Black Voters and the Democratic Party: One Family’s Story

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. daily for decades black Americans formed. the backbone of the democratic party. voting by overwhelming margins for. Democratic candidates and while a. majority of black voters are expected to. enthusiastically cast their ballots for. kamla Harris Paul suggest that support. for her might be softening particularly. among black men.

the stakes of that Dynamic are highest. in the swing state of Georgia where in. 2020 black voters helped flip the state. blue for the first time in decades and. where this time Harris will need strong. black turnout to win the state and with. it potentially the. presidency today I travel to Georgia. with daily producers Lindsay Garrison. and Sydney Harper to speak with one. family whose experiences through the. decades tell the story of the.

relationship between black Americans and. the Democratic party and why some are. beginning to question that. [Music]. relationship it's Thursday October. 31st a few weeks ago we drove down to. the southwest corner of Georgia toward. the city of Albany it's a majority black. City and many families have lived there. for. Generations Lindsay Garrison is going to. tell the first half of the story.

for Irma Wilburn before there was. politics there was. segregation she was born in 1948 in. Fitzgerald Georgia a small town not too. far from. Albany her family worked for low wages. harvesting tobacco and collecting resin. from trees to make turpentine and. picking cotton cotton oh God I picked. cotton from the time I was able to walk. good they would make Little Flower sex. for little kids but yeah we started. doing that at a very early age as soon.

as she knew how to pick Irma's 76 now. she has warm eyes and a sharp memory was. probably one of her earliest ones is. remembering how first thing in the. morning a white man would drive up in. his pickup truck and IR or family would. pile into the back to begin the day's. work in the fields but um you know as a. child know my parents didn't talk about. racism or badmouth white folk or.

our relationship was basically just. working for them when Irma was little. the world she lived in was the Jim Crow. South that meant segregation in places. like schools stores and it meant many. black people weren't allowed to vote you. know at that young age I didn't question. it it was never a subject in the house. if the adults talked about it they only. talked about it to themselves but you. know I guess guess there was an element.

of fear. too I think they really tried to protect. us because they never would tell stories. of the things that would happen to them. so we never had to focus on that all we. had to focus on was school church and. family that was our life and then when. the Civil Rights Movement came to town. black people were waking up real. quick when Irma was a teenager in the.

summer of 1964 she remembers her Aunt. Mary coming home from college and. telling her and the other nieces and. nephews that it was time to change. things I mean she came directly to us it. was time to fight for their rights and. you kind of got swept up because you. were her nieces and nephew she know she. needed bodies out there so we. went with that Mary as the ring leader. they spent the summer going to marches s. they they threw one of those Molotov. cocktail bombs into the house it was a. violent time we sat in jail saying.

freedom songs she was arrested while. trying to desegregate the public library. and he points the gun at one time she. thought she was going to get shot he's. shaking she and some kids were sitting. on some steps outside when the newspaper. delivery man who was white pulled up and. pointed a gun at them this man is so. enraged that he's willing to kill. because of. integration but kept waking people up it. kept adding to the. battlecry and awoke up to at 15 I didn't.

fully understand the importance of. voting but I understood how important it. was enough that they didn't want us to. when you really understood it that's one. of the most important things of being a. citizen is to have that. right and finally Irma heard the news. that President Lyndon B Johnson was. about to sign the Voting Rights Act a. law that would put an end to racial.

discrimination and voting everybody was. so excited all of the these were sneak. workers he's going to sign the bill we. got to go out and it was urgent to start. getting people to come and register so. that day she and another activist named. Steve went around trying to register. people to vote she says they found some. people sitting on a porch of a house it. was owned by a white man who they also. worked for they were uneducated the kids. did not go to school they was raised to. work for.

