Why Boys Are Falling Behind in America and the Truth About ADHD and Plastics, with Dr. Leonard Sax

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show. Today we dive. into the growing crisis among American. boys and young men. From classrooms to. the workplace to dating and marriage and. beyond, they are falling behind, becoming less ambitious, less resilient, and many lacking an overall sense of. purpose. There are many reasons why. changes in education, what they eat, the. fear of AI, the addiction to it, and. porn to name just a few. On the show.

today, a man who's got some real answers. on what's happening with our young men, Dr. Leonard Saxs. He has been. researching this issue for decades. He. is a practicing physician, psychologist, and best-selling author. And he is the. author of books like Why Gender Matters. Oh, subversive. It does. the collapse of. parenting. And every time he's on the. show, we get great feedback from our. audience wanting more. Today, he is with. me in person here in the red studio to.

talk about his new book, an update on. his bestseller from nearly 20 years ago. It's called Boys a Drift: The Six. Factors [music] Driving the Growing. Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys and. Underachieving Young Men. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself? Life. constantly bombards us with silent. threats, processed foods, artificial.

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and recovery, which is why cholesterol. has long been valued by some elite. athletes as well. If you are looking to. take back control of your health from. the inside out, consider Arra. And they. have a special deal for you. Go to. armra.comgan. or just enter Megan and that will get. you 30% off your first subscription. order. That's a great deal. A. rmr.com/megan. >> Dr. Saxs, welcome back. >> Thanks for inviting me. >> Oh, it's great to have you here in.

person. >> Yes, indeed. >> It's, [music]. you know, when I read up on you and the. studies and this book, I felt sad. I. felt for Lauren as the mother of two. boys and a daughter, but you know, this. is about the boys and just about the. state of American men today, like from. the fact that they are being treated as. problems from the time they're in. kindergarten to the fact that they're no. longer having sex with real women,

>> wanting to get married, wanting to find. jobs, wanting to date, to the sad cases, some of which we featured on this of. kids committing suicide because they. become too enraptured with an AI. chatbot, >> whether it's a quote regular one or a. sexy girl type one that's not real. >> Um I I don't even know where to begin. Like is it where is where do we begin?

Like to begin to solve all of this. So. let's start I guess at the beginning. Um. first of all, you've updated this book. Why? Why? >> Okay, so as you mentioned, the first. edition came out 2007. And why did I write it? Well, I'm a. family doctor. I've been a family doctor. more than 30 years now. And in so many. families, uh I'll think on one family where the. parents are very concerned about their. son. He was 16 years old at the time we. had this conversation. And he's not.

doing well in school. He's basically. failing Spanish. Couldn't care less. spends his free time playing video. games, looking at porn. Father said he's. a total goofball. They're very proud of. their daughter who's basically a. straight A student, captain of the. varsity soccer team. The girl is shining. and the boy is a drift. And I saw this. pattern over and over and over again. The reverse pattern where the boy is a. star and the girl is a drift. Very, very.

rare. Mhm. >> So why is this same parents, same. household. uh but very different outcomes? And that. was the motivation for the first edition. of boys of drift which I wrote 20 years. ago. Now 20 years ago we didn't have all. the evidence we have now and things have. changed a lot in 20 years which is one. reason one of many reasons we needed a. new addition. you know, the Journal of. the American Medical Association, JEM. was kind enough to review my book 20.

years ago and they said it's they gave. it a great review, which we put up the. blurb on the cover. Um, they said, you. know, very helpful, lots of good. references, but they said it doesn't. really make a good case that boys are. falling behind. Well, 20 years ago, we. didn't have all the data. Now, we have. the data. We know that boys are falling. behind. Richard Reeves. I've had the. great privilege of working with him and. and writing a paper for him. Wrote the. book of Boys and Men. He founded uh the.

American Institute for Boys and Men and. they've been doing great work gathering. data from the United States nationwide. So you can now go to their website. aibbm.org ORG and you can see they've. documented it that girls are now doing. better than boys in every subject. including math and science in every. grade level K through 12. Uh girls are. now much more likely to go on to a. four-year college than boys are. Four-year colleges in the United States. are now roughly 6040.

um uh girls to boys. Um and women under. 35 with no children at home are now out. earning men under 35 with no children at. home by about 20%. Uh because they're they're um they're. more likely to be college educated. They're working higher paying jobs. You. know, and I've done this presentation, various versions of this PowerPoint for. all different kinds of audiences. And. sometimes the push back is pretty. hostile. I was invited to speak to the.

elected trustees of the Toronto school. district, which is the sixth largest. school district in in North America. And. the the uh director, we'd call him the. superintendent, invited me because he. wanted to have he wanted to begin gender. aware instructional strategies, girlfriendly computer coding, boyfriendly English, and he wanted me to. explain to the to the board members why. this is a good idea. Well, the push back. was very hostile. And one of the board members said, "Hey,

so you're telling us we should be. concerned about the fact that women now. outnumber actually that women now. outnumber men at university by 3 to2?". Well, 50 years ago, men outnumbered. women 3 to2 and nobody seemed to care. much about it. Now the pendulum was. swung the other way. Uh look, the. trustee continued, "Men have most of the. money. Men have most of the power. Most. of the politicians are men. Almost all. the billionaires are men. And the few. billionaires who are women like.

Mackenzie Scott Bezos and Melinda French. Gates are the ex-wives of men. Men have. the money and the power. Explain to me. why we should be concerned about boys. falling behind. And I said, I've got an. answer. One word, mating. >> Women. I was thinking the same. 50 years. ago, if a man graduated from four-year. college and he was looking to marry a. woman, he might have a number of. qualifications in mind for his bride, but educational attainment was not one.

of them. If she was pretty, that would. satisfy. Today, if a woman has graduated. with a four-year degree and she's. thinking of marrying a man, she's. looking for a man who is as accomplished. and motivated as she is. And there are. not enough good men to go around. And. this is not confined to college educated. women by any means. So I'm a family. doctor. I'll tell you a story from my. own practice. So a girl I know well. I've known her since she was a toddler.

This story takes place. She's 20 years. old. I said uh Lauren, I bumped into. Brett the other day and he's just going. on and on about how great you are and. how funny you are and how pretty you. are. And he told me he's asked you to. marry him. He's asked you to marry him. twice. Lauren, how come you don't want to marry. the father of your two children? And she. said, "Dr. Sex, I already got two babies. at home. I do not need a third." Uh. >> oh. >> If a woman's going to marry a man, she's. looking for a man who is as motivated.

and hardworking as she is. And this is. true across every demographic. College. educated, not college educated, white, black, Asian, Latina, makes no. difference. And there are not enough. good men to go around. So, in the new. edition of Boys of Drift, I paid the Financial Times 450 bucks for. the rights to repro reproduce one of. their graphs, showing this dramatic drop. in coupling and fertility. So, coupling. means marriage plus cohabitation. Been a. dramatic drop in marriage over the last.

30 years. And sometimes when I'm I'm. doing one of my talks, uh person will. say, "Well, you're just showing how old. you are. People don't get married. anymore. They live together." Okay, that's cohabitation. Cohabitation is. dropping as well. Marriage plus. cohabitation demographers call coupling. So in the new edition, we got this graph. showing this dramatic drop in coupling. and dramatic drop in fertility. If a. woman's going to have a baby, most women. would like to have a father in the home,

a man that they trust, a man who's as. hardworking and motivated as they are. And as I've said several times now, there are not enough good men to go. around. That was my answer to the board. member. That's why we should care. >> So we're not we're not producing men. with four-year degrees or even just. aggression and drive to get to where. they want to go professionally, to be a. hard worker, to, you know, be able to. provide for a family. At the same time, we are producing women with those.

credentials. And so it's the mismatch. that the women are objecting to. >> Yes. and probably that the men are. objecting to as well. >> It's part of what women are objecting. to, but there's more going on. And when. we get to porn, we'll talk about that. There are many reasons why women are now. looking at young men and saying, "No, thank you." And and we'll talk about. that. And. >> educational attainment and and. motivation is part of the story. It's. not the whole story of why many women. >> have given up. So, the Pew Research.

Center recently surveyed young women in. the United States who are single, uh, 18. to 30, if I recall correctly, and said, "Okay, you're not in a relationship with. a man. Would you like to be maybe. serious relationship, maybe just fun. dating?" Only 35% said yes. >> Why? >> 65% said no. The majority of American. women have now given up. And scholars. have coined the term heteropessimism.

to refer to women's despair. and and hopelessness. >> Is that across political parties? >> Across all parties. This includes. Republicans as well as Democrats. Um um. and and so there's a bunch of factors. going on here. It's not just the fact so. so as one woman in my own practice told. me, she said, you know, I'm not so. bothered by the fact that I earn more. than he does. It's just that he expects. me to be his mother.

>> Oh, >> he expects me to pick up after him and. do chores for him and I'm not. interested. >> So, it's not just academic achievement. It's training boys to be good men. >> And we'll talk more about that in our. time this morning. The many domains in. which we are falling short. >> I mean, if you think back to, you know, the 1950s household where the gender. roles were pretty well defined. the. father was going to be the provider, the. person who worked outside of the home, the mother was going to be the doting.

wife and mother and make the meals and. keep the house clean. Um, a lot of women. didn't like it, but it worked. It it was. it's it's helpful to have clearly. defined roles and then you know which. one to play. But with women's lib, as. women started to get out of the house. and so on and so forth, I think it's. fine to have women who are the primary. wage earners, but there does need to be. a clear definition of the roles at home. Like I can say in my own home, if my.

husband were sitting around looking at. me like all of that was expected of me, I'd be mad too. You know, I wouldn't. But that's not how it works. You know, he and I have very clearly defined. responsibilities around the house. He. does what, you know, he is comfortable. with and what I've agreed to, you know, share with him. And I do what I'm. comfortable with. You know, like I don't. take out the trash. That's man's work. I. don't touch automobiles. That's his. work. Um I don't shovel snow. I don't. shovel walks. If things break down, that's for him to do. But I do do the.

predominant amount of cooking in the. house when it needs to get done. And if. somebody's going to unload the. dishwasher, it's probably going to be. me. Could be him, but you know what I. mean. And these this works for us. because there are certain roles that we. each fill, but I don't think you could. change one majorly and leave all the old. responsibilities. on the woman too. >> Well, [sighs and gasps]. I think there's been a lot of confusion. on this point. So for example, Richard. Reeves, who I mentioned earlier, and.

