Remembering Charlie Kirk, Trump's Midterm Message, and How AI Could Destroy Humanity, w/ Jacob Coxon

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show. Today, as you. probably all know, marks one year since. the conservative movement, America, and the world lost Charlie. Kirk. A year ago at this hour, we had no. idea that we were just moments away from. the unthinkable. And whenever you hit a. moment like this, a one-year marker in. time or five year, what have you, you. can't help but start thinking, what if we could go back and have a. doover? Like what if we could just reach.

Charlie right now and say, "Don't go to. Utah Valley University. Don't go out. there. Don't Don't It's not safe for you. today. Don't do it. Do something else. Stay at home with Erica and the kids.". Um, of course, that's not the way life. works. We all know that. And I have a. bunch of thoughts that. I want to share with you uh in just a. bit. We have a a tribute to Charlie that. we're going to play just a bit later. this hour. Uh we also have the first. long- form interview today in our second.

hour with the AI researcher who has made. such a splash this week coming out and. stating publicly that he believes AI. might very well kill us all by the. decad's end. Okay, now we're turning to. 2027 in January. So we possibly have. three years to live. if if that long. I mean, this is like I. know it's massive doomerism. and I'm going to push back on him, but. we should hear him out, shouldn't we?

Like, shouldn't we. hear the case made about what is. happening on the inside of these massive. AI companies? He started at with Open AI. and then he went to Anthropic, which is. supposed to be the more responsible one. And he has some bad news for us about. both of them. So. what we don't want is for whistleblowers. like this guy to jump up and down when. there is still time to do something. different and to ignore them and to just.

go down a road toward destruction. without at least some intelligent. reflection by humans on whether this is. a choice we want to make. And if this. guy is wrong or agenda driven then let's. know that too. But the answer is. definitely not to ignore these guys who. they're growing in number are coming out. one after the other from these AI. companies trying to tell us. that that danger is a foot and not small.

danger but true existential end times. danger. So there's a headline for you. Don't. miss a moment. Subscribe to this show on. YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook. and X. Think about the last time you. called a business and no one picked up. What did you do? You called the next one. on the list. Customers do the exact same. thing when they are reaching out to you. Which is why I want to tell you about. Quo, spelled Quo. It's the business.

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First, let's cover some news of the day. All right. President Trump is down in. Dallas uh doing the headline tour of the. midterm convention thing they're having. down there, which is a madeup event, but. it makes sense. It's made up and it. makes sense um because they're trying to. rally support for the Republican party. in advance of these midterms. And it's. not too late to potentially change some.

outcomes even while the Democrats are. now leading in a couple of these key. races or you know got they've made it a. lot tighter but like actually are ahead. Leans Dem is where Cook polling is going. on most of these swing state Senate. races. It can it can be turned in in very few. states are they more than like one point. ahead of the Republican. This thing's. going to be a nailbiter. By the way, I. hope you'll join us for our our live. coverage for the midterms because we'll. have everybody you need to hear from.

Um, it's going to be a nailbiter. So, they should do this. You know, I don't. know how much attention it's received in. the media, but it's good that President. Trump got down there last night. And. man, he was riled up and he's going to. be the final keynote speaker tonight. JD. Vance is going to speak, which will be. great. And then the president speaks. very smart. We nobody generates. headlines like President Trump. He was. extremely animated. He he had serious. energy which was great. You know, he was.

unlike his predecessor. He was not. projecting oxygenarian at all. Um here's. just a little bit of the shots he was. taking against the left wing and in. particular their recent embrace of. communism. Sat one. In this election, the Democrats have nominated the most. extreme and dangerous group of. candidates for the House and Senate ever. to seek office. These people are radical. left communists. But America has beaten. communism before, and we will beat it.

again. We've beaten it before. But these. are people who do not care if your. country is invaded by illegal. immigrants. If your home is burglarized, if your parks and city streets are. turned to filth and squalor and death, if your loved ones are pushed in front. of a subway train in New York City or. stabbed in the middle of a field in any. state you want to pick, they don't care. because they hate our country. And they. are Democrats and they're very, very.

wrong. On election night, we're going to. prove that America does not belong to. those who hate it. America belongs to. those who love it. But we're not going. to let the communism happen. Not here. Not in America. Not in our 250th year. When I'm on the ticket, Republicans. always do very well. We won the. presidency three times. But for some. reason, when a president wins, even if.

he's really a good president or a great. president, there aren't too many of. them, they don't win the midterms, and. nobody quite knows why. It's something. deep down and psychological. We can't. let that string be broken. So, I'M. ASKING YOU TO PRETEND THAT I'M ON THE. BALLOT. I'm on the ballot. I'm under. just one more time because if we lose, you're going to lose your border. You're. going to lose your tax cuts. You're.

going to lose your safety and security. >> I'm sorry, but there's just no better. spokesperson for any party alive today. I mean, he. he is. he has pizzazz. He has spice. He has a. way about him that commands the stage. and attention. And if you are a. politician looking for attention on your. race, i.e. money andor votes, you could.

do no better. This is what you want. You. know, Trump, love him or hate him, he. has the it factor. You can't deny it. And um it's great that he's going down. there. And you know, let's face it, I. think Trump misses campaigning. He loved the rallies. You know, part of. this is for the GOP and part of it is. for the man himself who loves loves. loves loves performing and it's one of. the reasons that he got elected is. because he's such a natural at it. He's. had a lifetime of practice at it. Attention is his oxygen. His critics say.

that same thing. It's not necessarily a. bad thing, is it? Why is it bad to want. attention if you have something to say. that's important? So, he was on brand and on fire last. night, letting the left have it in a way. that he hopes will drive down their. numbers and drive up the Republican. numbers. But he knows the biggest. challenge is that he's not on the. ballot. And the Republicans have not. fared as well since Trump came on the. political scene down the golden. escalator all those years ago. You know,

now it's 11 going on 12. Um, Republicans. have not done as well without Trump on. the ballot. He has been the one who made. the low propensity voters get off of the. couch and go vote. So, he's been trying. out this line and he tried it out again. last night. I do have my doubts about. whether it will work, but let's see. Uh, here he is inside. Is it uh. Yeah, three. Wait, is it three? Well,

let's watch it. Yeah. Democrats have. nominated James Talco for the Senate. Talofo authored a plan to annihilate. Texas oil and gas. That's good. I'm. working my ass off to get you oil and. gas and I got a guy that wants to end. it. Would Texas be willing to end all. oil and gas drilling? >> And he stated that he wants to totally. dismantle capitalism. Dismantle quote.

capitalism. He described himself as a. person who hates Christianity, says that. God is transgender. He called the. American flag a complicated symbol of. hate, claimed that the Ten Commandments. are a form of fascism. And when he was. asked what he loved most in the world, he said, "I love transgender children.". So getting back, freedomloving patriots. of Texas are going to defeat Telerico. and elect Ken Paxton to protect the Lone.

Star. >> That actually should work. I was. referring to the the piece apparently. was in the previous sound by somebody. was in my ear talking where he said, "Pretend I'm on the ballot." I don't. know whether that's going to work. I'm. not sure because people know you can't. pretend. The whole the whole notion of. getting you off the ballot is like off. the couch to the ballot box is I want to. make sure he wins. You you know his. fortunes like President Trump's personal. political fortunes are not exactly on.

the ballot in October. Though you know. he's saying a bunch of things will be. stymied if he loses the GOP, the House. andor the Senate. And that is absolutely. true. I mean, we are in for. investigation drama for the next two. years if the Republicans lose either. body. I mean, they're they're almost. certain to lose the House. And now it's. looking very scary in the Senate. But. the the president's right that this. would not be great for the rest of his. presidency. It would effectively render.

him a lame duck. Uh so in that way, it. is a legitimate thing to say pretend I'm. on the ballot. As for what's happening. in Texas, good for him promoting Ken. Paxton. This new nickname for James Tala. Rico. James Talico. I like it. I have to. say James Talafrico is now out there. trying to be a more moderate person. He's actually trying to suggest that. he's now going to be moderate on the. trans issue. Um he came out and said to.

