Elbows Up: Canada’s Response to Trump’s Trade War

This is daily producer Michael Simon. Johnson. I am in downtown. Toronto because things are getting real. here in Canada. Okay, Anna Holy here, producer on the. daily. I have just touched down in. Winnipeg in Manitoba, Canada. It feels. like the vibe is changing and I am here. to do a vibe check. How would you describe how you're. feeling about what's going on between.

the US and Canada right now? Canadians. have always been known as nice people. We turn the other cheek. We've been kind. of backed into a corner now by your. president. America, Donald Trump. How. can American people back this. man? I I don't buy any more USA. products. Just buy Canadian goods. I. will not buy anything from America. In. fact, I've told anybody and everybody I. possibly can, don't ever go down to.

America. Don't. I served in our Canadian Navy, and. nothing really takes me more than when. somebody looks down their nose at us. I'm very, very proud to be a Canadian. We were born Canadian, and we will die. Canadian. Who do you blame for all of this? Who do. we blame? the American citizens. I don't. think we'll ever be the same as friends, neighbors. They want everything from us. Yo, without us, they can't survive.

regardless. From the New York Times, I'm Kim. Severson and this is the daily. A gloves. off trade war with America is uniting. Canadians from all corners of the. country against its southern neighbor. Today, my colleague Matina Steves Gridf. on what that trade war means for the. future of the relationship and how this. fight is shifting the country's. politics, its culture, and its place on. the global. stage. It's Thursday, March.

[Music]. 13th. Matina, you've been traveling. across Canada reporting on what's turned. out to be a very big news week. Thank. you for taking the time to come on the. show. Thank you so much for having me, Kim. So coming into his presidency, I. think there was an expectation that. Trump might make waves on matters of. international diplomacy, but I don't. think many of us had make Canadians. really, really angry on their bingo. card. Oh, totally. I mean, I took up my.

posting as Canada bureau chief in August. and I thought this was going to be a. good posting for my work life balance. Little did I know. I mean, it's been a. really extraordinary stretch since the. election for sure. So, let's rewind a. little and just remind me of how we got. here. You know, we're in a place where. Canadians who, you know, to many. Americans seem very, very nice have. turned downright hostile and find. themselves in such a political. vice. Sure. I mean, I think the first.

signs that something was going to go. wrong emerged in early December when. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau flew to. Mara Lago to sit down for dinner with. President Elect at the time, Trump. And. the dinner, you know, was feeded as a. success for Trudeau to be able to get. FaceTime with Trump. And it seemed. cordial enough. There were like photos. of everyone smiling and jokes. And. tonight we're getting some new details.

about that Trump Trudeau dinner from two. people who were at the table. But it. does sound like that's when Trump sort. of started raising complaints about the. US relationship with Canada. Fox News is. reporting that Trudeau warned Trump that. his tariff proposal would kill the. Canadian economy to which Trump replied. that Canada could then become the 51st. state and that Trudeau could be. governor. and made the supposed joke of. Canada becoming the 51st state of the.

United States. That meeting did not. appear to go well. The Canadian. delegation brushed that off at the time, but it would come back to haunt them. Right. I think a lot of us did and no. one knew if it was one of the many. things that he says that you don't know. whether to take seriously or not. For. sure. And I think that at first that was. generally seen as like a troll. Mhm. A. lot of people thought it was quite. personal to Trudeau because we knew. Trump doesn't like Trudeau much from his.

first presidency, but I think that we. started realizing it is probably. something more ominous when Trump gave a. press conference on January 7th. Uh so. thank you all for coming. We'll take a. couple of questions. Yeah. and our own. colleague David Sanger of the New York. Times asked him about his claims on. Greenland, which is an autonomous area. of Denmark and the Panama Canal and. Canada. Can you assure the world that as.

you try to uh get control of these. areas, you are not going to use military. or economic coercion? No. And he. specifically asked, are you going to use. force to annex these places? And Trump. said economic force. economic force. because Canada and the United States. that would really be something. So by. late January, it becomes clear President. Trump is being serious about imposing. tariffs on all Canadian and Mexican. goods being imported into the United.

