Biden Supports Israel. Does the Rest of America?

from The New York Times I'm Michael. babro this is the. [Music]. da today in a major new poll the times. tries to understand how Americans really. feel about the war in Gaza President. Biden's role in the conflict and perhaps. most revealingly about the state of. Israel it.

self my colleague Jonathan Weisman. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. explains it's Friday December. [Music]. 22nd jonan the war between Israel and. Hamas has become and I'm not telling you. anything you don't already know a source.

of profound division in the United. States you can see that from the. protests on college campuses and in big. cities from the strong emotions that are. pouring forth on social media and from. the political conversation in Washington. and yet it's been very hard to actually. measure any of it but the times has now. tried to do just that that's right we. went out to try to ascertain where. Americans as a whole are and we talked.

to registered voters and we asked them. two sets of questions one about how. President Biden is handling this. conflict and the other about Israel. itself and Israel's handling of its war. against Hamas in Gaza okay well let's. start with what the poll found when it. comes to the first of those two areas of. questions how Americans see President. Biden's handling of the war I mean Reg.

voters clearly disapprove of the way. President Biden has been handling this. conflict. 57% say they disapprove and only 33%. said they approved of the way the. president has been handling the war in. Gaza so what exactly does this poll. reveal about what's behind those High. disapproval numbers on the one hand. those numbers are striking because. Israel is historically such a close Ally. of the US and Biden has been so. unwavering ly supportive of it on the.

other hand it's perhaps not that. surprising at all because of how much. anger Israel's retaliation for October. 7th the extremely high death toll in. Gaza has inspired among Americans well. the signals being sent to President. Biden are decidedly mixed you have 44%. saying end the war now regardless of. whether the hostages have been released. or not but nearly the same number 30 9%.

saying no they want Israel to keep. pressing their war on Hamas until either. all of the hostages are out or Hamas has. been destroyed so that shows a real. split in where Americans actually are. well how do you make sense of that. because those do seem like confusing. signals a majority disapproving of the. president's handling but then a pretty. even split between what they want him to. actually do that signals how he might.

get out of their disapproval It's tricky. because that 57% that disapprove of the. way Biden is handling it is divided. itself some of those people say Biden. has been too pro-israel and some other. people think that Biden is too. supportive of the Palestinians and maybe. not being tough enough on Hamas okay so. how does this broad disapproval and this. more or less even split among voters. over what they want Biden to do how does. it break down by party well let's look.

at Republicans 93% of Republicans. disapprove broadly of the way President. Biden is doing his job but. 78% disapprove of the way Biden is. handling the Israeli Palestinian. conflict huh so as you see there is a. drop off right more approve of his. actions toward Israel than approve of. him in general why is that well you know. among Republicans Israel is a just a. more popular political entity so if Joe.

Biden is broadly perceived as being. pro-israel a certain number of. Republicans will give him credit for. that right okay so what about Democrats. and their views of how he's handling the. war it's kind of the converse I mean the. fact is Biden has pretty much. Consolidated support among Democrats. eight out of 10 Democrats support the. way President Biden is handling his job. but on the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

just over half approve of the way he's. handling it that's a very big gap yes so. whereas Biden's approach to the war is. pulling slightly better with Republicans. than he's polling with them. overall with Democrats he's pulling. worse on his approach to the war than. he's pulling with Democrats overall. which is really fascinating basically he. has disillusioned his own party with the. way he has handled the conflict that's.

right and that's in part a reflection of. the generation gap within the Democratic. party Democrats skew young and young. people really really feel badly about. the way this war is being handled and. about the conduct that Israel is. engaging in in Gaza okay same more about. that it feels very important to. understanding this poll remember in July. when the the times last ped voters on.

how they're feeling these young voters. between the ages of 18 and 29 sided with. Joe Biden over Donald Trump by 10. percentage points now this young. demographic is siding with Trump by six. percentage points that's a huge flip. okay Jonathan does the poll allow you to. truly. attribute that phenomenon of young. voters essentially starting to flee. Biden and to some extent flipping over. to Trump which is not entirely intuitive.