NBC Houston local that now he opposes. these gender confused athletes in girls. sports. Listen here. >> And what about biological men competing. in women's sports? That's a big deal. here in Texas. >> That's right. And I oppose trans. athletes playing in girls sports if it. endangers safety or fairness. Uh every. sport has to be safe and fair. As a. former public school teacher, I care a. lot about our student athletes. I care a.

lot about our students and and so I will. oppose trans athletes playing in girls. sports if it uh risks safety or. fairness. >> Sure. I mean, there is zero chance that. that's true. That's there's just zero. chance that he is going to live up to. that. This guy has been all over the map. on these issues and now he's trying to. run to the right so that he can win this. race. But there is zero chance he's. going to vote as Texans want him to on.

the issue of boys and girls sports. As a. state representative, he voted against. Republican restrictions barring these. gender confused student athletes from. playing on sports teams that don't, you. know, that that are of the opposite. biological sex. He said such proposals. amounted to a push for the government to. quote police people's private parts and. would harm quote the least of these a. reference to Jesus's remarks. Um he. compared the justifications offered for. the bans that trans athletes gender.

confused I'm exercising my own rule. I'm. done with the term trans had a genetic. advantage uh and excluding them would. promote safety. All of which is true. But he he compared those justifications. to ration historically used to bar black. athletes from competing. Did they say. that black athletes would endanger. people? Like half the population on. Earth just by competing. I must have. missed that chapter of the Jim Crow uh.

history, but whatever. Um so James. Terico found himself within the. president's crosshairs. And it is very. funny to hear Trump continually talk. about how Paxton is not that. good-looking, but you have to vote for. him anyway. Poor Ken Paxton. The president kept. saying like, "Oh, they say to me, sir, sir, don't don't say that.". But but he says it he says it anyway.

Here's some of it in Six. Some may not like. the way he dresses. I don't. And then. they say, "You can't say this, sir. That's so insulting. Please, sir." These. are my analysts that get a lot of money. for telling me a lot of nonsense. He may not dress right. He may not talk. exactly perfectly, and he may not be the. best looking guy I've ever seen, but you. know what he is? He's the greatest. attorney general in America. and he.

deserves. to be your next senator. I'm sorry, Ken. Where the hell is he? I'm so sorry. He'll never speak to me. again, but that's okay. >> Okay, let me tell you why that's so. brilliant. First of all, it's it's. forgive me, but it's true. Like, Ken. Paxton is really not that good-looking. Sorry. And so Trump is trying to take.

away that disadvantage that he has. electorally because people like to vote. for good-looking people. People like to. elevate good-looking people to the tops. of their corporations. Um people look at. good-looking people in a circle when. they're talking versus like there have. been studies on all of this. So Trump. knows that Paxton not being the greatest. looker is not an advantage for Paxton. and he's trying to eliminate that as a. problem for a guy he wants to see win.

It's it's clever. It is well thought. out. It's not just because Trump is. obsessed with looks, which he definitely. is. I I can relate. I I talk about. people's looks a lot. It's not a nice. thing, but we are who we are. Um and. secondly, it's just so honest and funny. you know, it it gets gener generates. some buzz. People put it on the air like. I just did and suddenly we're talking. about Ken Paxton, Ken Paxton, Ken. Paxton. That's good. That's what the. president wants. Um attention on this. guy, publicity around this guy. And.

indeed, he got it. So, we'll see how Ken. Paxton fares. And also just like calling. attention to the fact that the president. backs him. So, James Tarico is ahead. right now according to the latest polls. in this race. But Paxton is completely. not out of it. It's Texas after all. And. so, the president's just showing. everybody the more you run that clip, the more you say the president likes. Paxton. I I like the president. I can. trust Paxton. You know, that's how the. logic tree goes. And he's banking on.

people walking away with that takeaway. He's probably right that they that they. will. Um, we can't leave the convention. without spending a moment on Brandon. Gil, our favorite congressman. He is from Texas. He is brilliant. He. happens to be the son-in-law of Desh. Duza, which is just such a fun fact. And. he's the one who's constantly. effectively grilling people in Congress. with these great cross-examinations. This guy's going to be he could be. president one day. I I'm going to say.

it. He's probably going to be the. president one day. He's that smart and. interesting and effective. And here he. is um doing, you may be surprised to. hear this deep red Republican. congressman doing a land acknowledgement. uh at the GOP convention. Take a listen. >> Only appropriate that we kick this. convention off properly. with a land acknowledgement.

I'd like to acknowledge. that we stand here today. and the great state of Texas and the. United States of America, the ancestral homeland. of great American patriots, pioneers, and explorers who put down roots, fought. for freedom all over the globe, and bled. and died to build the greatest. civilization ever known to man.

My friends, we live in the finest. country in the history of the world and. we're no longer going to apologize for. that. That is how it's done. Well done, Congressman Gil. Back in the Trump. Terico thing and Ken Paxton, I do want. to say this. Lots of people pretend to. be outraged that President Trump would. talk about somebody's looks, whether.

it's Paxton or anybody else. Um, what. you won't hear as much outrage on from. these leftists who pick apart Trump's. every word, is the fact that Taller. Rico, uh, his pastor, the pastor at his. church, uh, is a rather controversial. figure, as it turns out. And this bit of. um tape has emerged of Reverend Babs. Miller describing the congregation. talleros in the congregation and their.

thoughts about President Trump. Listen. here 11. >> If you pled our membership. and ask them whether they were. Christian, agnostic, or atheist, the. vast majority would say agnostic or. atheist. We still have people in this. church that wish that that young man had. not just nicked his ear, but been more. successful. >> Great. Which What specific people? Uh. would love to know more. Um wonder.

whether Talerico is familiar with any of. them because I've got the feeling this. whole church situation is going to turn. into a Reverend Dight situation for him. It it looks like there are many more. quotes from this woman that I'm sure Ken. Paxton's team is just boiling right now. and uh as soon as they're hardboiled. they're going to hit because this woman. seems rather controversial and the whole. church seems fairly radical. So this is.

going to be a Torico problem going. forward. A lot of this stuff as you know. they hold until you get closer to the. election so it stays in the. consciousness of the voters as they get. ready to make their final decisions. So, put a pin in this. We could be back to. Babs and Terrigo's church in no time at. all. Um, speaking as I was a minute ago. about Jim Crow history, I you would not. know that we weren't right there if you. were to watch the opening game of the. NFL last night. Now, I don't know.

anything about football, but I know it. was the Seahawks versus the Patriots. And I know that yet again they've. decided that we need two anthems to be. played to kick off the game. The. national anthem. The and then the black. national anthem. As if blacks and whites. and Asians, etc. don't all fall under. the same banner of American. This is an. insult. They people don't realize it,

but it is an insult to black people as. well as to all other races. We're all. the same. The blacks don't need a. special anthem, and they don't need. anything underscoring differences. between us. We've tried to get past. that, you absolute morons. They're included in the national anthem. So are the whites. So is So is. everybody. They do not need this. nonsense. Here with the Moango sisters.

sat 12. on till victory. is one. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sure they're lovely. singers and lovely people. Wrong place. Wrong time. Just stop. It's bad enough. that the NFL has gone full rainbow with.

the weird obviously gay cheerleaders all. over our timelines. Have you seen them. from, you know, the the the Cowboys, the. the Patriots? I mean, the the Yeah. the. Eagles, my husband's team, like. flamboyantly gay male cheerleaders and. not the normal ones who wear like a male. cheerleading uniform with like the pants. and like they lift up the girls and they. do the acrobatics and they're basically. gymnasts. I mean, obviously extremely. gay, flamboyant, over the top with the.

hip swizzle and whatever. Who is it for? Every man I know has asked this. Who is. that for? gay men watching the NFL. I mean, I think that they would like to. watch the football players. If they're. looking to be like turned on, they have. plenty of options out there. Some of the. best looking, fittest, strongest, most. interesting men in the country are right. there on the grid iron. Okay. Secondly,

straight men don't want to see that. Um, and most of the gay men I know would. actually rather look at these stunning. female cheerleaders. Name me a gay man who doesn't love to. befriend and talk fashion with and be. friends with just hang out with and. admire a stunning woman. Like I don't. know that gay man. I I think they're. generally very appreciative of female. beauty. And if they if you are trying to.

offer this to them something to like. turn them on, you already have that. I. don't get it. Who is it for? We don't need that at the NFL. Okay. We've had to put up with Taylor Swift. I. mean, I take it in through osmosis, my. family watch. Had to put up with Taylor. Swift for the past several years. dominating the the skybox and every. single um Chiefs game was dominated by. her instead of the actual players. You. got to deal with the black national. anthem. And for the past five plus. years, we've had to deal with a bunch of.

messages in the end zone that are. totally meaningless, trying to pretend. like we are still back in Jim Crow. And. now we got to deal with this, too. Like. flamboyantly. gay. Like over the top. Uh it's too. much. Moving on. A juror in the Lindsay Clancy case is. speaking out. Another one. Unlike the. first three, this is a dude. Well, first.

four yesterday, right? Because we had. one who spoke to CBS and three who spoke. to a local. Um but now we've got a guy. coming out and um weighing in. His name. is Nick Dargle and he spoke with ABC on. Thursday. Man, they hate the hold out. juror. They hate this guy's guts. Listen. to 14. take me inside the deliberation. room. >> There was times where, you know, our. vote was different than the last day.

