Hamas Took Her Son

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. daily when Hamas attacked Israel 2 weeks. ago they took 200 hostages back with. them into the Gaza Strip including. grandparents and children as young as 9. months old it was one of the largest. mass abductions in recent. history now the fate of those hostages. is at the center of a deepening crisis.

in the Middle East and a looming ground. Invasion into Gaza today a conversation. with the mother of one of. them it's Friday October. [Music]. 20th I called Rachel Goldberg for the. the first time last Tuesday 3 days after.

the attack on October. 7th hi hi Rachel how are you doing well. are you a mother I'm. not well I'm sure you've had a mother I. have so you can imagine what she would. be going through if something happened. to. you yeah so that's how I'm doing.

my name is Rachel Goldberg I'm. 53 and I am in. Jerusalem so my son hers Goldberg Poland. is currently missing he's been missing. since he attended the music festival. that was in the southern part of. Israel and and he was there Saturday.

morning when the terrorist event. happened. there we received two text messages from. him at. 8811 and that's the last that we've. heard of. him can you tell me about your son so. hirsh well he's the perfect son for me. there's a lot of him that it's the good. parts of me.

um he just turned 23 last week on. October. 3rd so he was born in Berkeley and when. he was going into second grade our. family moved to. Jerusalem um he's super bright very. curious a voracious reader and in love. with travel he's had Wonder Love since.

he was a little boy to the point where. he would read atlases and he'd get to. the end and he'd start over and get to. the end and start over and he would. memorize every country in the world. along with every Capital population. elevation just obsessed with travel so. for his bar mitzvah he asked for only. atlases globes and maps. wow.

and the other thing he's passionate. about is music festivals specifically. and I think he just felt like he was. going to a fun music festival here and. it ended in the worst way anybody could. imagine so Friday night we had this nice. meal with our family friends and we. kissed him goodbye and he was in a great. mood and we had had a great time and uh.

that's the last time we saw him and he. in honor shapira his best friend met up. and they went down south where this. Festival was and um you. know both of them are um unaccounted for. and did you hear from him once he got. there what was the next thing that. happened Rachel no the next thing that. happened so on The Jewish Sabbath I had. don't use my phone and.

so he left and the next morning my. husband had left for synagogue at 7:30. in the morning and I was sitting having. a cup of tea and sometime close to 8 we. heard bomb Sirens going off in Jerusalem. so I quickly came downstairs and woke up. both of my daughters who were still. sleeping so that we could get into our. bomb shelter which we have in our. apartment so we went into our bomb.

shelter and then we waited for the all. clear you wait 10 minutes and if nothing. else happens you can come out and the. even though I'm not you know I don't use. my phone on Shabbat in cases of. emergency of course you use your phone. and I thought well my son is somewhere. and I don't know where and I'm turning. on my phone to make sure he's okay and. when I turned on my phone two texts came. in both at 811 and the first text said I.

love you and the second text said I'm. sorry and immediately I knew something. terrible happened because first of all. he would never just randomly write at. 811 in the morning I love you and the. I'm sorry immediately to me I know him. and he knows me so well and I my. interpretation instantly was I'm sorry.

because whatever is happening is going. to cause you tremendous pain and. tremendous worry that was my first. thought and as it turns out he was right. God. Rachel. yeah immediately I called him and it. rang and rang and rang and rang and he. didn't answer so I wrote a text are you. okay and he didn't answer and 5 minutes. later I said let me know you're okay and. then 10 minutes later I wrote I'm.

leaving my phone on let me know you're. okay but those were three unanswered. they've haven't been answered so we. started uh one of my daughters the older. daughter and I started to feverishly try. to figure out you know where exactly was. he sending this from and my daughter. sent me a video that had been going. around from this music festival with. people screaming and you could hear.

shooting and she saidis this the. festival he's at like is this where he. is and the truth is I didn't know so I. took a screenshot of that and I sent it. to their other friend and I asked I said. and honor here and he wrote back yes so. I immediately knew they were there and. we started watching the news and then. all of a sudden it was pandemonium. everywhere I mean complete massacres. taking place in all these different.

