An Interview With the President

All righty. We are on our way up through. the West Wing, past the press. secretary's office, past the uh cabinet. room, >> sitting under a great portrait of George. Washington in his younger days. >> Come on, guys. >> You ready for us? >> Come on inside. >> From the New York Times, I'm Michael. Barbaro. This is the Daily. >> How are you? >> Good. Good to see you, Mr. President. Did you see that? Just came out.

>> Number one on Tik Tok. Trump. >> All right. >> I'm a little older than the average age. on Tik Tok. >> On Wednesday [music] night, in the. middle of a defining moment for. President Trump's second term. >> Well, thank you, Mr. President, for. seeing us. You know, everybody, >> I do. I do. You. >> Katie Rogers. >> Hi, Katie. >> And of course, Tyler. >> Nice to see you. >> Four White House reporters from the. Times sat down [music] with him for an. extended interview in the Oval Office. Did you see my various truths today?

They were sort of. >> they were sort of sparkling sparkling. >> today. One [music] of them, David. Sanger, walks us through their. conversation. It's Friday, January 9th. So, David, four New York Times reporters.

walk into the Oval Office. What could. possibly go wrong? >> Sounds like a the setup to a punch line. Tell us about this experience. >> Well, the president's second term is. about to hit its one-year mark. And I. think it's a considerable understatement. for anybody who's been listening to the. Daily or reading the Times to say that. this is truly one of the most pivotal. moments in modern American history. >> Mhm. >> Trump has just executed his most.

audacious overseas intervention. I've been talking to him for a couple of. weeks about sitting down for a full on. thereord New York Times interview. As. you know, the relationship between. President Trump and the New York Times. has been occasionally slightly fraught. >> Yeah. And latigious. >> And latigious. >> He sued us over the past few months. >> only for $15 billion. But in the end, he. very happily agreed to it. And we were.

told that the moment would be 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday night. >> Mhm. >> And we actually thought that was a good. piece of timing cuz we figured we would. probably be his last appointment of the. day. Right. >> And anybody who has dealt with Donald. Trump, and I've dealt with him for a few. years, knows that if you're the last. appointment of the day, you're likely to. be sticking around for a while. >> Mhm. >> We didn't leave the White House till. after 9:00 p.m. >> Right. You got a meaningful chunk of his.

time. >> We did. Interrupted some by a few side. moments, including the president wanting. to show us some of his architectural. plans and visit what he's done up in the. residence and so forth. But a good oh. just shy of two hours of it was an. actual deep probing conversation about. this past year, foreign and domestic. issues. And our goal, Michael, was to. try to do something deeper and hopefully.

more revealing. than what the president does every day. when he stands up briefly in front of. reporters on Air Force One or does a. gaggle, as they call it, around the. Resolute Desk. And readers and listeners. are going to have to determine if you. succeeded. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, to that point, walk us. through the interview. Sit down, please. >> So, we settled in, sat down, arrayed.

around the Resolute desk. It was me and. Tyler Pager, Zolan Cano Young's, and. Katie Rogers. >> Mhm. >> Marco, why don't you join us for a. couple of minutes? Is that okay? >> Already inside the Oval Office was. Secretary of State Marco Rubio. We were. about to learn why. And right away, Michael, we had to sort through a few. logistics. So we have an understand this. is only used for your reporting. >> So this is what we wanted to ask you. about. I think in two different. interviews in the first term we used the.

audio to go on the daily and the first. thing we had to go do was negotiate that. we could actually use this recording for. the daily. >> Right. Thank you. Because without that. negotiation we don't have this episode. >> Anything for the daily. Michael, >> let's leave it for a little while. Fine. For a little while. We'll see how it. goes. And we were just a few minutes. into the conversation. >> Is he on the phone? So, can you turn. that off for a second? >> When an aid came in and handed the.

president a note. >> He's about to have a a call with. President Petro. And this call is off. the record. >> Okay. Saying the president of Colombia. was on the phone, the country, not the. university. >> That's right. >> Can you turn them off? You give me a. word. >> Yeah. Off. And what did that mean to you. knowing that the president of Colombia. was calling him in this moment? >> The first thing that came to mind was, "Oh, we have to get up and walk out.". But just as I was getting up to go do. that, the president waved at me just.

like, "No, David, please stay." Right? And the second thing that I thought was. if the president of Colombia is calling, it's because he's worried about the fact. that President Trump said just the other. day he better watch his ass because he. could be next. >> After Nicholas Maduro's ouster, he could. be next to be ousted. >> That's right. And at just that moment, JD Vance came in and settled in next to.