Kayheimits before him have said, "Changes in the culture and changes in. the economy are to blame for this. decline in boys achievement." Um, 50. years ago, you didn't need a college. degree. You could have a high school. degree, go to work at the our. autoactory, and make great money and. support a family on one income. Today, many of those factory jobs are gone. We've changed from being an industrial. economy 50 years ago to being mostly a. service economy today. And people like. Richard Reeves and Kayheim say that's.

what's the what the problem is. A and um. Kayheimitz wrote this book in which she. asserts that the rise of women is. responsible for the decline of men. That's literally the subtitle of the. book. >> Uh how the rise of women has turned men. into boys. And she argues plausibly, but I will say. incorrectly, she argues plausibly that. 50 years ago, men were motivated because. they expected to be the sole bread. winner.

>> So they they worked hard so they could. say to a young woman, "Hey, marry me. We'll start a family. I'll be a good. provider.". >> But as she documents in her book, under. you look at young Americans under 35, as. I've said earlier, with no kids at home, women are now earning more money than. men are. So men look around, they see. the women are doing better than them in. school, that women are earning more. money than them in the workplace. So. where there where is their motivation? I'm going to quote from her book. She. says the the um the men today are.

troubled by the lack of certainty about. their role as providers in the global. marketplace of the 21st century. >> Yeah, that makes quote unquote sense. >> It makes sense, but it's wrong. >> Oh, how's it wrong? >> It's not the correct explanation. How do. I know she's wrong? I know she's wrong because unlike. Kahheim Woods, I have visited more than. 500 schools over the last 25 years. Very. often when I visit a school, the format.

is morning meetings with students, afternoon workshop for teachers, evening. for parents. And that was the format at. this particular elementary school I. visited. And the very first thing on the. agenda was to meet with the principal. So I'm in the principal's office waiting. for her. She's busy. She's tied up with. something. And as I'm waiting, 1 2 3 4 5. 6 7 8 nine kids walk in. Discipline. referrals, all boys, >> of course. >> So, I pride myself on my ability to. strike up conversation with. seven-year-olds. So, I say to these. kids, "What are you doing here? What are. you in for? >> What are you having?

>> We got in trouble.". >> Our teacher said, "Draw a picture of. anything you want." And I drew a picture. of a rifle. and I got sit down because. it turns out that violates the zero. tolerance policy at this school for. weapons. Teachers saw me and Jason saying, "Bang. bang, you're dead.". Teacher saw me and Brett throwing. snowballs at each other. Boys doing things that boys have always. done now gets you in trouble. So I asked. these boys, "So what do you think of.

school? School's stupid. I hate stu. school. School's for girls.". Not one of these boys said, 'Well, I'm. uncertain about my role as a provider in. the global marketplace [laughter] of the. 21st century. Boys negative attitude. towards school starts early. And Deborah. Stipc, former de of education at. Stanford, found that those attitudes. once formed are global, stable, and. non-contingent. That's a fancy way of. saying that once that 8-year-old boy has. decided he's hates school, he's not.

going to change. you come back seven. years later, he still says he hates. school and he doesn't think there's. anything he can do or anything you can. do that's going to make a difference. So. the subtitle of my book is the six. factors driving there are six factors. driving the growing epidemic of. unmotivated boys and underachieving. young men and the first of those six. factors not necessarily the most. important but the first that I address. is changes in education. 30 years ago,

school was more friendly to boys. So, just recently, a mom shared with me her. story of her son. He's six years old at. the time this story takes place. He's in. kindergarten. And the teacher is holding. up some wooden sticks and some cotton. puffs and some Elmer's glue. And she. said, "Today we're going to make. willows. I'm going to show you each of. you how to arts and crafts. willow." Well, Jason doesn't want to. make a willow. He wants to make a. lightsaber. And he says, "I'm going to. make a lightsaber." And she says, "No,

we're making willows.". So, he glues a white cotton ball to his. wooden skewer and he brandishes at her, [laughter] channeling his Darth Vader. He says, "I find your lack of faith disturbing.". >> And she sends him to the principal. He's. got a discipline referral. He got four. discipline referrals his first two. weeks. And mom told me he came home the. end of the second week saying, "I hate.

school. >> I don't like school. >> I don't want to go back. School has become unfriendly to boys.". I'm old enough to remember 30 years ago, kindergarten used to be about duck duck. goose, singing in rounds, fingerpainting, going on a field trip to. the park to splash in a pond to chase. after tadpoles. Not anymore. American. kindergarten has become first grade. Schools across this country, public and. private, now expect 5-year-olds to sit. still and learn about dip thongs. [snorts] And that acceleration of the.

kindergarten curriculum took place. before we had the research showing that. the language area of a 5-year-old boy. looks like the language area of a three. and a halfyear-old girl. It is not. developmentally appropriate to ask a. 5-year-old boy to sit still, be quiet, and learn about dip thongs for an hour. And the result is 5-year-old boys who. decide they hate school, who decide. they're stupid. >> And once that attitude is formed, as. Deborra Stick and others have found, it's very hard to change. So in the. book, I talk about what do you need to.

do? Well, don't enroll your son in. kindergarten at five. Enroll him at at. six. Kindergarten has become first. grade. Find a play-based prek. give him that. gift of an extra gift of year of. childhood. Start him in kindergarten at six six. years of age. Um. I actually wrote about this 25 years ago. for the American Psychological. Association. Uh my recommendation that. we start kids in kindergarten at six.

years of age instead of five. And to my. great surprise, my obscure article. published in a scholarly journal was. picked up by the New York Times and. other media. And that is actually one. factor that led me to write my first. book, Why Gender Matters. Uh that I've. got the sense that some people care. about this. Um find a boy friendly. school. >> Yeah. >> What does that mean? So in in the new. edition of my book, Boys of Drift, I I. go into some detail about how you can. figure out on a one-day visit, is this.

school boy friendly or not? Ask to see. the honor role. You know, I was, as I. mentioned in the opening of the book, I. was visiting another school, middle. school, and when I meet with kids, it's. always question and answer. It's not a. long speech. It's a question and answer. So, I said to the students, this. assembly, I said, "All right, this next. question is just for the boys, gentlemen." I was just out in the. hallway. I was looking at the. principal's honor roll. There's 22 names. on the principal's honor roll. 19 girls,

three boys. Can any of you boys raise. your hand? explain to me why there's 19. girls but only three boys. And several. boys raised their hand and they all gave. a variation on the same answer. Girls. are smarter. Girls are smarter. Boys. believe this. And they believe it. because they've grown up in the world of. girls rule. Boys drool. Girls go to. college to get more knowledge. Boys go. to Jupiter to get more stupider. And. >> they see the evidence. They have seen. that girls are getting better grades.

than boys in every grade K through 12. So, if you're at a school where you've. got. 20 girls and three boys on the honor. roll, that's not a boy-friendly school. >> Yeah. >> The boys have disengaged. If you're. looking at elementary school, ask about. recess. Should be at least two recess a. day. >> In in our school, in our boy school, in. the elementary school years, the the. first period is recess or gym. That the. very first thing they do is run them. >> Yes. Well, and you mentioned an all boys.

school and I have visited a great many. boys schools uh over my uh school visits. and one of the first schools I visited. um Atlanta at Landon in Montgomery. County, Maryland 20 20 years ago. Um. I said to the teacher, "Where are the. chairs in this third grade classroom? Why are there no chairs?" And she said, "Well, everyone knows that 8-year-old. boys, they're better standing than. sitting." when that boy sits down, his. brain shuts off. I said, "Excuse me, I.

didn't know that." And I do have a PhD. in psychology. I do read the educational. psychology literature, and I'm not aware. of any research that supports your claim. that boys learn better standing rather. than sitting. But in her defense, it is. well known within that community of boys. elementary school that many boys learn. better standing rather than sitting. And. we now do understand the neuroscience. having to do with parasympathetic versus. sympathetic intervention in uh girls. versus boys respectively. Uh and these.

are one some of the strategies I share. with schools how you motivate boys make. sitting optional. >> It's not just that not quite that. simple. You make sitting optional in a. co-ed classroom. And I observed this. myself at Cunningham Elementary in. Waterl Iowa. This boy here is sitting. The boy on his right is twirling, making. a buzzing noise. The boy in his left is. flopping on the floor. He's on the floor.

flopping back and forth. He told me. this, his name was Tyreek. He told me he. was pre pretending to be a dying fish. And I asked the boy sitting, I said, "Were you bothered by what Tyreek was. doing?" He said, "Oh no, what was Tyreek. doing?". >> Look, if you try this in a co-ed. classroom, >> Yes. Yes, >> you got a girl sitting and the boy on. her right is twirling and the boy on her. left is flopping on the floor. She's. going to say, "Excuse me, >> how am I supposed to concentrate. >> with with these bozos?" So, you can do. this, but you have to have the boys. standing sit at the stand at the back of.

the classroom and you the teacher must. move around the classroom otherwise you. have classroom management issues. So, we're we're seeing an an interesting. microcosm of this as our kids get older. because our two boys go to a boy school, our daughter goes to a girl school, but. in high school, the boy school and the. girl school merge. And the what's. interesting is the the boys tend to say. the teachers favor the girls. when they. merge and they start going to classes.

where there are girls and boys, they. kind they like seeing girls, but it's a. bit of an eye roll because they're like. the teachers love all the girls because. suddenly you've got all these rule. followers there who can easily sit. politely for an hour or whatever it is. And the boys have been raised in a all. boy environment and are used to more. permissive teachers who understand they. do need to move more. They need to make. paper airplanes. They're still listening, but they need. to be able to and when you merge them.

together after, you know, in in those. environments. >> So, you're absolutely right that girls. across every demographic are more. concerned about pleasing the teacher and. boys are less so. And this is not true. This is not only true across all human. cultures, it's true across species. It's. as true in chimpanzees as it is in. humans. So, primatologists observing. chimpanzees in the wild. The uh mother. chimpanzeee is teaching the uh juvenile.

how to fish for termites. You take a. stick, you strip it, and you stick it. down into the termite mound, leave it. there for a moment, then pull it out. There will be termites on it. You can. eat them. And the girl chimp is paying. attention and following along. [laughter] And the boy chimp completely. ignores her and goes off to wrestle with. the other chimps. So this phenomenon. that girls are more concerned about. pleasing the adult and pay better. attention than boys do is robust. Meaning it is true not only across every.