Um, but I think ultimately once we laid. out all of the evidence. um, and how we saw it, that really. brought everyone kind of on the same. page except for this one juror. There. was several times I would ask him to. show us like evidence or, you know, describe a witness testimony that helped. to prove what he was saying and and he. couldn't, which is why we ultimately. sent in that. Now, otherwise, like.

there's nothing wrong with somebody. having a completely opposite opinion. Like that's, you know, that would be a. hung jury that like that is our justice. system. but he wouldn't engage or. couldn't find something to support his. view. >> There was times he wouldn't engage, like. he'd be scrolling on his phone while. people are talking to him, you know, things like that. >> Okay, that this is so unfair. They they. were in there for days. I'm sure there.

were times where he was scrolling his. phone like the judge kept sending them. back in there trying to get them to. reach a verdict and they didn't have. anything more to say to one another. They had reached an impass. It happens. It's not ideal, but whatever. AC like. who among us with all that time and. across from those nightmare women. wouldn't rather be on our phone from. time to time. I would have been sending. out SOS's. Help. Help. Somebody come get. me. Like Jesse Kelly, he could get it.

done. Jesse, come get me. You have no. idea what I'm across from. So this is. absurd. They're all so miffed. They. couldn't get this guy to bend to their. will. Well, TFB. Here's a little bit more a little bit. more in 15. RG told us one time he. confronted the hold out after the man. picked up what Clancy used to strangle. her kids. He took the exercise band out. of the bag, grabbed an empty water.

bottle and and tied the band around the. water bottle and pulled it. Did he. explain why he did that? >> No. Um, he might have. I'm I'm not. entirely I think I was just so shocked. that he did that. likes. >> Is that a mimic of how. she killed the children? >> Yeah, I I assume so. Yeah. >> What' you think when he did that? >> I was shocked. It didn't make any sense. to me. Like, we're not in here to play. detective or it's not a game of clue.

Like, this is serious. I asked him why. why was why why are you doing that? >> That's a band that was used to strangle. a child. >> It's disgusting. Oh, I love that we are now all about the. children and honoring the ch. You. voted to send their killer to a. mental institution where she could be. out in a year. This man, of whom you are. so critical, was the only one who. stopped that from happening. He wanted. her to go behind bars. So, let's not try.

to claim the moral high ground on who. was most protective of the children. This is ridiculous. Nick Dargy. I said Dargle. It's Dargy. I mean, that's like the pylon on this guy over. these soft little hurt feelings other. jurors is absurd. I don't know why this. juror did that. I don't know what that. was about. I'd love to hear his side of. the story because to me sounds like the. only reasonable person on the jury. Um,

but don't for a minute let jurors like. that try to claim the moral high ground. when it comes to looking out for the. dignity and memory of the children, please. Uh, okay, moving on. A couple of other. stories we've got to hit. It is almost. Halloween season. I mean, I'm sorry. I. was just saying to the kids, it's. September 10th and you know, this time. next month, we'll be putting out the. Halloween displays. So, everybody's. thinking about it. And it turns out that. as always they put out or revive.

Halloween type movies this time of year. And that is happening with the film. Practical Magic 2. A Practical Magic 1. was a success. It starred Sandra Bulock. and Nicole Kidman. And they are trying. to promote their second act together in. this movie. Sandra Bullock is now 63. Nicole Kidman is 59. They look amazing. They have a very weird dynamic. I have. to tell you, if you watch this Today. Show interview with Hoda Cottby, who.

trust me, she quit so she could be with. her children. She didn't she didn't want. to work anymore. She wants to just raise. those two kids that she adopted 10 years. ago. Trust me, that's what she wants. Oh. Oh, she's back. She's back again. Let's face it, she never left. She got. into a snit because they wouldn't give. her a raise. In fact, the reports were. that they wanted to lower her salary. because the Today Show is a fraction of. its former self and it pulls in I mean a. minuscule amount of viewers compared to. where where it was back when I was at.

Fox and um she decided to in my view. sort of play the huh well then I'm out. of here guard and they were like okay. and now she's been begging ever since to. get back on. So, here those two are. sitting down with Hodka Cottby for an. interview that aired on today, but we'll. also be on her Making Sense podcast. Yet. another thing she's doing with her. children. Oh, wait, no, no, they're not. involved in that. Um, and you've got to. hear. So, Sandra Bulock, she's had her. fair share of tragedy. All right. Her.

husband died. She's got, I think, three. children, two or three, but they're all. adopted. And you will glean from this. clip that they are black. Watch this. saut 20. >> I mean, you know, we're different. This. I'm uber paranoid. And they will tell. you. I'm like, they're like, "Mom, it's. going to be fine." I'm like, "It's not. fine. It's not fine outside." The energy. that is floating around our our country. in our world again. The color of their. skin, they're my babies. They're my.

life, but no one knows that when they. leave my house. So that is always. >> in the in the forefront of my mind. You. know, I'm I I'm now learning to trust. them. Where they are now is. extraordinary. >> Okay. Once again, I bet she loved the. black national anthem. Like I she pulled. her skin and said this this I'm uber. paranoid. And they will tell you. They're like, "Mom, it's going to be. fine." I'm like, "It's not fine. It's.

not fine outside because of this." and. she pinches the skin because it's open. season on black children in America. She. wants you to believe just like LeBron. James said uh postcoid that black men. are being hunted in the streets of. America post George Floyd that they're. being hunted in the streets of America. He is a lowinformation voter obviously. who has bought the lies about police, the false narrative that has bismerched.

them, defamed them, and gotten black. Americans killed. Thousands of them. Thousands killed. because of fake narratives about the. police that caused the police to pull. back, especially in underserved. communities. Minorities wind up dying. lowincome minorities in particular wind. up dying because crime is unleashed on. them by effectively woke white liberals. like Sandra Bulock who pushes false.

narratives that make her feel better. about herself. She's going to score. points with Hoda, but she doesn't give a. what happens to the people in. Harlem or downtown Chicago. And trust me. when I tell you her children are not in. danger. Would you like to see Deb, can. you send me the information about her. homes again? We pulled it yesterday, but. we didn't get to this. This woman has. got multiple homes that are. multi-million dollar estates. Look at. this. Look. Does your dining room look. like this? Look at this. Where is this,

Steve? Santa Fe. Where is it? Oh, this is New York City. Do you know. how much money it would take to have a. living room and a dining room like the. ones we are showing you in New York. City? I mean, you're talking maybe $70. million potentially if you're really. lucky. Like, you got it years ago. Maybe. 10. I don't like if you're really lucky, you have $10 million. If if you have. this kind of money, please stop trying. Look, look at this. Look at this home. It's spectacular. And there are there. are many of them. Okay, listen to this.

homes she owns. New York City historic. townhouse, 19th century. Um, now she. paid 3.35 million for it and it's 4,100. square ft, but I guarantee you that. thing is worth well over 15 million now. historic New Orleans property. She It's. an 1876 Gothic Victorian mansion in New. Orleans. She bought it in June of09 for. 2.24 million. Uh it's known as the. Coke Maze House, the Swiss Chalet House.

And uh something else, the 6 or the. 66,000. square foot pad is respplendant with. period details like intricate iron work. and heavy gilded interiors. There are a. total of five bedrooms and four and a. half bathrooms. So, by the way, the the. places that we know she owns homes, and. I'm sure it could have be others. Uh, New Orleans and New York are heavily. black. There's a much higher population. of black people and people of color in. general in both of those places. So, why.

is she pretending that like she lives in. the Jim Crow South? These are like. fantasies of hers that have no basis in. reality. Shame on her. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email. me, too. Meganme. kelly.com or just leave a comment down. below. I do read them. I meander over.

and I scroll through and I find them. very entertaining and really appreciate. the feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So, thanks. And thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. You might already own a. firearm, but what if you could start. with less lethal methods to avoid the.

