Nvidia CEO’s ‘Game of Thrones-esque’ scandals draws new scrutiny on Lutnick

WITH THAT, LET'S ENTER THE GROUP David k, host of Bloomberg's This Weekend. and the Big Pig Podcast. Lizzie O'Leary, host of What Next? TBD, slate show about technology, power, and the future. Reid Galen, president of Join the ON. THE UNION .US, FOUNDER OF THE CIVIC FORUM, AND THE ONE. AND ONLY, CARA SWISHER, HOST. OF THE PODCAST, ON WITH CARA SWISHER. AND PIVOT AND NEW YORK MAGAZINE EDITOR AT LARGE. OKAY, I MEAN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN.

DONALD TRUMP IN THE LAST 24, FIRST OF ALL, WE LEARNED THIS WEEK, TRUMP SAID TO. DONALD TRUMP SAID I SPOKE TO HIM, IT'S ABOUT HIS FAMILY, WHETHER OR NOT, JENSEN WONG AND HIS FAMILY, WE CAN PUT ALL THE WAY OVER. HERE, EVEN DONALD TRUMP SAYING WE DON'T. ACTUALLY KNOW IF SHE WAS A SPY, WE ARE NOW SEEING REPORTING AFTER REPORTING, THAT MARCO RUBIO'S OFFICE SAID THREE. DIFFERENT AGENCIES ARE CONCERNED. ABOUT THIS AND THAT WAS IGNORED BY THE.

WHITE HOUSE BY THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT, BUT EVEN IF WE TOOK TRUMP AT HIS WORD. AND SAID MAYBE THIS WOMAN IS NOT A CHINESE SPY, JENSON WONG IS THE CEO. OF THE SECOND MOST POWERFUL COMPANY IN THE WORLD, THE LEADER IN THE A .I. REVOLUTION AND HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. WITH A CUSTOMER WHO BOUGHT BILLIONS OF. DOLLARS WORTH OF HIGH-VALUE CHIPS, THAT CUSTOMER SHE RAN MEGA SPEED WHICH. WAS FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES A SHELL. COMPANY THAT ILLEGALLY RAN MEGA SPEED. WHICH IS A SHELL COMPANY THAT HE SMUGGLED. THOSE CHIPS INTO CHINA SO AT THE VERY. LEAST YOU COULD LOOK AT JENSEN WONG AND.

SAY YOU COULD BE PART. OF A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY WHICH IS VIOLATING U .S. EXPORT CONTROLS YET WE HAVE GOT A. COMMERCE DEPARTMENT WHO IS SAYING THIS. IS MY HOMEBOY TRUMP SAYING YOU SHOULD HAVE. SUCKED IT OUT ON THINKING ABOUT HIS WIFE. YEAH. WELL, WHAT SHALL I SAY TO. THEM. YOU WIN, YES. CONGRATULATIONS. CLEARLY I HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS. CLEARLY I be on Scott Besant seem to. have taken the allegations seriously.

enough to have written a report. And actually right now, Scott Besant went on CNBC. to say this, to talk about it pretty directly, which is, you know, he's always had a rivalry with, with Lutnik. But in this case, Lutnik seems to have been. running. this operation like pals, pals with the, with the. corporations. Now that's not unusual for some commerce officials. to be. close to business people. But this This seems like Jensen. Wang was running what should happen. at the Commerce Department when. it came to chips and he was making. that argument about China being.

able to sell into China because. it was good for his business. But that's the thing, right? It's not just, well, they allowed this to happen. on many of the deals that we saw happen. in the last two years, Howard Lutnick's firm Cantor. Fitzgerald were the arrangers. A year ago, the U .S. government said, sure you want to sell. these chips into China? We're going to take a stake of it and we know that. Donald. Trump himself THE ECONOMY HAS. BEEN A HUGE INVESTOR IN NVIDIA. STOCK AND TRUMP WHO EQUATES THE MARKET. WITH THE ECONOMY HAS BEEN RIDING. THIS AI SUPER HIGHWAY SAYING NOBODY OUT THERE. IS poor, affordability is a non-issue.