States. I mean, you have to remember. Canada and the United States are each. other's closest trading partners. The. United States is the destination for. about 80% of goods that Canada exports, including, for example, its oil and gas. And so this is a core existential. economic relationship. And those tariffs. that President Trump is threatening to. slap on Canadian goods, they have the. potential to derail the Canadian.

economy. Right. And we've talked on the. show before about the threat of tariffs. and the way Trump justified them at the. outset is that he would be using them as. a way of forcing our neighboring. countries to reduce both migrant traffic. and drug traffic from coming into the. US. But these are not seems to me major. problems at the border of Canada. So was. there a sense among the Canadian. government that this was about something. else? Absolutely. And I think where we.

really came to see this, and it took. some time for the reporting to come. together, is over the course of two. phone calls that President Trump and. Prime Minister Trudeau held on February. 3rd. So what happens on those calls is. that President Trump lays down for Prime. Minister Trudeau a number of grievances. that he has with the economic and trade. relationship between the two countries. These were generally well-known problems. or concerns on the American side. The US.

wanted better access to the Canadian. dairy market and the banking sector. But. then President Trump raised something. much more fundamental. He tells Trudeau. and apparently he's reading off a memo. according to our sources. He tells. Trudeau, "And I don't like the border. treaty between our two countries. This. is a 1908 treaty that demarcates the. boundary between the two nations. And. President Trump just tells Prime.

Minister Trudeau he thinks it's not. valid and should be revisited. He also. tells him he doesn't like the way the. two countries share water. We know. President Trump is really interested in. Canada's water. He thinks Canada has too. much of it. And he also raises to. Trudeau that he wants to revisit water. agreements between the two countries. And so suddenly we go from I don't like. the way we trade and how our economies. are integrated to nice country you got. there. Shame if something happened to. it. I mean this seems like an. extraordinary moment. Here is Trump on.

the phone with Trudeau essentially. saying I don't respect your borders or. your sovereignty. How is the Canadian. government reacting to all this at this. point? It was shock and anger and panic. stations after that phone call and. Trudeau makes it quite clear that we're. going to hit back on US products with. our own tariffs if this threat. materializes and becomes reality. And I. think this is a good point to remind.

people Trudeau is going through his last. weeks in office. M he has said he's. going to resign and we're expecting him. to be out of government by the end of. March. And so he takes this quite. aggressive stance even though he's. almost out of government. And. now as Canadians face from our neighbor. an existential challenge, an economic. crisis, Canadians are showing exactly.

what we are made of. And he gives one. important speech when we still think. these tariffs are going to be leveled. against Canada. Freedom is not a given. Even. Canada is not a given. None of those. happen by accident. None of them will. continue without effort. sort of quite. emotionally. He says, "We didn't ask for.

this fight, but we will stand up for our. country. We're a country that will be. diplomatic when we can, but fight when. we must. Elbows up.". And I think that's a speech that really. galvanizes people. Elbows up, folks. Elbows up time. It. means we're about to fight. They say. elbows up, borrowing a term from hockey. and showing that they want to defend. their country. Ladies and gentlemen,

Canada will never bend. We will never. kiss the gangsters ring. The public is. really reacting very organically. War is. officially on. So if you're Canadian now. more than ever, it's so important to be. shopping Canadian products. We're seeing. buy Canadian signs. Grocerers are. putting up flags to tell consumers which. products are made in Canada so that they. can prefer them over American products. Have a coffee. It is not folders. I'm. done with folders. It is now Canadian.

coffee. I mean it was remarkable to. watch this anger become a visible thing. seeing anti-Americanist feelings fment. and we start hearing something I mean. truly. [Music]. remarkable Canadians booing the American. national anthem in hockey games. And. while we're on the topic of hockey, folks are even angry with Gretzky who's.

like a national hero here. He's like a. symbol. Wayne Gretzky, the big Canadian. hockey hero. Right. Absolutely. Well, also a close friend of Donald Trump. And. so he suddenly has this fall from grace. and Canadians are treating him like a. traitor. So these feelings are just. really brewing are very powerful. They're finding expression in various. ways across Canadian society. This is. not like a minority. [Music].

situation. I don't really want to play. Canada's therapist here, but what's. behind the reaction? Is it defiance? Is. it betrayal? I mean, what do you think. is unifying the Canadians at this point? I mean, I think it's all of the above. It's anger. It's betrayal. betrayal by a. friend hurts so much more. And from the. political elite of the country all the. way down to the street and ordinary.

Canadians, the nation is going through a. range of emotions, anger, fear, insecurity, and I think it goes beyond. being just a moment. It has the. potential to alter the course of. Canadian history. And we're already. seeing the first sign of. [Music]. that. We'll be right back.

