Trump's Reality-Based Iran Approach, Tyra Banks Sues Netflix, and How To Be a Great Dad, w/ Berenson

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly Show. Happy Thursday. We've got an incredible Kelly's Court. coming up for you. The judge in the. Carmelo Anthony case is speaking out. Why didn't we have cameras in the. courtroom? He gives an answer. Plus, Alex Berenson is here for a perfectly. timed book on fatherhood. But we begin. today with a quick update on the latest. in Iran. A senior US official reading. out the full text of the memorandum of. understanding yesterday and media. outlets printing it in full what we what.

we recited to you on Tuesday right. before our interview with J.D. Vance. We. had it. Those were the outlines. Um. those are the bullets. And the neocon. hawks are not happy. They're not happy. at all. They want this war to go on and. on. I mean, really they want this war to. go on and on. Well, it's not going to. Sorry. I mean, Israel's definitely going. to do its best to continue this thing. and will probably try to queer this deal. over and over and over again, but the. president has clearly had it. Uh he has. seen through Netanyahu and his.

puffery around. the magic that is possible in Iran. It's over. Uh that those lies will no. longer be believed. So, my money. actually is is on Trump refusing to go. back in there, refusing to resume the. bombing. He says he will. I don't think. he actually will. Uh and they're they're. not happy about that. They wanted Iran. bombed to smithereens. Um it's got 90 million people in it. It's nearly 10 times the size of Israel. and that really was never a realistic.

option even when Trump was saying that. complete annihilation was going to. happen to Iran. And now it's really not. going to happen. Iran's about to be. richer than it's ever been. I mean, we're about to release a lot of money to. Iran and they will emerge from this. whole thing in some ways uh much better. off than they were before. They'll. possibly be in control of the Strait of. Hormuz. They'll definitely have hundreds. of billions of dollars that they didn't. have before. And look, the is part of Trump's peace.

plan in a way. He's trying He tried the. stick. Now he's trying the carrot. That's really what it boils down to. And he feels like he can try the carrot. because we obliterated their nuclear. facilities last June. So, he's not. really that worried about the nuclear. weapon. I know he said he had to say. that to launch this war, as we've been. telling you here, that wasn't a real. concern. Tulsi Gabbard, the intelligence. community had told him they're nowhere. near developing a nuclear weapon. Um he. kind of had to say it as a. justification. My own belief is that.

what he really wanted to do over there. was get rid of the Ayatollah. He did. that. I think he believed Bibi that if. he did that, there could be regime. change and we might get some better. people running Iran. Trump continues to. say that happened. Time will tell. Um. we did degrade some of their missile. facilities and their missile capacities. Unfortunately, we really degraded our. own in the process. But look, the. important thing is. we did the thing last June, which was. very effective. The nuclear dust is a.

skyscraper building's height. underground. And if they try to get it, Trump has told us repeatedly we have. satellite technology that will show us. In that case, we would go back in. Um. and we're trying now to bring Iran out. of the dark ages and make it, you know, more I don't want to say twin, but maybe like more of a distant cousin. to its other Arab state relatives, where. like they're participating in the global. economy in a meaningful way. That could.

make them rich, that could help the. world, that wouldn't make them such a. pariah. And I get it, they're. virtually all of their critics say. that's not possible with these guys. They're Islamic radicals. You know, they. they can't be reasoned with. They kind. of exist just to. take aim at Israel and its big brother, us. So, what do you like this is a pipe. dream. But President Trump is trying. He's going to try. And he's doing it in. the context of getting rid of this war. To say, "Okay, we'll stop bombing you. We'll stop.

blockading your ports. And we will allow. you to become. cash rich.". Frankly, I mean that's what's about to. happen. And you know, the people who are very, very worried about Iran, which is not just the neocon hawks. I. mean, I I see the danger in Iran and I'm. not a neocon hawk, are um concerned. about Iran getting all this money. because they. do want a nuclear bomb, whatever they. say. Uh but we are trusting now that that's. not really a possibility after the.

strikes on their facilities and the. other nuclear downgrades and whatever. technology we have overhead that helps. us keep an eye on them. Moreover, the. president and the vice president both. say that there will be monitoring. Now, that's not in the memorandum, but they both say it's going to be in. the long-term deal. And if it's not in. the long-term deal, we're going to not. release those financial spigots. Some. are getting released up front and will. not be un- undoable, but some are more like, "Let's see what. you can do." And then you may or may not. get the money. So, we do have some.

ability to punish them that's not. military if they try to resume, you. know, enrichment or what have you. Um. Look, Iran, as for that nuclear dust, which became a big issue over the course. of the war. We got to get the dust. We. got to get the dust. They're They're. agreeing not to develop or obtain a. nuclear weapon. They've been agreeing to. that for years. They agreed to that in. the JCPOA. They They always say that they won't. And then they kind of didn't during the. first part of that JCPOA that was signed. in um.

2000. 16, was it? Right It was right before. Obama left. Trump canceled it in '18. So, they were actually compliant cuz we. had. like non-stop inspections of them. Um. and then we tore it up because Trump. didn't like the deal. Because it had sunset provisions on just. how long they'd have to hold the nuclear. enrichment to 3.67%. And he thought that was a bad idea. Well, he tore it up and then they. started enriching to over 60% and then.

we blew them up. There's a real question about. like what's going to happen now and are. we actually going to be able to make. sure with inspections that they're not. doing this again. But look, right now. that nuclear dust that's way below. ground, we're told. they'll down blend it. or dilute it. and we're not exactly sure. whether we've agreed to that. President. Trump and J.D. Vance have said different. things on that. It seems like they're. not okay with that. They want it to be I.

think J.D. Vance told us the other day. that it's it's going to be. destroyed and removed. Trying to. remember exactly, but look, it's it's below ground and President. Trump has accepted the reality that. that's a near impossibility. We looked. at going in and getting it ourselves. It. was going to be nearly impossible for. us. So it's going to be nearly. impossible for them too. It's actually. potentially in fact impossible. Uh look, the president yesterday. was extraordinary in making comments on. this. I I had never seen him so frank.

about the realities in Iran, which I. have to say was very encouraging. Why. was it encouraging? Because my number. one takeaway on all of this when you're. looking at the upsides and you know, there's downsides as I just outlined, is that President Trump now gets it. He. gets what's happening there. He. understands. the danger of listening to Israel when. it comes to bombing campaigns in the. Middle East. And he also understands. that Iran, you know, for all of its. leadership troubles and there are many,

I don't dispute it, is. a country with like I said, nearly a. hundred million people living there and. they have to survive. The president. said, "I don't want them to starve. We. can't have the Iranians starving to. death.". And he's starting to realize that at. least with ever, you know, whomever he's. negotiating with and it's still the. IRGC, which is radical, in charge of. Iran, but he's starting to believe. that there's at least an opportunity for. that carrot. All right. Um President Trump yesterday. started with this one. I'm going to play.

a couple sound bites. First of all, he talked about. on this front about nuclear enrichment. because. look, there are two purposes to. enriching uranium. One is domestic. energy. The much more nefarious one is creating. a nuclear weapon. And here's what Trump said about that. >> It is a little hard though when you say. that somebody wants it, other people. have it, other adjoining states have it, and you're not letting them have it for. purposes of electricity and things like.

that. So it's a little tough. You have. to use a little common sense, if you. please. >> He's very clearly opening the door to. nuclear enrichment. I imagine it's going. to have a number like below 3.67. I understand why the critics don't like. it, but that hit. totally different tone by the president. there on the question of whether Iran. can have a nuclear program. The Strait of Hormuz is going to be open. to commercial traffic under the. agreement, but it says. for 60 days they won't charge tolls.

I what? What's going to happen after 60 days? Clearly, we're going to seed. that they do have control over the. strait, they and Oman. Those are the two. countries that abut the Strait of. Hormuz. And we're apparently ready to. say, "Okay, you control it.". After 60 days, you could potentially. toll it, and we're not going to bomb. you. But I think, again, no one's saying this. explicitly, but I think the president is thinking, "If the carrots are big enough outside. the strait, they won't do that.".

You know, if we're allowing Iranian. exports to flow, if we're allowing their. oil sales of in US dollars, if we are. unfreezing their frozen assets, you know, I calculated up what I think. they may be getting on this deal and. it's looks like 500 over 500 billion. dollars. It's a big number. You remember. Donald Trump was. extremely freaked out over that JCPOA. which in which we gave Iran 1.7 billion. in cash. 1.7 billion.

Well, we're about to give them first. access to 24 billion in their frozen. assets. Um. half now, half in a little bit. And then. there are at least three other things. we're giving them. that amount to. 400 billion. Is my math off? Yes, so I guess it's not. 524 billion. It's No, it is. 300 Here's. how I came to that number. It's 24. billion in the frozen assets. It's a 300 billion dollar in.

reconstruction costs. We're not going to. pay that. It's going to come from the. Gulf Arabs. And they're going to rebuild Iran. Okay, I mean, like. money's fungible, I get it. And the. critics are like, they're just going to. use large portions of that to rebuild. their missile capacity and their drone. supply and potentially their nuclear. program. That Yeah. That's a risk. That's There's no question, that's a. risk, but we're about to do it. 300. billion dollars in reconstruction. And.

then. two separate 100 billion dollar gifts. One is US sanctions relief, relief from. US sanctions, which they estimate to be. about worth about um 100 billion. And uh one is their oil exports that the. Treasury's going to allow Iranian oil. exports again. That's about 4 billion a. month, which is 96 billion a year. So, that's 300 from the Gulf Arabs to. rebuild Iran, 100 from us on US. sanctions relief, 100 from us.

on the oil exports, and then $24 billion. to release their frozen assets. They're. going to be flush with cash. And potentially won't need whatever. they're going to do in the Strait of. Hormuz. I think that's what Trump is. banking on. But this was all, you know, you can see the downside. They weren't making any money off the. Strait of Hormuz before we launched the. war. It was an open waterway, free. to the international community for its. use. And uh now they've discovered that. that's a weapon in their.

you know, toolkit and they're not afraid. to use it against us or anybody else. And that that leads to. what President Trump was saying. yesterday. Look, it's not great. We we've talked. about how. the war was not a good idea. But it is what it is. Needed to end. There was no point in just prolonging. the inevitable. And it's going to result. in Iran getting a little richer. But the. president said the following in terms of. his justifications for getting out of. it. He said, "I didn't want to see. economic catastrophe.".

He's talking about globally and to us. To the American people. I didn't want to. see economic catastrophe, he said. He. said, "Only stupid people. wanted the war to continue, wanted me to. continue dropping bombs.". He said he did not want to be compared. to Herbert Hoover. He's He is bring- bringing that into the. conversation, who of course presided. over the Great Depression here in the. United States. He was accurately reading the. consequences. of that strait being closed. It all came.

down to that, you guys. The the strait. was causing. oil barrels not to emerge. from a region in which 1/5 of the. world's oil supply travels. And it was affecting us, it was. affecting international neighbors. Um. here at home. our strategic. petroleum supply, our reserves, are down. it's the lowest they're at the lowest.

level since 1983 right now. 172 million. barrels have been released to try to. save people from the pain of that. straight being closed. And still our gas prices are over four. bucks. Here by me in Connecticut, they. were over $5 at one point. They're going. back down, but Trump was seeing the. writing on the wall. Uh the strategic petroleum supply is. it's down by half. It's only 47% full. right now. 47% full because of the disbursements.

they've been making to try to ease your. pain at the pump. The president was very. focused on this even though his public. messaging was I don't care. Remember he. said. the increased prices are worth it. Well, that was Trump being a marketer. You know, he he did care and he saw what. we saw, which was these prices were not. sustainable as a practical matter for. Americans who are hurting or as a. political matter for the Republican.

Party, which was going to shoulder the. blame for this. in these midterms and beyond. So, I. appreciate the honesty. I do. I. Look, it's better if the honesty had. been there all along, but I appreciate. him getting really straight with us. yesterday. And just kind of admitting, "Look, I had. to do this and this is why I had to do. it and and. and it's a good idea that he did it. It. is a good idea. I know people don't like. the deal. It's not great. As I said, Iran's going to be rich. Okay. It had to be done. Just accept reality.

You know, Rand Paul, who I really like, he tweeted out something to the to the. following effect. He said um that the. people objecting now. um. to the closure of this war and the end. of this deal, quote, are the architects. of every failed intervention of my. lifetime. Right. Like we have to stop listening to. these people. The super neoconny hawk, whatever you. want to call them, they're.

they're operating under an outdated view. of the world and of the American. attitude and capability. You know, Iran basically brought us. to a surrender. by using a bunch of drones to bomb. traffic through the strait and using a. bunch of drones to deplete half of our. interceptors, which are basically the. counter missiles. You know, they had these cheap drones, which could be like 30 grand each,

that it was getting help from China and. Russia with, but it had its own ample. supply. And it used them to great effect. Our. interceptors cost like between 4 to 7. and beyond million. uh to to make and we were expending them. on these relatively inexpensive drones. to the point now where they um our. missile defense system is facing a. critical inventory crisis, according to. experts, that we have burned through 40%. of our available interceptors.

And the experts say it's going to take 2. to 3 years to replenish. Now, President. Trump is trying to put the pedal to the. metal on that. You know, you saw he met early-ish on in. this conflict with um. military contractors to see if that. could be sped up, but there's a reason. that needed to happen. We are down. again. I mean, 40%. We are we burned through 40% of our. available interceptors, so we're down to. 60%. Right, we used 60%. Um.

We used 40%. We're down to 60%. You. know, me and the math, we don't get. along well. So, in any event, all of this cost us too. And the president saw, we got got get out. All right, Iran was. able to fight this war with relatively. cheap and easy technology. We, in the. way we fight wars, are over budget and. over bloated and out of date. That's. actually another benefit of having done. this that we learned it. we learned it in dealing with an enemy.

that actually doesn't have the power to. to destroy us. like China does or Russia. You know, which has nukes. Um. so it's good. It's good to be reminded. of here's the reality of where you stand. in 2026 America and Pentagon planners. Uh we are not quite. as deft as we used to be. And this is another risk that many. people who oppose this war had. predicted. You know, to say like. you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what you don't know.