Just look at your 401k. It's not just that they ignored it, they're benefiting from all of this. They're benefiting from it and I think. if you look back on the last couple of years, the way that Jensen Huang was able to. insert himself into President Trump's group. of advisors was incredible. I mean, there were weeks in which he was. in Washington, I think twice, three times over a period of seven days. So he had the ear of the president. I think there was this marked change. between the way. that the previous administration approached. this issue of chip exports. and the way that this one has, Gina Raimondo, Nick Burns, the ambassador to China. These were folks who were adamantly.

against getting this technology from the U .S. to China. So Jensen Huang comes in. We can talk about all the motivations. for him making the alternative case here. for him making the alternative case here. Certainly one was economics, he wanted to make more money. and sell these chips to China, but he was successful in doing that. You bring up Howard Lutnik's connections, there is this fog surrounding all. of this and we hear from each of. these administration officials who. had connections to business beforehand, oh they're not in charge. of their businesses anymore. Howard Lutnik handed the reins. over to his sons but it belies. credibility that's the case and so there is a.

long-standing. business connection that they've had. and continue to have here in office. THE PROBLEM IS THE GIANT CORRUPTION FOG THAT. HANGS OVER ALL OF IT. THE GIANT CORRUPTION FOG AND. ALSO THE VULNERABILITY. I MEAN, AGAIN, BELIES CREDULITY TO THINK. THAT SOMEONE WITH THIS DEGREE OF. POWER WOULDN'T SAY LIKE, OH, she really likes, right? She likes leather jackets. She really likes leather. jackets.

I can't believe none of you are wearing it. I know. I can't do it. I'm wearing leather pants. I can't do it. I can't Let me be clear, I'm reclaiming leather. jackets. for lesbians because straight men have to stop. Okay, was there ever a period. of time when lesbians weren't wearing leather No, and wear them well in comparison. That's another issue. Fine, fine. Okay, well then we can discuss maybe. we shouldn't have CEOs who are so. emotionally vulnerable. Maybe we shouldn't have CEOs that are.

this powerful but gosh darn it, you know, just CAN'T HANDLE COMPLICATED LIVES. I MEAN, LOOK, I DON'T KNOW, CAN I SAY THIS? IT'S LIKE ONE RUNG UP FROM BEING. LIKE THE STRIPPER IS REALLY INTO ME. WE SAID IT YESTERDAY. YOU CAN DEFINITELY SAY IT. HERE. BUT THE OTHER THING THAT IS HAPPENING. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS TIMELINE. THAT IS JUST FASCINATING WHERE YOU'RE LIKE, WAIT, SORRY. WHO TOLD THE PRESIDENT WHEN AND. THEN THEY STOP IN ALASKA TO YOU HAVE TO PICK. UP JENSEN HONG ON THE WAY TO CHINA. MARCO RUBIO, IF YOU BELIEVE HIM AND.

SCOTT BESSENT, IF YOU BELIEVE HIM, ARE KIND OF WAVING THEIR. HANDS AROUND. YOU HAVE THESE LIKE I THINK IT'S LIKE MULTIPLE. GAME OF THRONES-ESQUE PLOTS HAPPENING WHERE. EVERYONE IS TRYING TO PLAY SOMETHING TO. THEIR ADVANTAGE BUT THE PEOPLE. WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SAYING WAIT, THERE ACTUALLY IS I THINK THIS IS AN EXPORT. POLICY AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE. ABIDING BY IT SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN. OVERRULED AT LEAST IN THE SHORT. TERM BY THE PRESIDENT AND BY. THE COMMERCE SECRETARY. WELL, I WOULD SAY A COUPLE THINGS ON THE AIR FORCE ONE. FLIGHT,

LIKE, THEY WOULD HAVE WANTED TO PUT. HUANG IN LIKE A HUMAN-SIZE YONDER POUCH, RIGHT? BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WHAT HIS PHONE. IS TRANSMITTING AND RECEIVING AND. EVERYTHING ELSE. I THINK THE OTHER PART ON THE, LIKE, LET'S BRING IT BACK TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WHAT ARE WE BEING TOLD? THE UNITED STATES MUST WIN THE. AI RACE AGAINST CHINA. WE MUST WIN. WE MUST WIN. NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED TO US as the people, like what the racetrack is, where the finish line is, and why are we selling the. same. race car to our opponents that we're supposed to be. meeting?

