know, doctors have.

been telling him to do this or that for. years, but now that Whoop tells him, >> he actually listens. >> Yes, he does. >> Oh my god. Wait, so what's that dynamic? Why is he listening to Whoop? What is it. telling him? >> So I wanted to talk to my husband for. this episode, but he refused. So I did. the next best thing and I decided to. interview the friend who got him into. the Whoop. >> You are are kind of whoop patient zero. in our household. >> That is um flattering, I guess you could. say. Okay, tell us about the friend. >> Yes, I.

>> So, our friend Kevin Hang is a trader. for a hedge fund and so probably more. than most people, he's obsessed with. data. >> It felt like something that would jive. with my own personality, kind of gifying. your health in a way. >> Last fall, he got a Whoop after a bunch. of his friends were talking up all of. these metrics that the Whoop collects. It feels like whenever you talk to. someone who also has a Whoop, that's the. single commonality of, oh, well, how old.

are you and how old does your Whoop. think you are? >> And one of the things that got him. hooked right away on this thing was. something called the Whoop age. >> Okay, what is a Whoop age? So, it's this. number that is such a good marketing. gimmick for this device. It's based on a. bunch of things. It's based on your. sleep performance. performance is such a. absurd word to use, but it is a common. word now for this. Um, it's based on. your resting heart rate, the amount of. activity you engage in every day. And.

Kevin, who is 37 at the time, did not. score so hot. What did he score? How old. was his Whoop age? >> My first Whoop age was actually 44, which was a bit of a shocking number. >> Said he was 44. >> Oh no, that's so much older. >> I don't think it's fair to put someone. in a whole different decade without. their permission. >> No. Why did he respond? >> It was a wakeup call for him and he made. some pretty big lifestyle changes as a. result way. And so I started waking up. regularly at about 5:00 a.m. on work. days to go to the gym to do 45 minutes.

of cardio every day. >> He started waking up an hour earlier. than usual to exercise before work. >> Kind of seeing on a day-to-day basis. what your recovery is, what your sleep. score is. It's kind of like a daily. report card of your health and wellbeing. and you know very motivating in that. way. >> He was really focused on his sleep and. recovery. >> and he's watching his diet. >> So if I eat clean and healthy then you. know the recovery score usually is a lot.

better whereas if I'm eating you know a. lot of fried food and a lot of high. sodium food the recovery score will be. lower. >> And what is his whoop age? >> Well about a year later his whoop age is. now 35. >> Congratulations Kevin. you're back in. your 30s. [laughter]. >> So, okay. So, if he went from a 44 year. old whoop age to 35, that's pretty. impressive if we are to believe that the. whoop age actually means something, >> right? Which is a significant caveat. here. But, you know, he does feel.

healthier and he's doing this in part. for his kids to be a more active dad and. to hopefully live longer eventually, too, because of these significant. lifestyle changes he made. That is so. interesting because I'm going to bet. that like your husband, he probably knew. that those changes would be good for his. health before he had a whoop and a whoop. age. And yet it took the Whoop and the. Whoop age to actually influence his. behavior. >> Yeah, that's right. And I think that's. similar to some of what the Nanet CEO. was pushing around the company and the.

sort of specificity of the data that. they offer and the recommendations. tailored to your child. the Whoop was. tracking him specifically. I think that. the advice then that he got from this. app and from this product felt really. meaningful because it was tailored to. his activities and and all the. information he'd been sort of feeding. the device over a couple of weeks. And I. think that's the difference in why this. advice might feel more powerful.

>> That actually makes a lot of sense when. you think about the fact that like just. as an example, people pay personal. trainers, right? And it's not. necessarily because they don't know what. the exercises are or that they need. somebody to like make sure their posture. is correct, they don't hurt themselves. A lot of the times it's just if you pay. somebody, you will actually show up to. the gym. So, it sort of sounds like. there's something about getting tailored. specific information that makes you. think like, "Oh, I really got to do. something." As opposed to just hearing. like people should eat more fruits and. vegetables. >> Yeah, I think that's right. And it was.

seeing Kevin change his habits and talk. about the Whoop and his Whoop age that. convinced my husband to join the sort of. the cult around this product. >> You're kind of answering my question. here. How do you feel about him joining. the cult? Like does he talk about it. incessantly? His own Whoop age now. >> Well, I think the weirdest thing is that. Whoop has really entered the chat of our. relationship. If we are going out with. friends, let's say we have a great. evening, maybe we've had a couple. cocktails, you know, the next day he's. sort of lamenting, oh man, like drinking. is never a good idea. Look at my.

numbers. Uh kind of similarly, if you. have a decadent meal or if sleep didn't. go great one night, I'm then left. looking at his Whoop recovery score. He's opening the app and showing me and. it kind of gives me anxiety. I'm like, "Oh my god, his score is not very good.". >> [laughter]. >> Now you're worrying about his Whoop. score. This sounds like such a bummer. It sounds like such a buzzkill. >> I mean, well, it adds this like layer of. reality to, okay, oh my gosh, like we we. didn't sleep great. We didn't eat great.

