Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

[Music]. Trauma is not what happened to you. It's. what h what what happened inside of you. as a result of what happened to you. Physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional. abuse of children, neglect, a parent. being addicted, a parent dying, a parent. being jailed, poverty or racism. These. are big traumatic events that can wound. kids. I had a wildly traumatic birth. I. got rushed to emergency surgery. Oh. gosh. And lost 2 and 1/2 L of blood. Oh. gosh. and they sent Sawyer home with.

Chris. They kept me in the hospital and. by the time I went home, I had severe. postpartum depression. She's recently. uh gone into therapy and one of her. visions is a vision that she. has where she's in her crib. Yeah. And. she really wants me to come. Yeah. and. it's my husband and then it's my mother. and then it's my mother-in-law and then. it's my friend Joanie that would sit. with me while Chris went to work and I.

never came. that's one of the impacts of trauma is. that a that shame based view of the self. people start blaming themselves that. somehow you invited it or deserved it or. you didn't fight back hard enough the. healing needs to begin with some. compassionate curiosity towards the self. not why but. Why? It's a totally different. conversation. It makes. me sad that I didn't know this sooner.

Yeah. But I feel very grateful for your. work. Mhm. Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so. thrilled that you're here with me. It is. always an honor to be able to spend time. together with you. If you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. And. I know because you chose to listen to. this episode that you're the type of. person who values your time and you're. also interested in learning about ways. that you can improve your life. I love. that. I love that you're listening to.

this episode. And you want to know what. else I love? I love that you and I are. going to get to spend time learning from. the extraordinary Dr. Gabbor Mate. Dr. Mate is a world-renowned physician and. best-selling author whose work dives. deep into childhood development and the. impact of trauma on how it shapes your. mental and physical health over your. lifetime. Dr. Mate has completely. transformed how the world sees, talks. about, and understands trauma. And he.

has absolutely had that impact on me, and it's been life-changing. I promise. you this episode is going to shift the. way you see everything, how you show up. for yourself, how you connect with the. people you love, and why you experience. life the way that you do. It's going to. help you understand why coping has. become your default and how you can move. toward true healing. I am so excited for. both you and me. So, please, please, please help me welcome the extraordinary.

Dr. Gabbor mate to the Mel Robbins. podcast. Before we dive in, Gabbor, I. would love to have you speak directly to. the person who's listening to us and. just share with them what they might. expect to experience if they really take. to heart what you're about to teach us. and share with us today. Well, a lot of people are facing. challenges. Um, a lot of people are very. hard on themselves. A lot of people. think there's something wrong with them. uh my fundamental understanding and what.

I've learned is that underneath there's. nothing wrong with anybody that. everything you're dealing with came. along for a reason. there were. adaptations or they were responses to. difficult. situations. And the more you can. understand where your issues came from. and even when your negative self you and. the shame and the self-loathing and the. self-criticism and the. perfectionism that you experience that. there were actually. responses to some kind of life.

experience and that fundamentally there. was and there is nothing wrong with you. And those things can be looked at and. you can understand them and you can um. transform that and really become. yourself who you are. That's available. to you. It's available to everybody. So. nobody's damaged goods. I love that. No. one is damaged goods. Yeah. We are going. to unpack this uh in this conversation. at length, but I think it might be. helpful for someone who is not familiar.

with your work. Yeah. If we could go. back. Sure. And can you share if we go. all the way back to your childhood just. what was happening in your life and in. particular how finding your mother's. journal really impacted you and sent you. in a certain direction in terms of your. life's work? Well, so I was born uh 80. years ago uh this year um in Budapest, Hungary, January 1944 to Jewish parents.

whose um lives. were already impacted by the Second. World War. My father was in forced labor. with the Hungarian army. A Jewish man. had to go into forced labor when I was. born. So he wasn't there when I was. born. In um March, the German army. occupied Hungary. And then the genocide, the holocaust that had obliterated the. Jewish population of Eastern Europe, but. not yet that of Hungaries began in our. country. And within three months between.

March and. June, they murdered half a million Jews, including my grandparents. And we came. very close to being deported ourselves, my mother and I. So I spent the first. year of my life under Nazi occupation uh. with the mother was terrorized and grief. struck. didn't know if my father was. dead or alive for most of that year. And. then when I was 11 months of age to save. my life, mother mother gave me to a. complete stranger, Christian woman in. the street. And she conveyed me to some.

relatives living in relative safety and. hiding. Um I didn't see her for five or. 6 weeks. And all this is recorded in the. journal that she kept. I I didn't. discover the journal. I I always had. this her her. journal, but for many years when I tried. to read it, I get. dizzy. It's almost like sending me knew. that this is too painful for me to. handle. So it wasn't until some years. ago when my mother is still alive when I.

asked her to actually read the journal. to me so I could really read what. happened. And she wrote in the journal that I'm. writing this cuz if my son if my son. grows up I want him to know what. happened. So that's in a nutshell. But. those events left a deep imprint in my. nervous system in my body and in in my. psyche. Um, and those traumatic events. created a lot of psychological wounds in.

me that took me some years to even. recognize, let alone to heal. And uh, it. wasn't until I was into late adulthood. and or middle age that I really began to. deal with it and to recognize the. subsequent impacts that then I passed on. to my kids without meaning to, but just. for the lack of awareness. So that's it. in a nutshell. Well, that's a big. nutshell. Yeah. Wow. So, how did those.

experiences in your life really start to. shape your work? Like, how did you start. doing what you do today? Well, before it shaped my work, it. shaped me and how I functioned in the. world or how I dysfunctioned in the. world in so many ways. So it's it's when. I began to experience challenges in my. life. Um I was a successful doctor in my. early. 40s. Um.

respected but depressed and unhappy. Um. I was married to the love of my life and. we had a very strained conflictual. marriage and my kids had issues and some. ways they were afraid of me cuz I was. very unpredictable. Um so all those issues then made me. start looking for some answers. So the. work began by having to look at myself. and trying to understand the sources of. my behaviors. Um and that coincided with.

me noticing things as a physician in my. medical practice. And that's how I began. to look at childhood development, the. impacts of early years, um the concept. of trauma and what that represented and. its impacts on adult or childhood mental. health, physical illness and so on. So. both my personal experience and my. professional work kind of led me in this. direction of exploration.

