An F.B.I. Informant, a Bombshell Claim, and an Impeachment Built on a Lie

see if we can do this do you want to. hear some of what I thought about it I. would like to hear that I'd like to hear. your thoughts on this episode yeah I. think this is a story about what happens. when intelligence and politics are. braided together and it's a story about. sources who sources are and how truthful. they are and how much they can be.

trusted and intelligence is not really. what it sounds like intelligence is the. raw information claims mutterings that. the intelligence Community collects as. it tries to understand the. world the problem with. intelligence is that it's really. alluring and this is a story about what. happens when intelligence this thing.

that should be closely guarded and used. by government officials to make. decisions is harnessed by politicians. for their political. [Music]. ends from The New York Times I'm Michael. babbaro this is the daily today Mike. Schmidt on how a single piece of. unverified intelligence became the. center piece of a republican attempt to.

impeach President Biden and what. happened once that intelligence was. discredited it's Monday March. [Music]. 4th so Mike if this is a story about a. piece of intelligence and its journey. through our government I think we should.

start there with the piece of. intelligence and the story behind it as. you probably remember heading into the. 2020 election Donald Trump rightly. identified Joe Biden as his biggest. political problem and he dispatched his. personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani to dig up. dirt on the Biden family Giuliani went. to Ukraine he met with these officials.

and figures there and he came back and. is basically like Joe Biden's son's. corrupt and Joe Biden is part of it and. made such a fuss that the Attorney. General Bill bar eventually asked a. United States Attorney in Pennsylvania. to essentially just deal with Rudy. listen to what Rudy has to say find out. if any of it is true and if it is pass. it along to the investigators who should. look at it.

I remember all this it was not about. Hunter Biden so much as tying Joe Biden. his father to his son's alleged. corruption exactly and what we didn't. know at the time was that the US. attorneys. investigators went back and looked. through government files and they see. that years earlier an FBI. informan told his Handler that had a.

contact at the Ukrainian Energy company. barisma where Joe Biden's son Hunter was. on the board on the board and very well. paid correct so that us attorney asks. that the FBI Handler go back and ask the. informant what he knows about Hunter. Biden and in. response the informant makes a very. salacious allegation which is what.

he says that Hunter Biden and his father. each took $5 million in bribes from. barisma and in exchange for that money. Joe Biden in his position as vice. president at the time would protect. barisma from corruption investigations. by a Ukrainian prosecutor in other words. Joe Biden took a politically motivated. bribe so this is the moment when this.

piece of intelligence we're talking. about in this episode is born and it's a. bombshell that a senior American elected. official former vice president. has gone Rogue and taken money from a. foreign company asking him to protect it. I mean a genuinely shocking claim well. it's potentially a bombshell or it's one. person telling his FBI hand Handler.

something he says he heard it's what one. informant relayed to the. FBI and this is really important what. we're looking at in this case is not. some polished product that's been vetted. and analyzed and put into the. presidential Daily Briefing what we're. talking about in this case is. information at the Bottom Rung of the. ladder for the intelligence Community. this is raw Source reporting that rolls. into the country's law enforcement and.

intelligence agencies from its sources. and informance it's something more akin. to rumor than a corroborated piece of. Intel got it so what ends up happening. to this piece of. intelligence what happens is that that. us attorney who was sifting through. these allegations about Hunter Biden. closes his inquiry and sends the bribery. allegation information.

to another United States Attorney in. Delaware who was investigating whether. Hunter Biden should be charge for his. taxes his purchase of a gun and his. foreign business. dealings and this is a big black hole in. the story we don't know what happens. with this information other than the. fact that it sits in the FBI's files and. then Biden wins the presidency and. Republicans who want to take down on the. president and are still seeking Revenge.

from the two impeachments of trump want. to find a link between Joe and his son. but they can't and that's the case for. three long. years until late last spring senator. from Iowa when Chuck Grassley the. senator from Iowa goes to the floor. thank you Mr President and in multiple. speeches he says that whistleblowers. have approached his office office to.

tell him that the FBI has very damaging. allegations on the Biden family the. allegations my office has received are. very precise very direct and very. consistent Grassley says that this. information is documented in a form that. the FBI uses all the time called a 1023. the 1023 that I sought from the FBI.

references a criminal scheme involving. then Vice President Biden and his. alleged receed of $5. million he says that politics has. infected the bureau and that this. information the FBI believes the source. to be credible which was given to the. FBI by a trusted informant it's not. being. investigated did the FBI follow Norm. noral investigative processes and.

procedures or did they just sweep this. under the rug and Congress and the. American people need to see what this. document says quit playing games and. recognize who you work for you're not. working to protect the corporate. interests of the FBI you're working for. the American people I. yield and almost on.

