An Interview With the Man Behind Trump’s Current Immigration Crackdown

[music]. From the New York Times, I'm Natalie. Ketrof. This is the Daily. >> What is he being pulled over for? >> There's a child. >> He's having a seizure. They're trying to. rip the baby out of her hand. >> My boy was a baby in the back that. wasn't doing absolutely nothing. >> Mommy, you okay, mama? >> You okay? You're okay.

>> As the Trump administration ramps up its. crackdown on illegal immigration, [music] it's turned to one agency and. one man officials believe can help them. dramatically increase [music]. deportations. Border Patrol Chief Greg Bevino. >> Arrest as many people that touch you as. you want to. Those are the general. orders. He's the law enforcement figure. who's now at the center of the most. aggressive raids and tactics being. employed in American cities. >> Why are your officers asking you where.

I'm from? >> I thought you guys are doing targeted. arrest. >> Today, my colleague Had Ali Aziz speaks. to Bo [music]. and explains why his militaristic. approach may be here to stay. [music] It's Wednesday, November 12th. Hammed, we're now almost 10 months into. the Trump administration's crackdown on.

immigration. And over the course of that. period, you've come on the show at. several points. And you've told us that. despite all of the videos that we're. seeing of these ICE raids and these. arrests and these very aggressive. enforcement tactics, the administration. is actually frustrated internally with. the pace, the slow pace they see of. deportations. And you've been reporting. recently on the changes that they are. making to try to address that. So let's.

start there. Walk me through that. Yeah, the Trump administration when they. came in, they promised mass. deportations. And as part of that, there. was this massive push earlier this year. to arrest 3,000 people a day. That was. the goal. And ICE has gotten nowhere. near that goal. Across the country, typically ICE on a weekday is averaging. around 1,300 arrests. And because of the. inability to get these numbers, there.

have been constant changes at ICE. And. not just recently, but throughout the. year. They've replaced their director. They've replaced multiple senior. officials. And a couple weeks ago, they got rid of. almost half of the senior leaders across. the country. >> Just to drill down here for a second, what is it that the administration is. actually taking issue with? What are. these leaders doing wrong according to. the administration? >> I think one of the main issues here is.

that the way ICE has historically. conducted immigration enforcement is. really time inensive. What ICE does, they spend a long time surveilling a. single individual. They send out several. people to go arrest that person. Sometimes that person's not there. So. there's so many resources. There's so. much time just to get a small number of. people. And right now the administration. and DHS and ICE is running into really. kind of a inherent issue with the way.

ICE does its work. >> It sounds like you're saying they see. ICE as actually too methodical, which. honestly is sort of hard to square with. the images that we've seen of these. agents tackling people, slamming people. to the ground, breaking families up. But. then again, we did talk to you a couple. months ago about an ICE raid that you. and one of our producers went on and. that was this big dayong raid where they. only detained three people.

>> Yeah. I mean, there have been countless. videos. You see ICE smashing windows to. get people. We've seen officer involved. shootings involving ICE. There are these. really dramatic videos of ICE conducting. immigration sweeps in the country. But. for ICE, that's the type of drama that. they want to avoid. Typically, what they. want to do is they want to secure the. scene. They want to get in and out. And. they take a lot of pride in conducting.

their immigration enforcement in this. manner. >> But of course, to pull off a smooth. raid, it takes time and planning. And. the agents have to be meticulous in the. leadup. And as far as the administration. is concerned, time is something that ICE. just doesn't have. So they've looked to. another agency and that's Border Patrol. >> Border Patrol typically operates near. the southern border. They are in charge. of stopping people who cross into the.

country illegally and they're more. willing to be in your face to be more. militaristic in many ways. And they are. very aggressive in their approach. and. they've been really behind some of the. videos that have gone viral, including, you know, people being chased at Home. Depot, raids on apartment buildings, people being arrested at car washes.