And what have you. learned about how childhood experiences. shape who we become as adults? They're. largely. decisive and. um this begins even before birth. So. already the emotional states of the. mother while carrying the baby will. affect the child's brain development. I. just want to make sure that the person. that's with us in this conversation. really gets this because I didn't first.

learn that your emotional state and your. physical state when you're carrying the. child impacts the nervous system and. development of the human being inside. you and it makes sense but but can you. explain more about that because this is. an idea that was brand new to me just a. couple years ago. Sure. But we have to. nail down first is we're not blaming. mothers here. They do their best. We're.

talking about the stress is acting on. the pregnant woman. That's no fault of. her own. But speaking of stress, when. people are stressed, they release stress. hormones are dwelling on cortisol. When. the mother is stressed in pregnancy, those stress hormones go through the. placenta of the umbilical cord to the. baby that affects the child's nervous. system in his development. Cortisol has. a huge impact on the development of. important brain circuits. You. can look at the heart rate of infants in.

the womb as it changes as the mother is. more or less. stressed. So these are just. physiological facts. So um there was a. study done after. 911 after. the tragedy of 9 911 women who were. pregnant then. uh and who suffered post-traumatic. stress disorder in the third trimester. of pregnancy as a result of.

911 their infants had abnormal stress. hormone levels a year. later. Now abnormal tester levels have. an impact on brain development and on. physiology on the physiology and. physiological health as well. So you can. expect those kids unless something's. done to to correct it to face more. challenges later on. And we know that. mothers who are stressed during. pregnancy, depressed during during. pregnancy, their children are more. likely to have ADHD, attention deficit.

disorder, other mental health. challenges. So it's just now what's. interesting here is indigenous people. have always known this. I was talking to. a a native group in British Columbia. where I live and this guy comes up to me. and says you know doc in our community. when a woman was pregnant there was a. rule that if you're stressed or upset. you were not permitted to go near them. We didn't want your stress and upset to. affect the baby. So this modern science. has only confirmed indigenous wisdom.

But it's a huge issue in this country in. this culture cuz people are so stressed. for so many reasons. Well, it's interesting to listen to you. explain all this because for me. personally, your work has impacted both. me and recognizing the way that. childhood experiences. and in vitro experiences when I was. inside my mother's body impacted Sorry. In utero. In utero. Is that what it.

Okay. See, I'm not a medical doctor. No, in vitro means in the laboratory. Oh, okay. You're right. In in utero. Exactly. Yeah. so impacted me when I was. inside my mother developing, you know, into a baby. Yeah. And then I think. about your work in the context of me as. a stressed out mother. Yeah. And the. state that I was in when I was carrying. any one of our three children and how. that absolutely impacted their. development. There's this kind of.

conflict that I feel between, oh gosh, you know, I hurt my kids and I didn't. mean to and also this understanding. that I think this is part of the human. experience on some level. Well, for. first of all, when my mother was. carrying me, I don't think she even. wanted to be pregnant. I mean, what. Jewish woman really wanted to be. pregnant in the middle of the Second. World War when my when her husband is in. forced labor? already in Udo kids can.

feel if they're not. wanted. I've seen this show up in many. many many many ways. Now the the the. thing that I would take up with you. is on the one hand there's the awareness. that this is what happened but the way. you formulated that you hurt your kids. No pain flowed through you to your. children but you didn't hurt them. You. didn't. It's not that you did something. deliberately or consciously to hurt.

them. It's just that the way it worked. is that trauma is transmitted. transgenerationally. But that's not to. blame anybody. And it's really important. to remove blame cuz parents feel so. guilty already. Parents with kids who. are challeng have challenges. Believe. me, I've been one of them. There's a. tremendous sense of guilt which is. entirely unwarranted and undeserved and. it doesn't even help. So let's just. agree that the trauma does come through. us but we don't do it as such that is.

incredibly helpful way to think about it. though when you said that it's pain. moving through you. Yeah. Yeah. That. made my shoulders drop. How do you define trauma particularly. for somebody. who isn't aware whether or not they've. experienced it? Um the way I define it. is very straightforward. Trauma comes. from a Greek word for wound or wounding. So trauma is a wound. It's a. psychological wound in this case. Could. be a physical wound, but here we're. talking about psychological wounds. The.

important distinction to make is that. trauma is not what happened to you. It's. what h what happened inside of you as a. result of what happened to you. So in my. case, my trauma wasn't that my mother. gave me to a stranger. The trauma was. the wound which is that I perceive. myself as not wanted. I perceive myself. as abandoned. Who gets abandoned? Somebody who doesn't deserve to be. loved. So then I develop this sense of.

not being good enough, not um being. lovable enough. Now that means I spend. much of my life trying to prove that I'm. good, that I'm lovable, that I am. important, which then drives all kinds. of behaviors which then create more. problems. But the trauma is not the. event, that's the traumatic. um episode, but the trauma is the wound. that happens inside you. So if I get a. blow head, that's not the trauma. The. trauma is the concussion that I.

developed. Now, in that case, it's. physical. And I want to kind of hover. here because for a long time I just. assumed trauma was something that. happened to people. Yeah. Who were at. war or were in a country that was. occupied by you know a fascist. government or country coming in like. your parents were and that you were. Yeah. I or somebody that was the the. victim of a violent crime. I never. understood that experiences that may.

seem insignificant on the surface, somebody's mood, somebody criticizing. you, feeling left out, that these are. things that can also leave a mark just. like a blow to a head can can actually. leave a concussion. And I would love for. you to explain to us what actually is a. psychological wound because one of the. things that I see happening a lot is. people either shame themselves for being. stuck or they say I'm just too emotional.

or I should just get over it. And there. is something deeper that you mean when. you say it's a psychological wound. So. well that self-t talk that negative. selft talk that you just articulated is. itself a psychological wound. It's a sign of psychological wound. It's. a sign of self-rejection which is one of. the deepest impacts of of trauma is that. people traumatized they develop a shame. based view of themselves. So they begin. to think that there's something wrong.

with them. That itself is a wound. Now. when you talked about seemingly. insignificant things we have to make a. distinction here. There are what we call. the big T traumatic events. Those are. have been well studied. Physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse of. children, neglect, a parent being addicted, a. parent dying, a parent being jailed, um. violence in the family, um a ranker's. divorce, a parent being mentally ill, to.

which we need to add social factors such. as poverty or racism. These are bigt. traumatic events that can wound kids and. we can talk about the ways that hap. happens. But you can also wound kids not. by doing bad things to them that you. shouldn't but by not doing the good. things that they need. In other words, children have certain needs. A human. child is born with certain evolution. determined needs. Those children whose. needs are not met that way for example.

for unconditional loving acceptance and. I'm not talking about the parents love. I'm talking about the capacity of the. parent to unconditionally accept the. child and to see the child. What do you. mean when you say unconditional. acceptance? Because I think most of us. it's revelatory to hear no. There's a. biological hardwired need that you have. as a child to feel unconditional. acceptance and safety. Yeah. From the. adults around you and in your. environment. And if you do not feel that.

way, it creates a response inside your. body. There is a reaction to that. But. most of us, I think we even just skip. over that fact, Gabbor, that there's a. fundamental need that a child has to. feel accepted. And so what does that. mean? If you could unpack it for us. Sure. Children get to experience and see. themselves the way they are seen by the. adults. So if a child gets emotional and.