Marco Rubio to listen to the. conversation. >> Got it. Now, the conversation itself was. off the record, but it turned out that. some of our colleagues down in Colombia. had just sat down with President Pro. So, we had New York Times reporters at. both ends of this conversation. They had. left before the call happened, but Petro. was very clear with them. He said, "This. is a scary moment for Colombia. This is.

Donald Trump. We could well get the. Venezuela treatment.". >> So, presumably, he's calling to beseech. President Trump to treat him kindly. >> That's exactly right. >> Got it. >> So, the call ends. >> Okay, let's go. >> We turn our recorders back on. >> I hope that was interesting. Was that. interesting to you? >> Very interesting. And that began a. really wide-ranging conversation. And in. the first part, not surprisingly, we. spent a lot of time on foreign policy. >> Great. So, let me tell you where we want.

to start. Um, your decision to capture. Maduro and declare that the US was in. charge for the foreseeable future, I. think, raised a question of whether you. believe, as your aid, Steven Miller, put. it so clearly the other night, that. international nicities are gone. That. countries operate by strength. He I. think he said, "Govern by strength, government by force, governed by power.". And I think that left a lot of people. wondering whether you believe you have. the right as the world's largest.

superpower to go in and extinguish any. threat or seize any resource you think. is in the US interest particularly in. the Western Hemisphere. If there's a. threat, you use the word threat, you. certainly would have the right, any. country would have the right to do that. Uh without the threat, much less so. And. frankly, I do believe in the nicities. I. get along with a lot of people. I get. along with. >> for most presidents, military power is. the very last resort after everything.

else, every form of diplomacy. has failed you. So, I wanted to get the president. focused on the question of what criteria. he uses to exercise the most extreme and. deadly form of American power, which is. the military. but also try to figure out how much of a. motivation in Venezuela was the fact.

that it's sitting on the world's largest. reserves of oil. You've gone in in part. to get a resource which you just. declared today. >> Well, I got in I I got in for numerous. reasons. Number one, the drugs are. pouring into the country. You know that. Number two, the people are pouring into. the country were. except now we have a. 100% strong border. >> That all this talk about a threat from. drugs, from criminals and all that might. be secondary to his true motivation. here.

>> No, the oil happened to be there. >> Don't forget the oil will take a while, but we have it set. Although we did get, you know, many barrels of oil today as. you probably know. >> Uh and uh that's fine, but we didn't do. that. We didn't even know about the all. of the oil that was being stored there. >> So supposing you're Xi Jinping and. you've watched the events of the past. >> few days. >> And I wanted him to talk a little bit. about the long-term implications of.

this, the precedent it sets. You may. also be thinking that if you're Xi that. you could use the same logic to. decapitate and control Taiwan or why. couldn't Putin use that argument, same. argument, it's a threat to grab the rest. of Ukraine or go beyond into other. former Soviet states. In other words, have you created a precedent that you. may come to regret later on? >> No, because this is this was a real. threat. You didn't have people pouring. into China. You didn't have drugs.

pouring into China. You didn't have all. of the. >> that what happens if you're Xi Jinping. and you're watching this thinking, boy, this is useful when I'm justifying going. after Taiwan. >> The president engaged on this, but I'm. not sure he'd given it a huge amount of. thought before we started discussing it. >> And uh that's up to him what he's going. to be doing, but you know, I've. expressed to him that I would be very. unhappy if he did that. And at some point, Tyler Pager jumped.

back in to bring the topic back to the. central question of Venezuela. >> How long do you think you'll be running. Venezuela? >> Only time will tell. >> Like 3 months, 6 months, a year longer. >> I would say much longer than that. >> Much longer. And we have to rebuild. >> You have to rebuild the country. And we. will rebuild it in a very profitable. way. >> We're going to be uh using oil and we're. going to be taking oil. We're getting. oil prices down and we're going to be. giving u money to Venezuela which they.

desperately need. We're going to be. helping. >> One of the things that we all really. wanted to know was what would it take. for the president to actually send. American forces back on the ground in. Venezuela? >> On the importance of the military, what. would trigger a decision to send ground. troops into Venezuela? Uh, I wouldn't want to tell you that. because, you know, I can't I can't give. up information like that to a reporter.

as good as you may be. I just can't talk. about that. There's a possibility I. would do that. Absolutely. you know, a. second. >> because the US has really never tried an. experiment like the one that we're. seeing play out now, which is a kind of. virtual or remote control occupation, >> right? >> Running a foreign country kind of by. phone. >> or by having an armada floating just. offshore. >> Would you do it if you couldn't get at. the oil? Would you do it if they didn't. kick out the Chinese and Russian? >> I can't tell you that. Uh I really.

wouldn't want to tell you that, but. they're treating us with great respect. As you know, we're getting along very. well with the administration that is. there right now. Uh they're giving us. everything that we feel is necessary. >> But President Trump insisted to us that. right now he's getting from the. Venezuelan government, which is. essentially all filled with Maduro's. appointees. Everything that he wants, and most of. what he wants is access to the oil.

