Lutnick agrees to TESTIFY to Congress amid Nvidia CEO affair fallout

help. of our leadoff panel. MSNOW, Washington Bureau Chief Sudeep. Reddy is here. Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, Senior Associate Dean for. are leadership studies at the Yale School of. Management, Dan Nathan, co-founder of Risk Reversal. and a CNBC Fast Money contributor. and Brian Schwartz, White House economic policy reporter. for The Wall Street Journal. Brian, you're the reporter on this beat. Give us the latest about LUTNIK'S POSITION. AND WHETHER OR NOT THE KNIVES ARE OUT FOR HIM. I MEAN, JUST MINUTES AGO, SCOTT BESSENT WAS ON OUR.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WASN'T. WE TOLD THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT ABOUT IT. THAT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE SOMEBODY. THROWING SOMEBODY ELSE UNDER A BUS. I THINK HOWARD LUTNIK COULD BE YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, STEPHANIE. AND I THINK HOWARD LUTNIK COULD. BE IN DEEP TROUBLE HERE FOR WHOLE LINEAR REASONS, BUT ONE OF THEM THAT STOOD OUT TO ME IN. OUR REPORTING IS THE DRUMBEAT AGAINST. HIM WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION. YOU MENTIONED TREASURY SECRETARY. SCOTT BESSEN IN THAT INTERVIEW, BUT BESSEN ALSO NOTED THAT THERE. WERE THREE THERE WERE THREE OTHER AGENCIES.

WHO WERE TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR. MEGA SPEED TO BE PUT ON THE ENTITY BLACKLIST. AND THE AGENCY THAT STOOD IN THE WAY. LUTNICK IS GOING TO HAVE A LOT. OF QUESTIONS TO ANSWER TO. CONGRESS AND TO THE PUBLIC THAT. HE STILL HAS NOT ANSWERED. AS I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT. AS TO WHY HE SEEMINGLY SLOW WALKED. PUTTING THAT COMPANY ON THE BLACKLIST WHEN IT. WAS VERY CLEAR FOR MANY IN THE ADMINISTRATION. THAT THEY BELIEVE AND THE PRESIDENT BELIEVED. IT HAD TO HAPPEN AND HAD TO HAPPEN FAST.

AS YOU NOTED, MEGA SPEED BASICALLY ALLOWED. NVIDIA CHIPS TO BE SOLD TO CHINA, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE INVESTIGATIONS. ON THE FEDERAL SIDE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT. SO THERE'S A LOT OF TAKE QUESTIONS AS TO WHY. LUTNICK DID NOT MOVE TO DO THAT. EVEN AFTER THE PRESIDENT, TRUMP SECRETARY SCOTT. BESSEN, ACCORDING TO BESSEN THIS MORNING. THREE OTHER AGENCIES. WERE ADVOCATING FOR SUCH A MOVE. AND MEGA SPEED IS THE COMPANY. THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY RUN BY ALICE WONG, Jensen WONG'S PARAMOR WHO IS BELIEVED TO BE. A CHINESE SPY. DAN, WAY IN YOU CAN TAKE YOUR PICK,

BUT I WOULD SAY LET'S START WITH. LUTNIK AND HIS EXPOSURE HERE. RIGHT. WHEN YOU HAVE BESSEN COMING ON, CMBC KIND OF THROWING HIM UNDER THE BUS. IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS? WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS SORT OF. TRUMP WORLD FOR A VERY LONG TIME. AND WE KNOW HOW HE KIND OF LIKES. TO CUT LOOSE ON FOLKS THAT ARE. PROBABLY EASY ENOUGH TO DO THAT. YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK OF THE. STORY AND THE WAY IT'S The fact. that we are starting your show with it right now, there are massive geopolitical implications. Two days in a row. Two days in a row we're leading with this story.