Well, the argument is that if we don't sell it to them, they will develop their own and they should essentially. use our technology. So we dominate the way they have now dominated. in electric cars. They've sort of taken that. But haven't they been stealing everything. for 40 years? It's a complicated. They're going to make their own eventually. So are a lot of other people. NVIDIA is not gonna be in this situation forever. but one. of the issues is the amount of influence this guy had. and shifted the you know away. from all the leather jackets. and all the girlfriends and how stupid this is like.

from a man well IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU. AND REALLY NOT, LIKE, IS THIS SURPRISING TO. ANYBODY? THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR IS LIKE IT HAPPENS EVERY. THINK ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT A .I. IS AND THINK ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IMPORTANT A .I. IS TO THE FUTURE. HOW WE DO NEED THESE business leaders to work. with our government. And we're looking at not just Jensen Wong, we're looking at this whole cast. of characters who have behaved. like wholly unserious people. for the last several years. Well, it's more than serious as they can walk. into the White House. Every Tuesday they were having, you You know, often people would say,

oh, they're at the White House. I'm like, they're always at the White House. and nobody else is. And Jensen was in the center of that group. And he had not been politically active. before that until recently, which was really interesting. But what happened is he had a point of view, which was shared by David Sachs, who was the AI czar, whatever, and Howard Lutnick, that we should be selling into China. And this is a good thing. And at the same time talking about the threat. from China, you know, the idea they all talk. about this and I think the issue is he got. his point of view through and then.

when there were problems suddenly there was. a 25 million dollar donation to the ballroom. like that's the it's the sort. of the coin operated presidency problem here. that we. I was trusting him, but this guy was vulnerable. to a honeypot. and they were warned about it. You know what I mean? Think about all of the. control he has.

Any James Bond movie this happens, right? Greek tragedy. You know, kind of thing, but which is what Lloyd. Blankvein said. It's sort of a Greek tragedy. and he's not indispensable. But the idea of like the influence. these people have and the ability just. to change because they talk to Trump last. And that's kind of the problem, these policies not being made. And then Trump tends to believe. not the intelligence people, but whoever he talked to last, which is Jensen Huang. And that's where the that the problem is,

is he's not getting good information. And he doesn't want good information. Let's not pretend that he's not accepting it. He wants information that serves his book. Correct. And that's exactly what NVIDIA has done. until now. But what's interesting is, despite the fact that the. White House. wanted to... Let's be clear. The board wanted to protect Jensen Wong. until it was absolutely impossible. The board wanted to protect him. And now where do they go from here? Like how do they even have any good corporate. governance left?

They have to have complete egg on their face. I think that this is a huge part. of the story that's kind of obfuscated. by the leather jackets and the affairs, and that is how woeful the corporate. governance was at NVIDIA for so long. And I think it's a story of Silicon Valley. Yes, I was going to say. Wasn't that a Silicon Valley bank problem too? No risk management? Incredibly weak board. And you said, sorry, they wanted to back him. until the second affair came to light. and then you had the general counsel going. over to Jensen Huang's house. and I was thinking again. about when he talked with Ezra Klein. and couldn't remember his address. and looking at that kind of situation. Somebody else could. He's down there on his knees praying.

with Henry Kissinger for guidance. But that's kind of like where you see things. going from here. Look, they've named this interim CEO woman. who's been at the company for 13 years. She's there on an interim basis. We'll see who they pick to get the job. permanently. But they've announced a chairman. for the first time. I mean, that's a wild thing to say. that a company that is the second. largest most important in the world didn't have a. chairman. or traditional governance structure. for as long as it did because. of the deference that was paid to Jensen. That takes you right back to concentration. of power and the huge risks around it. That even touches on last week's election.

that the American people said. we do not live in an autocracy. We have to have three separate. but equal branches of government. Take that to the tech universe of how. in the world did this person. about us that much power? He didn't have controlling shares. which is interesting compared to. a Mark Zuckerberg or others who. if this was Mark Zuckerberg, he couldn't be displaced. He would have to fire himself which is. interesting. He had a very small amount of stock which was. also interesting and he had 60 direct reports. Which is crazy. Which is so well, except that's the way they. like it.

It means they run everything. and everybody is beholden to them. It's sort of this idea but he didn't want a strong. board. and that board was particularly meh. Some of the companies have added. some good people to them but largely. these are just monarchies. Yes, and when you make the members. of that board astronomically wealthy. Correct. They're just saying thank you sir may. I have another. Some of them made $80 million by being. on that board. How do you not say? Of course Tesla's the. famous board. Okay, $80 million in a job that takes how many. hours a month?

20? It's good work if you can. get it. Well, it suddenly got kind of hard.