The Power of Reinvention: Switching Things Up at Any Age

Today on the Mel Robbins podcast, the one  and only aa Garton is here. You know her. as the barefoot contessa. She's spent four  decades teaching millions of us how to cook. Do what you think is fun. If it's fun,  you'll be really good at it. But today, you're getting the secret recipe to her  success and reinvention. This is what I. want to do. And if somebody wants to try and stop  me, knock yourself out. It's not going to happen.

It is such an honor to meet you. It's so nice  to meet you, too. I have cooked so many of your. recipes. Have you? How wonderful. Have I? Oh  my gosh, your books are dogeared and bind and. stained as every good cookbook should be. I  love when I see a cookbook that that looks. like it's been dipped in vinegaret, then I know  it's been used. It has definitely been used. Um,

I'm so excited to have a chance to sit down with  you because you are such a great storyteller. You. have a remarkable life and I also know whether  you think this or not, you have a lot of wisdom. to share. Oh, I hope so. For sure. For sure.  Thanks, Mel. I'd love to start by just asking. you if the person takes everything to heart that  we're about to talk about, what might change about. life? I find that the the the really scary things  I've done have been the making of my life. And so,

it's really worth doing because otherwise I  think we all um follow where our lives go, but we don't make deliberate decisions. And  when you make a deliberate decision, it's in. in the furtherance of what you love to do and it's  really important to do. Otherwise, you're not in. control. And I think having some agency with your  life is so important. I agree with you. And there.

was something about what you just said that I want  to make sure I highlight because already you're. dropping takeaways. And that is you said it's  being deliberate in furtherance of what you love. doing. Mhm. And that brings me to kind of where  the story begins, at least in your blockbuster. bestseller, Be Ready When the Luck Happens. Your  memoir is fantastic, by the way. Thank you, ma'am. My mother-in-law bought it for me cuz she knows  that I'm such an enormous fan of yours. And I read.

it furiously one rainy afternoon in Vermont. And I  love where the story in the memoir begins because. you're 30 years old. And never in a million years  would I have thought you worked for the office. of management and budget at the White House. And  nuclear energy policy. Don't forget that. Nuclear. is that? What? I don't know. You tell me. I have  no idea what nuclear energy policy is. And on page.

four, you write, "There has to be something more  fun than this. The only good thing about having a. low threshold for boredom is that I've always  been willing to take crazy risks just to get. out of that miserable state. In my bureaucratic  job, I was just part of the larger process, but. I wanted to be the process, to do my own thing,  either in real estate or in the food business,

and for better or for worse, to make my own  decisions and mistakes. I'd love for you to. put us right at that scene where you're 30 years  old and you're kind of bored with your job because. I think we've all had that moment, but what you do  in that moment is what determines your life. Well, I was sitting in my office and I I had been at  Office of Management and Budget um for four years. at that point and I was feeling like I work  really hard. Sometimes we'd pull all-nighters.

to make sure what the president needed for his  budget or for some legislation was taken care of, but literally I felt like nothing had happened and  nothing changed. And so why am I working so hard. at something when nothing's happening? And that  was in the 1970s. And so I was reading the news, the New York Times, and I I just happened for the  first time in my life see the business opportunity. section where people advertise like dry cleaners  and head shops and coffee shops and um and I I saw.

this small ad for business for sale and it was a  specialy food store in a place I'd never been and. I thought, "God, that sounds like fun." That was  the moment. That was the moment. Yeah. I thought. this just that just sounds like more fun than  what I'm doing here. And so I went home that night. and I said to Jeffrey, I just really my my job's  boring. It's not I don't feel like I do anything. I just I work really hard. You have a sense that  what you're doing is going to the president so. it's not it doesn't just evaporate into the into  the air, but nothing really happens. And I want.

something to happen and I'm never going to be  the head of this organization. They are never. going to choose a girl to be the head of OM. So,  what am I doing here? And he said to me the most. important thing, he said, "Do what you think is  fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it.". And I thought that's a really, really important  thing to remember that whatever you do without. thinking about it just because you love doing it.  What did you do when you were 10? And and what.

did you think was fun organizing the kids in the  neighborhood? Do that because it's before we had. all those shoulds. I should be a lawyer. I should  be a doctor. this is what I just feel like doing. And so I said, "Well, I saw this ad for a business  for sale in his food store. I've never been in the. food business." And he said, "Let's go take a  look at it." Wow. And only recently did he tell. me. He thought he was humoring me. He thought,  "Oh, let's just go look at it. This is never. going to happen." And then that the next weekend  we drove up to West Hampton. And you'd never been.

there? Never been to West Hampton before. It was  April. And Westampton in April, it's a beach town. There's nothing going on. I mean, there's like  tumble weed down the middle of the street. And. there was this tiny little store. It was 400 ft  and it was open. And I walked in and they were. baking chocolate chip cookies. And I thought,  "Okay, this is where I want to be. I don't know. anything about it, but I'm going to figure it  out." What was it about that moment when you.

walked in? Was it a feeling? It just felt good. It  felt like um it was a business I could understand. It smelled good. It looked good. Um it felt  like instead of high heels and silk blouses, I could work in sneakers and blue jeans. And it  just felt like I could create something. Now, I just want to set the table though for a second.  I I just realized I made a pun there, but I didn't. mean to do that. You live in Washington DC. Yeah.  This is what, like a four or five hour drive?

