30 Years of Marriage: 3 Things About Relationships I Wish Someone Told Me Sooner

Today on the Mel Robbins podcast, my. husband Chris and I [music] are. reflecting on 30 years of marriage and. sharing the three things about. relationships we sure wish somebody had. told us sooner. I get angry and vent and. get [music] flooded and then I'm a jerk. >> Welcome to our marriage. >> I've been with you the majority of my. life. >> and I love you more than ever. >> Okay, we're not going to get through. this. Okay, I love you, too. [laughter]. Okay, so here. Should we start this?

Hey, it's your friend Mel and my husband. Christopher Robbins. Welcome to the Mel. Robbins podcast. I am absolutely. thrilled that you're here for a once-. ina-lifetime conversation because today. my husband and I are talking and. reflecting on our 30th wedding. anniversary. And this is only going to. happen once. Not because we're breaking. up, but because like you only have your. 30th wedding anniversary once. And it's. such an honor to be together with you, to spend this time with you. If you're.

new here, or if maybe somebody you're in. a relationship with sent you this. episode, or they've trapped you in a car. with them right now and you're listening. and this is their form of therapy or a. date, welcome. I've done that to my. husband, too. Welcome to the Mel Robbins. Podcast family. You are going to love. this conversation because today my. husband Chris and I are celebrating our. 30th wedding anniversary with you and. we're going to share three lessons that.

we have learned over the last three. decades. These are lessons that I wish. somebody had just boom summed up for us. when we got married 30 years ago. We. learned this stuff the hard way. It. explains so much about the years of our. life, Chris, where we were really. struggling. It also explains the roadmap. for how you find your way back to the. person that you fell in love with. [snorts] And so, I'm super excited about.

this. Welcome to the podcast, Chris. >> Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm happy. to be here and and I'm looking forward. to these little lessons because they do. help crystallize all that we did go. through. >> Yeah. Yeah. Boy, we went through a lot. >> Yes, we have. >> It's impossible to be in a long-term. relationship and not experience so many. ups and downs. And what does 30 years. feel like for you? Like when you really. think about 30 years going by? And if.

you're brand new to the show, you know, I should just say that we also have. three kids. They're uh 27, 26, and 21. years old. And um we have been through. so many ups and downs and been in and. out of financial crisis and we've both. been fired from jobs and struggled and. had moments where we feel lost. We've. have kids that have struggled. We've. navigated your father dying. Like just. 30 years of your life, you navigate a.

lot. When you think about the fact that. we've been married for 30 years, what do you what comes to mind for you, Chris? Honestly, the visual of like a. flip book where you flip it through and. it's like. and all of those scenes that in the. moment feel so acute, so profound. Either whether you're elated or were. feeling on top or feeling at the bottom,

they all. they all are meaningful and. the speed at which they have passed is. quite remarkable. Honestly, to think. that it's been 30 years is a bit. jaw-dropping. You know, when you first. fall in love, you. have this assumption because of all the. fabulous love chemicals, that's a. technical term I just made up, that are. flooding through your body and the.

attraction that you kind of gaslight. yourself into thinking, oh, it's always. going to be like this. And if there's. one thing that we've learned the hard. way and everybody learns in life is that. things are always changing and that the. true test of your relationship is not. how you are together when things are. good. I mean you could be with a not. great person in a not great relationship. but if things are going really well you. don't really have to lean on the. relationship. The true test is what.

happens when things fall apart. When you. lose the job, when a parent dies, when a. child is sick, when the pressure hits, when the bank account is bouncing, when life makes you hard, and life does. that. I I'm already crying. I don't know. cuz I'm just thinking about like how. many freaking hard periods of our life. we've had. And um.

one of the things that was that I really. struggled with in our relationship is. how often when life hardened me, I. brought that edge into our relationship. And if you're going to go the distance. with somebody, it's really because you. have picked somebody that you can do the. difficult things with, that you can. struggle with, that you can lean on. And. when I look back, one of the biggest. lessons that I've learned, and I'm going.

to explain it first in my words, and. then I'm going to share the way one of. the incredible relationship experts. summed it up, is when life got hard, I. became very hard on you. When. life really. started to beat me up, I started to take. it out on you. And I think that's an extremely common. mistake that people make. And if you.

stop and reflect and think about your. own relationship, how often you've. blamed stress of the day. In fact, I. just did this last night on. how emotional or how volatile or how. just mean you might be to the person. that you love. And the first lesson that. I really learned that is both the reason. why relationships end and it's also the.

simple. lesson that brings you back to the. person you fell in love with. And it's. this. You're my favorite person. That is the best relationship advice I. have ever heard. Four words. you're my. favorite person. And so the first takeaway for me is if. you're in a relationship, can you say. that about the person that you're with? Because if you fundamentally.

have never felt like this is your. favorite person, then you're in the. wrong relationship. And if you're going through a very rough. time, what I love about these four. words, you're my favorite person, is. this is the like lifeline. It's like a. tow rope that you can grab on to to pull. you back to what is still true. Because. even when life is hard, that person that. you fell in love with is still in there.