they get criticized, then there's think. there's something wrong with their. emotions. If a child is very sensitive and they're. told, "Don't be so sensitive," they. think there's something wrong with. them. If. um a child, a young toddler is behaving. a certain way and the parent thinks that. the way to correct this is to punish the. child, then the child and the child is. just being a 2-year-old. Then the child begins to believe that.

there's something wrong with them and. they have to compensate for that by. meeting the parents. expectations. So now the acceptance is. no longer unconditional. I'll accept you. if you look this way, talk this way, behave this way. And then all your life. you'll be worried about how do people. see you. That's a sign of a childhood. wound. Because fundamentally uh we need. to be connected to ourselves and and um.

when parents don't see us, we don't see. ourselves. That's just a fact. And if. you look at human evolution, um we didn't. evolve under the conditions that kids. are raised now. We evolved under. conditions for millions of years. until 15,000 years ago living in small. communities where there were many. adults. It takes a village to raise a.

child. Um the kids were always with the. parents. There was no separation. Kids. were carried everywhere. They were not. put down to let it let them cry it out. they were just unconditionally accepted. and uh not punished actually not. hit. It's a totally different paradigm. of of parenting. That's how we evolved. which means that the human child expects. to be treated that. way uncondition you know unconsciously.

when those needs are not met kids are. hurt. Children have another need which. is we're wired to have certain emotions. you know along with other mammals we're. wired to have anger it's anger is. essential for survival fear we're wired. to have fear we're wired to have um. curiosity seeking we're wired to have. um separation. distress so that if the adults not. around we should be upset we should.

panic so we cry so the parents come and. get us. Mhm. We're wired for play. And. children have this need that when those. emotions arise, parents should. understand those emotions and and and. not necessarily do what the kid wants. them to do, but to understand the. child's feelings. And when children are denied that kind. of understanding, they think there's. something wrong with their emotions. Then they start telling themselves, I'm. too emotional. I'm not good enough. Uh.

I'm too sensitive. I am. um not lovable. Or when children don't. get the attention that they need, guess. what? They develop and need to be. attractive so they can attract. attention. Now look at the damage done. in this culture by people thinking that. they need to meet certain standards of. physical. looks and the trouble that people go to. It's all because they were not accepted. just for who they were and not they're.

trying to attract attention. Is there a. human being on the planet that doesn't. have trauma from their childhood? I. mean, you know, cuz I I'm sitting here. listening and it's an interesting. conversation because you listen to it. both from your experience. Yeah. And I. love that you said we're not going to. blame mothers. Yeah. And pain is moving. through people. Yeah. This is why trauma. passes through your family and through. cultures generationally. Yeah. And.

learning about this helps you understand. the responses to your childhood that. helped you survived. Yeah. And it also. helps you feel empowered to take. responsibility. That's right. To change. those now subconscious responses that. you have. Yeah. So going back to your. question about is there anybody on the. planet? Yeah. But in this culture, that. would be the exception because there's. so many features of this culture that. don't meet human needs that human make. human life difficult. Look, the United.

States is the richest country in. history. 70% of adults are at least on. one medication. 40% of adults are at. least on two medications. More and more. kids are getting medicated for all kinds. of conditions from ADHD to self- cutting. to to aggression to so-called. oppositionality to. anxiety. We can look at this two ways. Either human beings are just.

innately troubled or there's something. wrong with the environment in which. we're raising our kids and in which. we're trying to striving to doing our. best but we're facing conditions that. are enimical to healthy human. development. So in this sense when we. talk about trauma we're talking about. the conditions under which parents have. to function these days. If I was. functioning in a laboratory trying to. grow. microorganisms, the word is called. culturing. We're trying to culture. organisms, laboratory culture. If in.

that laboratory culture, a lot of those. microorganisms began to develop. pathologies or die off, you have to say. this is a toxic culture. Well, it's the. same thing with human beings. So rather. than look at the source of people's. problems strictly within themselves, we. have to actually look at the conditions. for any creature in the world, whether. it's a plant or animal, you have to look. at the conditions under which people are. living and raising kids and trying to.

function. So that's what I'm doing here. When you think of childhood trauma, how. do you identify it? Well, again, I. mentioned those 10 conditions, the big. T, the big T's ones. um adding to it. poverty and. racism. Those things actually affect the. physiology of the body. So people who. are traumatized that way, they have a. much higher risk. For example, people. who've had several of those big. experiences that I talked about, they. have a higher risk for autoimmune.

disease, high risk for higher risk for. cancer, much higher risk for addiction, much higher risk for mental health. problems and so on. Why? Like can you. explain for from a medical reason like. in the body this show is has listeners. in 194 countries. Sure. And this might. be the very first time as you're. listening to God birth that you're. actually starting to go wait a minute. Everything that he's saying is what I. experienced. Yeah. Or at least pieces of. it. I've never considered that this.

could be trauma. Yeah. And we've talked. about it as a psychological wound, but I. think it'd be really helpful if you also. explained how does this create either. programming or conditioning in your body. that starts to define who you become as. an adult and create behaviors that you. never intended. So that happens on both. the physiological and the psychological. level. Okay. On the physiological level, trauma incites inflammation in the body.

So people who are severely traumatized. in childhood, you can measure the level. of inflammatory particles in their. bloodstream. They'll be abnormally high, which makes them more at risk for. cancer, more at risk for autoimmune. disease, more at risk for depression, mental health problems, and so on. That's just a physiological fact. Trauma. can affect the way uh genes are turned. on and off. So genes don't function. independently. Um there are very few. conditions that are purely genetically. determined. There are some when one runs.

in my family musculardrophe if you. inherit the gene you'll have the disease. but that's very rare relatively but. genes are turned on off by the animal. environment so the wrong genes can be. turned on and the and the right genes. can be turned off by trauma then trauma. can disregulate the body's stress. mechanism. So people are secretreting. more cortisol and adrenaline. These are. the stress hormones which in the short. term are lifesaving because if I was.

threatened or you were we would generate. cortisol adrenaline from an adrenal. gland and we would be stronger and. faster and better able to counter the. threat either to escape or to fight. back. But in the long term, those same. stress hormones thin the bones, create. more clotting in the blood, narrow the. blood vessels, elevate the high blood. pressure, elevate the blood pressure, you get hypertension, suppress the. immune system, put fat on your belly,

creating higher risk for heart disease, makes you depressed, ulcerate your. intestines. These are the stress. hormones. Wow. So there's all that um on. the physiological side and I could say. more about it, but if you for example I. I mentioned racism. So if you look at. the chromosomeal aging of black people. in this country, they age faster than. Caucasians. And black is already have. higher blood pressure measurements than.

their Caucasian counterparts. It's got. nothing to do with genetics. It's got to. do with the stress of racism. A black woman in this country, the more. episodes of racism they experience, the. higher the risk for. asthma. Children whose parents are. stressed are at higher risk for asthma. This has been known for. decades. I could go on a great length. about that. So these are some of the. physiological impacts. Then there are. the emotional impacts.