And this is not. it's not worth doing. It's not worth. expending our interceptors. It's not. worth expending our blood and treasure. like the 13 service personnel who were. killed. Uh it's not worth. alerting. a country like Iran. to a different kind of nuclear bomb it. possesses, which is control over the. strait. All those things have come true. Okay, we get it. That's sort of. yesterday's news. It's how I see this. conflict is. the things that are making people upset. are the results of launching the war not.

the result of ending it. You know, the the things that are making. people upset are the things. that resulted from launching the war. Not ending it. We launched the war, they got the. control of the strait and now we have to. deal with that reality. So we either. have to let them make money off that. strait, which is a no or we're going to. have to release some of these. monies to them. Cuz they've got this chip. You know, they're they're going to make. it hard for us and the world if we. don't. So if you want to be mad about. something, be mad about the fact that it. was launched. Don't be mad about.

President Trump accepting the reality. that it needed to end to spare you and. me and all the rest of us $7 gas. There. was a report out yesterday that the. president had been warned. if this continued through the summer, that's what we'd be looking at, $7 gas. Can you afford $7 gas? Do you Do you think. the the GOP could hold the Senate in. November with $7 gas? I mean, it's a nightmare.

Um. now some of the president's. critics, of course, are very unhappy. Um they are. ripping on on the president for this. entire thing. The ones who were his. biggest supporters when this thing got. launched have, of course, turned on him. We. all knew that that would happen. It's amazing cuz like. there are others. who support the president, objected to. the war, and made that clear. And for 3.

months now have been getting called. Nazis and anti-Semites by these neocon. war hawks. Um now those same people who were the. original never Trumpers are all turning. on the president. I mean, one by one. they're turning on the president. This. deal's a disaster. You know, calling him names to the point. where the president came out. just this morning and started ripping on. them. Calling them stupid. Um he's abandoning them because they've. they're abandoning him. I mean, it was. all predictable. We knew it was going to. happen. Is anybody shocked?

Uh and so here is. a little bit more from the president. The issue of. the frozen money. Okay, again, there's three sections. There's sanctions relief, there's Iran's. oil exports, and then there's Iran's. frozen assets. And this last question. is about the frozen assets. Peter Doocy of Fox News asked it in. South 12. >> Can you explain though what the. difference is between giving Iran US.

dollars and unfreezing. US dollars for. >> Well, the unfreezing is easy one to. answer. We have taken. a lot of their money. And we have their money. We have. taken them. It's not our money. It's. their money and we froze it at a certain. point in time. I guess we're going to. have to give it back. You know, if we. didn't give it back, nobody would ever. invest in the dollar again. If you took their money, cuz I thought.

about it. You know, I'm not the most. perfect person. I said to Scott, "Scott, why don't we keep their money? What the hell are we giving it back to. them?". But you know, people from lots of. nations, some nations we don't agree. with. They have their money. With the. dollar has become very strong under me. And. they don't want to have a little. conflict with somebody and end up having. the United States just take their money. So, if you do that, you really don't. have a a system.

>> The president there referring to the. fact that. the the I don't know what Doocy was. referencing with 150 billion, but we. have 24 billion of Iranians. money of the Iranians money frozen in. foreign bank accounts. Most of which is revenue from oil sales. that Iran was paid, but was never able. to withdraw due to sanctions per the. Wall Street Journal. So, it's their. money. that we've just kind of seized. We're. not spending it. We're just not allowing. them to have it and we're about to. uh we're about to and that 24 billion.

Then he spoke more on the missiles. And he got very frank about the fact. that like. I'm stopping their nuclear program, but I can't take away all of their. ability to defend themselves in this. region. They're not going to agree to. that. Listen to sound 11. >> Non-nuclear issues such as the. conventional ballistic missiles, which. we'll be talking about. And support I mean, they have to have. some because other people have some.

They got to have some. Somebody said, "They sh- you shouldn't give them one.". And I have guys I like some of these. guys. But, I don't think this is don't think. they're smart. Sir, you shouldn't let them have any. missile. I said, "Well, what am I going to do? Am. I going to let Saudi Arabia have. missiles, but they can't have them?". Yes, sir. Can't doesn't work that way, you know. It doesn't work that way. Missiles. aren't the problem. Missiles are. they hurt a little location, but they. don't blow up the planet.

>> It's a compromise position. Now, his critics point out that he did. say on launching this war, his goals. were number one, to annihilate their. missile program, um to defang Iranian proxies. like Hezbollah and it's uh and so on. He wanted the re- regime change to. liberate the Iranian people, and he wanted to end their nuclear. program. Well, I mean, we had ended. their nuclear program. 12 months earlier, I mean, than now.

But, the missile program's not. annihilated. The proxies are still alive and well. Hezbollah is still operating in Lebanon, and we didn't achieve regime change. in a way that would liberate the Iranian. people. That's what he said. Um so, I. get it. The people are saying you're not. doing what you said you'd do, but. President Trump's being realistic here. There's sort of your list of goals. It's. like the beginning of the summer. I'm. going to lose 10 lb. I'm going to eat. well. I'm going to stop drinking. I'm. going to stop smoking. Whatever it is. that you do.

And then you get to August and like. you're staring down the approach of. Labor Day, and it's like you lost two. You cut out like, you know, processed. foods. >> [laughter]. [gasps]. >> You know, you did a little bit more. exercise, but you still have an. occasional cigarette. You know, it's a compromise position. It was a goal. We definitely expended. some of their missile program and. targeted some of their missile program. And there's the president being. realistic about the fact that the. Iranians are not going to agree.

to anything that looks like dismantling. their missile program or or we're not. going to expend any more of our. strategic. uh military. technology in trying to take it out. Here's the tweet he actually put out. earlier, the Truth Social. These fools. who think I haven't been tough enough on. Iran. when the stock market just hit a record. high and oil prices are tumbling down. are either jealous, bad people, or. stupid. Make America great again. So, he doesn't.

appreciate his new found friends turning. on him on a dime. And why are they? Because they're very, very worried about. Israel. That's what they're worried about, Israel. Well, guess what? This needed to. end for the sake of America, the country. you've chosen to live in. The country that should be your first. concern. All right? Israel's going to have to. fight its own battles now. President Trump has learned that. Sorry.

Going to have to deal with that fact. There's more. Um. Do we play South 13, Deb? I don't think we did. No, we didn't. Okay, so this is on the question of we. we played him talking about. he was open to Iran enriching uranium. saying it's a little hard when other. people do it and have it. And here's a. little bit more on that in South 13. >> It is a little hard though when you say. that somebody wants it, other people. have it, other adjoining states have it,

and you're not letting them have it for. purposes of electricity and things like. that. So, it's always a little tough. You have to use a little common sense. >> Okay, there we go. A little bit more. evidence on what he's thinking on. enrichment, which seems to be he's going. to allow it to some certain extent. And. on the subject that I was just. discussing about Israel, the president has figured Bibi out. He's. figured out Netanyahu. He understands. I you know, the thing about Gaza.

We all went through 10/7 again on this. 10/7 together on this show. Don't don't you all remember the day. that happened and we were on the air. crying together? It was so brutal. What Hamas did to Israel. It was so disgusting and depraved. And in the early months of that war I. mean, honestly, for like the first year. of that war was very hard for me to look. at Israel and pass any judgment. whatsoever after what we saw them do.

to Israel. And I defended Israel at every turn and. I went on other programs and defended. them and I I defended Marco Rubio for. deporting people who were celebrating uh. what had happened to Israel. I just. could not believe the lack of humanity. against Israel Israelis. And I still. can't believe it. I still think it's. depraved. I have abs- I I haven't. I I make no apologies whatsoever for the. evil Hamas. But let's face it, it went on too long. The Israeli response was to carpet bomb. Gaza out of existence.

We've got tens of thousands dead. civilians. Tens of thousands civilians. dead. That's an agreed upon number by. both sides. Women, children, elderly. The amount of innocents who have been. killed in Gaza so. dwarfs the amount who were killed on. 10/7 in Israel that you truly have to be. have to be barbaric or heartless to not. factor it in in evaluating what happened. in the Middle East over the past 3. years. We have to look.

And I don't even think that Israel's. response needed to be proportionate. I. told that to Piers Morgan. like 8 9 months ago. That our response wouldn't be. proportionate. You know, what. we wouldn't be concerned with with that. if that happened to Dallas, Texas or New. York, or you know, any place in the United States, we. wouldn't say, "Oh, make sure it's. proportionate.". We would want to punish, and that's what. Israel did, too. But, we also wouldn't commit a genocide.

We wouldn't carpet bomb. And And that's what they did. That's what happened in Gaza. And so, Israel's in a really tough. position now, because it's lost the. support of the international community, obviously. They've become a pariah. of the entire Democrat Party, of all of in the Independent Party, like. all Independents in the United States. are completely against Israel. And now, 40% of Republicans, latest numbers are. between 30 and 40% of Republicans have. turned on Israel. They no longer. approve. And it's as a direct result of.

all of this, what they did in Gaza, what. they're doing in Lebanon now. They're. trying to grab territory there. They say, "Oh, it's because, you know, we're getting bombed. We're getting. bombed by Hezbollah." That's not the. full story, friends. It's just not. And even the president has seen it. And people have turned on them, because. they got us into this war, obviously. They convinced Donald Trump to do it. They told him all sorts of. pie-in-the-sky stories. He believed it. We've never. deprived President Trump of his own. agency, but it was at their behest. They're the. ones who pushed him into it. They had.

this situation room briefing with. Netanyahu present, and the massage chief. coming in via satellite. And then, it. was. very clear how he was persuaded to do. this, at least to me. And the president now has had his. lightbulb moment, pushing back for the first time. We've seen it over the past couple of. weeks as he's getting more irritated as. Netanyahu continues to queer every or. try to every peace deal or every. ceasefire that we enter into. He doesn't. understand, you're the junior partner. While we're involved fighting your war, sit down and do as you're told.

Now, we're going to get out of it, and. we're going to tell him the same stuff. He's not going to obey. And I think. we're not going to get involved. But, at at a minimum, when we're holding. hands still as BFFs, you're the junior, okay? We're the senior. You wouldn't have any of this ability if. it weren't for us, and it's about to dry. up. So, here was the president talking about. Israel's behavior in sub-14. >> They've been a good partner. I Again, I think they could do better.

with respect to Hezbollah. I'm not saying they shouldn't protect. themselves. I'm saying. when two drones are shot into the desert. and drop harmlessly, you don't have to. knock down buildings. in Beirut. They could behave better. And frankly, they could do a better job. Uh. I. I love them as a partner. They were. terrific, but they could do a much. better job with Hezbollah. >> The president sounding slightly under.

the weather there, uh with scratchy. voice. W- We wish him well. Um. here's here's the bottom line, okay? I'm. going to wrap this up. Here's the bottom. line. It's a great thing that this war is. coming to a close. It It's a great thing, and the president. should be praised, and you should not. listen to these frothing-at-the-mouth. neocon hawks who want more war. When. they rip all over this deal, what. they're really pushing for is more. bombing. Cuz there's no alternative to. Trump right now. There is no alternative. The Iranians. are not going to bend. They did well in. this war. They actually did very well against us.

That's the reality. And Trump has accepted that reality and. is trying to cut our losses. Good for. him. Good for him. He's a practical man. Let's pray he does not submit to the. pressure. from these much more hawkish folks who. have been cozying up to him for the past. 3 months, who hated his guts prior, and resume a bombing campaign. It is good that President Trump has. learned the truth about listening to. Netanyahu and these people.

It is good that all future presidents. will have this excursion as. an an. example of what happens. when you try Middle East adventurism. Not just like, okay, I mean, we had. that. I realize, you know, we had that. with Iraq and Afghanistan, but we. thought we could do the quickie here. We. thought we could do the Venezuela. And. we've learned the hard way you can't. You can't, not without major. consequences that are very negative for. us.

And look at, you know, the president's. approval ratings, the Republican. approval ratings, the fracturing of the. president's coalition, white. working-class men no longer supporting. the president. What? In anywhere near. the numbers that they did. Uh blacks are gone, Hispanics are gone, independents are gone, gone. All groups that were with the president. are gone. So, there's work to be done. to regain the trust of those voting. blocks, which do matter. And I But the upside of it is future. presidents will look at what President. Trump's at war did to his own numbers.

This was the Fifth Avenue moment, and. they actually. did abandon him. All but the very, very. core MAGA. did abandon the president when it comes. to approval rating, which can be. reversed. It can be reversed. So, that's something that's a warning. And last but not least, Israel has been. exposed, and the hawks have lost their power. They've lost their power. They are not. credible sources of information, and uh.

their foreign policy predictions have. been universally disastrous. So, hopefully we can get back to thinking. about America, governing for American. interests, focusing like a laser on the. US economy, and we can stop focusing on the Strait. of Hormuz, as Sarah says, my friend and. hair stylist. Uh okay, we're going to. take a bre- break. We're going to come. back. We're going to do a great Kelly's. Court, and then we'll have Alex Berenson. [music] on dads in just a bit. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta,

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updates in the Carmelo [music] Anthony. story. The judge in the trial speaking. out, you never see that. Plus, author. Amy Griffin is now suing the woman who. alleges Amy stole her story for her. best-seller, The Tell. You remember this. book where she claimed she had recovered. memories of growing up in Amarillo, Texas. Nobody knows who Amy Griffin is, but she's married to a very rich $6. billion. dollar. in New York, and she's used her. husband's money to invest in various.

female empowerment type companies like. Gwyneth Paltrow and. people like that who then all promoted. her book. So it became a best seller and. then she made the Time 100 as this. terrible terribly like put upon me too. victim like feel sorry for me. I I don't. enjoy your six billion dollars. and. it turns out that according to the New. York Times she.

may have stolen the story from a girl. from the wrong side of the tracks who. she grew up with in Amarillo, Texas that. these weren't Amy's recovered memories. These were her. like classmates memories. and it tracks because Amy was from a. very well-to-do family. She was very. popular. She was like the head. cheerleader or what have you and that's. not generally the one. that the inappropriate gross math. teacher chooses to abuse. Sadly, they.

usually choose girls from broken. families can be boys too especially when. it comes to childhood sexual abuse. broken families who can't threaten them. as much or who can be demeaned or. diminished or don't have means and so. on. Anyway, it doesn't mean it can't. happen to a well-off girl but there were. holes in the story from the start. and then the New York Times found this. woman who went to school with Amy who. says she stole my story and not only. that but then that woman filed a lawsuit. against Amy Griffin saying.

not only did you steal my story you came. out here you met with me shortly before. the publication of your book. and you got me to send you a postcard. as like hey so good to be back in touch. and then you clearly. co-opted that story for your book saying. this other girl Claudia who you went to. school with who also got allegedly raped. by the man you're claiming raped you, sent you a postcard out of the blue. And and it seemed to you to be. telegraphing that like me, too.