5 hour drive at least. Yeah. You've never been  there? Yeah. You've never owned a business. Yeah. You've never owned a food store. I've never had an  employee before. Never had an employee before. And. your husband humors you to go take a look cuz  maybe it'll shut you up and you'll see. Like. I don't know. Like just to be nice, you know? I  think he didn't think he was going to shut me up, but he thought I was starting the process to try  and figure out what was next, never realizing this. was next. Wow. Okay. I want to stop right there  because one of the things that I love about the.

story is that a lot of us have these moments.  In fact, I'm going to argue that most of us have. these kind of moments if we're paying attention  almost every day. Actually, John Gisham calls. these moments the golden moment. It's a moment  that you never see coming, but a light goes. off inside you. And if you follow it, it forever  changes the trajectory of your life. Exactly. And.

so you have this moment where if you stopped and  thought about it, you would have talked yourself. out of it in a nancond, but you followed it. And  then you get there and something awakens, but. it still doesn't seem rational. Well, it doesn't  have to be rational. it just has to be I'm leaving. something I don't like and I'm going towards  something that sounds like it would be really. fun to do. And the difference was I was working in  the government on budgets that were literally the.

20 billion budgets which at the time was a lot.  Um it's still a lot but it was a particularly. lot then to something that was like a $100 but  it was my $100. and I felt um that I it would. be really exciting to learn this business and to  figure it out and going back was not an option. Wow. I I I'm having a hard time picturing you at  the office of management and budget because ever.

since I followed you, I've seen you cooking and so  I never knew this version of you. I've only known. the barefoot contestant version of you. There's  not much difference. I think cooking is science. And when I was a kid, I was a science nerd. I  loved science. And I think the difference between. nuclear energy policy and um having a specialty  food store is not that big a difference because. they're all experimentation. It's all um if you're  if you study science, you're testing things. Um.

if you're cooking, you're testing things, but  instead of ending up with like gibberelic acid, you end up with roast chicken. So, which would  you rather have? Definitely the roast chicken. Uh, and a lot of your recipes with roast chicken have  a little vinegar in them, so it has a little acid. Yes, I actually am a big fan of your cooking. Um,  and there is another thing that you just said, and that is that a lot of us opt out because we  think what we're doing now doesn't qualify us. for what we would like to be doing. And if you're  willing to walk toward the thing that you would.

have fun at, you can figure it out. and you will  quickly realize that everything that you've ever. done leads you somewhere and prepares you in  ways you don't even realize. I actually didn't. know that until I wrote the memoir. I actually  thought everything I did that was outrageous and. totally different um was something completely  new. And only when I wrote the memoir did I. realize that when I was in Washington, because I  didn't find my job that exciting, I taught myself.

how to cook. I would buy old houses and renovate  them and sell them. So, I'd go to the bank and. negotiate loans. I would work on renovations. I  taught myself how to do that. I went to business. school at night when I was when I was working at  the White House. I mean, I did a lot of things. for the fun of it. And then when I looked  back, I thought I knew nothing. But in fact, I knew more than I gave myself credit for. And it  took until 2024 for me to actually realize that.

Wow. It helped connect the dots. It connected the  dots. And it also made me realize that what I was. doing with the store was everything that I love to  do. It was um borrowing money and and investing. It was um building things, building a new store.  It was cooking. It was the first time that my job. actually included everything that I love to do.  Well, it wasn't easy, though. So, I would love to. go from that moment where you walked in and you're  like, "Oh my gosh." to what it was actually like.

because you then bought it. I did buy it and I I  did one thing that was smart. I bought it, but I. made a deal with the seller that she would stay  for a month and teach me what I need to know cuz. I didn't know anything. I didn't know how to cash  out a register. I didn't know how to slice smoke. salmon. I could bake 12 brownies for my friends,  but I didn't know how to bake a thousand brownies. Was there any moment where you had like a pit in  your stomach and you realized, what have I done?

I think after the first week I said to Jeffrey,  "This is the stupidest thing I've ever done in. my life." Well, one of my favorite stories that  I think will shock the person listening is again, you're living in Washington DC. You have bought  this storefront that is four or five hours away. in a summer community that you've never been  to. And so you guys get a rental and even that. doesn't go according to plan. That was crazy.  Um, so we we decided that we needed to have a. I needed a place to live while I'm there and  Trevy was going to come on the weekends. So,

um, we rented a house and then when I went to the  house right before Memorial Day to move in, there. was a family living there. I was like, "Excuse me,  this is my rental." They said, "No, it's ours.". And it turns out that the owner of the house had  rented it twice. And you know, the weekend before. Memorial Day, you can't find a rental anywhere.  So, we'd actually decided, I said to them, "Okay,

well, I'm not going to be here very much cuz I'm  running a specialy food store and my husband lives. in Washington. So, maybe we could just rent it  together." So, I moved my stuff into one of the. bedrooms and went to the store and we rented that  house together and they were absolutely adorable, lovely people. That's incredible. Isn't that  crazy? It's crazy. Well, because one of the things. that I also admire about you is you have this if  there's a will, there's a way. I'm going to figure. this out. Yeah. And a lot of us would show up at a  rental that's already full and see that as a sign.

that things aren't going to happen. But you have  this unbelievable ability to tinker and figure it. out. I have to say, I think Jeffrey taught me  this. If there are two things you can't decide. which one to do, his initial reaction is, let's  figure out how to do both of them. Because I think. a lot of stress comes from who gets to decide.  Yeah. I think a lot of relationships fall apart. on that is who gets to decide. How about we don't  decide? How about we do everything? Oh, that's a. great life philosophy. It is, isn't it? Well, one  of the things that you figured out in the early.

days is just how hard it is to do this. And I love  the story of you falling asleep underneath the. counter and driving the station wagon. So, can you  share with, you know, the person listening some of. the early days what it actually took? Well, it is  a very hard business. I loved every minute of it, but I'm not minimizing how physically hard it  is. So, I would get to the store at 5:00 in. the morning and I would make sure everything was  organized for the chef and the front of the house.

