Would-Be Reagan Assassin John Hinckley Jr. on Trump Assassination Attempts & Jodie Foster Obsession

Today on the Megan Kelly Show. >> There's been such a negative image of me. for like 45 years. Megan, I'm just a totally different. person from the person I was in 1981. >> Mr. President. >> Shots were fired. >> That's President Reagan as he was coming. out of the Washington Hilton Hotel this. afternoon. >> Details are very sketchy at [music] this. moment. >> He was wounded. >> God. >> [music]. >> Man in custody, John W. Hinckley Jr. >> I just had a weak, dark heart.

>> An obsessive infatuation for a young. actress. >> I thought I had a real relationship with. Jodie. >> Just get me out of here, all right? >> The obsession really started after I saw. Taxi Driver. De Niro was trying to. impress this woman. >> You talking to me? >> I thought if I shot the president, Jodie. would be so impressed. I liked Reagan. But he was a nice guy. >> Polls show that some 19% of in. particular young people on the left. think it's appropriate. Did you ever. think you'd live to see the day? How. does that kid wind up shooting the.

president? Did you feel like a. celebrity? Why was Ted Bundy writing you. letters? Jodie Foster, does she have. anything to worry about now? >> Do you forgive John Hinckley? >> Yes. >> Did you ever have the chance to. apologize [music]. to any of the four men? >> There's actually still have people who. who go online and they say, "John, we. need you again. You can do it again.". >> Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly Show. Today, we are. joined by a man whose name most. Americans know.

John Hinckley Jr. He was only 25 years old on March 30th, 1981 when he attempted to assassinate. the president of the United States, Ronald Reagan. >> As the president's limousine zoomed off, police pinned a suspect against the. stone wall of the hotel. >> Authorities say John Hinckley attempted. to kill President Reagan in order to get. the attention of actress Jodie Foster. >> Both federal and local authorities say. the letter allegedly written by Hinckley. also contained a sentence reading, "I.

will probably die for what I am about to. do.". >> Following a widely publicized trial, Hinckley was found not guilty by reason. of insanity. >> However long he stays in custody, he is. to be hospitalized. >> He will be quickly committed as a. patient at St. Elizabeth's Federal. Mental Hospital in Washington. >> I think it's a a real unlikely situation. that he would be out on the loose in any. reasonable period of time. >> He spent over 34 years in psychiatric. confinement until 2016, when he was.

given a conditional release and a full. release later in 2022. >> Hello everybody. This is another one of. my original songs. >> He now lives in the Williamsburg, Virginia area, where he spends time on. his music and his art. >> You don't [singing and music] know. a different side of me. >> Hinckley recently spoke out after the. assassination attempt of President. Donald Trump at the White House. Correspondents Dinner this spring, which. took place at the hotel dubbed by many.

the Hinckley Hilton. Joining me now, John Hinckley Jr., musician, author of. the memoir John Hinckley Jr., [music]. Who I Really Am, and attempted assassin. of President Reagan. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Let me tell you. something. When you sign your insurance. policy for some brokers, that's it. They're done. They got their commission,

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One super agency, one powerful, easy-to-use platform. All your policies. in one place. Go to supersure.com/megan. and check it out. Wouldn't it be nice to. have a little hand-holding as you go. through this. crazy process? Paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. John, thank you for being here. >> Hi Megan, how are you? >> I'm doing okay. How are you doing? >> I'm doing good. >> All right. So, it's a remarkable story.

and I Well, you caught our eye because. you were speaking out about the most. recent assassination attempt on the. current sitting president. And as you. and I are sitting down together, the. news is just breaking that they have now. rescheduled. that White House Correspondents Dinner. The president had said, "We have to do. it. We can't give up on it. We can't say. it's just off because of this terrible. event." And now we get news that that. it's going to be held this time at the.

Waldorf Astoria. So, they've changed the. venue, but they are going forward with. it in the summer months, in July. What. do you make of that? >> Uh I guess I'm glad it's not at the. Hilton cuz um. I don't think it's a very safe place to. hold events like that. I mean, the Waldorf Astoria doesn't. sound too much safer to me, but. hopefully things will go well. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously you know of what. you speak. Um. is it from your personal experience that. you draw that conclusion?

>> I mean, it's it's a it's a massive the. Wal- Washington Hilton is a massive. hotel. and. um. you know, it's just not safe to have so. many people milling around and. um kind of unmonitored. So, the Waldorf Astoria, I'm sure they'll. have tighter security, but um. it's interesting that they rescheduled. it so fast. >> What was your reaction, John, when you. saw. that another. would-be gunman stormed the same hotel.

where you committed your act all those. years ago? >> I just, you know, this is like the third. or fourth attempt against President. Trump. And. um. it's just it's just I just can't believe. this is going on cuz there's just so. much violence in America right now. and it's hard to watch the news. cuz every time you turn on the news, there's a there's this. all this carnage going on. So, um.

I just, you know, after the first. assassination attempt on Trump, I think I posted on X that violence is. not the way to go. and that's still what I believe. >> Mhm. Uh I mean, is that something. like it describe your journey to to that. point, you know, from that point in 1981. outside of the Hilton to that tweet? >> Well, I'm just Megan, I'm just a totally. different person from the person that I. was in 1981, totally different.

And that's why I wrote the book actually. was. to show the public the way that I really. am now. There's been such a negative image of me. for like 45 years. and people think that I'm the way the. way that I was back then. So, hopefully. they if they read the book. there's also documentary out there that. I participated in. >> It's a pretty big delusion to think you. can shoot the president and impress. somebody. >> If they watch the documentary.

they'll see they'll see that I'm not the. person that I was back then at all. I'm. a totally changed man. >> Mhm. And you you're against violence. now. >> Very much so. >> Did you learn that, John? Did you have. to learn that or was that something that. came to you as a result of. the psychiatric care? Like one day it. just sort of became obvious to you. >> Well, it wasn't just one day. I mean, it. just. to overcome overcoming my mental illness. that I had in 1981.

I just had a really dark heart. in 1981. I was, you know, thinking of violent. things. And when I came out of my mental illness. over the years. um I I just saw that violence, you know. as I said it's not the way to go and um. but it took it took some time to come to. that belief. >> Was your diagnosis schizophrenia? >> Um. amongst others. I mean, it was I think I.

think officially for a while it was. called a atypical psychosis. So, it wasn't really schizophrenia. Kind of an odd term called atypical. psychosis plus um. depression. >> And that that was managed with. medication and what? Psychotherapy as. well over all those years? >> Yes. >> Wow. I want to get to, of course, your. back story and your your journey in more. detail in a minute, but I'm just going. to stay on Trump for a minute just to.

kick it off. Um yeah, when you saw the the Butler. assassination attempt, which. you know, it the president was hit. Thank God it was just his ear. And of. course we saw Corey Campatori die, and. we saw two others hit. And and. you know, this is this was. somewhat similar to when. when you committed your act at the at. the Hilton all those years earlier. Thank God no one died that day, but. multiple people were hit.