Given what has happened in Venezuela, the threats against Colombia, the. discussions about taking Greenland, buying Greenland, however you're framing. this right now, is there anything that. you think can constrain your power on. the world stage if you believe that. something is against national security? Do you see any checks on your power on. the world stage? Is there anything that. could stop you if you wanted to? >> Yeah, there's one thing. My own. morality,

my own mind. That's the only thing that. can stop international law. And that's. very good. >> I don't need international law. I'm not. looking to hurt people. I'm not looking. to kill people. I've ended, remember. this, I've ended eight wars. Nobody else. has ever done that. I've ended eight. wars and didn't get the Nobel Peace. Prize. Pretty amazing. Obama got it. He. was there for a few weeks and he got it. He didn't even know why he got it. They. they asked him why did he get it. He was. unable to answer the question. I ended. eight wars. I if you look at those wars,

these were tough wars to end too. And. let me tell you, India and Pakistan were. going at it as you know, they were going. at it. But but that was one of eight, but we ended eight strong wars, some. going on for more than 30 years. >> But do you feel your administration. needs to abide by international law on. the global stage? >> Yeah, I I do. I you know, I do. But it. it depends what your definition of. international law is. But the answer is. I do. But we have to keep the United. States safe. We have to keep parts of.

the world safe that we feel responsible. for. NATO is not feared by Russia or. China at all. Not even a little bit. We're tremendously. David, I found this. exchange that the president had with. Katie Rogers really fascinating because. he is saying that at a moment when he is. exercising power arguably as never. before. that international law is not much of a. constraint on him. The only constraint.

really is his personal judgment. And he. goes on to say that he thinks that. situation, him exercising American. [snorts] power kind of at his whim is. what instills in our foes and even in. our allies like NATO the respect and. fear required to operate in this world. I think this is one of the most. fascinating windows into the way. President Trump thinks because as you.

just heard there, he views the only. check on his power to be his own moral. compass. >> Mhm. >> And that outside institutions, whether. they're the UN or an international. treaty, >> only means what he interprets it to. mean. Mhm. >> And that tells you that he wants to. operate as a leader with fundamentally. no check at all because he thinks he's a.

good person and therefore the world can. rely on. >> his good judgments, >> his good judgment and his good heart. >> And so we thought we'd sort of stress. test that by turning to Greenland. >> Can I circle back to what you had said. about NATO? If you had to choose between. obtaining Greenland and preserving NATO, what's your higher priority there? >> Well, I don't want to say that to you, but it may be a choice. You have to. understand Russia is not at all.

concerned with NATO other than us. China. is not at all concerned with NATO other. than us because sadly, you know, Europe. is becoming a much different place. And. they really do have to shape up. I want. them to shape up. I think we'll always. get along with Europe. But. >> what he's essentially saying is the US. holds all the cards, has all the power, and NATO's not going to have a choice. because there is no NATO without the. United States. And therefore, if the.

price of keeping the alliance together. >> is handing the US the right to control. Greenland, they're going to do it. because they don't have another choice. Are you prepared to send troops to. Greenland if they do not give over the. territory? >> Well, we already have troops in. >> more troops to militarily take over. >> I mean, we take over. We have, you know, good section of troops and I've had. troops there and and I've, you know,

upped it. >> I was there this summer and you could. send as many troops as you want. And you. haven't done it. How come? >> Because I want to do it properly. >> And properly means own it. really it is. to me it's ownership. Ownership is very. important. You know. >> why is ownership important here? >> Because that's what I feel is. psychologically needed for success. I. think that ownership gives you a thing. that you can't do whether you're talking. about a lease or a treaty. Uh ownership. gives you things and elements that you.

can't get from just signing a document. that you can have a important to you or. to. >> psychologically important for me. Now, maybe another president would feel. differently, but so far I've been right. about everything. >> And you would use military force to get. that. >> I didn't say that. You said that. >> I'm asking you, would you? >> Yeah. I wouldn't comment on that. It's I. don't think it'll be necessary. >> And can you just explain what he means. by that? The psychological. value of owning Greenland, not just.

controlling it, not just having a lot of. influence over it, but owning it. The. way I read it was, "Hey, I spent my life. as a real estate developer and I know. that you have way more control if you. own than if you lease.". >> But that also means I fundamentally. don't believe in relying on alliances. and the fact that Denmark, a member of. NATO, >> a member of NATO, which basically.

