Chuck Schumer on His Campaign to Oust Israel’s Leader

from The New York Times I'm Michael. borro this is the. [Music]. daily today in a speech without. precedent Senate Majority Leader Chuck. Schumer called for Israelis to hold an. election and vote out their current. leader soon after my colleague Annie. Carney sat down with Schumer to.

understand why he did. it it's Friday March. [Music]. 13th and this Story begins with a speech. so let's start there tell us about this. speech I Rise to speak today about what. I believe can and should be the path. forward to secure Mutual peace and.

Lasting prosperity for Israelis and. Palestinians so last Thursday without. much warning Chuck Schumer the Senate. Majority Leader took to the senate floor. and started delivering what ended up. being a really personal really meaty. speech about his Jewish identity and. about Israel I speak for myself but I. also speak for so many mainstream Jewish. Americans a silent majority whose.

nuanced views on the matter have never. been well represented in this country's. discussions about the war in. Gaza so he starts by describing himself. and giving a sense of why he sees. himself as a guardian of the people of. Israel of course my first responsibility. is to America and to New York but as the. first Jewish majority leader of the. United States Senate and the highest. ranking Jewish elected official in.

America ever I also feel very keenly my. responsibility as a chare Israel a. guardian of the people of Israel but he. quickly turns to the humanitarian. catastrophy in Gaza and describes some. of the suffering and displacement there. entire families wiped out whole. neighborhoods reduced to Rubble Mass. displacement children suffering and he. gets to his point.

that Israel has a moral obligation to do. better Palestinian civilians do not. deserve to suffer for the sins of Hamas. and Israel has a moral obligation to do. better the United States has an. obligation to do better and that this is. not in line with Israel's values what's. happening in Gaza what horrifies so many. Jews especially is our sense that Israel. is falling short of upholding these. distinctly Jewish values that we hold so. dear we we must be better than our.

enemies lest we become them that. Israel's approach to its war against. tamas and Gaza is not in sync with what. he sees as the very meaning of being a. Jew and what Israel is supposed to. represent that's right and he also kind. of frames it as this is not only hurting. Palestinians but it's hurting Israel. support for Israel has declined. worldwide in the last few months and. this trend will only get worse if the.

Israeli government continues to follow. its current path he thinks that when. they're Prosecuting the war in this. fashion they are quickly losing Global. support American support their. reputation on the world stage and he. thinks that Israel's future is in. Jeopardy if it doesn't have public. support from the rest of the world the. existence of Israel he's saying is in. Jeopardy yes we cannot let anger or. trauma.

determine our actions or Cloud our. judgment so Schumer in the speech. carefully lays out that he thinks the. only path out of this is a peace deal he. specifically says they need to work. towards a two-state solution the only. real and sustainable solution to this. decades old conflict is a negotiated. two-state solution a demilitarized. Palestinian State living side by side. with Israel in equal measures of Peace.

security Prosperity dignity and mutual. recognition and then he goes through. four obstacles to such a peace deal. right now there are four four major. obstacles standing in the way of two. states and until they are removed from. the equation there will never be peace. in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank the. four major obstacles are Hamas and the. Palestinians who support and tolerate. their evil. ways radical right-wing Israelis in.

government and Society the most shocking. one that he lists Palestinian Authority. president mmud abas is Israeli Prime. Minister Benjamin Netanyahu prime. minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel I. will explain each in detail the first. major obstacle and what specifically. does Schumer point to about Netanyahu. prime minister Netanyahu has lost his. way by allowing his political survival.

to take the precedence over the best. interests of Israel he has filled his. government with far-right extremists. that Schumer called out by name in the. speech he has put himself in Coalition. with far-right extremists like Minister. smotri and Ben gavier and as a result he. has been too willing to tolerate the. civilian toll in Gaza which is pushing. support for Israel worldwide to Historic. lows Israel cannot survive.