Did your jaw drop? Was it especially. stunning to you? >> It was. I had I had a I had a friend um. text me and say turn on the television. So, I turned on the television. And I saw what was going on. I couldn't. believe it cuz um. I'm I mean I may be mistaken, but I. think that was the first assassination. attempt. since mine. uh back in 1981. I may I may not be right about that, but. it's the first one that I remember since.

1981. So, yeah, I was really shocked by. it. >> I certainly think the first one that was. so public and you know, actually we we. saw bullets flying at the president. It. was very very jarring. Um I know that you. you something disturbing happened to you. after President Trump won re-election in. 2024. People started to reach out to you. online with various messaging, and you. at first you weren't sure what they what. it was they were asking. And then when.

it be became clear, you were especially horrified. Can you. tell us about it? >> I I had I had and actually still have. people who who go online. go on my X account. and they say, "John, we need you again. You got You got to do it again." Things. like that. Of course, I don't think I don't think. that's funny. So, um. I think I put another comment out, you. know, "Please please stop with all the. negative comments. Um.

they're not funny.". >> Do you think these people are serious? >> I wouldn't know. I don't I I mean I. don't know who they are. >> I mean it isn't it shocking? Like I feel. like. I I don't know. You tell me. In 1981, you were suffering with a psychiatric. psychiatric disorder with mental illness. and that's what led you to do what you. did. So found jury and uh shortly. thereafter. But. today. political violence is growing in.

popularity. Bizarrely, the polls show. that some 19% of uh in particular young. people on the left think it's. appropriate in various circumstances. Do. you ever think you'd live to see the. day? >> No, that's terrible. I did I never heard. that statistic, but um. Yeah, I mean political violence is. growing. unfortunately. Uh we just we can't seem to. argue about things without it turning to. violence. Uh that's that's just it's a shame.

>> What do you want those people to know. who are thinking about that as an okay. option? >> Don't resort to violence. That's all I. can say. You know, I mean I'm sure they. got a lot of things going on in their. life like I had going on in my life back. in 1981. So I don't know, you know, it's hard to. talk people out of doing what they want. to do, but. uh I'm just here to tell you it's it's. violence as I said violence is not the. way to go.

>> John, have you ever heard the term. erotomaniac? >> Not really. >> Okay. Because when I read up on your. story, um I wondered whether that was a term. that applied to you because what I've. been told is that somebody who. can think that he's in a real. relationship with someone. even though the two people have never. met. The the. sort of focus his the person who is the. center of his focus.

doesn't know him at all and yet the man. thinks that they're in love or going to. be together and you know, maybe even. have had experiences together that they. haven't had. Does that sound like the. affliction that you were suffering under. when you became obsessed with Jodie. Foster and wound up shooting the. president in order to gain her. attention? >> sounds very very much like what I was. going through. I. I thought I had back in '81 and '80 and. '79 '78 I thought I had a real. relationship with Jodie.

And then by shooting the president I. would have this like magical. union with her and she would be so. impressed and all these things. So I guess that I guess if that's I. guess that's the definition of. erotomania but um. Yeah, I thought I had a real. relationship with her which of course. was not the case. >> How did that start? >> Just psychosis. I I. I was in the late '70s. I was developing delusions about her.

And that was just part of my illness. >> And did you believe that you were in a. relationship with her? >> Yes, I did. >> You did. So how how. I this you may not be able to answer. this but like how could you believe. that? You know, when you didn't know her. and she wouldn't respond to your letters. and you never spent time with her. >> rationalize it now because it's it's. it's it's a delusion so I can't say how. I how I did it just. how I did it was just being delusional.

and. thinking I was in an actual relationship. with her when of course I wasn't. >> Mhm. So it wasn't I know it was like the. movie Taxi Driver that people said. drove you to actually do what you did. She starred in it. Um was it the movie. Taxi Driver or had the the. been around pre. you know pre that movie. >> I knew about her. um. before Taxi Driver just just seeing her.

in a couple of things on TV I guess. >> How do ma'am? Moses bread and Dixie. back. Mom says my teeth will fall out if. I keep eating sweets. And aren't greasy. things bad for your stomach? >> I saw from advertising. that she was going to be in this movie. called Taxi Driver. So I went to see see the movie because I. knew that she was going to be in it. And. um. the obsession really started after I saw. Taxi Driver a number of times. That was. 1976.

So I had the. the obsession from 76. till 81 you know when I committed my. crime. >> Mhm. And then she got into Yale and I. understand you just went down to the. registrar at Yale. And they did they tell you what dorm she. was in like did they facilitate your. your finding her? >> I just went there and said I'm looking. for a friend who's a who's a um. who's a student here.

But I don't know which dorm she's in. Do. you do you all have a registration book. or something? And she gave me this book that I looked. through and found. her name her I mean her real name was. is her real name is Alicia. Christian Foster. And that's what I found her under that. name in in the registration book. And it. said what dorm said what dorm she was in. what her phone number was everything. >> Oh my gosh. I can't believe how easy it.

was. That's that's. disturbing. >> I agree. >> And then you you did go to her dorm room. as I understand it a couple of times. You slipped some notes there and you you. were calling her. You you did make audio. contact with her. Not she she didn't. accept the calls willingly. She didn't. know it was you, but you did manage to. actually call her, yes? >> I talked to her several times on the. phone. And I taped the phone calls. Uh which were later played in my trial.

Yeah, I talked to Jodi several times on. the phone. She knew me by name because.

each. the notes that I would leave under her. door, I would I would put my name on. them. I wasn't I wasn't doing it anonymously. I was putting my name on them. So and so when I talked to her on the. phone, she knew very well who I was. >> When you heard her pick up, when you. actually had contact with her, do you remember was that different from.

the delusions in your mind? >> No, it just I couldn't I mean I couldn't. believe I was actually talking to Jodi. after you just watched her on the screen. so for so long. I was actually talking having a. conversation with her. So you know, I was having to kind of. pinch myself cuz I couldn't believe it. But it was still all part of the. delusion I had going on with her. >> Mhm. And could you tell that she was. scared?