kibes that are right on the border I. mean it was complete it was. war and so we were frantic and we were. in a panic but his friend had already. made a missing poster that was of her. and honor and saying they were at the. thing do you have any information did. you see them and he had already posted. that on all these social media places. that I as a 53-year-old mother know.

nothing about so it was very very. helpful that Yan their third friend was. doing this and it was through that that. a few hours later probably around noon. that we've got a picture from inside of. a bomb. shelter and we could see on the side. sort of Midway on the left side we could. see hch in profile and where the door. was and it's just a normalized door we.

could see. honor at first we were like oh my gosh. thank God because this means they. weren't killed at the festival because. we already had heard there were scores. if not hundreds of people we now know. it's close to 300 people were killed at. this festival and what we Now understand. from eyewitnesses that we ended up. talking to is that H and honor and. another boy named. Yad and they had driven down together.

and they got in the car to drive away. and then the sirens started going off. which meant there were more incoming. Rockets from Gaza and when Rockets are. are falling you get off the road and you. get into shelter so they had stopped the. car to get into the shelter and there. were you know five other cars that also. pulled over and it was also people from. the music festival and they all ran in. together they weren't friends but I mean. they had all just been at this event.

together so at first we were so happy. that we were like oh that's wonderful. they're in a bomb shelter they're safe. and in the picture they don't look. panicked like there's people that have. sunglasses on their heads and someone's. re looking at their phone they don't. look like they're in panic they look. like they're Israeli young people who. are hanging out in a bomb shelter. because yeah yeah maybe there's like. some sort of siren going off because.

maybe something's happening outside but. then we realized when was this taken and. why haven't we heard from him and we. were making up all sorts of excuses oh. his phone must have died or when they. were running away he dropped his phone. so that's why he didn't answer me what. we subsequently found out is that around. a. 8:30 the terrorists came to the door of. the bomb shelter and apparently started.

throwing grenades hand grenades into the. shelter which is like fish in a barrel. you know there's 30 people smashed in. there yeah apparently I don't know I. think someone told me at some point you. know you usually have 10 to 15 people in. those so you had this massive pack group. of people and on air was closest to the. door he apparently from all accounts was. the complete. hero he quickly because you only from.

the time a pin on a grenade is cold you. have four and a half seconds until it. explodes and he was quickly picking them. up and throwing them back and they were. spraying machine gun fire into there so. it was craz and horrible and what we. know now is many of those young people. were killed many were severely extremely. wounded. and a few were wounded but you know not.

horribly and some of them pretended to. be dead and what we did get eyewitness. accounts of is that uh hersh's arm below. the elbow was blown. off and I think he must have been in. complete shock because we heard that he. made a. tourniquet he didn't cry out he didn't. lose.

Consciousness then um the terrorists. came in uh and at gunpoint said everyone. who can stand up stand up and walk out. and six of them walked out including H. it was for young men and two young. women they were put on a pickup truck. and they were driven off by these. terrorists and that was around. 9:00 and the police actually let us know.

that the last time that her's phone was. uh you know how they can trace phones um. where they were last seen was on the. border with. Gaza now we have no proof that you know. maybe someone stole his phone maybe you. know it doesn't necessarily mean. anything the assumption is that they are.

all all six of those kids are. kidnapped and um none of the parents. that we've spoken to of those six kids. we none of us have had any sort of word. from our children sadly we do have there. was a girl who played Dead who was next. to her and there was a young man who. shared a lot of information and there. was a another young woman who was much. more able to share with us the girl. who's right next to her she so. horribly traumatized that it's even hard.

for her still today she can't really. speak so we don't have confirmation you. know a lot because there's such. pandemonium still here so that's uh you. know where we are and what we want now. is uh first of all we want to really. make sure that hirs has his arm tended. to he really needs medical treatment. immediately. urgently and.

obviously what we really want is we want. him to be sitting next to me right now. so. you're basically just waiting patiently. for. now yeah I mean you know making noise. we're making noise cuz at this point we. feel like you know there was a decision. in the beginning in those first 48 Hours. when we could hardly function because it. was you know so shocking and new and.

press was calling and I was like why. would we go to the Press like we need to. get our son back why are we going to the. Press let's talk talk to the police. let's talk to the you know the. government and then when we heard that. his arm was blown off and we realized. he's probably bleeding to death so you. know what let's talk to everybody and. that's still where we are because you. know no matter how this ends we need to. know that we ran to the end of the Earth. for. him.