These are border patrol, not ICE. And. now the administration wants them to do. more and to be really at the forefront. of immigration enforcement in the United. States. And the guy that's overseeing. all of this, the person who is the. commander of this operation is a guy. named Greg Beavino. >> Hey, Chief. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How you doing? >> I'm doing well. So, I recently spoke. with him to understand his career,

>> where he came from, and why he's been. empowered by the Trump administration. And when you hear his story, it's pretty. clear that his whole career has been. leading up to this point. >> And where does that story start for him? >> Well, really at a young age, he's. somebody who was drawn to the agency. through books, through film. >> I'm sure I'm not going to be telling you. anything you don't know. The game's a.

little different around here. In fact, he had a distant relative. He calls him. an uncle who was a producer in. Hollywood. >> Never knew him, but he produced a movie. called The Border with Jack Nicholson. >> The Border, it divided the land, it divided the man. >> And I remember, I believe I was. approximately 8, 9 years old, and my. parents took me to see that movie. because Uncle Neil produced it. It was.

kind of a big deal from back in rural. North Carolina to see something like. that. >> You're killing drivers. Don't tell me I. don't know what I'm talking about. because if I don't know what I'm talking. about, where's the driver you took in. there today? >> So, we went and watched it. >> See this line? This line right here. I. don't cross. This line right here. >> It got me interested in the Border. Patrol from an early age, and I. juxtaposed that against the many authors. from the 70s and 80s that were from the. Border Patrol. Um, they wrote a lot of. books. I think he was inspired by an.

agency in which people are overseeing. these vast swaths of land. They're by. themselves. >> The extreme amount of violence that. those border patrol agents or they were. called inspectors back then were up. against. And it struck me, wow, that was. a pretty tough organization to be out. there alone with no backup. And I began. to realize that that thing called the US. Border Patrol is probably something. pretty special. So I kept it in mind. through the years and when I had the. opportunity I put my application in and.

was accepted and the rest is history. >> And he joins the agency in 1996 and he. starts at the El Centro sector this area. near the southern border in California. >> You know when I started there in El. Centro there was just open desert. between the United States and Mexico. And I [clears throat] remember the. amount of what we would call a. drive-thru. That's when someone takes a. vehicle and drives across the border, whether it's with a load of illegal. aliens or a load of narcotics. That was.

quite rampant back in the day there 30. years ago. Now, >> and pretty quickly, he's almost put into. the scenario that he imagined as a young. man. You know, this area that's vast. swats of land. There's not a lot of. agents out there. It's often times. agents by themselves. And so he's out. there doing the work that he. romanticized as a young man, arresting. human smugglers, arresting migrants.

crossing the country illegally and. really being thrust into these intense. scenarios that just years before he was. reading in books. And from there he was. able to rise up in the agency, take on. leadership roles across the country, including in New Orleans, and ultimately. in 2020 toward the end of the first. Trump administration, he returns to El. Centro and he takes over as border.

patrol agent in charge. >> Well, being able to return where I. started, that was pretty special. So, there was one area of the border that I. thought I knew quite well. And once I. got down there, I couldn't even. recognize it. It was almost. unrecognizable. So, uh, I noticed there. was a lot more infrastructure. President. Trump had put the new wall in, the 30ft. wall. >> There's now a wall. There are roads, >> the roads, the technology, the. improvements that were made there under. President Trump's administration. So, that's something I noticed is a much.

more secure border. >> And perhaps most consequentially, the. policies are much different. The Trump. administration at this time in 2020 has. enacted a sweeping border policy that. allows agents to quickly turn back. people, deport them without any process. or access to asylum. >> We finally got what we were asking for. Uh it's like they finally listened to. the border patrol. And of course, this. was in the administration's reasoning as.

a result of protecting the American. public from the spread of CO. >> Right. This was Title 42, the measure. that allowed them to immediately deport. people who tried to cross the border. because of the public health emergency. >> Exactly. >> So, it sounds like Bo is excited by the. Trump administration's fullthroated. approach to enforcement. How does he. experience Biden coming to office? He was not a fan. >> It was like turning a light switch on.

and off. In this case, it was like. turning the light switch off. We went. back to the dark ages. >> So during the Biden administration, it's. important to note that the Biden. administration continued to use Title 42. during the early years. But one thing. that happened was. >> I remember the order was given there. from that leadership in DC. It was. called throughput and decompression. There were so many people crossing the. border that one of the strategies the. administration took was to quote unquote. decompress their border facilities. In.