And I also love this question because. you not only ask yourself, you're my. favorite person. Am is Chris my favorite. person? Of course, I just hate my life. right now, but he's still my favorite. person. And then you ask yourself the. second layer, which is, am I treating. him like my favorite person? >> No. >> That's kind of where the rubber meets. the road, I think, for me. Cuz when I. think about when we first met, Absolutely. You were my favorite. All. the way up until,

in fact, after we. got married, which was a couple years. later. But in the in that time frame, you are my favorite every moment of. every day because. in to some extent we really hadn't hit. anything hard. We had no concept. of how we might harden or how we might. behave in those tough times. which I.

think is what makes relationships. challenging cuz in the early days it is. a honeymoon period as they call it and. everybody's everybody's favorite until. the hits the fan. >> I know the moment that that you know. what hit fan and I you started going. from my favorite person to. not my favorite person to somebody that. I was mad at. And it was when we were in. our 20s and we had met in New York City.

and we were early in our careers and you. decided to make a career change and then. you didn't like that and then you. decided to launch a business and it. didn't do well and then you decided to. scramble and get a job and there was a. point where we were so struggling with. paying our bills. I was a public. defender working for legal aid. you had. not uh had a job for a while that do you. remember this? We were talking about. moving in with your parents.

as a new married couple and we were. going to have to move into like the. basement walkout part of their like. retirement house. >> I don't actually remember that. But it's. funny that you bring this up because. when you asked me to think about a. moment in time, >> that's about the same time frame that I. thought about myself both. in in in the context of me also hating.

beginning to hate on myself. Um, but also recognizing that that's. when I stopped listening to you. Because because No, no, no. It had. nothing to do with you. I was so focused. on me and what I thought I should be. achieving or producing that. you you you barely even existed. And so.

I really wasn't listening to you or your. needs or your interests. And so anyway, when I was thinking about that incident, that was really where things started to. unwind a little bit when I said, "Hey, you know what? I want to go get my MBA. and I want to do it in Boston and I want. to, you know, move out of New York. City." And you said, "Are you kidding. me? Like, I love my job. This is great. Why are we leaving?" And you were. miserable when we moved up there. And.

honestly, in the moment, it it I was so. blind to what I thought I should have. been doing for you that I was oblivious. to the fact that you were even unhappy. with the idea. >> Wow. You've never even brought this up. in therapy before. >> No, but you me to think about this. And. >> you know what's crazy about this, Chris, is that I always called you stoic. I. called you a thinker. I called you uh a. slow processor when I was really annoyed.

with you. I uh just sort of put your. sequestering. into a box that was about you and I had. no idea that you tuned me out. And what. happens when that starts to happen is. for somebody like me, I just get louder. cuz then I feel alone and unsafe. And. for somebody like you, you just. sequester more into your head. Like I. think that there was like what a full.

decade where we were like this. >> Yeah. >> You think it was longer? >> No, that sounds about right. Anyway, 10. years. But that's enough to cause enough. damage. I mean, and it did. >> And you know, the thing that's important. about this is. this is, I think, a period of our. marriage that you would describe as we. were just roommates. We would say that we do logistics really. well. So, we can get the kids where they. need to go. We can get the dogs fed. We.

can get the groceries on the table. We. can get we can show up at the the, you. know, the holiday celebration. We can. check the boxes. We can. >> I don't think the roommate phase set in. that early because we were beginning to. have kids. And so, we were learning a. new. a new challenge of being parents to. newborns. And so the roommate thing. didn't quite settle in until I think. once all three or at least two had. arrived and then it was and then the. sequestering began for sure. Well, I.

think we're I I'm kind of using a word. maybe that doesn't resonate. It felt. like logistics and life took over and. our connection. and this these four words, you're my. favorite person, stopped being the central organizing. principle of our marriage. And I truly. believe that these four words as a. lesson and a philosophy that you can.

anchor yourself to immediately reveals. whether or not the connection is frayed. Because if you don't feel that way about. your partner and you once did, that's a. sign that life has hardened you and. you're in this phase where you've pulled. apart and being able to then go, how do. I start treating this person like my. favorite person again, even if things. have gone down, even if there are still.

a lot of struggles, even if we are. fighting about money, which we did for. decades, absolute decades. But I want to. uh play. this moment from the Mel Robbins podcast. when a world-renowned divorce attorney, James Ston, said those four words on the show. Like, at its core, marriage should boil down to to four. words that I think.

I think are potentially the most. beautiful words you could say to. someone. and mean or have someone say to. you and know they're true and that is. you're my favorite person. >> Like what could be more beautiful than. being told and knowing like that when. this person says it, they mean it. You're my favorite person. And to say to. someone back, "Yeah, you're my favorite. person." Like what would be better in. the world than having that, you know?

And and so I like to think about kind of. the end of things and then reverse. engineer. And to me like at the end of. your life, if you could look at another. person and say, "You helped me become. the most authentic version of myself and. you're still my favorite person.". That's the greatest wedding toast you. could ever have. Like that's the. greatest blessing you could have in your. life and I think it'd be the greatest. asset you could have in your life. Do. you want to react to that?

>> I think he just said that's the greatest. wedding toast you could have. And that's. my point is that. when I boil down what. has you be my favorite person. It was. And it does make me cry.

because I can say that. in those first few days when we met, you. brought out. the authenticity in me.