>> Well, she wasn't really scared on the. phone calls, but she was saying. you know, I can't really be talking to. strangers on the phone. Um and I you know, and I think I said something like, well, I promise you know, I assure you I'm not. dangerous.". And she said, "Well, I still can't be. talking to strangers on the phone." I. had about three or four conversations. with her on the phone. >> Did you ever think that maybe she like. in the years since maybe she was scared. and she was just playing it cool?

>> Well, I mean this was pre you know, this. is pre assassination attempt. So, I'm. not sure how scared she was. I think she. was just saying it was just another fan. you know, calling her up. Uh. maybe she was scared. I don't know, but. she didn't she she didn't have a she. didn't sound as scared on the on the. phone. >> And then at one point you confronted her. face-to-face or not confronted but you. saw her face-to-face? >> I was walking past her dorm one Sunday. morning, I believe it was. and she was in front of her building.

exercising. and I I approached her. I knew it was Jodie, but I was kind of. thinking it back cuz she was you know, like shorter than I thought she was and. her hair was pulled back. But I knew it was Jodie, but I I was. I didn't know what to say. Um I I should. have introduced myself, but I didn't. know what to say. So, I asked a stupid. question. I said, "Please excuse me, do you know. where the library is?" Which of course.

is. I don't know why I said something like. that. I was just trying to. speak to her. And she pointed out to where the library. was and I was on my way, but. I totally regret not introducing myself. to her. >> What did that mean to you? Do you. remember like to have seen her and. actually had an exchange? >> Um. I mean after I started walking away from. her, I just I just said, "Why didn't I. Why didn't I talk to her and introduce. myself and that kind of thing?" So, I.

really regretted what I did just. it happened being the the shy fan asking. her. a dumb question like where where you. know where the library is. >> So, in your mind at this point are you. still thinking if you had said something. clever, something funny, something. charming, you could have had her? You know, like. it would have been the beginning. >> I think so, Megan, because at that point. I still had the delusion with her that. if I had just introduced myself, she would have oh, John, yeah, let's.

let's let's go have coffee or something. like that. Um that that was my thinking because I. was still. thinking that, you know, I was in this. relationship with her. >> Mhm. The Washington Post in 1981 and the New. York Times, same, reported that you had written dozens of. poems, letters, and messages to her, calling her dorm room at least five. times, reporting that you spoke to her. twice over the phone, and that you. tape-recorded the conversations, as you.

said. Uh she was then 18 years old. They. report in the first phone call, you im-. immediately introduced yourself saying, "This is the person that's been leaving. notes in your box for 2 days.". A transcript of the call where you. repeatedly said you just wanted to talk. um to her reads as follows. She said, "Seriously, this isn't fair. Do me a. favor and don't call back, all right?". You said, "How about just tomorrow?" She. said, "Oh God. Oh seriously, this is. really starting to bother me. Do you.

mind if I hang up?" You said, "Jodie, please.". She later said she received three. batches of hand-delivered letters from. you in the fall of 1980 and from March. 3rd to March 6th of 1981. Hearing that now, John, does that. does that strike I mean, to me, she. sounds scared. Yeah, it does. She says, "Oh God.". >> I I I agree. I agree. She sounds pretty. scared, yeah. >> You can see it now in retrospect. I. mean, she's she's always been very.

mature, but she's an 18-year-old girl. alone at college for the first time and. some stranger sending her notes and. being way too overly familiar. Do you. see it? >> I see it now, yeah, yeah. I did. >> So, when we are talking about Jodie. Foster now, does that bring anything up for you? Do. you still feel. love for her? Like, how do you feel. about her now? >> Uh. I'm I'm to I'm very much over the. obsession that I had with her. You know, I I think of her from time to time just.

because. I. writing the book, you know, there's a. lot of. there's a lot of Jodie in the book. So, yeah, I've had to talk about Jodie a. lot and she's been on my mind for that. reason. But, um. you know, I can't say I have I I'm not. in love with her like I thought I was. back all those years ago. >> And I'm sure before they let you out of. the psychiatric care facility, they. wanted to make really sure.

that you were not still obsessed with. her. I mean, this this person who you. were obsessed with is still around. She's still on this. earth and in this country and I'm sure. they wanted to make sure she was she was. not in any danger. How How did they do. that, John? >> Just through asking me a lot of. questions and therapy and. you know, I have I was interviewed by. hundreds and hundreds of doctors. in my years in St. Elizabeth's Hospital. And, um over the years they came to see.

that I that I didn't have that obsession. anymore and. that I wasn't dangerous to her. >> How many years would you say it took? >> I think all through the '80s, 1980s. Um. I still had the obsession through the. '80s, I believe. I took it took until the in the '90s and. beyond. I mean, I developed a rela- a real I. develop- Early on in my stay at St. Elizabeth's, I developed a real relationship with a.

patient there named Leslie DeVeau. And. Leslie is the one who brought me out of. the obsession that I had with Jodie. >> Oh, really? So, that That helped. Did. you become obsessed with Leslie? >> I wasn't I didn't need to be obsessed. I. had a real relationship with her. We We. We had a relationship for 22 years. So, I mean I wouldn't call it obsession. It. was just a deep loving relationship. >> Because I I don't know if you've ever. heard this, but sometimes when someone.

is. an erotomaniac or a stalker type, they. will. have a fixation on somebody, and then. they'll have a fixation on somebody. else. That That's There's a belief by. some that the way you end it is by. you know, refocusing the person on a. different target. But, that That's not. what happened for you. She was your one. and only obsession you ever had? >> Jodie, yeah. She was. I've never I've never been obsessed with. anybody else besides Jodie. >> Mhm. And you were very very obsessed. So, you.

Do you remember the day you started to. seriously consider. hurting someone in order to get her. attention? >> It was after seeing the movie Taxi. Driver and going deeper into my. depression. and delusions in the night late late. 1970s, I got estranged from my family. I was totally I got totally isolated. And so, I would say in the late '70s, around 1980, is when I started getting dangerous,

starting think thinking dangerous. thoughts. >> And we should point out What What year. were you born, John? >> 1955. >> Okay. Where'd you grow up? >> Uh I was born in Oklahoma, but I I grew. up in Dallas, Texas. >> That you had a pretty normal childhood. from what I. >> I did. >> Right? You're I think the youngest of. three? >> I'm the youngest of three. I had a normal childhood. No no you know. no trauma, no abuse going on.

