'A problem for decades’: David Rohde underscores systemic issues ahead of FAA ground stop

transportation reporter Josh Einiger. I will give it to you guys. I will just say I've been speaking with folks, former officials who worked at AT CISA, THE CYBERSECURITY ORGANIZATION THAT WOULD. HANDLE DEALING WITH THINGS LIKE THIS. AND DAVID WROTE, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THEY POINTED ME TO A REPORT FROM SEPTEMBER 14th, A GAO report that talks about the fragilities, if you will, of the system. And a person from directly familiar. with the investigation happening. at this moment tells me that the issue.

at says that they believe, from the government's perspective, they believe is in fact an update issue. that they are working on. In terms of a software update? Yes. I assume, yes. And that's That's what don't have. any confirmation on this, either. CBS News has been reporting that, that it was an update of a software system. that then caused this wider outage. I want to say I've talked to national. security officials, and they We have no one. These are multiple people, part of the congressional. oversight.

committees that they talk to the White House. They've talked to the Defense Department. and other intelligence agencies. There's no indication of any kind. of foreign plot or some terrorist. somehow causing this. And I know that must seem extraordinary. to our viewers and the people stranded. on planes and in airports around the country, but one theory not confirmed, and Josh may know more is that, yes, this was a software update, which is shocking and I think shows. a real vulnerability to our system. But that is one thing that we're hearing.

at this point. Josh, let's expand on that. So two part question, if. you will. Obviously, first and foremost, our hearts go out to everybody who's. caught up in this. I mean, there's people traveling to funerals, weddings, birthdays, reunions today is a very hard thing to deal with. But in terms of what's happening, two part question. One, what would something like this software update. be for? And secondly, I've been hearing from some. folks here. in Dulles Airport near D .C. that their flights to Europe are actually.

going forward. So our international flights, perhaps being picked up. by different airspace still getting. out of the country? It's exactly that's exactly it, Luke. And it's good to be with you. I'll tackle that first. It's actually the easiest really to answer. and to understand. Not that there's been any official release. of information to this effect, but the issue at play is 22 centers. across the United States. So when you get on a plane, Luke, in D C and you fly to Los Angeles, you, you know, you deal with Washington center,

and then you get handed off to the next. center to the west. So the next center to the west, you're talking to Cleveland center. in Indianapolis, and you're looking your way. in the direction of the flight path. that your flight has filed, right? Those are 22 centers across the country. They deal with flights at cruise altitude. at 30 ,000 feet or wherever. That is what's happening here. There's a frequency issue, a communication issue. at that level that has led to this ground stop.

So when you're outside the continental. United States, you're not in that national airspace network. And so in the last hour or two, we've been noticing flights departing. I'm here in Los Angeles. A number of flights have departed westbound. toward Asia from LAX. Flights from the East Coast have been able to. launch over the North Atlantic toward Europe. But importantly, you know, planes aren't coming in. because they're not accepting planes. into the national airspace. So that's the first thing that sort. of explains that. As for what this software update is, I mean,

like David also, I've seen that reporting. I haven't been able to independently confirm. that, but I will tell you that we've. been talking now for quite some time. about this huge modernization. of the national airspace, which everyone knows is. antiquated, has been not updated for generations. Congress appropriated $12 billion. for a massive overhaul of this system. The D .O .T., the Trump administration is. looking for billions more to extend. this overhaul, this modernization effort. But one of the things that's been.

happening is they've been taking copper wire, so if you think about it, much of the system is. running. and communicating over antiquated copper wire, old computers that use floppy disks, they're updating all that stuff. They're ripping out the copper, they're putting in fiber optic, fiber cable, and it's a digital 2026. application. to migrate all this stuff here. So if, you know, if that reporting is. correct, it would speak to the new technology.

that's being put in software. updates that would be necessary. as part of that effort. Why would it take down the whole system? We don't know. What exactly did come down, really, we haven't been told. All we've been told is that it's this network. of air traffic centers across the country. The facilities called tracons, I will just point out one more thing, Luke. The tracon facilities are the facilities. that you'll hear about that handle. the traffic that's either descending.

or had recently taken off. They're maybe from 5 ,000 to 20 ,000 feet, right? They are working fine, which is a good thing. The tower facilities, which is actually what you. think. of when you think of the control tower, it's the actual building you see. at the airport all they really deal. with is planes moving around on the ground. and the planes actively landing. and taking off they're moving fine as far. as we've been told and that's why. the planes that are already. in the air have been continuing to. their destinations but they're. not letting any more planes into the system because of.

that problem. at high altitude and i will reiterate. that there are a lot of unknowns here. but because you brought up this issue. of modernization josh there there was sort of a. striking and i guess coincidental policy action. taken by the administration just hours. before this ground stop today when the white. house and the u .s department. of transportation requested congress. for an additional 30 billion dollars. for aviation infrastructure modernization.

this is on top of the 12 .5 billion. that i believe you referenced josh that was. appropriated across five years last. summer that has been spent so far to try to. replace those copper wires in. their letter actually russ vote the head of. omb along with sean duffy the faa administrator. did say that so far 68 percent of. those legacy copper telecommunications networks. have been replaced so far obviously a bit.

remaining but this one graph really struck me. and i'm just going to read it out loud quickly. because it is a testament to just how. antiquated our system still is the faa relies. on decades-old computers as well as. replacement parts bought through auction websites. this is according to. reuters last week it said it would play it. would replace by the end of. 2028 floppy disks used for weather. and other critical information at more. than 400 air traffic control facilities so. my question for you,

David is in this current Congress, maybe the lame duck session or even. in a new Congress in January is something. like $30 billion in aviation infrastructure. Something that has the possibility. of actually being appropriated. and making it through both chambers? I would certainly hope so. I mean, this is a moment of political opportunity. I think most Americans are shocked. that this entire system can come down. this way because there isn't. been enough upgrades. Some will criticize the Trump administration,

to be honest, the Biden administration as well, and that this has been a problem for years. or even decades that this has gone on. So we could have a test. I don't see why President Trump would veto such, you know, $30 billion is not that large. The Defense Department's asking. for 1 .5 trillion. But, you know, would Republicans try to override. his veto? I just think there's such frustration. in the country with high prices and, you know, a sense of, you know, high mortgage rates and the problems. with the health care system and now our aviation system.

So I would hope Congress would even act. before January to address. WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP YET, THIS IS ALMOST TWO HOURS INTO THIS NOW? NO, WE HAVE HEARD FROM HIM, BUT NOT ABOUT THIS TOPIC. PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS NOT TALKED ABOUT THIS topic. Neither has Vice President Vance. No, and, you know, I asked, you know, to Luke's point, I did ask a former senior CISA official, and CISA is the Cybersecurity. and Infrastructure security agency um.

in the united states government. about that very question because when i went. at the white house it would usually be the nsc. the national security council um spokespeople. and national security um council that would. take the lead on something like this and um this. person underscored to me. that it is a correct point at the end. of the day this is a very big deal. and you would want to have someone. from the white house from the podium. at least explaining what is going on. WHAT IS BEING DONE, THEY NOTED. WHAT DO WE KNOW? WHAT DON'T WE KNOW?

AND WHAT ARE THE SYSTEMIC CASCADING IMPLICATIONS? THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT JUST YET IS.