After your memoir was published. And so. this woman's like, "You're a fraud. You. stole my story. You asked me to have. coffee. You gave me a postcard or asked. me to buy one and then wrote out your. address for me to send it to you. And. then you wrote about it in the book like. there's this other person named Claudia. who was also raped, but that's not the. truth. Only I was as far as I know." So. it just says this woman, she not. exactly, but like that. And then and you did it all to. self-aggrandize so that you could wind. up on Gwyneth Paltrow's show and Oprah's.

show and Jenna Bush Hager and wind up at. the Time 100. Well, now she, Griffin, is cross-county. suing. the that woman. And it's turned into a true she said, she said. where like the one of them is absolutely. lying. 100%. One of them is making up a bunch of. stuff. And we just don't know who. So it's a. very interesting case. That's where. we're going to kick it off. We got three. pals here today on Kelly's Court, Mark.

Eiglarsh, co-host of Positively Legal on. MK True Crime, which you should. subscribe to at your podcast service or. on youtube.com. Andrew Branca, who's. host of the Andrew Branca Show, and Dave. Aronberg, who's co-host of the MK True. Crime Show, who you can also find on Substack now. cuz Dave's finally sharing his legal. gifts with us in multiple forums now. that he's no longer. county attorney for Palm Beach. Great to. see you all. >> Hey Meg. Good to be here. >> Okay, so. am I right, Mark? It's a It can't They.

can't both be telling the truth in in. this particular circumstance. It's. either Amy Griffin or Jane Doe, as she. refers to herself in the lawsuit, one of. them is making up a bunch of whoppers. >> Right. It This is one or the other. One. is a horrible person and I'm hoping. through the lawsuit, we're going to find. out who it is. Um I'm so desperate to. know and I can't just sit and wait. So, like I'm like I'm investigating. I. watched an interview um of the attorney.

who filed the lawsuit trying to gauge. what kind of person what's what's he. about, you know? Is he a. >> The one representing Jane Doe. >> Yeah. Is he an ambulance chaser? Is he. just in for the money? No, man, the guy. seemed legit. So, he's willing to. bankroll this lawsuit based upon the. evidence that he has uncovered. That put. a put a little plus in the in the column. over there. I I don't know, Megan, but. this is this is pretty bad. I'm not.

ready to call her a snake yet, you know? You you seem to be leaning towards, you. know, she stole the story, but we really. don't know. We don't know yet. >> We don't know. We don't know. I want to. make that clear. I don't I don't want to. throw Amy Griffin under the bus. I. actually know Amy a little. Um she's. always very nice to me. It's just if if. if she did this, she's a horrible. person. >> agree there. Yeah. >> Yeah, but we we just don't know because. now Well, we didn't know at any point, but now this woman's come forward saying. um she is a horrible person. She did.

steal and what Amy's saying in response. um Dave is that. she never went out there and met with. this Well, she's like, "I never went to. Palm Springs at all," which I guess is. where the woman allows claims the. meeting took place. And she's been able to produce no. receipts to show otherwise because they. asked her for documents, and she said, "I don't have any responsive documents.". So, she's kind of saying, "Put up or. shut up.". But, I mean. either the woman is totally fabricating. that Amy Griffin flew out there and they.

met together and they did this postcard. thing, or Amy is completely lying when. she says she never met with this woman. with whom she did meet. >> Yep. Megan, it's a binary choice here. One of them is lying, and you prove it. Just show the receipts, right? I mean, Amy Griffin is saying in her lawsuit. that she has documented proof that she. wrote out her account in 2020, and then. she gave a formal interview with the. Amarillo Police Department in 2021, and. that's before the Jane Doe came out with.

her account in 2022. And so, >> It's No, it's it's before Amy allegedly. went and met with Jane Doe. >> Right, correct. So, that would that. timeline really does inure to the. benefit of Amy Griffin, right? If she in. fact wrote out her own story and gave a. police report in 2021 before she ever. met with the Jane Doe, then. that should be game over, right? I mean, >> It doesn't though. >> Well, yeah. >> No, it shouldn't. I I get I understand. why you think that, but the it shouldn't.

because the allegation by Jane Doe is. that Amy knew all about Jane's sexual. assault from when they were children. That she told Amy that that she borrowed. Amy's dress to go to this cotillion and. then gave it back to Amy after she Jane. Doe had been sexually assaulted by the. teacher, and it had bodily fluids on it. And so, she believes I can't remember if. the allegation is that she directly told. Amy about it or that the dress made it. clear and that there were others in the.

community who knew, and she's presuming. Amy understood all of this long before. Otherwise, why would Amy have known to. call her? Why would Amy have asked to. meet with her? And then she also alleges. Amy then. So, in other words, she's claiming Amy. wrote that down that story before she. met with Jane Doe because Amy knew it. from her childhood. She'd been told the. story. And that she just rounded back to. Jane Doe to like affirm up the story, maybe add a couple of details, and. possibly just to strong-arm Jane Doe. into giving her this postcard so that.

she could use it in the actual memoir. >> But, isn't the 2019 coffee shop meeting. really important here, right? In in in. Palm Springs. Griffin says that she has. documentation she wasn't even in the. area at the time. So, I mean, all these. holes. >> That's bizarre. >> Yeah. That That's a problem. >> Yes, I agree. That one That one threw me. for a loop, too, as somebody who's has. has been critical of Griffin on this. Like, if she wasn't there. if she Like, whatever. People can get. dates wrong, you know, it's possible. Uh but if she never flew out and met.

with this woman, then the woman's a a. fabulist. Then then the woman's Jane Doe. is not telling the truth. >> You know, she did it. >> which is a possibility. >> Yeah. And she did a tactical move, uh. Megan, because Jane Doe, she was able to get anonymity by filing. the privacy lawsuit in California. So, what Amy Griffin did, smartly, was to. file in Nevada a defamation lawsuit, which outs her, which actually produces. her name. It's just not being named in. the press. So, this is a pressure. campaign, also, to say, "Okay, you're. not going to be able to hide behind. anonymity much longer.".

>> Yes. Well, here's the other thing, though, Andrew. They're not suing the New York Times, Amy Griffin, right? As far as I. They're not sued. But they're the ones. who broke the story of Jane Doe. Maureen Callahan, actually, in the MK. Media Network first came out about the. tale, saying, "I smell a rat." She had. read the Amazon reviews where woman. after woman was saying kind of what I. said at the top, which is. there's some like deviant math teacher. who's raping young teens in an Amarillo.

school, no one ever heard a whiff about. it, and he chooses the most popular girl. in school, the the prom queen, rich. girl. Like, that does not track. That's. not a thing. So, Maureen did a segment. on it. Then the New York Times did a. deep dive in which they produced Jane. Doe. They didn't cite her, but they. found this whole new element to the. story, which is like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Amy's recovered memories are actual. memories. from this other girl, but it wasn't the. teacher that Amy Griffin is accusing. It.

was a different teacher who then left. the school. And the New York Times, Andrew, is standing by its reporting. 100% saying, "It all checks out. We We. don't move 1 in off of our reporting.". >> Well, the problem is in in the law, the. truth is always kind of ephemeral, right? I mean, for example, juries never. really know what happened. We try to get. the closest approximation of the truth. that we can. And the trouble with these. cases that they all happened decades.

ago. Statutes of limitation exist for a. reason. And And we see a repeated cycle. of this. We see E. Jean Carroll accusing. Trump over things that happened 2 3. decades ago. We saw Christine Blasey. Ford accusing Brett Kavanaugh of things. that happened 36 years ago. These events. happened decades ago. There's no way for. anyone to really defend themselves. against these charges just giving the. passage of time. >> Um my team's reminding me. Correct. They She didn't sue the New.

York Times. Uh Amy didn't. And that Jane. Doe does claim in her lawsuit that she. told her church group about her alleged. sexual assault that she alleges as. follows, "During said church youth group. meeting, uh which both plaintiff Doe and. defendant Amy Griffin attended with a. number of other individuals, plaintiff. Jane Doe asked for Jesus's forgiveness. due to the sexual assault by the teacher. which had occurred at the Sadie Hawkins. dance." So, I was right. She Dave, that's the point. She Jane Doe is. alleging Amy Griffin knew since. childhood that.

Jane Doe had been sexually assaulted by. a teacher and knew the details of it and. had the dress, which is something Amy. tells as her own memory about herself in. her book. So, she may have gone back to. Jane Doe on This is Jane Doe's version. later in life after she wrote this book. to like get a couple of extra details or. possibly even just as just to get that. postcard. But. Jane Doe's position will be. it wasn't necessary for her to learn my. story. But then she did send So here's.

the other piece of it. I'm going to let. you respond, but I've been covering this. so much. Jane Doe alleges that Amy then sent a. movie. a man a private investigator posing as a. movie producer to say, "Hey, I'm really. interested in making your story." Now, why. the guy didn't say, "I'm friends with. Amy." But she's figured it out. I mean, this woman made up this whole thing? This guy who she named, she just got a. card with a name on it and this person. saying, "I don't know this Jane Doe. I. didn't do this." But um. the. the woman is alleging that Amy sent this.

PI who posed as a movie producer to get. more details about Jane's story. And um. the movie producer is claiming that's. not true or like the the actual person. named whatever his name is says, "I. didn't go out there." So I see it's hard. to follow. But here's the other side of. that, Dave. Amy admits in her own. book. that she did hire private investigators. to run around investigating some of the.

details that she was offering. She. that's already been admitted. >> Uh okay. Now, there are a bunch of contradictions. between Jane Doe's lawsuit and Amy. Griffin's lawsuit. So to go back to the. church group which you mentioned, you're. right. Jane Doe alleged that not only. did she disclose the assault to the. church group but that Amy Griffin was. part of the church group that she was in. attendance uh there. But uh Amy Griffin. actually directly addressed that in her. lawsuit. She says that they were never. part of the same church youth group. So.

that's one of the factual disputes here. And as far as the movie producer, it's. another thing where the movie producer. himself says, "I don't know what you're. talking about. I had nothing to do I. wasn't involved any in any way." And he. sort of he says he has receipts to show. that he wasn't there meeting with her at. the time. So this is something that you. could say should be proven. I mean, this. is. >> But Jane I think is I think Jane is. going to say it was a PI posing as a. movie producer. So. >> But but. >> Jane's not a sophisticated Hollywood.

person, so she's accepting this guy's. name is whatever he tells her. >> No, that that's that's right. But the. question is who is it, right? Because. it's this whole movie producer talent. agent. That's that's the issue. Apparently, there's just a he said, she said here. And this is not like the 1970s. We. actually have like phone data and all. these other things that can show where. you were at the time. So that's why I. think we'll know by the end of this, we'll know who's telling the truth and. who's lying. >> I hope [music] you're right. All right, stand by. More Kelly's Court after this.

quick break. Don't go away. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So email. me, too. megan@megynkelly.com. or just leave a comment down below. I do. read them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very. entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber, so. you miss nothing. We value your support.

We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So thanks. And thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. Feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself? Life. constantly bombards us with silent. threats. Processed foods, artificial. light, nonstop stress, all of which can. disrupt gut health, drain energy, and. weaken immune health. When that happens,

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as well. If you are looking to take back. control of your health from the inside. out, consider Armra. And they have a. special deal for you. Go to. armra.com/megan. or enter Megan to get 30% off your first. subscription order. That's a r m r. a.com/megan. Okay, let's keep going cuz there's a lot. there's a lot more that we need to. [music] cover on other cases. Carmelo. Anthony, the 19 now 19-year-old man in. Texas who was just convicted of. murdering.

Austin Metcalfe. for no reason in a tent at a track meet. is now well saying that he's penniless. and he needs a court-appointed lawyer to. represent him on appeal. And at the same. time, Mark Iglarsch, the judge, is. speaking out. The judge gave an. interview. You never see this. It's so. rare, but the judge gave an interview. And among the things that he spoke out. about was why he did not allow cameras. in the courtroom. It's kind of. interesting. Shot 35.

>> Well, tell you I got some reports of. some things that were coming out of this. courtroom and I wondered to myself, were. they even in the same courtroom that I. was? It's that bad and I think that's. tragic. Because I think really if you. just listen to the case based upon the. facts, you'd understand it so much. better. >> Do you think it reinforced your. uh your decision to not have cameras or. or streaming inside this. >> Sort of. I will tell you this, I. sometimes I think maybe I should have at. least the audio streamed or something so. people could hear it. But at the end of. the day, I don't think. no matter what, people are going to.

distort whatever happens or whatever. they hear into their own agenda. And so. what's the point? >> That was Collin County District Judge. John Roach interviewing with. the Dallas ABC affiliate. So, I don't. know, Mark. I I agree. At least audio. would have been quite helpful. >> Absolutely. He asks, "What's the point?". The point is at least there's people. [clears throat] like me and the two. other guests who would have said, "No, that's not accurate what you're saying. We saw the testimony and we could say.

there's no way that occurred.". We were in the dark. And so now we're. reliant upon I'll use air quotes media. entities who who are telling us what's. going on inside the courtroom. So, no, I. think that he is actually reconsidering. his decision. I think if he stayed on. the bench and I I think he's gone soon, he would probably allow cameras and. likely um, you know, that would change. the energy of this whole thing. There. were such distortions during this case.