to the war because we know from past. polling that Biden was losing support. with young people so that was already. kind of a trajectory so how should we. think about that it's very difficult to. tease out all of the factors and you. know when you look at the poll overall. if you ask people what their dominant. concerns are it's still the economics. and their impression of the economy is. certainly coloring their views of. president President Biden the economic.

picture is actually improving but. between July and now we've had the. October 7th attack by Hamas on Israelis. and the ensuing War so you have these. two factors playing at the same time and. it seems to me that the war in Gaza is. just a millstone around Biden's neck. preventing a comeback among those. younger voters right something very big. changed since July and it wasn't as. you're saying really the economy it was.

a war in Gaza that President Biden has. articulated pretty much unwavering moral. support for but what about older voters. I'm going to deduce because you haven't. said that older voters like younger. voters are turning on Biden over this. war that they're not and that's a pretty. important group of Voters for Biden. traditionally 65 and up is the voting. block that votes most that is.

consistently at the polls and for those. people 52% approve of the way Biden is. handling the conflict against 40% who. disapprove those aren't huge numbers but. if you look at all the age brackets. that's pretty remarkable considering 30%. approve among Gen X voters 26 approve. among 30 to 44 year olds Millennials and. only 20% approve of Biden handling of.

the conflict among 18 to 29 year olds. 20% so if you're Joe Biden and you're. thinking well what am I supposed to do. you could look at that 52% and say well. those guys vote should I change course. and alienate 65 year olds and up who. like what I'm doing it's a tough. decision for the President right because. there's a bit of a damned if you do D if. you don't if the president were to be. highly responsive to young voters who. have sour on his handling of the war he.

risks alienating older voters who. haven't so there's no blindingly obvious. course of action for President Biden in. terms of public opinion and turning it. around and so perhaps Biden's most. logical answer is to do what it seems he. has been doing since October 7th which. is to kind of follow his Instinct even. if that ends up alienating some young. voters there's no real evidence at all. that President Biden is shaping his.

policy according to politics or the will. of the people right and given the damned. if you do damned if you don't message. from this Poll for President Biden you. know we know that this war is going to. wind down for no other reason than the. United States wants it to wind down so. as a long-term political conundrum he. can wait it. out the real message that we learned.

from this. poll has more to do with how Americans. view Israel and their country's. relationship with it and what that means. for the Jewish state in the long. [Music]. run we'll be right back.

[Music]. okay jonan what exactly does this poll. tell us about how Americans view Israel. and America's relationship to Israel you. mentioned before the break that the real. meaning of this poll is not how. Americans think of Biden in this moment. but how they think of Israel so describe. what the poll actually found. now if you look overall Americans do.

have positive feelings about Israel they. are more sympathetic to the Israelis. than the. Palestinians and in general they want. America to side with Israel to supply. Israel with arms and aid but when you. look at young voters the change is. dramatic very few of them believe Israel. is serious about peace with the. Palestinians nearly half say Israel is.

intentionally killing civilians that is. a bad sign I mean that's a bad thing to. do and nearly three quarters say Israel. is not taking enough precautions to. avoid civilian. casualties a majority of those young. voters actually oppose additional and. economic military aid that portend a. huge shift in America's relationship. with Israel right and so what you're.

left with is a very clear understanding. that this younger group of Americans I. in a sense America's future is very. skeptical of Israel and maybe skeptical. isn't even the right word for it not. strong enough word for it based on what. you just said they disapprove of its. conduct yes and what's remarkable is. that there is a linear progression of. this ill will coming as you go down from. the older generations to the youngest.

Generations well just explain that this. concept of a linear progression here so. if you're from the silent generation. like Joe Biden you're over 70 80 years. old that means you were alive during the. Holocaust and the founding of Israel you. maybe know people who live through those. defining moments and you're more likely. to have a strong feeling about the need. for Israel and the US to support it. remember the United States was the first.

nation in the world to recognize Israel. as a sovereign country in. 1948 the baby boom generation might not. have been old enough to remember the. establishment of the Israeli state but. they do remember. 1967 and the six- day war in which. Israel fended off attacks from all of. its Arab neighbors and looked heroic. they remember the 1973 War. the Yum kapor War when a sneak attack.