Irma wanted to tell them you don't have. to read or right you can still register. to vote but she noticed how hesitant. they seemed and they wouldn't even look. up at us they kept their head down and I. kept trying to talk to them she saw one. of them keep looking off to the side and. so she followed his gaze the white man. they worked for was standing outside. with a shotgun I gu with a shotgun in. his hands was his that's when he. addressed Irma and Steve using a racial. slur he said he my [ __ ].

just like that ohoo my head started. pounding the blood rushed up so fast all. I could feel was Steve tugging me trying. to you know let's go let's go and just. like I hit a blind spot and he was just. dragged literally dragging I don't know. what I was going to do it just it hit me. so hard that this Joker thought he still. own people and I was. livid I never could have imagined you. know.

um but it made me very. determined to keep. [Music]. fighting today is a Triumph for. Freedom as huge as any Victory that's. ever been won on any. Battlefield yet to seize the meaning of. this. day we must recall dark.

times three and a half centuries ago do. you remember learning about the news. that the Voting Rights Act had passed. what was that like it was like winning. the football game you know you know. these Jokers that just pissed me off to. no end we won you know because of the. act that you have passed that I will. sign today did you feel like you were. part of that achievement for black. Americans across the country yeah yeah.

because we had been out working and. putting my life at risk that was one of. the important parts of that you know. what we were asking for so yes really. really happy that it. happened yeah an achievement. [Music]. yeah Irma and her family helped change. the country for millions of black. Americans they had momentum behind them.

and they wanted to use it to get more. change and in the 70s in Albany that's. what they did we had to get to the table. and the way to get to the table was. through the Democratic party was. everyone a Democrat was everyone. behind of course what was that like I. can imagine anybody being being a. republican in our family for Irma and so. many around her the Democratic party. have become completely fused together. with what they felt they'd accomplished. and what they wanted to accomplish.

through politics like voting and. desegregation LBJ was a Democrat and had. worked closely with Martin Luther King. Jr and all the white activists who. joined in the Civil Rights Movement were. also Democrats so being part of the. democratic party was a given just you. know it was just like sweet tea in the. South as opposed to unsweet. tea Democratic party is the sweet tea oh. yeah so they started organizing by this. Point Irma at Mary had become the first.

female black attorney in Albany she had. a yellow Law Office in the bustling. black business district in the city the. whole family would gather there to plan. various actions and campaigns it became. a power base of black Democratic. politics in the area and Albany itself. was a thriving place at the time jobs. were easy to come by with several. manufacturers opening plants in the city. we had never seen those kind of salaries. you know my husband came right out of. sharecropping almost.

the city was nicknamed good life City. and it really felt like that not only. were black residents getting more. economic Prosperity they were getting. more political power too and once again. Aunt Mary was at the Forefront of it all. and she decided to jump into politics. herself our job was to get those. leafless out knock on doors so she did. the same thing she did in the Civil. Rights Movement recruited her nieces and. nephews to help elector to office and by. this point many of those nieces and. nephews were grown and now had children.

of their own I'd be marching with them. in my belly one on my. hand the family had built an army of. Democrats Democrat all day all day. Michael is Irma's oldest son he was just. a small child in the 70s born into this. supercharged Democratic family and that. meant he and his other cousins would. campaign for Aunt Mary too oh yeah from. the time I old enough to walk you know I. mean all of my cousins we all did this. we all wrote in the Michael said all of. his cousins were Pile in the back of a.

pickup truck you know there' be some guy. Mr somebody would be driving a truck y'. make sure y'all sitting down in the back. now cuz you know we about to pull off. they turn the radio on wjis 96.3 play. music Ain't No Stopping Us Now we on the. Move shout from the megaphone vote for. Mary you know and and begin the day's. work of door knocking hello how you. doing my name is Michael and I'm working. with Mary Young's campaign she's running. for City Commissioner and we would like. you to come out and vote for Mar young.

did your Aunt Mary win the election oh. yeah she did in 1975 Mary young Cummings. along with another black candidate. became the first black City. commissioners in. Albany was your mom proud of you that. you were doing this do you remember were. you aware of what your mom thought of. all of. this I think so I think so I think she. was proud of us you know I don't know. that she. necessarily felt proud of doing this. work because this was such a norm in the.

family that this is just kind of what. you did we were movement babies and so. it was just a given that we were going. to push these ideals forward part of. growing up as a movement baby was. overhearing his mom recollect the. stories of the Civil Rights Movement. with her brothers and sisters you know. the stories that were told that Michael. would overhear conversations about the. violence the arrests the fear being. jailed but Irma said she would also talk. to Michael directly she wanted him to. understand the lesson she learned from.