if it becomes a pariah and. Netanyahu has ruled out what Schumer is. saying is the answer which is a. two-state solution and he has shown zero. interest in doing the courageous and. Visionary work required to pave the way. for. peace even before this present conflict. the way he's carrying out this war even. the Biden Administration has criticized. him for not doing more to mitigate. civilian deaths he won't commit to a. military operation in Rafa that.

prioritizes protecting civilian life he. won't engage responsibly in discussions. about a day after plan for Gaza and a. longer term Pathway to peace and. Schumer's view the Netanyahu Coalition. no longer fits the needs of Israel after. October 7th he is stuck in the past. nobody expects prime minister Netanyahu. to do the things that must be done to. break the cycle of violence to preserve. Israel's credibility on the world stage.

and to work towards a two-state solution. and can't do the things Min necessary to. move Israel into the Future Past this. War 5 months into this conflict it is. clear that Israelis need to take stock. of the situation and ask must we change. course then he gets to what becomes that. real big headline of this speech and. makes it kind of the bombshell moment in. US Israel relations that it became I.

believe a new election is the only way. to allow for a healthy and open. decisionmaking process about the future. of Israel he says that as the War Winds. down Israel should have a new. election and he makes it clear that he. thinks Netanyahu should be removed from. Power I also believe a majority of the. Israeli public will recognize the need. for change and I believe that holding a. new election one once the war starts to.

wind down would give Israelis an. opportunity to express their vision for. the post-war future the reason he is. saying this now is because Israel. doesn't have to hold an election until. 2026 two years from now yes that's a lot. of time for Netanyahu to stay in power. and according to Schumer watch Israel's. reputation abroad ER Roe so what. Schumer's saying is hold that election. much sooner as soon as this war is over.

and get rid of Netanyahu so Israel can. correct course I mean everything about. that is highly. unconventional it's unprecedented and. this is why Schumer is really careful. with his language in this section of the. speech of course the United States. cannot dictate the outcome of an of an. election nor should we try that is for. the Israeli public to decide making it. clear that Israeli voters will decide.

he's not trying to decide for them if. prime minister netanyahu's current. Coalition remains in power after the war. begins to wind down but then later in. the speech he also makes it clear that. if Netanyahu stays in power the us will. have no choice but to take additional. measures to push back on him then the. United States will have no choice but to. play a more active role in shaping. Israeli policy by using our leverage to. change the course and he is not specific.

about what those are but makes clear. that there will be more push back from. America if Netanyahu stays the United. States bond with Israel is unbreakable. but if extremists continue to unduly. influence Israeli policy then the. administration should use the tools at. its disposal to make sure our support. for Israel is aligned with our broader. goal of achieving long-term peace and. stability in the region right and I was. listening to this section of the speech.

and he he uses the word tools and it. definitely felt to me and I wonder how. you heard it that the word tools meant. money American Aid to Israel almost. certainly the US sends several billion. dollars of military aid to Israel every. year that is underpinning this war in. Gaza Schumer is critical to moving that. Aid through Congress and this is him. sort of saying that not explicitly he. doesn't say money he says tools but that.

they have a lot of Leverage over Israel. and this is also what makes the speech. so remarkable in the first place because. Schumer is calling for these new. elections and then following it up by. saying we have other tools if this. continues in the direction it's going. right now From the Ashes may we light. the candles that lead to a better future. for. all right and what did feel so historic. about this speech I think to so many of.

us is that Schumer is saying so many. quiet things out loud the first being. that the US sees BB Netanyahu as a. problem that needs to be removed big. enough saying that and on top of that he. says we are willing and ready if we need. to to essentially turn off the US. Financial spigot to Israel if the. Netanyahu government doesn't leave or.

significantly change and both of those. just cannot be overstated for their. enormity and their unprecedented it was. a huge historic risky speech that Chuck. Schumer made I mean I think this was. probably one of the riskiest moments of. his career that he is putting himself. out there to make this call and ramp up. this pressure on. [Music]. Netanyahu people of Israel.

at home and in. captivity deserve America's support. immediately after Schumer leaves the. floor Mitch McConnell the minority. leader takes to the podium and blasts. the speech it is. grotesque and. hypocritical for Americans who. hyperventilate about foreign. interference in our own. democracy to call for the removal of a. democratically elected leader of Israel.