I had a loving family. So I can I can I. I can't blame my family at all for what. happened to me. Um. >> And no mental illness that you knew of. or that had had shown up? >> No. I mean later on in life my father. developed depression. but not not during my growing up years. >> So what do you remember like what was. the trigger for you? And how did you go. from this kid who seemed to do. relatively fine in school, you know,

nothing remarkable either way, not not. anything extraordinarily positive nor. negative. So how like how does that kid wind up. shooting the president? >> Well, I got sick. I got mentally ill and. delusional and. depressed and it wasn't an overnight. thing that I got dangerous. It it was a. gradual thing. I got caught up in. delusions about Jodie and. the the theme of taxi if you I don't.

know if you've seen Taxi Driver, but. >> I actually haven't seen Taxi Driver. It. does the guy try to shoot somebody in. order to impress someone he's focused. on? >> Yeah, um it is. I mean I got I was kind of. I totally could relate to Travis Bickle. who was the character. in Taxi Driver that Robert Robert De. Niro was playing. And De Niro was trying to impress this. woman named Betsy who was played by. Cybill Shepherd. Um. and Betsy was working for this.

presidential candidate. and Travis was going to go shoot. presidential candidate. >> The idea been growing in my brain for. some time. True force. All the king's men cannot. put put back together again. >> I don't know who's weirder, you or me. >> But in the meantime, he met Jodie. Jodie. was playing a prostitute. >> Get me out of here, Iris. >> named Iris. And he met Jodie. This theme developed. in the movie, this this rescue theme, of.

rescuing Jodie from her. life of prostitution. She was only like. 12 years old. So, rescuing her from this life of. prostitution. And I was just totally into this. character that. um. I was seeing Travis Bickle. and totally relating to that. So, that. could be a big thing that. further propelled me in my delusions and. uh what I did. >> And when that started, John, do you What. So, how old were you about then? Uh like.

20 or so? >> early about 20. In 1976, I was 21. >> Okay. That Well, that tracks. I mean, that's where a lot of young men in. particular have a psychotic break. Um. but do you remember during that time, were you still talking to your parents. by phone? Were you maintaining normal. relationships in your life? >> Um sort of. I mean, I was talking to. them by phone, yes, but I was living. I wasn't living at home. I was living in. a in apartments by myself.

And. um. getting getting depressed and. I was getting. isolated from my family. I was I was put I was pushing them away. They they weren't pushing me away. I was. pushing them away. >> Would they have known John is mentally. ill? >> They Around 1980, they could see that I. was not doing well, and my father. referred me to a psychologist that he. knew. So, I went to see the psychologist.

But the psychologist just thought I. needed a. needed like a kick in the pants. to straighten up. Um that you know, that's all he thought. >> No, you weren't on any medications back. then. >> No, and then and then also I saw I saw. when I was living in in um Colorado. in 1980, I saw a psychiatrist. that my parents found for me. And I did I did tell the psychiatrist. about Jodie. He didn't He didn't seem to. be too too concerned about it.

>> Right, cuz I mean now there there's a. duty for a psychiatrist to warn if they. if he thinks a patient might actually. hurt a third party. Um so clearly that that wasn't the case. from the sound of it. Did you. um. My understanding is you didn't settle on. Ronald Reagan right away. You. you thought about hurting some others. prior to him. How. can you walk us through that? How that. go? >> Well, 1980 uh Carter Jimmy Carter was. still the president and um he was.

campaigning, you know, for re-election. So um I started stalking Carter. Uh I was in Dayton, Ohio when he was. there. And I was in Nashville, Tennessee when. he was there. >> Thank you everybody. >> So I was kind of following Carter. around. >> President Carter was in the Tennessee. city conducting a town meeting at the. Grand Ole Opry. >> He got within arms reach of the. president, but he didn't bring his guns. with him. He left them in the luggage.

>> But then when Carter lost the election. my focus I drop I I dropped my focus on. Carter and started focusing on Reagan. >> Now, one I I read that in October of. 1980 you were arrested at the Nashville. International Airport after three. pistols were discovered in your suitcase. on the same day that President Carter. visited visited the city. My note to. myself reads, "How was he free?" Like. how how were you free? I mean, I would.

think that's the kind of thing that. could get you locked up for a long time. given that it you know, the the. president's coming there the same day. >> I think today it would have it would it. would have been what happened, but in. 1980. I I I I went I had to go before a. magistrate in Nashville. and he I got fined $62.50. They took my three guns. And. um I got out of town as fast as I could. >> Wow. That was October 1980.

The assassination attempt with President. Reagan was March 1981. So I mean it was. just months later. And uh you know, frankly, you should have been on their. radar, but yeah, it was a different. time. And it's a different time today. thanks in part to you. I mean in in your. behaviors. Um there was something involving Ted. Kennedy. Can you tell us? >> Um I don't remember that one as well, but I think I think in February of '81.

I went to his office at the Capitol. in DC. >> Do you recall if you were thinking about. attempting to assassinate Ted Kennedy? >> Yeah, because only because he was a. Kennedy. I I had nothing for or against. Ted Kennedy. Um. it just cuz he was a Kennedy. I mean. that's what that's my thinking I this. crazy thinking I had back then. >> This is from your book, chapter 18. Pulling into Senator Ted Kennedy's. office, I felt this was appropriate. Two.

of his brothers had been murdered. It. was fitting that he be next. I went to. his office, I stood outside the door gun. in hand. And then I didn't go in. I suddenly felt nothing. It was like I was killing just to kill. I wasn't going to do that. I wasn't. going to tee off and kill someone just. because they were known. >> [music]. >> This wasn't a grand enough gesture. If. I'd set out to kill the president, that's what I was going to do. Is that. an accurate recitation of how it went. down that day, John? >> It It's very very accurate, yes.

>> So I mean it's potentially just sheer. luck that Ted Kennedy. lived beyond that day. >> Maybe so. Also with Carter, I mean if. Carter had been reelected. I would have stayed after him. But I. just. as fate had it you know you know Carter. lost and. I became you know fixated on Reagan. >> that I will faithfully execute the. office of President of the United.

States. >> Was there any piece of you John who. looked at President Reagan and said. he seems like such a nice guy. He's. jolly. He's loved by his family. Does. that Does the person's humanity ever. sink in there or is that just. not. >> That's where my illness comes in because. I liked Reagan. I liked Reagan in 1980, 1981. He was an. I thought he was a nice guy. I'm sure I saw a movie or two that he. was in. My father loved Reagan. You know.

my family were big Republicans. I didn't. shoot him because I had an animosity to. him. I liked Reagan. So, that's [snorts] where my illness. comes in. >> Mhm. Did you vote for him? >> No, I didn't I didn't vote that year. >> Okay, for anybody. So, how did you get the idea to show up. at this hotel. and shoot the President of the United. States? Like what. >> Well, we. >> the movie Taxi Driver, but that was a. couple years earlier.

