10 Shots: Federal Agents Kill Another Person in Minnesota

A warning that this episode contains. descriptions of violence and graphic. language. From The New York Times, I'm Rachel. Abrams. and this is The Daily. >> WHAT THE [ __ ] DID YOU JUST DO? WHAT THE [ __ ] DID YOU JUST DO? >> Outrage and protest in Minneapolis after. federal agents shoot and kill a man.

today. >> Border Patrol agents shot and killed a. man in Minneapolis on Saturday. The second fatal clash between federal. authorities and protesters in less than. a month. >> YOU MURDERER! How dare you? >> Eyewitness video shows once again. reckless, violent, and dangerous federal. agents taking the life of a Minnesotan. If it can happen here, it can happen in. your community, too. >> The shooting prompted a fresh wave of.

fury and condemnation across the. country. >> How many more Americans need to die or. get badly hurt for this operation to. end? >> And it horrified residents in the city. that has been revolting against the. federal government crackdown on. immigration. >> This individual who came with weapons. and ammunition to stop a law enforcement. operation of federal law enforcement. officers committed an act of domestic. terrorism. That's the facts. >> No one who wants to be peaceful shows up. at a protest with a firearm that is.

loaded with two full magazines. That is. not a peaceful protest and you do not. get to touch law enforcement. >> Federal officials alleged that the. protester was the aggressor and that the. agents acted in self-defense. >> Oh, they just shot somebody. Go, go. >> But videos of the shooting directly. contradict that claim. Today, we talked to our colleagues Evan Lum and. [music] Ernesto Londoño about how the. shooting unfolded and what may come.

next. >> [music]. >> It's Monday, January [music] 26th. Devin, welcome to The Daily. >> Thanks for having me. >> So Devin, by now I think a lot of people. have seen this really graphic footage of. a man named Alex Preddy getting shot by. federal agents in Minnesota. The Department of Homeland Security.

claims that Preddy was approaching these. agents with a handgun that he was intent. on committing what they called, quote, a. massacre. You are a member of our visual. investigations team, which means that. you have been spending a lot of time. analyzing footage from this shooting, from the scene. So, what do you make of. the government's claims? >> We've been analyzing footage from. various different angles over the past. day and a half trying to better. understand what took place before, during, and after the shooting.

>> Mhm. >> You know, there is contention over what. happened between the federal government. and the state government. And we're. doing our best to resolve that. contention by walking through the visual. evidence as clearly. and as in depth as we possibly can. The one thing that's blatantly clear in. our analysis that contrasts with the. narrative that the administration put. out there in the immediate aftermath of. the shooting. is that Preddy was not holding a gun. when he began interacting with the.

federal agents or throughout the. entirety of their interaction. Instead, he's holding a cell phone. >> And can you just set the scene, Devin, at the beginning of the footage that. you've been analyzing, what do we see? What's going on? >> The footage begins with two protesters. interacting with the federal agent on a. street in Minneapolis in front of a. donut shop. We can see that Pretty is walking into. the street with his outstretched arm. holding his cell phone recording the. interaction.

He appears to be an observer in this. moment. He's standing. you know, further away from where that. interaction is taking place. >> Mhm. >> and appears to be directing traffic with. his free hand. >> And how do things escalate from there? >> The agent who is interacting with the. two protesters standing in the street. begins to push the protesters in the. direction of Mr. Pretty. And eventually. they make their way towards where he's. standing. So, before I get into the details, I. just want to say that these next moments.

happen very quickly. From the time that things started to. escalate until the final shot is fired, just over 40 seconds elapsed. >> Wow. >> Once they get there, the agent pushes. one of the protesters to the ground. And Alex Pretty steps in between the. agent and the woman who has just been. pushed to the ground. The agent begins firing pepper spray at. him. In that moment, we can see that he's. still holding his cell phone.