So like in my case being given to a. stranger gives me the sense of not being. wanted, not being important. Then I. develop behaviors where I try and prove. my importance. So I become a workaholic. doctor. So I drive myself too hard and I. don't pay so much attention to my family. cuz I'm out there trying to prove my. importance in the world. Now that has. impact on my kids, that has an impact on. my marriage. So there's these um.

behavior emotional impacts which result. in certain behaviors. Then we can talk. about addictions. Addictions is a huge. consequence of childhood trauma of all. kinds. And there's all kinds of science. behind that. So the one more thing if I. may. say when people get the message that. their emotions aren't acceptable to the. adults children will push down their. feelings in order to be accepted and. they'll try to be nice and.

cooperative and they'll try to fit in. with other people's expectations which. then means they'll be stressed all the. time which then potentiates all kinds of. illness. You know, I am sitting here. thinking about ways in. which I can try to. distill down what you're saying because. the information has been so. life-changing for me in my own life to. really accept, acknowledge, and seek to.

understand how childhood. experiences created a traumatic response. inside of me. And I want to focus on the. I guess you would call it the smaller T. stuff which is that you have fundamental. needs as a child and when they are not. provided to you that it creates trauma. inside of you. And is it fair to say. that another way to think about trauma. is that it's something happening outside.

of you that creates this almost like. alarm or bracing in your body. It's like. it it kind of flips you into that fight. or flight cuz I have this experience of. not like going back through my childhood. and not like seeing anything that's. massive related to my parents but just. having this sense of constantly being on. edge, constantly feeling like, you know, it's my job to make everybody happy, don't say the wrong thing, this hyper.

vigilance. And I never knew where it. came from. Yeah. Well, the child is very. sensitive to the parents emotional. states and uh even if for example you. can. uh one of the ways you can tell if a. marriage is troubled is you can ask the. parents or you can measure the child's. stress hormone. levels. So the stresses of the parents. are directly rel um affecting the. child's physiology and the child's. psychology. So you may not have.

articulated and and and and clearly see. what was going on, but especially if. you're a sensitive person genetically, and that is genetic sensitivity, you'll. feel exactly what's going on, and you'll. think it's all about you. And then you. also develop the belief that it's your. job to fix it. And then when you can't. fix it, you have this tremendous sense. of guilt and shame cuz you failed at. your job of making your parents happy, which never should have been the child's. job in the first place.

What is a child supposed to do? About. what? Just as you're growing up. It's. interesting because I think so many. people at least in my life and my lived. experience is that that that's my job to. protect myself to like make everybody. happy to but but you see that's how you. survived because what you needed most of. all is a relationship with your parents. and one of the needs of children that I. haven't mentioned is what we can call.

rest which means in order to cuz in that. rest state we can develop and grow and. unfold now rest means the child doesn't. have to work to make the relationship. work with the parent. The relationship. is just there. There's nothing the child. can do to break the relationship. Now, in a situation where that's not the. case, then the child. necessarily has to work to make the. relationship work because without that. relationship, they know they can't. survive. So, that.

adaptation, the the hyper vigilance on. your part, remember I said in the. beginning that nobody's damaged goods. Mhm. So that that hyper vigilance on. your part and that belief that it's your. job to make the situation peaceful, that's an adaptation on your part. So. that's a form of trauma. That's an. outcome of trauma. The problem. is that that becomes then wired into. your personality. But children don't. have any choice in the matter. They have. to adapt to this situation. Those.

adaptations they become wired into their. personalities and that's who they think. they are. That's not who they are. Those. are their adaptations, their trauma. showing up in their behavior and in. their emotional functioning. One of the. ways that I've seen people really deny. Yeah. the existence of trauma inside a. family is between siblings. Yeah. Where. two siblings will grow up in the same. household and be like, "Well, that never. happened." Or, "Mom wasn't like that, or. you're just being too sensitive." In.

your work, what have you discovered. about how siblings can grow up in the. same house? No siblings grow up in the. same house. No siblings have the same. parents. No siblings have the same. family. No siblings have the same. childhood. Why not? There whole lot of. reasons. Number one, there's the birth. order. Parents don't relate to the first. child the way they relate to the second. child. Then there's gender differences. Parents don't relate to I'm not talking.

about whe the parents love the kids or. not. I'm talking about what actually. happens. The child doesn't experience. the parents love. The child experiences. the way the parent shows up. So um. number one, number two, the parents. relationship might be in a different. phase, one child and another. um the parents might be in a different. economic. situation. The parents lives might be. different. Um. then each child will evoke a different.

response from the parent like with my. three kids or your three kids. Yeah. You. have three children. Yeah. You have two. daughters and a son. I have two sons and. a daughter. It's not that I loved or we. loved any one of them more than the. other. But we responded to them. differently. And there's one more factor. which is children are born with. different temperaments which is they. experience the world differently. So. even if I could be the same parent to. all my kids, which I couldn't be, they. still have three different parents. because they would experience me.

differently. Well, you know, I. I am sitting here. listening again kind of from two places. one as a mother, right? And one as a. human being who was a daughter who has. recognized that there were lots of small. things that happened and one big thing. that created a tremendous like a. traumatic response inside me. Sure. That. created hypervigilance and anxiety and. probably ADHD. And I'm also thinking and.

I'm going to share this because I think. it'll be really helpful that I had a. wildly traumatic birth. I was two weeks. overdue. They had to induce me here in. Boston and my daughter Sawyer who is. sitting outside this studio and yeah. worked on the let them theory book with. me she did not want to come out. Yeah. So it was 36 hours. They had to use a. forceps didn't work. They ended up doing. a vacuum extraction and then I tore and.

I got rushed to emergency surgery. Oh. gosh. And lost 2 and 12 liters of blood. Oh gosh. And they sent Sawyer home with. Chris. They kept me in the hospital and. by the time I went home, my skin was as. gray as a dolphin. Yeah. And I had. severe postpartum depression. Yeah. and. the kind gobber where I could not be. alone with her because I was in such a. depressive and scary state and I was on.

medications that made it completely. unsafe for me to breastfeed her. I. understand. And for the first 10 weeks. of her life, I was a zombie on. medication. And oh my god, it just like kills me to. think about this. and she's recently. uh gone into therapy and has started. doing EMDR. Yeah. And one of her visions. when they kind of.

trace her, you know, responses to. stressful things in the moment and it. goes all the way back to the first. vision. Yeah. Is a vision that she has. where she's in her crib. Yeah. And she. really wants me to come. Yeah. and it's. my husband and then it's my mother and. then it's my mother-in-law and then it's. my friend Joanie that would sit with me. while Chris went to work and I never. came. Yeah. So, we went through the same. thing uh with one of our children and my.