nearly destroyed Israel and at that time. America's support for Israel was. unquestioned and copious that's when you. started seeing year after year Congress. without question allocating more Aid to. Israel than any country in the. world Generation X may not have seen. those Wars but but they saw a peace.

process they saw Israeli governments. vacillate between liberal and. conservative and Israelis seemed serious. about reaching some kind of Peace Accord. with their Arab neighbors and with the. Palestinians that would lead to two. Nations side by side reaching some kind. of settlement and what does that do for. the view of generation X toward Israel.

so Generation X might not have as. monolithic support as much older. Generations but generation x members. still tend to favor Israelis over. Palestinians about 57% in our poll said. they are more sympathetic to the. Israelis than the Palestinians in the. current conflict so for this generation. you remember Bill Clinton shuttling. between the United States from. Washington to Tel Aviv you remember the.

Oslo Accords and for an American. president peace between Israel and. Palestine is kind of the brass ring the. thing that you want the most right okay. so what's what's next then we move on to. Millennials Millennials remember of. course 911 and a sense that the Middle. East is a divisive place a place where.

Americans are fighting there is a. division in Americans about whether or. not our troops our money and resources. should even be dumping into this area. and Millennials don't remember a peace. process what they remember is the rise. of the right in Israel Benjamin. Netanyahu becoming a fixture of Israeli. politics and bluntly declaring that he.

doesn't want a two-state solution he. doesn't want peace with the Palestinians. their sense Millennial sense is that he. wants to crush them right and so here we. see an important turning point in that. linear progression you described just a. couple moments ago Millennial Americans. have a profoundly different experience. of Israel with their own eyes than the. silent generation who watched Israel be. born or the baby boomer generation that.

watched this little country that could. and somehow overcome its bigger Arab. Rivals armies this feels like a very. important moment it is and we see it in. the numbers if you look at our poll the. ages between 30 and 44 only 36% say that. they are more sympathetic toward Israel. than the Palestinians in the current. conflict 36% that is a linear decline.

from the older generations and that. leads us to the current generation the. 18 to 29 year olds with the 18 to 29. year olds only. 27% said they sympathized with Israelis. 46% said they sympathized with the. Palestinians this is the first. generation in which that split is so. decisive in the Palestinian favor they. don't remember peace processes they only.

remember an Israel that is powerful that. is not interested in peace with the. Palestinians they see a bullying. superpower in the Middle East and they. don't like it so what a meaningful. number of this generation Generation Z. how they see Israel is less and less as. a a victim as previous generations did.

and instead increasingly see Israel as a. victimizer that's right and they look at. what's happening in Washington with. their government and they see US. military a to Israel as increasingly. important and increasingly identifiable. for instance if you look at Iron Dome. this missile defense system in Israel. it's built and engineered with help from. the United States. the missiles that shoot down missiles.

being fired at Israel especially from. Hamas parts of those missiles are made. in America there is a sense that America. is deeply entrenched in Israel and. Israel is not a nation that these. youngest voters sympathize with and now. you're starting to see mainstream. Democrats not from The Fringe left but. the center of the party at least talk. talking about attaching conditions to.

military aid to Israel such conditions. are routine with other countries I mean. we've been attaching conditions to Aid. to Pakistan for decades but with Israel. that support has always been. unconditional this is a very big change. for us Israel relations and just to. bring it back to the poll Jonathan each. generation's. experience seems to be projected onto. this moment and that's how you get this. linear progression decline of American.

support for Israel that's right politics. are personal and the way somebody some. voter experiences history will impact. his or her feelings about political. issues and ultimately Aid to Israel is a. political issue and I think right we can. project forward only so much I mean the. fact is that somebody who's 25 years old.

may feel differently in the future but. the numbers are so dramatic when you see. only. 27% of this age cohort sympathizing with. Israel you have to think that there will. be residual impacts as these people grow. into the power structure of the United. States right and the natural conclusion. of everything you have just described in. this poll is that when they are running. the country they will bring a fair.

amount of skepticism toward Israel and. so the question becomes is Israel. prepared to live in a world where us. support is meaningfully lower where. strings and conditions are attached or. even in a world where it doesn't really. have much us support or if it's not. willing to live in that world will it do. we think make it a priority to appeal to. these younger Americans in order to. maintain us support going forward. I think this is a huge question for.