[snorts]. I felt. almost like somebody had. unlocked the real me. and that like the fake me was. had gone away. And that that freedom I felt. was definitely one of those things that. made me.

feel like you were my favorite. What's interesting about that though is. your point about hardening and then you. get into. let's now call it 30 years where we're. going through the ups and the downs and. the twists and the turns. And. that's where the hard work is, I think, is being able to wake up and say, "This.

is originally why this person was my. favorite." [laughter]. and. trying to presence that in the face of. the tough stuff that's going on. >> Well, I think that's why the tough. periods are so painful. because when you fall in love and you. fall in love with somebody who is truly. your favorite person, they are your favorite person because of. how being with them makes you feel about. you.

And that's why it's so painful. when your favorite person turns on you. and you start to feel. >> as if. either they are no longer your favorite. person because of things they've done. or because the world is just pressure. testing you and you're now bringing it. to the relationship and taking it out on. them. or something has happened with you.

and you're no longer treating this. person that you once treated as your. favorite person, you don't treat him that way anymore. And one of the reasons why I was so. struck by this advice that James Ston. shared on the Mel Robbins podcast, cuz. it kind of strikes you as odd. Why on. earth would you get relationship advice. from a worldrenowned divorce attorney? And he basically said, "Because who do. you take a car to to fix it? A. mechanic." Because a mechanic has seen. everything break in a car. So it can a.

mechanic can spot the signs that things. are headed towards a serious thing. They. can head this can be fixed. This can't. be fixed. This is a total wreckage. And. one of the things that James also shared. that I would love to share with you is. the shest indicator of a divorce because. it does tie to this first lesson. You're. my favorite person. So let's hear James. Ston reflecting on that.

>> Like I often tell people to me the shest. indicator of a divorce is not anything. anyone says. It's a sound. And it's this. sound. It's. just that like like when the other. person's talking and there's just this. like like what? Yeah. What? What? Yeah. Okay. Like why are you bothering me with. what you're saying? >> Or that like kind of eye rolling like. it's just those subtle dis courtesies.

and disrespects. It's the tone. It's the. body language. Like that's a huge piece. is. So, I would when you're looking at. signs, look at how you physically relate. to each other. I mean, you've seen. couples, I'm sure, where it's like, why. are they even when they touch each. other, >> it's like, you know, when you're first. together, like you touch your skin and. it's like an electric bolt through you. of like, oh my god, this person touched. me. There's like, oh my god, our legs. touched. Like, it's just that. I mean, and thank God that passes or we just.

never get anything done, you know? But. it's supposed to sort of pass and become. like still something comfortable and. connected. >> because all that person maybe you don't. like holding hands. That's okay. But. maybe they're trying to connect with. you. >> Yeah. >> So do you want to connect with them? >> Like and if it's that I don't like. sweaty hands. Okay. So put your arm. around me like you know lean in and do. something like like meet each other. halfway. There's a lot of these little. tiny physical and verbal disconnections. >> I can immediately think of like five. couples right now. Can't you Chris? like.

the eye roll, the you're bothering me. And I was that way with you. for probably a decade. Not all the time, but I threw that at you, that. discourtesy, that kind of. I'm sorry. >> Thanks for saying that. I felt it.

>> [laughter]. >> I mean. I I mean I think I could say the same. that I had those things certainly on you. as well. But I think the difference between us is. that you know I internalize things way. more than you ever did. like you would.

lash out. You your your reaction to. these things would be external. whereas my reaction would be quite. internal. That's not to say that I wasn't or, you. know, or whatever those noises were that. were going on under my breath, but half the time they were aimed at. myself more than they were at you, which. I think is the thing that. compounded your either anger, distrust,

or whatever it was towards me. >> Yeah. Because when you went silent and. I'm lashing out because I'm like sad or. upset or scared or whatever and anger is. the fastest like h valve and then you go. quiet. I feel even more disconnected. >> Correct. Really what you needed was a. hug and I'm running in the opposite. direction. >> which I don't blame you for. >> Yeah. But still, you know, when you talk. about meeting people where they are, that wasn't always going down.

I want to give you as you're listening. or watching a very real application of. how you start to apply this first. lesson. You're my favorite person. This. is both a test of are you with the right. person? Because if you've never felt. that way about the person, you're not. with the right person. It's also a way. for you to just take the temperature of. your relationship. What what's what's. >> carry on? I'm just [laughter]. >> Oh, I thought you were about to cry.

>> I was about to, but that's because I'm. thinking about all the moments in our. life. They're they're racing by in my. head right now. >> There were a lot of them. And there were. so many like even during the crappy. decade, like there were so many. incredible joyful like it's like violent. ups and downs. that we experienced. And the thing that. that you can do to start to apply this. and we are going to get into the deeper. issues. What if the person has done. something and you're you resent them for.

it? What if somebody really hurt you and. you can't let go of the grudge? We're. going to talk about that in a minute, but I want to give you something that. Chris does that I want you to steal. It. is free and I will tell you right now. that you can use a post-it note to make. your relationship better starting today. Because writing notes and hiding notes. to the person you're in a relationship.

with is the single coolest and fastest. way to start to recreate a connection. And Chris, I swear to God, Chris has. been hiding notes in my wallet. Look at. how old this one is. It says, "Me. again." Just thinking about how much I. love you. Look how old this thing is. And he doesn't tell me. He just pops it. in something. You have hidden this one.