wife had a severe postbone depression. She couldn't even look at the kid and. um so let me say a couple of things. here. Um one is that sometimes birth trauma. happens you know but yours was severe. Now birth was created by nature in a. certain way and um during the birth. process there's natural hormones that. are released both in the mother and the. infant. It's been called a love.

cocktail. It's a combination of internal. opiates and. oxytocin and other brain chemicals which. create the bonding between the mother. and the. infant. Now, sometimes medical. intervention is life-saving and. essential. But we've medicalized birth. so much that we interfere with it so. much now that we're getting a lot of. birth trauma where it's not necessary. I'm not saying that was the case in your. situation, but nevertheless, we're doing.

it a lot, you. know, and that interferes with mother. and child bonding. Number one. Number. two, the child does have this need to. stay with the mother's body for many. months. Uh because the human child is. the. um least developed and the least mature. and the most dependent of any mammal. and the maturation like a horse can run. on the first day of life. Human beings. can't do that for a year and a half. The. horse is a year and a half ahead of us.

in terms of brain development. That's. because we develop these big. brains, these big heads. If we waited. any more than 9 months, we would never. get born. Sometimes even now, we barely. get born cuz the head is get stuck, which is probably what happened in in. your case. Mhm. Which means that the. development that in other animals. happens in the womb in human beings have. to happen outside the womb. That's been. called. extrostation. There's introestation in.

the womb and extra gestation outside the. womb. Now that means the mother's body, the mother's skin, the mother's. heartbeat close to the baby for many. many many months. So when that doesn't. happen in in the US 25% of women have to. go back to work within two weeks of. giving birth which is a massive. abandonment they don't do it because. they want to they don't they they have. to do it for economic reasons it's a. massive abandonment of children so so. there's the birth trauma and its impacts.

which then there's the mother's. depression and that has an impact on the. infant. So. people, kids whose mothers were. depressed postpartum have a higher risk. of. ADHD. And we can talk about why that's. the case. Why is that the case? Cuz all. three of my children have ADHD. Well, I I can tell you what I The first. book I ever wrote, Scattered Minds, was. an ADHD after I was. diagnosed. And um we can talk about.

that, but let me just say it now. That's. just the case. And we can discuss it. They've done electro and sephiloggrams. on six-month old infants whose mother. was depressed and whose mother was not. depressed. You could tell from the eg of. the infant whose mother is depressed and. who is not. Not because the depressed mother loves. the child any less or is any iota less. devoted than the non-depressed mother, but because depress depressed mother.

can't respond to the infant with the. same smiling u playful attuned. interaction which the child needs for. healthy brain development. It's a sacred. thing and and society needs to hold it. sacred. Now how mothers used to develop. or raise children is in the community. where they gave birth in a community. where they were with doulas where um no. mind you they didn't have the advantages.

of modern medicine which again I'm not. dismissing I'm just talking about how we. evolved right and there was such a thing. as aloe mothering other mothers would. come and support the mother when the. mother needed to rest other women would. come and hold the baby. um and mothers are left very much on. their own in the society and that. depression in the mother then affects. the child's brain. development. Not only. that, given that we develop a sense of.

ourselves based on how the adults look. at us when the mother or the parents. can't look at the child or they can't. hold the child again the child begins to. feel there's something wrong with them. It feels like there's a million ways for. this to actually happen. Well, there is. And I and I share the story because it's. true. I was a completely different. mother. Yeah. When I gave birth to our. second child, Kendall. Yeah. Just 19. months later. Yeah. And her birth was different. Yeah. And.

Chris and I were different. And so I can. see how without any ill intention Yeah. you are a very different parent. Absolutely. And the child is a very. different child. And the child is born. with a different temperament. Correct. So even so they they experience you. differently to start with you know. So. how do you like how does this sort of. unresolved trauma from childhood that I. would imagine you know a lot of us learn. about this as an adult and then we start. to recognize that this is an explanation.

for a lot of the patterns of behavior. that you don't really like but you're. not quite sure how to get control of. them. How does unresolved trauma impact. the way that you deal with stress as an. adult? So, um the body's stress. regulation apparatus which is. physiological. Mhm. It has to do with. the connection between certain uh brain. centers um down to the adrenal gland. which is the stress gland. You might.

say no child is born with stress. regulation. Infants don't know how to. regulate their stresses. Well, neither. do adults. Well, as you say, as you say. in your book, most adults are eight. years old, if that, but I thought that. was pretty generous. This might have. been four, three or four years old. Um, well, stress like other functions. has to. develop so that when something stressful. happens, I know how to face it without.

being overwhelmed. And that depends on the development of. these brain circuits and receptors for. brain chemicals. Now trauma interferes with the. development of the body's stress. regulation. apparatus so that become adults and we. don't know how to handle stress and then. we seek escape. So one of the ways that. people escape from stress is addictive. behaviors. You know, for example, so if. you do if you talk about or talk to. addicts, if you I look at my own. addictive.

behaviors. Even if I go quote unquote. sober for a. while and then I relapse, what usually. happened is that I got stressed and then. I reach for that addictive outlet as a. way of soothing my stress. So that's how. it shows up. But but physiologically it. shows up by a disregulation of the. body's stress regulation apparatus. So. there not just psychological, we're. talking physiology. And you can you've. done the studies in in laboratory. animals where the way the mother handles.

that infant rat pup in the first few. days of life will have an impact on the. adult rat's capacity to handle stress. And if you take the rats, by the way, whose mothers don't handle them as well, and you put them with mothers who do, their brains develop normally. So it's. not a genetic effect. It's what's called. an epigenetic effect. It's the. environment acting on the genes. Which. is why we come back to your original.

point. No human being is damaged goods. No. That the good news is that if you. can recognize that your response to. stress Yeah. and traumatic situations. and overwhelming emotional situations. Yeah. Is something that you can identify. and change. Yeah. That that's what the. opportunity is here in terms of being. able to heal and resolve trauma. Absolutely. And especially if you begin. by recognizing that it's not your fault. There's nothing wrong with you. You.

know, when I think about my husband who. absolutely experienced trauma by having. a dad that was a workaholic. Yeah. And. never around and narcissistic. personality style and lots of drinking. and stress in the marriage. Right. And. his response to stress is to just shut. down. Yeah. The man goes silent and. stoic. And in our marriage, one of the. things that have come up a lot, which. you can direct line to his response to.

his own childhood, is he doesn't really. know what his needs are because they. weren't met. That's right. And for him, it took a long time to call that trauma. from his childhood because he's like, "Well, I had food. My parents were. there. I I know went to school. It's not. like they beat me." I know. And for me, I am the opposite. I'm a reactor. Like. I'm a human volcano. Yeah. And when I.

get disregulated or triggered or upset. or overwhelmed, I'm like, and I and it's. even though I know this. Yeah. And I've. been working on it and I am a completely. different human being. I feel that way. over the last three years. Yeah, I still. erupt. Well, join the club and well well so how. do you personally navigate your daily.