There's domestic implications, right? There's economic implications. If this company, you know, NVIDIA were to slow THEY. ARE GOING TO. SLOW DOWN AS FAR AS THEIR SALES. AND THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM. THEN THERE ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUES ABOUT THE MARKETS. WE ALL OWN THIS STOCK. IF YOU HAVE A 401K, IF YOU INVIDIA IS THE. LARGEST HOLDING. IN THE S &P 500. THE STOCKS IN AND AROUND IT MAKE UP A THIRD. OF THE WEIGHT OF THE S &P 500. SO IF THIS THING THAT'S.

THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR THE MARKETS BUT ALSO A LOT OF. THAT. GROWTH HAS FED ITS WAY INTO GDP. GROWTH WHICH HAS BEEN POWERING. THE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS WE HAVE. THAT'S WHY IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM FOR TRUMP. TRUMP HAS SPENT THE LAST TWO YEARS, JEFFREY, EQUATING THE MARKET WITH THE. THE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS WE HAVE TO BE LIKE, NO, THE MARKET, THE MARKET. AND TO DAN'S POINT, IF YOU'VE GOT A 401K, YOU OWN NVIDIA. THEY DID NOT WANT TO SEE JENSEN WONG OUT. OF THIS seat. You've got your latest piece sort. of breaking down how vulnerable Lutnik.

is right now. Explain. Wow. You and Dan really efficiently covered an. awful lot of the headlines. We'll see if I can add some value there. But you're right. First that the the centrality of NVIDIA. in driving Trump's scorecard, which is the economy, is how he keeps score. Other people it's legacy, legislative wins, this or that. For him it's the short-term markets. This is a company that is invested. in 240 other companies driving the economy. as Dan points out. Just so our audience understands,

NVIDIA lends companies money. so they can use that money to buy NVIDIA chips. That's the circular financing. Circular. Over $100 billion of that in there. Companies like Anthropic, companies like SpaceX and. things. OpenAI, these are pretty significant companies. That's only the start. He's also got $110 billion that. he's committed to openAI to fund. their data center stuff, the build out. But on top of that, a complex thing, he got seven investment banks to put. in another $600 billion from BlackRock to.

Goldman Sachs to put in $600 billion to. tokenize investments like mortgage-backed. securities to get, you know, a trillion dollars here tied up. And all that is, how does that tie in with. Howard LUTNIK, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COMPLEXITIES OF LUTNIK, YOU'VE GOT TO WASH YOUR HANDS AFTERWARDS. YOU FEEL SO SOILED WITH. BE WITH THE CONFLICTS THAT ARE THERE, BUT JUST TO GET TWO OR THREE OUT THERE, HIS GENERAL COUNSEL, HIS GENERAL COUNSEL KNOW, IN THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT OF THE SCAM COMPANY, THE GUY. WAS TALKING WITH THE INVESTIGATORS ON HOW TO.

INVESTIGATE THIS SCAM A COMPANY. SECONDLY, HE CALLED OFF BIDEN'S. INVESTIGATION THAT. WAS INHERITED. THEY SHUT IT DOWN IN THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT. LUTNICK DID. LUTNICK DID. AND THIRDLY, YOU KNOW, AS BRIAN REPORTED VERY, VERY WELL, I THINK HE'S DONE A FANTASTIC JOB ON THIS, IN POINTING OUT JUST. IT WAS A COMPANY THAT SHOULD BE. ON THE SANCTIONS LIST AND HE. MANAGED TO UNDERMINE THAT. OF COURSE, WE HAVE ALSO SEEN THAT HE. WAS ON THE MEMO.

that spelled all this out, and he chose not to. apparently... Marco Rubio's memo. Marco Rubio's not informed. So, you know, what's going on here? What's going on here? He's got investments in all these things. His 27-year-old son, a year and a THE PRESIDENT. THAT YOU HAVE. OUT OF COLLEGE IS NOW RUNNING. THIS MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR OPERATION OF. SOME 14 HE'S JUST PUT IN CHARGE OF IT. ALL WITH THEORITICALLY IT'S ON A. BLIND TRUST AND DADDY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. CANTER FITZGERALD IS BEHIND INVOLVED IN A LOT OF THESE. DEALS. THAT HAVE HIM SO CONFLICTED ON THE IT'S UNBELIEVABLE ON.

