Congress Orders Trump to Release the Epstein Files

From The New York Times, I'm Michael. Barbaro. This is The Daily. In a dramatic vote on Tuesday, congressional Republicans overwhelmingly. approved a bill that President Trump. spent months trying to kill that will. now force his administration to release. all of its files related to Jeffrey. Epstein.

Today, the story of how a rebellion started by. a handful of Republican lawmakers became. a party-wide mutiny against the. president and a defining moment of his. second term. [Music]. It's Wednesday, November 19th.

[Music]. Hello, good morning. A little chilly. coming from Florida, not used to it. I know everybody sees us today as grown. adults, but we are fighting for the. children that were abandoned and left. behind. This is who you're fighting for. This is who Congress is fighting for. This is who the House of Representatives. are fighting for. I want to kick this.

off right and I want to address my. >> I was a child. I was. in ninth grade. I was hopeful for life. >> only 14 when I first encountered Jeffrey. Epstein. And my daughter is now almost at that. age. At 14 What we endured was real. The truth has been buried in sealed. files and hidden records for far too. long. The Epstein files transparent.

>> Alone, yes, we are afraid. But together. we are feared. [Music]. Emotionally, this process has been. distressing. First, the administration. said it would release everything. Then. it fought to release nothing. Let me be clear. This is not a hoax. I beg you, President Trump, please stop. making this political. It is not about.

you, President Trump. I voted for you, but your behavior on this issue has been. a national embarrassment. [Music]. Because survivors spoke up, because of. their courage, the truth is finally. going to come out. And I also want to. thank the courage of two of my. colleagues in particular. Both of them. have suffered, as you know, extraordinary political consequences for.

what they did. And I want to hand it. over to my colleague, Representative. Thomas Massie. I want to start by thanking the. survivors. I mean, they're giving. everybody hope in this country. We're going to get justice for them. That's going to happen today in the. people's house. We had long odds, but we. had some brave women on the Republican. side. They were pressured in ways that you. cannot even imagine, and they stood strong. My colleague.

Marjorie Taylor Greene is one of them. who's here with us today. [Music]. These women have fought the most. horrific fight that no woman should have. to fight, and they did it by banding. together and never giving up. And that's. what we did by fighting so hard against. the most powerful people in the world, even the President of the United States. And he called me a traitor for standing. with these women. I wasn't a Johnny-come-lately to the.

MAGA train. And I'll tell you right now, watching. this actually turn into a fight has. ripped MAGA apart. [Music]. It's about 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday. morning. We are standing outside the US. Capitol, where this really emotional. news conference is now wrapping up. And. it featured victims of Jeffrey Epstein. and this bipartisan group of lawmakers,

Republicans and Democrats, who have. forced the Trump administration to back. a measure. that would require it to release. all of its Epstein files, something. President Trump has fought tooth and. nail. So, we're now going to go inside the. Capitol to talk to our colleague Andy. Carney about how these lawmakers. persuaded President Trump into reversing. himself and backing this measure to. release the Epstein files. And then we're going to watch as this.

bill, in a couple hours we think, gets. passed perhaps unanimously. And. Andy should be back here. Hello. >> Hello. Welcome to our humble abode. >> It is about as humble as it gets. This is our very exclusive closet. Yeah. >> That we can just sit in every day. Uh well, thank you for. making some space at your. little closet here for us.

and for. making time for us in general today. Of. course. So, and just to start, this has been an. extraordinary few days at the Capitol. that brings us to Tuesday's vote. And. I'd argue that this vote feels like a. major moment, not just in the Epstein. story, whose victims have pleaded for. it, but for the entire second term. presidency of Donald Trump because of. how ferociously he fought this vote ever. happening at every turn and with every.

available tool until suddenly he gave. up, which he very, very rarely does in a. political fight. So, tell us the story of how, over the past. few days, President Trump concluded that. he had to give up the fight here. I think where the most recent chapter of. this starts is when the government. shutdown ends and Mike Johnson, Speaker. of the House, is forced finally to swear. in this Democrat from Arizona, Adalita.

