All the President’s Planes

From the New York [music] Times, I'm. Rachel Abrams and this is the Daily. [music]. Last month, President Trump made a. dramatic exit from a visit to [music]. Turkey. He switched his plane to the. last minute to an older Air Force One, which caused confusion and prompted. concerns about the safety of the. president's planes. But this week, we learned that was all a. ruse. And so today, I'm joined [music].

by Maggie Haberman, who tells us the. story of a third plane, how Trump got on. it, and why the administration worked so. hard to keep it all a secret. [music]. It's Wednesday, August 12th. Maggie Hipperman, welcome back to the. Daily. Rachel, thanks for having me. So, Maggie, our colleague Tyler Paige was on.

the show a few weeks ago and he told us. the story that is probably by now a. little familiar, which is that Trump. switched off of a jet he had gotten from. the Qataris and he switched to the old. Air Force One plane because of a. credible threat. And what this did was. it prompted a lot of concerns that the. Qatari jet was not properly outfitted. with whatever safety measures it would. need in order to carry the president. safely. Now the administration, as we. know, was not happy that we reported. that. Some of our colleagues got. subpoenenaed and all of this made for a.

very dramatic story and now we have come. to learn that we didn't actually know. the half of it. Yeah. So, as often. happens with White House in general, we. often don't know the half of it. This is. a particularly vivid example of not. knowing the half of it for a variety of. reasons. Rachel, please tell us the. story. >> Sure. So, what we knew was that the. president was in Turkey for the NATO. summit and he had taken this new jet. that had been donated by Qatar that had. previously flown some Qatari Royals.

It's more luxurious than the very old. commissioned Boeings that first went. into use in 1990 and that the president. has complained about a lot. I cannot. stress to you how large that guitar. plane is. I flew on it as pool last week. and it's really big and I don't like. flying and I was very struck by how big. it was. It's overwhelming. >> You and I actually talked about that. plane on the show before and I believe. we referred to criticisms of it as a. flying bribe but please go on. >> Those were the criticisms of it and.

still are. Regardless, it was pushed. into service very quickly because the. president wanted it quick, and that. meant that it did not have the same. security specifications that the older. Air Force ones do. >> So, he is in Turkey. He's on this plane. that he was very, very proud of. I mean, really, this is somebody who a actually. does know a lot about airplanes. He's. owned them. He talks about them a lot. People in his government in term one. were pretty surprised by it. number two.

likes talking about the new toys aspect. and this is what what his own aids would. say. >> But suddenly he posted on Truth Social. they were going to fly the older Air. Force One which often travels as a. backup with another Air Force One. >> for quote unquote oldtime sake. >> He was going to meet up with the newer. plane, the Qatari plane. >> at a military base in the UK. For. anybody who has heard Donald Trump talk. about the old Air Force One, the notion. of old times sake was a little hard to.

believe. >> because he was constantly criticizing. it. >> Correct. It even seemed like the kind of. sentimental trip he would want to take. So that instantly raised a lot of. questions for the reporters who were. both with him and back here in the US. >> That's a lot of press. >> He got asked about it at this press. conference. Um, I'd like you to address. uh speculation that you're leaving Ankra. not in the new Air Force One because of. security concerns involving Iran. >> He started talking about, >> you know, the life of a president is.

very dangerous. >> How he's the number one target for Iran. >> It's a very dangerous profession. No, I'm number one on the kill list for. Iran. They're lovely people. I'm number. one. So, I don't know. Well, I can't. tell you that, but I don't really care. because I'm doing my job and I'm doing. it, I hope, better than anybody's ever. done it because we have a country. >> And that comment further raised. questions about what might be on his. mind and what exactly was happening here. in terms of how they were departing from. Turkey. >> Thank you all very much. We'll see you.

back. >> You know, the press conference is over. fairly soon. He went to the Ankara. airport. He got into the older Air Force. One. That plane took off. The reporters. on it were told to lower their window. shades, which was a real flag for me and. other people at the time because it was. evocative of ferative trips that. presidents have taken into war zones. before. For instance, when presidents. have landed in Iraq, they were told to. put the window shades down so that.

lights are not shining out because they. can be a target. So this plane arrives. in the UK and it's sitting on the tarmac. for a little bit and then the reporters. disembark and then soon after that. >> the president disembarks shortly before. 11 p.m. local time and he walks from Air. Force One, the older one to the Qatari. plane. So those were the known facts and. then our reporters got hit with. subpoenas for reporting the concerns. about a threat and also the deficiencies. in the uh defensive capabilities of the.