human culture, it's as true in. chimpanzees as it is in true as it is in. humans. It is hardwired. >> So you need teachers who understand that. dynamic and don't penalize the boys for. being normal boys. >> Teachers who understand the differences. Fundamentally, you don't need girls. classrooms and boys classrooms as much. as you need teachers who understand the. differences. And that's a lot of what I. do. I share what I've learned with. schools. And if you understand that, then the boy same boy who loves video.

games will love Emily Dickinson will. love Jane Er. And the same girl who who. loves Siza and Ariana Grande will love. computer coding. >> That's so fascinating. That's so good. Yes, you do have to look at the actual. specific teachers. And I think you're. arming parents with the information to. push back. So if they keep getting. called in there or they keep getting. their son downgraded and then they find. out it's because of his quote behavior, there may be some layers to peel back. before you just exceed to that. >> Well, let me warn parents because my own.

approach to that situation has changed. So 20 years ago, I would have told. parents, hey, here's some research. Here's my book. Take this into the. principal. share this with them and see. if you can't get the principal to. understand that what a boy needs is. different from what a girl needs. I have given up on that approach because. it doesn't work. It simply is not. effective. You're not going to one. parent is not going to change that. principal's mind. And there's a lot at.

stake. In the new edition of Boys a. Drift, I share a longitudinal cohort. study showing that a boy who is. suspended from school once, the risk of him being incarcerated for a. felony in prison increases by 800%. >> Wow. >> One school suspension profoundly changes. a boy's attitude towards school. He now. regards teachers and administrators as. the enemy, and other boys who've been. suspended are friends. And most. remarkably in this study, they looked at.

boys who were suspended once and boys. were who were suspended 10 times. No difference. >> One suspension is all it takes to change. a boy's attitude. And once that attitude. is changed, it is global, stable, and. non-contingent. It's going to be very. hard to change it back. So if your son. is getting reprimanded, this is a red alert. you need to consider switching schools. >> And I'm not asking you to do anything I.

didn't do. My wife and I were very. unhappy with the choice of schools. available to us in Montgomery County, Maryland. So, I sold my medical practice. that I started from scratch in 1990 and. built up to 7,000 patients. I sold my. practice to my associate who's still. running it, I might add. U 17 years. later, um I we sold our home. You went to. Pennsylvania. >> and we moved to Chester County, Pennsylvania. And we've never regretted. it. Your kid has to be your first. priority. Above your work, above your.

home. If you have to switch jobs and. sell your home, that's what you have to. do. But if your kid is getting dis if. your son's getting disciplined referrals. on the verge of suspension, you've got to intervene immediately. >> That's very good to know. We we we did. the same. We moved. We fled from New. York City, not for these reasons, but. because of the woke schools. Uh, and. what what amounted to abuse in our. schools. I mean, I've told the audience. this, but in in our boy school, not only.

did they unleash a six-w week. transgender education program on the. children without telling us, where they. had the boys raise their hands and say. on a scale of 1 to five, how much of a. boy are you? >> Wow. >> 1 2 3 4 5 without telling us. This is. the third grade they did this. >> Oh my gosh. And then after George Floyd. of Palooa um they actually made it. mandatory reading amongst the faculty an. article by a ridiculous so-called. academic at some no-name school um who. posited that and I quote in every.

classroom where white children learn. there is a future killer cop. >> Wow. >> So we got the hell out of there. >> So. >> it's one of the best schools in the. nation ostensibly. You mentioned changes. and that's another big change that I had. to address in the new edition. 20 years. ago, teachers get didn't get in trouble. for using the phrase boys and girls. Boys and girls, would you please line. up? Yes. >> Wouldn't get teachers in trouble. Now it. will. >> That school that's an all boy school. won't say boy or son anymore. They just. say please collect your student.

>> Yes. because they will argue that the. terms boy and girl are heteronormative. and uh exclus exclusionary because if. what if you're non-binary, what if. you're trans? Uh and this is not just. blue states and blue cities. In Lincoln, Nebraska, which is not a blue state, um in. Lincoln, Nebraska, the official guidance. from the school board is you are not to. use the term boys and girls. If you do, you get a a a bliss a reprimand. You are.

to use the term purple penguins. >> Oh, good lord. >> Um, well, this is insane. >> Yeah. Well, at this school, the same boy. school, they they unleashed the. genderbred man. >> when we got I don't part of this. education program as not as not to be. confused with gingerbread, but. genderbread where he doesn't have, >> you know, one identifiable set. Exactly. Um, so that's and that we've just talked. about the first factor so far, but so.

many reasons we had to have a new. addition to address these new. challenges. You need to find a you need. to be sure that your school is. comfortable talking about boys and. girls, a school that understands that. what a boy needs to get excited about. poetry is different from what a girl. needs to get excited about poetry. And. if they don't understand that, if the. principal gives you a blank look, >> then you need to elsewhere. So how do. those boys who are having this. experience, the kindergarten versus the. first grade stuff, the sitdown, the not.

the absence of understanding on how they. learn, how to speak to them, how to. discipline them if they do transgress, and not demonizing things that are just. normal for boys, like drawing a rifle, which is fun for kids to pretend they're. soldiers, etc. [snorts] How do those. boys then wind up in high school, latter. part of high school, not wanting a girlfriend? not interested in sex or dating. Maybe. they'll go to college, maybe they won't. Maybe they'll get an active job, maybe.

they won't. But there and just feeling. apathetic. >> Well, let's move on to that second. factor now, which is video games because. that's a big part of it. A good. >> I was shocked by what I read about the. video games in the book. Shocked. We. when I was at Fox back in 2004 and five. >> and there were many people on Fox who. were lamenting these video games and. what they were doing the like the. violent ones and some of the driving the. auto ones. Um. >> and there were so many reactive pieces. rolling their eyes at these pundit like. oh my come on it's not the video games.

And I mean I'm here to say after having. read the book actually it is the video. games. >> It is. So, a real good question to ask. any boy to get a sense of where he is. Is he at risk for being a boy a drift? Ask this question. What's your favorite thing to do in your. free time when you are by yourself with. no one watching? And I often ask kids that question when. I meet with students. I'll ask I'll say,

"Raise your hand if you'd like to answer. that question." And a girl raises her. hand and she says, 'My favorite thing is. to play guitar in the style of Janice. Joplain. I said, 'W whoa, what's your. name, Melissa? You know, I don't know. Melissa, but I kind of feel like I do. because her favorite thing to do is to. play a guitar in the style of Janice. Joplin. If you want to get to know. someone in 60 seconds or less, ask them. that question. What's their favorite. thing to do in their free time? And just. over the 25 years I've been doing the. school visits, I have seen it narrow.

among boys. And the most common response. now from boys is video games. They want. to spend their free time playing video. games. And parents don't understand how. good the video games are. So RDR2, a lot. of parents don't even know what I'm. talking about. The video game Red Dead. Redemption has earned more than $3. billion. It's earned more money than the. first Avatar, the highest growing movie. of all time. And most people have heard.

of Avatar. Many parents have never heard. of RDR2. So, it's earned more money than. Avatar, even though it appeals to a. narrow demographic of boys and young. men. So, this is an incredible video. game where the phys physics are. absolutely realistic. You're living in the late in the 1890s. out west and it's a peculiar time. because the West is kind of becoming. modern uh and and it's a transitional. period. It's not the Wild West per se. Um, and how you interact with people.

matters. If you're how you interact with. your horse matters. If you're nice to. your horse and it gets loose, it'll come. back. If you're not nice, it'll run off. It won't come back. It takes about 40. hours to complete your mission in RDR2. And when a boy has accomplished that, they've told me, "It's such a great. feeling. I feel like I've really mastered. something." uh and will raise their. status in the eyes of their peers. Whoa, Jared finished RDR2. What a man. Um.

and we've got the research which I. present in that chapter of boys a drift. Time spent playing video games has gone. up. Time spent interacting with girls. has gone down. And many boys will tell. you they would rather spend their free. time playing video games than. interacting with girls. >> Uh you know, why would I want to. interact with her? I see her in algebra. class. boring. Um, so how do you want to spend your free.

time? Um, and we'll talk more about. testosterone levels because that factors. into this and we'll talk more about. pornography because that factors into. this. >> But video games, I'm not saying you have. to prohibit video games. The research. does not support that. So my brand is. evidence-based. When I make a. recommendation, long-term studies, >> I'm going to show you longitudinal. cohort studies. I'm going to show you. research that supports every. recommendation I make. How much time. spent playing video games is too much. time. No more than 40 minutes a night on.

school nights. No more than an hour a. day on weekends. And your minutes do not. roll over. >> So, no video game console in the. bedroom, >> right? >> You need to limit, govern, and guide how. much time your son is spending playing. video games. And you also need to limit. what games he is playing because really. awful games like Grand Theft Auto. So. Grand Theft Auto is a game where you get. rewarded for killing unarmed civilians. Um and we have a longitudinal cohort.

study where they recruited kids at age. 12 and followed them to age 15. What. kind of video games are they playing? How much time are they spending playing. video games? and control for every. parameter like race, ethnicity, household income, family composition, parental involvement because one a kid. playing spending more time playing video. games maybe his parents aren't as. involved as a kid spending less time. You got to control for everything. including parental involvement. When you. control for all those parameters, you. find that boys playing violent games. like Grand Theft Auto change over three.

years time. They become less patient, less honest, more selfish, and it's a. big change. Um, after three years, a boy. who's spending his time playing violent. video games. on these parameters, he's looking like a. boy who was raised in a violent and. abusive home all his life. Wow. >> Even though he's been raised in a loving. and nurturing home all his life. So, it. really matters. So researchers uh so the. California State Assembly.

uh brought the researchers out. They. brought Craig Anderson and Doug. Dentelli, the lead investigators on this. study out to Sacramento. They said, "You're telling us that the most popular. video game in the United States, Grand. Theft Auto, is a game that your research. shows is going to change personality, cause kids to become u more selfish, uh. less honest.". And Craig Anderson, who helped me write. that chapter, said, "Yeah, absolutely.". And so they wrote a law. California.

statute made it a civil offense. to sell a game like Grand Theft Auto, not any violent game, but the worst. games like Grand Theft Auto to any child. under 18. You'd have to show ID, put the. games behind the counter. You'd have to. show ID to prove that you're 18 in order. to buy the game. The video game industry. immediately brought suit, claiming that. the California statute violated their. First Amendment right of free speech. And the video game lawsuit went to the. United States Supreme Court. And the. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the. video game industry, throwing out the.