controls and protects Greenland, it's. not enough for him to have an ally. that he's got to do it himself. Now, you. got to ask yourself, where does that. logic end, >> right? Does it end with China taking. over Taiwan? Does it end with Russia. taking over Ukraine? >> Does it end with the United States. demanding that doesn't stop at. Greenland? Maybe we need Iceland as. well. So David, based on how the. president talked about the use of. American power overseas and especially. the use of American military power.

overseas, what were you left thinking by the end. of this part of the interview? I was. left thinking that the president feels. himself unconstrained by law, convention, or the systems that the. United States itself built at the end of. World War II after the world had gone. through two horrific. >> NATO and the entire system of. international law. >> That's right. But at the same time that. he's not a wararmonger, right? He.

actually does want that peace prize. He. does want to be known as a president of. peace. And yet when he's given the. choice between long, slow, boring. diplomacy and quick action by special. operations breaking down doors, he'll go for the special operators. >> What you're describing is a set of. extraordinary contradictions even for. Donald Trump. >> Absolutely. And that is what is both.

maddening and fascinating. about covering the Trump presidency. because you're not going to fit this man. into some simple set of theories. He is. a bundle of contradictions. [music]. Well, David, after the break, we are. going to turn to a similar bundle of. contradictions when it comes to domestic. affairs. We'll be right back.

[music]. [music]. on behalf of both of them. Have they got. us? >> I want to make sure we have time for. domestic policy too. Um uh ICE did shoot.

and kill an American citizen today. according to early reports. >> David, tell us about the conversation. that the four of you had with the. president about domestic issues. Well, Zolan kicked it off with questions about. this horrifying scene we had all just. seen play out in Minneapolis just hours. before. >> Uh we have also seen protesters met with. violent tactics and pepper spray. In. some cases, American citizens have also. been wrongfully detained. Do any of.

these incidents or tactics make you. think ICE has gone too far? >> Well, I think that ISIS has been treated. very badly. Don't forget, I got rid of. thousands and thousands of killers, murderers. They've gotten rid of. thousands of people that were led into. our country during the Biden. administration so stupidly. Uh they're. very they're very brave, very citizen. was shot today. >> That's right. >> Does this make you uncomfortable? >> Well, I Everything makes me. uncomfortable. I want to see nobody get. shot. I want to see nobody screaming and. trying to run over policemen either or,

you know, law enforceed by local. officials in the. >> Well, if you take a look at the tape, I. saw the same tape that you must have. seen. I just saw it. There were several. >> there were several angles on that. >> Well, I know. But if you take a look at. that, that was a vicious situation that. took place. And if you go before that, and in my opinion, the the screamer, that woman that was screaming shame, shame, shame, that's not normal. That. was a practiced, rehearsed, professional. agitator. >> Even so, are those appropriate policing. tactics for somebody to fire into a.

vehicle like that in your mind? Is that. >> Well, they ran him over. I mean, they. ran. >> and Trump just sort of reflexively. defended the officers and claimed that. the driver had run over one of them. >> and we had all seen this video and. immediately sort of stepped in to. challenge the account. >> tried to run. >> Video didn't look like he was he was run. over. >> Well, I'd play the tape for you right. now. Do you want to just whip it out? Looked to me to be very bad. I I just.

put out the tape. And so Trump said, >> "Well, let's just watch it together.". >> And to our surprise, that's exactly what. happened. >> Have any of these have any of these. tactics made you uncomfortable? You. know, you've had citizens that have also. been wrongfully detained here? >> Yeah, we've seen that one. >> We've seen that video. >> Yeah. >> One of his aids brought over a laptop, slowed down a a version of the tape. >> Does not look like the ICE officer has. been run over there. And then maybe from.

a different angle we would see. >> The way I look at it. >> Oh, sure. If you look at that, >> it's terrible scene. >> Yeah, we all agree on. >> You say it's horrible to watch. You said. that on truth. So, do you think that. goes I hate to see it. It was sort of a. strange form of real time factchecking. of the president with it clear that the. president wasn't entirely comfortable. with what he was seeing on that laptop.

>> Mhm. >> Or what these ICE agents were doing. >> So just take a step back here because. this. >> and then from there the president sort. of turn to a a different topic about. what the real aim of the president's. immigration restrictions are and who. they're supposed to target. challenge, but I do. >> Your administration has also suggested. that some people who are naturalized. citizens could see their citizenship. strict. Uh, which groups do you think. should lose citizenship?

>> Well, I think Somalia is a disaster to. be honest with you. I look at what's. happening in Minnesota and you look at. this country, it's one of the worst in. the world. It's acknowledged to be truly. one of the most corrupt, one of the most. vicious, violent countries in the world. Uh, even the ships, they go after the. ships. They don't do that anymore. because if they go after the ships, you. know what? They get hit by the same. missile that we hit the drug dealers. >> Question is, would you strip them of. their nationality? >> If they deserve to be stripped, I would.