new plane. What we've learned since is. that the president wasn't on either one. of those planes. He was on a third plane. >> and they were using a decoy measure. which is intended to mask the. president's whereabouts because there. was a threat that was as we understand. it deemed credible. [music]. >> So tell us that story about the decoy. What what are we talking about? What. happened? What have we learned since our. colleagues initially reported that the. president had taken the old Air Force. One? >> Sure. And and I need to give a massive.

hat to to our friends at the Washington. Post who broke this story. You know, we. we caught up to some of it, but they. reported and we reported that the. president instead of leaving on the. older Air Force One, which is what he. had said. >> Mhm. And what we had seemed to have. seen, >> correct? The president and some aids, they walked from that door, which is on. the left hand side of the plane of the. old Air Force One. old Air Force One and. appears to have walked directly across.

to another door where one of those giant. catering containers that services. airplanes, commercial airplanes, too. >> Mhm. >> Is attached to the door and it's lifted. on a hydraulic. And the president and. some other people get off of the plane. and get onto this container. [music]. Just to be clear, this is the thing that. we see that is bringing our airplane. food to us, right? That like goes up to. a plane and like unloads those trays.

that we all eat from. >> as we understand it. Okay. So, they. lower the hydraulic lift and and the. container comes down and at the same. time the reporters are being told to. close their window shades, which. apparently was done so that they. couldn't see any of this. >> That cart then takes the president. either to another vehicle or directly to. a third plane. >> Wait. Okay. So, the president gets on. this plane. Everybody thinks that he's. getting on the plane, right? And instead. of actually getting onto the plane and. getting to wherever the president sits, you're saying he walks directly across.

and gets into a catering cart. >> Correct. >> What it made me think of instantly was. um Taylor Swift, you know, in that. cleaning cart when she would go out to. her concerts and they would bring her on. stage so the people in the seats high up. backstage at like Madison Square Garden. couldn't see her walking on stage. So it. was just the illusion of just suddenly. showing up. And so this obviously was. much more serious and I somehow doubt. that the president enjoyed being in what. I can imagine was not the best smelling. catering container. Anyway, so he goes.

for this third plane. The third plane. leaves. We have no idea whether it left. before or after the older Air Force One. >> But at [clears throat] this point, the. Qatar plane is either at the US military. base in the UK already or it is about to. be. When the older Air Force One lands, according to the pool report filed by. the reporter on the plane, >> it was 10:16 p.m. local time. They. deplaned at some point, the reporter. pool. And this is typical. The reporters.

will get off of Air Force One before the. president does. We will get in place, you know, to wait to capture him coming. downstairs and possibly coming over to. talk to the reporters. In this case, the. president did not disembark from this. older Air Force One out the front door. that he had been seen going into back in. Ankura. >> until 10:56 p.m. So that's 40 minutes. after the plane touches down, Wheels. down. That was a fair amount of time. during which the president was brought. by vehicle, as we understand it, from.

the third plane to that other side. entrance on the older Air Force One and. walked off as if he had been there the. whole time. Okay. So, basically the. president does not do his typical thing. of disembarking, maybe talking to. reporters. There's about a 40-minute lag. where they sneak him back onto the plane. so that nobody is the wiser. Is that. correct. >> what we understand? Okay. And so, the. people who were on the, let's call it. the decoy plane, for lack of a better. term, up until very recently, up until. this Washington Post report, they had no. idea that they were on the.

>> plane that the president deliberately. didn't use because of a safety threat. that his team at least thought was. credible enough to not have him fly on. Is that right? >> Well, we want to be clear about what we. know and what we don't know. We don't. know whether any of them knew or didn't. know what was happening there. So, I. don't want to, you know, speak broadly. >> Fair enough. Okay. >> The reporters absolutely didn't know as. far as we're aware. I I I I think I can. speak pretty comfortably to that effect. >> cuz I the thing that I wonder about is. whether or not people actually knew at.

the time. If I'm one of those people. reading this coverage now, I might be. thinking to myself, how much danger was. I actually in? Obviously the nobody. takes any chances with the president of. course but I would imagine people are. wondering like how serious on the sort. of the scale of serious threats the. president got this was yeah and and I. don't know that we're going to know the. answer to that Rachel what what we were. told and we've reported previously was. that there was a threat that was from. Iranian proxies and you know this is. after the president has begun this war.

on February 28th in Iran and it has not. gone the way he thought it was going to. He has long faced threats. The federal. government, the US Secret Service, intel. officials, they all make decisions with. the president's protection as the. paramount. That should not be a surprise. to anyone. >> I I hear everything that you're saying, Maggie, about, you know, the risk. assessment, but I I feel worth pointing. out here though that the the. administration has maintained that Air. Force One that that plane was was safe.