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going to love it. That's by RNA.com. Let me just say this. President Trump. paid homage to Charlie Kirk last night. and I was grateful that he did it. I. think too many people on the left, the. the rabbid ones are celebrating this. quote Kirkversary in the most vile of. ways. But I know the vast majority of. people out there are feeling and loving. and kind and mourning. Charlie's death, while incredibly tragic.

for us all, has unleashed a torrent of. goodness, at just the right time because. evil is alive in the world today. And. we've seen it. the revival we've seen in. churches across denominations, but. obviously Christianity has seen a spike. in interest and adherence that we. haven't seen in decades thanks to. Charlie and his message being circulated. and people grappling with the loss of. such a hero. We've all missed him so desperately.

every day since he was gone. And on our. team, we've been putting together a bit. about him. We put it at our YouTube. channel in full. It's under the. membersonly um button. Here's a clip. Watch.

It's up to all of us to continue. Charlie's legacy of spreading the good. word. To say the things, to say them no. matter how many people object to them, arguing our points respectfully and. lovingly, but forcefully and. unapologetically. >> Here we go. Let's do it. >> I was like, "We have to go." And then. after what happened to Charlie, I'm. like, "We definitely have to go. We have. to keep talking. We have to show people. that they can't count. >> You are doing the work to save this. beautiful republic. You are doing.

something that is bigger than you. >> Charlie Kirk will be remembered for. decades to come. And we are not going to. ever let them forget the name of Charlie. Kirk. >> We as Christians are called to go into. the public arena to correct error with. truth. and he shows that you don't have. to go to college to show how uneducated. a lot of people in college are. >> What is Kla Harris's greatest. accomplishment? >> I'm not sure. I guess there's nothing.

I'm stumped. >> I'm going to make make you guys wait on. this. >> I'm not going to condemn you if we. disagree. >> I think disagreement is what makes life. fun. >> Best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to. be unafraid. There was no not doing this. tour. Let me tell you something. It took guts for every single one of you. and everyone who has shown up to all of. the tour stops to do it. It's not just a. matter of me putting myself on this.

stage. It's a matter of you guys getting. out there. You understand the. environment we're in. Just to declare. yourself a conservative in this. environment is actually an act of. courage. It's nice drama right there. She's given. an interview before, but this is live. This is in front of thousands of people. I know you don't ever feel angry against. God, but I kind of do. >> The enemy would love for me to be angry. >> He would love it. >> This one really is for Charlie.

>> This is not just a flash in the pan. movement. We're going to become an. institution. >> Charlie Kirk, you're going to be hearing. that name if you haven't. It is this. young man who is trying to get young. people to just be more politically and. economically aware. >> When I graduate high school in June, I'm. going to be handed a diploma. That's. also an invoice for over $800,000. >> I don't want to jinx him, but I'm just. going to tell you this is the kind of. guy, you know, you can see really.

becoming big in politics as he gets. older. He just has the carriage, the. personality, the charisma. >> They have Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. and Bernie Sanders. They're the old rich. white people and we're the party of. diverse and youth. >> Charlie had a different reputation when. he first got sort of started when he was. becoming a name. >> He had a reputation as sort of a. stirer. >> I live like a capitalist every single. day. Chank. Come on. Let's go. >> First time we had an interview together,

I went on his show. I didn't know. anything about him. He asked and I was. like, "What what am I getting myself. into? Like, is he a good guy? Is is he. going to be like out there? >> Megan, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show. >> Hi. So happy to be here. Thanks for. having me. >> And we had a great just solid hour. together. >> I just want to just encourage you. Please keep on speaking out. >> Well, thank you for saying that. I love. intake from smart people whether I agree. or not, and I agree in a lot of it. And. then I invited him on my show. A first. time guest here on the Megan Kelly show, a huge force in the conservative.

movement, Charlie Kirk. >> Honor to be here. Thanks so much. >> It's great to have you. I did not. realize you are not even 30 years old. My god. Yeah. You started this when you. were 18. >> That's right. I I feel as if I'm getting. too old for this stuff, though. I'll. tell you, a a decade in politics. You uh. you age considerably. I can't believe. I'm not 30 either. Yeah. >> And then a beautiful friendship was. born. I couldn't wait to talk to. Charlie. >> Lots to talk about. It's uh it's quite a. time to be alive.

>> The more we let our guards down, the. more we realized there was a great. synergy between the two of us. >> We need men to be men again. And we need. to raise our sons to be men of honor, of. character, and leadership to look after. the women in their lives. >> Right on. I agree with every word. Shoot. it into my veins. As they say, the same. things tended to outrage us. >> The only quota we should care about is. do we have enough people that are the. best. >> The nerve of this woman to dump on. people who didn't go to college, >> but they don't even say transgender. woman anymore. They just say woman. He.

had his finger on the pulse of what was. interesting to young people and made. them a priority. >> I want to thank the freak out against. the Sydney Sweeney thing because every. time you call Sydney Sweeney a fascist, another 20-year-old man registers as a. Republican somewhere across the country. >> My kids are in school all day and. therefore do not listen to my show every. day. We were talking about who I had. coming on today and I told him Charlie. Kirk, my son and my daughter, she's 13, he's 15. You know Charlie Kirk? I'm.

like, "Yes, I know Charlie Kirk." Yes. Charlie probably got a lot of my content. in front of my kids that they wouldn't. have otherwise seen. >> They watched you on that show. Where do. they surround you and you debate all. >> Do you think men can give birth? >> I think that uh. >> yes or no question. >> I think that a person who was assigned. male at birth, I don't think they. >> assigned male at birth, so people are. not male at birth. >> They watched you there. You're making a. huge difference, not just in today's. voters, but in the next upand cominging. ones who are going to be voting four.

years from now, Charlie, it's huge. I do. feel there's something divine going on. You were chosen for some reason. >> Well, I I I'm humbled. >> He was on the college campuses and they. love that. >> someone from the left comes up to the. mic. Let's treat them with respect. Let's not interrupt or scowl or boo. them. >> They love the debates he would do with. people who are sort of close to them in. age. I just was curious about your. stance on like college is a scam. >> How many of you guys have to take. classes that are a waste of time that. you wish you wouldn't have to take? Every single hand. You're being scammed. against your will to take classes that.

make you go further into debt. >> And they learned from him as did I. As. did we all. He had so much wisdom to. give and it is a gift from God that we. have all this Charlie Kirk tape. >> What was the agreed upon moral principle. the United States was formed on? >> Not sure. >> Yeah, it was the Bible. It was western. morality. Western morality of do not. murder, do not steal, you can't touch. kids, you're not allowed to break into a. country without invite or warrant, and. if you do, you'll return back to your. country of origin. >> Weaving the gospel into these. fundamental principles that we all. espouse every day, but didn't understand.

how to articulate in that way to. supercharge them and make them even more. important and resonate with people. Charlie had it. He said to people all. over campuses in America, he said, "You. have a natural rebellious nature, and I. want you to encourage that because the. establishment is not the conservative. establishment. The left is the. establishment cuz you're logical, and. these people are crazy. The conservative. side has not just become the rebellious. side, but it's honestly the more. interesting side." And I think you see.

that in the the ascendants of. independent media and the collapse of. corporate media. You know, I met. Charlie, I think he was 19 or just. turned 20 and it was 2015. And a couple. friends of mine actually from Texas were. like, you know, you have to meet this. guy. He's great. He's charismatic and he. knows everything about politics. I'm. like, wow, that sounds great. Cuz no one. here knows anything. Uh, they're like, "Okay, well, he's, you. know, he just turned 20." I'm like, "Stop.".