THE CRYPTO FRONT, ON THE RARE MINERALS. FRONT, AND THESE ARE COMMERCE. DEPARTMENT DEALS THAT LUTNICK IS DOING, EVEN GETTING LOANS FROM SOME. OF THE COMPANIES THAT BE A LITTLE BIT. THAT HE'S OVERSEEING, GOING BACK INTO. THE FAMILY. I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS. OTHER THAN TEA POT DOME. GEEZE, THANK YOU, LUTNIK. I'M HOPING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO ARE GOING. TO BE ON THESE COMMITTEES ARE TAKING NOTES TO. WHAT PROFESSOR SONENFELD JUST LAID OUT FOR US. SO LUTNIK SAYS. I'M GOING TO SHOW UP, I'M HAPPY GOING TO TESTIFY.

HOW IS THIS GOING TO GO DOWN? IF HE JUST HAS TO ANSWER FOR A FRACTION. OF WHAT THE PROFESSOR JUST LAID OUT, HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY, IS LUTNICK JUST SO. CONFIDENT WHEN IT COMES. TO WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR HIM TO. TESTIFY BEFORE CONGRESS OR DOES HE BELIEVE SO. DEEPLY THAT TRUMP HAS HIS BACK? BECAUSE EVERY GREEN FLAG STAGE THAT HOWARD. LUTNICK GAVE INVIDIA OR GAVE MEGA SPEED. THE PERSON WHO BACKED HIM WAS. DONALD TRUMP AND WE KNOW IT. BECAUSE EVEN IN THE LAST IN THE LAST FEW DAYS,

TRUMP URGED JENSEN WONG TO STAY IN THE. SEAT AND EVEN TOLD STEPHEN A. SMITH IN AN INTERVIEW A DAY DAY AND HALF AGO, DEFINITELY DOWNPLAYED THE NATIONAL SECURITY. WELL, IT'S JUST ALL ABOUT HIS FAMILY RIGHT NOW. ALL ABOUT HIS FAMILY IS NOT WE DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS. IN. THIS PERSON'S PERSONAL LIFE. IT'S A NATIONAL SECURITY POTENTIAL DISASTER, AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS. YES, LOOK, THERE ARE LOTS OF. REPUBLICANS WHO ARE. GOING TO WANT TO TAKE HOWARD LUTNIK AND. MAKE HIM THE FALL GUY FOR ALL OF THIS. THERE HAVE BEEN KNIVES OUT FOR.

LUTNIK FOR QUITE A WHILE. NOW THEY CAN KNIFE HIM IN THE FRONT INSTEAD. OF THE BACK AS THEY SEEM TO ALREADY BE DOING. BUT THE QUESTION THAT A LOT OF LAWMAKERS ARE GOING TO. LOOK AT. IS WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT WHEN DID HE KNOW IT, AND WHY DID HE KEEP LOOKING THE OTHER. WAY ON THIS SCANDAL? HE'S KNOWN FOR MORE THAN A YEAR. THAT THIS THING WAS BUILDING. AND THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF IT'S NOT A CONCERN. FOR THE PRESIDENT AND ALL OF THE PEOPLE AROUND. HIM TO INTERVENE AT SOME POINT.

THE PROBABLE ANSWER FOR A LOT. OF THIS IS THE COMPANY THAT IS OBVIOUSLY. AT THE CENTER OF THE ECONOMY THAT. TRUMP IS TRYING TO BUILD, BUILT AROUND AI. HE WANTS TO REPLICATE THE. CLINTON YEARS WITH THE TECH BOOM. AND HE WANTS TO BE THE CENTER OF THAT. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY.

THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T WANT TO. LOSE THAT AT ANY POINT. THAT'S WHY HE WAS INVITING HIM ON AIR FORCE ONE. DESPITE THE WARNINGS. THAT'S WHY THERE WERE ALL THESE. INVITATIONS TO THE WHITE HOUSE. DESPITE THE WARNINGS. THAT IS WHAT A LOT OF LAWMAKERS. ARE EVENTUALLY GOING TO WANT TO. GET AT AFTER THEY GET DONE WITH. DEALING WITH HOWARD LUTNICK. I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP. YOU KNOW WHAT, BEFORE I DO I DON'T WANT TO. DO THAT. I KNOW I HAVE A MINUTE. JEFFREY, CAN YOU THINK OF A TIME, CAN YOU THINK OF A BUSINESS.

LEADER IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT. HAD THIS KIND OF POWER INFLUENCE, WHEN YOU GUYS JUST LAID OUT ALL. OF THE INDUSTRIES. HE'S CONNECTED TO, ALL OF THE OTHER BUSINESSES, ALL OF THE BANKS THAT ARE NOW TANGLED WITH THIS, HOW THE U .S. GOVERNMENT CARES BECAUSE THIS. COMPANY DRIVES THE GLOBAL MARKETS, AND ON MONDAY OF THIS week before he stepped down it. was bounced. whoever you want to call it many. people said he's too big. to fire how did we allow how did it come. that one person jensen wong could. become this powerful. and this influential, and at the same time,

like all men in Greek tragedies, this vulnerable. Something which is different about him is. that he has a disarmingly almost sweet demeanor, despite wearing the same Tom Ford slick leather, wearing a leather jacket. and creating a brand that is synonymous. with the brand of his company, he didn't seem to have the grandiosity. and ego of some of the brutes. that you have out there. He's not an Elon Musk, he's not a Mark Zuckerberg, and that accessibility I think people liked. and he's he he talks about technical things. in reasonably non-technical ways.

that he didn't try to mystify so he'd. win people over that way. So and you know some people we know just. went out to the I'll show you a picture. when we go on the break HE HAD AN OPERA. WITH HIM LAST TUESDAY. THEY ARE SHOCKED, THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HIS. SOCIAL LIFE. LET ALONE EVERYTHING ELSE. IT WAS, PEOPLE JUST DID NOT I DO NOT SEE THIS COMING. 60 DIRECT REPORTS, YOU CAN KEEP A LOT OF. PEOPLE IN THE DARK. WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS THAT HAD NO CEOs ON IT, NOBODY HAS EVER SPOKEN TO BOARDS. HE WAS A COMPANY IN THE WORLD. AND HE HAD A PUBLIC INTERFACE. THERE WAS NOBODY WHO COULD REALLY COUNTER HIM.

IT WAS SHEER FORCE OF PERSONALITY. WAIT, IT'S THE SECOND most powerful company. in the world. And I feel like what I hear you saying, but I don't want to put words. in your mouth is it was a junior varsity board. They're nice people. They're technically sufficient, you know, proficient in their respective disciplines. They are not sufficient to be as a board. The board composition is a huge problem here. You're absolutely right. You're asking the question almost facetiously. as we sat down, how would this company be different. if there was no board? It wouldn't have made any difference. Yeah, well, in this age of big tech,

I mean, you know, corporate governance is out the window. I mean, Elon Musk has told us that. if you look at all the super voting rights. that all of these tech CEOs have, they really can't be fired for most reasons. I mean, if this, you know, kind of, I don't know, spy espionage intrigue wasn't involved, I'll bet you that Elon, excuse me, Jensen would still be. in the seat right now. Yeah. And so the one thing I just say, and I know this is maybe sounds a bit. cynical when we go back to kind. of the political implications here, the White House is going to be fine. I mean, they are there's going to be really, they're going to throw some folks under the bus. and they're going to move right along. I mean, that's just kind of the Trump playbook.

right here. So really what it comes down to, in my opinion, is it's this. Well, we're going to, you know, if you have me back sometimes, Steph, over the next few months, we'll see. I think we're going to move on from this. This is the Trump era. This is what these scandals. do. I think the other implications, I don't mean to say we should not be talking. about this right now. I think there's so many important things going. on in and around it. The Trump era that you're talking. about ended one week ago. because the United States all got up. and voted on one issue, corruption. And what is this story about? Corruption.