>> A week prior to the shooting. I flew to Los Angeles. I was going to I was going to make one. last attempt to make it in my with with. my music. I I had been living in Hollywood in 1976. when I first saw Taxi Driver. But in 1980, 81 I was going to make make. one last attempt to have a career in. music. So, I flew out to LA. But, when I got to the LAX Airport, I.

couldn't I couldn't function properly. And, um. I I thought to myself, "What am I doing. out here?". I got on a Greyhound bus I went to the. Greyhound bus station. Got on a Greyhound bus. and went cross country on this bus. the week prior to the shooting. I arrived I arrived in Washington D.C. um March 29th. Checked into a hotel.

the next morning. I saw Reagan's schedule in the. newspaper. His schedule for the day. And, I saw that he was going to be at. the Washington Hilton. And, so that's how I knew where to go. on March 30th. >> Wow. And, it is it's amazing to this day that. they make the president's schedule so. public. That's how the attempted. assassin at the Hilton this past time. knew where President Trump was, what. time he was going to be there.

You know, we're still we're still doing. that. Is that unbelievable to you? >> Yeah, it is. Uh. I guess I guess you have to do it cuz. everybody all the press and everybody. wants to know wants to know exactly. where the president is and what he's. doing minute by minute. So, I guess. that's why they do it. >> I I take it you don't think that's a. great idea. >> No. No, not at all. They should they should not. >> They shouldn't. I think I think they did stop putting. his putting president's daily schedules.

in the newspaper. Um. but, um. yeah, they shouldn't be giving they. shouldn't be giving out such minute. details about the president's schedule. >> No, they shouldn't. It's not necessary. for the rest of us to have that. So, you. go to the I mean, it's crazy cuz I keep. wanting to call it the Hinckley Hilton. You know they call it that, right? >> Yeah, I did. I heard that. >> It's crazy. So, they they. you go to what will become known as the. Hinckley Hilton, and you join the press.

corps outside that's waiting for. President Reagan, right? And I know this. is another area in which you've been. actually kind of critical of the Secret. Service. Tell us why. >> Well, I pulled up in a in a taxicab and. got out, and I saw where a little crowd. had gathered. So, I went over to the crowd. and got became part of the crowd. You know, no no security, no no Secret. Service. was was really paying attention to us. cuz I I was part of the press crowd.

So, Reagan's entourage pulled up, and he got out of the car. and walked towards the building, and he waved over, and it looked like he. was waving right at me, and it kind of startled me, and I waved right back to him, and he went on into the building. >> Ladies and gentlemen, the President of. the United States. >> And gave his speech.

>> Thank you very much. >> While he was giving his speech, I just. milled around. that area. No one was paying any. attention to me. >> And together, we'll make America great again. Thank you very much. >> That's so when Reagan came back out, that's when That's when I fired my. shots. >> So, no one had tried to screen you, pat. you down, ask you questions, make you go. through a magnetometer to get that close.

to the president? >> No, not at all. I'm sure today is I'm sure today is. different, but back then, not no one no. one approached me. >> Do you remember what it was like in the. moments before you pulled the gun out of. what? Your pocket? >> I had a coat on, and it was in my coat. pocket. Um. >> Do Do you remember that feeling? >> Not really. Well, um. I just I just You know what? I just. pulled out the gun and just started.

firing wildly in the president's. direction, and unfortunately, I hit. other people. And um. I do think I remember dropping the gun. to the ground. and kind of crouching, cuz I knew I. thought I was going to be shot by the. Secret Service. But instead, they they just jumped on. me. And people in the crowd started to. jumping on me and. pummeling me and. um finally I finally I got pulled out of.

the crowd and taken to the car. >> Were you afraid of being shot? >> Uh not really. I think I was I was. thinking if if I'm going to commit this. crime, the chances are really good I'm going to. be shot. Uh so. that was my thinking, but I think I. think because I was in such a crowd of. people, the Secret Service didn't start firing. They just they jumped on me. >> We have a bit of that moment here.

IT HAPPENS IN SECONDS. AND YOU WERE SO CLOSE. HOW many feet. away would you say you were from the. president? >> About 10 or 15 feet. >> Oh my gosh. It's stunning to watch. John, after it happened, did you have a feeling of, you know,

triumph? Like now now Jodie's going to. know who I am? >> Yes. I did. I mean, not not not while I'm. being pummeled, but. in the days that followed, I thought. yeah, I was going to have this this. reunion with Jodie that she would be so. impressed by what I did and. want to come see me and be with me and. all this stuff. I had that feeling. >> In addition to the president for well, three others were wounded. Press.

Secretary James Brady, his injuries. would be. >> James Brady. >> very severe. Yeah. Sorry, Brady. And he had a head. wound. He was critically wounded. There. was Secret Service agent uh Tim. McCarthy. [music]. He was shot in the side in the chest. There was DC policeman Thomas Delahanty. He was shot in the neck. [music]. James Brady has been the name of the. press room. He was the press secretary. and he's. probably the most famous of. the ones other than President Reagan who. were shot that day. A big.

>> [music]. >> advocate for gun control and gun safety. measures because of what happened to. him. And I wonder. like it and of course President Reagan. was shot. You did shoot him and it was. by the grace of God that his life was. not taken. I mean they said that they. had that bullet been, you know, an inch. the other way, he he would have been. dead. He didn't even know he'd been shot. uh until he got into the car and uh then. it became. clear, but it just missed his heart. He. had a collapsed lung. He walked into.

George Washington Hospital. and uh famously told his wife Nancy, "Honey, I forgot to duck.". So, when you think about that, when you. we hear those injuries, John, what what. does that do to you? What do What does. it make you feel? >> Makes you feel really bad. >> [clears throat]. >> that I that I hurt I hurt four people. that day. You know, one critically, James Brady. It makes me feel very bad. You know, part of the reason another. part of the reason I wrote the book, Megan,

is because people think I don't have. remorse for what I did. So, I wanted to bring out in the book. that I that I have tremendous remorse. for what I did. I just re- I just wish I could take it. all back. And um you know, I I I'm so sorry for. what happened. >> President Reagan. would give an interview to Larry King. about his experience there. Here's some of that. >> I didn't know I was shot. I heard a noise and we came out of the.

hotel and headed for the limousine. And I heard some noise and I thought it. was firecrackers. And the next thing I knew. one of the Secret Service agents behind. me just seized me here by the waist and. plunged me headfirst into the limo. I. landed on the seat and the seat divider. was down and then he dived in on top of. me which is part of their procedure to. make sure that I'm covered. What is it turned out later. the shot that got me. caromed off the side of the limousine.