challenges and when you get overwhelmed. by stress? So let me say something about. Chris first if I may. Yes, please. When. he says that I wasn't beaten or we. weren't starving, I had food and. therefore I wasn't. traumatized. Here's what I would say to. him. So listen, Chris, let's take one of. your. kids and let's say you were an. alcoholic, which means that you came. home in different moods all the time and.

the kids didn't couldn't rely on who dad. was going to be for one minute into the. next and your mom was constantly. stressed and you and and and if you were. this way, do you think your kids. wouldn't be hurt by. that? So just plug your kid into the. situation that you're in. You see how. and if one of your kids came to you and. said, "Dad, I I don't like it that. you're drinking and you're behaving this. way or that way and and you're a. workaholic like I never around." Would. you say to your kid, "Well, there's food. on the table. What are you complaining.

about?" You know, but I did. Yeah. No, that happened in our house like 15 years. ago. Okay. And he felt bad and I was an. Oh, okay. Again, more trauma. and more pain passing on to Yeah. our. kids. Yeah. I'm just saying that when. people look at their own childhoods, they kind of minimize. Why do we do. that? Because it was too painful to. accept in the first. place. So that people dissociate and.

they disconnect from their bodies and. their feelings. Now you said that he had. a hard time feeling what he feels. That. that itself is a trauma impact. It's a. protection. It's not a. flaw. It's not a damage. It's an. adaptation. If I was hurting you right. now and you couldn't escape and you. couldn't fight back and you couldn't ask. for. help, then dissociating and not. experiencing your feelings would be your.

only. protection. But then it gets wired into. you and then all your life you go. through not knowing what you feel and. not knowing what your needs are. So. again, it's an adaptation. That's what. I'm saying is that nobody's damaged. goods. These are just adaptations. The. abnormality is not in the individual. It's in the circumstances to which the. individual had to respond that way. So. that his response or yours or mine for. that matter were perfectly normal. responses to abnormal circumstances. I.

say abnormal in a sense circumstances. that did not meet human needs. One of. the things that's coming to mind. is thinking back to my own life and the. moment where I first bumped into your. work and I learned that the seemingly. little things created a lasting impact. Yeah. and that even though I wasn't to. blame for the emotional volatility or.

the emotional. shutdown in my parents when I was. growing up that it impacted me. It was. real and it was my. responsibility to heal and to decide. whether or not I wanted to do the work. to change the way that it impacted me. cuz it did have a massive impact on my. behaviors. Constantly feeling on edge, people pleasing, anxiety, ADHD, drinking.

too much, chasing success as a way to. prove that I was worthy of something and. to make other people happy. Yes, it was. everywhere. Yeah, it honestly just. defined how I ran on default. And I. remember the moment though when I. started to truly accept the fact that. these were all indications of trauma. Yeah. And that if I wanted my life to. feel different. Yeah. That I needed to. lean into everything that you're saying.

Yeah. And I felt a lot of conflict about. that moment because I felt guilty for. identifying it that way because I know. my parents were just doing the best that. they did. They did. And that there was a. lot that I didn't remember. Yeah. And I'm wondering if you could just talk. to the person who's listening who is. having that awakening for the first time. where they're really accepting.

that some of the behaviors and the. negative selft talk and the anxiety. that this is a result of experiences. that you had as a child where you were. not given the things that you needed. Mel there's a lot in what you said. Okay. F said you you behaved that way by. default. There's a difference between. default and fault. Okay, default you didn't know you were. doing it. You didn't know any better. You were just following patterns that. were programmed into you. But it's not.

your fault. Okay, there's a huge. difference. Important. distinction. Number one. Number. two, it's never the child's job to make. the parents happy or to create peace in. the family. And a child invariably. fails, which instills a huge sense of. guilt and. inadequacy for not having fulfilled a. task that never ought to be in yours, never should have been yours in the. first place. It's a reversal of roles. cuz whose job it is to hold who.

emotionally to create. peace. And so when a child is forced. into that. position again as an adaptation to. maintain a relationship with the. parents, she's given an impossible task. that she's bound to fail at and bound to. feel shame over it. Which means that any. shame and guilt that you feel is. completely undeserved. When we start to. noticing these patterns, we can start. asking ourselves. questions. But it depends on how we ask.

them. So I could say why am I behaving. this. way or is that a question? No, it's an indictment. It's an. indictment. But I said hm I wonder why. I'm behaving that way. So we need to. begin to develop. that compassionate curiosity towards the. self where we start looking not to why. did I not this indictment as you say but. genuine. curiosity and from that perspective.

everything pretty much everything. anybody thinks is wrong with them is. actually begins as an. adaptation or it begins as a failure of. development because the conditions for. development were not adequate. And so then we can. understand now it's not a question of. being. victims. That's the last thing we want. to do is to uh foster victim mentality. They did this to me and now I can't help. it. No, that happened and it's your.

responsibility and it's your capacity to. change that now. So you have to drop the. victim mode altogether. But that doesn't. mean that we don't recognize what. happened. M so to say that stuff. happened to you and I get the sense that. something big happened that you haven't. articulated yet but something big. happened to you at some point. Um to. recognize that is not to say that you're. a victim. It's just to say that whatever. happened had certain impacts and. fostered certain adaptations on your. part that made you behave and undermine.

your development in certain way. Oh, I'll share it with you. When I was in. the fourth grade, I woke up in the. middle of the night on a family vacation. and an older kid was on top of me. Okay. All right. And that had. massive implications on my life. When. were we? Uh I was fourth grade. Yeah. And I was sound asleep. So I was in a. safe space. Wake up to an older kid on. top of me who was fondling me. Okay.

And in the scheme of things that can. happen, it was here I go to dismissing. it. You're looking at me. You're like, "No, no, no. Don't go there." Okay. Okay. But I like It's almost like I'm. shaming myself for having trauma about. this. No. Can I unpack this for you a. little bit? Sure. Are you open to it? Oh, I'm so open to it. Yeah. Okay. Here's a question I'm going to ask you. Okay. How did you feel when this. happened? I felt very confused and scared.