[Music]. Q the conservative media goes nuts with. it one of the FBI's top informants. reported an allegation that Joe Biden. took a $5 million bribe from a foreign. National in exchange for a policy. decision this was not just any. confidential human Source by the way now. it seems like that Source was highly. valued the new question is this is Joe. Biden still making good on the bribe and. we know the Democrat Party simply. doesn't care if Joe Biden took millions.

and bribes there is no set of evidence. that will ever be strong enough ever to. get them to say enough so as Grassley is. making these claims he and his allies in. the house subpoena the document from the. FBI there's a whole back and forth as. the FBI warns Congress look this is. unverified information that we have in. our files. we're not just going to hand this over.

to you right but the Republicans keep. the pressure on the FBI they threaten to. hold the FBI director Chris Ray in. contempt if he doesn't give them the. document and in the face of that Ray. allows Congress to see a redacted copy. of the document that shows what the. informant told the Handler this feels. like an important moment because this is. the FBI taking unverified intelligence. and allowing it to enter the political.

sphere I mean let's be honest the people. demanding this document are not members. of the House intelligence committee. trying to better understand us Ukraine. relations they are pretty. farri conservatives who are openly. seeking to find evidence against the. president and are doing this at the same. time that the FBI is saying look all. this document does is show what an.

informant told a Handler it shouldn't be. seen as anything more than that okay so. what happens once these Congressional. Republicans get a glimpse of this. document they come out in like a aha. moment and say we've got Joe Biden. connected to his son's corruption this. is the biggest political corruption. Scandal not only in my lifetime but I. would say the past 100 years the. evidence is overwhelming we're not.

talking about Republican partisan. Witnesses from some Far right-wing. conspiracy we're talking about FBI. informance trusted FBI informants coming. forth and by September with this bribery. allegation as the centerpiece that's why. today I am directing our house committee. to open a formal impeachment inquiry. into President Joe Biden Republicans. move ahead with an impeachment inquiry. into the president the American people.

deserve to know that the public offices. are not for sale and that the federal. government is not being used to cover up. the actions of a politically Associated. family and it's important to note that. Beyond this bribery allegation the. Republicans don't have much we will go. wherever the evidence takes. [Music]. us.

we'll be right. back so with the stakes of this Rising. by the moment we're now talking. impeachment in the house how Mike do we. come to understand that this cacious. bombshell claim was not in fact true so. in the wake of the Republicans kicking. up all this stuff about the allegation. that us attorney in Delaware finally. goes and investigates it takes that.

allegation of bribery that perhaps has. been sitting around his office and says. I'm going to figure out whether this is. real correct so working with the US. attorney the FBI Handler goes back to. the informant to talk about the. allegation to see what else is there. okay and the justice department starts. to have doubts about the accuracy of his. story why what explains that well let me. tell you a little bit about who the. informant is okay the informant is a guy.

in his early 40s named Alexander smof. he's been living in the US and he's been. an FBI informant for over a decade m in. that role he's provided information to. the bureau that led to criminal. investigations and even more he's. received special dispensation from the. FBI to go out and conduct criminal. activity as he gets information for this. Bureau okay so he's a valuable Source.

why does the justice department suddenly. have doubts about him because his story. is not holding up to scrutiny smaroff. had said that he learned about the. allegation in. 2015 or. 2016 but he actually hadn't been talking. to anyone at burisma until. 2017 after Joe Biden had left office as. vice president he also said he saw. footage of Hunter Biden entering a hotel.

in Ukraine and that there were audio. recordings of Hunter talking about the. bribe but hunter hadn't been to Ukraine. at that point so these inconsistencies. were really alarming to the FBI and on. top of that the informant is telling his. Handler about how much he doesn't like. Joe Biden and how much Joe Biden's ties. to Ukraine are going to take down his. presidency and perhaps even more. troublingly the informant tells the FBI.

that he's recently been in touch with. Russian intelligence officials who have. been feeding him their own information. including some on Hunter Biden in other. words the informant might be a Russian. asset might be doing the bidding of the. Russian government which has a long. history of trying to feed misinformation. into the American political system we. learned that of course in 2016 correct. so ultimately Mike what concl clusion. does the FBI and this us attorney draw.

about this informant when they go back. and start finding all these. inconsistencies and problems that he. can't be trusted about anything and that. he fabricated the bribery claim H we. learn all this because something. extraordinary and unusual happens the. justice department just a couple of. weeks ago indict the informant for lying. to the FBI and now he's sitting in jail.

awaiting trial H you said that arresting. this informant was unusual so why does. the US government charge the informant. what's unique here is that the. government usually doesn't charge. informant informants are not nuns and. Priests they're people that are playing. in the dirty parts of the. world sometimes they tell the truth. sometimes they shade it sometimes s they. make things up and in that at times are.