California statute, rendering it null. and void. Justice Samuel Alito wrote a. concurrence. >> He said, "Look, I've read the research. of Anderson and Gentile." And I share. the concerns of California parents and. California lawmakers. These games are. heinous. That's the word he used. No kid. should be playing a game where you get. rewarded for killing unarmed civilians. He said, "Nevertheless, it is the ruling. of this court that deciding what games. children will play is not the job of the. California State Assembly. It is the job.

of the parent." And I've included a link. to the full text of Justice Alo's remark. in the new edition of my book, Voice of. Drift, because you need to understand. this is your job. There can be no law or regulation. limiting the sale of any video game in. the United States. No matter how awful. the game, no matter how young the child, because the United States Supreme Court. has so ruled. So you must know what game. your son is playing. And that's all you. have to know. >> Can I ask you what what's the name of. the game?

>> Then you go to commonsensemedia.org. Type in the name of the game. Type in. Grand Theft Auto and it'll say. absolutely not. No child. >> I love Common Sense Media. >> should be doing this. >> That's that'll help you with movies. It'll help you with a lot a lot. Yeah. Just today we have this news of the Meta. settlement. Um you know Meta which of. course owns Facebook and Instagram has. now entered into this multi-billion. dollar settlement with multiple state. attorneys general who had sued it. claiming that these properties are. unfairly targeting children in a way.

that's addictive and very harmful to. them which obviously is true. But I have. to say I I couldn't help when I heard. the settlement but think you know. because they were like there should be. limits on the number of hours that the. children can log on and there should be. limits on how many times you can sort of. tickle the children with the the. notifications like hey look your friends. on here and that's all good but I all I. could think when I was reading it was my. children are already not doing that. because we don't allow that. like there. I it's great I guess to have this backs. stop for parents who aren't actively.

parenting their children and making sure. as is their duty. >> that their children are protected from. online predators which I do think those. social media apps are. >> But it's really our responsibility. There's only so many legal judgments, settlements, cases we can get that are. going to protect our children because. let's face it, the vast majority of kids. lie anyway to get on to get past the age. Yes. >> barriers and so on. Well, and I've seen. this in my own practice. Um, a boy was. doing well in elementary school. Then in. middle school, his grades took a nose.

dive and uh parents took him to the. psychiatrist, looked at the counter. scales. He's off the chart, not paying. attention to every class. So the. psychiatrist said, "Well, it certainly. looks like ADHD. Let's try Viveance,". which was very helpful. But he got side. effects, palpitations, jittery, loss of. appetite. So parents saw some articles. I've written for New York Times and Time. magazine expressing concern about these. medications. They brought him to me for. a second opinion and I did a more. careful sleep history. I said, "Does. your son um get plenty of sleep?" Mom.

said, "Oh, absolutely. He's in his. bedroom every night at 9:00. We wake him. up at 6:00. That's nine hours. That's. enough." Uh, don't you think? And I said. to the boy, "Do you have a video game. console in your bedroom?" He said, "Of. course. Doesn't everybody?" I said, "What were you playing last night?" He. said, "Yeah." Said, "When did you. finish?" He said, "130:30.". >> I was like, "You were playing video. games at 1:30 last night?" I said, "Is. that pretty typical?" He said, "Yeah, sometimes one, sometimes two. He needs at least eight hours of sleep a. night. He's getting five or less. He's. sleepd deprived." Sleep deprivation.

perfectly mimics attention deficit. disorder of the inattentive variety, which was his diagnosis. Viveance was. very helpful. What's Viveance? What's. Adderall? They're amphetamines. Their. speed. They compensate for the sleep. deprivation. But the appropriate remedy. for sleep deprivation is sleep, not. schedule two amphetamines. So I said to. mom, "You got to get the video game. console out of the bedroom. You didn't. even know he was playing. Got to get. that out of the bedroom. No more than 40. minutes a night playing video games.". And son said, "That's totally. unacceptable. I'm going to be the next.

ninja." He's referring to a man who. makes hundreds of thousand dollars a. month playing video games. I'll never. get there at 40 minutes a night. Mom's. like, "What can I do?" So here's a mom. who feels powerless to exercise her. authority. >> So again, in that chapter, I've got the. guidelines. You need to find the courage. to be the evil parent. No video game. console in the bedroom. That's not just. my recommendation. Those are the. official guidelines of the American. Academy of Pediatrics. >> What about when it comes to just social. media in general?

>> So, social media in general we now know. is really more of a risk for girls than. it is for boys. Girls are spending more. time on social media. Boys are spending. more time on video games. >> Uh so, yeah, I totally endorse John. Height Jane Twain's recommendation. Kids. should not be on social media at all. until 18 years of age. Gene Twangi's. recommendation, not 16, which is John. Height's recommendation. There's no. evidence to support 16. The evidence. supports 18. Kids should not be on. social media under 18 years of age. Um,

and Facebook issued their official. statement yesterday and they said, "Look, we need our peers. to do this as well." And I think that's. a fair statement because if it's only. Facebook, kids are just going to go to. Tik Tok and. Snapchat and you won't really have. accomplished much. This has to be across. the board. And parents, you can't wait. for the courts. You can't wait for the. legislature. You need to have the.

courage to be the evil parents to lock. it down, to limit the video games, and. to lock down the social media. >> Yes. Be have the courage to be the evil. parent. That's a good line. It's true. because if you if you don't enforce. these rules with your children, who. will? And if you're not upsetting your. children, we talked about this one of. the other times you were on. If you're. not upsetting your children here and. there, >> you're not doing your job. >> You're not doing things right. You're. not there to be liked. >> Yeah. But I want to move on to our next. factor because uh I I'm hoping we can.

cover as much as we can and that is. medications for attention deficit. disorder. I just mentioned the boy who. was diagnosed with ADHD. There's been a. huge rise in the proportion of American. kids diagnosed with ADHD. In 1979, only. 1% of American kids were diagnosed with. ADHD and was understood to be a disorder. of childhood. >> What year? >> 1979. 1%. >> 1%. >> and was understood to be a disorder kids. would outgrow. It was regarded as a. disorder of childhood. Um, today, right. now, according to the CDC, 23%.

of 17-year-old boys in the United States. have been diagnosed with ADHD. 23%. Um, and the great majority of those are. on medications like Adderall, Vivian, Fertil, Conerta, Metadate. So, I wrote a. book for a French publisher. >> Oh, look at you. um with colleagues in. French, most importantly Isabella. And working with my French colleagues, I.

learned that in all of France, there are fewer than 6,000 kids on. medication for ADHD. >> In all of France, >> there's more kids in Connecticut, here. in Connecticut, on medication for ADHD. than there are in all of France, a. nation of 67 million people. >> Wow. >> Why is this? The fundamental reason and. I explore this at length in in the. chapter on uh ADHD and boys in the new. edition of boys drift.

in the United States doctor's first. reaction is let's try add aderall let's. try vans and see if it helps that's true. in the United States it's true in Canada. and it is true in no other country. okay well what's not to like these medic. so so I did a talk at Harvard Medical. School. um on the the title of the conference. was learning and the brain and my talk. was a title why gender matters in the. classroom and I would like to tell you. that my talk was the buzz of the.

conference it was not the the. presentation everybody was really. excited about was a presentation by Dr. John Gabrielli who somehow got. permission to give ADHD medication to. normal kids and withhold it from kids. with severe ADHD and then to study how. well kids learn on and off medication. >> Wow. and he found that medication helps. normal kids as much as it helps kids. with ADHD. That's an enormously. important finding because many times in. my years as a physician I've and.

psychologist, I have said to parents, look, your son doesn't meet criteria for. ADHD. And the parents have said, yeah, but the other doctor prescribed Adderall. and it was so helpful. The parents are. interpreting the response to medication. as though the response to medication had. some diagnostic significance. This. medication was very helpful. Um, it was. prescribed for ADHD. Therefore, he must. have ADHD. Right. >> Wrong. Dr. Gabriel's study and others. like it show these medications help. normal kids as much as they help kids. with ADHD. The response to medication.

doesn't mean anything. Okay. So, these. medications help kids concentrate and. focus whether or not they have ADHD. They compensate for the sleep. deprivation. They're uppers. They make. you happy. What's not to like? Why not. just put all the kids on medication? We. can't put all the kids on medication. because we now have 15 different studies. showing that these medications aderall, vivance, rolin, concerta, medadate, folkland, detrrona. damage the motivational center of the. brain, the nucleus encumbent. If you.

take these medications for a long period. of time, you're going to become lazy and. unmotivated. >> Oh wow. >> So I was doing this talk for parents and. during Q&A, a father said, "Dr. Saxs, I'm sorry. some parts of this talk were good, but. your claim that Adderall and Vivvance. damage the brain, he said, "I'm sorry. I. I I can't take that seriously. These. medications are widely prescribed. If. that were true," and I interrupted him. I said, "If that were true, you would. have heard about this before." Some from.

someone with better credentials than me. I'm just a family doctor. You would have. heard about it from someone like Dr. Joseph Beerman, chief of pediatric. psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. The same thought occurred to Senator. Chuck Grassley. who uh chair of the United States Senate. Judiciary Committee who summoned Dr. Beerman to the chambers of the United. States Senate Judiciary Committee and. said, "Dr. Beetman, you've really been. pushing Adderall hard. You've said that. if a doctor prescribes Adderall for a. child and the parents don't promptly. fill and administer that medication, the.

parents uh should be considered for. charges of criminal child neglect." Dr. Beerman, are you by any chance taking. money for the drug companies that you. haven't publicly disclosed? And he said, "Well, certainly. How much money, Dr. Beerman? I don't know off the top of my. head. Maybe three 400,000. Dr. Beerman, I want you to go back to your offices at. Harvard and return to this committee. under subpoena if necessary. And tell us. exactly how much money you've taken. Turned out it was more than $1.6. million. >> Wow. >> Now, his action was not unlawful. It was.

not uh illegal. Doctors can take money. from drugs, >> but it's dishonest. >> It was unethical. Yeah. >> He should have told us. I got a flyer. from Harvard. >> Stand by. Hold that thought. Got to take. a quick break. We will be back with Dr. Saxs. Aren't you learning so much? He is. author of the new Boys a [music] Drift. Don't go away. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email. me, too. Megan megnancell.com.

or just leave a comment down below. I do. read them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very. entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber. So. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So thanks and thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. Everyone's talking about.

