After a Crushing Defeat, Trump Doubles Down

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel. Abrams, and this is the Daily. [music]. >> We got to make we got to make moves. Sometimes sometimes in life you have to. make one of them. >> In response to a historic rebuke last. week [music] at the polls, President. Trump has announced that he is elevating. White House advisor Stephen Miller, the. person responsible for some of the most. aggressive and controversial policies of. Trump's second [music] term. >> Stephen's been with me from the. beginning. He he gets it. Very good.

politically, and he's a very good man. He'll do a great job. Great manager. >> And so today, White House reporters. Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. [music] explain what Miller's. appointment as White House Chief of. Staff tells us about Trump's priorities. [music]. for his final two years. It's Monday, [music] November 9th. Jonathan, Maggie, thank you both so much. for talking to us on a Sunday morning.

>> Thanks for having us. >> So after what has been described as an. extinction level result in the midterm. elections for Republicans, the obvious. question has been what if any changes. President Trump would make in response. to this kind of a defeat. And on Friday, we got part of an answer, which is that. Susie Wiles, Chief of Staff, she is out, and her replacement would be Stephen. Miller, who is one of the president's. most trusted and most controversial. aides. Just to start off, I want Jonathan for. you to tell us what the promotion of.

Miller shows us about the agenda moving. forward. >> Well, the first thing it shows is that. the president's comments directly after. the midterms, that he wants to work with. Democrats, that he wants to compromise, that he thinks, you know, there's lots. of potential to do deals with them. I think we can. completely discount that. Stephen Miller is a signal that he. really has no interest in this type of. governance. Stephen Miller is. the most deeply.

of his senior staff. He's someone who's. described the Democratic party as not. even a political party, but rather a. domestic extremist organization. He is. going to put this administration on a. war footing, not just defensively. You. know, they were already preparing for. investigations and subpoenas and. oversight, but offensively. Stephen. Miller is going to be looking at what. can they be doing proactively to. re-energize the Republican MAGA base,

get them excited again about this. president, about this administration, not just immigration where he's very. well known for being hard right, but. other culture war issues. So I think we. can expect a base base base strategy and. no interest really whatsoever in even a. gesture towards bipartisanship. >> And the other piece, Rachel, that I. would just note is. most people believe this was.

Stephen Miller's ultimate goal for this. term was to be the chief of staff. It was still surprising to a lot of. people that the president pulled the. trigger on it because the president does. know what it means and how it will be. taken as a as a symbol of massive. aggression. >> Well, okay. So let's drill into that. appointment a little bit because. Susie Wiles, the woman that Stephen. Miller has replaced, she had largely. been seen as kind of a force of. stability for a president who in his. first term just sort of churned through. chiefs of staff. So explain to us why.

exactly he felt that she needed to go. >> I mean, the reality, Rachel, is that in. any mid-term cycle, if you have this. level of sweeping losses, a chief of. staff is going to get replaced in in any. administration, especially with a. president who does not ever blame. himself for anything. She came in, you know, very loyal to. him. She also brought with her a group of. people who were loyal to her, but who. also believed in the president wanted to. see him succeed. And she primarily did.

not see her job as. changing him. She did not see her job. as, you know, protecting the country. from him. the way a number of his first term aides. did. But she was somebody who. is not particularly ideological. You. know, she was fairly flexible on a bunch. of these issues. and willing to go along with what the. president wanted. She was somebody who the business. community believed that they could reach. out to, particularly when they were. upset about. Stephen Miller's push for aggressive.

crackdowns on immigration, especially. after what we saw in Minnesota. But she was taking on a lot of incoming. The president did not like stories that. he was seeing about people close to her. making money in different respects. You. know, our colleague Ken Vogel broke a. story about. two of Trump's top political advisors. who are aligned with her. taking a trip to the Balkans three weeks. before the midterms elections after. something completely unrelated. President never likes that. And so. all of these factors combined to make it.