Rachel thank you so much for taking the. time to talk to us today I know this is. really painful for you and I I really. appreciate you taking the time to help. us understand just what. happened yeah thanks a lot Sabrina take. care bye. bye.

after the break I call Rachel back to. find out what she's learned about her. [Music]. son we'll be right. back hello Rachel hi it's Sabrina from. the. daily Hi how are you. I'm okay how are you.

shitty yeah yeah that's my new answer. it's shorter where am I catching you. right now I am just walking downstairs. so that I can hear you without you know. the whole uh Team upstairs working who's. the team the team is this like. wonderful group of people who from. Saturday October 7th have been here. working to help find H and find. strategist to figure out ideas and how.

to get you know the word out around the. world that this thing happened so we. work about 20 hours a day and sleep is. for the week Rachel I'm talking to you. on Thursday evening catch me up on what. they've been able to piece together we. talked shortly after H was taken what's. surfaced since the last time we spoke um. actually there's a couple things the. first thing is that we got a more.

specific time on his phone and location. it it was deeper in Gaza we had been. told it was on the board was actually in. Gaza and the first signal from within. Gaza was at 10:25 so he got there. earlier than we had thought I don't know. what that tells us but it's just new. information the other thing that I. thought was really interesting is that. the young woman who was next to her she. was able to come to my house and.

actually talk to me and she told us. something that we hadn't known which was. that when everyone was running into this. bomb shelter that there was also a bin. man who I guess we think he was a guard. for the fields across the road at the. kibuts across the road this bin man ran. in with them and as Hamas was coming. closer and they could hear them. screaming and shouting he said to the. kid kids inside stay in here don't make.

any noise and he went outside and in. Arabic he said to them like hello how. are you Salam alaykum or something and. he said oh don't worry we're all Muslim. here it's just my family we're hiding. from the Rockets but we're all. Muslim he was trying to save them and. they beat him they may have killed him. she didn't know you know she just knew. she could hear them beating him. but there was something about that story.

that made me so. happy why did that make you happy. because it's Humanity being. Humane you know this is this problem we. have right it's US versus them or it's. black and white or whatever it is it's. not he could have come out and said I'm. a Muslim there are Jews in there. right but he didn't I mean I hope he's. alive but just the fact that. like this man tried to save them and may.

have paid with his life we don't. know it just gave me hope that maybe. there's still you know a shred of you. know hope in the world that people will. do the right thing even when it's. scary what do you know about some of the. other people hsh was with that day you. mentioned someone named. honor oh honor beautiful honor. We buried onor on Friday they identified.

his body and um we know for a fact and. his parents know as well that the eight. kids who are now home are home because. of. honor the woman who came the other day. to tell the story about the Muslim man. she also said we were counting the. grenades hand grenades as they were. throwing them in and she said and he. threw eight out she said but three got.

in and she said the damage that three. did she said even if four had come in no. one would have walked out of there. alive and you know we had stood in the. back we didn't want to take away from. this boys funeral but we felt we needed. to pay our respects so we came and we. went toward the back we didn't sit you. know up where everybody else was but. when the funeral was over we wanted to. go by and just extend our condolences. just to the mom and dad to let them know.

that we were there and as we got closer. to them his mom had just swooned and. they had gotten her a chair and there. was a medic there trying to like give. her some sort of oxygen or something and. then the father saw us coming and he. said to her it's hsh's parents and she. jumped out of her chair and the four of. us were hugging and sobbing you know in. Israel we're not afraid to let it out. like there's no no holding back and we. were sobbing and sobbing and everyone.