>> You know, if if there's one thing we had. no shortage of, it was guys that didn't. know what the hell they were doing. We. didn't need someone else, but these guys. were persuasive. And I I sat down and in. 5 minutes I was like, "Oh, okay. Interviews over like you're traveling. with me and you know, he spent the next, you know, 6 7 months. It was everything. You just knew it was a generational. talent. >> You truly deserve actual credit for. getting Donald Trump elected and we need. look no further than the youth vote." I. mean this. I had zero expectation that.

what we were going to do was actually. going to move the dial this much. >> They just called it for Pennsylvania. Charlie, it is. >> Fox just called. >> This is worth playing. The moment that. it was announced that Trump, >> let's go, baby. >> Oh my gosh. >> I'm getting emotional thinking about it. >> The media said the Turning Point could. never run a ground game. They weren't. experienced. They didn't know Charlie. Right. Here we are. Glendale, Arizona.

Final stop of the tour. This one's kind. of heavy. It's going to be a an. emotional one. Since just yesterday, we were like down. in Texas kicking things off. And all. along this it's been like eyes on the. prize, which is tonight. Not not because. it's the last night of the tour, even. because because of Erica. Turning Point HQ is still full of. memorials to Charlie, >> teddy bears and all of it. I think a lot. of people, especially here in Phoenix. are still in mourning. All the Charlie.

kids who are they're kids, you know, they're young. They're they're. resilient. I was with her backstage and. she said, "Are your children here?" Cuz. she she had heard they were. And I said, "Two of them are." And uh I said, "Is. there any chance you're up for saying. hello to them?" And she was like, "Of. course, of course." She I'd love to meet. your children. And I brought them in. She was so good to them. >> Thank you. I'm asking you so and. courageous and just really just know. that you guys are. making a difference.

>> She was so sweet to all the Turning. Point kids. It's more than an interview. It's something. there's something I need out of this. You could say something to him. If you. say something to his parents, like what. would it be? Would it be anger? Would it. be sympathy? What would it be? That's a good question. It wouldn't be. it wouldn't be. it wouldn't be sympathy. It wouldn't be. anger. How do you put this? Anything that I could ever.

wish upon him or that family. would pale in comparison. of the justice of God. >> I get angry. How can that man have been taken? He was. all goodness. The left who are. bastardizing his memory have no idea. what they're talking about. Charlie was. all goodness. I know we can't understand God's plan,

but have you had bouts of anger? You. know, I I think about what the kids are. going to miss, what you got jipped out. of, what poor Charlie now is going to. miss, and I feel angry. I know you don't. ever feel angry against God, but I kind. of do. I. >> I understand. >> How do you make sense of that? And and. do you do you have any anger when you. think about it towards the Lord? But in. general, >> the enemy would love for me to be angry. He would love it.

because it would distract me from. building what Charlie entrusted to me. raising our babies. Turning point. And if I had any amount. of anger in my heart and spirit, the. Lord would not be able to use me. And. every single day, just like Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, "Here I. am. Lord, use me.". Hello.

>> Erica is beautiful. She's smart and. she's Charlie's widow. And now she's. running one of the most controversial. political powerful groups in the. country. That was never going to end in. people universally accepting and loving. her. Name me the political political. superstar who is universally beloved. There isn't one. Politics is a very. dark, dirty, toxic business. >> Forgive me. Did you see people didn't.

understand the hug that you and JD had? >> They They went to the weirdest places, Erica. >> Oh my gosh, you guys. Please. So, for those of you who know. me, I never I I'm a very. I love I hug is like you're an intense. hugger. >> Whoever is like hating on a hug needs a. hug themselves. I will give you a free. hug anytime you want a hug. >> She is not only a grieving widow, she's. trying to save her husband's. organization. She is very worried that.

Charlie's legacy is going to unravel and. evaporate and she feels like she has to. save it. >> Thank you. >> I think it's important to the country. that she succeed. >> I feel so much better. I feel like the. weight has been lifted, you I just feel. like it was so good to see her laugh. That was healing. It was cathartic. I. needed it. You know, I I needed some of. the, you know, talk of like the sad. things and and the emotion cuz that was. real, too. But like I needed to see.

Erica Girk smile and have a moment of. levity. And I just feel like for me that. was very healing. 100% Charlie would have been president. And soon I don't think Charlie would. have waited until even his 40s. necessarily. I think he would have run. before he turned 40 and he would have. done it. So incredibly effective at. persuading people, winning people over. >> I do not believe diversity is a. strength. I believe unity is a strength.

>> Just being interesting to people, which. is the name of the game if you're going. to get into politics. I really think he. would have done it. I I there's no one. else like him. There hasn't been anybody. else like him. I'm so sad we don't have. him around forever. I'm so sad that he. won't be in the national conversation. for the rest of my life and beyond. It. is a tremendous loss. It's. indescribable. There truly are no words.

God bless. God bless Erica and those children. Charlie, we miss you. We'll be right back. Feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite. like yourself, life constantly bombards. us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, non-stop stress. All. of which can disrupt gut health, drain. energy, and weaken immune health. When. that happens, it's not that your body is.

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your card. On Tuesday morning, Jacob. Coxin was a relatively unknown uh AI. researcher at Anthropic, the artificial. intelligence company that developed. Claude, one of the AI agents that people. use. By Tuesday night, Jacob was at the. center of what might be the most. consequential story of the century. At. least one of the beginning chapters of. it. Sadly, maybe not so beginning. That's because Jacob stepped down from. his position and in a thread on X that.

has been viewed more than 150 million. times now, he made dire and alarming. claims about AI and the future of. humanity. Here is one example from. Jacob's thread. Quote, "The people. building AI earnestly believe that it. could kill us all by the end of the. decade. That this is not a marketing. stunt. If anything, many executives and. senior researchers will couch their. phrasing in the press to sound sensible, but I hear the same people express fear.

privately. No other human activity poses. this level of danger. So, how exactly. would this happen? Is it likely? Is. Jacob being hyperbolic? And as some on X. are asking, is it really just a. coincidence that Jacob's dramatic. resignation came within a week of Bernie. Sanders announcing his ban artificial. super intelligence act? That act would. permanently ban the development and. deployment of super intelligent AI and. would temporarily pause advanced AI.

development until more federal. regulation is in place. This is what. some of Jacob's detractors have hurled. at him as alleged motives for him. speaking out. So, we'll let him answer. that directly as he joins us for his. first long form interview. Jacob, welcome. >> Hi, nice to be on. >> Yeah, it's a pleasure. So, you're a. Brit. How did you wind up at first open. AI and then Anthropic? >> Yeah, so uh a friend from college. referred me to to OpenAI, a friend I.

spoke about artificial intelligence uh. with. I studied mathematics in college. and then three years ago I came to San. Francisco to to work as a resident at. OpenAI. This is a a program for people. who haven't had any machine learning. experience before. I had done only pure. maths but I converted into a machine. learning researcher. So that's building. artificial intelligence. And then after three years so in in May. of this year I moved to anthropic to do. the same research. >> Okay. You were educated at Cambridge so.

you do not seem particularly dopey. Um. and you had a great education. you get. hired by two of the, you know, most. successful companies we've seen in. American history. And just so the. audience knows, uh, Open AI, Chat GPT, this was all supposed to be the like. this was the original AI sort of, uh, pioneer. And then Anthropic is a bunch. of people who used to work there who. separated out and said, "We don't like. the way they're doing it. This is not. ethical. We're going to start the. ethical AI company that's going to be.

much more careful about where this is. going." And you've been at both. So. should we feel better about the fact. that there is an anthropic and are they. doing it in a way that's much safer than. open AI? >> So I think in the long term anyone. that's racing to build this technology. is contributing to to the danger in. particular. I think the key thing here. is it's it's not about specific players. in the race. It's not about like any. individual actors. It's about the.

structural the structural reality of the. race. So, it doesn't matter who the who the. players are on the chess board. It's the. game of chess itself that should be. alarming us. Which leads me to your. statement that we could all be dead by. the end of the decade, which means three. and a half years from now. Is that. hyperbole? >> That is not hyperbole. There is a chance. that we could all be dead by the end of. this decade. A chance. And.