We would open at eight or nine o'clock in the  morning and we would go all day. And then at 6:00, the first weekend particularly, we closed the  store at maybe 6:00 on Friday of Memorial Day. weekend, there wasn't anything left in the store.  I mean, nothing. We really weren't prepared for. the long weekend. And I I just said to the woman  who had sold it to me, "What are we going to do?". She said, "No problem. We're going to go to the  grocery store and we're going to buy flour and.

sugar and chocolate and we're going to buy chicken  and we're going to make chicken salad and we're. going to make chocolate cake and we're just and  we stayed all night and cooked and baked and then. we just basically stayed and opened the store the  next day and we did it again the day after that. And by now you're like working on nervous energy.  But I loved doing it and it was fun and it was. engaging and it was challenging. Yeah. Uh, and I  said to myself, I'm going to run the store exactly. the way the seller ran it, and I'm going to figure  out how to do it differently over the winter when.

it's closed. And that's what I did. There was a  moment though where your husband turned to you. and said, "I don't think you're going to make it  here." That was the first weekend. It was actually. before I bought the store on Thursday of Memorial  Day weekend. Thursday before Memorial Day weekend. I didn't know what Memorial Day weekend in the  Hamptons was. I came from Washington. So I bought. it on Thursday and the the seller whose name was  Diana Estrada, who was wonderful, great teacher,

um said, "I'm going to show you how to cash out  the register." And there was $87 in the register. for the entire day. And that was gross before he  paid the rent to the employees. And Jeffrey had. a calculator and he multiplied 87 times the  number of days in the summer. And he said, "I don't think you're going to make it here." What  we didn't know is Friday of Memorial Day weekend. was a completely different story. And that's when  on Friday at the end of the day, we were cleaned. out. Then I thought, "Oh, wait. There might be  something here. There was definitely something.

there." And you were just getting started. You  know, I've also heard you talk about the fact that. when you take on new challenges, you're willing  to do it working scared. Yeah. What does that. mean? I think that we stop ourselves because we  think, you know, if you're standing on the side of. the pond and you're trying to decide whether you  should jump in the pond, there might be fish in. there. It might be cold. It might be really deep.  You don't know what you're getting into. And you.

can't decide what to do when you're standing on  the side of the pond. You got to jump in the pond, splash around, see what it is, and figure out  what to do about it. And maybe while you're in. that pond, you can look over there and go, "Oh,  that's actually a really interesting place to. go that you would never have seen if you weren't  in the pond." So, I think you just I I feel like. you you just need to jump in the pond. We talk  ourselves out of so many things because we think, well, I can't possibly know everything and what  am I going to do if something unexpected comes.

along? You know what? You'll figure it out. And  I actually came across an expression that I just. adore that's really changed me. It was from JP  Morgan. So, a friend of mine told me this. Go as. far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll  be able to see farther. You don't need to know the. answer to every question that you have. You just  need to figure out as far as you can see. Make the. decisions that are the best decisions, and when  you get there, you'll be able to see more. I love. it. Isn't that a great expression? It's beautiful  because you don't need to know where you're going.

You just need to know what you're going to do  today and tomorrow. That's true. And then as. you move forward, what you see changes. Changes.  Yeah. You don't have because you we I I've wasted. decades of my life standing there thinking, "Okay,  I hate being a lawyer. What's my calling?" You. don't need to know. You don't need to know. Yeah.  You just need to know that in those moments where. you're sitting there at a budget desk doing  nuclear policy or you're commuting to a a big.

law firm and you feel the just stomach clenching  as you go into the office building that that's. a sign that you don't need to know the bigger  picture. You need to know that this is not for you. anymore. And actually one of the things I find is  I never figure out where I'm going. I just figure. out what I'm going to do today. I do the best job  I can and before I I'm done for the day, I figure. out what I'm going to do tomorrow. I start the  day with purpose. I don't start the day thinking, okay, what should I do today? I start the day with  purpose and I end the day with what I'm going to.

do the next day and see where it goes. And it's  I think it's so much better in the long run to. be open to whatever comes along rather than say I  want to get from here to being a lawyer. Yeah. Cuz. you you might miss something along the way that  would have been more interesting. You have this. other saying that I absolutely love. If it's not  fun, it's not done. I think I borrowed that from. somebody. I don't know who, but it's true. And  it doesn't mean everything in my life is fun. It just means it's either fun on its on its own or  it's in the furtherance of fun. So like I think in.

the food business um I love the creativity of it  and I love the challenge of it. But if you don't. take care of business, you don't get to do the  fun stuff. That's true. So I think that the I. find the business interesting and challenging  but it's all in the furtherance of being able. to do something creative and fun. Uh that's very  important. I want to make sure I put a highlighter. on that because if you reframe the things you  hate doing as I am doing this because it's in.