a pretty destabilized environment. And the president was very angry after. the midterm losses. And he, you know, Jonathan and I reported on this last. week, he was. pretty brutal to her in front of a bunch. of people about the losses. >> Brutal how? >> Just blaming her, including on election. night in the East Room in front of other. people at his watch party. >> Is it fair that the president is blaming. Susie Wiles for this massive loss? What. can we say about that, Jonathan? >> Well, she's the chief of staff, but the way.

people understand that role usually. rests on history. where the chief of staff means a. gatekeeper. It has a particular function. in the White House. The role doesn't. actually really exist for Donald Trump. It It can't. Donald Trump doesn't allow. gatekeeping, proper gatekeeping. He has. people like Natalie Harp who give others. a direct channel to him. >> Mhm. >> He likes to pick up the phone himself. and, you know, give orders which his. aides may or may not know about. You saw.

recently he hired a new press secretary. It was a complete disaster. She lasted. five days. >> Katie Zacarai, right? >> Susie Wiles had no role whatsoever in. that and and it was given to her as a. fait accompli. So a normal chief of. staff would have absolute authority over. such a decision. It's a key appointment. on the staff that she is supposedly the. chief of. So yes, she had influence. Yes, she had a big role in policy, but. the notion that she steered all of the. policy, it just doesn't comport with the.

facts. And if you talk about the biggest. decision that he made that polling shows. had the biggest effect on the midterm. results, the decision to go to a war in. Iran, she had absolutely no role in that. decision. And in fact, almost absented. herself from having an opinion in these. big meetings that led to the war in. Iran. >> There's no question that the war was the. huge factor, but it was certainly not. the only one. Uh the tariff policy was. something that the president had wanted. to try for a very long time. He insisted.

on. going. to war with the entire world on trade. >> Mhm. >> Uh that was something that the chief. tried fulfilling his wishes on, and it. was calamitous because of how the. president wanted it to go. So, you know, things tend to end only one way with the. president for his staff, and it's not. really a surprise that this is how this. went. >> And and look, Stephen Miller has much. more experience in the West Wing than. Susie Wiles has at a senior level. He is. much more knowledgeable about where the.

levers of power are in inside the. government. Um he knows more about. policy than her. So it's very possible. that he could exert more influence over. a wider range of policies, particularly. national security. Stephen Miller spent. a lot of time thinking about what he. wants to achieve. Trump is a vehicle for. his own vision that he's had in some. respects since he was a teenager. And so. he has much more of a vision for what he. wants to accomplish in government than. Susie Wiles ever did.

>> So tell us more about that vision. Like. what was Stephen Miller's pitch to the. president, insofar as there was one, to. become Chief of Staff about what he. wanted the agenda to be or thought the. agenda should be at these next two. years. >> So Stephen Miller wanted the job and he. lobbied for it and he allowed his allies. to advocate for it and the pitch they. made to senior officials and others who. would be influential in helping him get. the job was that he would help. get the base back together.

>> Mm. >> You know, this [snorts] midterm. elections was a calamity for the Trump. team. because. you look at the the breakdown of the. data, every single part of their. coalition. left. in big numbers. Men, younger people, white non-college. educated. This is the core of the Trump. base and they moved away from the. Republican They either stayed home or. they switched their vote to Democrats. And so Stephen Miller made the case that.

he was best placed to reassemble the. MAGA base, the MAGA coalition, getting. back to the policies that got Trump. elected in the first place in 2024. >> I want to make one point, Rachel. The coalition that elected Donald Trump. back into office in 2024 was a. combination of MAGA, hardcore base, Trump folks, and then people who the. Trump team seemed to have confused as. being MAGA. when they were just not happy with Joe.

Biden. And that includes some black. voters, some Hispanic voters, some Arab. voters in Michigan, for instance. And. those are people who are not actually. part of the coalition. Those are voters. who have been. in many cases flipping back and forth in. elections for. more than a decade. And so the policies that Stephen Miller. is is looking at primarily more. immigration crackdowns because that is. Stephen's agenda,

that is overwhelmingly unpopular in the. country. And doubling down on. immigration is going to appeal to. probably about 40% of the country, but. not the rest. And and if that much. So. it's just important to bear in mind. how narrowly tailored what Stephen. Miller's policies are likely to be in. terms of their appeal. >> And it goes without saying that having. Stephen Miller in there tells the base. that they're going to go in a more. hardline direction on immigration.