really important kernels that the US. government has to learn about and if you. charge. informants you're going to deter other. informants from talking to the bureau. because they know oh man if I make a. mistake I too make get charge myself so. should we understand the fact that the. government charges this informant as. perhaps a measure of just how offended. they were by the nature of the lies he. told and based on the fact that it.

contributes to an impeachment inquiry. the oversized impact that it had I don't. know but I think you might be right this. is something that was weaponized by a. political party and used essentially as. the centerpiece of an impeachment. inquiry and the weight of that lie the. importance of it was more than just your. average allegation mhm M and I don't.

know that that is the reason that they. did this but certainly it's hard to not. think that it contributed to it in some. way Mike I think it's worth just pausing. and reflecting on what you just told us. because what the Journey of this piece. of intelligence tells us is that House. Republicans and to a degree Senate. Republicans Chuck Grassley took a single. strand of raw. intelligence that they had been told was.

never verified and they ran with it in. the biggest way possible they made it a. centerpiece of their efforts to link a. sitting president with the foreign. business dealings of his son claimed it. represented corruption and they made it. the. centerpiece of their efforts to impeach. Joe Biden and now we know that the. government regards that information as a.

fabrication and the informant who. delivered it as a serial liar that's a. pretty remarkable story it's. extraordinary and it's also not how the. system is supposed to work right. intelligence is not supposed to be. harnessed by. politicians to knock off their enemies. it's supposed to be there to inform. decision makers as they look at this. crazy big confusing world and try to. make the right call right so like you.

said in every way this seems to be a. case study of how. intelligence is not properly handled in. our system and I and I wonder therefore. what the larger lesson of this is I mean. is it about picking better informance is. it about running. intelligence down better making sure you. figure out if something's true and don't. just lock it away in a file cabinet is. is it about never giving it to lawmakers.

who could abuse it I mean what what is. the meaning of this story I think it's. about being humble to the fact that just. because one person said something. doesn't necessarily mean it's true mhm. and that when we hear things that. there's a bit of skepticism that not. everything that is recorded by the. government or said public is true and.

that we have to have some humility to. the fact that this is a really complex. crazy world and not every disclosure. answers the major questions of the. moment and I think that in a time where. there's a ton of uncertainty people. grasp for these things and they try to. use them to make their point but at the. end of the day it may not be true so. that of course brings us to the question. of where this all leaves this.

impeachment inquiry I mean the. foundation of it the missing link the. alleged Smoking Gun you know. evaporates and its source is branded a. Serial liar and fabricator by the US. government does that kneecap the. Republicans impeachment process the. Hardline Republicans have said this. indictment it's just the next part of. the coverup M it's just the next way. that the FB bi is doing the bidding of.

the Biden crime family so you're saying. many of the Republicans who first relied. on this now false. intelligence are undeterred by the fact. that it has been branded fake by the. government and are now also claiming. that this. allegation was not that Central to the. impeachment inquiry but it was. correct if you are a foreign government. who wishes America ill if you are Russia.

you have to be watching all this and. kind of licking your chops right I mean. whether or not Russia fed this informant. misinformation about a bribe involving. Hunter and Joe Biden the Journey of this. piece of. intelligence. suggests that feeding misinformation. into our system is still a very reliable. way to wreak havoc in the United States. political. system it's not the first time we've.

learned that lesson but it's an. incredibly Vivid example that it still. could do a tremendous amount of damage. it almost seems too easy for our. adversaries you think of intelligence. operations as these really complex. things that involve gadgets and double. agents but to get the United States. [Music]. ramped up and huffing and puffing and.

impeaching its president you really just. need to feed one side something that. fits their narrative right and they. followed out the. window well Mike thank you very much. thanks for having. [Music]. me. we'll be right.

back here's what else you need to know. day over the weekend Donald Trump won. three more nominating contests in. Michigan Missouri and Idaho doubling his. delegate count and making clear that his. last remaining rival Nikki Haley has no. real path forward so far Haley has won. just a single primary the District of.

Colombia Trump is expected to officially. clinch the Republican nomination by the. end of the month and LeBron dribbles at. Porter sizes him up 360 spin to the rim. head in there it is 40,000 LeBron makes. history at LeBron James has become the. first player in NBA history to score. 40,000 career points after making a. left-hand layup during the LA Lakers. matchup against the Denver Nuggets on.

Saturday the Milestone may help to. settle a long running debate over who is. the greatest NBA player of all time. James the times wrote is now quote all. by himself in the annals of basketball. [Music]. history today's episode was produced by. Ricky n. Olivia Nat and will Reed it was edited.

by MJ Davis Lynn and Devin Taylor fact. checked by Susan Lee contains original. music by Maran Lozano and Alicia bitu. and was engineered by Alysa Moxley our. theme music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. Lanser of. [Music]. wonderly.

that's it for the daily I'm Michael Boro. see you. [Music]. tomorrow.