that time about the things that mattered. most we talked a lot about Martin Luther. King and nonviolent principle After. experiencing so much violence herself. and then seeing the assassinations of. JFK and MLK she wanted him to understand. the importance of Peace a value that ML. and other activists preached and she. also wanted him to understand the. importance of voting because his own. family fought for it did hearing those. stories teach you anything about who you.

were who your family was oh yeah yeah. um we're very proud of my family that I. feel like it empowered me it made me. feel capable made me feel like I was. part of of a legacy of people who were. trying to do good in the world you know. we felt like Heroes you know or we came. from. Heroes and my mom was definitely one of. them. if you look at the uh Footprints these.

Footprints commemorate the Marchers from. the Albany movement that marched up here. what's going on sir you doing all right. while in Albany we met with Demetrius. young one of Michael's cousins he was. born and raised here and now serves as a. City Commissioner well I just wanted to. show them something they doing he agreed. to take us around to show us how Albany. has changed since Irma's. time so right along here were a lot of. of historic black businesses this used.

to have restaurants and shops and. different things so when the. neighborhood that was once busy and. electric decades ago has changed this. was the uh Ritz Theater this was the. black theater it looks like there's a. plywood over the door yeah yeah there. there has been some damage to it now. this neighborhood is quiet you kind of. full of empty brick storefronts this. building right here on this corner this. yellow house was my mother's Old Law.

Office oh W yeah um herma at Mary the. Mary who recruited her into the Civil. Rights Movement is demetrius's mother. but uh we can get out right here and. this was her law office that place that. used to be a hub of black Democratic. politics in Albany you would see kids. running out of here playing on the. ground and shooting marbles right here. on the thing and some community meeting. going on in the back but the creamy. paint is chipping the big front porch.

appears to be caving in the ornate. lattice work is broken when were the. bars put on the windows to I want to say. that was in the 80s when it got pretty. bad during the crack epidemic getting. broken into every night you know it was. pretty bad it was pretty bad once upon a. [Music]. time I think if you grew up around that. time you remember all of a sudden it's. like crack hit with a Vengeance we had.

never seen anything like it how fast do. you think it took over how fast was the. change it was it felt overnight it felt. like it was you know it was. devastating Michael was a teenager when. cracks started flowing into the streets. of Albany in the. 80s it would be the first and a long. series of devastating events over the. following decades the manufacturing. plants that had afforded people a. middleclass life started moving out of. the city and that was only made worse by.

the North American Free Trade Agreement. which was signed into law by President. Bill Clinton Clinton also signed the 94. crime Bill Joe Biden who was a Senator. back then was a big supporter of it it. mandated harsh sentences for low-level. drug offenses worsening incarceration. rates for men of color and then came the. housing crash in 2007 in the financial. crisis that followed people were losing. their homes you know see happen to. people that I knew I was Michael was.

living in Atlanta at the time but all he. saw around him were people struggling. cousin he had one cousin in Albany was. hit particularly hard yeah they went. through it they went through a lot he. lost his house and it happened to like. three or four other people that I know. seem to be really prevalent in this part. of the country and it all seemed to be. young black people and it felt unfair to. him that the country was spending so. much money on a war in Iraq when the. black people around him and and his own. family were struggling to survive like.

no these were hardworking people you. know these were people that had jobs. these were people he and his family. blamed it on President Bush on. Republican policies we were all really. uptight I mean between things felt. uncertain but then I stand before you. today to announce my candidacy for. president of the United States of. America Barack Obama ran for. president oh my my God oh my God that.

was amazing that made me so excited I I. recognize that there is a certain. presumptuousness in this a certain. audacity to this announcement wow yeah. okay wow this is it I know that I. haven't spent a lot of time learning the. ways of Washington but I've been there. long enough to know that the ways of. Washington must change there was no. doubt in my mind that under the. leadership of Barack Obama the plight of.