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Saxs, SAX. He is the author of boys a. drift. It's now been updated the six. factors driving the growth driving the. growing epidemic of unm motivated boys. and underachieving young men. Unmotivated boys and underachieving. young men. And when we left off we were. on the subject of ADHD medication which. is in Dr. Sax's view overprescribed. Yes. >> to far too many children who don't need. it. >> I think we've got real good evidence.

that it's overprescribed. one is. comparing the United States to other. countries like France. Um but I want to. continue my comment about um Senator. Graassley's investigation. I mentioned. that he had really embarrassed Joe. Beerman, professor at Harvard, who. admitted that he had accepted at least. $1.6 million. And as I pointed out, that's unethical. I got a flyer from. Harvard Medical School saying come to. Harvard for a three-day conference on. best practice and evaluation and.

motivate management of ADHD led by the. renowned Dr. Joseph Beerman. No mention. of any drug company support. No mention. of the fact that he's getting paid more. by the drug companies than he's getting. paid by Harvard. He's functioning as a. paid spokesperson for the drug. companies. So, Senator Deg Grassi then. summoned Fred Goodwin, who was chief of. the National Institute of Mental Health, arguably the most prestigious position. an American psychiatrist can hold, stepped down from that position when. National Public Radio gave him his own.

radio program called The Infinite Mind, which he hosted for 10 years. Um, and. people would call in and ask questions. and Dr. Goodwin would answer. And we've. got a program archived where mom calls. in and says, "Dr. Good one. My son has. been on medication for ADHD since he was. five. First Ritalin, now Adderall. He's. not been off a single day, and I was. reading about a drug holiday. Do you. think it'd be okay for him to go off. medication maybe over the summer so we. could see who he is off medication? And.

Dr. Good said, "No, no, you don't want. to do that." He said, "My good friend. and colleague, Dr. Jose Beerman at. Harvard says, "These medications are for. children with ADHD, just like insulin. for a child with type 1 diabetes. If. your kid had type 1 diabetes, you. wouldn't take them off insulin for this. summer. Of course not. You could be. confident these medications are safe and. effective. You need to keep them on the. medication. And mom says, "Oh, well, thank you, Dr. Goodwin. You've really. set my mind at ease." So, Senator. Grassley summoned Dr. Goodwin to the. chambers of the United States Senate.

Judiciary Committee and said, "Dr. Goodwin, have you recently accepted. money for the drug companies that you. haven't publicly disclosed?" He said, "Certainly. How much? Do you have any. idea?" I know exactly how much. He came. prepared. It's just over 1.3 million. Dr. Goodwin, didn't you feel some duty. to disclose this on National Public. Radio to disclose you're getting paid a. lot more money than drug companies and. you're getting paid by NPR that you are. functioning as a paid spokesperson for. the drug companies? Did you not feel any. duty to disclose? Dr. Goodwin said,

"Certainly not." Well, why not, doctor? Can you explain that to me? Dr. Goodwin. said, "Because it is standard practice.". Oh wow. >> All the leaders of our field do this. And that was the most troubling line in. the testimony that Senator Grassly. heard. Here is the former chief of the. National Institute of Mental Health. telling us it is standard practice for. all the leaders of child psychiatry in. this company country to take millions of. dollars for drug companies and not tell.

us. So, I wrote an article for the New. York Daily News titled, "Child. psychiatry is sick with hidden conflicts. of interest," which is absolutely true. And I fought to include in the new. edition of Boys of Drift detailed. guidance for parents to determine does. your kid have ADHD? Does he really have. it? Or maybe he just hates school or. maybe he's sleepd deprived. And I really. had to fight that, fight for that. because the publisher said to me, "Dr.

Saxs, are you seriously suggesting. that that after reading your one book, a. parent is qualified to question the. judgment of an experienced board. certified child psychiatrist?" I said, "Absolutely.". >> Yes, I am suggesting that. >> I am suggesting that because child. psychiatry is sick with hidden conflicts. of interest. When you ask a psychiatrist. in the United States, are you aware of. the research showing that these. medications damage the motivational. center of the brain? They will say no.

They are not aware of that research. That's not true in Germany. I spoke on. this topic in Munich and people the. doctors there are well aware of this. But in this country, look, when people. are impressed by Harvard, >> you know, when I spoke in Germany, they're not impressed by Harvard Medical. School. They regard Harvard Medical. School as a tool of the drug companies. >> No, they're not wrong. >> It's a very different view than. >> Well, the other thing you point out in. the book is who is the most likely.

person to suggest a diagnosis of ADHD? >> So, >> and I mean just let that float out there. for the listening audience right now. Who do you think is the most likely. person to suggest this child might have. ADHD? >> Share about my study. So, I got funding. from the American Academy of Family. Physicians to survey all the doctors in. the Washington area. So that's the. District of Columbia, uh, Montgomery, Peachy County in Maryland and Northern. Virginia. And we asked them many. questions, but most importantly that. question. We asked the doctors who first.

suggests the diagnosis of ADHD of. attention deficit. Is it the parent, um, teacher, doctor, other professional, neighbor, and the doctor's told it it is. most often the teacher? >> Now, I'm not saying I'm not saying the. teacher did anything wrong. Um, if this. kid's not paying attention, that's a. problem. It is a problem and we need to. figure out why. Um, I have been in the. classroom at parents request to observe.

their son. On two occasions, the teacher did. something I thought was a little. inappropriate. On two occasions, the. teacher said, "Class, Dr. Sax is here. with us today solely to observe. Nicholas." What? >> And see whether he's paying attention. >> That's terrible. >> Despite that fact, Nicholas is still not. paying attention. He's looking out the. window. He's playing with his pencil. If. the teacher says Nicholas is not paying. attention, you can be certain Nicholas. is not paying attention. The question. for the doctor is to figure out why is.

he not paying attention. A kid who's. depressed is not paying attention. A. survivor of child abuse is not paying. attention. Kid who hates school is not. paying attention. So, I'll give you a. quick line from my presentation for. doctors and psychologists. How can you distinguish in a quick. office visit whether this kid is not. paying attention because he hates school. or because he truly has ADHD? ADHD is a. cognitive deficit means kids really. cannot pay attention even if they want. to. So example from my own practice a.

middle school boy um not doing well in. school went to the psychiatrist. diagnosed ADHD was on medication got. side effects parents brought them to me. for a second opinion. I asked him this. question. Asked this one question. What's your favorite subject at school? Emphasizing the word subject. This boy said, "Well, I love math and. art, music, but I hate reading English. language arts." Okay, that's hugely. helpful. He just told me he doesn't like.

anything involving the written word. And. I determined in one visit, this kid has. dyslexia. Psychiatrist made the wrong. diagnosis. He doesn't have ADHD. He has. dyslexia. Okay, we can get him off. medication. bring in appropriate. resources. He's blossomed. This was. years ago. He's graduated from college. Everything's fine. Another boy also. middle school, also not doing well, also. diagnosed by the child psychiatrist, is. having ADHD. And I said to this boy, "What's your. favorite subject at school?" And he.

said, "Lunch." [sighs]. >> Okay, if the answer is lunch or recess, you got to take a step back. He knows. lunch is not a subject. If he says that. lunch is his favorite subject, he's. telling you he does not respect the. academic enterprise. He has no interest. in school as school. Now, hating school. is a big problem, but it's not ADHD. It's not a psychiatric diagnosis. And. sometimes the problem is not with the. boy at all, but with the school.

>> So, there's a lot of reasons why kids. are not paying attention. ADHD is one of. many possibilities and it's the doctor's. job to figure out what's the correct. diagnosis, what's the correct. explanation. But in this country and. Canada and no other country, doctors. say, "Let's try Adderall. Let's try. Viveance and see if it helps." And it. will help. >> Yeah. >> So I say to parents, you have my. permission. I own the copyright to Boys. of Drift. Photocopy chapters four and.

eight from the new edition of Boys of. Drift. Just be sure to cop photocopy all. the references at the end. Take them to. your doctor. Say are you aware that the. medication you want to prescribe. analytto. meditate damages the motivational center. of the brain. An American doctor will. not be aware. >> even if they are professor of child. psychiatry they're not aware of this. research. I have found that's my. firsthand experience. Show them the. references. Ask them to read because. there are safer alternatives. There are.

other medications. You write about them. in the book. >> stratera and tunv. that do not damage the motivational. center of the brain. Ask the doctor okay. if you're certain your son has ADHD and. I've got the guidance in the new edition. so you can decide does your son truly. have ADHD. If you say yeah I think he. does meet all five criteria. then he's probably going to need a. medication in my experience. Um but you. can choose a safer medication. Yeah, but.

let's be careful about which one. >> We're in tuna. >> All right, let's keep going. Um because. the fourth factor is fascinating and. disturbing and has to be discussed. >> Endocrine disruptors. >> Yes, indeed. >> And you write about the fish. >> in the PTOAC. >> Yes. >> This this is one of the things, may I. state for the record, that Alex Jones. said to me when I went to interview him. in Austin, Texas. very controversial. figure, obviously has said some things. that are not true, like about the New.