He hid this Post-it note. Mel, I love. you. Thank you for loving me. He hid. that Post-it note in my freaking. pillcase. I was on a trip and I opened. this sucker up, you know, to take all. the things that all the experts tell us. we need to take in order to live to be. hundred and like be energized and. healthy and all that stuff. And there it. is. And when you see a note like that, um, oh my gosh, here's another one. Did. I mention how much I love you? Look at. how old these things are. Here's another.

one. Hi there. Look, it's my bursting. heart. Oh my god, you're kind of. [laughter]. Or here's another one. Like they're. literally all over the place. He's been. doing this for years. I'll pop open my. glasses because I'm basically like need. them. Did you know how much I love you? When I get one of these notes, I feel like your favorite person and you. immediately become mine and it reminds.

me of our connection. Does it solve the massive problems that. we may be facing? No. Does it remove the. financial debt that is crushing us? No. Does it erase the uh issues that our. kids may be struggling with that are. causing us to argue over what to do. about? No. But in that moment, that. singular note. is your way to use you're my favorite.

person. in a busy life. And it's free. You could. leave it like I leave it on your desk. when you go and lead your soul degree. retreats. Like that's that's how you. have really started. That's how you have. infiltrated and created a connection. with me that no matter where I am, when. I find one of these things, I'm like, "Oh my god, he's he thought about me. He. loves me. He stuck that in there knowing. I would find. Oh my god, he's my.

favorite person.". I didn't realize that the notes you. sometimes leave on my own desk were. inspired by my notes. That's cool. >> Of course it work. >> Those feel so good. When I come back, >> you just tucked one in to the credit. card thing that I don't think I've ever. found. [laughter]. Holy cow. I wonder how long this has. been in here. This is from an Omni hotel. and resort somewhere that you were, I. guess. I don't know. I love you. That. was right in the little credit card. slot. I've never even seen that one. That's an old one.

I can't remember the last time we were. at an Omni. So, yeah, it is an old one. >> Wow. >> You do that with flowers. >> What do you mean. >> for me? [snorts]. >> Do you even like flowers? >> Well, >> explain what I do so I know. do like. flowers, but I mostly love them because. I. get to live vicariously through the love. you have for flowers. And.

it's a little. >> So, explain what I do so that everybody. can steal this. Well, you just have such a love of. flowers and. you come into my office when I'm not. there and you put one little flower, whichever your favorite of the day is, and slide it into a tiny little vase or. however you like to present it, and you.

leave it right on my desk. And then I. come back and there's. you. It's not even the flower. I just. see you. And. it's funny because. that's another thing that makes you my. favorite person. Not just the flower, but when we first met.

also makes me cry. First date, walking down the sidewalk, >> New York City. >> We're in midcon conversation after. dinner, can't even remember what we were talking. about, and you took off running. And I. thought, "What the hell is this woman. doing?" When I caught up to you, you've. got a leaf in the palm of your hand. shaped like a heart. >> It was a yucka tree, I think. >> Ginko tree. >> Oh, ginko tree. See, I don't even know.

what's happening. >> And you were jumping for joy as if the. good humor truck just showed up. Like, you were so excited about this. heart-shaped leaf and this tree and how. it was your favorite. I mean, talk about authenticity and sort. of that devi that I felt from you. So, when you put a little tiny flower on my. desk, that brings me right back to your.

own love affair with flowers, but makes. me feel like I'm your favorite. >> Amazing. This message is brought to you. by Apple Card. Ice cream by the beach. Going to mini golf with the family. Checking out a new restaurant in town. They're more than just items to check. off the summer bucket list. They're also. opportunities to earn 2% daily cash back. when you use your Apple Card with Apple. Pay. Apply for Apple Card now and use in.

minutes with Apple Pay. Subject to. credit approval. Apple Card is issued by. Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City. branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. So that's the first lesson. You're my. favorite person. And those are two. simple ways that you can start to apply. it. And that brings me to the second. lesson. Um, and the second lesson is. really relevant because a lot of what. we've learned over the years, or I.

should just say I've learned over the. years, is how important softening is. So, you hear the relationship experts. that are worldrenowned talk about. kindness. and curiosity. and having an open heart. And often. times when you're in the thick of life, it's like, well, how the hell do you do. that when this person's freaking pissing. me off right now? And for me, one of the reasons why I think our. marriage is stronger than ever, I love. you more deeply than ever, is that I. have learned the importance of softening.

and remembering. the person I married. And this comes to. the second lesson. If you want your. relationship to go the distance and be. meaningful and deeply connected, always remember you did not marry the. adult who is standing in front of you. You married the 8-year-old version of. that person. And there are pieces of you. as a little kid that never got the.

real I don't even know what the. technical term is that there are parts. of you like the reason you run into the. corner is because that's what you did as. a kid. The reason why you go into your. head is because that's what you did as a. kid. The reason why you don't ask for. what you need, Chris, is because you. grew up like a lot of people did in a. family as the youngest with a lot going. on where it didn't matter what your. needs were because people didn't care or. they cared but they didn't listen and so. you just stopped talking. And it's easy.