Confused and scared. Good enough. Who. did you speak to about it? No one. Okay. Now, if something like this. happened to one of your. daughters in grade was it grade four? Yeah. Okay. If one of these things. happened to um Sawyer or Kendall in. grade four. And if they didn't talk to. you, how would you explain that? I'd. feel How would I explain it? I would. explain it. And I'm about to go. intellectual. I personally as the mother.

would feel heartbroken. I understand how. you'd feel, but really I'm not asking. how you feel. I'm asking how you'd. explain it. Why wasn't my daughter. talking to me about feeling scared and. confused and. violated? Why? Because she didn't feel. safe talking to me. That's the. trauma. The trauma began before that. happened. Cuz if you had been able to. talk to your parents and they would have. said, "This is awful. You must feel. terrible. Come here, let me hold you and.

let's deal with the situation. So the. trauma is not only in what happened is. that you were so alone when it happened. And that aloneeness was yours before. this traumatic event ever occurred. As a. matter of fact, abusers can tell with. almost laserike accuracy who's defended. and protected and who's not, who can be. victimized and who cannot. So that your. primary traumatic event was not this. event. Not that this wasn't traumatic,

of course it was hugely traumatic, but. it became hugely traumatic cuz you were. alone and that sense of lack of. safety and and and lack of protection. Furthermore, you may not even have. wanted to bother your parents cuz. already they're already stressed enough. already. You were protecting them. That's the primary traumatic situation. I've never looked at it like that. Yeah. Do you see that when I Oh, a thousand%. And I can also see when I think about.

experiences that friends have shared. with me where they did say something. Yeah. And then there was denial. There's. dismissal in or dismissal or we're not. going to tell anybody or this stays. within us. Yeah. Or even if they then go. after the person and confront it, it. blows up and somehow you're to blame. And so I can see how That's right. And. and and of course when you shove it. down, you then think you've done. something wrong. And that was the other. thing that happened for me is that I.

felt like I had done something wrong. That's one of the impacts of trauma is. that the shame based view of the self. people start blaming themselves that. somehow you invited it or deserved it or. you didn't fight back hard enough. or which if you didn't was also self-p. protection. Well, I think that was one of the. original moments that at least that I. remember where I literally left my body. and disassociated which was a defense. Yes. So again, it's an adaptation. So.

that's what I would say about that. incident. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. But again, the problem is in the. environment in in a lack of being held. and being seen. So there's nothing and. then in your in your initial impulse. when you began a narrative about how. it's not as bad as what you know. Right. Right. Right. Would you say that to your. your great. if your daughter comes to you and says. you it's not so bad. Think of all the. kids that are you know being beaten or. you know so that lack of self-compassion.

is one of the ways that trauma shows up. And that's why I'm saying the healing. needs to begin with some compassionate. curiosity towards the self. not why but. why. It's a totally different. conversation. And then I can also see and take. responsibility and have a lot of. compassion for how my volatility. emotionally. Absolutely. Just pass that on to my. daughters. Absolutely. And so there are. things that happened to them that in the.

time they didn't feel comfortable coming. to me. Yeah. Yeah. Because the exact. same thing. Exactly. And you know, it it. of course just makes me. it it makes. me sad that I didn't know this sooner. Yeah. But I feel very grateful for your. work because I know it now.

and so do our children and so does my. husband. And that knowledge gives you. the the ability to truly address the. things that happened and the response. that happened in your body. Yeah. And. how that has created these default. patterns and this inability to manage. stress or emotion or conflict. Yeah. in. a way that. is healthy and that keeps you connected.

to yourself instead of constantly. abandoning yourself and feeling. disappointed in yourself and shaming. yourself. And so while I can reflect on. that with a lot of sadness and grief. Yeah. and regret. Yeah. I feel more. empowered honestly. Well, that's the. whole point about what's possible. That's the whole point is that we all. want to be free, but as long as we're. running on default mode and we're just. reacting to stuff, there's no freedom in. it. We're actually like puppets on a.

string. And if you remember Pinocchio, you know, when he becomes a real boy, he. says how silly, how foolish I was when I. was a puppet where we're all puppets in. that sense. As long as these traumatic. impacts are running our lives, we're. puppets on a string and those strings. are unconscious. So it's a whole thing. about becoming really free and that real. freedom looks at depends on looking at. how it was and getting in touch with our. capacity to take responsibility now you. know. So what really the work is for all.

of us is how to become free so we can be. in the present moment connected to. ourselves. The great trauma psychologist. Peter Lavine says no longer living under. the tyranny of the past. and it's totally available. It's totally. possible. It is totally possible. Yeah. And it's possible for you. It's possible. for your children. It's possible for. anybody that you know and love. It's. possible for your parents if they accept. the invitation to look at themselves if. they if they choose it. Yeah. Yes. What. is the first step? Is it asking the.

question like why? Like just being. curious with a level of compassion like. why am I like this? Because if I reflect. on your. question that's what happened for me. I. started to say to myself it's no longer. tolerable for me to operate like this. I. don't want to be this person. I don't. want to feel like this. I don't want to. feel disconnected from other people. I. don't want to have this level of anger. inside me. So that's actually the first. step is to recognize one's suffering.

rather than taking it for granted which. incidentally is the Buddha's first. teaching is that life is duka like is. life is brings suffering you know and. then the second question is okay. why you know so it does begin with. recognizing the suffering rather than. denying it and running away from it and. there's many ways to run away from our. pain. um through certain behaviors and. addictions and the point is stop running.

from your. pain. Accept that it's there and be. curious about it without blaming. yourself for it. So those are the first. steps and then you ask for help. I mean. the if help is available the natural. we're born seeking help. You've never. you've never met a one-year-old in one. day old infant who doesn't know ask for. help. But let me ask you a question. How easy. it has been going back for you to ask. for help.

You mean if I think about when I was in. fourth grade um then and and and even. decades later, are you are can you ask. for help or is that a pro challenge for. you? Well, I ask for a lot of help now. No, I don't mean now. I mean I mean I. mean before your transformation. Absolutely. Like like when you just said. that Yeah. I had this epiphany. Yeah. That I've always felt like I got to do. it myself. Exactly. I've always felt. like it's on me. I've always felt like I.

just I'll just take this on. I'll just. do this. Like, which was an adaptation. cuz there was no help available. But you were, you know what's. interesting? So, sorry. Go ahead. Is you. just said there's no help available and. I felt this knee-jerk need. Yeah. To. protect your parents. Yes. I. understand. Because I do know like I I. mean I know my mom well enough to know. that she would have picked up a shovel. and probably clocked the kid into next. week. Like I Yeah. Yeah. That's not what. you needed your mother to do. You needed.

your mother to say, "Oh gee, that's. awful. Come here. Let's talk about it.". You weren't born not knowing how to ask. for help. You were born with a supreme. capacity to ask for help. I mean as we know any infant knows how. to ask for help. So something educates. educates it out of us. Something compels. us to suppress our capac capacity to. seek help. So if the first step is. recognizing our suffering and the second.

step is getting curious about it. Then. the third step is I need some help here. It's beautiful. Well, it's only the simple truth. It is so simple when you lay it out like. that. Yeah. And it's also so freeing. Yeah. One of the things that you write. about that I think is so important that. I would love to have you explain is this. idea that we are naturally wired and. have a fundamental need for joyfulness,

playfulness, creativity, and that we. sacrifice that. Can you talk more about. that? Well, so there's. um a book written by a paliative care. nurse in Australia and I used to work in. paliative care and it's called the top. five regrets of dying people and she's. talking to people who died before their. time you know from cancer usually. One. of the regrets is is that they worked. too hard they didn't play enough.