other words, to release people into the. country with immigration court hearings. or with notices to go see ICE. And so. during that process, many people, hundreds of thousands of people were. allowed into the country after they had. just crossed illegally. Um, and it's. just a massive onrush of millions of. illegal aliens. You realize that, you. know, a policy like that, how damaging. that can be and how much work it could.

undo. It undid a lot of work, decades of. work, all in a 24-hour period basically, and that's all it took. >> And for Border Patrol, that was really. demoralizing and upsetting. And Greg. Bevino really kind of embodies that, >> right? We both actually covered this at. the time, Huh. I was covering this from. the Mexican side of the border as a. foreign correspondent. You were in the. US. Bino describes what he calls a.

totally open border. That is an. oversimplification, but it's true that we saw a more poorest. border under Biden and there was this. huge influx of people and rather than. turning all of them away, there was this. release into the country of many of. these people. >> Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I. think during the Biden years, there was. not an open border. There were certainly.

people who were crossing illegally and. being turned back. But. >> during that time, there were so many. people crossing that many people got. through. >> Yeah. >> And for other migrants, there was this. kind of idea, there was a message being. sent that the Biden administration. wasn't going to go to the lengths that. the Trump administration was willing to. go to, you know, >> to stop them from entering. >> Exactly. And as a result of that, you. started to see hundreds of thousands of. people crossing and willing to take the. risk of potentially being deported.

because they knew there was a good. chance that they wouldn't be and they. would be allowed into the United States. >> So here's Bovino. He's on the forefront. of this in many ways. He's right on the. border and he's saying the Biden. administration is asking his agency to. do the opposite of its mission. So. >> how does he respond to that? >> Yeah, for him he feels like he's not. going to go along with what's happening. in other parts of the border. He's going.

to try his own approach in his area. >> One of the things we did in El Centro. sector is we didn't do throughput and. decompression. >> We continued to give consequences to. those who would come across the border. And one of the interesting things is. when you do provide a consequence to an. illegal alien that comes across the. border, guess what? they don't want to. cross the border where you're providing. consequences. >> So despite what he sees as the Biden. administration stance of releasing. migrants into the United States, he says.

that in his sector, they kept on turning. back migrants at the border and. deporting them. >> And toward the end of that time, as he's. getting more and more frustrated with. the Biden administration's policies. alongside other Border Patrol agents who. felt the same, he decides to amp things. up even more. What does he do? >> In January of this year, in the final. weeks of the Biden presidency, he. conducts this sweeping operation in the.

central valley of California. >> Operation Return to Cinder. So, uh, return to Cinder was there in. Bakersfield. >> CBP stationed over 60 agents in and. around Kern County, claiming the. operation. This is an area that is. really vibrant with farm workers, many. people from Latino backgrounds. And so. he decides to send his border patrol. agents there, >> arresting 78 people whom they said were. illegally in the US from Peru. >> And pretty quickly there are these.

scenes that immigrant advocates like the. ACLU are reporting back. you know, farm. workers who were in vans, driving to. work, pulled over, stopped, and. arrested. >> The alleged crimes spanned from child. molestation to drugs and narcotic. seizures to DUI convictions, vandalism, burglary, and domestic violence. >> People at Home Depot stopped and. arrested. >> I went out yesterday to two stores in. Arvin and they were all empty.

>> People who have status of some sort, including US citizens, briefly detained. Hm. What we're hearing is that the CVP. pulling cars over um and profiling. folks. >> And we went to Bakersfield because of. what we had seen there coming from the. border where it was going to where these. smuggling networks were smuggling. And. it certainly opened our eyes to the need.

for interior enforcement, whether it's. attacking those smuggling networks going. to and through Bakersfield or those. illegal aliens that were already in. Bakersfield. Because. >> there are a couple of things that are. worth pausing to talk about here. >> First of all, the tactics that he's. using in this operation, pulling people. over on their drives to work, sweeping. up some American citizens in the. process. That's a real escalation from. what we were seeing at the time. But. maybe just as important is where this.

operation is happening. It's not at the. border. He's going into the interior of. the country. And I'm wondering if you. see this as a test where Bovino is. starting to expand the idea of where the. Border Patrol does its work. >> Yes, definitely. And I think for them. it's the idea here is border enforcement. doesn't stop at the border. People who. cross illegally into this country, we're. going to find them wherever they are. >> How unusual is that, Hammed? Because.