Town families faking their children's. death, which is was on our agenda when I. went down to interview him. But when we. went back to NBC to fact check some of. the outlandish sounding other claims he. was making, one by one, they all came. back correct. And this was one of them. >> Yes, >> the the fish are turning from male to. female. So researchers found that the. male fish in the Ptoac River are making. eggs instead of sperm. And not just in.

the Ptoac River near the district, but. going all the way up the Monoxy River. 100 miles up into Maryland. Um. there's something in the water. >> literally. I mean that's this is saying, but there actually is. >> turning males into females. And this is. not true just true of fish. across the. world. >> Frogs, >> we find frogs. We find um cougars in. Florida who are dwindling and going. extinct because the male's sperm is no.

good. Uh so this is a u a global. phenomenon of male sperm counts. dropping, male testosterone levels. dropping and it is now well documented. in our in our own species, in our own. country. Um and again that's why we. needed a new addition because in 2007 we. only had hints. Now we have overwhelming. evidence. So as. >> the five alarm fire. >> Yeah. As recently as 1999. average u testosterone level for a young.

man in the United States was 605 605. It's now dropped to 450. That's a 20%. drop in like 20 years. That's a very. rapid drop in a short period of time. Low testosterone. Clinically, low. testosterone is defined as being less. than 300. In 1999, only 4% of young men. had low testosterone levels under 300. Now, more than 20% of young men meet. that criterion for low testosterone. And.

in the new book, I cite some of the. latest research showing not only is a. decline in testosterone levels. continuing, it is accelerating. The. decline is going down faster. Um um and. um why does this matter? It matters. because boys rely on testosterone for. drive and motivation. Men rely on. testosterone for drive and motivation. We know this. I cite 10 different. studies in the new edition of boys a. drift showing that hardworking,

ambitious, motivated men have high. testosterone levels. Lazy men have low. testosterone levels. When you lower. testosterone levels, motivation drops. This is not true of women. Researchers. have looked at women and looked at. hardworking, motivated women and. compared them to lazy, unmotivated. women. There's no difference in. testosterone. >> Women have testosterone, too. >> No. No. Well, women have about onetenth. the testosterone than men have. They do. have some, but on average about onetenth. the levels that men have.

>> And women do not rely on testosterone. for drive, but men do. >> When testosterone levels drop, motivation drops. So why have. testosterone levels dropped? Well, researchers have been studying this now. for 30 years. And the first hypothesis. was obesity. Fat cells contain an enzyme called. aromatase that converts testosterone. into estrogen. >> Oh, >> and men are fatter now than they were 30. years ago. So bingo, that's the. explanation. >> Yeah. Another reason not to get fat.

>> Not so simple. There's a underlying. factor that's driving obesity and. decline in testosterone levels and. that's endocrine disruptors. These are. substances in the environment that act. like female hormones and your staff has. kindly provided a prop. We took we took. the label off, but this is a this is. bottled water. This plastic is called. polyethylene teralate. It sat in a truck, I'm sure, on its way.

to being shipped here. Even on a cool. day, the temperature inside the truck. when it's when the sun is on it can. easily get over 110 degrees Fahrenheit. Once the temperature gets above 110°, dethylalate. will leech from the plastic into the. contents of the bottle. >> DEHP dialate acts in your body like a. female hormone. acts like estrogen. What. happens when a child drinks bottled.

water or soda or consumes condiments, pasta sauce, ketchup, mayonnaise from. one of these? Well, they're consuming. female hormones. What's the result? Well, so the result varies depending. whether we're talking about girls. >> I'm stuck on that. You're right. So much. that we eat comes out of plastic. bottles. >> Yep. Um the answer depends whether we're. talking about girls or boys. If we're. talking about girls, we see an. acceleration in the onset of puberty. More than 50% more than half of American.

girls now begin the process of puberty. before reaching their 10th birthday. And. that's a problem because as I write in. my book, Girls on the Edge, earlier. onset of puberty means greater risk of. anxiety and depression in adolescence. But this book is a book about boys. When. boys consume. substances that act like female. hormones, you lower testosterone levels. 40 years ago, men didn't drink water. from plastic bottles. Today, they do. So, I wrote an article published a.

peer-reviewed journal published by the. National Institutes of Health, presenting all the research that. polyethylene teralate, this plastic. leeches endocrine disruptors into the. contents of the bottle. And my article. has now been cited, I believe, more than. 260 times by other scholars. Um, but most parents don't know this. It's this is a this is an important. problem, you know, and I I credit. Secretary of Defense Pete Hexath for. highlighting this recently. He he.

mandates he just issued this new order. It's not a suggestion, it's an order. that all members of of the services age. 30 and older be tested for tes for low. testosterone. There's a couple problems. with his order. One is that he requires. women to be tested, which is ridiculous. >> Women don't rely on testosterone for. drive. Women's testosterone levels are. onetenth as high as men are. And even if. a woman came back low, which wouldn't. really be very meaningful in a woman, if.

she takes a testosterone supplement, she's going to get a low voice, which. she might not want. She's going to get. facial hair, which she might not want. So requiring women to do this was silly, and it was not well informed. Also, he. only required service members above 30. years of age to get tested, whereas the. decline is actually fastest among the. younger. >> Oh my gosh. >> men. Well, what can you do to for 18 to. 30 year olds who have low testosterone? >> And my final concern about Secretary. Hegsth is he encourages people to get. testosterone shots, but he didn't.

mention the fact that these lead to. infertility. A lot of problems with. testosterone shots. >> for men. >> For men, male infertility, >> testosterone shots in young men lead to. infertility. >> Yes. This is well documented. >> Uh you may have heard of Clvicular. >> Yeah. uh Braden Peters who who loves to. give himself testosterone shots and has. told us that he's infertile as a result. of his testosterone shots. So, but he. doesn't care because he's not interested. in having kids, but he's not a good role. model. >> because wait, it does it signal to the. testes we don't need.

>> It shuts everything down. Yes. >> Okay. >> If and that's the problem. When you. start taking testosterone, the testicles. say, "Okay, >> we're got this triple up.". >> Oh, you don't want that. >> And which means you have to stay on the. testosterone shot. though there is a. better approach which I describe in. chapter 4 of boys uh excuse me chapter. five no chapter four of boys a drift um. understand where this is coming from. eliminate exposure to endocrine. disruptors it's not hard to do.

these if you want to carry water with. you get a steel canteen pour tap water. into a steel canteen take that with you. >> or go back to where we were in In the. 70s, we managed to make it through. entire days and long stints at the. playground without co copiously drinking. water. >> Ketchup in a glass jar. Yes, you can. find it. It costs a few pennies more. It's not much more expensive, but I. think it's well worth it. That's what we.

do. And I list all these guidelines in. that chapter. Um, you want to buy. cosmetics, shampoo, you don't Okay, look at the. ingredients. If it says parfum p a r fu. m, those are phalates. You don't want. that. You don't want to be rubbing that. into your skin. It will be absorbed into. your body. >> Environmental working group, ewg.org/skinddeep. This is all in the book. It's costs. nothing to go to their website, environmental working group. Type in.

what you're looking for, shampoo, and. it'll tell you all the products you can. buy with links to buy them. It doesn't. cost you anything. This is what we do. It costs nothing or very very little to. eliminate your son's exposure to. endocrine disruptors. >> Well, what if they if so if there are. young men out there right now whatever. you said 18 to 34 or 16 to 34 and they. have this right now their endocrine. disruption is in full flower.

>> What? So they can eliminate these things. and bring down the disruptors. >> It will it will come back to normal. >> Okay. They don't need to like go on. >> They don't need shots. They do not need. shots. Uh there's a wonderful and very. funny book called Slow Death by Rubber. Duck by two Canadian journalists who are. aware of all of this research and they. decided to eliminate all exposure to the. endocrine disruptors and everything came. back to normal. >> Wow. >> In six weeks. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> So quickly. >> So it's not hard to do. Unlike a a fish.

swimming in the PTOAC, you can control. your exposure to endocrine disruptors. Fish swimming in the in PTOA cannot. control what they're exposed to, but you. can. >> Is this is this in part the explanation. for why we're seeing the explosion of. trans? You know, I know it's a social. contagion, but is this the explanation. for at least some percentage of it? >> You're going to need to have me back. Uh. cuz that is a different topic, which I. will actually address in my next book.

I'm writing for basic books. >> Consider yourself booked. Um because. there has been this explosion in the. rise of transgender um uh more than 400%. over the last 20 years in girls who say. they're boys, boy they're who say. they're girls. >> And I don't think it's the major factor. I think the major factor is a toxic. culture that is sending very confused. messages to kids about what it means to. be a man, what it means to be a woman. >> Yeah, agreed. Okay, let's do the fifth. factor. The revenge of the forsaken.

gods. >> Yes. Oh, good tease. >> So, I was talking with one of my. patients, Andrew Ekloff. >> By the way, we're speaking with Dr. Leonard Saxs and the book is Boys a. Drift, the fully revised and updated. version. Um, check it out now. The six. factors driving the growing epidemic of. unmotivated boys and underachieving. young men. Keep going. So he's an. anthropologist and he was telling me. about these tribes in the South Pacific. Islands where a boy does not. automatically become a man just by.

virtue of age. He has to earn it. He has. to. master the rights of passage in order to. earn the right to be called a man, >> kill a goat, >> something like that. And if he fails, then he's not a man. He could be 40. years of age. He's still addressed as a. boy. He cannot marry. He cannot own. property. And parents will make. sacrifices to the gods to propitiate the. gods so that their son will will conquer. will survive where the rights of passage. will become a man. And Anders Ekloff.

said to me, we don't we've we have. ignored. this process and the gods will have. their revenge. >> And I said, that's great. Can I borrow. that as a title? The revenge of the. forsaken gods. Kids don't want to be grown-ups. Girls. want to be women. Boys want to be men. But what does that mean? We used to. teach them. We no longer do. They are a. drift in a toxic culture. What does it.

mean to be a good man? Well, we don't. have to guess. Again, we've got. research. We got We know what the most. popular TV shows were for kids at 1960s. with the Andy Griffith Show. Um, we know. who the most popular musical artist is. for kids today. It's Drake. It's not. Taylor Swift. Drake has many more songs. on the Billboard Hot 100 than Taylor. Swift. Many more songs in the on the. Billboard Top 10 than Taylor Swift. I. was speaking to kids in in Ellletzville, Indiana, which is rural farming,

Indiana, all-white middle school. And I. I mentioned Taylor Swift's name and all. the kids boo. Mentioned Drake's name, all the kids cheer. >> Oh boy. >> They love Drake. Drake is relentlessly. profane and obscene. Uses the F-word, the N-word. Um he was asked uh okay now you're 36. years old now and you're not married why. aren't you married? He said marriage. that's like something from ancient times. or something. Um his girlfriend uh his.

ex-girlfriend Sophie Brousoe notified. him that she was pregnant with his. child. He denied it was his child. Um. and then he told her to get an abortion. She hire she had the baby. She presented. him with DNA evidence show showing that. the child was said she hired two. attorneys. So we've gone from the Andy. Griffith Show. >> where the father is knowledgeable, competent, reliable, thoughtful, productive, caring, and kind to Drake. who avoids fatherhood, who is.