for me to get mad at you when I look at. the 57year-old version of you and be. like, "The man's a grown ass adult. Why. is he acting like this? Why doesn't he. just tell me what he need? and not stop and go, "Okay, hold on. This is my favorite person.". And. I'm not dealing with a 57. I'm dealing. with the part of him that's eight, just. like you're dealing with the part of me.

that is a little girl. And this is. really important because one of the. things that I've learned from the. experts and what I've learned from our. own like therapy, you and I have have. been working with a therapist for 5. years that what's very important about. this is it softens you because I think. it's easy to be like that person's a. dick. that person's a Like they. like I and you start to get super judgy. and because the world can make you hard,

you don't want the way the world hardens. you to be the part of you that you bring. into the relationships. And I find that. the moment that I think about the fact. that. I know who you are at your core, if you've been with somebody for a year, you knew who they are at their core. And when you can remember that most. people aren't intentionally. trying to hurt you or intentionally.

trying to. make you resent them or intentionally. trying to piss you off, they're just. doing the best that they can in a very. difficult. world that we live in. And. I've really been able to soften. by thinking about the fact that. there are times that you get scared. There are times that you're overwhelmed. There are times that you don't know what. to ask for. And it's helped me really.

stop being so freaking judgy and angry. and resentful. when you're not doing exactly what I. want you to do. or behaving how I want you to behave and. just. slow the roll a little bit. because you and I have struggled with. something that the worldrenowned couples. therapist Terry Real talks about. He. came on the Mel Robbins podcast. I know.

you know Terry very well and he talked. about something that was like whoa. He. has this term, let's see if this rings a. bell, Chris. Normal marital hatred. Let's hear uh Terry Real on the Mel. Robbins podcast talking about normal. marital hatred. Normal marital hatred.

>> Normal marital hatred. >> Normal [laughter] marital hatred. >> My god. >> And I got to tell you, I've been around. the world talking about normal marital. hatred for 40. Not once has anyone come. backstage and said, "What? What do you. mean by that?" [laughter]. I'd like to say, "We all marry our. unfinished business.". >> Whoa, hold on. We all marry our. unfinished business. >> You got it. You know what? Young Mal.

could have had a guy that would have. done everything she wanted him to do. I. guarantee you there are guys you dated. who you would not have gone through this. crisis with. They did not blip on your. screen. >> I call this the mysticism of marriage. >> The mysticism of marriage. >> Yes. If we have the opportunity to heal. our deepest wounds, not. falling in love means, "Oh yeah, this.

person's going to give it to me. I'm. going to be healed. They're going to. give me everything I didn't get. Good. luck." A real relationship comes, I like. to say, when you realize your partner. is, here's my quote, exquisitely. designed to stick the burning spear. right into your eyeball. That's the. crisis. That's not a bad relationship. That's a. real relationship. The question is now. what? >> Are you just going to repeat the same. old same old? That's hell.

Or are you going to wake up and do. something different? The crisis can wake. you up if you allow it. But you have to. do it. And so there's a lot that goes. into why we don't wake up, how to wake. up, and if we do stay awake, what the. hell do we do then? >> What does. unfinished business mean? That what does. cuz because it's true. The person that. you're in a relationship with has an.

uncanny way to get under your skin, piss. you off, frustrate the hell out of you. You love them, but you want to kill them. at times, right? >> Yeah. definitely want to change them. >> Yeah. >> But what does unfinished business mean. exactly for us? >> It means. that you are now exactly in the. childhood wound that that son of a gun. that you picked was supposed to never. put you in. You have been fundamentally.

betrayed. You are back. You're four. You're with your crazy family and your. partner is just as chaotic, it turns. out, as your dad was. Your partner is. just as betraying as your mom was. Whatever the wound is, all of a sudden. it's in your face. And that's not what. you signed up for. And you hate that son. of a gun. >> When you hear normal marital hatred,

what comes to mind, Chris? driving down the road with you in the. passenger seat, head down, doing whatever you're doing, silent, feeling like, or I should say I'm. feeling like you are a million miles. away even though you're 2 feet from me.

And that's so on point what Terry is. saying because. you know as they I think they say you. you either marry your mother or your. father or something to that effect. And. >> you know a lot of my struggle was the. physical and emotional absence of my. dad. That really I think was at the crux of. our hardest times.

because we were both running scared. trying to do what we were doing. >> Millions dollars in debt. >> like roommates, financial pain, all of. these things that had us be in our. separate corners which only exacerbated. the what I experienced which was a lot. of physical and emotional absence from. you. And. so yeah, that's the uh whatever he said, the sharp poker in the eye or what. [laughter] have you. That's how it felt.