Another area where Miller made a a big. pitch is the MAHA agenda, Make America. Healthy Again, the Bobby Kennedy agenda, um skepticism about vaccines, skepticism. about Big Pharma, about Big Ag. And. there is a sense within the MAHA. movement that. the Susie Wiles run White House was much. too open for business, much too open to. industry and lobbyists. And what Stephen. Miller and his allies are trying to.

convey, trying to put out there, we'll see if it actually happens, is. that they will be much less beholden to. special interests and lobbyists. That's. part of the pitch. And the other thing that he said and his. allies have conveyed is that Stephen. Miller understands that they need to end. this war in Iran. >> Well, explain that because that is. obviously the major point that. Republicans have been focusing on in the. wreckage of the midterm is the war in. Iran. So what is his proposal exactly?

>> Well, it's it's not entirely clear and. I'm not sure how thought out it is. I. mean, the first thing to know is Stephen. Miller has not been a major player in. any of the Iran war discussions. He was. not a significant part of the planning. for the war. He has been a huge promoter. and booster of Pete Hegseth, who has. been the closest thing to a cheerleader. for this war. And Stephen Miller has. helped defend and protect Hegseth from a. lot of people who wanted him out of the.

job. So. on one hand, he doesn't really have a track record on. this issue that would suggest that he. has major concerns about it. He defended. the war vociferously in public, but so. did many of the others. And we do know. that just about everyone in Trump's. inner circle had serious doubts about. this war before they went to the war. The only person, however, that actually. raised those doubts in an aggressive way. in meetings with Trump before the war.

was the Vice President JD Vance. The. rest largely kept them to themselves. But what Maggie and I have learned in. our reporting is that Stephen Miller has. been conveying to people and his allies. have been conveying to people after the. midterm election that he understands. that the war has been a disaster. politically. and that getting out of it is very. important to start the process of. rebuilding and reassembling the base. >> Okay, but given all of that, I wonder if we can read Stephen Miller's.

appointment as Trump also wanting to. wind down the war. >> I don't think the president quite. knows what he wants to do with Iran. right now. He recognizes it's a mess. Whether he will, you know, explicate that or not. publicly. But what comes next, I think is not. clear and I wouldn't overread. Miller's ascension based on that. [music]. Trump. at the end of the day is the driver of.

all of this and he is going to do what. he wants. [music]. And President Trump, more than any other. point in either of his terms, is. operating on pure gut and instinct and. his belief that he knows best. We'll be right back. [music]. So Jonathan, Maggie, you've been talking.

to us about these massive shakeups that. have happened in the last week. But. I feel like in the run-up to the. midterms, I just read story after story. about how all the polls showed that. there was either going to be a blue wave. or a blue. Obviously, polls are not always right. and can often be unreliable, but. it does make me wonder how much any of. this drubbing that we've seen that. Republicans got in the midterms was. anticipated. And in particular, how much. Trump himself actually expected what we.

saw on Tuesday. >> Well, Maggie, myself and our colleague. Shane Goldmacher did a lot of reporting. behind the scenes of this midterm. elections. And as part of that. reporting, we got access to quite a few. private polls and private focus groups. from the Trump team. Back in December. last year, they knew they had a problem. Trump's polling was softening. He was. losing ground on some of his top issues. Voters were starting to question his.

handling of immigration. And. the economy, handling the economy, which. has always been Trump's strong suit, voters were starting to question him on. that as well. So this is last December. That's before the war. The war made everything worse. And when. it got into the summer, their polling. started to really sound the alarm that. this could be a terrible election. You. were seeing his approval rating fall. apart, and people were unhappy about the. war. They wanted Trump to get out of the. war. When they did polling of 2024 Trump.

voters who were defecting, what was the. thing that they could do to bring them. back? Ending the war was the top issue. The other thing we did was. we got inside these private video calls. that the Trump team was having in the. lead up to the election. What our. reporting showed, particularly in the. last two calls they had before the. election, was that Trump's top aides. were starting to get very, very nervous. about the prospect of a wipeout. They.