African-Americans would. improve was it kind of like black. Americans have been loyal voters of the. democratic party since the Civil Rights. Movement since your mom's coming of age. and now now is the time that these. dividends you know will really pay off. like now is our time oh you hit that. right on the head that was very much the. the the feeling and the vibe if you will.

amongst my family amongst my friends I. remember going into the polling. place and I remember all of the black. people and even though you know they're. not talking you can feel it everybody's. just like oh wow this is it we're. getting to do this and I remember you. know the slightly older black woman and. she's one of the polling workers and I. remember her giving me this kind of. knowing smile like all right baby go on. in and vote let's do that you know what.

I mean and it's like yes ma'am let's do. this yes we. can America we have come so far we have. seen so much but there's so much more to. do so tonight let us ask. ourselves if our children should live to. see The Next Century what change will. they see what progress will we have. made this is our chance to answer that.

call This is Our. [Applause]. [Music]. Moment Michael once he was. elected what were you hoping to see him. do what kind of change were you hoping. he would. bring. ah ah the Heartbreak oh the the. Heartbreak oh the Heartbreak was so it. was so Swift it was so Swift yeah the.

balloon popped really quick and it was. like oh oh well none of the things I had. hoped for were going to happen with this. President as Obama began his term. Michael felt the policies he was. enacting were essentially an extension. of the Bush era instead of providing. relief to people who'd lost their homes. during the housing crisis Obama approved. industry bailouts Michael was in. disbelief he felt people like his cousin. needed help not big businesses and when.

it came to foreign policy Michael says. Obama acted like the conservative War. Hawks he' railed against during the. campaign like when he intervened in. Libya and plunged that country even. further into chaos Obama also signed a. renewal of the Patriot Act a bush era. law that allowed for more government. surveillance of American. citizens and finally when protest. erupted in Obama's second term when a. white police officer killed Michael. Brown in Ferguson Missouri Obama never.

visited for a President Who campaigned. on Hope and change Michael didn't feel. much of it at all in fact he felt like. the party was moving to the. right it. felt it felt like a betrayal I think by. the time Obama was out of office I felt. like. the. party was no longer the Democratic. party they weren't Democrats the way I.

knew Democrats to be so yeah it was it. was disappointing it very it was very. disappointing that during my lifetime in. my generation we had lost a lot of. impact we had lost the ability to. influence that change that we could get. people in office but that we could not. force that change anymore. [Music].

I don't know if. I expected a whole lot as far as real. tangible changes cuz that was. realistic but the fact that he made it. in you know that in itself was the. achievement a victory for the. dreamers for Michael's mother Irma. Obama's Ascension to the presidency was.

the ultimate sign of black progress that. ultimate seat at the table that she and. so many others had fought for since the. Civil Rights. era it felt like a crowning achievement. of her. [Music]. generation and for Michael his. presidency also marked a major. moment but it was a moment of such. profound. disappointment that it led him to. question if it achieved anything at all. and in Albany that same question has.

left a generation of Voters searching. for new. [Music]. answers after the break Sabrina picks up. the rest of the story.

did y'all go downtown here to Ray. Charles Plaza and all of that no no oh. no okay got to get that. in driving around Albany with Demetrius. there's a lot that people are proud of. they have a state-of-the-arts Civil. Rights Museum that marks the history. that was made here they have an HBCU. that's top ranked in the state but. Demetrius told us that after taking all. of those hits over the decades there are. neighborhoods that are still struggling. like his own but this is uh South Albany.

this is my w this is Ward. 6 how how would you describe this area. Demetrius like word. sex um it's a uh primarily a a lowincome. community some people you know don't. have a lot but there are still f a third. of people live in poverty one of the. highest rates of any city in Georgia. they moved a lot of the schools out of.

this area we a majority of school. children come from homes that qualify. for government assistance we only got. two grocery stores for this entire side. of town many neighborhoods don't have. any grocery stores where people can buy. fresh food but we got you know liquor. stores and convenience stores and all. kind of [ __ ] Demetrius even had to. fight off a liquor store that was set to. open in his neighborhood like who the. hell thought it was a good idea to put a. liquor store in the middle of this. neighborhood this was you know when the. pandemic hit Albany had one of the.