Matina, you were telling us that what's. happening in Canada in response to the. trade wars and to the intense rhetoric. coming from the Trump administration was. beginning to change Canada in some. extremely significant ways that really. have long-term. implications. Can you tell me what you. mean by that? Well, Kim, back in January. when this problem was gathering pace,

Justin Trudeau was resigning. His party, the Liberal Party, who have been in. power for nearly 10 years, were facing. dismal polls. They were 20 plus. percentage points behind the opposition, the Conservatives led by Pierre Pierv. And in the federal elections looming, it. was sort of a foregone conclusion that. the conservatives were going to win. Piev was going to be the new prime.

minister. He had these ideological and. stylistic affiliations to the MAGA. movement and the sort of more right-wing. populist. movement. And that was kind of what was. going to happen in Canadian politics. But things started to rapidly change. just as Trump escalated his menacing. rhetoric about Canadian sovereignty and. went ahead with his tariff threats. Something I mean truly remarkable.

happens. And I spoke to pollsters. One. of them really a really seasoned. pollster told me that he's never seen. this in his entire career. we go from, you know, the Liberal Party's dead and. they're going to be going into political. exile for a long, long time to this. liberal revival, the anti- US, anti-Trump sentiment is basically doing. huge favors to the liberal party, even. rehabilitating the image of Justin.

Trudeau to a certain extent, who was. loathed to the extent that he had to. resign in early January. Right? And so. it sets the scene for a stunning and. pretty rapid reversal of fortunes for. the Liberal Party as it goes into a. leadership race to elect its new leader, the person who's going to replace Justin. Trudeau as party chief and as prime. minister. So what happens? Well, the.

party rallies in a dramatic way around. one candidate. His name is Mark Carney. Mark Carney is not a politician. He's a. political novice who hasn't held elected. office, but has been in the public eye. for many, many years, really his entire. career. He was the governor of the Bank. of Canada during the global financial. crisis of 2008. And then he went on to. become the governor of the Bank of. England during Brexit. So Canadians know.

him as a a solid economics policy guy. for sure. But people point out that. Carney is not a naturalb born. politician. He's not oozing charisma. I. think when he started his campaign in. January, polling showed one in three. Canadians only could recognize his. photo, could name who he was. And. nonetheless, the moment he's in and the. anti-Trump sentiment, the fear and.

concern Canadians are feeling and the. anger just turbocharges his campaign. So, people are looking to Carney as. someone who can, you know, potentially. make a deal with Trump, but also steer. the country through what will be a. challenging economic period. You know, people think he knows what he's doing, but Carney has a huge challenge in his. hands, and that's that he has to be. campaigning for his job as prime. minister while being prime minister.

He's expected to get sworn in any day. now. Okay. Can you remind me how this. works? So, he's serving as prime. minister and then he has to run fairly. soon again as prime minister. Can you. just give me the little um Canadian. Parliament 101? Absolutely. It is a. little complicated, but Canada has a. sort of parliamentary system where the. leader of the party in power is the. prime minister and so okay, Mr. Carney.

has been elected as leader of the. Liberal Party and so he will be sworn in. as prime minister but by Canadian. political rules the country needs to. hold an election by October and so our. expectation and Mr. Carne's campaign has. indicated this is that he will call for. a federal election really early on after. he's sworn in and seek to capitalize on. his momentum to get a mandate at a.

national level from Canadians. That. seems kind of head spinning. So he's got. to ride the momentum, right? But he also. has to be kind of avoiding an all-out. trade war with Trump, cut a deal, still. look like he's standing up to Trump. This seems like an incredible needle to. try to thread. I agree. I think it's a. really difficult balancing act. Hello. Wow. In his acceptance speech of. the leadership, Mark Carney was barely.

celebratory. Frankly, the Americans want. our resources, our water, our land, our. country. Think about it. if they if they. succeeded, they would destroy our way of. life. He made like a wartime speech and. he was clear that he was going to be. very aggressive against the United. States. And my government will keep our. tariffs on until the Americans show us.

respect. [Applause]. That was like a really striking moment. But at the same time, he's going to have. to deal with President Trump, and that. kind of rhetoric doesn't play very well. with President Trump. So, what about. Plev? I can imagine that being a. right-wing populist who is compared to. Trump is suddenly not a great thing to. be in Canada. That's right. I think that. Pierre Pierrev is not Trump, but his.

detractors here in Canada call him Maple. Ma. That's kind of the slur they use. against him. And even though many of his. policies are pretty sort of mainstream, vanilla, moderate, conservative. policies, he does borrow from the MAGA. playbook. And so that is not a great. situation to be in when your country. suddenly turns against President Trump. and everything he stands for in such a. such a huge and visceral way. Is he.

trying to put distance between himself. and Trump? Has he shifted his campaign? Well, the Conservatives are really. trying to stage a pivot. They still have. a solid chance at winning the federal. election when it happens. According to. polls, they're sort of neck andneck with. Carney and the Liberals, but their. leader has to just do a whole new thing. now. So what they're doing is they are. really distancing themselves from. President Trump, saying that the. rhetoric and the threats coming out of.

the White House are not what they. believe in. They're going to stand up to. President Trump. And recently, President. Trump gave an interview to a British. magazine and he said, "Oh, I'm not so. sure what I think about this Polier guy. in Canada. He's not a MAGA guy." And. boy, did Pierre PV grab that. opportunity. The president says that he. doesn't like me. He He doesn't think. that I'm a MAGA guy. I I am not. It is. true that I am Canada first. Says, "You're right, Mr. President. I'm not a.