I want to just really unpack this. because I think it's a very common thing. that people feel. When things get hard, you turn on the. person that was your favorite person. and. you immediately feel that shift in a. relationship. and you start to feel the distance. And then you both go into your corners. And what ends up happening,

at least for me, is. when you stop talking and you're silent. and withdrawn, I feel alone. And it really makes me feel unsafe and. then I get mad that you're not just. fixing everything. And that's where it goes way deep. And. it never occurred to me until you and I. started working with a therapist and. Terry put those words normal marital.

hatred. out there. I'd never heard that before. that I really understood what he was. talking about and I started to realize. wait a minute like there like I'm like. when I get scared it's typically because. you're also scared and my little. 8-year-old version gets anxious and. angry and feels alone and yours probably. feels the same way but I start like. going a million miles an hour and you.

just get quiet. and that's the When you can identify it, not as something somebody's doing. intentionally, not as something that. somebody's out to get you. This is the. compounding effect. of all of these smaller moments that. creates this massive distance and. disconnection. That's where you can go. to work. And what's really helped me is. basically going, I married like the. younger version of you. You have. unfinished business with yourself. I.

have unfinished business with myself. And we have an opportunity when we come. at it that way to work together to help. each other finish that business and be. more supportive of one another. What do you want to say? just feeling a whole lot of gratitude. that we've had 30 years together to. move through it versus.

throw in the towel. >> If the person listening, let's start. with the person listening who is in a. relationship with somebody who shuts. down like you do. Let what would your advice be to that. person about what you want them to know. when a partner is shutting down and not. communicating. cuz I'm the opposite. I get angry and.

vent and get flooded and then I'm a jerk. and then I apologize and then I get in. that cycle and I then feel more and more. alone and I know that it just shuts you. down more. Do you even take a moment to. notice how you're feeling? Is there. >> No. Well, I didn't back then. If I did, if I had simply for many years paused in. the driveway. and taken a deep breath and said, "Okay, remember Mel, Chris is your favorite. person.

Life is hard right now, but you two are. going to get through this together.". and supporting each other right now and. and trying to be kind to each other and. and caring and and considerate and. curious of one another is going to make. it way more likely that you two can get. through this together. Do not let the world and the stress and. the overwhelm that is very real. overwhelm your marriage and the and your.

relationship and the power of the two of. you standing together. So, he's your favorite person. Chris is. your favorite person. And he's probably just as scared as you. are. He's probably just as stressed as. you are. Take a deep breath. and walk in that door and you can be. tired and still be kind. >> I mean, that's beautiful and beautifully. said and easier said than done for most. of us. >> I said I wish I did it. I didn't say I. did it.

>> So, I I don't really have a succinct. answer to. >> What do you want somebody to know? Let's. say somebody's listening right now and. they've always thought, "Wow, I'm just. married to somebody who doesn't talk. I'm just married to a thinker. I'm just. married to somebody who like. can't like doesn't really talk about how. they feel." Like what I think is very. important about what you're talking. about is that somebody who's quiet on. the surface is still feeling deep, deep, deep emotion.

And how do you help your partner? Because I used to say to you, "What are. you thinking? What's going on up there? What are you thinking about? What's on. your mind, Chris?" And you would still. deflect. Probably cuz you didn't want me to yell. at you if you were about to open up. about something. >> Yeah. But I mean maybe there was a. period there where I didn't want to say. anything but I think it's it gets back. to. my own yes there was deep thought in.

there and this is not a great answer. because it's not easy to do in the. moment but understanding why it is that. let's say in the instance where I'm. being quiet. you know what is that like where does. what's the origin of that for me and. that's where I think there was a lot of. work that I did to recognize. what I was missing or what I wanted and.

you know a lot of the time. I mean I think I think one of my light. bulbs was you know in those in those. years where it was tough. and we were running around like chickens. it was rare that we would come together. and actually have a. pow-wow. In fact, the only time we did it was. when we needed to go over our calendars,

which I used to kind of scoff at because. I remember watching my parents do that. when I was a kid and thinking that is so. stupid. >> And then here we were on Sunday night. trying to do that for ourselves. And as much I as much as I didn't like. that that's what was pulling us. together, that was like. that was a great. moment for me because.

we were. there was an attempt to be close, to be. aligned, to be in communication. And. I use that as example because. it it's it's one of those things that. was like, oh, this is what's missing for. me is. >> the that connection and not just. communication, but as even just touch.

like I didn't grow up with a lot of. touch and so it took me whatever 30 40. years to realize just like you reaching. out and holding my hand or putting your. hand on my shoulder older or that that. simple level or simple act of intimacy. was like the greatest thing in the world. for me. And.

it takes a little bit, at least it did. for me, to recognize that. this is what I need. This is what I. want. And some of that may have come in. the form of the struggles and the. breakdowns and even the breakthroughs. and some of the work that we've done. together. But again, the reason why it. doesn't sound like a great answer is. because some of it is time and. recognition of. being able to stop and slow down a. little bit to even recognize the emotion.

or the feeling. Which is why I asked. you, do you think that because you are. very ready, fire, aim kind of person. >> Yes. And I am definitely more like. ready, aim, okay, aim again, then fire. >> Yes. I I think there's there's a lot. that I want to. really dig into there because it kind of. brings us to the third lesson. You use. the word um simple intimacy. And one of the things that we have.

learned the hard way is that when we are. in a chapter in our relationship where. we're really connected and we feel. supportive of each other and life feels. manageable and I feel like you are my. favorite person and I'm also treating. you that way. There's something that is. very obvious and present and it is. simple points of connection throughout a. week. And you mentioned the calendar.