and hit me while I was diving into the. car. And it hit me back here under the arm. And then hit a rib. And that's what caused an extreme pain. And then it tumbled it turned instead of. edgewise and went tumbling down. to within an inch of my heart. >> Amazing cuz the you know, the great. communicator as they called him still. sounding kind of optimistic and sunny in. the recitation of. his assassination attempt and then there. was this moment John. >> I didn't know.

for quite a while until they began to. tell me about the young man that had. done this. And what his problem was that he was not. exactly. on a normal basis. And so then. I added him to my prayers that. prayers for myself that well, if I. wanted healing for myself and. maybe he should have some healing for. himself. >> Did you forgive John Hinckley? >> Yes. I found out he wasn't. uh.

he wasn't thinking on all. >> levels. >> all. >> yeah. >> Did you see that at the time? >> No, I didn't. >> When was the first you saw that? >> Uh many years later I I saw it and um. was really touched by what. President Reagan said. Very touched. >> And it wasn't just him. Um Jim Brady. also spoke out about you a couple years. later. This is from 19.

82. >> Do you ever think about this man, John Hinckley, and what he did? I mean. >> Well, every day in therapy that I'm there. and. uh. taking my. my pain-ridden body around those two. gymnasiums that we've got down there and. and hurting every step of the way, it's. it's pretty.

pretty difficult not to think if while. you're in that situation. But I think dwelling on the past. uh smacks of revenge or. you know, I hope he doesn't win the. Irish Sweepstakes or something like. that. I'm not really wishing him any. evil. >> Not wishing him any evil. He was. paralyzed as a result of the shooting.

Pretty extraordinary acts of forgiveness. and kindness your way, John. Did Did. that. Is that something that they would show. you in the psychiatric hospital to help. humanize these guys for you? >> No, it wasn't until I was released that. um. I saw this some of the. I'd never seen what what you displayed. with with. Mr. Brady. I'd never seen that before, but. um. No, they. >> What's your reaction to seeing that? >> [clears throat]. >> Well,

I just um. with so much. I hadn't done what I did. that day because um. James Brady certainly deserved to have a. good life and. I took that away from him, but uh. I'm just very sorry for what I did. >> Did you ever have the chance to. apologize to any of the four men by. letter or other way? >> I wasn't allowed to. I mean, I I actually had a court order. that I couldn't I couldn't communicate.

with them. >> It makes sense. >> Yeah. >> I mean, to their family members who. may see this, what do you want them to know? >> That I'm very sorry for what happened. and I'm not the person that I was in. 1981 and. I do have I do have a great deal of. remorse. for what I did. And I'm just so sorry for what happened. >> And then there's Jodie. who. gave an interview after.

she learned of. what what had happened and that she was, through no fault of her own, a. motivation for it. She held a press conference in April. 1981 and here's a bit from that. >> Actress Jodie Foster, now a student at. Yale University, says that she was very. frightened. She cried when she heard. that Hinckley was suspected of. attempting to kill the president. Hinckley, it turns out, had been sending. letters to Foster for some time. >> Foster told reporters she received. several letters from Hinckley last fall. and threw them away, what she usually.

does with unsolicited mail. But she was. disturbed when more letters arrived in. March. >> I gave them to my college dean, who in. turn gave them to the Yale police. These. are now in the custody of the FBI. In. none of these letters and notes I. received was any mention, reference, or. implication ever made as to violent acts. against anyone, nor was the president. ever mentioned. >> How did you feel when you. noticed the possible relationship? >> I felt very shocked, very frightened, and um.

very distressed. >> Very distressed. John, do you Do you count Jodie as one. of your victims? >> Oh, yes. Definitely. >> Does she have anything to worry about. now? >> No, not at all. I'm not I'm not obsessed. with her, and um I only wish her well. >> Hinckley has applied to visit his. parents over Easter without an escort. And once again, there have been serious. objections. >> When we come back, the notorious. criminal pen pals who helped delay John.

Hinckley Jr.'s release. >> Startling revelation from Miller brought. the hearing to an abrupt end. >> And the letters that [music] left many. questioning whether his remorse was. real. >> Yeah, my my judgment was not good in the. in the 1980s. >> Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email.

me, too. Megan, m e g y n at. megankelly.com, or just leave a comment. down below. I do read them. I meander. over, and I scroll through, and I find. them very entertaining, and really. appreciate the feedback. But, in any. event, join the community by becoming a. subscriber, so you miss nothing. We. value your support. We may not always. agree on positions, but as you know, I'm. very open-minded to people who disagree. with me. That's how I learn. So, thanks. And thanks for trusting us to always. talk about it openly, honestly, and with.

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for up to 65% off, and make sure you use. my promo code Megan so they know I sent. you. Our sponsor, the Electronic. Payments Coalition, says Washington. politicians are always getting in your. wallet, and now they're messing with. your credit card, too. They say your credit card and the. security it offers are under attack, and. that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger. Marshall want to change the nation's. payment system to benefit corporate. megastores like Walmart and Target at. the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments.

secure and provide rewards that families. use to help make everyday purchases more. affordable. The Electronic Payments. Coalition says the Durbin-Marshall. mandates would let corporate megastores. cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks that have weaker. security and fewer protections. Find out. more at guardyourcard.com. and consider telling Congress to guard. your card. >> [music]. >> Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show and. our interview with John Hinckley Jr.,

the man who shot President Reagan 45. [music] years ago this past March. Today, he's a free man living in rural. Virginia. How is it that, after was it. 34 years? >> Yes. >> They said you could leave the facility. and go out on supervised relief release. if you lived with your mom in 2016. How. did they get to that point? >> Well, I I had um. gradual releases, you know, from from 3.

days to 5 days to 7 days to 10 days to. 17 days. So, my I was not just released. overnight. I over a period of years I. was getting these gradual releases given. to me given to me by the judge. And uh finally in 20 by 2015. the judge saw that I was ready for for. to leave the hospital, you know, as an. outpatient. And so, in I believe it was September of. 2016.

I left St. Elizabeth's for good and. never went back. >> Wow. I understand they were they were. considering possible release a couple of. times earlier. Um but, they found out once or twice. that you were corresponding with some. serial killers. which didn't exactly help your chances, right? Who. >> Right. >> Who did you correspond with? >> That was in the 1980s when I still was. going through my. recovery. Uh I had a correspondence briefly with.