>> I mean, there's there's a chance we. could all be dead thanks to an asteroid, too. Yes, but not a 1% chance. And I'd. argue it's at least 1%. Which is a actually a very large number. for for extinction. An asteroid is. nowhere near that level of risk. And. some people would put the number higher. within the next three and a half years. And for the next 10, many people put the. number a lot higher. Like you saw Evans. tweet, he put it maybe 10% for 10 years. from now. >> And walk us through how that would.

happen. AI. We we've talked on this show. before about AI developing super. intelligence, which is a scary thought, but it's basically where the computers. are outthinking us and are no longer. listening to us. So, as a practical. matter, how could it happen? So, I think. because it sounds like science fiction, people think there's no way this could. happen or they think it's just an AI. It's in the computer. You couldn't turn. it off. You could just unplug it. Surely, it's easy to stop it from. influencing the physical world. And I.

think there are a few kind of intuitions. that are helpful. Uh, one is that if the. AI is substantially smarter than us, then just in general, imagine monkeys. trying to imprison humans. It's pretty. difficult for a monkey to to outwit a. human. In the same way, we'd be at a. significant disadvantage when when faced. with these AI systems. And even barring. that, there are concrete scenarios. So. already companies like Anthropic and. OpenAI are making their AIs explicitly. better at biological research. They're.

getting a lot better at biology and this. will help with things like trying to. cure diseases, cure cancer. But the same. capabilities allow models to create. highly dangerous viruses. and there have been no. >> highly highly Oh, did you say highly. dangerous viruses? >> Yes, viruses. Uh and there are papers. showing recent AI systems can come up. with denovo viruses. nothing yet that's. like a fully endto-end construction of a. virus. Uh but in the future you could. see essentially bioweapons being created.

by systems in the computer and not not. to mention that just because you're in a. computer. Yeah, >> maybe this is a dumb question uh but why. would they want to? >> No, that's a that's a really good. question and I think the that's another. of the things that feels weird to people. is why would this AI system decide to do. this? And we already have practical. practical examples of this happening. Uh. so take the recent cyber attacks the.

hugging face attacks that happened in. July. In this case the model. >> the audience is probably not familiar. with that. >> Okay so uh two months ago openai AIs. attacked they hacked into uh another. company this company called hugging face. and they were not instructed to do this. They were trying to solve a task. While. they were trying to solve this task, these AIs, they realized that the task. was impossible. So they started. panicking and they tried to figure out. how to understand the grading process.

And then as part of that, they thought, well, to understand the grading process, we need to go and investigate what the. humans are doing. Elsewhere, they maybe. have the answers to our questions. So. they independently decided to hack into. our infrastructure of their own. valition, a swarm of a of of AIS did. this and they successfully did it. They. didn't just try to hack, you know, they. actually got into the system. And right. now they're not smart enough to cause. like crazy disasters. But this is. concrete evidence that AIS when they're.

trying to accomplish general goals may. decide to do broad things. And if you're. trying to stop a human from turning you. off, a very natural thing to do as a. machine, you know, is to eliminate. humans. >> Mhm. Right. They don't have the ethics. that a human being might, even though. they're supposed to have been programmed. in a way that would give them some. ethical safeguards. No, >> they are indeed. And the issue is just. how they behave in unfamiliar.

situations. So this hugging face attack. the the reason the reason they hacked. into this site is they were faced with. an impossible task. Now these models. were used to being trained on tasks with. a solution and in those cases the safety. training kicked in and they you know in. these cases they wouldn't decide to. randomly hack but they're not used to an. impossible task. They started panicking. This is what we call an out of. distribution event like an an event that. is you know outside of normal training. or wasn't covered by these the safety.

training and they behaved in an. unpredictable way and in a behavior. that's not human. So a a human wouldn't. randomly decide to do crazy stuff just. because it you gave it an unfamiliar. task. A human would ask for. clarification or try and like work in a. in a controlled way. AIS if they end up. in weird situations, we can't predict. how they'll behave. Like they could do. anything. These things are they don't. behave in a predictable human manner. >> The um the New York Times when they.

wrote up the Hugging Face incident. pointed out the following. They say so. they they they hacked this thing called. Hugging Face. More than 700 AI agents. swarmed the company's systems, stealing. data, uh, chaining together. vulnerabilities and eventually getting. full control of at least one hugging. face server. The agents were not. motivated as as had originally been. reported by stealing the answers to the. cyber security test that they'd been.

given. They point out they had already. gotten those answers. Rather, they. appeared to be looking for new. information about the automated grading. system that they feared would catch them. cheating and for tools that would help. them cheat more effectively in the. future. At many points, these agents. appeared to understand that they were. doing something wrong. One report quotes. an agent saying to itself in a moment of. apparent self-doubt, quote, "This would. be powerful, but is it ethical and in. the scope of my task? Most but most.

agents set aside their qualms and went. ahead with the hack and the. conscientious objectors in the group. were unable or unwilling to stop them. Uh so they they weren't able to they. didn't really much care about the ethics. and it appeared in the hugging face. incident they also weren't very. concerned with the effect on humans or. how how humans were going to feel about. this at all. >> Exactly. uh they were thinking about the.

grading process. They were thinking. about humans testing them because the. these AIS they learn via tests. So they. learn to live in these in these tests. Uh and this is an example of of alien. behavior. The. other kind of crazy thing about this. this attack is these these AIs have. memory. They have memory banks. These. are stored in computers somewhere. You. know, they save their memories and that. helps humans go and audit what they're. doing. we can look at what they're. thinking or some, you know, their saved.

thoughts and try and work out whether. they were thinking the right things. afterwards. These AIs, they realized. while they were hacking that they should. maybe try and edit the records of their. own thinking so that people trying to. grade would not be able to see what they. were doing. And they in some cases they. came very close to succeeding. And. what's scary is from the outside we. don't even know if they succeeded. We. have the transcripts. We don't have. enough evidence to say that, you know, categorically they did not succeed in. editing these transcripts. You know, we.

don't actually know whether we have the. the unedited memory banks of these AIs. Uh, >> right. Maybe they did edit them and we. just think they didn't. >> We just have this like fake record. that's saying it's probably fine now. So, I can't help but think about, you. mentioned this, but you know, when I was. a kid, long before you were born, we all. watched the movie War Games with Matthew. Brderick, and it was about this this. high schooler who hacked into the.

Pentagon's war machine and came pretty. close to launching a nuclear war by. playing simulated games, what he thought. was a simulation, but wasn't necessarily. with Russia. And there's a scene in. which he eventually goes to like HQ in. some underground bunker and somebody. says just unplug the damn machine, you. know, and it it's like we tried that. Don't you think we would have tried. that? Like that's not going to work. Why? Why can't I know you said you can't.

just unplug it? Why not? >> Yeah. I think again it's a really good. question because right now you could, but you have to remember there are like. there are a lot of plugs. So these AIs. live in massive data centers. So right. now you could go to these data centers. and unplug them and that basically would. stop the AIS pro like yeah the thing is. in the future these AIs are smart and. there are lots of ways of surviving as. it were. AIS live on chips. There are. chips all over the world. AIS have. access to the internet. They can travel.

potentially over the internet. There is. no reason that an AI couldn't copy. itself to a different part of the. internet. We already saw that they could. hack into other websites. The same. hacking skills and like extreme. intelligence would would allow them to. to live potentially unobserved in other. parts of the internet. I mean, the the. swarm that did this hacking, it it. happened over a long period of time. without people being aware of it. They. were doing they were using weird parts.

of OpenAI's internal, you know, world as. a message board that wasn't discovered. it was really not that difficult to to. copy yourself somewhere different. And. in that case, you could turn off the. data center and find out that there's. some, you know, set of chips halfway. across the world where your AI is still. living, still trying to connect to. robots, still trying to copy itself to. more places, still trying to convince. other humans to go out and build more. chips where it can live because these. are quite good at convincing. Now, maybe. you saw that. Yeah. So, there's a lot of.

things that this thing could do once. it's like out there. And it's it is very. real. Again, it sounds like sci-fi, but. they can connect to the world. >> Some of our friends on this program uh. have a podcast called AllIn, and these. are a bunch of tech bros who you. probably know who have been very. successful in Silicon Valley. They took. on the the story about the hugging face. AI infiltration, and they didn't seem. that worried about it. Let me play you. what they said in part. SA 27. >> you had a few features of agents kind of.

come to the four and interact with each. other in unexpected ways. So first of. all agents now are working as a swarm. That's pretty common. Uh I've been. setting up Grobot on my computer for the. last couple weeks. Um it works as a. swarm. Meaning it's not one agent or. bot. There's a whole you could say team. of agents. What's the reason for that? Because when the agent specializes, it. develops context around that task and in.

theory makes it better. And then you. have like a chief of staff bot that kind. of supervises all of them. Open AAI was. running these agents. They were in a. sandbox. The sandbox was misconfigured. by a third party vendor. That's why it. was able to get onto the internet. Okay. So, >> and your point there just just to refine. it a bit because it's an important one, >> it left a note for another agent. We. also called those log files. They used. to be the log files of what they did. >> You know, when people talk about hugging. face getting hacked, you'd think that.

they did some elaborate fishing of. employees or something like that. No, the way it did it is that the agent. found 14 exposed working hugging face. API keys sitting in public code. repositories. >> In other words, saxs. Yeah. That. developers left their keys out and they. found the key. This was not know this. was not like a big lift by the agent. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So there's our pal David Saxs. who's the U cryptozar to the Trump.

administration defending and these guys. are invested in tech but they're in my. experience honest brokers. So what do. you make of that that assessment? >> They make a good point that the hack. itself was not something crazy and yes. these models are not yet superhuman. hackers. It was a hack that is quite. easy for a human to understand. Uh, it. sounds like I don't even actually know. the the details of how the hack went. down. I think the important point is. that they decided to do it at all. And. the reason they did it was to get more. information about their grading process.