Grijalva, who won a special election a. few months ago, and he was. slow-rolling her swearing in, and that was going to provide the 218th. vote on this petition. Right, the. petition, which we should just say, as a. reminder, hearkens back like months. Yes, months ago, Thomas Massie, a. Republican, and Ro Khanna, a Democrat, paired together to start this discharge.

petition. Discharge petitions are just. something that any member can do. You. have to get 218 signatures, and if you. do. >> Not nothing. No, it's hard. It's hard to. get these things off the ground cuz that. requires bipartisan support. If you do, you can circumvent leadership and force. them to bring to a bill to the floor. that they don't want to bring to the. floor. >> Right. So, they started this months ago. When they first rolled it out, dozens of. Republicans were saying they were going. to sign on. When it became clear that Trump was. opposed to this, that support drained.

away, and there were only four. Republicans left: Thomas Massie, who's. the leader of the movement, and three. women, hardcore MAGA Trump loyalists, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Nancy Mace. Right, some of the. biggest names in the MAGA movement, kind. of the neon light names of it. >> are like the rare House members that. regular people who don't follow this all. the time might know these names. >> And know to be exceedingly loyal to. President Trump. They say, we will stick.

with this petition. That was immediately sort of interesting. that it was just the women who were. holding strong, and, you know, a few of. these women have talked a lot about. their own experience with abuse and. assault. Nancy Mace has, Lauren Boebert. has, Marjorie Taylor Greene has not, but. they were driven by personal reasons and. made that clear. But still it was a. question mark of if Donald Trump. continues to pressure them, and he was, would they stick or would they try and.

remove their names? >> Right. So, let's get back to the part of. the chronology where suddenly, because. this congresswoman-elect is finally. sworn in, their votes really matter. >> Right. With Adalita Grijalva, it has. exactly 218. And the pressure really. intensifies on Boebert and Mace and. Greene. Hm. Trump personally calls Mace. and Boebert and is pressuring them. himself. We learn that Lauren Boebert is invited. in to a meeting in the situation room.

with Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, and Kash Patel, the FBI Director, for a. briefing on Epstein-related matters, which is just kind of unheard of to sit. in that room with one member of. Congress. Right, this is a room. the situation room that. I mean, we regard it cinematically as. the place where the Cuban Missile Crisis. is being overseen and where Bin Laden's. killing is being watched by. Barack Obama and all the guys that we.

know. >> all have seen. So, they bring Boebert. into that room of all rooms, and. presumably make the case to her that she. should not remain a signatory to this. petition. Right. I mean, we don't know. exactly what was said in the room, but. Lauren Boebert's probably never been in. the situation room. Just the whole. staging of this was clearly, you know, a. shock and awe of the treatment she's. getting in this moment when she's a. critical vote. But it doesn't work. She. does not remove her name from the. petition.

>> Mhm. And in fact, the extreme pressure. campaign on her actually made her dig in. more. Mhm. She started to get even more. conspiratorial about why they would were. so adamantly opposed to this. And. an interesting dynamic that unfolded. during the shutdown was Mike Johnson. recessed the house for a month. So, all. these members were home. And what I. heard is Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace, Marjorie Taylor Greene, all they heard. from constituents for a month was. "You're brave. Hold the line. Stay.

strong. We're with you on this." None of. the feedback they got from voters was. that there was any repercussions for. going against Trump on this issue. >> Right. It starts to feel like the truest. expression of MAGA-ism to these leaders. of MAGA is to back this measure. >> Correct. They. >> is to give supporters of this movement. the transparency they want when it comes. to Jeffrey I think they become. incredibly. passionate and feel like they cannot. move. So, these four House Republicans.

are digging in. They're back from their. districts. They are determined to stick. with this discharge petition. And it. feels worth saying that at this point, because the 218 signatures are on that. petition, and this is going to keep. moving forward. It's eventually going to. become. a bill on the floor of the House. that Trump is now asking the entire. House Republican caucus to make an. impossible choice, because and correct. me if I'm wrong, Annie, he. is asking them now to hold the line. against this bill. He's like, "Sure,

maybe we've got this discharge petition, but everybody else needs to stay with. me." Which means he's asking them to. choose him over the victims of Jeffrey. Epstein. It's the ultimate Trump loyalty. test. Totally. I mean, this was shaping. up to be a terrible vote for. Republicans. Not only choosing between. Trump and the victims themselves, but. Trump and their own voters, who have. been demanding this release. So, after. Grijalva is sworn in, it's just a matter.