Ted Bundy. And um some of Manson's followers were. writing to me. I never I never communicated with Manson. himself, but. Squeaky Frome uh. wrote to me several times. >> He recently received mail from Squeaky. Frome, the Charles Manson follower now. in prison for attempting to kill. President Ford. >> went to shake a hand and I looked down. and there was a gun in a hand pointed. directly at me. >> Yeah, my my judgment was not good in the.

in the 1980s. >> What Why Why were they communicating. with you? Why was Ted Bundy writing you. letters? >> Just cuz I was very well known back. then, you know, I was in the news all. the time and um. they wrote to me and. in those two in those instances. instances I wrote back. >> You write in the book in chapter 41 um. arriving at St. Elizabeth's. They admired me. I was famous. Not.

loved, but certainly familiar. These. people couldn't believe it was me. I. would be waiting in line for something. and suddenly everyone would move out of. the way to let me go up front. People. argued over who got to battle me in. cards or at the ping pong table. When I. started talking in group sessions, everybody shut up and listened fast. I. got a private room right next to the. main offices. Did you feel like a celebrity? Was that important to you? >> I mean, I did because when I when I. first went to St. Elizabeth's. I was on TV almost every day.

>> Opening arguments were heard and the. first witness is called. >> And the other patients would see me on. TV. and they couldn't believe I was standing. there right there in front of them. They were just in kind of kind of in in. awe of me. And yeah, I was treated much very much. like a celebrity by the patients. >> There's a debate going on right now in. society that I've taken a firm stand on. and it revolves around whether we should. as news media say the name of mass.

shooters or even potentially. assassins, you know, attempted assassins. because. it's it can be dangerous to give them. the infamy they seek. What do you think? >> Well, it's it's hard not to say their. name on the news because you're you're. reporting the story and the public wants. to know the. I think the public wants to know the. shooter's. name. I mean, for instance, the uh. after the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

he immediately knew that assassin's. name. They weren't trying to hide it or. anything. So, I think it'd be very difficult to. just not say the say the shooter's name. >> Mhm. And what about the widespread use of it. and repeating it over and over? What do. you think that does. >> think you need to I don't think you need. to do that, but I'm just saying in a in. a news story, it's kind of if you're going to report. the news accurately, it's it's kind of. hard not to say the name.

>> How do you think it would have affected. you, John? Do you have any any way of. you know, speculating if you had known. that if you did this dastardly deed, no one would say your name. Jodie Foster. would not know it was you. Your name. wouldn't be well known. You wouldn't be. famous. And then when you got to St. Elizabeth's, you would not get any sort. of star treatment. >> I don't think I would have done it. I mean, the whole the whole point of it. was to.

get Jodie's attention. And um you know, so she would know who I. am. So, yeah, I mean, if if my name was. going to be kept out of everything, I don't think I would have done it. >> What did you learn about Ted Bundy in. your correspondence? >> Well, it was brief. I can't He just We. It was a They were mundane letters. We. just talked about what we did during the. day. And it's hard to believe it. I'm you. know,

listening to reading about what Ted. Bundy does during his day in his cell. But that's I mean, the the letters were. just very mundane letters. >> I got I kind of feel like St. Elizabeth's kind of dropped the ball. there. Like I How are How are they. allowing this kind of influence on you. while you're in their care? >> Oh, I don't know. This is. I was getting so much mail back then. I. think they kind of lost track of. everything. >> Did you have any of the ladies who write.

you letters saying, "I want to be your. girlfriend or I want to get married?". >> Lots. Yes. >> You did? >> Yes. >> Did you get married or see any of them? >> I didn't get married, but I had a whole. lot of young ladies writing to me and. wanting to meet me and giving me their. phone number and address and. measurements and everything else. >> Oh, wow. And. did that just peter off and you know, over the course of the three decades or. what?

>> Yeah, it just it kind of dwindled out. over time. >> Yeah. The uh in your book you talk about the. Charlie Manson correspondent um saying. you did get one from Charlie himself. Yes, you write, "He knew of me. Apparently, he even liked me, saw me as. something of a kindred spirit." His. letter salutation was John Boy with a. nice little swastika right in the middle. of it. Do you still have these? >> Oh, no, no. These These The government. has those letters. I don't have the.

letters. >> Mhm. I mean, it's it's pretty crazy the the. life that. you've gone through. I I can't even. imagine. So, what was it, John? Was it. medication that helped finally. you know, you break free from this. mental illness that got you to the point. where this psychosis was no longer. debilitating? >> I think the main thing was my my long. 22-year relationship with Leslie DeVeau.

that brought me out of my depression and. psychosis. And yes, the medication. helped and the therapies helped. and some of the staff at Saint. Elizabeth's helped. Um. it just you know, as I got older, I just. got away from. a lot of thinking bad thoughts that I. had early on in my. life. >> Mhm. Were you What What happened to Leslie? >> Um. after 22 years, she just got tired. The.

government started uh focusing on her. and going through her going through her. bank records and her trash, and she just. said, "I can't deal with this." So, we. we we ended the relationship. She She's. no longer alive. I mean, she She died a. few years ago. But, um she just couldn't government. surveillance. >> Of course, we're speaking to John. Hinckley Jr., and some of these memories. are documented in his memoir, which is.

called Who I Really Am. It came out last. December. Who I Really Am. So, then. eventually in 2022, you were released. entirely. No conditions. You're on your own. And you've been living that way now for. some 4 years. How do you spend your. days? What's your life like now? >> I do what everybody else does. I go. grocery shopping and do my laundry and. take care I have two cats that I take. care of, and.

uh I write my songs. I do I do cat. paintings. Some of my little cat paintings to pay. my bills, to pay my rent. You know, I. have a quiet life here in Williamsburg. >> Do you ever get recognized? >> Occasionally when I'm in the stores. Peop- Peop-. >> How does that go? >> People come up to me and um want to take. a picture with me or shake my hand, or. >> Oh. >> Yeah. They They They say The main thing that. they say is, "I love your music." Hello,

everybody. This is another one of my. original songs. You only [singing and music] know what. used to be. You don't [singing] know a different. [music]. side of me. >> I do have a lot of my songs on Spotify. and the other streaming sites if anybody. wants to hear my. >> What do you like to sing about?

>> Um getting over hard times is the main. theme. >> The past it is gone. [singing and music]. It is over. >> I have a YouTube channel where I. sing my songs and I. I have all my songs on as I said on the. on the streaming sites. if anybody wants to hear them. >> And how what where's what's your YouTube. channel in case they do? >> It's just John Hickley. >> Okay. Are are any of your family still alive?

>> My brother and sister are. My parents. are deceased but my brother and sister. still alive. >> Are you in their lives at all? >> Oh, yeah. I just talked to my sister yesterday on. the phone. >> Okay, so they're supportive. How do you. pay your bills? Like how do you you know. make money? >> By selling my little cat paintings. I. don't I I don't make very much money. I. just I. barely get by. um paying bills and paying rent and.