Republicans try immediately to say we. need to be standing with Israel and we. need to give our friends and allies our. full support Democrats aren't being. anti-b they're being anti-israel Shu. Schumer speech was an act of Courage an. act of love for Israel Democratic. responses mixed some said he did a great. job he he did something Brave and others. I've got full faith and confidence in. the Israeli people to make the right.

determination about what their future. should look like and said he crossed a. line and this was. inappropriate President Biden was brief. in responding but he called it a good. speech I'm not going to exact elaborate. on a speech he made a good speech and I. think he uh expressed a serious concern. shared not only by him but by many. Americans many people interpreted that. as the administration thinking that SCH.

speaking out was helpful to their aims. and then there's Trump because he was. always pro-israel he's very anti-israel. now who called any Jew who votes for. Democrats to be self-hating and hate. Israel any Jewish person that votes for. Democrats uh hates their religion they. hate everything about Israel and they. should be ashamed of themselves and. finally on Sunday Netanyahu made the. rounds on some of the Sunday shows here.

I think Schumer's statements are wholly. inappropriate I think when we're not a. Banana Republic the people of Israel. will choose when they'll have elections. who they elect and it's not something. that will be foed upon us and in fact he. continues to say we're going to invade. Rafa we're going to keep up the. aggression in Gaza so clearly he doesn't. feel the need to react in terms of his. policies to the speech in anyway but we. have to finish the job we need total. Victory there's no substitute for total. victory.

[Music]. netanyahu's message to Schumer basically. is go fly a kite I don't care what you. say to me I am not changing a thing. about my approach to this war that's. right this is a watershed moment for. Schumer and a turning point in the US. relationship to Israel in the middle of. this war and in part because the. reaction to the speech was all over the.

place I was left with a lot of questions. about why Schumer decided to do this in. the first place and that's how I ended. up sitting with him in Brooklyn on. Sunday afternoon to ask him why did you. give this speech what were you hoping it. would do who is it for and how does it. fit in with your long-standing. relationship with Israel and with your. own Jewish. faith.

we'll be right. [Music]. back so Annie tell us about this. interview you end up having with Schumer. in Brooklyn so we end up meeting at. James Madison High School in Midwood. Brooklyn nice to see you thank you you. want me to. sign great thank you we walk in together. and he has to sign in at the front desk.

right this is his Alma Moder a few. blocks away from the house he grew up in. in the 1950s and 60s what a moment to. come back here. yeah to Where it All. Began sort of see I guess that's the. Golden Nights it was a heavily Jewish. neighborhood at the time. mhm okay now we can go this is the. library okay so as we're walking around. the school he's reminding me of what it.

was like to grow up in this neighborhood. was right right after World War II and. America was advancing and so as a Jew in. the shadow of the Holocaust recent. memory recent memory there were ladies. on my block who would show you the. numbers on their arms from the camps and. I remember that was a very present. reality for him and yet at the same time. for the Jewish people for me so much. part of my existence Israel was there. well out of the holoc came Israel and we.

were so proud of Israel and he talked. about how exciting and enamored he was. with the creation of a Jewish state that. came out of the. Holocaust in the Holocaust Jewish people. we didn't fight back enough and here is. Israel fighting to create a Homeland. against overwhelming odds but Israel in. 1967 when Israel was fighting a war with. Arab Neighbors was nearly wiped off the. map he was very invested you know when I.

walked around the halls of this High. School Madison High School in. 1967 I was walking with the transistor. radio it's June we're ready to graduate. attached to my ear cuz I thought Israel. would be pushed into the sea that's the. connection it's long before politics. this was part of his identity in these. formative high school years right the. story he's telling which is familiar to. many American Jews is of growing up at a. time when the Holocaust is still casting. a very long Shadow and Israel is such a.