and it has also maintained that the Qar. plane was safe. But if either of these. planes were safe, you would not need a. decoy to begin with, right? Like. >> not necessarily. Again, we don't know. what we don't know. So, I don't want to. speak to how these kinds of operations. work. You know, one of the things that. we talked about in our story that posted. Monday night and and one of the things. that our colleague Jonathan Swan and I. got into in in the book that we. >> wrote about the first year that Trump. was back, regime change, was this siege.

mentality that this administration has. Mhm. >> Part of it was formed during the 2024. campaign when the president was also. facing threats from Iran and those. stemmed from his drone strike against. General Kasim Sulammani in early 2020. Everybody who was connected to that. strike in his administration faced. threats after the fact. There were. murder for higher plots against him. There were two unrelated assassination. attempts that year, one of them in. Butler, Pennsylvania. So that has been.

their mindset, you know, that when. you're a nail, everything feels like a. hammer. And so I do believe that that. impacts some of their decisions. That. having been said, the issue is in part. that they have such a credibility. crisis, this administration. >> They say up is down and night is day. about so many things that there will be. more concerns about what actually. happened here, about how much risk he.

was in, about the decision to take this. move. According to our reporting, it was. done very hastily. It was not something. that was long planned for. I don't think. that I can speak confidently about. whether the Qatari plane is safe, quote. unquote, but they did choose to take. this plane that lots of people had. concerns about whether it was fully. secure. Then they chose to put out. themselves that they were taking a. different plane. >> Right. And what's so interesting about. that, Maggie, is that like we have been.

talking this entire time about the. Qatari plane, the Qatari plane, whether. it was safe, whether it was safe enough. for the president, whether it was rush, etc. And as you mentioned, the actual. story might have nothing to do with. that. The actual story might have to do. with some kind of misdirection. We just. didn't know what kind. I think that the. the actual story has to do with both. I. do. And I will say that, you know, while. it is obviously unsettling to look back. and think about the fact that reporters. and some White House staff and some Air. Force staff were were on a decoy plane, >> the plane that they were traveling on.

was the safer plane as we understand it. in terms of the capabilities should. anything. >> compared to the plane. Correct. And so I. do think that that's worth bearing in. mind. [music]. But I think the bigger issue is still. that we and other journalists are still. surmising what we can and we don't know. what we don't know because this. administration. despite its great claims of transparency. actually is not. [music].

We'll be right back. >> [music]. >> Okay, Maggie, I want to talk about the. issues around transparency that you. mentioned and what that means. But. first, I feel like a lot of people are. going to hear this and think the Secret. Service, the president's team made all.

of this effort to have a decoy plane and. to keep him out of harm's way. And I. wonder how serious that is. And was that. even for the best? Was that the right. move? And and what were they assessing? And I wonder how you would respond to. that. >> Those are all real questions, Rachel. And you know, again, I want to be clear. here. We are not in law enforcement. We. are not in the intelligence community. We're not in the Secret Service. So, they have a different job than we do. And any aspect of the federal government. that was involved in this, they have. real reasons for operating the way they. do. And again, their premier concern is.

keeping the president safe. And that is. what we would expect them to do. And. based on this scramble, they were. behaving as if there was a credible. threat. >> and they made decisions to try to. protect the president. We know the. president has been under a yearslong. threat from Iran. The president worries. about his own safety, but he doesn't. make these decisions on his own. The. entire top of the US government was. moving to protect the president.

>> I don't know anyone among us who would. not want to see the president kept safe. So that is all understandable. Sure. >> That is a separate question. in terms of how it was presented and. because this administration has claimed. emergency powers on other matters so. often. >> because they never briefed Congress. about this war. >> because they are blowing up boats that.

are are coming up from the Caribbean and. saying that they are terrorist boats. >> Mhm. without really explaining things to. the public. That is part of why the. press and not only the press often want. to hear more. >> Right. You are basically saying this. should not just be dismissed as a simple. story of the Secret Service being very. competent in keeping the president safe. That the lack of transparency makes this. more complicated for an administration. that has claimed such broad powers and. has basically pushed the envelope in so.

many ways. Can you just explain a little. bit more about that, Maggie? Because the. inverse is that reporters should have. known that he was sneaking out of a. catering cart. Like that also feels like. that would be a security. So just just. explain a little bit what the line is. between what reporters should know and. what they should report and whether this. is unusual in some way. It's a fair. question and on some of these things. obviously these are judgment calls but. there have been other instances where. presidents have used decoys. M the very.

famous one is when Bill Clinton was. taking a plane from India to Pakistan. This was in the spring of 2000. And this. plane that looked like Air Force One. that the press could see touches down. and they emerge, but an unmarked plane, according to reports at the time, landed. And then Bill Clinton gets off. that plane. And there was a very small. group of people who were covering this. trip as reporters. One of them was Susan.