were talking about making funeral. arrangements. They were talking about. taking cyanide. So there was a lot of. that type of gallows humor. This is all to say that. the loss was not. unexpected. Obviously, historically. presidents have done poorly in midterm. elections. But also all of their polling was. showing that this could be a very bad. night for Republicans. Trump himself he. had been shown the this polling. It.

wasn't a surprise to him. He'd seen the. public polls. He'd seen the commentary, you know, watches not just Fox, but he. watches CNN and MSNBC now. So. it's not like Trump hadn't been exposed. to this information, but he's also. someone who lives by the power of. positive thinking. >> But in the middle of all this sort of. terrible prognostication, is Trump. giving any indication that he's doing. anything because he wants to try to turn. the election results around? >> No, he ended up doing a lot of rallies.

because essentially the entire Trump. political ecosystem is built around the. idea that. if there is a problem, then more Trump. is the answer. There was [music] even this press. conference that was essentially the. president's closing message right before. the election, literally the day before, although he would deny that that's what. it was, but [music] it was. He held this. event. >> Today I'm thrilled to announce the. official opening of the Lincoln Memorial. >> right in front of the reflecting pool. >> The pool is now better and more.

beautiful than it's ever been before. >> Which has been a source of enormous. derision and a sense of waste and of. hours spent on matters that don't matter. to the American public. >> Now we're giving serious. thought to changing the name. to the Trump. reflecting pool. >> And here was the president announcing. that it was reopening. >> I'm only kidding. >> And. it was like if you could have. done anything to underscore for voters.

that the president's focus was on things. that he cares about as opposed to what. the voters cared about, I don't know. what you would have done differently. >> And then [music]. pretty similarly the day after the. election. >> It'll be the most beautiful ballroom I. think anywhere in the world and they've. been trying to get it for 150 years. And. for the media. >> He brings the press corps to an event. for the ballroom that he has been. incredibly focused on. >> He'll be able to have dinners for as. many people as you want. We had King. Charles here and we could. We were very restricted.

>> And again, [music] this is another item. that his advisors have all known. privately. was problematic. [music]. Not just symbolically, that a lot of. people in Washington were very worried. about it, but that it was something that donors. were being leaned on to give toward, [music]. that it was something that the president. wanted to spend hours and hours of his. week on. [music] And that was his immediate. aftermath message as opposed to anything. else. >> And then we're doing the arc, yeah, the.

beautiful like the arc to triumph, but. better, more beautiful, actually much. more beautiful. And as you know, we're doing the. National Garden of American Heroes, which will be something beautiful. >> Right. Basically, everything that we saw. is not what you would expect to see from. a president who is either trying to turn. the Titanic around or react to the fact. that they have just hit the iceberg. >> It's definitely, Rachel, a president who. goes by the ethos that Jonathan and I.

have written about and that the. president actually put out on social. media a couple of weeks before the. election, which is these are going to be. fine. They always are. And he operates. in this world where things work out for. him one way or the other. >> So look, in public, you've seen Trump. almost in a disassociative mode, right? This is not someone who you've seen, right, we're down to business, here's. the plan. But in private, he's been very. angry, very angry about the results,

wondering where the money went. >> Meaning the money, all the money that. was spent to try to elect Republicans, he thinks it's like gone to waste? >> Exactly. Trump had all of this money in. a super pack, about $400 million ish. And he didn't. want to spend it. He sees it as quote. unquote my money. And his team had to. really work hard to persuade him to. spend it on Republicans. Eventually, they wore him down and he agreed to. spend it. And so now from Trump's point. of view, all of this money was wasted.

for a terrible result. And so he's. angry. He realizes he needs to make. changes as much as anything to interrupt. this terrible news coverage that he's. been getting since the election where. this is about a repudiation of Donald. Trump and the Trump administration and. moving on from Donald Trump. You're. seeing lots of chirons about a. post-Trump Republican party. Well, Trump. doesn't want a post-Trump Republican. party. As long as he's alive, it's the. Donald Trump show. So he is trying to.