We had a little too much fun last night. and and here are the numbers to show for. it. But on the flip side, when you get a. great night of sleep. >> or you eat very well or you've had some. great habits, >> the Whoop's positive feedback feels like. a reward, >> a blessing, if you will. And I think. that's what they're going for. >> It sounds like Whoop is basically just. wagging its finger at you. >> Yeah, but with really tailored metrics. and data.

>> Oh, great. [laughter] How fun. You know, I can't help but notice though, SNA, that these two stories that you told me. today, even though they involve people. who really love their data, whether it's. like you and the nanet and your kid or. your husband, it also feels like there's. some kind of trade-off because like. somebody in these stories is getting. kind of annoyed by this, whether it's. your mother or maybe even you. Is that. how you see it? I mean, I think there is. this tension right now between people.

who sort of subscribe to this data. making their lives better and being. worth collecting and being the way of. the future and those who say, you know, what's the point? Like, do we need any. of this? >> Should we brick our phones and unplug. and do this less? >> And I think it's a tension that, you. know, exists in our society at large. And I'm really curious to see if these. companies who are trafficking in this. world are right and that this is the way.

of the future and that you know this. conversation will seem trit when we all. have libraries of data from zero to 100. and it feels too like this is coming at. a time when we're just learning about. how AI can be used to interpret all of. this information. We know that AI of. thrives on data and here we are. collecting reams and reams of data. around how we breathe in the case of a.

baby but also walk, move, eat, sleep. You what kinds of information. recommendations will we get from all of. that? How could this affect us as we. age? I mean right now one thing that. really struck me as I was researching. this I I talked to a researcher who had. been studying people using wearables and. all of these smartwatches and aura rings. and whoops and she was saying that what. they have found largely is the people. optimizing their wellness are those that.

are already well. >> which made me laugh because it did make. me think about a lot of the people in my. own life who are using this technology. but you know on the other hand there are. some pretty amazing breakthroughs that. some of these wearables have come to. around identifying early onset. Parkinson's or different things related. to the heart. And so as people live. longer, have more of this information, who knows, maybe some of this data could. be much more meaningful than just a. sleep score or how you should exercise.

one day or another. I want to come back to something that. you said earlier that I have just been. thinking about this entire conversation. that I think is so interesting, which is. this idea that all of this even given. all of these benefits that we are losing. some part of our intuition and our. ability to like listen to our instincts. because we are living in an age right. now where like one of the dominant. stories is is AI in some ways taking. away from our humanity. And I just sort.

of wonder like how you as a person who. is covering this and living this and. using this, how are you weighing all of. those benefits that you just mentioned. and all of those unknown benefits. potentially against what your mom is. concerned about, right? That this is. just like making us less of what makes. us people. >> Yeah, I think that's the big question. here. And I feel a lot of concern around. that. I mean, is technology dulling our. instincts? our senses really and and.

that's why I was so interested in this. subject around babies and baby monitors. because to me becoming a parent felt. universal like I was engaging in. something ancient something humans have. been doing literally since the beginning. of humans and here I was being presented. with all of these new tools in which to. do this thing that people have been. doing forever and you know what did that. mean for for me for people like me for.

generations around us. [music]. I think all of this technology raises. the question, are we giving up something. meaningful, something [music]. super human, something very us when we. engage with it, when we turn to it, when. we outsource decisions to it? And I [music] see with the growth of. these technologies, with the ambitions. of these companies, these are questions. that we will all be grappling with. increasingly [music] in the future.

[music]. Sapna Mashwari, thank you so much for. joining us. Thanks for having me. >> You can read more from Sapna Mahwari and. all of our business reporters on the New. York Times app. [music] If you don't. already have the app, we wanted to let. you know that if you download it right. now, you'll [music] get access to all of. our journalism free for one month. So, give it a try.

[music]. We'll be right back. [music] Here's what else you need to. know today. President Trump told the UN. General Assembly in New York that he had. a decision to make on Iran [music]. to strike a deal with Tran or quote. annihilate the Islamic Republic. >> Do I drive them into hell with no chance. of survival and no hope of future.

greatness or generations? [music]. >> His threat amid a defense of the war he. launched alongside Israel in February. came as allies have begun to openly. question whether the United States. remains a credible partner. [music]. And the Trump administration has ejected. more than 750,000 [music]. people from the Affordable Care Act. insurance marketplaces. Vice President. JD Vance announced on Tuesday, [music]. claiming that many were receiving. premium subsidies they did not qualify.

for and that some people were not even. real. >> We're actually making sure that the. people receiving Obamacare [music]. subsidies are actually entitled to. receive them. Amazingly, we weren't. doing that before. Now, >> the move is Vance's latest attempt to. rein [music] in what he sees as fraud in. the federal healthare system. >> [music]. >> Today's episode was produced by Diana. Wyn and Alex Stern [music] with help. from Ricky Netski and edited by Lisa. Chow. It contains music by Marian.

Lozano, Rowan [music] Nemisto, and Dan. Powell and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Wonderly. [music]. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel. Abrams. See you tomorrow.