of what day Mike Johnson is going to. schedule the vote, because it's an. inevitability at that point. >> Right. >> decides to do it rather quickly. and just get done with it. So, Speaker. Johnson says he's going to. schedule the vote for early this week. And it becomes clear internally in the. conference that many Republicans are. going to vote for it. So, when it comes. to this impossible choice, many House. Republicans are going to be choosing. against the president. >> Correct. So, they start telling the. president this. Members themselves are. talking to him.

And over the last weekend, he was in. Florida. And he's hearing. that there are going to be many. defections, and that the vote is. inevitable at this point. And he realizes he is going to lose. Mhm. And he does not like to lose. >> Mhm. Another thing that he heard from. members. was that the more he was fighting, the. more it looked like he was trying to. cover something up. So, on the flight back from Florida on. Sunday night, on Air Force One, he.

drafts this Truth Social post. doing a 180 and telling Republic House. Republicans to vote for the release. This was great news for House. Republicans, who were saved from this. awful choice. And we immediately saw even the most. hard-right Republicans, who had said. they are a hard no, that it's a. Democratic hoax, they would never vote. for this, suddenly saying like, "Yeah, of course. I'm voting for it. Trump told me to." Literally. That's.

what Troy Nehls from Texas told me last. night. "Yeah, Trump said to vote for it, so now. I'm for it." So, once Trump reverses. himself and backs this bill, everyone. has permission in the Republican Party. to back it. And it sounds like almost. all of them. are backing it. Yes, it's expected to be. a unanimous or near unanimous vote to. release the files. No one wants to be on. record saying they don't support. transparency on the Epstein issue. Even if just hours before they were. Correct. And Trump goes even further. In the Oval.

Office on Monday, he says that if it. passes the Senate and comes to his desk, he'll sign it into law. Just a reality check here is that if he. really wanted to compel the Justice. Department to release these files, he. actually doesn't need Congress to tell. him to do so. He could just do that, and. he hasn't done it. So, there are still. questions on what will a release really. look like. >> Mhm. What will actually be released? But. for now, it's just a total change of. tune. So, in summary, what really. happened here over the past week or so.

is that a mutiny that was started by. these four House Republicans became kind. of a movement against Trump. that forced him to recognize that this. time congressional Republicans were. going to be the ones calling the shots. And in that sense, it does kind of feel. like a real ground-shifting moment, a. real before and after. It does. >> moment in this administration. >> It feels like it is indicative of a.

splintering that's happening in the. movement that we're seeing on multiple. fronts in this moment. A realization that the base and Trump. are not totally aligned. And I just. think enough cannot be said. about the fact that four hard-right. Republicans. stood up to Trump in a way that we have. not seen any moderate or center-leaning. Republican do in 10 years. >> Right. And they break with him on. something incredibly important to him.

[Music]. I mean, the story of this Congress until. today has been that they have willingly. ceded all of their power to the. executive branch. And today is likely to be the first time. that we see Congress. dictating the terms of engagement, and. Donald Trump having to. cave. [Music]. Annie, thank you very much. Thank you.