reassert control, reassert command, and. everything that he's doing should be. seen through that lens. >> Well, just to that point, Maggie, you. have talked to us a lot about how much. Donald Trump cares about his legacy. And. that is that's what I'm kind of hearing. from Jonathan's answer, right? Like like. how much of what everything that you. have just described to us has to do with. Maggie, what you have explained to us is. at the core of what drives Donald Trump. and what he cares about. >> Yeah, what he cares about, Rachel, just. to be clear, is not the future of the. Republican Party, which is what Jonathan.

is pointing to. He cares very much about a personalist. view of this. Monuments that reflect. him, monuments to reflect that he was. here that are durable, that his name. will not be taken off of as he saw. happen after he won the 2016 campaign. and after his calamitous exit from his. first term in in early 2021. He cares about his personal financial. situation. He and his family have made. a massive amount of money during this.

term. Just, you know, $2.2 billion in. crypto alone for the president last. year. >> Staggering. >> Right. He cares about dominance. He. cares about not being ignored, as. Jonathan said. The focus of attention on. him is very important and so is the. perception of him as strong. But he's made no bones about the fact. that he considers it I think his word. was honor. And honor that Republicans. don't do as well when he's not on the. ballot. But that's the legacy he is concerned. about. >> In his mind, it's pretty clear that the.

goal is for him to be remembered. You. know, we've talked about this before, but when. Maggie and I saw him in March and he. handed us a sheet of paper that compared. his power to the great figures of. history in his mind, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, a lot of these figures are. known by just one name. And it became. very clear to Maggie and I that Donald. Trump's one of his biggest goals is for. Donald Trump or just Trump to be the.

defining historical figure of his. lifetime, of our lifetime, maybe of the. last 100 years. That's the goal. It's. not how do Republicans do in the 2032. elections? You know, nothing could be. further from Donald Trump's mind than. that. >> Right. To that point, Jonathan, the rest. of the Republican party has to actually. care about the future of the Republican. party, right? Even if the president does. not. And so I would imagine that a lot. of the responses that we're starting to. see from Republicans about what led to.

the midterm losses have to do with. goals and things that they want that are. certainly not on the president's mind. >> Yeah, and the challenge they've got for. all of them is he's still around. He's. not going anywhere. He's here for the. next two years and and, you know, as. long as he lives really, he's still. going to be a kingmaker in the party. He. still is the most popular figure in the. party with the base. People forget that, but it's just a fact. And so you're. going to have all of these Republicans.

who already do trying to map out a quote. unquote post Trump future, but the post. Trump era doesn't actually exist yet. And it gets even more complicated when. you're someone who is serving in the. Trump administration planning a. political future for yourself, JD Vance, the vice president being the most. significant there. He has to make a. decision, do I run for president in. 2028? And what does that look like. running for president in 2028? JD Vance. has.

one of the most difficult. tasks in political history. He has to. reassemble. a shattered coalition. People who are completely disgusted in. many cases by this administration. He. has to reassemble them while he's the. sitting vice president. Oh, and by the. way, good luck distancing yourself from. Donald Trump. That's not an option. >> Well, let's let's talk about that. distance that you mentioned, Jonathan, because I personally was very surprised. by this tweet JD Vance put out right.

after the midterm results, basically. blaming the war in Iran for the midterm. losses. And the reason why that felt. striking was because it felt like here. is a Trump loyalist. Here's somebody. still working for the president. putting more distance, more daylight in. between himself and a man who does not. seem to tolerate any kind of what he. considers to be disloyalty. And so I. just sort of wondered, what is their. relationship and what are we to make of. that? >> Well, it's it's a very fraught moment. We'll see how much more of that he can. get away with. I don't think Trump is.

completely upset by the notion of. acknowledging that the Iran war had an. effect politically or on gas prices. He. said as much himself, but he does want. his aides and advisors publicly to say. but Donald Trump was correct. He made. the correct decision to go to war. Trump. wants people to say that. That was. conspicuously absent from that social. media post. So we'll see how much more. of that is tolerable. >> So it's not a matter of the president. cannot fire the vice president, obviously. It's really what is on the. line here is whether or not JD Vance for.