Israel you know there are voices in. Israel that very much want to go at. alone that say we will do what we need. to do to survive and we don't care what. the International Community says those. people were already willing to challenge. or actually thumb their nose at America. remember Netanyahu at one time went. around Barack Obama's back and add. Congress at the invitation of.

Republicans he was willing to have. ruptures in the US Israel support system. right and it's very possible that. Netanyahu was willing to do what he did. to Obama because on some level he. believed and he has a lot of reason to. believe it that the United States would. never really punish him or Israel for. that defiant and insulting act to Obama. because its commitment is so deep right. and that was a long time ago you know if. we look at generation to generation we.

see how events that that generation. lived. through really impacted that. generation's view of us Israel relations. well young voters of today had already. started souring on an Israel led by. Benjamin Netanyahu and now this. generation now has its seminal event and. that seminal event the war in Gaza. is not creating an impression to turn.

that erosion. around I want to try to end this. conversation by bringing all of this. together how Americans are viewing. Biden's handling of the war the first. half of our conversation and this second. half how they are viewing Israel the. current Dynamic of a US president who is. as supportive of Israel as Biden is and. what Israel's current government is is. doing and how it approaches this war and.

the world this right-wing government. when you put those together it suggests. that the disillusionment of Young. Americans is quite likely to deepen and. that it will very likely accelerate what. could become a deeply strained dynamic. between the United States and Israel. that's possible and that's one way to. look at it but remember before the Hamas. attacks on Israel. Israel itself was deeply divided.

hundreds of thousands of Israelis were. in the streets calling for Netanyahu to. step down or to change course and now. right 76% of Israelis disapprove of the. job Netanyahu is doing they want him. gone so there could be a major major. shift coming out of this war in Israel. itself that right might might rejuvenate. a sense of Israel as a thriving.

democracy that could seek some solution. between the Israelis and the. Palestinians after this horrible. horrible war and basically you're saying. that well we're not accounting for In. This Moment is the kind of profound. internal change in Israel that might. result from this war and from perhaps. the removal of the Netanyahu government. which seems very possible what you just. laid out and that successor government.

with a new set of incentives and. priorities might as you said might. change the way that younger Americans. see Israel Israel is a young and dynamic. democracy it certainly has its flaws. some people might even say those flaws. are so profound that it isn't a. democracy but Israel has found its way. forward when it faced existential. questions.

but when this war ends Israel. understands that this kind of blood. leing on both sides in which according. to officials on each side about 20,000. Palestinians have lost their lives and. at least 1,200 Israelis have lost their. lives this cannot be the new norm and. for the United States the US also has to. re-calibrate its approach to Israel that.

is perhaps more complicated than the. unquestioned support that we've seen for. decades. now well Jonathan thank you very much. thank. [Music]. you we'll be right back. [Music].

here's what else you need to another day. on Thursday a gunman killed at least 15. people in and around the Czech Republic. capital of Prague in one of the worst. mass killings in Europe in nearly a. decade most of the victims were killed. on the campus of Charles University in. central Prague police said that the.

shooter is now dead but offered no. motive for his actions and Rudy Giuliani. filed for bankruptcy on Thursday after a. judge ordered him to begin paying nearly. $150 million in Damages to two former. Georgia election workers for spreading. lies that they had tried to steal the. 2020 election from Donald Trump Giuliani.

the former mayor of New York City was. found liable in August for defaming the. two workers when he baselessly claimed. that they tried to manipulate ballots in. Fulton. [Music]. County today's episode was produced by. Olivia nck and Michael Simon Johnson. with help from Alex Stern it was edited. by Lexi Di and paig C. fact checked by Susan Lee contains.

original music by Pat mccusker and was. engineered by Chris Wood our theme music. is by Jim runberg and Ben lfk of. [Music]. [Music]. wonderl that's it for the daily I'm. Michael Boro see you on Tuesday after. the. [Music].

holiday.