highest per capita death rates in the. nation most were black residents where. we were literally watching people die. every day who's dead next who's dead. next Demetrius says that some people. feel like their only relief from the. government lately came during the Donald. Trump Administration when stimulus. checks were sent out as covid was. crashing the economy the money was. pushed forward by democrats in Congress. but Trump's name was on the checks and. so many people gave him credit for that. relief and that money was meaningful to. people it helped people buy groceries.

and pay bills you didn't have to sweat. you know paying your light bills or. paying for medicine you know you where. you got to make those type of. choices you could. get and it was right around this time. that one of his cousins suggested to the. family in a group chat that it might be. worth looking at what Republicans had to. offer that started talking about you. know we need to be with the Republicans. or we need to talk to the Republicans. and this kind of stuff and I was like.

looking at him like you know what family. you in or you you lost your mind you. know and he really took a lot of excuse. my friends he took a lot of [ __ ] for it. you know I mean we be in family group. chat and everybody was you know banging. him hard like what are you you lost your. mind what are you talking about now I do. think I do think there is an amount of. alienation that a lot of young black.

males are feeling because you know they. see a lot of young black women being. elevated they don't see more or less a. space for them within the larger. Democratic left. leaning Machinery um so I see these. young black men with a lot of energy to. do. things but they're not being. engaged cuz you know with my cousin he. took a a lot of lot of [ __ ] from our.

family instead of everybody kind of. asking him why it was just like. everybody we actually talked to that. cousin he didn't want to be recorded but. he told us about his life growing up in. Georgia he said his mother struggled. with addiction and so he had to be sent. away his father was incarcerated and he. blamed democrats for that because they. helped pass the 1994 crime Bill and to. him that felt like a betrayal and he. started looking more at the Republican. part party he said he liked its. conservative values he liked the way the.

party talked about traditional families. and keeping families. together. [Music]. ready reporters from The New York Times. my name is Sabrina yeah walking around. Albany we heard this from other people. too this openness to Republicans and to. Donald Trump sorry we're interrupting. your haircut we went into some barber. shops and spoke to the men. there I'm saying I feel like okay boom. yes he's got locked up and all this but.

he's still running for president we. talked to a young man who' been. incarcerated and he told us since Trump. also has a felony if he wins it could. maybe change the conversation around. people with criminal records and he's. going to be our president and y'all mean. to tell me I'm a felon I can't get a job. like what the hell that's what I feel. like does that give you hope I mean be. president yeah it can give hope because. it should give hope because like just F. he's a president bro you can go do it.

like you feel me anybody can get a job I. feel like that was cop TI when never. Clos oh uh the tire the tire company I. would retire 2 years ago we talked to. another man who'd lost his job at a tire. factory he said he was 2 years from. retirement when it closed down and so. now he's cutting hair for less money and. he doesn't know when he's going to be. able to. retire do you think that Trump will help. yeah yeah yeah really by in our. reporting we called dozens of black men. across Georgia and heard story after.

Story like this of people who are. frustrated with their prospects right. now especially their place in the. economy and this is an issue where. according to polls voters tend to prefer. Trump some men we talk to had different. reasons um has there ever been a woman. president like besides in America no. that's what's going to scare me like. that's that's that's kind of scary like. damn they said they didn't think a woman. could be president me but I'm talking. about or Worse circumstances like I. don't know if if we get into it I don't.

know if she's going to be able to put. down force and be firm on like like like. as a male would do. like but but you're you're worried that. maybe she can't and that's why you. wouldn't far I. mean well basically yeah I have my doubt. [Music].

what do you make Demetrius of young. black voters who are voting for Trump. like but in talking to Demetrius about. this he says he isn't very concerned I. just don't think that's a real thing. he's skeptical that the men who like. Trump will actually turn out to vote for. him and he says there's always been a. small contingent of black voters who are. open to Republicans so instead of. focusing on that he says there's a. deeper question the Democratic party.