People claiming he knew the Metcalfs. when it when he didn't. Like you've got. to have more disclosure for the public. >> You know, this is your business, Andrew. You're an expert in self-defense and. that's what this case was all about, right? Whether Carmelo Anthony was just. defending himself. I know, right. exactly. He purported to make it such uh. when he when he plunged a knife into. Austin Metcalf for literally just laying. a hand on him. Um. now you've seen the reaction in the wake.

of this verdict where the some very. bizarre collective of far-leftists is. trying to say this was self-defense, black boys have boundaries, and Austin. Metcalf found out the hard way. I'm not sure loons like that could have. been persuaded if they had had a camera. in the courtroom watching black. witnesses one after the other testify. that Carmelo Anthony was in the wrong. They saw the whole thing. But it. couldn't have hurt. >> Well, the judge says people are going to.

make up lies about the case anyway, and. that's true, of course. I mean, the. Zimmerman trial, everyone just tons of. lies about that. The Rittenhouse trial. The difference is we were able to watch. I watched every minute of both those. trials. So, when the lies are put out. there as they inevitably are, you can. have a credible, informed counter. argument, the truth to contest those. lies. This judge stripped that. possibility away. I mean, as my colleague says, now we have to. rely on journalists. Frankly, journalists often have their own agenda,

they're trying to spin their own. narrative, but even when they're being. honest, they're not lawyers. They don't. know what they're not seeing. They don't. know what's important. I kept looking. for reporting on, you know, was this. subjected to? Was this preserved for. appeal? And it's just not it's not in. the reporting. So, we don't know. And. because we can't have an actually. substantively informed view about the. proceedings, we see these lies on the. internet, or at least we suspect they're. lies because they're so outrageous, but. there's no informed counter argument. It. was terrible what this judge did. And he.

could have protected those minors just. by panning the camera away from their. face, and we just would have gotten the. audio. >> Yes, very good point. We've seen that. done in many trials, and he chose not to. do it. Now, there's always going to be. this question about whether there was. some critical failure to prove that this. was, you know, it went down as as we. thought it did. Here he is, Dave, on a. subject that we've been discussing, which is the absence of any black. jurors. There were minorities, but there. were no black jurors, and here is what.

he said on sub 38. >> Like I told you before, as long as I. follow the law, uh I sleep well at night, and I'm. telling you I followed the law in that. case. Uh did I know uh what the perception was. going to be? Sure. I knew in the back of my mind what the. perception was going to be, but I'm not. here to satisfy perceptions. I'm not. here to satisfy agendas. I'm not here to. do any of those things. I'm here to. follow the law, and I did it to a T, and. I'm proud of that. Very proud of that.

>> Hmm, good for him. I mean, it's going to. be the appellate issue, that ineffective. assistance, don't you think? >> Yes, and but that's why we needed. transparency and cameras in the. courtroom because now you have. the public saying, "Well, you. intentionally struck black jurors. This. is an unfair trial." And that is. terrible cuz you want the community to. buy into it. And because there is no. transparency here, now they just believe. the worst. And there is no set quota on.

how many members of certain groups have. to be on a jury. You just have to have a. fair process. And if someone gave an. answer in jury selection that gets them. struck, as long as they're not being. struck because of race, then it's a. legitimate system and it's very unlikely. to be overturned on appeal. In fact, judges get a lot of discretion when it. comes to jury selection here. And so, I. think that even though they'll use that. on appeal, it's unlikely to overturn. this verdict. >> Mark, the. there's this guy down in this area in.

Texas who's affiliated in some way with. the parents or was like kind of. representing them as a supporter for a. while. And and and his name is. Charleston White. And he came out shortly after the. verdict and went off on Carmelo. Anthony's parents. Like flipping against them. Here's what. he said. Listen to this at 42. >> I am removing myself. from the Carmelo Anthony's case. I am no. longer involved with the family.

And here is why. I was starting to feel like. I was being used. for my influence and my connections and. resources. When I tell you we raised over $1. million. one day. privately, quietly, they wanted to start another GoFundMe. I. said, "No, I'm I'm doing the GoFundMe.". They wanted to know after we paid for. the appeal,

would the money go to him? No. The extra money don't go back to you. It goes back to the people who gave it. It don't go to nothing else. The money is for the appeal. His daddy in the way. I don't I I don't like weak I hate weak. men. I rather stand with a strong daddy like. that Mel Cap man than this black weak. father trying to play victim. You want to get the money but then. disassociate yourself from me?

I'm here for that boy. I'm here for your son, And if this money don't go directly to. your son's appeal, you don't get this. money. We send it back. >> Mhm. Okay. Well, obviously there's some drama going. on behind the scenes there between him. and the dad. But my question to you is. about these GoFundMe funds because they. raised between $600,000. and $700,000. We know the family then. moved into this mansion down in the area.

where they've been staying pending the. the trial. And. I I don't know I'm going to guess that. the lawyer representing Carmelo Anthony. was not top shelf based on the. performance that we witnessed. I don't. think he's charging Mark Eiglarsh's. fees. But the my question is simply if the. parents took the good the GiveSendGo. money. and spent it on themselves in some sort. of lavish spending spree. I don't have. proof of that but if they did, this guy. seems to be intimating they were money.

hungry for themselves. Is it Is there Is there any way of. getting it back? Is there any way of. Carmelo Anthony suing the parents? GiveSendGo? What How can that. >> I I don't think it's going to go. anywhere. >> more just? >> not going to go anywhere cuz this really. bothered me. Um I don't know I was told that that. Anthony had a public defender and that. no one spent the money on a good lawyer. So this is a private lawyer that he had? >> He's not. He used to be. >> Well, I'll tell you this. He made. He made so many mistakes in that trial.

Clearly they didn't go top shelf, right? So I read the language that was posted. on that. but it's not GoFundMe. It's something. else. But something like that. >> GiveSendGo. >> Yeah, whatever. And and the language is. so broad. It includes moving the family. for their safety. And so technically. that means what? Moving them, so buying. them a home. In other words, they. wouldn't they would survive a fraud. accusation legally. But I think they.

were intellectually dishonest. I think. that most people who donated their money. wanted this guy to get the best defense. possible and for the bulk of the money. to go for that and it didn't. >> So what I mean is do you agree Andrew. nothing can be done? >> Yeah, I don't think anything can be. done. I've I actually I've met the owner. of GiveSendGo. We talked about this case. and the funding for it cuz a lot of. these funding entities on the internet. wouldn't get involved themselves in. this. And he was willing to. But I think.

that's right. I mean the way that. there's no question people thought they. were contributing to the defense, right? But they didn't read the language in. this internet form they're they're. putting their credit card information. into. And and it is so broad it could be used. for virtually anything. And and it. clearly wasn't actually used for his. defense and won't be used for his. appeal. >> Um meanwhile the crazy messaging around. this continues Dave. The like the. spinners out there spinning. You really. truly would think that.

Austin Metcalfe. killed Carmelo Anthony. and just got off. Like that would. dovetail with what we're hearing in the. news about how Black Lives Matter. I'm. like wait a minute. No, no. A white kid. was killed. What do you Why Why are you. even making it about race? There was no. evidence at trial that this was about. race. And the latest offender is um. Danielle Hairston. Um this is posted by Breitbart on June.

13th. Listen here. Stop. >> You're holding someone accountable. Yes, okay, you should be held accountable. But when we know like scientifically. like your brain is not even developed. Like Carmelo Anthony's brain is not even. full of fully developed at 17. Even. [clears throat] at 18, even at 19, even. at 20. That's why they got people still. on their parents um insurance. >> Insurance until 26, right? Yeah.

>> Right? Because they know that they're. not developed, they're not always. responsible, and one bad thing can. happen. What's the name of the one the. go white. young person, I guess, who went to. >> Kyle Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle Rittenhouse. >> Rittenhouse. The one before him who shot. the church in South Carolina. Then they. took. >> Oh, Dylann Roof who who. >> took him to Burger King. >> Right, they took him to Burger King. after he killed nine nine beautiful. people. >> Took him to Burger King. They're sentencing thing. him to over 30 years, Carmelo Anthony,

but they took this dude to Burger King. This young boy, I guess he was a boy. So. the adultification. >> Mhm. >> is traumatizing. >> I mean, that's crazy. By the way, she's. um. a psychiatrist who is the director of. residency training in the Department of. Psychiatry at Howard University College. of Medicine, Dave. >> I mean, to compare the Dylann Roof. situation, I mean, Dylann Roof is is true evil, and uh they.

did buy. >> Shot and killed nine people. >> Awful. Awful. But every case you have to look on its. own merits, and to say, "Well, they. treated Dylann Roof." Yeah, there was a. cop who bought a meal for him from. Burger King, But, that doesn't mean that. Carmelo Anthony didn't commit murder. here. I mean, you don't bring a knife to. a shoving match. >> And Dylann Roof is he got the death. penalty. How is Carmelo How is. He's Carmelo Anthony's being treated. worse than the guy who's getting the. death penalty? >> Yeah. Well, they're saying the way the. cops treat him afterwards, but that's I.

mean, that's like a the situation we. could talk about with the guy over in. Great Britain, you know, who the the. killers who are coddled. They are police. sometimes make mistakes. >> Victim Digwa. >> Right, exactly. So, police will make. mistakes. But, yes, you're correct. Dylann Roof correctly got the death. penalty and deserved it. And when you're. talking about Carmelo Anthony, he was. given 35 years. He was He could have. been given a lot more. So, he actually. got a sentence that was in line with. what you get when you commit this kind. of act. This is a large knife that he.

brought to a trap me for whatever. reason. And he instigated it. He. provoked it. And then he's the one who. killed the innocent victim here in front. of his twin brother. And it's just an. awful situation. And to try to cast him. as the victim turns it all on its head. >> I know. It's unbelievable. I know you. got to run, Dave. Thanks for coming on. We stick with Andrew and Mark as we go. forward. Andrew, what do you make of. that? I mean, it's it's totally on brand. for this woke Howard University medical.

professor to be espousing nonsense like. that. God only knows what she tells her. students who are going to go out there. and be operating on and treating. Americans coast to coast with that kind. of psychosis introduced into their. medical school education. >> Well, you know, I have to say I actually. was really pleased how how black. Americans responded to this event. because we did have a lot of people who. struck me as crazy, like this woman. strikes me as crazy. But, there are also. a lot of black Americans on social media.

saying, "What's what's wrong with. everybody?" This was clearly a murder. They clearly had a realistic. understanding of what happened. If you. If we were back in the Zimmerman trial. eras, it would have been impossible to. find a black person in America who. thought that George Zimmerman was. legally justified, although a jury found. he did. Um it would have been almost. 100% cohesive in the black community. that that was just a racist murder of a. young black kid. It was very refreshing, frankly, in this. case to see so many um. obviously productive, hard-working black.

Americans with a realistic understanding. of what actually happened here, and not. buying into the the Black Lives Matter. type of propaganda. >> Yeah. Well, unfortunately though, you've. got sort of the elite academic class, which she represents, and then just like. the I don't even know what to refer to. the people who are outside of that. courtroom, who were like harassing, who. are saying that Austin Metcalfe should. be dug up and stabbed again. Like there. was a contingent of the black community.

down there where the trial was held in. Frisco that was absolutely abhorrent. It's not about being black, but it's. about terrible behavior. >> Right. >> But it's no accident that this woman. who's in the academy. matched their sentiment. >> Yes. >> as her takeaway. Right? It's It's. absolutely no accident whatsoever. And. and and it's deeply wrong. I mean, we. spoke with Jeff Metcalfe a week ago, and. that family is still suffering, and they. do not need to hear talks about digging. up their dead son and trying to hurt him. and the family more. Some have a.

change.org petition to have his brother. now arrested, Hunter, for alleged. assault, which there was no proof of. that whatsoever. What Hunter did was. hold his dying brother in his hands. Another thing these weirdest family the. the parents are disputing, the family of. uh Carmelo, their parents are disputing. that that he was The evidence is. overwhelming. So, this is what we're dealing with. Okay, I want to keep going cuz there's a. lot more to do. We've got Tyra Banks. Oh, maybe we should do Vikram Buddhi. before we get to Tyra since you.

mentioned it. Let's do that. So, there's. an update in the Vikram Dewa case, which. is his brother who was right there with. him, you guys, when Vikram stabbed um. poor Henry Novak and killed him in the. UK. His brother was an accessory. He was a. partner in crime. He participated He's. the one who called 911 and get gave them. a bunch of lies. In fact, we have some. of that here in sat 47. Listen, this is. the brother.

>> Yeah, we've just been attacked by. someone racially. Yeah, this. >> You talking about verbally or. physically? >> No, no, he's physically attacked my. brother. We're Sikhs. We wear turban and. he's just attacked my brother. So, I. need someone here ASAP, please. >> I hear I hear. >> I'm restraining him, so I'm not letting. him I can't let him go until this gets. sorted. I'm not being racially attacked. and letting this get away with it. >> He said this and he said that. What did. he specifically say? >> Dick. Did he racially say anything to. you? >> Huh? >> Did he racially say anything? >> He called me a. >> Called him a.

>> Okay. Is this guy fighting and. struggling trying to get away? >> Uh at the minute now he's lying on the. floor. >> So, he doesn't have any injuries? >> He's hurt his face. I think he's fallen, but. >> Hey, when you say an injury to his face, can you just tell me a bit more about. that? >> So, he's hurt his face on his mouth and. he's bleeding from the mouth. He's obviously very drunk as at the. minute. >> Just to confirm, no one's seen any. weapons? >> No. No.

>> Ugh. Mark, except the one your brother used. to stab poor Henry six times. That guy's. name is Gurpreet Dewa. And the police, I mean, the judge made. really clear he had absolutely no. belief that Gurpreet wasn't complicit. He did not like Gurpreet. It was pretty. clear in the trial. Um and we heard him. tell police, "We've been racially. attacked by a white person." He said we. are restraining him now because he has.

attacked my brother and taken his turban. off and he was recording some on. his phone. He also insisted to the. operator that there were no weapons. involved despite both brothers carrying. Sikh ceremonial knives and. said I don't know what weapon they would. be, he said. He added that quote the guy. has fallen over because he looks like. he's drunk. In fact, after Henry died. both brothers were arrested. And it's. really unclear to me to be honest why. the hell Gurpreet gets a pass.