Yeah. >> So, what would the criteria you would. >> Well, we're looking at criteria right. now. But if they deserve to be stripped, David, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Yeah. >> You don't think that your comments about. those of Somali descent have painted a. broad brush on your own citizens? >> I don't care. I want great people in. this country. I want people that love. the country. And I think that many of. the people that came in from Somalia. uh they hate our country. They came and. they and not only do they hate our. country, they've ripped off our country.

They've ripped it off. They've stolen. billions of dollars. It's shocking from. where they came, they had nothing. And. they come here and they steal. And it's. an embarrassment to the intelligence of. the people of Minnesota and to the. people of our country. >> in your view. >> that that they would be allowed to do. it. I I I've heard many people that say. this is generalizing in population and. find these comments. >> You call it whatever you want. >> I want to ask if part of your. immigration agenda is also aimed at. changing the racial makeup of this.

country. >> No, not at all. >> Is part of this this agenda aimed at. >> I just want people that love our. country. It's very simple. I want people. that love our country. I want people. that respect our country, respect the. laws of our country. And uh I want. people that can embrace our country. >> because you've you've support all. refugees. >> that can make America great again. >> You have a tra on the majority African. >> And Zolan raises an interesting point. The the only immigrants who can come in. right now are white South Africans, right? >> Refugees. >> the way of refugees.

>> Well, I haven't seen that. I mean, I. certainly haven't seen that. But over. the years, it's been very much the. opposite of that. Very, very much the. opposite of that. Uh people are coming. into our country. Nobody's doing it. based on race. >> Trump is positing to you all that his. immigration restrictions are not about. race. They're not intentionally about. race when the reality is that they are. allowing for very few people of color to.

enter the country. The people who are. banned. >> from entering the US right now and there. are bans on a lot of countries. They are. almost uniformly from countries where. the populations are black and brown. The. very few people he is letting in are. white. The pattern becomes difficult to. ignore. It sure does. And look, he says. he just wants people who love this. country to be allowed in. But what we're.

learning is he basically only wants to. favor white South Africans as I raised. with him or the immigrants he wants the. most are those who bring special skills. that can help our economy and uh that's. a a very select group. >> Do you think some industries still need. immigrant labor? >> Yes. >> Which ones? >> They need inexpensive Well, they're. different things. We need people to come.

in. Just so you understand something, [snorts] I'm all for people coming into. our country through the border legally. If they come in legally, I want them. more than they want me and more than. they want this country. And if you look. at my first term and if you look at this. term, I want we need people. We're. building factories all over the country. who are building. You said, >> but I want them to come in to be. protected respectfully. I want them to. come in legally. But you said. agriculture and hotels uh that you.

wanted ICE to use common sense against. them, right? I want them to use. >> Have you directed ICE to ease. deportations against those industries? Yes. Are there other industries that. you've directed ICE? >> Because I watch farmers and I deal with. farmers and I want 90% of the farmers, more than that, and they're great. people. And they have great people. working for them who have been working. for them for 25 years. They're almost. like a member of the family. >> Are there other in those people thrown. out of the country? Are there other. industries or companies that you've.

directed ICE to ease deportations on? >> No, the South Korean case. >> some some service industries uh some. I'll give you an example in Georgia with. South Korea. >> They make batteries. Batteries are very. complex and they're very dangerous to. make and they make them and they brought. in three or 4 hundred people who. specialize in. >> them all. >> and they throw them out. And I was very. angry about it. You know why? because. they have to open a factory and you. can't take a person off the street who's. never seen a battery before and think.

that they're going to make highly. complex batteries. >> He actually invoked the ICE raid on that. Kyai plant in Georgia where they. deported a whole bunch of South Korean. workers who were there setting up a a. car battery factory. >> You have to allow them to bring some of. their experts with them or they're never. going to be able to open their plant. It. sounds like you were angry at at ICE for. this raid on the Hyundai facility. >> I was not happy about it. Nope. I was.

not happy about it. Uh they're making. batteries. Batteries are very dangerous. and actually very complex and they. brought people that make batteries and. those people would have trained our. people how to make batteries and at some. point they would have gone back because. they want to go back to their country. They might not. So, in Trump's telling. here, and I was struck by this, that a. fair number of American workers just may. not be qualified to do the kind of. highly technical manufacturing that he's.

prioritizing right now, something like, you know, car batteries. And what's. interesting about that, of course, is, you know, President Trump runs on a. message of remembering forgotten. America, the bluecollar workingass. Americans, you know, many of whom used. to be in the manufacturing sector who. need jobs now in the new economy. And. he's kind of saying, let's be honest, a. lot of those people, they can't do this. work. >> Well, I think what he's saying is they. certainly can't do it at the beginning.