around us was screaming out you know it. wasn't this like demure tears and she. started screaming out he's coming home. he's coming home and she screamed to. everybody everyone has to pray for hers. to come home and part of it is that you. know she loves us and HS and she wants. herh to come home and part of it is that. she has to feel like honor saved another. life the only condolence the only.

comfort that she can get is that these. people walked out because of what he. did so that was an awful funeral to. attend. and also to see all of these Graves of. these young people all of them you know. it looks like beds like it just was like. heaps heaps of dirt and flowers on all.

these heaps of dirt fresh dirt and it. was. just. [Music]. sickening what did it feel like to come. home after the funeral Rachel was any. part of you worried that you could be in. those shoes as well oh there's not been. one day I don't think there's been one. hour. that I haven't thought he's dead you.

know like we have to keep going. forward until we know that's not true. but HS may have died 13 days ago and I. don't know about it he may have died an. hour. ago like he may have died five days ago. he may have died on my birthday last. week I don't know right so it's really. it's just a Twilight Zone of an. existence that is so unfamiliar it's. like walking on another planet what is.

that planet it's like living in a. completely parallel universe because I. feel so close in proximity. to this place I. knew you know and I see these people and. these friends and I'm you know hugging. people and I'm very very close to them. and I can smell them and I can see their. pores and their skin but I'm different. I'm there's like a film between us.

because I'm not in their world like I'm. super close but I'm not in their world. and the only time that I. feel that I'm in a world that's familiar. to me is when I'm with you know last. night I went to an event that uh a few. different families of American hostages. were meeting at and when I'm with those. people we all know that parallel you. Universe we're all in that place and.

this one woman and I every time we see. each other we hug each other and we feel. such a closeness which is this like sick. grotesque perverse closeness but it's. that we're both in this. same. devastating and unknown and. unfamiliar. Universe Rachel has the Israeli. government been helpful to you has it. met with you and. loved ones of hostages what's it been.

doing they have assigned us two. different people to be resources for us. and they've been checking in each day. but I think right now you know it's a. very emotional time in the country and I. don't know you know you just have to. kind. of keep busy keep trying to do whatever. you can do to save the person you're. trying to save and keep going. forward do you feel satisfied with their.

help um I do in that I don't know what. they could. do Rachel since we last talked Israel. has taken steps to retaliate against. Hamas you know it stepped up air strikes. on Gaza and there have been civilian. casualties knowing how much your son and. you and thousands of other families have. suffered because of this Hamas attack.

how are you viewing the retaliation on. Gaza and what the government of Israel. is is doing right now you know is it the. right thing to do knowing that there. might be so many civilian casualties. knowing that your son is there how are. you seeing this right I mean I know that. there are plenty of innocent civilians. in Gaza I know that I know that the. people who were killed on October 7th. also were innocent.

civilians and I understand that Israel. is saying we can't allow that to ever. happen again and I am hopeful that the. innocent people uh and I'm not talking. only about the you know hostages but. there are innocent you know 2 million. Palestinian people who are not in Hamas. who are also trapped in Gaza and I hope. that that it's to a minimum the the.

agony and suffering is kept to a minimum. but Israel has got to defend. itself Rachel on the point of Civilian. casualties in Gaza I spoke to a. 23-year-old um in Gaza over the weekend. who was very worried about being killed. in the air strikes and and it struck me. he was about hs's age and I wonder as a. mother how you see the civilian.

casualties in. Gaza is that upsetting to you is that. something that comes into your mind how. do you where do you put that it does it. does it absolutely does and what I would. say to that 23 yearold if he's um. listening now is try to go find. hirs let him use your phone and let's. get you both out of. there cuz I care for anyone who is an. innoc. civilian who's swept up and being held.

hostage and it might be the Palestinian. gazin kid that you spoke. to Rachel this is maybe kind of a a. painful question but I wanted to ask it. Hamas is committed to the destruction of. the state of Israel you know it's. non-negotiable to them right what would. you want Hamas if I may ask it like this. what would would you want Hamas to. understand about you as a Jewish person.