And his other hand is still free. >> Mhm. >> Then Alex Pretty turns around to. apparently try to help the woman who's. been pushed to the ground. up to her feet. And the agent continues firing pepper. spray. at both of them. Several agents appear behind. Mr. Pretty and begin pulling him in. order to get him down to the ground. Once he's down on the ground, several. other agents are holding him down.

They're grabbing at his legs. >> Mhm. >> They're pushing him in his back. And they appear to be striking him. repetitively. >> Mhm. >> Another agent walks towards the scrum. and reaches toward Alex Pretty with open. hands. It's unclear at that moment why he's. grabbing at him. But a few seconds later. we hear someone saying he's got a gun.

Over and over again. They say it. repetitively. >> Mhm. Meaning that they might not have. realized that he had a gun until that. moment when he's on the ground. >> Exactly. And. again, looking back at the footage from. any point of the interaction up until. now. there is no visual giveaway that would. indicate that agents knew that he was. armed. >> So, what happens next? How does the. scene unfold from there once he's. restrained and on the ground? >> The agent who reached into the scrum.

with open hands grabs a firearm from. Alex Pretty's waist. Then, about 1 second after Pretty's gun. has been removed, another agent fires. the first shot. >> So, he can see the other agent taking. the gun out of the holster. >> We're not exactly sure what he's seeing. at this point because it's a very. split-second. But in the video, it appears he has a. clear vantage point of the disarming as. it's happening. >> So, at this point, just to be clear, one agent has removed the gun, has.

backed away from Alex Pretty, and that's. when we hear the first shot that was. fired. >> Yes. The gun that was apparently removed from. Alex Pretty's hip is away from the pile. before the first shot is fired. And after that first shot is fired, Pretty appears to get up onto his knees. And his hands, which were bunched up. near his head, move down towards his. sides. The agent fires three more times, and. [music] Pretty begins to fall to the.

ground. He reaches down with his left hand while. falling. Apparently to brace himself. And there does not appear to be weapons. in either of his hands. Then the agent who initially pepper. sprayed Pretty joins in. And the two of them fire six more shots. at Pretty's disarmed body, which is at this point laying motionless. on the ground. In total, they appear to fire 10 shots.

in 5 seconds. We can hear in the later footage that as. agents are searching Alex Pretty's body. after he's already been shot, one agent yells, "Where's the gun? Where's the gun?". So, clearly not all of the agents know.

that Alex Pretty had already been. disarmed. >> You know, given the fact that the first. shot was fired only about a second after. Pretty's gun was removed, >> Mhm. >> even though the agent who shot Alex. Pretty might have been able to see that. the gun had been unholstered, it all is. happening so fast that you can't know. for sure whether he definitely knew that. when he was firing. >> Well, sure. It's it's difficult to know. what the agent who fired saw or knew.

when he fired other than that there was. a gun present. >> Mhm. >> But what we do know is that Alex Pretty. was very clearly subdued on the ground. He was being held down and his arms were. by his head. >> Mhm. >> And again, the agent was standing behind. Pretty. He was aiming at his back. So, he presented no clear threat to the. agents at that point. But I want to stress that the statement. that is being made by the Department of. Homeland Security is that Pretty. approached an agent with a gun.

>> Right. >> It's true. He was armed with a gun, but. the videos show he was not holding it in. his hand throughout the entire. interaction with the agents. >> Mhm. >> The Department of Homeland Security also. said the agent fired out of concern for. the agent's safety. So, if we're looking. at the footage and we're assessing. whether or not there's a concern for. safety, we can see that Freddy is on the ground. He's being subdued. And even if there's a gun on his hip at.

one point, he can't reach it. So, the. response to shoot him, to pull out a. firearm, and and shoot him rather than. taking a beat to understand whether. another agent, one of your colleagues, has. disarmed the person you're about to. shoot. It just doesn't comport with what the. Department of Homeland Security is. saying. >> You know, we talked to our colleague. Charles Homans on the show about a week. ago. He described at that point what felt. almost like a lull, in the sense that it. had been a few days since a federal.