You can't just. >> immigrants can. >> That's right. That you can't just drop a. car battery factory and expect it to be. up and running, right, without the help. of the technical workers that they need. to get it up and running and the. American workers aren't going to catch. on until that happens. >> To be honest, I'd love to be able to. create an immigration policy that works. for everyone. >> You like a comprehensive immigration. reform? >> I would love to do it if it was. possible. >> Is Congress willing to go do that? George Bush tried. >> If the Democrats would do it, I'd do it.

I'd love to have a comprehensive uh. immigration policy, something that. really worked. It's about time for the. country to have. >> What would that look like? >> Excuse me. >> What would a comprehensive. >> I don't want to go into that because. it's a very. uh it's a very ticklish subject, but I. believe that uh there is a plan that can. work for everybody. >> David, I wonder if you were as surprised. as I was in listening to this interview. by the president's sudden enthusiasm.

for something like comprehensive. immigration reform. I'm sure you. remember this as well as I do. Comprehensive immigration reform is a. word that if a Republican invokes, they. are in big, big trouble because it. almost always implies that you're going. to create a legal path for those here. illegally. That's the comprehensive part. of immigration reform. In the past, President Trump has sought to kill any. form of comprehensive immigration.

reform. And suddenly he's saying, "I. want this.". >> You know, Michael, to hear President. Trump come back and discuss this, I was. sitting there thinking, "How is his own. base going to go react to this?" Because. yes, the core of it is. you do find a pathway for at least some. to get to citizenship. And I'm not sure. the current Trump base is ready for. that. >> Can we move on to the economy? I would.

like to ask you about uh Republican. pollsters lately are warning that you. and the party is losing ground with. young voters, particularly young men who. are concerned with job prospects. >> Could I have the Tik Tok uh thing? >> But what would you say to those young. rigged polls? Look, the polls are rigged. just like the writers. But there's these. are Republican pollsters who are warning. your party that you are. >> not doing enough focus on American jobs. >> I can't tell you. I I think I'm very. popular. This just came out from Tik.

Tok. >> It came out just recently. that Donald Trump was number one on Tik. Tok and the most popular person. So you. can have these. I don't. >> David on the economy. The president. pretty forcefully waves off the idea, which we keep finding in poll after poll. and in election results from the last. off-year election, that voters, including many Republican voters, are.

persistently feeling anxious about the. economy and they don't think he is. focused enough on it. You know, we kept. trying to steer him back to this to try. to get him to think about the economic. anxieties of ordinary Americans. >> Mr. President, so many voters voted for. you because of the economy. And I think. Katie just wanted to get out. >> The economy is probably the best. It's. Look, the economy right now, I have. trillions and trillions of dollars. coming into this economy, more than any.

nation has ever had by far. Our economy. is. unbelievable. And I'm bringing down the. prices. Remember this. I didn't cause. the high prices. Biden did. >> The Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait one. second. I inherited a mess. Listen. I. inherited a mess. >> I inherited a highly inflated, horribly. run country. The borders were bad. The. military was bad. The Afghanistan was. the worst worst day in the history of.

our country. Maybe in the I think it was. the lowest point. Do you know what that. was? The lowest point. And we may right. now be at the highest point. >> There are good signs and the economy is. growing. Wages are keeping up with. inflation. But there are other. indicators that people are are hurting. High earners. 10% of high earners make. half of the economy grow. >> I'm bringing they're hurting because of. Biden. I'm bringing. >> No, high earners are not hurting. It's. the low earners. It's the middle. earners. It's the people that you. promise to help. What do you say to If. you look at my achievements, the. greatest uh percentage-wise,

the greatest beneficiaries of my economy. in my first term were lowincome workers. And it's turning out to be right now. blue collar workers are doing better. than anybody else percentage- wise as. they measure that. Uh I inherited a. mess. It was high prices. It was high. inflation. It was high crime. You know, did you see where murders are the lowest. they've ever been? Did you see where. crime is at the lowest point it's ever. been? Do you know why? Because they.

closed the border and we don't have. criminals pouring into our country. >> Mr. President, do you. a few more on the economy? Do you think. um are you basically telling Americans. that they have to wait a little bit. longer, particularly low and middle. income Americans? >> No, it doesn't. I can't fix what they. destroyed in four years immediately. But. if you look at it, I have more. investment income coming in than any. president than any country has ever had. What I've done, >> I mean, it felt in these exchanges that.

this concept of the president as. insulated from the American economic. challenges of this moment was very. vividly on display. And you don't sense. that he is empathetic to those who are. worried about the economy. In fact, he. kind of disputes the premise that there. is anything wrong with the economy. >> That's right. Or that new technology. like artificial intelligence.