>> Yeah, it's unclear to me too. Unless, you know, politics. >> made a decision he's not going to be. charged. >> Politics are alive and well in their. system just like it is here in America. Um I I don't get it. At a minimum he was. misleading the 911. at a maximum he was lying. So. you're asking me? I don't know. I I I. think that there was uh there was enough. evidence there to prosecute him. especially because they take that, you. know, race calling stuff, you know, so. seriously that it's a crime. Well, what.

about falsely suggesting that that's. what it was about? So I don't get it, Megan. >> Uh Andrew, I actually looked to see like. did they cut a deal with Gurpreet? You. know, sometimes you'll go to the lesser. culpable defendant and say give up your. brother and we won't come for you. That's not That's not why he's getting. off. >> No, I mean. >> They have just said we reviewed all the. all the facts and we don't see it. I I. mean, how do you not see it? It's right. there. What like what could he be.

charged with? >> Well, he could be charged with being an. accessory after the fact. There's all. kinds of charges they could have brought. against him, but you know, we'd like to. think that politics doesn't play a role. in charging decisions, but prosecutors. are politicians too. At least here in. the US they're politicians. And and this. is, you know, we have this complicating. dynamic in the UK. They're really a. multicultural nation now without. assimilation. So you have these. conflicting political constituencies. So, people are on teams and the. politicians are very sensitive not not. to anger a constituency from a political.

perspective and that's maybe the concern. they they were having here. But these. charging decisions, when you have a. politically charged environment, the. politics are going to play a role more. often than not, unfortunately. >> This is outrageous. The mother was. charged for hiding the knife. This guy. was even more complicit than the mother. He's the one who led the police down the. wrong path about what had actually. happened there, directly leading to. Henry's death. If they had shown up.

having a better understanding that okay, you can lie, whatever you're going to. say was self-defense. about why this happened, but they lied. about the fact that that there'd been a. stabbing, that there were weapons. involved, that Henry was bleeding to. death. As he called. This is so wrong. The UK law enforcement is nothing to be. admired. I mean, every single thing that. drops in the news about them makes me. glad I live in America. Okay, turning the page to Tyra Banks. This is very interesting, Mark. She is. suing Netflix.

for their fake documentary about her. show, America's Next Top Top Model. We've talked on this show with our. audience for years about how these. documentaries on Netflix are nothing of. the sort. You know, I wouldn't go so far as to say. mockumentary, but they should be called. docu-dramas. cuz they take a nugget of truth, you. know, a couple things that we know. There was a show called America's Next. Top Model. Tyra Banks was its creator. and host. There was drama involving models. And. then they dramatize. storylines. I've heard this from so many.

people who have been connected to these. products. And I have to say good for. Tyra Banks for. doing something about it. You're going. to tell me whether you think she's got a. legal claim, but I'm glad she's calling. attention to this. She says they. manipulated her participation in their. documentary on her show. It's a lawsuit accusing them of um. of defamation through deceptive editing. She claims that the 3.5-hour interview.

she did for the series was heavily. manipulated and cut down to only 16. minutes to create a false narrative. She. says clips were stripped of context and. resembled uh and and and reassembled to. support a false and defamatory narrative. unrelated to what actually was. expressed. She contends that the. accountability she took for some of the. more controversial moments in the show. were edited out entirely of the. docu-series. She says um look, I didn't limit the. approaches or the topics that they could. they could come at me with, but um.

they sold this as a documentary and they. made an active effort quite clearly to. take out all context in my denials. There are two topics in particular. One, it's about season 2 and it's contestant. Shandi Sullivan allegedly being sexually. assaulted while on the show. In the. series, Shandi Sullivan recalls the. situation when the models were in Italy. and male models who had driven the girls. around Milan that day came over to their. house. She could be seen, Shandi could,

in the original episode drinking wine. and partying in a hot tub um before. getting in bed with one of the men. Listen to shot 43 with Shandi Sullivan. talking about what happened to her. uh in season 1. >> I remember him on top of me. I was. blacked out. No one did anything to stop it. And it all got filmed, all of it. I. didn't even feel sex happening. I just.

knew it was happening. >> Okay, so that's her in the documentary. recounting this terrible thing that. happened to her. And. she says I I I was hammered. I think I. had two bottles of wine by myself, but. this terrible thing happened to me and I. was like, holy what happened to. me? According to the lawsuit that Tyra. filed, the series allegedly implies that. Banks knowingly allowed this contestant. to be sexually assaulted and then did. not even remember when asked about it, okay? This is the Tyra Banks clip at.

issue from the so-called documentary sub. 44. >> A more difficult territory is Shandi. >> Shandi. >> Okay. You remember the story with. Shandi? >> Um. >> Okay. So, they show her eyes up like. searching. Um. Tyra. is not happy. She's not asked about that. at all. Or she's not happy about that at. all. Um. she's asked about Shandi a little bit.

more and here's more of it in sub 45. Watch. >> Remember the story with Shandi? >> Um. Uh I do remember her story. It's a. little difficult for me to talk about. production because I'm that's not my. territory. [music] I'm not head of. story, that's Ken Mok. But I did become a master editor. It's. important for people to know that we. didn't put everything on TV. >> Okay, so the bottom line is, Mark, she's. claiming they made her look pretty.

heartless. Like she didn't even remember. this girl. She had to search for it. Then she was kind of defensive. And in. her lawsuit, Tyra claims. that. >> [clears throat]. >> she was not aware that Shandi had. classified what happened to her as a. sexual assault. She says had she been. told that that was her perception, she. would have addressed it in that context. She would have explained the seriousness. with which she treats such issues. And. then she would have stopped the. interview. Um then she claims that. she didn't actually look up and search.

to remember who Shandi was. She says the. implication is devastating and. deliberate that Tyra cannot even. remember the story of the woman who was. assaulted, but that was false. The full. footage she alleges is that the. interview reveals two things that the. producers cut out and didn't want the. viewers to see. Before the upward. glance, she nods affirmatively and. unmistakably and immediately says, "I do. remember her story.". By carving out the nod in the middle of.

the sequence and cutting off Ms. Banks'. comment at the end, the producers. ensured that viewers would see only the. lie and not the truth. >> Yeah. >> Thoughts? >> That's what they do. I like this lawsuit. for a lot of reasons. I think that if. what she's alleging can be proven, then. she's meet the elements and she deserves. to be compensated. They dramatically. affected her brand and she should be. compensated. But, it highlights a bigger. problem. We're all watching these.

documentaries thinking, erroneously, that they're being factually accurate. The best example recently was The Crash. Most of us saw that. They intentionally. left out what was tantamount to an. admission while she's laying in the. hospital asking her mom, "Should we say. this? Should we allege this?" Had they. shown that in that documentary, we all. would have said, "This isn't a close. call. This girl did what's being. alleged." So, they're doing it. It's a. big problem and whether she wins and.

ultimately gets a settlement out of it, Banks is causing Netflix and others to. make sure that they get it right and. stop being so creative in their editing. >> I have to tell you from a journalistic. perspective, you would never do this. Never. Never. Any ethical journalist would know that. is totally unfair to our witness here, to our interviewee. You You must You. must include that context that she just. offered where she says, "I do remember.

her and she quickly acknowledges her. rather than making it look like she is. searching. Katie Couric did this to. a bunch of people on that gun story. Andrew. Remember that where she. tried to make it. >> She asked them a question about some. gun control issue and then the camera. pans to the panel and the panel is just. clueless. For 9 seconds they're not. saying anything to suggest they didn't. have a response to the question. That. was not their response. That was clipped. in from another portion of the video.

just to make them look hapless. The. difference there however is that those. panelists they knew they were going into. a hostile environment so they made their. own recording so they could contest it. My understanding here is Tyra Banks does. not in fact have her own recording of of. this interview. >> we don't have that to show you. >> Right. It's terrible. >> or we'd be showing it to you right now. >> So learn a lesson folks. If you're being. interviewed by the media make your own. recording. If you're being interviewed. by the media make your own recording. >> So she she did trust them and honestly.

like. I mean I stand corrected. Obviously a. journalist would do this because Katie. Couric did it and some others have now. look at 60 Minutes what what it's been. doing. However no ethical journalist. would do this. Trust me. I've been in. enough edit bays over the years where. we're making decisions about what stays. in and what comes out. In my experience. the producers, the editors and the. reporters on most stories understand. there's an ethical obligation not to. bastardize your witness, your your you. know interviewee and and even if you. can't stand them. I mean you've got to.

be fair to them. You've got to make sure. you their defense or their contacts that. they've offered is in there. Here's the. second one. It's also interesting. There. was a guy in the show named Miss J. Alexander. That's what he went by. Miss. J Alexander. He's obviously a. flamboyantly gay man and but he was a. major part of the show. He apparently wound up having a stroke. in 2022. and they aired the following exchange. with Tyra about Miss Jay's stroke. Stop.

46. >> Did Tyra come and visit you? >> [music]. >> No, not yet. She She just sent me. a text the um. >> [music]. >> that she wants to come and visit me. But um. no. Not yet. [music]. >> Okay, about Tyra. That was Miss Jay. there saying she didn't come to visit. him. Even though this guy had a stroke, it's so sad. Tyra's a That's. clearly what they're going for. She. alleges the following.

This She says perhaps the most hurtful. example of their deception involved Miss. Jay Alexander. Had the producers. informed Miss Banks. that part of the of that part of the. Netflix series and that it would include. Miss Jay saying Banks never visited him. in the hospital, Banks would have. explained that she'd been living in. Australia for 2 and 1/2 years. She would. have shared the text revealing that on a. New York trip, she did reach out to Miss. Jay to say she wanted to see him, but he. never responded. She would have shown. lengthy text change the chains that she.

was a part of where the show's crew, America's Next Top Model crew, and cast. members were all trying to figure out. how to locate Miss Jay soon after his. stroke. She would have shown how hard. she tried to get in touch with Miss Jay. personally when she had initially heard. the news of his stroke. Um then she says She goes on with an. example of Banks reaching out to a. family member of Miss Jay saying she. would have shown the text message. message that arrived from Miss Jay's.

family member who eventually texted back. months later and apologized for not. responding to Tyra's texts and multiple. calls sooner due to her being focused on. getting him better. Banks would have. explained that after that contact, she. and Miss Jay spent 3 years. communicating. They spoke live on the. phone at least once. They exchanged. voice notes, many photos, video. messages, they texted numerous times. As. recently as Christmas Day 2025, Banks. and Ms. Jay exchanged holiday messages,

and he updated her about his improved. health. She replied, "Yes, can we speak. this week?" They never did speak. Just. weeks later, the Netflix series streamed. to a worldwide audience. >> Meghan. >> She had egregious lies. >> She has every reason to be pissed off. I'd be livid, so would you. They're. essentially calling you insensitive. They're hurting her brand, but you keep. referring to them as journalists. I look. at them now as entertainers, and they're.

acting like they're journalists. They're. not. So, if we just now now look at. everything through that lens, every. documentary that you see on any of these. streaming platforms, look at it as. entertainment. It's not necessarily. factually based and in truth. It's just. not. >> I just to be clear, I was not referring. to the Netflix documentarians as. journalists. I was just saying no. ethical journalist and that's our. business is interviewing people and.

putting them on would would do this. So, their standards are clearly very. different from those that exist in the. journalism profession, even if they're. not always upheld. Andrew, does she have. a claim a legal claim for defamation? >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, this this is. beyond what's required for actual. malice. I mean, mere reckless disregard. of the truth would be enough. They're. actually fabricating the lie here. themselves affirmatively by. clipping these things together to. represent a narrative that's they know. is not true, and they're doing it for. self-serving purposes to make money, to.

get more clicks and views. If the only. way to check this kind of behavior is to. hold these people accountable and hit. them in the checkbook for large sums of. money. Then, maybe the next time. someone's doing a documentary like that, there'll be a check on it. But, as long. as there's only upside and not downside. for these people, they'll keep doing. this relentlessly. >> I agree. Don't call it a documentary. But even so, you'd get sued for. defamation. Even so, if you're going to. take a real-life person and bastardize. her behavior like this, she's going to. sue you. I mean, if people only knew,

like the number of. sessions we've had with lawyers, you. have to bend over backward. You We don't. always do it perfectly. We're I'm not. perfect either, but we try try to be. fair to the person who's not there to. defend themselves in the piece. Or if. you have one witness who's going to say. all the terrible things about them, like. factual stuff, then you go back to that other person, or you make sure if that person's filed. a legal filing, you have that. represented on there. In some way, you. have to make sure. >> [clears throat]. >> you're not misleading your audience. And.

I I just think they're in a lot of. trouble, Mark. I predict this gets. settled. >> Yeah, I do, too. And you got to look to. motive. If they didn't do what they did. to Tyra, what do you have? You have a. documentary about her being a nice. person. She's compassionate. She's. caring. Huh. Ho-hum. Fewer people going. to talk about it. It won't make the top. 10. And then, they don't make their. money. It's about motive. Same with the. crash. If we don't make it look like. it's a close call, and maybe Did she. really drive her car into the building? Hmm, let's make it a close call. Let's.

get everybody talking about it, debating. about it. That's the motive. It's money. So, guess what? Now you got to pay out. Cuz you went for the money originally, you know? >> They have more money than God at. Netflix, so they'll be fine. But they. should just cut a check. And Tyra was. was right to go public with this, and to. do the Not all lawsuits are about the. money. Some are about calling attention. to the dishonesty. and despicable behavior of people who. have a national platform. Guys, thank. you. >> Thanks, Megan. Wonderful to see you, Mark. You as well, Andrew. Happy to be.

here. >> To be continued. All right. Up next, Father's Day is this Sunday. Pay. attention, everybody. Father's Day is. this Sunday. And Alex Berenson used to. write for the New York Times, one of the. greatest commentators during the whole. COVID pandemic with real. actual facts that he pushed back on when. people were trying to spin the. narratives, was censored, sued, won. I. mean, this guy, he's heroic in many. ways. He's got some thoughts on. fatherhood in America. Not parenthood. He wants to draw a a distinction between.

parenting and fathering. >> [music]. >> And we're going to talk about it next, just in time for the big day on Sunday. If you are heading into summer without a. medical emergency kit, you're taking a. risk most people don't even think about. until it's too late, and an unnecessary. one. Summer colds linger. They can turn into. sinus infections that last for weeks. Getting sick right before vacation can. derail everything. And when you are. traveling, finding a doctor and pharmacy. is stressful. But let me tell you about. the medical emergency kit from the.