I've only interacted with Border Patrol. at the border. Is it something they've. done before to go into the interior and. do their work that way? >> Yeah, I mean, there have been arrests of. human smugglers, you know, one-off. events. Border Patrol has helped in the. past, but this type of operation in. which they are acting as essentially ICE. officers, that type of thing is very. unusual. That is something that I have.

not seen in my years of covering. immigration. >> And so what's the reaction like? Is. there fallout? What happens? >> Yeah, definitely. you know, community. members are upset, immigrant advocates. and lawyers are upset, and pretty. quickly the ACLU files a lawsuit, calling out the work of Greg Beino and. his agents, basically saying that they. were stopping people at random and. arresting them without the level of.

reasonable suspicion that is needed to. talk to them and to ultimately later to. arrest them. They believe that this was. sweeping operation targeting farm. workers based on their appearance. And a. federal court judge found that Border. Patrol and Greg Bevino had actually. violated the law and the way they. operated in California's Central Valley. But despite that, Bevino sees that. operation as a clear success.

and it was a kind of test case for what. it would look like if Border Patrol. agents actually went into the interior. of the United States and arrested. immigrants. >> Do you think at the time, despite the. questions over the legality of the. operation, Bo might have seen return to. sender as a model for the incoming Trump. administration for how they might want. to carry out enforcement? We don't know. exactly, but it's pretty clear that.

Bevino feels like this is the right way. to handle immigration enforcement. This. kind of no apologies, going into. communities, rounding up people, and. operating really aggressively. in public spaces is exactly the kind of. thing that really President Trump. promised in his campaign. [music]. And this summer, as they're really. trying to pick up [music] their mass.

deportation effort, they turn to Greg. Bevino and appoint him as tactical. commander. >> We already had the model down. We. already knew what we were [music] doing. And once we started, that good work. spoke for itself. >> and essentially unleash him on American. cities. >> We'll be right [music] back. You said the administration turned to.

Bovino as it was ramping up its. immigration enforcement. What did it. look like? >> Yeah, it starts in LA. If you recall, in. early June, ICE does this operation in. downtown Los Angeles. >> Is everybody ready? We're good to go. All TL's, are you ready? Move in. Move. in. Move in. You start to see people. being chased by border patrol agents in. the parking lots of Home Depot.

>> Car washes are another main area for. Border Patrol agents to arrest. immigrants. You see food stands on the. street. >> Yo, are you serious, bro? >> Suddenly, there are all these videos. coming out of Los Angeles. I'M ALONE. >> HE'S A US citizen. >> Get back on the wall. >> Showing a really almost chaotic.

immigration sweep. [cheering]. >> It unleashes mass protests. >> President Trump sends a National Guard. It's this really intense period where. the administration is saying we're not. going to back off. We're going to do. immigration enforcement anywhere. >> And by we, it really means Greg Bevino. who's overseeing the operation. >> What did the secretary tell you when she.

appointed you to this job? What did she. tell you about what she expected? >> We want you to make a difference. We. want you to attack those smuggling. routes and remove some of these really. bad people and bad things from Los. Angeles. Go. >> This is the Trump administration saying, "Do this every single day in one of the. biggest cities in America.". >> And what does Bo say about the huge. outcry that these tactics elicited? I. mean, we remember the backlash, the. protests, the anger, and the sense that.

a lot of people had that these raids. just didn't have a lot of order to them, that they're these sweeping operations. kind of targeting people seemingly at. random. you know, for him there is no. equivocation. >> Can you walk me through how you do it, how you pick your targets, how you go. about arresting people, because I think. the criticism is that it appears kind of. random. Can you talk through how you go. about picking up people at Home Depot?