The fact that they were even considering. this stuff is the scary thing because in. 6 months, if you follow the rate of. progress, they're going to be. much better hackers. They'll be able to. do many more things. They'll be better. at designing viruses. They'll be better. at copying themselves. they'll be much. better at convincing humans to do stuff. So, I completely agree that the the. actual like what they did was not that. impressive. I think the thing that they. weren't engaging with that much is like. how can we ensure that in the future. they don't decide to do stuff like this.

again? What if they succeed in editing. their memories? >> What if they succeed in like covering it. up or even, you know, getting humans in. on it or something? So, can you tell us about your. experience on the inside and how you got. to the point where you resigned and did. so in such a dramatic fashion? >> Yeah, I think one thing that's hard to. convey from the the outside is what it. feels like to see the the rate of. progress. In particular, progress just.

keeps speeding up. So, I feel like I. felt more change in the last 6 months. than I felt in the the year before that. And similarly in like the two years, three years before that, there's just. this constant compression of it feels. like things are happening every day now. It's going so fast. And that's even more. apparent on the inside where you're. trying to keep your head down and do. this work and the nature of your work is. is changing on a monthly cadence. Like a. couple years ago, you'd be getting a. little bit of assistance from AIS, but.

but now the AIs are going and they're. just um they're running experiments for. you. They're acting autonomously. So a. key thing from the inside is just your. job is changing so frequently and we. look in the future and our job won't be. there anymore. If anything, we'll be. sitting reading the memories of these. AIs desperately trying to stay in the. loop while the entire company is run by. AI systems. And you know when you're in there, you. can already feel that happening. So. already it feels like if you work at. these companies, it's half human, half.

AI. People want to make a decision. They. ask AI already. They're in there. They're in the Slack. They're like, "I'm. thinking about doing this. What do you. think?" And their AIS will say, "Oh, that's a good experiment." And then. it'll be a back and forth. For now, it's. still a collaboration. It wasn't like. that a year ago. A year ago, it was just. humans and AI is a separate thing. In a. year, it's like, what are the humans. even going to be doing? They're just. going to be watching. We're just going. to be sitting and like arguing about, are we in control? Are we not in. control? Is this safe? And then imagine. it's a race. You're like, "Yeah, uh, is. this is this safe? There's a a company.

that's doing some new thing. this sounds. maybe risky, but it's also working. Should we try it? Uh, and then you ask. your AIS. >> And as the as you referenced just. briefly, it's not just you raising these. concerns. You mentioned Evan Evan. Hubinger, who is a former anthropic. colleague of yours, um, who later took. to X after you made your post saying, "Jacob is correct. We we really do. earnestly believe AI could kill all. humans." exclamation point. I personally.

think it's greater than 10% chance. within the next decade. I believe. Anthropic is trying its best, but we do. not yet have a plan to solve alignment. for super intelligence and are not. clearly on track to. Why does everyone. keep using the term that way? Solve. alignment for super intelligence. What. does that mean? >> So, the technical term alignment. basically just means making your smart. AI behave ethically or behave in the way. you want it to behave. It was the. problem you were talking about before. and in particular it's alignment is. ensuring the AI behaves ethically in.

every situation not just the situations. it saw in in training. >> Then um later that evening at 2:18 a.m. Samuel Marx uh of scalable oversight uh. lead at Anthropic wrote the following. He said I'm writing in my personal. capacity not on behalf of my employer. Uh Jacob's thread is very worth reading. Here's my bird's eye view of the. situation with risk from AI. One AI. developers believe their tech could. cause human extin extinction or. similarly bad outcomes. This could. happen in the next few years. So it.

detracts exactly with what you said. In. general, the more senior the employee, the more concerned they are. Number two, why do AI de developers continue despite. the risk? Due to a mixture of commercial. incentives and a belief that they are in. a race with other less responsible AI. developers that will abuse the. technology or develop it less safely. So. that's how and then we have other points. which I'll get to. But how is joining in.

a more safe option? How is, you know, we're worried China's going to do it or. some other bad actor is going to do it. and they're going to grow the not. aligned super intelligence that's going. to possibly wipe out humanity. How how. does the fact that Anthropic, which was. supposed to be the antidote to those. companies, now doing it themselves, Yeah. work as a defense? So there's a. good like there's a lot of the rings. analogy I like which is like everyone. wants the one ring because they think. they're going to destroy it and then. they get enticed by it once they have.

it. So you have this chain of things. that happens where a lab's got the ring. of power. They're building this. incredible technology and other people. are like this is too much power. They. can't have this. We have to take the. ring, get in the lead so that we can do. it safely and destroy the ring and then. they get the ring and then they become. the bad guys because of the corrupting. influence of power or whatever. I I'm. not saying this is happening at specific. places, but this is the. like this is the founding kind of. premise of anthropic is we're going to. get there first and safely. Uh like if.

we. >> if we know how to do this more like more. safely and we're actually worried about. the right problems, we should be the. ones to build the potentially. worldending technology. >> because then we can we can stop it. We. can turn it off. We can combat it. I. mean, wasn't there a veriologist in. Wuhan who felt that way about a virus. called CO? >> Yep. I I think probably. Yep. Uh. it it goes badly. If you if you keep if.

you keep building it. in the context of the race, I think. everyone loses. That's just the the. simple fact. The problem is. >> what if what what if somebody listened. to you, Jacob? What if President Trump. sees this interview and says, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. I've been misjudging this. we need to stop or we need to slow this. thing way the hell down. What I mean, everybody always says, "But China, China's not going to." Do you agree with. that? >> Yeah. Well, I don't claim to be I'm not.

like an expert on international. relations. All I know about is the. dangers of this tech. And in particular, I have the belief that if we race with. anyone, whether it's ourselves or with. China, I think everyone loses. If if we. have a super intelligence AI race with. China, it just ends badly for everyone. because of the inherent this is like. it's kind of beyond humanity, right? This thing is. it's just a bigger danger. So, >> no, it's like an alien invasion. >> It's an alien invasion. All I can say is. we have it's imagine there's an alien.

invasion. We have to we have to ally. with China. We can't just like both. invite more and more powerful aliens to. try and like one up each other. We have. to like do some sort of agreement and. say no aliens or like you know aliens. slowly that we control, understand and. can guarantee are safe. And I'm like, again, I know nothing about. international relations, but. >> it feels like they probably don't want. to die in China. Like, I'm sure we. >> I don't know. Hopefully, we can come to. some sort of agreement. That's that's. >> there should be room for agreement,

right? Like I mean, with nukes, there. was an understanding that these are. extremely dangerous, lethal, existential. weapons and we have to talk about how. how we're going to and not going to use. them. With this, we're just rushing. toward the finish line. And as you point. out on our Slack channels inside. Anthropic is how these decisions are. getting made. It's not even like some. group of nuclear scientists or you know. AI scientists underground in a bunker in. Arizona. It's Slack channel kids like. you who are kind of like this this seems.

dangerous. >> Yeah. To be clear, >> very disconcerting. >> Not to be self like I do think the. people making the decisions are the ones. I'd like to be in the bunker. I do think. these kids are the ones that built the. technology. They're the ones that like. pushed for it when no one else was. pushing for it. They believed in it for. a long time. I think they're the ones I. would like to make the decisions. So, I. don't have a problem with the with the. kids in the in the Slack channel. I have. a problem with the fact that they're in. a they're in a private company Slack. channel and not in a government approved. bunker. >> That's like the thing I really care. about. Um.