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with our promo code MK at. urgentcarekit.com/mk. That's promo code MK at. urgentcarekit.com/mk. Father's Day is this Sunday, and we have. [music] a friend of the show here to. talk about his latest book, which. focuses on his experience as a dad and. advice for all dads. Look, it's not too. thick. It's a nice easy read. It's more. like a booklet. And it's called The. Fatherhood Manifesto. It's written by.

Alex Berenson, former New York Times. reporter, the independent voice behind. the popular Substack Unreported Truths, and the author of this book. The. subtitle under Fatherhood Manifesto is a. defense of fatherhood and 50 practical. tips to be a better, more involved dad. Alex, great to see you. I love the idea. of this and I love the advice in this. So, what made you write this? Why did. you think this is necessary? >> it's amazing to me that it is necessary. to write something like this. But, as I. you know, as I say in the in the.

beginning, you know, this is sort of a. two-part uh booklet. Um and the first. part is a philosophical defense of. fatherhood. And it's again, it's. stunning to me that anyone needs to say. this. But, really for the last 30, 40. years, I mean, you can almost trace it. back maybe to The Simpsons, uh Married. with Children, we've engaged culturally, uh uh you know, on the left, but I I. would say even more broadly than that, in a devaluation of of fatherhood, of. traditional masculinity, of you know, of.

structured parenting. And we've really. we've really Listen, moms are uh you. know, the center of a household, but we. have feminized parenting, I think, in a. way that leaves almost no room for for. fathers. And so, this what I. I have three kids, and I think at some. point I I was like, where is there. something positive that I'm seeing in. the culture about being a dad? And I. didn't see anything, and I thought, you. know what, I should write this.

>> Mhm. Yes, honest, when I grew up, we. watched Little House on the Prairie and. The Waltons non-stop. And while those. were, you know, they're kind of cute and. a little hokey by now, but they they had. strong father figures, you know? Charles. Ingalls. >> Show, right? I mean, from the '80s, right? We But, but that that's been gone. really since then. >> So, why why do you say that fatherhood. has been feminized? >> Well, so I think that, you know, so this. is a broader issue, right? And one of. the things about the Fatherhood.

Manifesto is the tips. Some of them are. really specifically, I think, for dads, but some of them can apply to fathers. and mothers. And the longest The longest. tip in the whole book is. reject gentle parenting, right? And so, gentle parenting is this idea, essentially, that parents and children. are completely equal, and that, you. know, you can never just tell your kids. what to do. You can never just say, "Hey, you're going to clean up your. room. I'm not telling you why you have. to do this. I'm not negotiating with you. about this. I'm not sparing your.

feelings about this. You are just going. to do this, and it's because I say so, because I'm the dad, because I work hard. to, you know, make money for this family. and to provide for this family and to. protect you, and that's good enough. That's enough." And, you know, mothers. mothers work hard and provide as well. But, you know, I think that we we have. an expectation sometimes that mothers. will be more nurturing, more gentle, and, you know, that's a different role. But, when we take away the authority.

role that that I think that a father. should have, uh we we undercut him and give him sort. of nothing to do. He then just becomes a. lesser mom. But, so the gentle. parenting, to me, that applies to both. mothers and fathers, but it's even more. important to say no to that if you're a. dad. >> Mhm. Like, we all have our moments of. like, "Just do it.". >> it. And that's okay. >> But, you're saying. >> I'm saying that's okay. >> Yeah, it's okay. >> I'm saying there's a chain of command.

>> better than the alternative of. explaining everything and getting buy-in. and negotiating. It's like, "Do it now.". >> Life is not just one exercise in. self-actualization. And sometimes, to be. successful in the world, you have to do. things you don't want to do, you don't. like to do. Everybody has. responsibilities that they just have to. do. And that's true, you know, that's. that's a large part of what school, you. know, is or should be. Because if you're. I mean, look, obviously you need to.

learn, you know, a lot of facts. You. need to learn how to think. You also. need to learn how to behave and. sometimes just to take instruction and. orders. And that that is an important. part of parenting and it's certainly an. important part of being a dad. >> Very good point. You write that. um. I believe fatherhood is a fundamentally. conservative act and I believe our. cultural unwillingness to admit that has. harmed our kids, especially our boys.

What do you mean by the use of the. conservative there? >> So, conservative in not in a political. sense, in a cultural sense, right? In a. In a, you know, what we've just been. talking about. In a sense of there is an. order in a family and when and when the. order is, you know, what, we're all just. equals here and. uh you know, we're going to have. negotiations and discussions about. everything, um that order breaks down, right? And and that isn't good for for.

kids. It's not good for boys in. particular, but it's not good for either. side. And I do think that when by. undercutting sort of traditional. masculinity, there's been a lot of talk. in the last few years about uh you know, the sort of this hyper this ma- hyper. masculine. uh influencers who are out there, you. know, essentially treating women like. trash, encouraging, you know, boys and. young men to treat women like trash. That That's a terrible thing. That. shouldn't be happening. I think you can.

draw a pretty clear line though from. undercutting, you know, men who just who. just want to parent, who just want to be. able to say, I I am the dad here, um and. and the rise of those of those hyper. masculine or, you know, they're almost parodic, right? They're. almost parodies of men, as I say in The. Fatherhood Manifesto. >> You. review. >> in the book that you are relatively. recently divorced and that you have. custody of your kids and you're very.

active father. Obviously, you got. custody of them. But you also have thoughts on fighting. with your spouse. in the children's presence. So, talk to. us as a divorced dad about that cuz if. you're recently divorced, that that must. have been a challenge if you if you. don't want to fight in front of the. children. You're you're heading divorce, there's. going to be some arguments. >> Yes. And so, by the way, my my ex-wife. is is also, you know, she's very. involved with our kids and and. so, I don't want to make it sound like. she is not. But.

uh. and and and I don't go into any details. in the in the book about my divorce. I. don't think that's really. appropriate. I don't think it's really. the and it's certainly not the point of. the book. But what I will say is and. what I do say in the book is. you shouldn't fight in front of your. kids. And fighting in front of your kids. is a really bad sign for your marriage. and you really should do everything you. can to avoid doing that. Um and if and. the number one thing is you shouldn't. fight about your kids in front of your.

kids because that, you know, that. first of all, it encourages in some. cases, you know, older children to triangulate, to try to start fights so they can get. what they want and it it's very. unstable. And it's you know, if you. can't figure that out, you have to. seriously think about getting divorced, I think. And and so, as I say in the. book, I'm not the person to ask for. marital advice. I'm not pretending to be. that person. The reason I even mention my status is I.

do think, you know, I think obviously if. I'm writing about fatherhood, people are. going to wonder, um you know, what my relationship with. my wife or in this case my ex-wife might. be. And also because I have had a lot of. time, you know, alone with my kids in. the last several years, I think it's. brought some of the stuff up for me. And. And by the way, I don't think that you. should just tell your kids what to do. all the time. I don't think you should. order them around all the time. What I. think is that if you have earned respect.

as a father, um you you will have a relationship with. your kids that's good that can include. them sometimes making fun of you, you. know, like but but all. >> Yeah, definitely. >> they respect you and it's and you can. talk about stuff and you can make. decisions together sometimes. But in the. end, your word goes. You're You know, this is this is an infantry company and. you're the captain. And so, you know, you can get advice from your first. sergeant and and you know, think. [clears throat] about things. But in the.

end, someone has to be responsible and. that someone is the father. >> Yeah, Doug and I. live by these same principles and we. we don't fight often at all, honestly, like. I feel like once a year if that. We just. we don't have a lot of disagreements cuz. we address everything every day with. each other. But we did have one fight. one time that our youngest heard, which. I didn't actually know that he heard. And he cried after. It was so sad. It. was such a good reminder like, "Oh my.

god, never do that." Like make sure if. you're having an argument, your kids are. not there. And I will tell you, I've. been vigilant about that. We don't fight. a lot, but if we ever like if. if Doug ever does anything that even. annoys me in front of the kids, especially if it's about the kids, I. hold my tongue. >> Save that. Save that. >> can get into private to say, you know, like don't do that in front of them or. don't say that in front of them. And. that's just marriage. Of course, you're. going to have little, you know, things. where you're like, "What did you do that. for?" Or "What did you say that for?". But it's they have enough to worry. about. They definitely don't want to. have to worry about mom and dad.

fighting, possibly divorcing cuz that's. where a kid's mind goes every time they. see a fight. And you need to be a united. front about them, too. If they've done. something like and you and your spouse. disagree with. how to handle it, that needs to happen. behind closed doors and not in front of. the child. I agree with you. whole-heartedly. But, to your point. about I'm not airing all of my like. disagreements with my now ex-wife in. this book, unlike strangers by Belle Burden, which. has been on the best-selling list now.

for. All she does is like completely trash. her husband and throw her family under. the bus. >> Yes. Um I think Look, there's a broader. issue about the way again, this cultural. establishment that devalues men and. masculinity. Um I I was thinking about. strangers. I actually wrote something on. my Substack about strangers and about. Imagine. >> Oh, wait a minute. Let me just interrupt. you. Forgive me for the interruption. This is so rude, but I just found out we. only have a one one minute and 20 left. in this hour. We have to take a break. and I want to hear this very badly.

uninterrupted. So, I'm going to take a. quick break. I'm going to come back and. we're going to start on your thoughts on. strangers and then keep going through. the book, which is called The Fatherhood. Manifesto. [music]. Go and get it right now. Alex and Steve. with us. More right after this. Let me tell you something. When you sign. your insurance policy, for some brokers, that's it. They're done. They got their. commission. They like you a lot, but. goodbye. They've got somebody else to. sell to. You may not hear from them. again until it's time for renewal. Your. business runs all year though, and so do.

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and check it out. Wouldn't it be nice to. have a little hand-holding as you go. through this crazy process? Paid for by. Supersure Insurance Agency, LLC, a. licensed insurance agency. We're back now with Alex Berenson. He is. the author of The Fatherhood [music]. Manifesto. This is what it looks like. It's nice and thin, you can read it. quickly, and it's a snappy read with. really good reminders of what's what of. what sane parenting or fathering looks. like. All right, before we took a break,

we were talking about the book. Strangers, which is by Bell Burden. It's. about her divorce and her allegedly. terrible husband and how he left her uh. with no money to pay the bills, even. though we would later find out in the. papers that she's got a trust fund worth. something like 63 million dollars. So, she's not exactly wondering where her. next meal is coming from, but in this. book, I get it, she's pissed. The. husband cheated and left her. It's not. great. Um she completely trashes the. husband who remains the father of her. three children, Alex. >> Yes, and I don't think that's a good.

idea. As we were talking about before, again, the Fatherhood Manifesto is not. the marriage manifesto. I'm not the. person to ask how to have a great. marriage, but I I I did read Strangers. I've read, you know, some divorce books. in the last few years. Obviously, it's. something that's a personal interest to. me. And one thing I will say is that. it's basically impossible for anybody. outside the the two people involved in a. divorce to really know what's happening, to really know what the dynamics are, to. really know uh you You who's at fault.

And often there's no one person at. fault. Both people are at fault. And you. know, there's a narrative I could tell. you about my divorce in which I'm. absolutely the you know, the saint and. the wrong party. And there's a narrative. I could tell you about my divorce where. I'm a really bad guy. And and that's. true I think of most divorces. What's. interesting to me isn't that Bell Burden. isn't trying to get is trying to get. revenge on her husband. That's you know. what? She's she he cheated on her. She's. upset. Um you know, she's trashing the. father of her kids. She shouldn't do.

that, but it's an understandable human. impulse. What's interesting to me is. that culturally as a society once the. Wall Street Journal busted her on what. was essentially uh you know, I won't say. lie, but but lie about how much money. she had and the risk of. exaggeration, fib, uh you know, falsehood about about the. risk of her losing her houses. Houses, right? A $12 million loft in Tribeca and.

a $10 million mansion in Martha's. Vineyard. Once that happened, the the. the feminist culture industry jumped to. her defense and said, "Well, you know, he's a bad guy. He cheated on her. He. didn't want to see the kids." Okay. Let's let's say all that's true. I don't. know it's true. You don't know it's. true. All the people saying it don't. know it's true. >> totally denies the bit about not wanting. to see his children and not taking care. of his kids. He's. >> That's right. He. He hasn't argued about the money stuff. because he doesn't He clearly doesn't.

want to talk that much about that. But. he But he has said that. Okay, let's say. that's true. I want you to realize that. there is an industry now of women's. memoirs, women's divorce memoirs that. essentially say, "Go follow your bliss. Go get divorced. Go hurt your you know, hurt your family if necessary if you are. tired and frustrated with your. marriage." Now, I don't think that's. right. >> Love. >> Eat Pray Eat Pray Love was the first, but there have been many of these books. since then, okay? I When I say it's an.

industry, I'm not exaggerating. And. those women are trashing this guy, uh. you know, Henry Davis is real name, um. you know, in Strangers. Well, what did. Henry Davis do? Essentially, he followed. his bliss. He decided he was going to. have an affair, he was going to leave. his wife. I don't think that's right. I'm not in favor of that. I'm certainly. not in favor of the way he, you know, he. he didn't try to get custody of the. kids. Obviously, I think a father should. be very much a part of their kids'. lives. But he had his own reasons for. that. And this to me is the cultural.

double standard, right? This is why I. had to write the Fathherhood Manifesto. And and you're right, like it's a it's a. pretty short book. A lot of the advice, I think if you're a reasonably good. parent, is not going to strike you as. that out there. I mean, I think there. are a couple things I write that are. actually going to be surprising even to. even to pretty involved parents. But. what's revolutionary, the reason the. reason that this book is revolutionary. is that I had to write it at all. And. that's because, you know, we do, we have New York. magazine, we have an entire like book.