>> Sure, Hammad. And I'm not going to go. too much into the tactics, but um even. before we go to a city, we gather. intelligence from many different means. Let's just say that. So, we already know. that there are bad people, bad things in. certain locations. We're going there. We. gather our intelligence. >> Bavino says that they are operating on. intelligence, that they are targeting. people based on their own surveillance. And as far as whether or not it's. random. >> Now, if there are other individuals.

there, they're going to get arrested. Also, if you're an illegal alien, you're. going to get arrested. He says that if. there are other people in the area that. we believe are undocumented, >> they will be arrested as well. >> This is what is often referred to as. collaterals. Right. >> Exactly. These are people who are around. targets of an immigration operation. And when you go to a Home Depot, when. you go to a public place where there are. a lot of people, the prospect of getting.

more collateral arrests goes way up. And. as part of that, you're going to have. the potential to get more numbers to to. arrest more people and go towards that. goal that the administration has strived. toward, which is 3,000 arrests a day. >> Right. And for the Trump administration, it's kind of easy to see the appeal of. Bo's approach, especially compared to. ICE's more directed version of. enforcement by going into big public.

areas instead of, you know, a single. person's home. It's more likely that. you're going to detain a bunch of. people. Maybe they're people that you. weren't originally looking for, but that. might help the administration meet its. goal of working to deport as many people. as possible. So, my question is, how. exactly does Border Patrol decide who to. stop when they're there? What's the. criteria they use? >> Well, the way he describes it to me is a. process called reasonable suspicion.

that reasonable suspicion is below. probable cause. Many of your viewers. probably understand what probable cause. is. Reasonable suspicion is an even. lower standard. So to get that. reasonable suspicion, we look at things. called articulable facts. >> And someone's ethnicity is is is. naturally an articulable fact as well. >> It could be, but that's a case by case. basis. Hammad, there's not a blanket um. articulable fact sheet that we're going. to look and say, well, you know what? um. that guy's got all these or that girl's.

got all these and go get them. >> Basically, immigration officers must. have a reasonable suspicion that. somebody's in the country illegally to. be able to stop them and question them. about their status. But it's the basis. for that reasonable suspicion that has. led to allegations that Border Patrol. agents in Los Angeles have racially. profiled people. That's something that Greg Bevino and. the US Border Patrol disputed. >> We're not looking at any one thing. We.

like the compendium facts. We like a lot. of different facts put together. The. outward facing characteristics of an. individual. Do they turn and run? Is. that an articulable fact? >> So, but like let's say you're at a um. Home Depot and you got the criminals. that you're you've targeted, you're. arresting, and then next to them are. people who are apparently appear to be. Latino. they speak Spanish. Would that. be enough to kind of start questioning. and figuring out whether or not to. arrest them?

>> You know, Ahmad, I I talked to and our. agents talk to um people that are, as. you say, Latino or speak Spanish every. day. And um a lot of those folks are. legal permanent residents. They have. legal documents. It happens all the. time. Not a big deal to us if someone. speaks Spanish. I I speak Spanish. Not. the greatest. his contention, his main. thing to push back on that is this idea. that. >> the idea of just speaking Spanish is not. enough for them to arrest somebody. Uh. he points to, hey, we've arrested people.

from Europe, including including from. Poland. So, we're not racially profiling. in the way that that people are saying. that we do. >> I can't speak Polish, but guess what I. can do? I can gather those needed legal. articulable facts to put together that. that individual is an illegal alien from. Poland. >> What do you make of that response, Hamemed? Because when you hear that. Border Patrol agents are showing up at a. Home Depot and picking people up because. they look Latino, it's hard to see how.

that isn't profiling. And of course, we're hearing that the people they're. picking up are often Latino citizens of. the United States. Yeah. I mean, the reality is that in the. arrests that we've seen in Los Angeles. and elsewhere, they are picking up. people often times who are Latino. And. these core questions of when and where. Border Patrol and immigration. enforcement agents can make arrests went.

all the way to the Supreme Court. >> and tell us what happened there. So, a. federal court judge had limited the way. Department of Homeland Security could. operate in Los Angeles, but the Supreme. Court blocked that order temporarily. And in his opinion, Justice Kavanaaugh. said that it wasn't the role of the. federal court judge to tell the. government what it could and could not. do when it came to immigration. enforcement. And in fact, Kavanaaugh. said that immigration officers can use.