potent symbol of Jewish survival and. strength and for somebody like Schumer. the very idea of Israel its very. existence tugs at their heart they don't. live there but it is a source of. extraordinary inspiration that's right. absolutely and by the time he gets into. politics in the late 70s and early. 80s he's also very aware of the fact. that. Israel is a bipartisan issue Democrats.

and Republicans alike steadfastly. support Israel they're committed to the. close. relationship and giving Aid and Military. Support to Israel and he is really proud. of the fact that he said whenever I. carried legislation for Israel I always. had a republican that was a CREDO and. that he thinks is key to Israel's. success that it's bipartisan right so. how do I know BB I know him for a long. time right it's around this time that he.

first crossed his path with BB Netanyahu. he had gone to Harvard with BB's brother. who was an Israeli War hero who died in. combat and became a huge National figure. they didn't know each other personally. but he said that kind of helped Foster a. connection with BB and you know in the. beginning BB did a lot of good things. for. Israel he was the economic Minister and. created almost an economic Miracle we. were so proud that Israel was doing. startups and Tech and all these things.

and when he first became prime minister. he was fine he look he was to the right. but not far right and when Netanyahu. becomes prime minister he wanted to back. him his gut was to stay with him and. back n who even as other Democrats. thought he was moving too far to the. right right and BB's right word drift. becomes extremely pronounced so much so. that he opposes President Obama's plan. to make peace with Iran through a. nuclear deal and Netanyahu actually.

travels to the US Congress to give a. speech asking Congress asking someone. like Schumer to reject that nuclear deal. exactly and Schumer at the time was the. rare Democrat who broke with Obama over. the Iran deal you sided with Netanyahu. against Obama yes and I talked to. Netanyahu quite a lot he must have been. thrilled with that vote he was but and. said it was a matter of just to protect. Israel and he voted against that.

deal I mean suffice it to say for a very. long time Chuck Schumer is a supporter. of BB Netanyahu so much so that he's. even willing to break with his own. Democratic president because he agrees. with Netanyahu that policies like the. Iran nuclear deal are bad for Israel yes. I'd say that maybe he had some. criticisms but Chuck Schumer was.

netanyahu's best hope in terms of. Democratic Leadership in the United. States but somehow BB drifted way to the. right and one of the turning points was. when he just embraced Trump so. completely and I'll tell for Schumer his. views on BB start to change when Donald. Trump is elected here and Netanyahu. becomes extremely close with him and. starts to pursue policies that Democrats. see as not at all in keeping with their. values mhm so BB together with Trump.

pursues diplomatic deals between Israel. and its Arab neighbors that do not take. into account the future of. Palestinians his government expands. settlements with Trump's support and. basically what this means is that Israel. is taking the land that would be. essential to creating a two-state peace. deal in the future right and all of this. infuriates Democrats who think these. policies are making a two-state solution. impossible and taking away the Leverage. The palestin might have had he has now.

become so interested in. self-preservation that he does also. faces corruption investigations which. forc him to bring very right-wing. politicians into his government right. and Schumer told me that he thinks he. never would have made these alliances 10. years ago so really what happens during. the Trump years in Schumer's mind is. that BB just gives up on Democrats and. what they want for Israel and the. Palestinians and just wants to be. aligned with Trump I'll tell you in a. meeting I had he comes in to see me it's.

about 2018. 2019 and I said BB I agree with you the. greatest short-term threat to Israel is. the Rockets Iran gives his Bala and they. put them in Lebanon and shoot them at. Israel but the greatest middle and. long-term danger is you lose America. particularly the half of America that's. more Progressive Andor the half of. America that's young and by your. embracing Trump you are making that. happen that was so in his mind BB.

chooses Republicans and walks away from. this history of bipartisan support. that's right and that becomes even more. of a problem after October 7th well just. explain that Annie well after October. 7th there's broad support for Israel who. was just the victim of a terrorist. attack against defenseless. citizens but as the war continues and. and the Netanyahu regime starts to take.