>> [sighs]. >> paying for gas and all this stuff. >> And how old are you now? >> I'm. I just turned 71. >> Wow. So I mean you could have God willing you. know a decade or two in front of you. John do you. What do you think when you look back on. the measure of your life the vast. majority of it spent in a locked. facility because you were of course. found not guilty by reason of mental. defect. um and when that happens you get locked.

up until a psychiatrist team says that. you are no longer a danger to society. which is what happened since you were. eventually released and you look back on. your life now with a relatively normal. childhood obviously some sort of a break. in your early 20s. and the loss of your freedom for the. vast majority of your time here on this. earth. How do you assess. the measure of John Hinckley Jr.? >> Well, that I that I developed this bad. mental illness early on in my life and. that I overcame the illness, that I'm a.

survivor. That I've overcome so much. I have seen. so much. bad things. in my time at St. Elizabeth's. And. um. I've had a strong faith throughout all. of this. I am a Christian. I've had a strong faith throughout all. of this. And I just hope in my remaining days I. can. please the Lord. >> Amen. Good luck to you. Thank you [music] for.

coming on and telling your story. >> Thank you, Megan. >> It's a fascinating story. Again, if you. would like to read John's full story, his book is titled John Hinckley Jr., Who I Really Am. With political violence. once again part of the national. conversation, it is interesting and it's. valuable to hear from someone like John. Although President Reagan forgave. Hinckley, his children have had. differing views about Hinckley's. release. Reagan's daughter, Patti Davis, long opposed it. After a judge approved.

Hinckley's unconditional release in. 2021, she wrote, quote, "When someone. you love is gunned down, time doesn't. move on from that day, that hour, that. moment. That event is your prison and. there is no release from it.". I actually interviewed Michael Reagan. many times during my years at Fox. What. a great guy he was. I loved Michael. Reagan. In 2012, he expressed concerns about. Hinckley's release and he shared this. story from when he rushed to the. hospital to see his dad after he was.

shot. >> Everybody remembers my dad's sense of. humor during that period of time and he. was no different with family he was with. the public and I remember walking in the. hospital room and and my dad looking up. at me and going, "Well, if you're ever going to get shot, don't. be wearing a new suit.". And I said, "Excuse me?" Well, you know, yesterday I was wearing a new suit. I. said, "I know that." And he said, "Well, if you're ever going to get shot, don't. be wearing a new one." I said, "Well, thank you for the warning." And he said, "That young man who shot me, Hinckley.". I said, "Yes, John Hinckley." "I.

understand his parents are in the oil. business." I said, "Yes, they are, Dad.". "I understand they live in Denver." I. said, "Yes." He says, "Do you think they. have any money?" I said, "Well, I don't. know. I imagine they would have money. Oil business, Denver.". He looks at me and says, "Well, do you think they'd ever buy me a new. suit?". >> [laughter]. [snorts]. >> Not only, of course, did his have a. bullet hole in it, but they had to cut. it off of him when he was brought to the. ER. Michael, what do you think your dad. would think about this because he. famously forgave John Hinckley Jr.

Uh and, you know, as so many Christians. do, they they they. they forgive those who who trespass. against them. And that doesn't. necessarily mean you'd want them walking. free, though. >> Well, when I go out and speak and I. speak a lot about that, that here was a. man who actually lived the Lord's. Prayer, just didn't go out and recite. it. And I tell people, I said, "Interesting that bullet my dad is shot. and fell, first president to ever be. shot and and survived. But not long. after that, Pope John Paul is also shot. and survives. What did both of them do?

Both of them got down on their knees and. forgave their assassins. before they even left the hospital room. And then later on, Ronald Reagan and. John Paul would get together. And what. was it they could talk about? That both. of them. felt God had saved them for a purpose. And what ultimately was that purpose? The two of them ended up changing the. world. >> A few years later, Michael Reagan had a. change of heart and publicly supported.

Hinckley's release. He was such a. sweetheart. He said that if his father. could forgive Hinkley, then he should, too. Though he joked that his stepmother. Nancy Reagan would be, quote, pissed if. she were still alive. One final note, a few years ago on this. show, I spoke with Tom Baker, the first. FBI agent on the scene of the shooting. outside of the Washington Hilton. He. described the chaos of those first. minutes and hours. >> As I got out of my car, uh. uh a man came running up to me, a. Lieutenant Wilson uh of the Washington.

D.C. homicide squad, and he knew me from. a previous incident, and he had the the. revolver in a glassine envelope that his. officers had just taken off of Hinkley. And he said, "We have the gun. We want. to give it to you." And I said to him, "Hold on. Uh there's a truck from the FBI lab. coming.". >> What was that like? Within moments. coming up to a scene where the president. of the United States was just shot in an. attempted assassination. And you've got.

the lieutenant running over to you. saying, "We've got the gun." and trying. to give it to you. I mean, is there any. element of you as a man just feeling. like, "Oh my god.". >> That was exactly it. It was The oh my. god was that whole two or three minutes. riding up there. I knew this is really. something. We have to do it right. And. Hinkley, we know he was a disturbed. young man, but at the moment the. shooting happened, we didn't know that. So we were very concerned. Is this part.

of a bigger conspiracy? Is this part of something perhaps being. engineered by the Soviets, the Russians? Uh and are other people elsewhere going. to be shot? So that that first hour or. two early that day, it was. I describe it and later we looked up at. and we did a lot of studies about it. afterwards. It was a crisis situation. It evolved into a major case, but at. that first hour or two, it was we.

considered it a crisis. When they went. in, the surgeons to get the bullet, the. head surgeon couldn't clearly see the. bullet cuz it was literally behind the. heart. And another little side story. here is there was an intern there, an. intern being someone the first year out. of medical school, was on duty beside. the surgeon in the emergency room. And to assist the surgeon in getting to. the bullet, the intern reached with his. hand into the the open chest of the.

president and cupped the president's. beating heart in his hand and held it. aside like an inch or an inch and a half. so that the surgeon could reach under. the heart and take out the bullet, which. is what happened. It's amazing to think. of it this. 24-year-old is holding the president's. beating heart in his hand. It's quite a. remarkable scene. >> It's just remarkable to think about how. differently that day could have ended.

And. just how different the world would be. today had President Reagan actually been. assassinated. Thank God he lived. Tom. Baker shared many more incredible. stories. To watch our full episode, uh. search for episode number 456. Thanks to all of you for watching and as. always, let me know your thoughts. My. email's megan.megyn@megynkelly.com. We'll see you soon. [music].

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