would bring about more economic anxiety. >> Mr. President, just on AI, there are. many Americans who are concerned that AI. is going to. >> uh AI is going to take their jobs and. they will not will be out of work. I. think just the opposite. I think AI is. going to be a tremendous job producer. I. think that we have so many jobs. My. biggest problem isn't taking the jobs, it's that we don't have enough people to. fill the jobs. and that's where robots come in. And so. I I think you've got to come to your own. conclusion about whether or not there's.

anything in this interview that would. make an ordinary American feel better. about supermarket prices or tightening. job market or the anxieties that come. from the arrival of a new and somewhat. terrifying new technology that's going. to have effects that none of us can. predict. So David, how does this. interview ultimately come to an end? >> Well, the president had stuff he wanted.

us to see. >> These are two personnel actions that. Scavino's team asked the president to. >> Oh, I'll sign it in two seconds. >> Sorry, sir. >> This is a much more important thing to. do. So, this is the ballroom right here. It's beautiful. People love it. >> And after nearly two hours of. conversation, he got up, started. pointing out paintings he had dug out of. the vault of the White House and hung. >> Oh, get the get me the model real fast. talked about his plans for the White. House complex.

All a reminder that while he is taking. out the leader of Venezuela and. threatening to re-engage with the. Iranians. and denying that there's any reason for. people to be anxious about the economy. >> As an example, have you seen the white. marble floor there? >> No. >> Well, I'm going back up. So, if you. want, you could follow me. Yeah, that'. be okay. >> Well, let me just finish this. So, >> he's also busy thinking about rebuilding. the White House.

>> Sir, do you want to show them the. renovation? >> Yeah, let's go. Come on. That we had. enough. Nice setup, right, Katie? Good. Two hours, Katie. I could go nine hours. >> We're going to continue. >> Sir, can I get two signatures? >> You know, I did a uh a treadmill with. the military. >> Well, David, thank you very much for. walking us through this fascinating. conversation with the president. When we. come back, we're going to ask that all. four of you who conducted this interview. sit down together and briefly reflect on. the conversation and what you all took.

from it. So, we'll be right back. [music]. So, Tyler, Katie, Zolan, David just. walked us through the highlights of the. interview that the four of you did with. him because this went on for so long. There's inevitably a lot of material.

that we couldn't cover. So, I want to. begin by just asking each of you, what's. one thing he said that we probably. didn't cover with David that's really. going to stick with you when you reflect. back on this interview, Katie? I think. it's the degree to which the president. throughout this interview really wanted. credit and he wanted gestures of. goodwill from people he wanted respect. from be it Democrats, Republicans,

members of the news media, the American. public. And one of the ways I felt that. that was manifesting during this whole. encounter was he's building a ballroom. where the East Wing used to be big. enough to host an inauguration inside. for future presidents. >> And he kept going back to this idea that. he's a builder. He mentioned that maybe. he was a better builder than he ever has. been at politics. And at one point he. summons a military aid to bring in an.

architectural rendering with miniature. models of the ballroom and is sort of. almost telling us and himself that. building being built over there. They'll. be thanking me as if this is the project. that will do it. That will give him this. credit that he has been seeking in this. term, his last term, and throughout his. time in public life. Zolan, what about you? >> Katie made the good point of how the. president is so motivated by whether or.

not he's getting credit. And it's not. just about whether he's getting credit. now, but it seems he's also motivated by. whether or not he got credit in the. first term. And he did not seem bothered. at all when we asked him about his. relatives and the business deals and the. money that they've made across the world. throughout his second term. When we. pressed him on this, he was saying, well, in his view, his family showed. restraint in the first term and he. didn't get credit.

>> Showed restraint in terms of what he was. willing to do in the name of making his. family money. >> That's right. And thus now in this term, he said that he was pretty much. unbothered about the business deals that. his family has been able to pursue. All. this, I think, speaks to a president. who's so much more emboldened in this. second term. And I think we saw up close. and personal just how emboldened he is. >> Tyler, >> one thing that I think stood out to me, Michael, is a conversation we had about.

anti-semitism because it's become such a. flash point within the Republican party. as we see this intraparty warfare over. whether or not there is space in the. Republican party and the broader Make. America Great Again movement for people. who espouse anti-semitic views, >> influencers, >> right? And JD Vance, his vice president, said basically that as long as you love. America, you're welcome. And he didn't. want to institute purity, >> even if you're anti-semitic. >> Right? And I asked President Trump.

whether or not there was room in his. movement for people with anti-semitic. views. And he said, "No, I don't think. we need them. I don't think we like. them." And that puts him at odds with. leading Republican figures, including. his vice president, who seemed more open. to including people who spread hateful. views within the party. >> It was a moment where he really came out. quite strongly against people who spread. anti-semitism when this debate is. coursing through his movement and among. his supporters, >> right? He's drawing a pretty bright red.