these aggressive actions in Gaza that. support starts to dwindle States because. I look at the numbers and they're. rapidly decreasing terms when you ask. people do you support Israel or. Palestinians it's getting all too. close and in his mind you know his fear. that Israel will lose the support of. America seems to be playing out in a. really acute way he can see it in his. party um who's really divided over. what's happening in Gaza and the.

humanitarian crisis there I am worried. if Israel loses support from America. it's going to be it's its future could. well be over I want and his fear what he. fears is that there could come a Tipping. Point when the majority of this country. does not support Israel and it's alone. in a hostile Middle East without the. necessary Financial backing from the. United States so as the highest elected.

Jewish official in America and one of. the leading Jewish whatever you want. people in America I felt an obligation. to do this this was not political and. this is why he says he ultimately sat. down to write this speech this is so. part of my core my soul my in yish my. Mana by the way in his mind the goal. here is to try to save Israel from bib's. actions which he thinks imp Peril it's. future once Schumer decides to write.

this speech Annie and to encourage. Israelis to hold an election and in that. election vote out Netanyahu I'm curious. how does Schumer tell you he thinks. about the precedent that that SS that. the US will try to influence a foreign. country's decision about who should lead. it I asked him about that and he said he. was aware that this section of the. speech was the most delicate line he had.

to tell no did you consider I thought it. was in did you consider not. personalizing it with Netanyahu and just. calling for policy changes I didn't. think that would be enough and he's the. found to the prop to just call for. policy changes I thought it wouldn't. pierce it wouldn't do anything it. wouldn't do anything it forget yes it's. so urgent and so important I didn't. think it was appropriate to call for him. to step down but I thought the next step. thing over and say why I think he's a. bad leader and did you think so he. wasting this speech with the notion of.

being careful about appearing to. interfere front of mind and he thought. where he landed going further than. simply calling for policy changes but. stopping short of calling for a. resignation and calling for new. elections he thinks he towed the line. and didn't cross it got it now clearly. many people including Netanyahu disagree. about whether Schumer crossed the line. but I'm curious if those people were his. a a I mean who is Schumer really talking.

to with this speech does he think he's. speaking directly to Israelis and asking. them to demand a new election and that. they're going to listen or actually is. he really talking to a more domestic. audience in particular his fellow. Democrats who are increasingly upset. about this war and potentially it looks. like willing to hold it against their. party's. leaders. he put this pretty simply when I asked.

him it's tended for all people who love. Israel and feel so conflicted by what's. going on now the purpose of the speech. is to say you can still love Israel and. feel strongly about Israel and totally. disagree with BB Netanyahu and the. policies of Israel right he said that it. was aimed above all at American Jews and. non-jews who love Israel and he wanted. what he wanted to do here was separate. Netanyahu from Israel and make it.

crystal clear to people that you can be. anti Netanyahu you can totally disagree. with how he's conducting the war in Gaza. and you can still be as pro- Israel as. ever he wanted to create this separation. between Netanyahu and Israel and make. Jews and non-jews alike feel like it's. still okay to be pro-israel this feels. kind of important so I want to linger on. it for a second Andy Schumer's telling. you that what he's really trying to do. is give. Americans a kind of new.

structure and vocabulary for thinking. about Israel in this moment and that. structure in vocabulary is there's an. Israel separate from Netanyahu and so if. you're angry at Israel in this moment. you should really be angry at Netanyahu. not Israel that's right he's asking them. to blame BB not Israel that Israel is. better than this is better than BBE and. to see it that way. it's almost the same way that people who.

love America but hate Donald Trump would. have felt during the Trump. Administration that they still believe. in this country but they don't believe. in Trump that feels like a very. complicated request that Schumer is. making because the reality is that. Israelis have repeatedly made BB. Netanyahu their leader so much so that. if you're an American especially a. younger American and Schumer wants those. younger Americans to separate BB from.