furtherance yeah of the thing I love doing. Now  you've just given meaning to the things you hate. doing. We do that here all the time. Actually,  you're making me think about a meeting we had. this morning where we had an episode dropping  this morning and at 7:53 in the morning, we were arguing over this like super dumb detail  on social media about whether or not the video.

needed a thumbnail uploaded or embedded and the  title. And we're just like da da da. And it was. not fun. But it's in furtherance in furtherance  of it. Yes. Of the impact we want to make. And I. love that reframing. You're a genius. Oh, I'm just  so aren't I amazing. You are amazing. And it's not. just the recipes that you're cooking up. You're  giving us a a recipe for a different mindset and.

a different approach that opens up possibility in  your life. I think too as a woman I think things. have changed since I was at in the government  but I don't think it's changed completely and. I decided that I I said earlier that somebody was  never going to choose me probably a man was never. going to choose me to be the head of OM which  which was why bother working so hard for something. that I'm never going to succeed at and I thought  I need an alternate track that's mine where the.

only thing that will limit me is my own talent  and my own drive and um I think I've done that. which is really great. You've definitely done that  and the piece not to miss as you're listening is. recognizing that ultimately it's on you. It's on  you. The Mel Robbins podcast is proudly sponsored. by Amica Insurance, our exclusive auto, home and  life insurance partner. There's a saying you've.

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about in this incredible memoir, Be Ready When  the Luck Happens, about your gold necklace. Oh, my gold necklace. I still have it. When I  was first running the store the first summer, um I was 30 years old and the woman who  sold it to me was teaching me how to run. the store and customers would come in and they  go, "Do this, get me that." And they were they. were on my case all the time. And I was like,  I own this store. Well, why are they treating. me like this? I didn't like that they treated my  employees like that either. But Diana said to me,

she said, you need to wear some jewelry and  they'll know that you own the store. So, I walked across the street to a jewelry store and  I bought what I thought was the gaudiest, biggest. gold necklace I've ever seen in my life, and I put  it on and I walked into the store and people said, "Oh, is this your store?" I thought it was so  interesting to nonverbally change my relationship. with the customers. We can change the conversation  by changing ourselves. We don't always have to. change the other person. And that that's what  happened with with the customers. I wanted them.

change the conversation with them and I changed  something I did and it was very effective. There. was another thing that you noticed because you  know you're jumping in the pond and splashing. around and in the beginning you started making  all kinds of fancy food and it didn't sell and. it gave you this epiphany about what people  actually wanted which has totally informed. all of my cookbooks. Yes. So in the beginning  I thought it was a specialy food store. It was.

a fancy area. It was the Hamptons and I'm going  to make really fancy food. So I started making. um ve with morels's and I was making I I remember  taking a huge platter and putting I wanted to put. roast chicken on it big white platter fresh herbs  all over the place and it didn't sell. Then I was. like what am I doing wrong? And I took that  big platter and I ca went back in the kitchen. and I took the the chickens off the big gorgeous  platter with the fabulous fresh herbs and put them.

in little red and white check um you know those  picnic basket things like you well like you would. get um French fries in and I just lined them up  on the on the counter and they sold in 10 minutes. and I thought oh people have elegant taste but  they don't want fancy food at home. They want to. go out for for something fancy, but at home they  want roast chicken. They want lobster salad. They. want like simple earthy things. Yeah. Just by  experimenting. That's my scientific background.

I would put out five things and see which which  one people wanted. And you never know what it is, but you have to just keep trying. I'll tell I'll  tell you a story. When I moved to um East Hampton, I got these I had them made actually these  huge tables. I wanted the pastry section. to be on tables like a like a vineie dessert  table. It wasn't behind refrigerated glass. It. was out and it was open. And there I had the the  cabinet maker put drawers in the front of those.

uh tables so that I could put things in while  people are waiting to have their chocolate cake. boxed up. They could um they're just standing  there with nothing to do. I thought, "Oh, it's a great opportunity to merchandise something  to them." So, I put in little packages of cookies, they didn't sell. I put in um uh packages of  muffins, they didn't sell. I Every week I'd. put in something else to see what would sell. And  not none of it sold. I put in coffee, it didn't.

sell. And then one time I ordered a lot of granola  and it just flew out of the store. And I thought, isn't that interesting? I would never have chosen  granola as being the thing that would sell there. But I think when people are buying something um  kind of a little decadent like a chocolate cake, they say, "Oh, I'll have something healthy like  granola." And for the rest of the time that I. had the store, we had granola in those in those  drawers. But it's it's all a science experiment. And you never know what the answer is going to be.  If you decide in advance that you think you know.

what the answer is, you're wrong. I've got a very  funny story to tell you actually about this same. thing and experimenting. So, um I I I it's funny.  I feel a little like shy about telling you this. story, but I was uh a public defender in New York  City uh after law school, and I love that job. And. then my husband um I blame everything on poor  Chris Robbins. Uh my husband gets into business.

school up here in Boston and also gets a job while  he's going to business school. So, I have to leave. this job I love. And the only job I could find was  working for a large law firm, which I hated. The. exact opposite of being a public defender in New  York City. And so I started thinking to myself, I hate this job, but I need the money. Um, what  have I always thought I wanted to do? And I was. such a fan of yours. And in particular, I loved  the way you displayed things. Oh, thank you.