Now playfulness is built into our brains. all mammals play. Bear cubs play, lion. cubs play, uh, puppies, kittens, they. all play. We're wired for play. Why? Because play is essential for a number. of things. One is essential for brain. development. It's much more important. for brain development than academic. learning. I'm talking about. scientifically, you know, brain. physiologically. So play is important. Play is also important to form.

relationships cuz in play you can kind. of rough house a bit but you're not. actually being. enemies. So you're making friends that. way. So play is essential with the Pooh. which is one of my all-time favorite. books. Why is it one of your all-time. favorite books? Well, well, it's so. playful and uh but at the very end, and. I know you're married to Chris Robbins, which is Christopher Robin, you know, I. mean, anyway, there's a passage at the.

end of the book, W the Pooh, where. Christopher, the the boy, by the way, him and his father had a terrible. relationship, which is a whole other. issue. I'm talking about the real. Christopher Robin. Um, but the fictional. Christopher Robin is now growing up and. he has to go to school, which means he. won't be able to play with his animals. anymore. And he's trying to explain this. to these animals, including Winnie the. Bear. And the book ends with this. statement that I'll paraphrase where it.

says that they go off walking together. hand in hand. And the book ends with, "But whatever they do and wherever they. go in the ent in the enchanted forest, a. little boy and his bear will always be. playing together." And that passage as. an adult would bring me to. tears. because as a kid, as an infant, I wasn't. played with. My mother was way too. terrorized and depressed to play with. me. And and kids peekab-boo. Play starts.

so early. It's essential for our mental. health. It's essential for our brain. development. So these poor people who. were looking back on their lives and. saying, "I wish I had played more." Play. is just essential. And I have to say. that one of the things that has kept our. marriage going 55 years now is that we. play so well together and we're just. playing all the time when we're not. fighting, which which by the way is long. gone. Not long gone, but gone. Um, so,

um, play is play is just essential. And. you weren't played with, so did you play. with your kids? It's interesting. I have. two brothers. They're both intuitively. playful with young kids. They just know. how to be with them, how to pretend, how. to just get into their space. I watch. them and I don't know how the hell they. do it cuz I didn't know how to play with. my kids. Um, not really. I I I I kind of. faked it. But I I always kept waiting.

waiting for them to develop minds that I. could engage with. verbally cuz that on that verbal level. I'm very comfortable. On the play level, I wasn't. I was rather. stiff. I wish I was a grandfather. I'm. not yet because I'd learn how to play. I'd let that infant teach me how to. play. But no, I didn't know how to play. I didn't know how to play. I I really lacked that because it wasn't. given to me when I was small. My. brothers had it now. They grew up under.

a very different circumstances. They. didn't have the same parents, you know, in the way we talked about it today. So, they know how to play. I don't But kids, I mean, well, a very surprising insight. for me as I've been working to resolve. Yeah. issues from my past is noticing. that I'm a very warm person. Oh, but I'm. not affectionate. Uhhuh. And it's this. epiphany. of going in more for the hug, being more.

physical in terms of embracing my kids. Mhm. And it's something that I. definitely did not receive. And I come. from a long line of farmers and hard. workers. Yeah. and pull up your, you. know, big girl panties and let's move. on. And that's the way that my mom is, even though she's warm and amazing and. loving, but not physically embracing.

And so, I really relate to that because. it's something as an adult that I. recognize that I truly want to change. Yeah. And it's takes effort. It takes. effort for me to go, "Oh, I noticed I'm. just standing here. I got to put my arm. around." Just gone to five. That's true. And then hug somebody. Um. the um I used to be hug phobic. Really? And I embraced you when you walked in. Yeah, you did. But I honest to God when. people in a room would start hugging. each other, I'd stand there like this.

And is that a response? It's a response. to really not being held. And it's also. um a kind of a protective. shell. I don't want to make myself that. vulnerable. I don't want to open up. Yeah. What might be some surprising. adult. behaviors that are an indication of. unresolved trauma from your childhood? Well, sometimes.

it's attributes and behaviors that the. world respects you for. So great success can sometimes be an. outcome of childhood trauma cuz you're. working so hard to prove something to. the world. Like I talked about my own. workism and and you know cuz I had to. prove that I was important. Now that. made me a very successful respected. physician from the outside and the. inside different story and in my family.

a different situation altogether. um people who are very. attractive and who put a lot of effort. into being very attractive, the world. admires them, but it's very often, like. I said before, they're trying to attract. the attention they should that should. have been their birthright and they. don't feel good. if they're not attractive. And you see. this. uh as people age, this desperation to.

keep looking. young because um they're not acceptable. the way they are. So it sometimes it. shows up in success in what the world. considers success and other ways like. you talked about kind of not being the. kind of person that is open to hugging. or my husband shuts down. Well, my. response to. um a sense. of disruption in my relationship with my. wife is to shut down. So, I just, you.

know, go sullen and uh. non-communicative. I mean, I talk about. that in the first chapter of the book. This is, you know, I I arrive home from a speaking trip. and she texts me that she hasn't lived. home yet to pick me up from the airplane. and I go into a sullen withdrawal stage. because I'm reliving my abandonment. unconsciously, but I don't realize it. And when I saw my mother again after. that five or 6 week separation, I didn't. even look at her for several days, which.

is the typical response of the child. because the child's brain says you were. so hurt when you were abandoned that you. will not open yourself up again. So your. husband is exhibiting the same thing. that that has been very dominant problem. in my relationship in my marriage is my. tendency to shut down. uh in response to any sense of hurt even. if the hurt has nothing to do with the. present moment but it's a re triggering.

of some old wound. You're so amazing. What are your parting. words? You know what comes up for me is that. beautiful movie um with Robin Williams. and uh Matt Damon where Goodwill. Hunting. Goodwill Hunting here in. Boston. Yeah, that's right. where the. psychologist Robin Williams grabs this. very dysfunctional, disregulated client paid by Matt Damon.

and he says, "It's not your. fault." We can only get that. That's the. biggest takeaway I would say. Just get. it. It's not your fault, but there's. reason for it. It can be worked through. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. for being here, for sharing all of your. wisdom and your research and for not. only validating Mhm. our experience, but.

giving us three simple things we can do. to reconnect with ourselves and truly. take our power back. You're amazing. My pleasure. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. And for you on. YouTube, I just wanted to thank you for. watching all the way to the end, for. choosing to watch something that is so. important to your happiness, to your. health, and for sharing this. And I also. want to thank you for hitting subscribe. One of my goals is that 50% of the. people that watch this uh YouTube.

channel that are subscribers to the. channel because it really supports our. team and it tells me that you love this. content and it helps us continue to. bring it to you. And I know you're. thinking, "Oh my gosh, this was so. incredible. What should I watch next? This is the video that you should watch. next. You're going to love it and I'm. going to be waiting for you when you hit. play.