Israel that would be pretty hard to. accomplish because he's been leader of. Israel for as long as some of these. Young Americans have been alive so how. is Schumer thinking about whether what. he's asking for is really possible I. mean yes it's a little bit of wishful. thinking like it's true that a lot of. Americans don't really know the Israel. of Schumer's childhood that he's able to. remember but they are not he's doing. this in the middle of a six month long. War where people are just horrified by.

the conditions in Gaza and the Israeli. government is the one that is carrying. on this offensive but a lot of Jews a. lot of American Jews are really. conflicted because at the same time they. understand that Israel has a right to. defend itself against Hamas and I think. that Schumer is trying to give voice to. these. conflicted maybe middle of the road. politically American Jews who don't know.

what to think about Israel right now and. do probably love Israel the way he does. but also feel awful about the images. they're seeing from Gaza so this call. from Schumer for a new leader of Israel. is kind of his way of resolving that. internal conflict that people are. feeling but of course it's not clear if. that election will be called and even if. it were called it's not clear whether. Israelis would elect a new leader so I.

guess my question is what then Schumer's. speech does mention these other tools. that the US has at its disposal when. would Schumer be willing to use those. tools yeah I asked him about the. question of what then line you don't. want to seize fire but like what is. there like 30,000 more Palestinians dead. well I wouldn't I I'd say look isra no I. have to I just I said you know what's.

your red line should be what is the. civilian death toll that would have to. be reached for you to say we're pulling. this funding you said in your speech if. something doesn't change then there's. the threat of American rich I didn't I. didn't say conditions and I didn't say. um leverage I just said America's going. to look at it as a thing and you didn't. say exactly what no because they didn't. want to you didn't want to but what. would the scenario be where that would.

well I you'd have to see it I don't I. couldn't speculate on the future and he. didn't want to. say Well then why even give the speech. if Schumer is not willing to talk about. the real consequences for Israel if. there are no elections and if Israelis. don't end up removing Netanyahu from. office if he can't explain that why give. this speech I asked him that and he kept.

coming back to the fact that for him. this came from a deeply personal an. emotional place and a moral obligation. that is Central to him to speak up for. Jews and to stand up for the state of. Israel and he really dreads that. Israel's future its very existence could. be vulnerable in the same way that it. was when he was growing up and in a way. that he's worked throughout his entire. career to help fend off and in a way now.

Schumer at the Pinnacle of his power as. Senate Majority Leader could be. incapable of helping to fend off in the. future no I couldn't look myself in the. mirror if I didn't do it and then 3 four. months from now the US has turned on. Israel and people even my colleagues are. putting things conditions and stuff. which will hurt Israel I can't do it. couldn't do. it and I think that's his deep Terror. about Israel's future and that's why he.

felt called to do this speech now he. said before it's too. [Music]. late well Annie thank you very much we. appreciate it thank you. [Music]. Michael on Thursday Republican house. Speaker Mike Johnson said that in the. coming days he plans to invite Netanyahu. to address a joint session of Congress.

an invitation that would first have to. be approved by Senator. [Music]. Schumer we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. today Apple has maintained Monopoly. power in the smartphone market not. simply by staying ahead of the. competition on the merits but by. violating Federal antitrust law on.

Thursday the US government sued Apple. for violating anti-rust laws through. practices that it says were designed to. keep consumers reliant on Apple's iPhone. and unlikely to switch to a competing. device we allege that Apple has employed. a strategy that relies on exclusionary. anti-competitive conduct that hurts both. consumers and developers the lawsuit. alleges that Apple has blocked rival.

software developers and mobile gaming. companies from offering better options. on the iPhone resulting in higher prices. for consumers in response Apple said it. would vigorously defend itself in court. and warned that if successful the. government's lawsuit would hinder its. ability to make the technology that. customers. want today's episode was produced by. will Reed and Michael Simon Johnson with.

help from Eric krupy it was edited by. Mark George and paig cowt contains. original music by Dan Powell and Maran. Lozano and was engineered by Alysa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim runberg. and Ben lansberg of. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael babo see you on. Monday.