and the different tiered like it just looked so no  I only saw the photos for crying out loud and so I. was an admirer from afar and I thought you know  what I'm going to do I've always wanted to own. a bakery I've always wanted to own a bakery like  barefoot Contessa because it looks so incredible. story and wait till you hear this so I get a  job on the weekends where working at a bakery. outside of Boston it's it wasn't it didn't last  long because let me tell you something. This is.

why it's important to jump in. This is why it's  important to notice what you're drawn toward. This is why it's important to experiment. So, I  decide I'm going to get a job working at a bakery. on the weekends and that way I can kind of learn  the business behind the scenes and experiment. Let me tell you, it took exactly 6 hours on my  first Saturday, showing up at 6:00 in the morning,

making carrot muffins, filling sugar dispensers,  filling napkins, wiping counters down, taking out. garbage bags that weighed 30 lbs cuz people put  coffee in. That made me realize I like this. I. don't I I I do not have what it takes to own a  bakery. Here's the epiphany because this relates. back to what you were saying. You don't have  to see all the way. Go as far as you can see.

And all I could see is I think maybe I want a  bakery because I'm so inspired by what barefoot. confess looks like. Isn't that interesting?  And then I went that far and I realized, wait, I don't actually want to own a bakery and run  one. I want to have control over my life and. community so that when I walk into Barefoot  Contessa, I have a little bit of time to sit. down and have a cup of coffee. and the owner and  I know each other. It was really meant for me, but it had a different lesson in it. How old  were you? Oh my gosh. This would have been I.

don't know, probably 25 years ago. I I think I  think our our 20s are for experimenting. Unless. you're Croman and you know you're always going  to be a violinist or Taylor Swift and you always. know you're going to be a singer songwriter. As  you said, um our 20s are for experimenting. try. everything and you're going to learn something  from each experience that um that's going to say. I want to go in that direction. I don't want to go  in that direction. And then by the time you're 30,

you've had those experiences and now you know what  you like and you can figure out how to make that. into a business. Yes. And that's what you did.  Yeah. Well, I knew I didn't want to own Barefoot. Contessa. That's for sure. I did not have it in  me. That's for sure. you know, for somebody who's. sitting there listening saying, "I I just think  it's too late. I think it's too late to start. over." It's never too late. I think did didn't  um the founder of uh Kentucky Fried Chicken start.

when he was 50. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's never  too late. Just forget your age. Just just think. about what you want to do. I mean, I couldn't run  barefootess now, but I've done that. And I used. it to figure out what the next stage was. And I  use that to figure out the next stage. But just. figure out what you like to do. And if you if  you know what you like to do, just think of how. you can make that into a business. And I I knew  somebody that was um that loved to write and they. loved to watch movies. I mean, how do you make  a business out of that? And she got a job as the.

um movie critic for a local newspaper. I mean,  that's just think about what you love to do and. figure out how you can do it more. Well, at one  point you realize you're going to sell the store. Yeah. Can you put us at the scene of that decision  and what led to it? I can't do this one more day. I don't want to smell like carrot muffers and the  granola anymore, people. I'm out of here. And you. But no, but you understand it's really hard. And  I was running um the I mean, there were times when. I was running two stores, but I was running the  store in East Hampton and catering at night. So,

I would start at 6:00 in the morning and get home  at 12 or 1:00 in the morning. And at, you know, at some point you just go, I can't I just can't  do this anymore. And also, I knew how to do it. It wasn't exciting. It wasn't challenging. There  were problems to solve. And it was time to try. something new. So, I tried to figure out what  to do. And I tried to figure out how to sell. it. And my wonderful accountant, Susanna,  and I were talking about it. And she said,

"Why don't you sell it to the employees?" And  so, we figured out a way to sell it to the the. chef and the and the manager. And I financed it,  and they one day they were the owners. That's. amazing. It was great. Now, I know after you  sold the store, Jeffrey, your husband, tells you, "You love food. Why not think of another way to  do it?" Well, that was after a year of having. nothing to do. And that was the hardest year of  my life. That was that was the scariest transition. I've ever made because there were times in that  year that I was I would go to the store thinking,

I just gave up the most interesting career I'll  ever have and I have no idea where this is going. to go. And about 9 months in, Jefferson said, "So,  what do you have to do this week?" And I was like, "I have nothing to do." He said, "You must have  something." And I was like, "I have a manicure. on Wednesday, but that was it." And he said to  me, "You know, you love the food business. Why. don't you think of a different way to do the  food business other than running a specialy. food store?" And I said, "Well, people have asked  me to write a cookbook, but it seemed like such.

a lonely thing. The store felt like a party."  Yeah. And running a community. and it was and. I always wanted the music and I wanted samples and  everybody having fun and I wanted it to feel like. a party whereas writing a cookbook just seemed  like a very solitary thing to do but I didn't. have anything else to do so I thought oh well  I'll write a proposal and see what happens and. um I just wrote a proposal I sent it to the top  cookbook editor thinking I'll never hear from them. and a week later they said thank you very much  we accept your proposal and I was like oh [ __ ].