[Music]. After the break, a conversation with one. of the four House Republicans who forced. the president to cave. We'll be right back. So, a couple minutes ago, I texted. Congressman Massie. and said, "You don't know me, but I. would really like to talk to you about. your role in all of this.". And I invoked our colleague Kitty. Edmondson, the Times congressional. reporter, who knows the congressman and.

has his respect. And he just texted back and said, "Can. you meet at Cannon Rotunda in the next. 15 minutes?". And so, we're now walking underground. from the Capitol to the Cannon Office. Building to talk to Congressman Massie. about his role in this very big vote. Do you guys know what floor the Cannon. Rotunda is on? Two. There's someone. Three. It's three. Four three, going up. Next year. This is.

your floor. Thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good one. You too. >> You too. Okay. Cannon Rotunda. And. Congressman Massie. I got to. go write a speech at some point. >> Okay. Give me a second. Look, is that a. Is that a national debt clock on your. shirt? >> But please, my eyes are up here. Yes. Uh. okay. Congressman Massie, thank you for. making time for us. I know it's a huge.

and important day for you. This all very much feels like you are. doing what's happening today along with. Congressman Ro Khanna. You're kind of. singularly responsible for getting this. all started. I guess I just want to start by asking. you, how does it feel to have originated. this all? Well, a lot of people. >> we are. A lot of people said in the. beginning this was a quixotic effort. that was doomed to fail. And most. discharge petitions do fail. But here we.

are. The vote's going to happen today. And they can't do anything to stop it. You had the fight, if you'll forgive me, like hell to get. to this point. The president has. basically politically disowned you. He's. backed somebody back in your district in. Kentucky, who may or may not end up. running, but he's dis-endorsed you. And he's trying to get you out of the. House of Representatives. How do you explain why the president. would oppose. what you have described as essentially a. transparency act, an act of justice for.

young victims of sexual abuse by Jeffrey. Epstein? Like, have you ever really. settled in your mind why he opposes it? He's been, until this week, tenacious in. his opposition. It makes you wonder if he's worried. about himself. But I've always. maintained that he's. probably not criminally implicated in. these files, that he is taking up for. friends and donors of his, and people. who were in his social circle in the. '90s, long before he was president, and.

people who may be giving him money now. My friend Ro Khanna. >> covering for some Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. These These are people that. he knew. He He claims, and there's. evidence to this, that he disavowed his. relationship with Jeffrey Epstein at. some point. But he has colleagues and. friends who did not, and donors who did. not. They're what my colleague calls the. Epstein class. You rich, elite, connected individuals who always have. thought they're above the law, and if.

they ever get in trouble, they'll just. buy a politician. And in my district, they're trying to buy a politician. To the degree that this has become a. political story, versus what you've. always seemed to want it to be, which is. a story of victims and documents. becoming public, it's feels like it's become the story of. you all making an end run around the. president when he fought this, and. Congress, in a very real sense, rebalancing power. that it has ceded over the past year to. Trump and to the executive branch.

Is that how you see this? Is this an. overdue correction? It is an overdue correction. >> But, you know, it's the House that has. ceded the authority to the president. The president didn't come and. >> Your house, your party. Yeah, Speaker. Johnson. The president isn't acting. outside of the Constitution. He's. getting the Congress to do nothing in. the face of what he does. And I wouldn't. say this is a a victory for the Speaker.

of the House. because he has been fine with doing. whatever the president wants to do. >> So, who's it a victory for? It's a. victory for the people who exerted. enough pressure on the members of. Congress that I think they went to the. Speaker and to the president and said, "We can't do this. You can't make us. vote against victims of sex. trafficking." And ultimately, the. president and the speaker can do math. They saw they were going to lose this. vote. >> And then they backed it. And then they. decided to back it.

>> a cost to this all, I think your. colleague, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor. Greene, just identified it out there at. that news conference. She says this is. ripping MAGA apart. Do you agree with. that? And to the degree that you do, do. you feel badly about that? Or is it just. the cost of forcing the president to. reckon with what the people want here? If there's a cost, it's self-inflicted. by the president. He. and disowned. the portion of his base that wanted. these Epstein files released. He said, "You're no longer one of my friends if. you want to release these files." And I.

think that's when he lost a a large. degree of support. It's hard to say he's. getting bad advice. Some of the things. that he's done that we don't agree with. on the Republican side, we've chalked it. up to bad advice. But at some point, he's accountable for his own statements. >> Self-inflicted wound to MAGA from the. president is what you're saying. It's as clear as day, that's what. happened. I'm glad now that he's joining. the effort. Let's just make sure. that they don't derail the effort some.