line there. So, one last question for. each of you. What is your ultimate. takeaway from this conversation? For me, there were moments in this. interview where it almost seemed like. the president was a bystander to his own. policies, to his own agenda. There were. times where he would speak, for example, about an interest in comprehensive. immigration reform and a potential. pathway to citizenship. >> Well, he has also directed his aids to. go pursue mass deportations. And you.

know, he talked about, well, ICE needs. to be careful around certain industries. >> You run ICE. >> Yeah, you run ICE. And also Steven. Miller works for you. Steven Miller has. been clear about pursuing mass. deportations as well. So it was that. distance he almost seemed to sort of try. to create between himself and in some of. the actions that his administration is. taking. >> Yeah, that is fascinating. Katie, what. about you? My major takeaway from this is that. there are many faces to President Trump. and even throughout that interview. It.

was a real exercise in wrangling those. different personas because he was. combative. He was upbeat at times. He. was very almost docel when we were. asking him probing questions about his. health. And so instead of being the. President Trump who has called reporters. sedicious for asking questions about his. health, >> he allowed Tyler to ask him if he'd ever.

taken a GLP1 medication before. He said. no. >> Quick interjection. Oh yeah. What did he. say? >> He said he had not, but he probably. should. >> David asked him if he was on any blood. thinners besides aspirin. The answer was. no. >> Yeah. Very personal questions. I asked. him if he had ever had a heart attack. These are questions. >> no. >> The answer was no. But the point is this. was a different version of him and you. never know which version of him you are. going to get and he knows that. He knows. that if a foreign leader calls him that.

person does not know who is on the other. end of the line. >> Which persona? >> Yes. And that means that this president. can dangle consequences can show up as. magnanimous. he can show up as. threatening. I think that is my main. takeaway going forward. >> Fascinating. David, you know, all. presidents in their second term turn. more to foreign policy, not only because. they've got greater leverage and greater.

freedom, but because they want to. establish a legacy. And I think the. first thing I took away from it is this. is somebody who thinks about building a. foreign policy legacy and building. buildings. The second thing that really. jumped out at me was that. he was spending this time with the New. York Times because he really wants an. approval for this new vision of a.

muscular America. And I think he was making what he. thought was a significant investment in. trying to explain a new approach to. managing the globe. Tyler, >> what was remarkable to me as we were in. there for quite some time was just. watching how the Oval Office operated. and the bubble around the president to. support all of his needs. Whether that's. him pressing the red button on his desk.

to get a Diet Coke or the aid that runs. out multiple times of the Oval Office to. pick up different pieces of paper that. he has requested she print out as. evidence for whatever point he's making. or just the people walking in and out of. the Oval Office with notes, whether. that's a foreign leader on the call or. an aid is waiting outside to him. combining meetings. There were documents. he had to sign and he just had that. person come in with the paperwork as we. were sitting there for the interview.

His phone, his personal cell phone was. ringing multiple times. He took one call. from the Fox News anchor Brett Bear. But. it was really just quite amazing to see. how. chaotic, frankly, [music] the Oval. Office can be. And we've reported on how. this unfolds, but I think sitting in the. Oval Office for an extended period of. time and watching it up close really. gives you the sense of how Trump makes. decisions, how he thinks, and how his.

world [music] operates. [music]. >> Well, to all four of you, thank you very. much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Michael. Here's. [music]. [music]. what else you need [music] to know. today. >> The A's are 52, the NAS are 47. The.

motion is agreed to. [music]. The joint resolution will be placed on. the calendar. On Thursday, a bipartisan. group of senators voted to advance a. resolution that would force President. Trump to seek congressional. authorization for continued military. operations in Venezuela. Five Republican senators joined all. Democrats in backing the resolution. One. of them, Republican Senator Rand Paul of. Kentucky, said that one factor behind.

his vote was Trump's suggestion made in. his interview with the Times that the. United States might remain involved in. Venezuela for years. And in Minnesota, local authorities are. accusing the federal government of. blocking them from investigating why an. ICE [music] agent killed a 37year-old. woman in her car. The accusation came as. federal immigration agents in Portland, Oregon, shot two people in their car.

[music] on Thursday, apparently under. similar circumstances. Federal officials accused the two people. in Oregon of weaponizing their car. against [music] the agents. Today's [music] episode was produced by. Asta Chhaturvveni, Stella Tan, and Mary. Wilson. It was edited by Rachel Quester. with help from [music] Paige Cowed.

Contains music by Rowan Misto and Dan. Powell and was engineered by Chris. [music] Wood. Special thanks to Aphim. Shapiro. >> [music]. [music]. >> That's it for the daily. I'm Michael. Boro. See you on Monday.