Now I have to write a cookbook. And I I literally  put the money aside thinking I'll be sending this. back because I have no idea how to write a  cookbook. This is shocking to me and to the. person listening. Why? First of all, it's it's  it's shocking because we know you as a person. who has written a bazillion cookbooks. I had no  idea. and and even thinking about the fact that. you created an iconic store that people loved and  so it never would even occur to me. Do you know.

I hadn't thought about this until now. One of the  things that I do if I decide to do something like. run a specialy food store or write a cookbook or  do a television show. I don't want to do it the. way other people do it. I always think to myself,  I'm not going to do this until I figure out how I. can do it better. And I think that's one of the  things that has served me very well. Um that if.

I'm going to write a cookbook, I'm going to write  the cookbook that I want to write. I'm not going. to write the cookbook that sells. I'm not going  to write the cookbook other people think I should. write. I get an idea in my head about what that  book should be. In that case, it was really simple. recipes that I know will work every time, gorgeous  photographs and ingredients you can get in the. grocery store. That was my mantra and it worked. I  think I really connected with an audience in that. way. You absolutely did. And you also just shared  the formula for true success, which is when you.

get clear about the way you want to do something  and why and you are able to block out the noise of. what everybody else is doing. You've just aligned  your truest intentions and your self-expression. with something that you feel called to do. And  you know what else I really love about you? What? I don't think you have a clue how admired and  impactful you are in people's lives. Not a clue.

A friend of mine says, "You're the only person who  has absolutely no idea who Ana Garden is." And I. think she's right. Well, that's also part of your  success because you've stayed true to yourself. and you realize change me at all. Correct. And  you do it for the fun of it and the love of it, not for the recognition of it. Not at all. Yeah.  Yes. It It comes through like the smell of fresh.

croissants in a bakery. It really It just oozes  out of you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I don't. I don't really get it, but I'm just delighted. I'm  I'm delighted that people connect with what I do, which is wonderful. And as you you must I'm going  to come right out and say it. I am thrilled that. JetBlue is a new sponsor of the Mel Robbins  podcast. You want to know why I love JetBlue. JetBlue is my all-time favorite airline. The thing  I love most about JetBlue is this experience that.

they have called Mint. Holy cow. You walk onto the  plane, it's in the front section of the plane. If. you're going to go on a long-haul flight coast  to coast or overseas, flying Mint by JetBlue, for me, it's like a vacation. I feel as if I'm  checking into an eight-star hotel. You have these. amazing lie flat seats and fast free Wi-Fi. They  partner with some of the world's best chefs and. restaurants. So, you get this three course meal.  You cannot believe you're eating on an airplane.

You can't believe how delicious it is. So consider  Mint a little pre-ation vacation where you rest, dine, relax, then you step off the plane and  you're going to be like, "Why am I even on. vacation? I just flew Mint." Visit jetblue.com  to learn more and book your next trip. I'd love. to have you talk about where you and Jeffrey are  on the beach and you have this realization that. things in your marriage need to change. I think it  was a confluence of a few things. It was the first.

summer when I had the store. He would come to West  Hampton on the weekends when I was the busiest. and I knew I was neglecting him completely.  And then he would leave on Sunday night to go. back just when I had a few, you know, a moment  to breathe. Yeah. Um, I had a new store, which. I I don't have children, but I imagine it's like  having a new baby. You just want to be with that. I wanted the freedom to do whatever I wanted to  do, but I also had never lived on my own. I really.

didn't know who I was on my own. So, I went from  my parents house to Jeffreey's house. And I just. felt like I needed to find out who I was on my  own. And to shift gears in terms of what our roles. were in the relationship, and he he said the thing  that was the most difficult to walk away from is. if you feel like you need to be on your own, you  need to be on your own. which made me just love. him more, which is was really hard. I mean, it he  wasn't mad. He was he was incredibly empathetic.

He was on a trip around the world for the State  Department um for several months and then we met. again when he came back in I guess it was in  December in Palm Springs and we just talked. We talked about what he wanted, what I wanted. We  figured out how we could do both. There is again. thinking, "Wow, this is incredible." falling in  love with this incredible guy who just happens to. be my husband. Well, I want to like unpack this  a little bit because I really thought this was.

quite remarkable cuz and scary. And scary. Yeah,  really scary. Cuz you guys have been married for. 10 years and you've just now bought this freaking  gourmet food store. You're living separately and. then you're trying to cram in like time together  during the busiest time. and then he's leaving and. then you're deflated and then you're right back in  it and you're growing apart. But I want to read to. you cuz you've got this beautiful section here  where you're reflecting when I bought Barefoot.

Contessa, I shattered our traditional roles,  took a baseball bat to them and left them in. pieces. While I was still cooking, cleaning,  shopping, managing, and so on at the store, I was doing it as a businesswoman, not a wife.  My responsibilities made it impossible for me. to even think about anything else. There  was no expectation about who got home from. work first and what they should do because I  never got home from work. And then you write,

"Sometime in the middle of the summer, we went  for a walk on the beach. It was the hardest thing. I ever did. But I found the courage to start  the painful conversation. I told him that I. needed to be on my own. I didn't say whether it  was for now or forever. I didn't know. And what. we're learning is you don't have to know. You just  have to you just see as far as you can start the. conversation. How did starting the conversation  change everything when you didn't know cuz a lot.

of us don't even start the conversation even  if the conversation is I don't know what I'm. feeling but I just know it's not working. I  think because we can't control the response. So, you have to start the conversation even  though you have no idea what the response is, but the response tells you something about the  person you're talking to. Uhhuh. And whether. they're willing to hear you and to bend a little  bit um or whether they're um rigid and not willing.

to change. I love this page in your book. It's  page 153. And we circled it. And just like that, I was alone. So, what did it feel like to have  that conversation and then for the first time ever. be alone? I ran the store for the whole summer and  then I moved into New York. I found an apartment, terrible little apartment that I could afford  and I was on my own. I didn't know anybody in.