needs to be asking itself right now to. me what is a more of a pointed question. is why kamla is not I guess inspiring. the. same excitement from young people that. Obama did and I think there's a lot of. reasons for that you know if you're not. getting something cuz a lot of folks. feel they're not getting anything from. the Democratic party you know they felt. some folks feel like they didn't get. anything anything from Obama and I'm. talking about tangible stuff um but do.

you understand why they think. that I think that's because they saw it. that's what they. see that's what they see you go through. eight years of a black. mayor 8 years of a black female mayor. Obama face. change the representation of. change and the south side of. Albin is still looking the same that's. what they grew up.

under what Demetrius is pointing to is. that for some people here representation. hasn't necessarily translated into. meaningful. change younger Generations grew up with. a black president and they've seen black. leaders Ascend locally here too Albany. elected its first black Democratic mayor. in 2004 a majority of the city. commission today is black but that. representation hasn't done much to solve. the deep root rooted problems that. people have faced here so a lot of them.

the Young. Folks politics doesn't work government. is not going to do anything that's their. reality and so now they're saying okay. that wasn't really changed for. [Music]. me what does it feel like to be the. person you are having been in the Civil. Rights movement fought for the right to. vote Democrat all your life what what.

does it feel like to see black Americans. vote Republican or vote for Trump or. does it make me feel it it it it kind of. angers. me you know it angers me because they. you know because I think they're stupid. you know I think they're just taking up. airspace doing something stupid. particular if you're black but maybe. they didn't have parents or grand. parents that taught them. anything so maybe they don't really have.

a a point that they can come from that. would make them not vulnerable to a. trump for Irma the choice in this. election is very clear why are you. voting for kamla Harris. Why I'mma vote for her because she's a. Democrat I'm a vote for she's a Democrat. she doesn't understand people who are. turning their backs on the party right. now whether be voting for Trump staying. home or voting third party what does.

that make you feel those people who are. doing that not voting a voting third. party I don't know that I think they. have a shallow kind. of understanding about about where we. are as a. country I don't think they see the. gravity of um where we. are if they vote third party they just. throwing away to vote you know.

what do you think your mom would say if. you didn't vote for Harris and she found. out about it she would be disappointed. she might even be angry she would. definitely call me foolish Irma's own. son Michael is feeling conflicted about. whether to vote for. Harris tough one tough one I have no. idea I know how much my vote counts in a. in a state like Georgia where you got to. State I know how important it.

is but if I had to vote today I would. probably be voting third. party yeah would it be the first time. you didn't vote for a democrat in a. presidential. election. yes she doesn't make me feel good she. doesn't he has his reasons for not. supporting Harris for one he says when. she was announced as a democratic. nominee he was frustrated by how the.

party went about it I felt like we had. no choice we had no say you either get. this or you get you know crazy orange. guy you know like we were being held. hostage but more importantly he. disagrees with a lot of her policies one. example is the US handling of the war in. Gaza which is a conflict he's been. watching closely he didn't like how she. shushed Pro Palestinian protesters or. bragged about America having the most. lethal military in the world he sees her.

approach to the war as essentially an. extension of President Biden's approach. and the latest example of the party's. longer drift. rightward more broadly he sees her. entire candidacy as more of the same you. know here's some ideas here's a child. you know tax credit here's some money. we're going to invest here to kind of. stimulate some jobs we're going to build. some homes okay you know and uh other. than that it'll be the same and so when.

some of his friends reached out asking. him to help with the Harris campaign he. refused I don't want to do any of that I. don't really feel good about this what. are the. policies and that was like the wrong. question to ask he says the conversation. got heated I got it from a couple of. different angles really quick and they. accused him of being a misogynist I. expected better of you and how could you. hate on the sister you know when she's. trying to make change and and his. questions around Harris had some. gotten him lumped in with Trump. supporters anti-black woman not.

protecting the black woman not listening. to the black woman or people who don't. think a woman could be president that's. not true of me because the the message. is if you don't vote for kamla then. you're voting for. Trump if you're not voting for kamla. then you are voting against me have you. talked to them since no I don't plan on. it I mean know I don't I'm not holding a. grudge I just need this election to be.

over we'll have conversations after the. election you know. so does your mom know about your. reticence over Harris have you told her. I haven't really told her I she she. knows a little bit I think she knows. that I'm not uh as excited as she is and.