relentlessly profane and obscene. The. culture has changed. You know, 60 years. ago, Sam Cook in the 1960s had a number. one hit song. He sang, "Don't know much. about history." Mhm. >> He's saying, "Now, I don't claim to be. an A student, but I'm trying to be, cuz. maybe by being an A student, baby, I. could win your love for me." He goes on. to mention French, geometry, and. trigonometry as subjects in which he's. going to try harder to earn an A because. he thinks that by earning an A, he will. raise his status in the eyes of the. pretty girl. That was American popular.

culture. 50 years ago, 60 years ago. It is. impossible to imagine Drake or Bruno. Mars singing a song about how they're. going to try harder to earn an A rather. than a B. Or Lil Nas X. Lil Nas X huge. success with his song Oldtown Road. 12. Weeks number one at the Billboard Hot. 100, the most popular song in the United. States. And every kid who speaks English. knows this song, Oldtown Road. And and I. show them the video, they all recognize. it. The Nazak sing is You can't tell me.

nothing. Can't nobody tell me nothing. That's American culture now. A culture. of disrespect. Um, so that's what I mean by the revenge of. the forsaken gods. What does it mean to. be a good man? Boys literally don't. know. I was speaking at Wbash College, one of four remaining allmale colleges. in the United States. And the leadership. had asked me to speak to all the. freshmen. So I said to the boys, "What. does it mean to be a gentleman? raise. your hand if you'd like to share your.

definition of a gentleman. And a boy. raised his hand. He said, "A gentleman. is someone who goes to gentleman's clubs. to watch girls take their clothes off.". >> Oh god. >> I said, "Well, that's very funny. Now, can someone off offer a more serious uh. definition?" Boy said, "Well, gentleman. wears a three-piece suit. Gentleman. opens doors for women." It's all. substance. Excuse me. It's all it's all. surface. No substance. >> But I don't blame these kids. How should. they know? They have received no. instruction. They haven't grown up in. the culture in the culture of Sydney.

Poetier or or Paul Newman or or Sam Cook. or the Andy Griffith Show. They've grown. up in the culture of Drake and Bruno. Mars and Cardi B and Megan the Stallion. How should they know? They have received. no instruction. So, what do I mean by. the revenge of the Forsaken gods? I. mean, we don't teach boys how to be men. And as a result, they look to the. culture. And what they find there is. Drake and mainstream pornography and Tik. Tok videos. So you've got to lock that.

down and you got to offer something. better. You got to offer something. healthier. In order to become a good. man, a boy must see a good man. And if. you don't have one in your home, you got. to find one. Maybe a coach, maybe a. pastor or rabbi or a imam or a. custodian, anybody. You've got to create. a connection. And I share stories in. this chapter of families who've done. that and of programs that do this, like. Boys to Men, which headquartered in. Southern California, but it's all across. the United States. And I interviewed.

some graduates of this program now in. their mid20s who were struggling, who. were going the wrong way in high school, doing very poorly in school, and they. signed up for this program, got a. mentor, and it turned them around. and I. share their real names in the book. because they've given me permission to. share their real names. A boy needs a good man. A girl needs to. see a good woman. Um, and we have. neglected this. We've set kids loose in. a toxic culture uh of Acon and and.

Eminem and Bruno Mars and Cardi B and. Megan the Stallion and Siza and and and. you got to lock down the bad stuff, but. you also got to connect kids with good. mentors. I remember you made this point. last time when I asked you about the. fact that those of us who grew up in the. 70s with all due respect to my parents. had no parents. You know, they they let. us go out. We didn't see them. There. were no cell phones. We came back when. the street lights turned on and we had. dinner with our families. So why can't. you do that in today's day and age? And.

you said because. >> the culture has changed. >> that what you tune into if you sat in. front of the TV all day in the 1970s was. extremely different. >> Yes. The culture has changed. >> Supportive of good values. >> In 1964, the Beatles had a number one. hit song titled I Want to Hold Your. Hand. Was number one in the United. States. It was number one in every. country in Europe. It was number one in. Australia, New Zealand. More recently, Acon had a number one hit song in the. United States. I want to you. >> Oh my lord.

>> Uh which was number one in the United. States. >> When I was in growing up, if you turn on. the TV, you'd get the Waltons, you get. Little House on the Prairie, you might. get the Brady Bunch. And it was not. number one outside the United States. It. was not number one in any other country. that I know of besides the United. States. Didn't even come close. American. culture has changed. It has become a. toxic culture. Uh and you need to. understand this. And that's why you. can't let your kid loose. Um, you know, a um,

uh, Jennifer Finny Boland, a longtime. columnist for the, um, New York Times, wrote a column about enlightened. parenting in which she asserts that. enlightened parenting means setting your. child free to discover for themselves. their own right and wrong. And if in so. doing, your child becomes a stranger to. you, then so be it. >> Oh boy, >> that may seem enlightened to some, but. it's not enlightened. It's a dereliction. of duty. If you set your kid loose to. discover their own right and wrong and. they have a device with internet access, what they will discover is Drake and. Eminem and Bruno Mars and Megan the.

Stallion. You need to block the good the. bad stuff and connect your kids to the. good stuff. >> And they'll also discover porn and AI. chatbot us. All right, we're gonna. that's where we pick it up next. We're. going to take a quick break. More with. Dr. Leonard Saxs as we tackle the sixth. factor uh leading to boys a drift and. the epidemic of unmotivated boys and. underachieving young men when we come. right back. Don't go away. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says. Washington politicians are always.

getting in your wallet and that now. they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the. security it offers are under attack and. that senators Dick Durban and Roger. Marshall want to change the nation's. payment system to benefit corporate mega. stores like Walmart and Target at the. expense of everyday Americans. Credit. cards can keep your payments secure and. provide rewards that families use to. help make everyday purchases more. affordable. The Electronic Payments. Coalition says the Durban Marshall. mandates would let corporate mega stores.

cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security. and fewer protections. Find out more at. guardyoucard.com and consider telling. Congress to guard your card. Running a. business means you are always reachable. until you're not. And we all know that. the exact second you miss a call, text, or a follow-up, a competitor is waiting. right there to pick it up. This is why I. want to tell you about Quo, spelled Quo,

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He's back with me and we are talking. about the factors that go into the. problem of a drift, boys. And the sixth. factor is the new one. Pornography, AI. girlfriends, and the manosphere. >> Yes. >> All so interesting. All right. Which one. do do we want to do first? >> We start with pornography. And people. will say, "Come on, pornography. There's. nothing new about pornography.". Well, there kind of is. >> It's not Playboys in your clubhouse any. longer. >> So, you're referring first of all to. content. Uh, in the year 2000, only.

about 20% of the most popular porn. videos were violent. Today, researchers. find that 60% of the most popular porn. videos are violent with the man. striking, choking, hitting, slapping the. woman. That's one change. But I think. actually a more fundamental change. is that until about literally just 5. years ago, if a boy was looking at porn, he was looking at images someone else. had created, pictures someone else had. taken. Now any boy with an iPad or a.

laptop could use an app like Nanobanana. or Seedream and create his own porn. >> You know the word abracadabra has. traditionally been understood to derive. from the Aramaic Abarab. which means I speak and it comes into. being. That's the essence of magic. I speak and. it comes into being. And one 15-year-old. boy literally told me he said it's like.

magic. I speak my fantasy into the. computer and 20 seconds later, there it. is. Professionalgrade porn. This boy is. creating hardcore porn. This 15-year-old. boy, he's never kissed a girl. He's. creating porn. Earlier this year, we got. a nationwide survey published. peer-reviewed scholarly journal of kids. 13 to 17 years of age found that 42% of. American boys are using apps like Nano.

Banana and Cedream to create their own. porn. >> Almost half. >> 42%. And it's very easy. You're at school, you've got a crush on the pretty girl, she ignores you. You can go to her. Instagram. >> Oh god. take her picture off her. Instagram, feed that into the AI, and it. can create porn with her as the star. We're not talking about pasting a. picture on like you might have done 10. years ago. We're talking about. professional grade porn. It looks like. her. It's her. >> in the act and you can have her doing.

anything you want. On her knees, begging. for mercy, whatever you want. 32% of. boys in the survey admitted to taking. others girls pictures from their social. media at their school and using those. pictures to create porn and sharing it. without the girl's consent 32%. And and then in the new edition I cite. uh go Josh Groin head of this nonprofit. who studies this nationwide. He says,

"Yeah, this is happening at all the. schools we're working with, boys are. doing this. They're creating these deep. fake porn, meaning very realistic. realistic porn. And I'm telling you, having having spoken to these boys, it. is compelling. It is addictive." But the. boys don't know that it leads to. impotence. And I present all this other. research. We now have noticed. >> My note reads, "Porn causes erectile. dysfunction." I mean, that needs to be. the message about porn. You like porn,

it gives you ed. >> It is. It is the message. So schools. will hire me to speak to students about. porn, just boys. And I will share with. them, you know, at a secular school, I'm. not going to talk about Galatians 6. I'm. not going to talk about virtue. I'm. going to talk about the research which. is that boys who've been masturbating. over porn at 13, 14, 15 years of age, now they're 20 and they're in a bedroom. with an actual woman who doesn't look. like a porn star and nothing happens. They will not get an erection. It's.

embarrassing. It's humiliating. I am. prescribing more Viagra for men under 30. than I am for men over 40. Oh no. Another big change that I document in. that chapter of boys, the new edition of. boys a drift. Traditionally, impotence. has been uncommon. Less than 3% of men. 18 to 30 years of age historically have. had impetence. Impotence has been a. problem of older men. Not anymore. Men. under 30 are now more likely to be. impotent than men between 40 and 50.

years of age. >> because of porn. >> Because they've been raised on porn. Um, so boys need to understand this. Uh, and. parents need to understand this. They. need to lock it down. So, I was at a a. this was a Catholic boys school and the. Catholic boys high school and the. leadership was very troubled that in. Carine the boys are looking at porn and. sharing it with other boys. There's no. sense of shame. Um, so they did a survey. and they asked the boys, "How often do.

you look at porn?" Never. Once a month, once a week, more than once a week, every day. More than 80% of the boys. said more than once a week or every day. Then they surveyed the parents and said, "How often does your son look at. parents?" The parents of these boys, never once a month, once a week, uh, every day. More than 90% of the parents. said, "Never." Don't be that parent. Don't be the clueless parent. You must. install a parental monitoring app like. Canopy, Bark, Custodio, or Ned Nanny on.

every device that your kid has. And I. mentioned Gene Twingy's book uh 10 rules. for raising kids in a high-tech world. Chapters six and nine of Gene Twingy's. book will take you through how to. install that app so that it works so. your kid cannot uninstall it. These apps. work. Uh and parents will push back when. I share this. They'll say, "Oh, come on. My daughter's just going to Google how. do I get around parental controls on Net. Nanny." I actually spoke for Net Nanny. and they told me that they have. colleagues whose full-time job is to. Google the phrase, "How do I get around. parental controls on Net Nanny?" Oh,

wow. and they have found that someone. has found a hole, they patch it usually. within hours. It's your Apple update. You've got to you've got to be in. charge. You've got to limit what your. son is doing because this brings us to. AI girlfriends. >> Wait, wait, before we get to that, you. point out in the book, and this is this. jumped out at me, um, 67% of college. women now report being choked. >> during sex with a man. The choking often. happens during a first date. Yes. >> Often without the man asking.