agent had shot Renee Good. Obviously, people had taken to the streets, were. outraged, but it felt also like ICE was. operating a little bit less visibly, and. I think it was kind of an open question. at that time whether things would. escalate or would de-escalate. And it feels really notable that here we. are just a few days later. reacting to another fatal shooting. >> Yes. This is the second shooting in less. than a month that's been carried out by. federal agents in Minneapolis,

where the footage that we've analyzed. has. conflicted with statements that have. been made by the Department of Homeland. Security about what took place. >> [music]. >> Tensions are already high online around. the country and on the ground in. Minneapolis, and this is sure to inflame them. further. [music]. >> [music]. >> Devon Lom, thank you so much.

>> Thanks for having me. >> [music]. [music]. >> We'll be right back. >> [music]. >> Ernesto, hi. >> Hi, Rachel.

>> I wonder, Ernesto, could you just tell. us what it's been like on the ground in. the hours since Alex ready was shot? >> I think this is a city where people are. shell-shocked. Ever since this. immigration crackdown began late last. month, there's been sort of a sense that things. are escalating in a way that feels. unsustainable. And Saturday morning, a second. individual was killed by federal agents. In both cases, these were American. citizens. who had decided to take to the streets.

to monitor and to challenge the work of. immigration agents. And in both cases, they were gunned down. And I think people both in local. government, but just residents, have been trying desperately to find an. off-ramp from a situation they think is. really. dangerous. >> Can you talk about what we know about. Alex ready as of now? >> Yes, we know that he was a nurse at the. VA locally.

We are told that he cared deeply for his. patients, and that he was a beloved member of his. community. We know that he carried a weapon, and. that he was allowed to be a gun owner, and that he was armed when this. occurred. We know he had no criminal record, and. you know, he was a federal employee. So, I don't think we've seen any evidence to. suggest that he was a violent person,

but we're only, you know, about 24 hours. into this, so I think there's a lot we. will. learn in the hours and days ahead. >> What do we know about what Border Patrol. was doing at the scene at that moment? Do we know anything about who they were. trying to apprehend, for instance? >> So, what we heard is that the Border. Patrol agents were trying to find a. specific guy, an immigrant from Ecuador,

that they portrayed as somebody with a. very significant criminal history, somebody who was violent. And what the Trump administration is. saying is any effort of people impeding. the work of these agents is. unconscionable because they're just here. to impose order and to keep people and. neighborhoods safe. However, just hours after the shooting, you had the Minnesota Department of. Corrections, which runs the prison. system, come out and say, "Hey, we looked into.

this matter. We looked into court. records. We can't find evidence that. this individual has anything beyond some. misdemeanor traffic citations.". So, you know, essentially the state is. pouring cold water on. the genesis of the operation that led to. this killing. >> If the shooting had been done by local. authorities, you could imagine and. predict sort of what would happen next. just in terms of an investigation into. the use of force. The shooting obviously happened by a. Border Patrol agent, so I wonder how.

would it normally work in the aftermath. of this kind of a thing? What would you. normally expect? And what do we know. about what is happening now? >> So, the way this has been handled in the. past, for instance, when there was a US. Marshal who used deadly force here a few. years ago, is. the federal government, the Department of Justice and its Office. of Civil Rights partners quickly with. the state agency that has the most. expertise in use of force cases and they. collect and review evidence jointly.

trying to make sense of whether the. officer when he or she used deadly force. had a credible fear that that was the. only means to remain safe in the face of. a dire threat to the agent or to others. around them. >> Mhm. >> These videos that have emerged to date, you know, while really providing us. considerable amount of insight into what. happened in that moment. are only part of the story. And usually. when this kind of investigation is.