ethnicity at least as a factor in the. decision to stop someone on the streets. And of course, I think this ruling. really kind of emboldened the Department. of Homeland Security and Greg Bavino to. continue with their actions in Los. Angeles and elsewhere. This is. Kavanaaugh basically agreeing with. Bovino's argument that ethnicity is a. legitimate factor that can be used as. agents are out there deciding who to. question on the streets. So Bo gets this.

legal validation from the highest court. at least temporarily. He's got the. administration's backing. What does he. do with that? Well, of course, they continue going. hard in Los Angeles, hitting Home Depot. and car washes, but the Trump. administration decides it's time for. Bevino and his agents to go from Los. Angeles to Chicago where they take. things up a level. >> It's hard to see, but there's a.

helicopter right there on on this. building. Early on in their time in. Chicago in September, they do this. operation unlike anything I've ever seen. before. >> And that helicopter has just inserted. snipers for the protection of all these. federal agents you can see entering the. building. >> Hundreds of agents surround an apartment. complex. They film a video showing agents.

repelling down from a helicopter, you. know, bright spotlights. It really looks. like an action movie, something like a. Michael Bay film. >> This is Bo having his Hollywood moment. >> Exactly. But that operation engenders a huge. response as well, right? I mean, this. was something people saw as as. particularly cruel. I remember the. images. There were people, children. pulled out of their homes in the middle.

of the night. How does Bo see this. operation? >> He's very proud of it. >> That was a highly successful operation, Hammad. Remember, there was a lot of. American citizens in that apartment. building that were being prayed upon by. violent gang members. So they I'm very. extremely proud of that large scale of. an operation. >> You know, he sees the operation as one. in which they got rid of bad people and. this is exactly the type of work that.

they should be doing. This was a. success. >> Um kudos to the agents there. They've. made that part of the city a safer. place. And you know, I think a lot of. folks would agree there with that. >> And was it a success actually? like what. do we know about that? >> Yeah. So, like we talked about before. with collateral arrests that happened. here. In some of the reporting that I've. done, I found at least a few of the. people who are arrested had no criminal. background. >> There were families who were arrested as.

well, but the administration. uh has not in the months since given us. any breakdown or any details of what. happened and the individuals who were. detained. So I think you know this operation in. many ways symbolizes the immigration. debate in the country. You know for for. one portion of the country this was an. overreach. Law enforcement agents. repelling down from helicopters. arresting a bunch of people at random at.

times completely inappropriate. Whereas. for Bavino and supporters of the Trump. administration this is exactly what. should happen ultimately if you're in. the country illegally and you're. arrested. That's the exact thing that. should happen. >> Yeah. This is very much in line with the. White House's policy of zero tolerance. You know, if you committed the crime of. crossing the border illegally, the. administration is going to go after you. and they say, "Look, this is what people. voted for. Bo is just following through.

on that.". >> Yeah. Bevino, DHS, ICE, the. administration, when they're talking. about their crackdown on immigration, at. the forefront, they want to talk about. people with criminal records. But when. you point to people who don't have. criminal records, they say, "Well, those. people crossed illegally and they're in. the country without any form of status, they should be arrested as well. There's. there's no forgiveness.". >> And what about any legal challenges to. these tactics? Where are the courts on. this today?

Yeah, there are lawsuits in Illinois. right now over the use of force by. border patrol agents there, which has. really been a hallmark of their. operation. Bevino was recently actually. called to testify in that case where a. judge uh seemed particularly skeptical. that it was necessary for agents to use. force on the streets during their. operations. I think by the end of the.

year uh we should expect that the. Supreme Court will weigh in one way or. another on Border Patrol's tactics and. in the meantime I think for Betheino and. DHS they believe what they're doing is. completely appropriate and necessary. Do. you ever worry that you're going too far. that people are saying you know the. descriptions of the operations you're. doing some of the use of force do you. ever worry about any excess enforcement? Does that ever come into your mind? >> Uh, no it doesn't because especially.