2028 can get the president to stand. behind him. That's what he's risking. with these kinds of statements. >> Yeah, and and that's still again, we're. not in a post-Trump era. Trump is still. the president and his endorsement is. still the most decisive endorsement in. the party and the most important factor. for anyone who wants to be the nominee. in 2028. >> Yeah. I think this matters more. for the people who are looking at. careers in the Republican Party and. possibly running for president among. them a number of senators.

outside the White House than inside it. >> Okay, so the two of you have just told. us that it looks like. Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, they are. about to double down on what the base. might want. But we had Chuck Schumer, expected his Senate majority leader on. the show on Friday, and one of the. things that he said to us was that if. Trump keeps doing what he's doing, Democrats will easily win the White. House in 2028. And I just sort of wonder. if there's anything at this point that. helps us understand which side strategy.

is correct. >> Well, look, I mean, it's hard to look at. what Trump is doing right now and say, well, that makes a lot of sense. But I. will say, Rachel, that one of the. mistakes that both parties have made. for many, many cycles now is continuing. to say what. just happened in the last, you know, 72. hours, therefore portends XYZ going. forward. Democrats are not. particularly popular either [music]. nationally. They're just slightly more. popular than Republicans right now.

>> Right. >> Neither party has been popular for some. time. And [music] I think what the results of. these elections tell you is that there. are a group of voters who want to see. government work for them. [music]. That doesn't mean that they fell in love. with one party or the other. And. candidate quality does matter. So. who the nominees are will have a role. And what [music] Democrats have. accomplished in the next two years will. have a say, too. So I [music] don't. think we can say right now.

what any of this means for two years. from now. [music] It means that there's. a lot of voters who. >> Mhm. >> would like their lives to be better and. don't feel like either party [music] has. done that yet. >> [music]. >> Maggie, Jonathan, thank you both so. much. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Rachel. >> [music]. >> Do you think immigration hurt you in the. midterms? Do you think the crackdown. hurt you? >> it both helped and hurt. I think. >> On Sunday night, President Trump. recognized that his administration's.

crackdown on immigration led by Stephen. Miller has been too aggressive. >> When you go into a hotel and you have a. woman that's worked there as a, you. know, as a maid, as a cleaner, as a. this, as a that, as a waitress, a lot of. good things, great jobs. And all of a sudden. they're being taken out of the country. It's tough. It's a tough thing. But. there is. >> In an interview with 60 Minutes recorded. on the same day he promoted Miller, President Trump said he would like to. work with the incoming Democratic. Congress on an immigration reform that. offered status to undocumented migrants.

without a violent criminal record. >> You think the Democratic Party right now. [music] has people in it. who would be interested in this kind of. deal? >> I think so, yeah. People have already. called me. >> We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. [music]. The chipmaker NVIDIA said on Sunday that. it was opening an investigation into. Jensen Huang, [music].

its chief executive and co-founder, after he acknowledged to the company's. board that he had been intimate with a. business executive who US [music]. intelligence determined to be a Chinese. spy. Huang's relationship with the woman. became a security concern [music] after. surveillance revealed that she was. feeding information directly to Beijing. The revelation raised concerns in part. because [music] Huang is one of the most. powerful figures in AI. as well as an influential ally of. President Trump. Multiple sources told the New York Times. that Secretary of State Marco Rubio. [music].

had drafted a secret memo warning top. officials about the relationship last. spring. [music]. And. Israeli President Isaac Herzog. officially gave opposition leader Gadi. Eisenkot the green light to try to form. a coalition government. Eisenkot will now have six weeks [music]. to decide who amongst the fractious. group of political parties can come. together to oust incumbent [music] Prime. Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. If Eisenkot fails to form a coalition, [music] the president will pass the. baton to someone else, likely Netanyahu.

Today's episode [music] was produced by. Carlos Prieto, Michelle Bonja, and. Claire Tennis-Getter. It was edited by Maria Byrne, and. contains music [music] by Pat McCusker, Dan Powell, and Marian Lozano. It was engineered by Alyssa Moxley, and. our theme music is by Wonderly. [music].

That's it for the daily. [music] I'm. Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.