industry now. We you know, and you know, and sort of women's talk shows and stuff. that is devoted really to running men. down and to and to and to running. traditional masculinity down. And it's. stunning to me. And I Then you turn. around and say, "Well, well, you know, Andrew Tate's out there saying terrible. things and encouraging young men to do. terrible things." Yeah, that's you know, that's the boomerang. That's what. happened because for generations, you've. given all this bad advice to, you know,

to to women and you've encouraged them. to, you know, devalue masculinity. >> Yes, I I completely agree. I I don't. like the Bell curve example at all. Like. they Judge Judy used to say, you have to. love your spouse or you you have to love. your children more than you hate your. spouse, >> [laughter]. >> your ex. >> That's right. >> And I think that's exactly right. No. matter how angry you are in your divorce. situation, you've been cheating on it. cheated on all the stuff like you're. hurting your children. The more you. trash your spouse who your children. love,

um the the worse off they are. Now, some. some children are very angry at the the. other spouse, too, cuz he abandons or. he's just a prick or she's awful. The. women can abandon, too. That's a. different story, but in any event, very. good and I I do think there's good. advice in here and like I said, good. reminders. It's just like good. reminders. Like you strike a good. balance in your advice about like, "Look, have fun. You know, you're not. all disciplinarian as a dad, but also. you are a disciplinarian." And and. reminding like simple things, the one. that I highlighted here there there a.

bunch I highlighted, but I love first of. all, play games and second of all, once. your kids are past seven, do not let. them beat you when you are playing said. games. >> That's right. Because and frankly, you. know, I I mean, my my son who's you. know, who as I disclose in the book, dislocated my thumb last year cuz he's. such a good soccer player. That kid's. 10. He's beating me for real, you know, at stuff now. And and you. know, and my daughter my older. daughter's 13. She's very smart. She,

you know, you know, she she can she can beat me. for real at stuff, too. And so, like. they're going to beat you for real. pretty soon anyway. So, you know, do not. do not go easy on them. I really do. think that this idea that like, you. know, kids should you know, you should. you should make sure your kids never. have a bad day. That's not true because. your kids are going to have bad days in. life and they need to be able to deal. with those things and be resilient. And. you know, this idea also, you know, one. of the bits of advice in there is.

really, don't therapize your kids. Don't. send them to therapy. I mean, look, if. if something truly terrible happens. them, which fortunately is rare in the. United States, you know, then maybe they need to go to therapy to. deal with that. But but. >> And check this. Check the therapist out. thoroughly. >> That too, absolutely. But like, you. know, for normal sort of you know what, like I'm depressed, my friends don't. like me, I'm at a new school and things. are tough, like like. at most a school counselor, a decent.

school counselor can deal with that. stuff. And and going to therapy. encourages your child to focus on her. problems in a way that I think is not. productive. And I think I think the fact. that, you know, this is the most. therapized generation we've ever had of. kids and they also have the highest rate. of mental health problems, right? Young. white American not just white, but young. millennial American women have. tremendous rates of depression and. anxiety. And I don't think that's a like.

I think that's essentially a feature and. not a bug of therapy, unfortunately. >> Mhm. The the not letting them lose, I. would couple I mean. they do let them lose past age seven. I. would I would add an addendum, which is. if they if they cry when they lose all. the time, they need to lose more. And you do have to tell them stop. crying. >> That's right. >> You're not allowed to cry because you. lose shoots and ladders. It's just it's. a no. >> That's right. That's right.

>> Even if it's a struggle for them, you. have to insist that they get through it. because you can't have a child who's. crying every time he or she loses. >> You know, this is not a piece of advice. that I endorse, okay? But this was this. was something that my mother told me my. grandmother. said to her, okay? And this is a long. time, you know, this is like in the this. is in the '50s, okay? But she would say. to her, you know, if if I don't break you, the world will, okay? So I don't think you should try to. break your kids, [laughter] but I do.

think you should be aware that the world. may try to break your kids and you have. to toughen them up. And you can't snow. plow for them and solve all their. problems. And and so and you know, one. of the stories I tell you know, this is. near the near the end one of the last. tips is you know, fight your fears and. let your kids do stuff on their own, right? And we've all been trained. Oh, you know what? If you leave your child. for 3 minutes in the mall, you know, they'll disappear and you'll never see. them again. And and you know, that's.

just not true. Okay, I mean they're. unfortunately I again there can be a. lightning strike where one in a trillion. times that happens, but mostly it. doesn't happen. And you've got to you've. got to start trust the world and. encourage your kids to trust the world a. little bit. Now now that doesn't mean. that you know, that that you should you. know, go off for hours without them a. 7-year-old or whatever. >> We're not talking about a 2-year-old. either. >> We're not talking about a 2-year-old. But I say in the book I let my. 6-year-old go to a movie by herself in a.

mall. Now and this and this was even for. me. This was kind of a scary thing to. do, but I knew you know, I knew exactly. where she was. I knew exactly how many. people were in there and I wanted her to. feel like you know what? I can do this. on my own. And she did it and of course, you know, it was actually much more. tense for me than just sitting there. with her would have been, but but she. was fine. And that and and I think she. got something out of that. she got a. little bit of self-reliance out of that. And I think you know, over time you. build that muscle that self-reliance.

that that world you know, the world's a. tough place sometimes, but I can handle. it. That's what you want your kids to. think. And that's and look, some of this. advice is not just for dads, right? This. is obviously is for mothers too. But I. can't tell you even letting my kids. walk, you know, you know, on our very very safe street. in you know, in in Upstate New York. I. hear sometimes from the neighbors or. I've heard from our neighbors. It's It's. crazy to me the amount of.

you know, some of the the ultra low risk. tolerance that modern parents have. You've got it. You've got to fight that. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yes, because the other thing is. so I like I mean you talk about leading. by example. I don't I don't know if. I don't know if like courageous behavior. is passed down exactly. I It's good for. them to see an example of courage, but I. I actually happen to think that like to. become more courageous you just need to. do small courageous acts in your own. life. Your child needs to do small acts. of courage and that'll be the building.

block to the big act of courage when. they need it, but I think [snorts] the. opposite is true. Anxiety and fear are 100% contagious. If. you are riddled with that as a mother or. a father, you are 100% going to pass. that to your child and so like you have. to at least act like you're not. >> [laughter]. >> That's right. >> I see you've got to fake it. >> How many times have you seen that? >> Yes. It's absolutely true. Neurotic. parents get you know, build anxiety in.

their children. You know, this is. another piece of advice and this one I. you know, this one I would go to the mat. for for every parent. And you see this. on the left, okay? Oh, I'm so scared of. climate change and what the world's. going to look like in 50 years or 100. years. Those parents even if they. believe that and you know, there's like. zero evidence that we're anything but. richer than we've ever been as a you. know, as a society and a species. Like. even if they believe that, don't tell. your kids that. Don't tell your. 6-year-old that the world's a terrible. place and it's going to get worse. Don't.

tell your 12-year-old that you know, like you can't have a car because. uh we're all going to you know, die in a. flood one day. Like don't do that. You. are just making your kids neurotic and. frightened. It is terrible advice. It's. and and and you know, and I do you know, and I think again, I don't think as a. dad you should you know, you shouldn't. fight with your your your wife, but this. is something where you should. communicate to your to your spouse. I. don't think we should be doing this to. our kids. Don't do it in earshot of your.

kids, but but make sure, you know, if. you're the man in the house, that that. your that your wife is not doing this. >> This reminds me, I just had my team send. it to me. Um Bill Weir, who's a reporter at CNN, wrote this. letter to his son. Uh hold on, Steve sent me the highlight. To his infant son. about the earth that he will inherit.

>> I know where this is going. This is new. baby [laughter] and. >> Here's a highlight. I'm sorry. I'm sorry we broke this ski the sea and. the sky and shortened the wings of the. nightingale. I'm sorry that the Great Barrier Reef is. no longer great, that we value Amazon. much more than the Amazon, and that the. waterfront neighborhood where you were. growing up could be condemned by rising. seas before you're old enough to apply. for a mortgage. >> My god. [laughter] Shut up and watch the.

Knicks with your kid, okay? Please. Like. I mean, be a man. Just be a man. I I. can't believe I have to say this. Like. And And by the way, as I say in the. Fatherhood Manifesto, I'm like and I'm. embarrassed about this. Like I'm not the. guy who knows how to like, you know, fix. a car engine or do plumbing. Like I I'm. kind of like I'm kind of more useless, much more useless than I would like to. be on that stuff, right? I mean, the. stuff where you just need a muscle and. like a shovel, that I can do. But like. But the actual like actual blue collar.

work, I'm I can't do that and it's. embarrassing to me. But at least I'm not. this guy scaring his infant about the. nightingale. STOP IT. >> [laughter]. >> I REMEMBER DURING COVID, DOUG and I were. still living in our New York apartment. and um. he was talking about how he was having. this existential crisis where he's like, "It's It's just occurred to me that like. if we really became this, you know, fight fight for yourselves society, I. don't know how to do anything. I don't. know how does the air conditioner work?

I have no idea. If I had to like build a. refrigerator and my life depended on I. have no idea how to do it and and I made. a joke that our super to our apartment. was starting to look a lot hotter to. [laughter] me. >> You know, it is embarrassing though and I should. be embarrassed and and you know, I mean. am I going to fix it? You know, I'm. already I'm already you know, a. middle-aged man. I don't know if I can. learn how to do this stuff but talking. to you makes me want to at least like. take a couple basic you know, home.

maintenance courses. >> [laughter]. >> Yes. Oh well, Doug had a his friend had. a great idea which is the guys out there. who know how to do all this stuff should. somebody should open and operate. something called handy camp. and a bunch of guys guys can go for like. a long weekend maybe out in the. wilderness and you guys out there who. know how to do all that very helpful. stuff with your hands can teach the. Alexes and the Dougs of the world how to. do some basic things. >> I would I would pay for that. That would.

be a lot better than like a therapy camp. or like you know, a teach you how to be. a man camp because that's just teaching. how. how to do it without like BS crawling. through mud or whatever like then I'd. come back with some skills. That is a. great idea. Somebody needs to do that. >> Right? I feel like somebody does need to. do that. If you want to just send us an. email to Megan at megan@megankelly.com. if you would like us to help you start. it. We'll be your first customers. We've. got Alex, we've got Doug. I'm sure there's a lot of guys out there. who Steve Crackauer says he'll go. Just.

like the basics and I am so clueless. I. don't even know what the basics are. You. the runners of handy camp will have to. come up with the agenda of what real men. must know how to do with their hands. >> [laughter]. >> Yes. >> You're going to make a fortune. Okay, be positive. You are the most. powerful influence. in your kids' lives. If you are weak and. scared and negative, they will be too. If you are positive and resilient, they. will be too. And then you write, "What I.

do not do is discuss my feelings about. it with them. Their problems are my. problems. The reverse is not true.". >> That's right. >> Thank you. >> That's right. >> Yes. That's what I mean. It's like such. a good reminder. That's exactly right. They're not there to help us with. anything going on in our lives. >> No. And and they're not our best. friends, and they're not, you know, they're not our gossip buddies. They're. children, right? And and again, the the. relationship, you know, it's it's not. quite like a boss to an employee, obviously, you know, like you love your.

kids. You want the best for your kids. You root for your kids, like but but. they are not your equals. A A uh. certainly not A you know as they're as. they're, you know, in their younger. years. And and you can't expect them you. know, it may feel good to vent to them, but it's not good for them, and it's not. good for your relationship. >> Yeah, I agree. And you talk about. we touched on it a bit before, but like. managing your anger with your children.

>> So So, yeah. >> That's an important one. I mean. >> It is, but I think it's And this is. again, I really disagree with the gentle. parent thing. part of this view on this. I think it's. okay to get angry with your kids. And I. think I think it's okay to actually get. quite angry with your kids if there's. circumstances that deserve it. You know, you know, most likely if they've done. something that could harm themselves or. harm another kid, if they've, you know, if they've if they've really behaved. badly, um you know, that that there there's.

things that are over the line. What I. say is it's okay to be angry, and you. want your children to respect you and to. fear your anger. Not to fear you, but to. fear your anger, and not to want to do. things to make you angry. What's not. okay, and I see this with people I know, is to be constantly irritable with your. children. To be sort of have this. low-grade, you're annoying to me, I. don't you know, like I don't like the. way you did X or Y that are routine. things. Because that's a sign that your.

children are behaving, you know, in a. way that that you don't like. And you. have to figure out is that because. I just don't like this and I need to. sort of get over it, or is it because. they're actually doing something wrong. that I need to mold and change. So, irritability to me is is is what you. shouldn't be. But, it's okay to be angry. with your kids. And it's okay to punish. your kids. It's okay to say. And as I also say in this, if you're. going to punish your kid, you shouldn't.

punish them frequently, but you should. punish them in ways that actually matter. to them. So, so and that, you know, that's part of being involved enough to. know what actually matters to your kids, right? So, so the, you know, the. playdate with one kid might not really. matter, but the playdate with another. kid who's you know, who's the best. friend or the one they've really been. looking forward to. If you threaten to. take that away and you do take that. away, that's going to sting them a. little bit. And you want, if you're. going to punish them, you want it to. sting a little bit for them. You don't.

you don't and and and and and if you say. you're going to do something, if you say. if you threaten a punishment if some. behavior continues and it continues, you. have to follow through. And it's not to. hurt them, it's to teach them that. actions do have consequences and that. they can't just kind of shock and jive. their way out of a problem, you know, by. being cute or smiling or crying or. whatever it is. You You told them, "Hey, don't do this." You gave them a warning. They continued it. Now the punishment is. due. That's part of learning, you know,

the. Again, the the world sometimes is just. going to make me do things I don't want. to do. >> I would say um I'm just thinking about. positivity and negativity and yesterday. on the show we had a brief discussion. about Michelle Obama and how everything. she says about Barack Obama is negative. I mean literally. But the truth is. everything she says about her daughters. is negative, too. And it does occur to me as a mother how. damaging that is. You know, you could be a public figure. saying it on TV, very damaging.