those inner city residents here in. Chicago who have been silenced been. silenced by the governor pritzers and. the mayor Johnson's those inner city. residents come out and say please stay. please do more. So, he's claimed that. he's been stopped by residents in Los. Angeles and Chicago who've said they. support what he's doing and he believes. that the people who are opposed, who are. protesting, they're actually in the. minority. What we do know is that his.

approach is fully in line with what the. Trump administration wants. the. leadership that the Secretary Gnome, the. Trump administration, President Trump, have you heard that that people are, you. know, supportive and happy with the work. that you're doing in the country? >> Well, yeah. Um, that leadership you're. talking about, I called that the the. leadership dream team. That light switch. that I said went off during the last. administration went back on on this. administration, except when it went on, it's so bright that I have to put. sunglasses on just to even see now. And.

so I asked him, you know, is this. operation, are you gonna take it to. other cities? >> That's the million-dollar question here. That's the million-dollar question. All. I can say is, uh, stay tuned. >> And, you know, he was a little bit koi, but it certainly seemed like yes. >> And they seem to be appreciative. We're. in lock step with Ma P America, with the. taxpayer. And thank you for having me. here on the podcast. >> Thank you so much for your time. I. really appreciate it. have a great day.

>> Let's do it again. Thank you. >> Okay, I hear the argument that he's. making, but that does seem to be in. conflict with all this public polling. that we're starting to see that gets at. the response to these tactics. Because. while the administration has empowered. Bovino, there are growing signs that. many voters really don't like these. methods. Yes, they might support. deportations, but they're not. necessarily in favor of this approach,

these aggressive scenes that we're. seeing play out, especially in Chicago. And so I wonder if you think there's any. risk politically here for Trump and his. administration in doubling down on Bo. and his style. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, we recently saw, uh, the president go on 60 Minutes and say. that in fact, agents aren't going far. enough. So, certainly for him, it seems.

like he's supportive of a more. aggressive approach. But you're right, I. think how this plays out with voters is. going to be key. We'll probably see some. of that in the midterm election next. year because these images are. everywhere. We're seeing them on a daily. basis. So until something changes either. in the courts or through an election, I. think Bevino's style and his influence. is only going to grow.

>> And I mentioned earlier some vacancies. within ICE, them replacing some senior. leaders inside the agency and across the. country. In fact, some of those people. have been replaced with ex CBP. officials. So officials who worked at. the agency that oversees the border. patrol are now being put in a position. to lead ICE. Do you hamemed take that as. a signal that what you described as. ISIS's more considered approach, more.

methodical approach is on the way out? What are the implications of that? Well, it's unclear right now, but one. thing I think is for sure, which is that. ICE is under pressure to deliver more. results. The Trump administration wants. more arrests. They want more. deportations. So, ICE is on notice. But I think as a result there could be.

increased violence and confrontation in. cities between protesters and the. federal government. >> Muhammad, thanks so much. [music]. >> Thank you for having me. On Tuesday, the Times reported that. Border Patrol officials led by Bavino. are expected to soon leave Chicago and. move their operations to Charlotte and. New Orleans.

We'll be right [music] back. [music]. Here's what else you should know today. On Tuesday, the US Navy's biggest and. most advanced aircraft carrier [music]. moved into the Caribbean region. The. move represented a substantial. escalation of US military might [music]. as the Trump administration weighs. taking military steps aimed at ousting.

Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro. [music]. News of the arrival of the carrier. called the Gerald R. Ford came a day. after Defense Secretary Pete [music]. Hexith announced that six more people. had been killed in strikes on boats that. he said were smuggling drugs in the. [music] Eastern Pacific Ocean. Those attacks raised the death toll in. the campaign [music] to 76 people since. September. The presence of the Ford alongside. [music] three missile firing Navy.

destroyers brings the total number of. military personnel [music] in the region. to more than 15,000. making it the largest US buildup in the. area in decades. Today's [music] episode was produced by. Carlos Prito, Stella Tan, and Mooj. Zadei. It was edited by [music] Rachel. Quester, Liz O Balin, and Michael. Benois. Research help by Susan Lee, contains music by Dan Pal [music] and.

Marian Lozano, and was engineered by. Alyssa Moxley. [music]. That's it for the Daily. I'm Natalie. Kitroak. See you tomorrow. [music].