because this is something I never expect. you to cry over, but I understand why. you did because if you really think. about why you fall in love with. somebody, it's because not only does. this person make you feel safe and make. you feel like the version of you that. you really you can be yourself, you. don't have to compromise your values or. who you are. They bring out the best in. you. But there's also this incredible. thing that in the beginning you have all.

these shared goals and dreams. You have. a vision. You have a way you think your. life is going to turn out. And there's a. lot of time spent about what are we. going to do and what are we doing this. weekend? And then you see your friends. and there's this scaffolding and these. points of connection every week in the. beginning of a relationship that remind. you of why this relationship matters and. why two can feel like one when you have. these points of connection. And the. thing about a calendar whether you're. young parents or you've just moved in.

together is that life does trample you. with logistics. And it's way worse today. with texting and social and Slack and. Monday and work and email and cell. phones and all that stuff. Like the. volume of input. that can act like a title wave to wash. you away from your partner is endless. And so a calendar meeting on a Sunday. night, not the sexiest thing in the. world, brings you together and gets you.

aligned against a shared vision. That's. why that matters. And there are a couple. things that are always present, Chris, I. notice, in the periods of our life where. things are really good. And this is not. complicated stuff. Number one, we do the calendar meeting. cuz one of my resentful accommodations. is feeling like, you know, it's all up. to me or, you know, I didn't ask for. help or whatever. And that's a moment. where you can start to ask, is there. something that you need for support? Is.

there something you need this week? you. know, you had a huge week last week and. I remember saying, "Let me take all the. dinners. Let me support you that way.". Now, you would never have come up to me. and said, "Hey, I have a big week. Could. you do dinners?" But that calendar. meeting allowed us to remind ourselves, we're in this together and what help do. you need? And you always ask me, "What. can I do to help you this week? What do. you need?". The second thing that I notice is.

present is. we take a walk a couple mornings, not. seven days a week, but we actually two. or three times a week we just get a. short walk in. Another thing that I notice is we have a. couple meals together and if we're lucky. we cook together and we have this ritual. where we ask the high the low of the. day. Lots of people have a version of. this, whether it's rose, thorn, bud, or. whatever. It just kind of prompts you to.

share more about. what you're looking forward to. And then. the final thing, I think this is really. important because we neglected this for. a while. Your relationship does not exist in a. vacuum. And if you isolate your relationship. from the structures. that reinforce the power of being in a. committed and loving and supportive.

relationship, that isolation. starts to tear away at your connection. because you start to feel like it's me. against you. It's us against the world. All I do is work and then come home and. that's my existence. And one thing we. have done that I noticed in a remarkable. distance is for our 30th wedding. anniversary, instead of having a party, we said, you know what we're going to. do? We're going to prioritize seeing. friends. and we're going to prioritize seeing.

people that God were in our wedding 30. years ago. We're going to prioritize. seeing other couples or other families. or other friends that have been there. because. making time, whether it's with family or. old friends or new friends, making time. for that reinforces. the memories. It reinforces the network. that you've created together. Fun and connection is such a huge part.

of it. And when I look back at the times. when we were really at each other's. throats, we were not doing that. We were. isolated. We were barricaded with our. problems. We were at each other. We were. locked away in in your your head, my. anger. And there's something about. getting out of your rhythm and into an. intentional cycle of having plans to.

look ahead to. And it could just be. making dinner with friends this weekend. It might be going to a live concert like. we did with one of our friends that we. hadn't seen these friends for two years. We're like, why don't we go for a. concert with them? That's part of our. 30th wedding anniversary. And to me, it's made a huge difference. And it does. something that really again takes me. back to the beginning of when we met and. when the whole future was just wide open.

and you feel when you're with your. person like we have a shared vision and. we're going to do this together. And you. can find your way back to that. I. believe and you can find your way back. to it with these three things we're. talking about that four words. You're my. favorite person. This lesson around softening and. remembering you are in a relationship.

with your partner's unfinished business. Just think about them as little. 8-year-old and you probably won't scream. at them. and there's an opportunity to grow. together instead of to hold grudges and. to lean into each other. That's the. opportunity. And then the final thing is. like really thinking about the fact that. your relationship is a third person in. the relationship. like it's you and. you're responsible for certain things.

for yourself and me and I'm responsible. for certain things for myself and you're. responsible for supporting me and I'm. responsible for supporting you in ways. but there is this relationship. that needs our attention otherwise it's. going to die and so those things that. reinforce alignment things to look. forward to planning the calendar every. week uh checking in h how can I help you. this week what do you. uh prioritizing seeing friends and. family that reinforce like the good.

years and the memories and you know what. you've all been through because there's. so much value in being reminded that. yeah, you've been through things and you. can come out the other side. >> Yeah. Yeah, the only thing I would add. to that is just, you know, the constant. recognition of the changes that are. occurring because in the honeymoon. phase, you don't want anything to change.

and you don't imagine anything changing. And the reality is that change will. occur. And coincidentally, many of us. are seeking change over time. But we. certainly can't anticipate. all of the ambiguities that are going to. pop up when these changes are occurring, whether we are forcing the change or. they are being forced upon us. And I. think stopping and acknowledging those.