Equally damaging is. just being not a public figure and. saying it to them or in within earshot. of them where they only hear negative. messages from you about your feelings. about them. >> Well, I. see I didn't I I guess I don't pay. enough attention to Michelle Obama to. know that she does that. That that seems. so Trust me. So. pointless. Like what is the point of. having children if you're going to run. them down constantly and feel negative.

about them? You should be rooting for. your kids, right? Like you're you are. one team. >> She is rooting for them to get out. >> [laughter]. >> I I mean really you're you're you're one. unit. You're it's you against the world. fundamentally. It's your family is you. know, and and this is something else I. say and I think I even should have said. it more in in in the manifesto is that. is that you know, you're you can have. disagreements internally, but when you. face the world, you face it as a team.

And and that goes for siblings, too, right? Siblings are not to run each. other down. You can and they and they. can fight privately and they you know, they they they're not to bully each. other privately. They can fight, but. when it's time to face the world, you. face it as a team. >> Totally. It's The Godfather. Don't ever. take sides against the family. And it's. just true. That. That's written in blood. You don't side. against your siblings or the family. publicly. That's That's a sin. Um on the subject of sin, this is the.

last one. God, faith. You have very good advice on. this if you believe or if you don't, tell us. >> So, yes. Uh my advice is, if you do. believe, you should definitely, you. know, tell your children that, get them. involved in whatever whatever your. religious tradition is. Um you know, obviously in the United States, there's. not a lot of talk about sort of loss of. community, you know, churches and. synagogues and mosques are all really. good places to find community. Um if you. don't believe, do not start telling your.

kids, especially your young children, uh. I would say your preteen children, that. you're an atheist, okay? Do not Do not. Do not reveal your views on God. And in. general, I don't think you should lie to. your kids. I don't think this is lying. Um I think this is just not. not undercutting their feelings about, you know, little kids, they want to know. about the world, where they came from, all the questions that, you know, bedevil us, uh you know, for our whole. lives, that we don't have We don't have,

you know, answers to. We have faith. about. Do not undercut their faith. Let. them believe in God. Um let them believe. in sort of the as I say the ultimate. father, the you know, the ultimate. creator. And And you know, as they get. older, they'll have reasonable. questions, and you can answer them. But. when they're young, if you're not a. believer, don't tell them that. If you. are a believer, encourage them. >> Yes, I love that. That's excellent. advice as the whole book is. Again, it's. called The Fatherhood Manifesto. It's by.

our pal Alex Berenson, who has been such. a light of a guiding light to us in some. very difficult times. I mean, we were. talking back in 2020, Alex, when we were. at the height of all the craziness. And. there as here, you saw through the. nonsense. >> Well, well, thank you. I mean, and the. manifesto, you know, I people some. people may remember what the COVID book. look booklets look like. It's sort of. the exact same design. It's very simple. It's just meant to be, "Hey, you can. read this quickly, and hopefully you get.

something out of it. Hopefully you get. some kind of truth that the that the. that the legacy media is not giving you. >> Can they get it on Amazon? >> get it on Amazon. You can get it on Kindle. There I I. taped it. I actually think the Audible. is a great you know, it's about an hour. Unfortunately, Audible has not it's. still in the Audible review process. Hopefully by the time this interview. runs, hopefully they're very close to. approving it, but it has not been. approved yet. But yes, you can get it on. Amazon. >> [laughter].

>> All right, so here's my recommendation. Go get the Fatherhood Manifesto by Alex. Berenson. Give it to Dad. It's like not. like you need to do better. It's just. this is kind of a fun thing from a. daughter or a son to a dad or a a spouse. to a dad to a husband. And while you're. there, I'm going to make a pitch for. Doug's book, too. It's called The Lost. Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. And the reason. I'm making this pitch is because Apple. Books just picked my husband Doug Bruns'. book The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. as a best of the year so far book.

Yeah. So Amazon did and now Apple did. He's had a uniformly good reviews. Not. not one negative review. It's doing so. well. So it's called The Lost Empire of. Emmanuel Nobel and it's a great story. It's a thriller. It's about the rise of. this guy named Emmanuel Nobel in Russia. and the rise of this other guy named. Joseph Stalin. And that latter guy is. the reason most people don't know who. that former guy is. >> You're making me want to get this book. >> is the story of both men.

>> You're making me want to get. >> you'll really enjoy it. I think it's. actually a great Father's Day gift. >> All right. Well, Megan, I will since you know, I. will tell my kids they've got to get it. for me. >> [laughter]. >> Yes. Or it can be a gift from you to. you. Anyway, [clears throat] happy Father's. Day in advance, Alex. It's wonderful to. see you. >> Thank you. And you know, I I I can only. say I wish I had the marriage that you. and Doug seem to have. >> Aw, you're so [music] sweet. Thank you. Well, it's my second marriage, so I live. and learn. [laughter]. >> Thanks, Megan.

>> Welcome back to The Megan Kelly Show. So, let's talk about your money for. [music] a minute. With the conflict in. the Middle East, Americans have been. feeling the effect at the gas pump and. in their grocery bills. Gold has been on a wild ride, and we. talk about it a lot on this show just. because we have Birch Gold as one of our. main advertisers. So, who better to talk. to about what role gold should play in. our financial futures and what's. happening in this economic whirlwind. than my next guest? Philip Patrick is a. precious metals specialist with Birch.

Gold Group and a paid spokesman for. Birch Gold, which as I mentioned is also. a sponsor of this show. Philip, welcome. to the program. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Of course. So, I think people are. starting to feel like, you know, maybe a. little better now that it looks like. this conflict is coming to a close, but. that doesn't mean that the economic. hangover is going to end immediately. So, just give us your take on the state. of the economy right now in the wake of. this war potentially wrapping up.

>> Yeah, look, it's unquestionably good. news that the President Trump appears to. have secured a ceasefire framework and. and obviously the reopening of the. Straits of Hormuz, and the markets have. responded exactly as we would have. expected. Oil prices have fallen, stocks. have rallied, and it investors. immediately priced out a significant. amount of the geopolitical risk. However, as you cautiously phrased the. question, we shouldn't confuse a. reduction in risk with the elimination. of risk. I think the agreement has now.

bought us time, but it doesn't yet. eliminate the vulnerabilities. We have. to remember the Strait of Hormuz remains. the most important choke point in the. global economy. 1/5 of the world's oil. and gas still moves through that. corridor. So, I think the lesson over. the last several months is not that the. danger has disappeared, but more that. how quickly inflation fears can return. when a critical energy artery is. threatened like this because energy. isn't just what we pay at the pump, it.

bleeds through into the broader economy. It's food prices, transportation, and. everything else. So, the markets at the. moment are celebrating because the. immediate crisis appears to be easing, and I think that's reasonable, but the. broader question still remains, right? A. foreign policy crisis we now can become. No, can become an energy crisis, which. can fuel inflation, and inflation. obviously obviously puts issue on the. debt problem, which is one of the. biggest issues we have. So, I think the. deal has turned the temperature down for.

now, but it hasn't changed the. underlying vulnerabilities. >> Yeah, the inflation is up. It's creeping. up monthly now. The latest was May. inflation rose to 4.2% year-over-year. That's the highest level in 3 years. And. it doesn't seem to me that the. inflationary numbers turn on a dime. It's more like an aircraft carrier. Once. it creeps up, it's very hard to get back. down. They still hadn't received the. price relief at the grocery store from.

the Biden 9% inflation rate, and now. here we are back at 4.4 or 4.2. So, how. does that like. How does that affect people? How long. does that affect people? >> It It's going to be tough to work out. You're absolutely right. Inflation. becomes entrenched. When prices go up, they don't come down. The only thing. that really brings it down. >> They don't. >> It's deflationary periods. I think the. last time we saw one was in 2008, lasted. a couple of weeks. So, once prices are. set in, they're set in, and and that's. the big problem, and that's why the.

economy looks so different to how it. feels. We look at the headline numbers. GDP looks strong. You know, a lot of the. >> [clears throat]. >> positives are there, yet our lived. experience just doesn't match, and I. think broadly it's because wage. inflation isn't keeping up with real. inflation, and I think it's going to be. a lot of work until they can iron that. out. We have to see as long as we're. carrying as much debt and printing as. much money as we are, I think. inflation's going to be a persistent. problem.

>> So, gold is always out there as an. option, and it depend like people buy it. for different reasons. I'll tell you. like the one that makes me feel best. about gold is I don't know what's going. to happen with our economy. I don't know. whether our money is going to be worth. anything in 20 years. Like I worry that. like. something's going to happen in the. financial system where like all these. savings are going to be kind of wiped. out by our our government, by a foreign. government, by some massive change in.

the economy, and that's the appeal to me. of gold is like you got gold, you got. gold bars, they can't wipe that out. >> It It's so funny. If you talked to me 15. years ago, I I would have 20 years ago, I I I thought gold was becoming a relic, and I think the current climate has been. a reminder to me of how important it is. You're correct. Like the argument for. gold is it keeps pace with inflation, and it has an inverse relationship with. the dollar. You could go back to. biblical times, and an ounce of gold.

would buy 400 loaves of bread. It. basically does the same thing today. The. biggest issue for me and. you know, definitely not a a. fear-monger. I think we have real. issues, but I think you touched on one. of them. It It's It's the money supply. At the end of the day, we have 39. trillion dollars of debt. The interest. payments alone on the debt are the. second biggest expense for the federal. government now after social security. We. have a 2 trillion dollar annual deficit, and we're printing money to meet that.

And ultimately, at least in the context. of all of history up until today, that. looks like long-term devaluation of. currency, and that's where gold comes. in, right? When currency weakens, you. need more weaker currency to buy gold, and I think it's why central banks have. set records for gold buying consistently. since '22. They see we have arguably an. unsolvable problem when it comes to debt. and deficit, and gold is a very good. hedge against that.

>> Mhm. And so, how is gold doing now like. versus where it was a year ago? >> It's up. Listen, gold has been volatile, which historically it isn't, but we saw. an incredible year last year. Gold went. up 70%, silver went up 150. They started. the year almost like a meme stock. Like, I think in the first 2 weeks of this. year, silver was up 50%, gold was up. about 20. We saw them come down from the. highs. Gold peaked at about 5,500. We're.

running in the low $4,000 range. So, there's been a dip in pricing, but it's. one that wasn't unexpected after. significant growth, and I think the Iran. war really meet made people stop and. think. We saw big movements to cash. shorter term. That strengthened the. dollar, and of course, it dipped gold. prices. But, for me, what I look at is. the longer term fundamentals. And. as I alluded to earlier, unless we can. get a handle on deficit spending. and debt, gold is going to continue to.

go up longer term because if we can't. handle that, >> have like. Do you have an estimate on, you know, somebody comes to you and says, "I want. to I want to get into gold." Like the. people who get really into it, what. percentage of their investment portfolio. is typically gold? >> It's so difficult because everybody's. comfort level is is very different. We. always recommend to be very clear, diversification. You know, the idea is. never to put all of your eggs in any one. basket. As much as we know we think we know.

where things are heading, there's a lot. of unknowns on the horizon. So, I think. diversification is key. What that means. to an individual really varies. Like I'm. seeing some people who have lost faith, right? They have major concerns and are. losing. moving larger portions of their. retirement into gold. And there are. other clients who are just putting. smaller percentages just in case, right? So, it really is. a very much an individual thing. What I. would say to people is what you want to.

achieve with a hedge is one side of your. portfolio goes down, the other that. grows and mitigates. So, you want to. have, you know, something significant. enough to do something elsewhere if that. makes sense. >> What do people do if they don't have. like a secure place to store it? You. know, we talk about when we advertise. for Birch Gold, if you want to convert. an IRA in whole or in part, you can do. it to to gold. But like, does that then. does somebody ship all that gold to your. house? >> [laughter]. >> Like what What if you don't have a safe.

place? >> It's a great question. First of all, I've heard some crazy stories over the. years. So, people store it in all kinds. of places. But, when it comes to an IRA, to be very clear, an IRA is a. tax-deferred vehicle. So, if we were to. ship that gold to an individual, it. would be the equivalent of pulling money. out of an IRA, and it would be a taxable. event. So, actually, the IRA process. requires the metals to be held in a. third-party Brinks facility. Metals are. held there fully insured at all times.

And the customer has access to them. physically on distribution if they wish, or they can never see them, sell them in. the IRA, and just take take cash out. So, IRAs require third-party storage. When it comes to individuals and cash. purchases, you know, some people have a. safe at home. It's bolted down. It's. secure. Others use a Brinks vault. So, it really is personal preference. For. me, I have mine in a Brinks vault. I. live in Los Angeles, so you know. uh.

>> Yeah. I I someone I used to know was. burying his gold in the yard. I'm like, "Okay." I mean, like you're putting a lot in the in the. faith of the local German Shepherds. I. like I'd be very worried somebody would. go on a digging excursion and it would. be gone, but that that it's also an. option, let's say. >> It's also I've heard it many times. Uh. so, yeah, you'd be surprised some of the. places. >> Well, thank you so much for your support. of the show and for the gold, too, because honestly, I think a lot of our.

viewers really love this product. That. goes all the way back to my time at Fox. I get it, you know, I think Republicans. in general, conservatives in general, are a little bit more skeptical of. putting all this money in the hands of. the government or the stock market and. just letting the very, very good, honest. people there manage it. So, hedging. sounds attractive in any event. Uh thank. you, Philip. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, all the best. We'll talk soon. It's an interesting prospect, right? I. don't know. Would Would you How much of. your portfolio would you put in gold?

Send me a note and let me know. I'd be. curious to know. Like, would you just. like a like 1%? Would you go as high as. 10? Would you go higher than that? With. 30% of your portfolio? Like, there is. something comforting about being able to. touch it, hold it, right? Like, as long. as you can keep it secure and not just. keep it in the funny money category. where who knows, you know, the the AI. takes over the computers and suddenly. everything's vanished. I worry about.

that stuff. In any event, let me know. It's megan@megynkelly.com. So, tomorrow on the show, we have. something we've been working on for you. for a while. It is an interview. with attempted Ronald Reagan assassin. John Hinckley Jr. You're not going to believe this, okay? You're not going to believe it, but I. hope you tune into it. I hope you enjoy. it and I hope you let us know how you. feel about it. Megan at megynkelly.com.

if you wish to opine, as our pal Bill. O'Reilly used to say, and um. also have a great weekend, and have a. great [music] great Father's Day. We'll. see you soon.