conducted, you try to get more video of. what was happening, you know, minutes. before this. You try to get witness. accounts of what was being said, you. know, as part of this exchange. So, typically it takes weeks if not months. for investigators to assemble a complete. and conclusive picture that allows them. to decide whether or not a prosecution. is warranted. >> Mhm. >> What you saw in the immediate aftermath. of the initial shooting early this. month, the shooting of Renee Good, is.

that top officials in the Trump. administration said that the state. agency was being cut off of the. investigation. This was highly anomalous for these kind. of shootings and it immediately created. a concern among local officials. that there was going to be a cover-up, that we weren't going to get a proper. and thorough investigation. >> Mhm. >> So, what the local prosecutor in. Hennepin County, which includes. Minneapolis, did was in the absence of.

sort of the ability of gathering. first-hand evidence, forensic evidence, and witness testimony from the kind of. people that would normally be involved. in this kind of an investigation. she created an online portal and asked. people out in the community to submit. videos and any other evidence that might. help her office establish whether or not. a crime occurred and whether or not. there's enough evidence to bring charges. against the agents.

>> It sounds extremely unusual. >> To call this unusual would be the. understatement of the decade. And fast. forward a couple of weeks when we have. this second fatal shooting on Saturday. at the outset. local and state officials who ran to the. scene to try to preserve and examine. evidence were physically blocked from. getting there. And as of this moment, they don't even know the identity of the.

federal agents who opened fire. So, something as basic as knowing who it is. you're investigating. is going to make any prosecution or any. investigation. that people regard as credible and. satisfying really, really hard. >> And in the meantime, of course, you. already have federal officials coming. out and making conclusions as though an. investigation has already been. conducted. You have Cash Patel and you. have Kristi Noem saying this guy was a. menace, he had a gun, he was threatening.

agents. So, while an investigation is. still pending, you already have federal. officials, much like in the aftermath of. Renee Good, coming out and basically. stating what happened as if we know for. certain. >> Absolutely. And you know, usually. there's an appeal for calm and patience. in the wake of these kind of incidents. which are so traumatic for communities. What we've seen in the case is the. opposite. We've seen federal officials. use really incendiary and jarring. language to describe.

the conduct of people who have been. observing, documenting, and challenging. the work of immigration agents. They've. characterized some of these people as. domestic terrorists. And the Department of Justice has. launched an investigation into the. Governor Tim Walz, the Mayor of. Minneapolis Jacob Frey, the Mayor of St. Paul who just got inaugurated a few days. ago, the Attorney General and the top. prosecutor in Minneapolis. And the.

contention is that all these Democratic. elected officials have been speaking in. ways that the federal government deems. dangerous for their immigration. enforcement operation because they've. been resisting it and criticizing it and. challenging it. >> Is there any evidence that local law. enforcement is in fact obstructing or. interfering with federal officials in. their deportation efforts? >> No. It's important to point out that the. city of Minneapolis and the city of St.

Paul, they have chosen not to cooperate. with civil immigration enforcement, meaning police officers in these cities. do not ask residents about their. immigration status. However, when it comes to people who are in jails. and prisons, the state says that they cooperate. routinely in facilitating a seamless and. practical handover of individuals who.

are subject to deportation, who are. about to be released either from state. prisons cuz they've completed their. sentence or from jails. So, local. officials say the sense that Minnesota. is this kind of radical. sanctuary state where people who are. here legally are essentially shielded by. the local government is blatantly false. >> Can you walk us through how state. officials are responding, people like. Tim Walz, Mayor Jacob Frey, Senator Amy. Klobuchar? What are they saying and and.

how has any of that rhetoric shifted. since the first shooting? >> They are suing the administration and. trying to see if a judge orders the. administration to put an end to the. immigration crackdown. And Saturday's. shooting led Governor Walz to deploy the. National Guard because I think he and. people in his administration feel that. this city could once again blow up the. way we saw in the wake of George Floyd's.

killing in 2020. >> So I want to talk about the broader. political response for a moment. Are. there other options that elected. officials both in Minnesota and beyond. are considering right now? >> Federal lawmakers from Minnesota appear. to be in lockstep thinking that maybe. the only way to shut this down or to use. one of the few levers of power they have. over the Trump administration is the. threat of withholding funding for the.