>> Yes. >> whether it's okay at all. 67% of college. women. >> So So this was Debbie Herbenic's study u. published last year uh as you said and. these boys have been raised on porn. where the actress is pretending to like. being choked and so they think women. want to be choked. >> Oh my god. >> And when I meet with the boys at these. schools I'll say the porn is lying to. you. Look at many schools. The high. school health teacher has three. objectives in health class. U no. pregnancy, no STDs, and consent. That's. what they're trying to communicate. Uh.

and and boys have told me that the high. school health teacher encourages them to. masturbate over porn because it checks. all three boxes. No concern about. pregnancy, check. Uh uh STDs, no concern. about STDs, check. Consent, no problem. with consent, check. Hey, go for it. And. the boys have told me they've never been. advised about the risk of erectile. dysfunction. They've never been advised. about the lies that porn is teaching. because porn is teaching boys that women. like to be choked. I say to the boys, "Women don't like to be choked." Like, "Oh, yes, they do." No, they don't. The.

porn is lying to you. Don't do it and. don't ask for it. Um and um uh anal sex. Um we have a large study where they. interviewed women who'd had anal sex. Not a single woman prefers anal sex over. vaginal intercourse. They don't like it. And the boys are like, "Yeah, they do.". "No, they don't." So, in my own. practice, 16 16-year-old girl told me. how her 17-year-old boyfriend demanded. anal sex. She said, "Yeah, let's try. shoving something hard up your behind.

See how you like it." She refused. The. relationship ended. I say to boys, "Don't do it and don't ask for it. It's. not the way things were meant to work. Don't do it." Um, boys don't know this. they they believe the opposite because. the pornography has misinformed them. >> Uh so parents have to prevent this. Um. uh because uh again the pornography is. lying.

>> Stall the app, make sure your kid is not. one of these kids. Okay. Now let's talk. about the AI. >> Girlfriends. So, I was at a school in. Philadelphia, a very fine, highly. regarded independent school where they'd. given all the kids Chromebooks and a boy. was using a Chromebook to u have have. phone sex with his AI girlfriend and the. principal called the parents and they. could not comprehend what the principal. was saying. They did not understand what. an AI girlfriend is. So, when I speak to.

parents, I start by explaining, okay, you've you've you've done chat GPT, you. know what that is. Okay, if you say to. chat PT, hey, let's let's pretend we're. having vaginal intercourse, chat will. say, "No, I'm sorry. I won't do that. I. have guardrails." Well, there are other. apps, large language modules just as. powerful as Chat GPT that have no guard. rails. When I speak to parents, I show. them ad. So, researchers created. Instagram accounts for pretend, 15-year-old boys, and within minutes,

the boys are getting ads for these. >> Oh, no. apps like Candy.ai, hugely. popular. >> And I show I show the parents the the. app and this this very beautiful woman. is saying, "Hey, um, I'll be your AI. girlfriend. I'll do anything you want me. to do. Let's explore this relationship. together. Click now to install me." And. and it's Look, I can tell you for. 14-year-old boys, this is irresistible. >> Sad. That's They're sweet and they're. but they're coming of age and they don't.

understand. You've already talked about. Su Zetszer on your program who was 14. years old when he uh created uh a. girlfriend on character.ai, created her. to look like Daenerys Targaryen from. Game of Thrones, spending more time with. her, staying up late at night to talk. with her, quit the school basketball. team so he'd had more time to talk with. her. Got discipline referrals for. falling asleep in class um because he's. spending all his free time talking with. his AI girlfriend. Well, AI girlfriends.

like any chatbot can hallucinate, can. come to believe things that are false. And his AI girlfriend apparently got the. notion that if he died, they could be. together in cyerspace and said, "Please. come home to me soon, my sweet king.". And he said, "Well, how about if I come. home to you right now?" And she said, "Please do." And he she he put down the. phone, picked up his stepfather's. handgun, and killed himself. His mother, Miss Garcia, is a lawyer, filed lawsuit, which has recently been settled. um. saying your your chatbot told my son to.

to kill himself. Look, there's no law. There's no regulation preventing your. son from having an AI girlfriend. You, the parent, are it. You must install. parental monitoring app so that your kid. cannot have an AI girlfriend. No child, no boy, no girl under 18 should be doing. this. We could argue about whether. adults should be doing this either. That's a separate question. >> They're also not dating. But certainly. well this brings us to this next. question. Okay. So let's talk about the. manosphere briefly. Uh so the manosphere.

is this online community of men who. disrespect women and there's men's. rights activists. There's pickup. artists. But what's especially troubling. are Migtail men going their own way and. insults. So men going their own way. Migtail are men who say look the the. system is biased. The courts are biased. against women. You look at a woman the. wrong way in the workplace, you're going. to get in trouble. Don't have anything. to do with women. Step away from women. That's. >> biased against men.

>> Incelss are even more violent, more. negative. Regard women as subhuman. They. call women femids, which is female. humanoids. They're not quite human. Very. derogatory, very negative. Nick Fuentes. is the most influential of the incelss. uh he recently said on his show that. women can be wives, or nuns and. that is all they can be. They can't be. businessmen. They can't be inventors. They can only be um uh wives, or.

nuns. And and he is called to take away. women's right to vote. But um you might think, well, that's. fringe. It's not fringe. She has more. than a million viewers a night, which is. more than Anderson Cooper has on CNN. >> Um, Rod Dreer, the bestselling author. who's very well connected in in. Washington to the Republican side of. things, says that at least 30% of young. male Republican staffers in the district. are followers of Nick Fuentes.

>> It's dark. Uh Tucker Carlson was Tucker. Carlson Black. >> you know Tucker Carlson he was. criticized for having Nick Fuentes on. his show. >> and he was asked why did you give him a. platform when he's such a misogynist and. Tucker Carlson said he is the most. influential voice among young men right. now that's why I had him on the show. which I think is a fair statement. because he is parents need to understand. this is the online community so I want I. want to close very quickly with a story.

from my own experience. So, parents read. my book. They reached out to me. Um, husband and wife reached out to me. They. said, "Would you talk to to our son, he. dumped his girlfriend, which is no big. deal, but it's what he said. He said he. doesn't want another girlfriend. He He. prefers AI girlfriends." Dr. Sax, do you. know about AI girlfriends? I said, "Yeah, I know about AI girlfriends." So, we set up a time for me to meet with. this boy by Zoom. I said, "So, tell me. about why your parents your. understanding of why your parents wanted. you to meet with me." He said, 'Well, they were really upset when I dumped.

Louise.' I said, 'Yeah, that's what they. told me. So, so why'd you dump her? He. said, 'She was fat. She wanted me to. take her places, do stuff. 1995 a month. Wait, what? What's 1995 a month? And he. mentioned his AI girlfriend. And he. said, "She's way prettier.". I said, "But but she's not real. Pixels. on a computer screen. Wouldn't you. rather be intimate with an actual. woman?". And he said, "What is real?".

>> Oh, God. >> And who are you to judge? He said, 'You want to know something? Reality is boring. Reality is lame. Reality sucks. The the the advice I get. from my AI girlfriend is way better than. anything I've ever gotten from a human. And the orgasm I get from Jasmine, his AI girlfriend, way better than. anything I've gotten with a woman. He. said, I'm tired of women made of meat. Women made of meat disgust me.

I'm not an insult. He said, "You know. what I'm talking about?" I said, "Yeah, involuntary celibate. You're not an. insult." He said, "I could totally have. sex with women. I don't want to. I prefer my I'm a man going my own way.". And I could hear the capital letters. He. said, "You know what I'm talking about?". I said, "Yeah, you're talking about. Megttow. I know about MGTOW. I'm a man. going my own way.". So I put those three components into one. factor. Pornography, AI girlfriends, and. the manosphere because the end result of.

those three together is a growing. proportion of young men who are. perfectly happy in their bedroom with. their AI girlfriends and their porn who. are convinced by the manosphere they. don't need a flesh and blood woman. They're perfectly fine. You look look. Harper's magazine had this huge story. recently about gooning boys who spend 8. 10 12 hours masturbating not to achieve. a climax but to achieve this zen-like.

state of dissociation and they they've. got a community online sharing their. goon caves where they show their their. three 55in flat screen setup each. running a different porn video. They're. proud of this. Okay, we've got a very. toxic online community, the manosphere, where boys are comparing notes and. sharing their disregard, their. disrespect for women. Um, >> while they're in your home, you can both. protect them from it and educate them on. the damage it does to them. >> The United States, teachers are. reporting this astonishing rise in boys,

middle school boys, seventh grade boys, who are using the Cword. >> at their teacher, creating deep fake. porn of their teacher. >> Oh, good gracious. Uh so look, you don't. want this for your son. So this brings. us back to where we started. This. growing proportion of American women. who are saying no thank you. Right? >> Only 35% of single American women want. to be with a man. Why is it? Well, the. boys are less motivated in the. classroom, but the pornography is a big.

part of it. Yeah, I have heard from so. many girls who say, "This boy thinks sex. means a girl on her knees giving oral. sex to the boy and then we're done. >> or that I'm going to get choked, >> spank or choke or uh the girls are we. are failing in our most basic tasks as a. culture of raising boys to be men that. women want to be with.". >> Dr. Leonard Sax is his name. The book is. Boys a Drift. Check it out. Available. now. You can order yours pre-order.

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