as an Israeli in this moment what do you. want them to understand about who you. are well I'm not really sure that. there's anything that I want them to. understand about what I am I would. really like to understand more about who. they are I want to understand them more. now if the understanding is they're. saying I want you. dead it's very hard for me to meet them. halfway on.

that obviously there's a tremendous. amount of pain. and Agony. behind a group of people who want the. destruction completely of another people. you know and I'm not sure how you work. through that or how you try to talk to. that so I don't know that there's. anything that I can really you know say. to Hamas I don't think Hamas is any. interested in hearing anything I have to. say but I am really interested in.

hearing what they have to say I really. am and what would you want to understand. about them Rachel you mentioned the pain. and the agony potentially somewhere. behind. everything what would you want to. know well I just want to know like what. first of all what's this method how does. the world become sympathetic when you. have elderly women and 9-month old. babies with you like I want I want to.

understand I really want them to say to. me like what is it exactly that they. want to happen is it simply that they. don't want any Jews living in Israel is. it that they don't want any Jews living. you know like I want to really. understand what's what's the goal and. what you know are there options I don't. get it I would like to get it Rachel to. the point of of you being curious and. wanting to listen you know there's a.

very emotional debate playing out in. Israel and here in the United States as. well about history and and context in in. this attack and I think to many people. you know it's kind of an outrageous. thing to even think about people feel. you know that atrocity can never be. explained and somehow you know bringing. in the context is offensive to people. but I guess I'm wondering how how you. think about it you know you're in the. middle of this in such a personal way do.

you. see there being context here that is. important to understand how do you see. that well this idea that that anyone. could be standing up to try to. justify what was happening in these. kutes that were in any. way if you're trying to justify that you. have to honestly say to yourself you. know maybe I need to uh take my compass. in to be fixed.

because you can't you cannot if people. are truly okay or saying well they. deserved it because then we then we have. big big problems big big problems as as. the human. race and when I see footage of. Palestinian children getting killed I am. crying I am not saying they deserve that. never never in my life have I said that. and I pray to God never in my life will.

I say that and so when I hear people. saying that it's concerning we're in a. we're in a frightening place and I would. I would love for to see some light on. the horizon um but right now at least. where I am it's very very dark and I'm. just you know running out of time and. hoping that I I will see my son again. again. [Music].

alive we're looking for a teeny tiny. molecule in a universe of. hyack and that molecule is named H. goldber Poland and I want him home with. [Music]. me Rachel thank you so. much thank you. [Music].

on Thursday night during a rare address. from the Oval Office in which he urged. Congress to pass an aid package for. Ukraine and for Israel President Biden. spoke about the hostages in. Gaza as I told the families of Americans. being held captive by Hamas we're. pursuing every Avenue to bring their. loved ones home as president there is no. higher priority for me than the safety. of American Self.

[Music]. hostage in all 13 Americans went missing. in the October 7th attack it is not. clear how many of those are in captivity. in. Gaza we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today House Republicans unable to elect.

a speaker for 16 straight days engaged. in bitter infighting on Thursday about. how to move forward during an emotional. private meeting they rejected a plan to. empower an interim speaker to lead the. chamber until the end of the year that. left them with few options the. Republican nominee for speaker. representative Jim Jordan of Ohio has. failed to win two rounds of voting and. appears unlikely to win in a third round. nevertheless Jordan said that he would.

push for another. vote and Sydney Powell a prominent. member of Donald Trump's legal team. pleaded guilty on Thursday to trying to. overturn Trump's 2020 election loss in. Georgia the guilty plea which allows. Powell to avoid jail time and a criminal. trial requires her to testify against. her codefendants in the case including. potentially Trump.

himself today's episode was produced by. Lindsey Garrison Claire tennis and. Shannon Lynn with help from Ricky nety. it was edited by MJ Davis Lynn with help. from Michael benois contains original. music by Marian Lozano Dan Powell and. Rowan Nimo and was engineered by Chris. Wood our theme music is by Jim brunberg. and Ben Lanser of wonderly special. thanks to Jeffrey.

[Music]. [Music]. Gelman that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina Tavern see you on. [Music]. Monday.