MAGA guy. I'm a Canada first guy." And. if that upsets foreign leaders, including the American president, I'm. fine with that because I have one job to. do and it's to fight for this country. We will never be the 51st state and I. will always stand up for our flag and. our people. So the opposition party, the. conservatives need to sort of reinvent. themselves, frankly, more close to the. center to have a fighting chance in the. elections. So it's a kind of odd moment.

of political consensus in a country that. was 5 minutes ago going through this. incredibly polarizing political. situation. Are either of these. candidates. articulating what the future of Canada. would look like? Are they talking about. what would happen if the United States. isn't at play anymore? Absolutely, Kim. And I think that's just been something. really interesting to observe. There's. clearly an existential crisis happening.

with the Canadian economy, and this huge. breakdown in the relationship with the. United States is driving it home. So. both candidates and both parties are. talking a lot about what a future of a. successful Canada would look like. diversifying away from the United States. dependence. And part of the reason they. want to be doing this urgently is that. the situation with the tariffs from the. United States is like shifting sands. The one day it's going to be 25% on. everything, the next day that's canled,

but it's going to be 50% on steel. And. so this is a very destabilizing. situation for the Canadian economy. And. Canada doesn't have a lot of other. customers. They sell most of their stuff. to Americans. And that's why they're. looking much more toward Europe. I mean, half of Canadians, according to a recent. poll, want to even join the European. Union. That's amazing. Wow. I know. That's how far this is going. But. they're also looking to improve other. relationships. Right now, they're in a.

really tough spot with China, which is. another top trading partner. The Chinese. have imposed tariffs on Canada, sort of. trying to squeeze them not to cut a deal. with the United States on tariffs and. trade. And so they're finding themselves. in a really difficult position when they. need to strategically rethink their. global economic and trade links. And. both the Liberals and the Conservatives. are casting a wider net around the world. for new best friends.

Matina in any good relationship trust is. essential. So in this relationship. between the United States and Canada, let's say Trump goes back on the. tariffs, decides that he wants things. back to the way they were with Canada. Can the relationship be put back. together again? I mean, I think. obviously the breach of trust and the. uncertainty has already caused a lot of. damage even economically. You know, there's been market volatility. Investment has been frozen. And so, folks are already hurting financially.

here in Canada. And of course, it goes. deeper than that. There's a break in. trust that feels really meaningful. Right now, it does feel kind of. permanent, but it is conceivable that in. the future there could be perhaps. different leaders on both sides and. those fences could be mended, but it. will be on new terms. [Music]. What I'm seeing here in Canada is a. really energized willingness to redefine. what it is to be Canadian both at home.

and on the world stage through new. economic relationships and more defined. cultural references too. I think even if. this episode were to just sort of end. tomorrow, it would still have a lasting. legacy of seeing a more clear, a more. assertive, and a prouder, a more. Canadian. [Music].

Canada. Matina, as always, thank you. Thank you, Kim. On Wednesday, hours after Trump's global. tariffs on steel and aluminum took. effect, the Canadian government. retaliated with new tariffs on $20. billion of US. imports. That came as the European Union. also hit back with new levies against.

American goods. Trump, who earlier this. week declined to rule out the. possibility that his economic policies. would cause a recession, vowed to. respond, saying, quote, "Of course I'll. hit. [Music]. back." We'll be right. back. Here's what else you should know. today. In what the Trump administration.

is calling the largest deregulatory. announcement in American history, the. Environmental Protection Agency. Wednesday said it would unwind dozens of. regulations, among them protections for. wetlands and limits on how much soot can. pour from smoke stacks. Most. significantly, the administration plans. to erase the EPA's legal authority to. regulate carbon monoxide and other. greenhouse gases by reconsidering. decades of science that highlight the.

dangers of global. warming. Today's episode was produced by. Shannon Lynn, Nina Feldman, Michael. Simon Johnson, and Anna Foley with help. from Alex Stern and Stella Tan. It was. edited by Chris Hel, Devin Taylor, and. MJ Davis Lynn. Contains original music. by Dan Powell and Sophia Lanman. And was. engineered by Alyssa. Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim.

Brunberg and Ben Lansferk of Wonderly. [Music]. That's it for the daily. I'm Kim. Severson. See you tomorrow. [Music].