I kind of think her excitement is a. little. misplaced I think she knows that about. me but I think that's about as far as it. goes I haven't had a real conversation. with about politics with her and and why. not probably three months H I just don't. want to I don't want to have to I don't. want to have to argue my. points and I know she'd be I know she. would feel. disappointed why would she feel. disappointed um.

I'm someone who has been raised with. understanding the importance of voting. with understanding how many people. sacrifice for us to have this right to. participate in the process and so to. give that vote away to use that vote in. a way that could possibly hurt a. candidate like kamla Harris you know it. kind of goes against what. my people have decided majority of my.

people have decided that this is you. know what we're doing and for me to. vote um against Harris would be a little. bit of a. betrayal it would. be at this point you either have. hope or no hope and if you have no. hope you know. I mean what can I say I can't give you.

hope at this. point. um because like I said you have to see. it you really have to see. it but you still have. hope yeah I I I have I have to have hope. yeah. [Music]. yeah it felt like in all the. conversations we had with Irma and. Michael we were listening to two.

generations talk past each other about. Hope and where you find it for Irma hope. is fused with the Democratic party this. vessel through which black people. achieve something that had felt almost. impossible in her lifetime I think I was. just very disillusioned with politics in. general and she hears this. disillusionment with politics like. Michael is expressing as a kind of. Abandonment of that hope. but Michael sees it differently I'm.

wanting more I'm I'm wanting to see more. I'm wanting to see a lot more I'm. expecting more as a generation of a. recipient of those hard one victories we. should expect Beyond symbolism we should. expect more is is that a sign of. progress then to want more I would think. so yes I would say that that that that. is a sign of progress that you would. want you would want more that we should. expect more in the actual way of. wielding that.

power it's one thing to to have the. office it's another thing to actually. use that office for the benefit of. people Michael's hope is that that. disillusionment can eventually spark. change it seems like from all the. conversations we've had with voters. people are looking for that change in. different ways they're voting for Trump. they're voting Republican they're voting. third party they're not voting at all do.

you think those defections from the. Democratic party are also a sign of. progress. hm I don't know that's a good question I. guess in some ways you could see it as a. sign of progress I guess in some ways. that you know they. saying we want to change some things. we're not able to affect that change. within this organization so we're going. to try to start we're going to engage in. a different organization we're going to.

move differently that sounds. like the desire to make. change but in this election having that. kind of hope is a high stake. scamble it also could lead to Trump. winning very very very easily could lead. to Trump winning and especially I. mean State like Georgia that's a tough. call and you want to. respect the elders you want to respect.

their their sacrifices you don't want to. see rights taken away from people yeah. it's it's. um for me personally that's a tough call. that's a real tough call I I don't I. might not make that decision until I'm. literally in the booth. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you should know. today vice president kamla Harris tried. to distance herself from President Joe.

Biden after he made muddled remarks that. appeared to insult supporters of former. president Donald Trump Biden was. responding to remarks made by a comedian. who spoke at Trump's rally on Sunday. night and referred to Puerto Rico as. quote a floating island of garbage in a. video call with Hispanic supporters on. Tuesday night Biden tried to denounce. that language but garbled his words. saying quote the only garbage I see.

floating out there is his supporters the. White House later argued that he was. describing the racist language as. garbage not Trump supporters but the. remarks went viral and Drew intense. criticism from the Trump Campaign which. tried to tie them to Hillary Clinton. calling some Trump supporters. deplorables in. 2016 today's episode was reported by. Lindsay Garrison and Sydney Harper with. help from Maya King Carlos PR and Clare.

tennis gter it was produced by Lindsay. Sydney and Carlos edited by Rachel quer. with help from Ben Calhoun Paige cowt. and MJ Davis Lynn fact checked by Susan. Lee contains original music by Alicia. baup Dan Powell Marian Lozano Rowan Nimo. and Leah Shaw damaran and was engineered. by Chris Wood and Alysa Moxley our theme.

music is by Jim brunberg and Ben Lanser. of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina tavernes see you tomorrow. [Music].