along the way as being sources sometimes. of things like grudges and what have you. can be helpful. >> You know, I'm I'm thinking about the. fact that our daughters. will often say to me, I really like. really want to find someone like dad. I. really hope I have a marriage that's. like your guys. Oh my gosh. And you know. what I say to them? I say first of all. the man you see at 57 is not the man I. met at 26. So there have been a lot of.

skill building. There have been a lot of. water under the bridge. There's been a. lot of growth. Our marriage when we. started did not look like it looks. today. And so if you're in that spot where. you're like is this my person? Is it not. my person? Will I ever have the. Do you think. that you could spend 30 years with the. person that you're in a relationship. with? And over the course of 30 years, is this person the kind of person that's.

willing to lean in and work on it and. grow with you? that was clear from day. one was our mutual interest in growth. and learning and understanding first and. foremost of ourselves about ourselves. But the fact that we wanted to jump into. that pool together was. very very attractive. >> I think that's how you know you're with. the right person. You feel like.

yourself. You see a shared vision. of growing old together. You share. values and have some overlapping goals. and dreams about the way you think about. your life and the things you want out of. your life. And you're both willing to. lean in and grow together. You have. that. You have one of the single. greatest gifts that you will ever. experience in life. Chris, is there anything else you wanted. to say?

>> No. I mean, it sounds trit, but I just. love the fact that we've had 30 years, even though lots of them were tough. I love that we're still in it together. I love that we took the time to learn. some of these things, to. give each other the space to learn these. things, which I know at times didn't come easy.

Uh, but I. I am. feeling lots of gratitude for our 30. years. >> Well, we definitely grew together. majorly. >> and like I I do remember times where I'm. like this is just a moment. This is not. the whole marriage. This is just a. moment. We will get through this. Things will be. better again. And I really do wish.

though that the three things that we. shared today, you and I had had going. into this marriage. And I'm grateful that we have these. tools. as we continue forward in it because I. know we're celebrating 30 years, but I. was thinking about it today. I can't do math very well, but I would. really I'm trying to think of the math. here, guys. Like, if I live to be.

100 years, what would 75 be? So 75 would. be 45 more years. Oh god, that's 102. No, it'll be another 20. >> What? No, we've been married 30. >> Oh. Oh, in our marriage. >> Yeah. Wouldn't it be cool to celebrate. our 75th wedding anniversary? >> Is it even possible to live that long? How old is that? I'm 57. >> We need another We need another 45. years. >> Wow. 45 years I get to spend with you. >> As long as I'm not drooling on myself. Yeah, that'd be awesome.

>> You'd still be my favorite person. [laughter]. [sighs] I wonder about that. [laughter]. [sighs and gasps]. >> Oh god. I would love to reach our 75th. wedding anniversary. That would put us. at 102. Do you think we can make it? >> I think we're. doing all the right things to try to get. there for sure. >> All right. Well, let's put it in the. calendar.

[sighs and gasps]. Well, I just want to remind you that on. our second date when we declared we were. going to marry each other. I hesitated to say that I wanted to. spend the rest of my life with you. I. really thought about it in the moment. like should I tell her that cuz I'm. feeling that. And the reason why I did. feel that and I said something on our. second date was because in that moment I.

had a visual of you and I very old in. two rocking chairs on the front porch of. an old house. And that vision popped up. in my head and I thought I really do. want to be in those rocking chairs. together. And that's what compelled me to even say. I want that. So yeah, amen to 102. Hopefully [laughter] hopefully. >> let's create it. Chris Robbins, let's. create it. Um I am.

so happy that you were here with me and. Chris. Thank you for taking the time to. listen to this. Thank you for watching. it. Like you cannot listen to or watch. this conversation. with the person you're in a relationship. with and not feel compelled to have a. deeper conversation. There's just no way based on what Chris. shared, based on what I shared, based on.

these lessons, based on the topics that. we covered that I'm sure I could almost. feel you nodding along like that's me, that's my partner. And if there's one. thing that we kept coming back to over. and over and that we've come back to is. that you can't solve problems you're not. willing to talk about. and you'll never. process feelings that you keep burying. And hardening isn't going to improve. your relationship. So, if you really do.

want to go the distance with one. another, and of course you do, that's. why you're listening, why not soften? Why not find your way back to this. person that you fell in love with? And. we are here to tell you because we've. been through Halenback, it is absolutely. possible. And these simple lessons that. we shared and some of the simple tools. that we've used have helped us do that. And in case no one else tells you, I. wanted to be sure to tell you as your. friend that I love you and I'm sure.

Chris loves you, too. And we believe in. your ability to create a better life. And part of what makes for a much better. life is more fulfilling relationships. And I know that what we shared with you. will give you the tools to create them. All right, I'll see you in the very next. episode. I'm going to welcome you in the. moment you hit play. All right, thank. you for watching all the way to the end. on YouTube. And I know you want to watch.

another video. And I know you're. thinking, "All right, Mel, what episode. should we watch next?" Oh, you're going. to love this episode of the Mel Robbins. Podcast. [music] I'll welcome you in the. moment I hit play.