other way. You said something a couple. days ago. to your colleagues who remained pretty. frightened about voting for this bill. before the president reversed course, looked at the math and said, "I got to. get behind this." You said. that the president's endorsement in your. district, sure, that's going to help you. in your district in the next cycle, but. the memory of this vote is going to live. a lot longer than the president's legacy. or his political influence. What did you mean by that? Well, the president's giving out. presidential endorsements to Republicans.

like Pez candy over there at the White. House. And but the deal is that you'll. always vote with him. And so, he set. them up in a situation where they were. all going to take their endorsement and. then walk the plank politically. On. Epstein? On Epstein. Put themselves at. odds with their own constituents. And so, ultimately, I think he realized. he'd given them a bad choice, one that. frankly could cost us the midterms and. it could really diminish the party.

You know, ultimately, I think it was a. political calculation that he made, and. he released them from their obligation. to walk the plank. But you're also. telling fellow Republicans not to be. afraid of saying when he strays. Absolutely. Nobody should be afraid. I. wish there had been more than three. Republicans who joined me. But maybe. we've got a message here today from the. rest of my colleagues, which is. when you're on the right side, when.

you're on the side of the people, especially when you're on the side of. the president's base, then you can take. that position and keep the president. honest. Maybe he'll come around. You are. what I like to call the tallest tree in. the forest right now. It's a short. forest. >> And when and when and when Donald Trump. sees a really tall tree in the forest. sometimes, he wants to knock it down. And he's been very successful at it. Is. that a worry you have? I'm not worried about it. I mean, there's already been $2 million spent in. my primary, and it's not until May.

I've got the support of the people in my. district, but even if I lost, I'd rather. lose and do the right thing up here than. make the kind of tradeoffs that you make. when you're scared And then he wanted. you to make. >> Yeah. And the vast majority of my. colleagues have been making. Congressman, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your time. All right. [Music].

Gentleman from Kentucky is recognized. Mr. Speaker, today is an extraordinary day in this. chamber. If my colleagues will vote for this. measure, we'll see justice triumph over. politics. Truth will triumph over. deception and obfuscation. Transparency. The gentlelady from Georgia is. recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I proudly rise today in a bipartisan. effort to release the Epstein files.

finally after five admin Mr. Speaker, I. move to suspend the rules and pass H.R. 4405. The clerk will re- report the. title of the bill. H.R. 4405, a bill to. require the Attorney General to release. all documents and records in possession. of the Department of Justice relating to. Jeffrey Epstein and for other purposes. On this vote, the yeas are 427, the nays are one. 2/3 being in the affirmative, the rules.

are suspended, the bill is passed, and. without objection, the motion to. reconsider is laid on the table. [Music]. So, the voting in the House is now. officially over. The. measure, what's being called around here. the Epstein Transparency Act, has officially passed.

427 to 1. It was almost unanimous in the. end. A single House Republican voted. against it. And now that it has passed, we wanted to. talk to one of the smartest minds. on Washington here at The New York. Times, Carl Hulse, to make sense. of what this vote means well beyond. Epstein and really even just this. moment. Carl, just walk us through how you're. thinking about the vote that just. happened today in the biggest possible.

context. Yeah, I think what we're seeing. is not just with this vote, but with. some other developments, the glimmers of. lame-duckism for President Trump. Just. just explain that. So, in my experience, generally, you know, the lame-duck. status for a a second-term president. comes after the midterm election, and. they generally lose. >> Which which is a year out from that. >> Right. Which which is they generally. lose, and everyone goes, "Up, they're. done." Right? It's coming a little. earlier because the election earlier.

this month, right, resounding. Democratic victories, bigger than we. anticipated, and up and down the ballot. And. I think this is being processed. in real time by members of Congress. And. I think Thomas Massie said something. interesting about this. He said, "You. know, this vote is going to be. remembered longer than Trump's in. office.". >> You're literally you're you're reciting. the line that I recited back to him. today because it felt very memorable.