Department of Homeland Security. The question though, you know, considering the fact that Republicans. are in control of both chambers in. Capitol Hill is whether you could have. enough Republicans peel off and agree. with Democrats. And while I think we're. starting to see glimmers of Republicans. signaling discomfort, it's far from. clear whether you'd have enough votes. and enough opposition to really make a. difference. >> Polls in this country show that most.

people are supportive of the Trump. administration's stated goals of dealing. with immigration by closing the border, enforcing deportations of people who are. here illegally, but a majority of. Americans think that ICE has gone too. far in its tactics. And in recent weeks. since the killing of Renee Good, you. have started to see and hear people who. have traditionally been supportive of. the administration really question these. policies. You had Joe Rogan basically. compare ICE to the Gestapo. You had. Maria Bartiromo pushing Kash Patel on.

television about what kind of threat. Alex Pretty could have possibly posed. given the fact that he was holding a. camera and not a gun. And so, while it's. incredibly hard to speculate, of course, about what comes next, I do wonder if. the second killing. feels like in any way a tipping point to. you right now. >> I think the videos in this case are. singularly horrifying. I also think, just based on the kind of emails that. have been streaming into my inbox over.

the past 24 hours, that we remain a. deeply divided country on the question. of immigration and on the merits of a. really draconian response to the problem. of illegal immigration. There are people for whom these actions. are not justified, but welcome. There are many people who have written. to me to say, "These people in. Minneapolis who got gunned down had it. coming. They shouldn't have been. interfering with the work of immigration.

agents, and let this be a lesson to. other people who would want to challenge. what they're doing.". >> Right. >> I think one of the things that I just. really interesting about the two. individuals whose lives were lost is, on. some level, they're like deeply. sympathetic figures. This woman was a. mother of three and a poet. >> Mhm. >> And the second victim was a nurse who. worked and took care of veterans. So, it feels hard, I think, for the.

average American to take this assertion. that these two people who were gunned. down in broad daylight fit the. description of a domestic terrorist. >> [music]. >> So, I think. the key question is what happens to the. segment of the electorate that is more. moderate on these issues, that is more. persuadable, and for whom these really.

searing images and videos. are going to push [music] them into the. camp of thinking this has gone too far, and that on some level the. administration needs to be reined in. >> Ernesto, thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> [music]. [music].

[music]. >> We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. A dangerous winter storm pummeled much. [music] of the eastern United States on. Sunday, shattering temperature records, knocking out power to more than a. million homes and businesses, and. wreaking havoc on daily life [music]. from Mississippi to Massachusetts.

Five people were found dead in New York. City over the weekend, and officials. were investigating whether they died. because of [music] the cold. One person died of exposure in Austin, Texas, while the Louisiana Department of. Health said two men had died of [music]. hypothermia. And. Representative Maxwell Alejandro Frost, Democrat [music] of Florida, was hit in. the face by a man who told the lawmaker. that he would [music] be deported at the. Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah over the weekend.

>> [music]. >> The police said they responded to. reports of an assault at the High West. Saloon, a whiskey distillery and bar. where a private party was [music] being. held. The attacker, quote, "told me that Trump. was going to deport me before [music] he. punched me in the face," said Mr. Frost, whose family moved from Cuba to Florida. in the early 1960s, in a social [music]. media post. Today's episode was produced by Diana. Winn and Nina Feldman. It was edited by Lizo Balin and Lisa.

Chow. [music]. Contains music by Pat McCusker, Rowan. Nisto, Dan Powell, and Diane Wong. And was engineered [music] by Chris. Wood. >> [music]. >> That's it for The Daily. I'm Rachel. Abrams. See you tomorrow.