Page at USA Today. She knew about this. She knew ahead of time that this was. happening and it was out of security. concerns. >> and she knew because the the. administration told her, >> correct? The press and security. officials summoned her told her what was. happening. They told her about the. safety measures that were being put in. place for reporters and the president. And that was uh something that she. agreed to in terms of uh in terms of. covering this. >> She agreed to not report on that. She. agreed, at least for her sake, that she.

knew that the president wasn't on Air. Force One, that they were, and she. didn't disclose it. >> Maggie, can I just Why would the. administration even bother telling her. something that they were then going to. ask her not to report? >> It's because these are judgment calls, and actually it ensures the president's. safety in that case. That really is the. goal. >> There have been presidents, including. the current one in his first term, who. went to Iraq on a, you know, Christmas. trip. The reporters who were on the. plane were called at the last minute.

They were told they had to keep this. quiet. >> and they did. And. there is a trust factor. The idea is the. president is on the move that you know. where he is. We are making a good faith. effort to show you where he is and what. has happened. And that is important. I. mean there there are reasons that the. press needs to know where the president. is and so that they can convey it to the. public. And so something like September. 11th, 2001, where disaster strikes and.

the president of the United States at. the time, George W. Bush, found himself. aboard Air Force One with a very slim. down press pool. They knew where he was, but he was making decisions on a. moment's notice. And so it really is. about visibility to the public because. we are the public's eyes and ears. >> And it also sounds like it's important. because it's the administration trying. to have some kind of a trust with the. press because as we know newsrooms, newspapers, news organizations, they do. get requests from the government that.

says, "Look, we know you know this, but. please don't report it because of. national security concerns." And those. requests are evaluated on a case- by. case basis. And so I think what you're. telling me is that it is important to. have some level of trust between the. administration and the press, which. makes me wonder if the breakdown of that. trust as indicated by this story and by. the relationship this administration has. with the current press, what the. implications are for both, I don't know, the president's safety and also just. public safety.

It's a good question. It is an important. point as to why so much mistrust of the. media by this White House plus efforts. to try to control what the press is. reporting on bases that really they. sometimes claim national security and. it's very hard to see where there's an. actual national security or privacy. concern. They have used that so many. times that it degrades credibility. >> The president has criticized coverage he. doesn't like as treasonous. M. >> he has as an individual sued news.

organizations and he is using the levers. of government to try to control. broadcast news when he can. >> and that all creates this very different. climate that is not really productive. for anybody but certainly doesn't help. them in a moment when they need people. to believe them that there is something. very bad going on potentially. Is there. a world, Maggie, where because the. administration does not trust the press. at all that this is somehow making the.

president less safe? I think there is a. very good argument for that, Rachel. I. mean, again, they were the ones who made. public that he was taking a different. plane and then they got angry that. reporters asked about it. There is a. world where there could have been an off. thereord conversation describing what. was happening where the press would then. report it later but would not have. potentially jeopardized anybody. [music]. >> The reality is the press has a different.

job than they do. Our job is. accountability, but presidents [music]. are also accountable to the public. >> And this is an administration that. generally has not behaved that way. And. in this instance [music] at least, it. really worked across purposes for them. Maggie Haberman, thank you so much. >> Rachel, thanks for having me. [music]. [music]. >> On Tuesday evening, the Times reported.

that Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessend, and. Steven [music] Miller, the president's. top domestic policy adviser, were all on. board the decoy plane. [music]. Rubio had been aware of the threat that. had kept President Trump off the plane, but it was unclear who else, if anyone, also knew. [music] And at least some. White House staff traveling on the plane. were not aware. [music]. We'll be right back.

Here's what else you need to know today. [music] Search and rescue efforts. continued on Tuesday, the day after a. deadly earthquake struck Colombia, with. firefighters toiling [music] in searing. heat to pull people out of the rubble. At least 181 people have been confirmed. dead so far, with more than 1300 people. injured [music]. and 153 buildings collapsed. Officials. said they expected the numbers to rise. Today's episode was produced by Anna.

Foley [music] and Michelle Bona. It was. edited by Brendan Clinkenberg and Devon. Taylor and contains music by Alicia, [music]. Rowan Demisto, and Pat McCusker. Our. theme music is by Wonderly. This episode. was engineered by Alyssa [music] Moxley. [music]. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel. Abrams. See you tomorrow.