>> It's a That is a very incisive comment. that he made. And it's not just this. vote. There's some other things we're. seeing. Trump was really determined to get the. Senate to back off on the filibuster. during the shutdown. And they didn't. They they held firm because you guess. what? They need that filibuster beyond. President Trump's tenure. That's a case. of seeing beyond Trump. >> Right. I think the redistricting but in. some of these these states are resisting.

Trump, even though, you know, there's. like we're we're trying to do it. You're. talking about, for example, Indiana. >> Indiana. >> president went to them and said, "Okay, it's your turn. And there's reluctance. because these are longer-term things. And I to me, it's important to note, people thought. that Trump is a totally different. politician and and he's not vulnerable. to the things that we saw. >> lame-duckism would be obsolete. >> Right. That he's never going to be a. lame duck because of his. use of the bully pulpit as a real bully, right? I think, you know, this is just.

the beginnings, and Trump is still a. real powerhouse, especially among. Republicans, but I do think there's real. cracks in this coalition. >> And once the cracks of lame. duckery, whatever we want to call it, lame-duckism, start to show, I wonder how much. they can't be papered over, and people. want to start poking their hole in it. and testing it, and it just kind of. creates an opening that. has to be exploited. >> Yeah, I think it's just the nature of. politics, right? There's no stronger.

emotion in politics than. self-preservation for most of these. guys, right? They're going to do what it. takes to preserve themselves. And if. they see that Trump is weakening, they're going to make the moves they. think are going to help themselves. And. it's true, Trump is not going to be. around forever. Right. And for the. longest time, self-preservation for a. congressional Republican meant only one. thing. It meant doing what Trump wanted. And now, what you're describing is. self-preservation starting to.

necessitate breaking with him. Right. I. think you're exactly right. And I think. we'll start to see more of this. It'll. be gradual, but I think the trend is in. that direction right now. The fear of. Trump was paramount on Capitol Hill for. Republicans. That drove everything. Now, they're starting to have a little fear. of voters. and that can make a difference. how they align with Trump. For Trump? As ever. Thank you very much.

Thanks for coming on site. Again? >> Yeah, I like it. I think it really the. verisimilitude is good. [Music]. On Tuesday night, not long after we. spoke with Carl, the Senate moved. quickly to call a vote in support of the. Epstein bill, which now puts the bill on. track to pass the Senate by Wednesday. morning. If that happens, the bill could be.

signed into law by President Trump by. the end of the day. [Music]. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today.

During a meeting in the Oval Office on. Tuesday, President Trump offered the. Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed. bin Salman, lavish praise and dismissed. a report from US intelligence officials. who found that bin Salman was. responsible for the murder of a. journalist from the Washington Post, Jamal Khashoggi. >> Your royal highness, the US intelligence. concluded that you orchestrated the. brutal murder of a journalist. 9/11. families are furious that you are here.

in the Oval Office. Why should Americans. trust Who are you with? And the same. team as you, sir. No, who are you with? >> ABC News, sir. You're with who? ABC. News, sir. Fake news. ABC fake news. One. of the worst. Before bin Salman could. answer a question about the murder from. a reporter, Trump interjected and. defended the Crown Prince. >> You're mentioning somebody that was. extremely controversial. A lot of people. didn't like that gentleman that you're. talking about. Whether you like him or. didn't like him, things happened, but he. knew nothing about it and we can leave.

it at that. You don't have to embarrass. our guest by asking a question like. that. And in a major blow to President. Trump's efforts to redistrict his way to. victory in the midterm elections, a federal judge has blocked Texas's. newly redrawn congressional map from. going into effect. Over the summer, at Trump's direction, Texas Republicans had redrawn their maps. to create up to five new. Republican-leaning seats. But, two federal judges, including one.

appointed by Trump, found that the new. maps were unconstitutional. Texas Governor Greg Abbott said he plans. to appeal the ruling to the Supreme. Court. [Music]. Today's episode was produced by Anna. Foley, Mary Wilson, and Michael Simon. Johnson. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Rob. Zipko. Contains music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Dan Powell and was.

engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Special thanks to Julie Davis, Megan. Miner Robert Jimison, and Edward Isaac. Dover. [Music]. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow. [Music].