New York. I didn't know what I was going to do  over the winter. Um, I had to get to April when I. opened the store again and I literally had nothing  to do and no friends and I it was hard. It was. really hard. I kind of went down the rabbit hole  and Jeffrey used to call and check on me which was. really lovely. And he said, "What are you doing?"  I said, "I'm in bed. Can't get out of bed.". He said, "Okay, get up, put on the yellow skirt  and the white top and get on the train and come.

to Washington where your friends are and and I'm  going on a trip around the world and just stay in. our house and figure out what you want to do." He  didn't try and solve the problem. He just gave me. the um the access to the to surround myself with  people that could help and um that's what I did. What did you learn about yourself while taking  that time to be alone? Hard to be on your own. if you've never been on your own. I mean, I think  if you're always on your own and you build it up,

it's one thing, but I just had the rug pulled  out from underneath and I'm the one who did it. Don't you hate that? Why did I do that? And I also  knew that he was incredibly loving about the way. he let me go through that process. It was really  important for me to figure it out. So, I learned. a lot about myself and I and I learned a lot about  him. I mean, everything's going along swimmingly. You don't really learn that much about each other.  It's in times of stress that you find out who the.

other person really is. What do you think the  biggest thing is that you learn about yourself? Not so good on my own. Um, I think that it was um  I I love to have things to do that I love to do. Um, and I didn't have any I'd gone from being  unbelievably busy with an enormous number. of friends. Um, to having nothing to do and no  personal life. That was a little crazy. Yeah, that. was too much. So, how did you and Jeffrey like  come back together? I realize you never truly you.

separated physically but stayed connected. There  was yeah there was no there were no documents. involved and we just talked and we worked out  that he felt that he couldn't travel as much as. he could because he was married and I felt like I  was responsible for dinner because we were married. and we realized none of those were true. And  there's one other really important takeaway from. this which is it doesn't have to make sense to  anybody else. Yeah. It only has to make sense to.

you. What a great comment. Yeah. Right. Right. All  of it has to just work for you. It doesn't matter. what other people think. Doesn't have to look like  anybody else's relationship. Absolutely. You know, you write about this quote. This is on page 185 of  be ready when the luck happens. And it's a quote. attributed to George Lucas. We're all living in  cages with the door wide open. That was me until.

I realized I had the power and the responsibility  to set myself free to step out of the cage of. whatever I'd experienced in the past to think  for myself and to believe in my choices. Isn't. that the best quote? Living in cages with the door  wide open. It's so I just I thought that was such. a great visual. It really is, but it's hard to see  when you keep talking about the cage that you're. in. And talk to me about realizing that you have  power and the responsibility to set yourself free.

Well, I think we all have the power. Whether we're  willing to exercise it, it's really like any kind. of exercise. You try it a little bit and you go,  "Oh, that was I I can push back." Um, if you're. offered a job and you say, "I really want twice  as much money." And you go, "Wow, that worked.". Um, I think you have to just learn to exercise  your power and just say this is what I want and.

be willing for somebody to say you're not going to  get it. But ask anyway. Yes. And then ask somebody. else. And then ask somebody else. Or here's a  better idea. Go do it yourself. Go do it yourself. Why I always say to my daughters, you're like, I  don't I don't know if I'll ever. And I was like, do you know how many idiots out there are making  more money than most of us? Like I think if they. can figure it out, so can you. You just have to  decide that you're going to figure it out. Mhm. That's it. Mhm. You know, if somebody wants to  start a new business, they're listening to you and.

it's stirring something. What would you say is the  best thing to do? Don't think about being scared. Just think about being excited and then just  go forward and just figure out what you love. to do and and think about how you can make  a business out of it. How you can take all. of the things you're good at and the things that  excite you and figure out some way that you can.

make a living doing it. This is what I want to  do. And if somebody wants to try and stop me, knock yourself out. It's not going to happen.  You have said, "I hope when people remember me, they say she had a very good time." I hope they  do. I think they will. You think they will? Well, I would say that about you, too. I've had a very  I've had a really shitty time for some of it. But. that's part of the process. Yes. I've had had a  really shitty time, too. But I think a it makes.

you appreciate the good times more, but also b  you have to go through that the times when you're. changing. are really hard cuz you don't know  what are you changing to. It's like an abyss. You absolutely have no idea where you're going  and it's a fog and there isn't a clear picture and. you're just hunting for the thing that you want to  do and you're thinking maybe the thing that I just. left was the best thing I'm going to do, but you  just keep moving forward. I'm curious to ask you,

what's your favorite recipe? My favorite recipe?  Do you have a favorite recipe? French apple tart. French apple tart. How come it's Is it Did you  develop it when you were in Paris? It was no, it. was given to me by Lee Bailey, who was a wonderful  cookbook writer. And um it's the thinnest thinnest. thinnest um crispy crust, like a buttery crust,  and very thin sliced apples with butter and sugar. into the oven. And it is to me just the essence of  apples and um sweetness. It's very simple recipe.

and it's I just think it's just gorgeous. Wow. I'm  going to have Are you surprised? I was a little. surprised. Were you thinking it would be? I don't  know because you have so many recipes. I mean, I I don't know what I thought it would be. I I  have one menu that I have if I'm meeting somebody. new and they're coming for dinner, I have one menu  that I know I can nail every single time and it's. actually in barefoot contestant parties and it's  rack of lamb with a mustard and balsamic glaze. um and orzo with roasted vegetables and if  I can serve a French apple tart at the end,

it's like the perfect simple dinner and it's I  don't know why it just feel it feels warm and. welcoming and absolutely delicious every time.  You know, when I was on tour, at the very end, I do this exercise, you know, with 9,000 people in  one of the arenas where everybody writes down the. wild card chapter that if they could do anything,  nobody would judge you. You could make all the. money that you wanted or you didn't even need to  worry about making money. What is the first thing.

you would do? You don't even need to explain  it. And the top two things that people said, one was write a book. The second was I would open  a bakery. Really? Yes. Isn't that interesting? Yes. That people are really drawn to the  experience of being at a beautiful bakery. You talked about how fun it is and there's  a community there and it smells good and you. feel like you're doing something for yourself and  it becomes either a very special moment if you're.

visiting a cool town as a tourist or becomes part  of your routine. Well, a bakery also is like the. heartbeat of a town. Yes. So, it really feels  good. I had a very good friend of mine was one. of the founders of Burton Snowboards and she said  she always wanted to have a specialty food store. She was literally eight months pregnant  when she said this to me. And I said to her, "First work in the bakery before you decide to  open a specially food store." And so she came to.

to East Hampton. This was 30 years ago. And she  worked at Barefoot Contestant in the bakery. She. spent the whole summer there and she loved it. And  she opened a specialy food store in Stow, Vermont. that was incredibly successful. Wow. So half of  the people that you put in the bakery would go. have your experience and the other half would have  Donna Carpenter's experience. So I guess that's a. great advice. If you want to open a bakery,  go work in one first. Go work in one first. And that's kind of the advice for everything.  If you're interested in something, jump in the.

pond and splash around and you're going to figure  it out. If the person listening takes one thing. away from this conversation, what do you think the  most important thing you want to say is? Do what. you love. If you love it, you'll be really good at  it. What are your parting words? We only have one. trip around this merrygoround. And if you're not  having fun, what in the world is the point of it?

It's true. It's true. What's the point? What's  the point? Like, you're not here to suffer and. to be stuck and miserable and jealous. Like  there's something really cool that you could. do if you allow yourself to do it. Mhm. Well,  thank you. Thank you for inspiring us. Thank you. for inspiring us always. You're welcome.  I think you are such an incredible human. being. Thank you. And your example has made  a huge difference in my life. And it's made.

a huge difference in my life because one of my  favorite things in the world is cooking at home. and gathering with people that I love. And you  don't know this, but you are often there because. I'm cracking open my vinegar stained cookbooks.  Thank you. And I think one of the things that's. really important to remember for cooking is make  something really simple because the simple it is, the more you're going to do it. And and it's  really about having people around the table. together and create a community for yourself.  I think we really need to have feel that we're.

um our lives matter to others. Yeah. And if you  create a group of friends and family and people. that matter to you, you'll be good to go. What are  you actually excited about that you're that you're. doing right now? I just started a podcast. You  did? I did. Oh my god. I love that. Yesterday, actually. What? You're kidding. Tell me  about it. Well, it's um it's called Happy. Hour and it's somebody comes and has a cocktail  with me and we sit and talk for an hour. Oh,

that's fantastic. I actually have one other  thing. Can I tell you about it? Yes, please. tell me. What are you doing? New book coming out.  Oh my god. Give me this. Oh, and what I found is. I kept making simpler and simpler recipes because  I wanted to cook for friends, but it, you know, it. takes time. Each recipe has something in it that  makes it easier. It's either no cooking at all. Okay. As long as you don't consider toasting bread  cooking. Wow. Um there's a recipe for dessert that.

I just love, which is a raspberry cheesecake.  And we've all made cheesecake and you're standing. at the oven door going, "Is it done? Is it not  done? Is it going to fall?" I just said, "Go to. a bakery and buy a really good cheesecake, bring  it home, make a fresh raspberry sauce with fresh. raspberries, and pour it on top. Now you've made  it your own, and you've got something absolutely. delicious." You know what I love about you? What?  You literally created a cookbook that told us to. go buy a cheesecake and then just make the sauce  at home. I see like 55 things I am going to make.

Well, in a garden, thank you so much. Thank you,  ma'am. You're amazing. And I So great to be here. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you for making  time and spending it with the two of us. Um I. know you loved every second of this and we loved  being with you. And in case no one else tells you, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to remind you  that I love you and I believe in you and I believe. in your ability to create a better life. And so  listen to don't be standing there at the edge. of the pond talking yourself out of it. Jump in,  splash around. And if you ever feel stuck trying.

to figure it out, just do both. And thank you for  watching all the way to the end here on YouTube. I know you loved that and I loved being with you.  And thank you for sharing this with people in your. life that you care about. All righty. I know you  want to watch another episode of the Mel Robbins. podcast. You're going to love this one next.  And I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play.