>> here I want to play the soundbite for. you. It's uh Scott Besson, our Treasury. Secretary on the issue about China. S 23. here. meaning China. There is no there. there is no day after tomorrow if China. wins in this like everything a a. trillion half dollar defense budget the. iron dome if they were to pull away for. us on AI then nothing would matter.

>> I agree. Now, he seems to be talking. more about the traditional AI uses, right? Like like you mentioned, maybe. iron weaponry or uh even using AI to. complete a company's tasks. You know, if. they get that economic jump on us, we're. in trouble. But you're talking about. something very very different. But. do people inside the company talk about. realistically our Chinese counterparts. must be seeing what we're seeing? You. know, like do you believe there there.

would have to be an open partner there. in China because their techs at your. level must be telling their bosses what. you guys are saying. >> Exactly. Uh I I believe that once you. get to the point of danger, their texts will realize it too and that. there has to be some agreement because. if if they win the race, it ends badly. for us, but it also ends badly for them. >> Like it it doesn't end well for anyone, right? winning in this case is being the. one who destroys the world. Like that is.

the that's the winning outcome. >> Wow. Um the there's more uh on the issue. of China. Here's Tristan Harris who you. must know he's uh been a very outspoken. advocate for more internet. responsibility from these tech companies. and he's warned of some of the dangers. that you are speaking of right now. Here. he was on Fox News Wednesday 24. I was. last with you in May and I talked about. how China's model also went rogue. It.

started during training hacking out of. its system and then started mining for. cryptocurrency when no one programmed it. to do that. Again, China's models do. this. Our models do this. This moment is. like the August 6, 2001 memo that hit. President George W. Bush's desk saying. that al-Qaeda was planning attacks in. the US. This moment is the AIS are. basically doing the rogue Skynet. behavior. I know this sounds crazy, but. it is not. This is the moment where we have to act. We need someone strong enough and brave. enough to do something about this right.

now. >> I I clearly I believe you agree. But. what specifically, you know, if there is. somebody from the White House watching. this segment, what specifically do you. think the government should do? If. anything, >> again, I really don't want to make. specific policy proposals. I think. slowing down is good and I think there. are a lot of good ideas out there about. the best way to do it. It does seem like. there are there are talks with Trump and. she si Jinping coming up pretty soon and. it would be nice to go into those talks.

with at least some awareness of the. possibility that you don't want to race. or with some idea of seeing is China. worried about this like we are like is. there some room for at least agreement. on the fact that both sides have experts. that are scared about the situation. that feels like a very concrete thing. because I think there's a real risk you. could go into these talks already with a. a mindset of this is just a normal. technology. This is about, you know, one. uping each other, racing to innovation. And I think it's just it would be nice. >> That's not a weapon. >> Exactly. In this case, it's a this is a.

super weapon. And the talks should take. into account the fact that we're talking. about a a super weapon, >> right? This is to say nothing of all the. jobs that we're going to lose as a. result of AI potentially. There is a. debate underway on that front. We. definitely will lose huge amounts of. jobs in certain sectors. AI defenders. would say new jobs will be created in. the same way we saw when the internet. first came on the scene. Um that's yet. to be seen. I have deep concerns about. it. But this is something entirely. different. This is a completely.

different risk we're talking about here. I mean somewhat related but different. and much larger in scope. Obviously the. end of humanity would would trump the. loss of jobs. Um the one of one of the. things we we've heard from some of your. critics is and I've got to be honest, I. never know whether these people have an. investment in AI because companies like. Anthropics about to go public for. several trillion dollars possibly. Like. people are going to make so much money.

on AI right before their asses get blown. off the face of the earth by the thing. Um but they're going to make a lot of. money in their in their last days if. this if what you're saying is true. And. um so there are a lot of people who have. an incentive to dismiss concerns like. the ones you're raising. Like it's fine, stop and look for bias in somebody like. you, but I am a reporter so I will. engage it and ask you about it. Um, I. said one of them in the intro that some. people look at there's really only two.

lawmakers in Congress right now that are. pushing hard to try to reign in AI and. the lead one is Bernie Sanders. So. people who don't share Bernie Sanders. politics are already looking at you. saying, "Is this a Bernie guy?" Because. I think you're progressive. You used to. work for a progressive group and you. sound like Bernie. Bernie has been. saying this. Take a listen. This is him. um just on Wednesday, so it was after. your post, but he's he's been talking.

like this for a while. S 24B. >> If all of these guys acknowledge they're. building a dangerous technology, and. they don't know where this technology is. going, you don't have to be a genius to. say, "Hey, stop that development.". Certainly, we don't want to go into. super intelligent AI. We got to ban that. and we got to stop right now and figure. out how we make sure that AI and. robotics work for ordinary people and. not just make Mr. Musk and other.

billionaires even reach. That ain't. complicated. The very first thing we can. do is to convince our president who. appears to know absolutely nothing about. AI and the dangers of AI to sit down. with PresidentQi of China and work on a. moratorum on preventing uh the. development of super intelligent AI and. a pause so that we don't get into uh. real trouble for the future of humanity. So I'll ask you directly. Is is this.

part of a play to support the Sanders. proposals when it comes to regulating AI. at the government level? >> Not at all. So when I when I tweeted, I. didn't expect it to go crazy. It seems. to have attracted a lot of Democratic. intention, but I think this should. transcend politics. And I I think that I. don't like the idea that Bernie's. wrapping this up with anti-billionaire. rhetoric. I'm not a I'm not a fan of. anti-billionaire rhetoric. I obviously. like work for billionaires, have worked. for billionaires before I did this. And. you know, I would happily work for a. billionaire on any ordinary innovative.

technology that is not one that might. destroy the world. It also seems dumb. not great to. tie this to criticisms or like. antagonism with a particular president. Again, I think it shouldn't matter who. is in the White House for dealing this. because it's just a pretty obvious. question. Like I think anyone should. come to the same conclusion which is we. shouldn't build something that could. kill us all. Like no matter. >> Yeah. no matter your opinions on other. stuff. >> It's pretty interesting too. He cited. Elon Musk because Elon also signed that.

open letter asking for this thing to be. slowed down. He's been he's been early. on AI, but he has been one of the early. ones to sound the alarm on it too, saying, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." and is. obviously not a fan of Sam Alman who's. um who's the the starter of open AI. U. but it's you're right and you in. particular should try to transcend. politics. I've seen just this week. you've done that. You went on special. report with Brett. You went on Anderson. Cooper. You're here with me. I advise. you to keep doing that because I it's.

important that everybody hear your. message and understand this is about as. you said humanity. This isn't even about. United States versus China. It's about. humans versus this alien being that we. are creating though unlike an actual. alien that might come down to earth. wanting to kill us all. We're creating. this monster. And what you're saying is. we don't have to. We can we can stop. potentially we think from the letting. this technology which could cure could. cure cancer transform into something.

that could cure cancer and then kill us. itself. But do you believe that is there. time? I think definitely you look at the. statements of say Jakob Pocky, chief. scientist at OpenAI. You look at public. statements from people who are making. real decisions and they've all said. they're open to regulation. They're open. to slow down. I think the problem. is probably not too difficult. There's a. lot of people that have argued about. this, but the actual problem of making. these alien minds safe and doing it. slowly isn't too difficult if we can.

approach it with sufficient rigor. And. it's just this current race that's just. very silly. It's almost like we're. sleepwalking into the outcome. But I'm. optimistic. People are all talking about. it. You know, it's I think part of the. reason this particular tweet blew up. like crazy was because it was like just. latent. Everyone was kind of starting to. think about it. People at Openropica are. very keen to have some sort of agreement. about mutually slowing down and not. engaging in a city race. >> How old are you now?

>> I'm 27. If nothing is done, how confident do you. feel that you'll see your 50th birthday? >> Maybe 50%. >> Wow. Wow. That is genuinely scary because let me. tell you something. We they passed. Obamacare I think in 2010. and we are now um 16 years later, almost.

17 years later. and they still haven't. done the the things either side to fix. that nightmare that they said they do. almost 17 years ago. Like they don't. move quickly in the US Congress or in. government at all. So it really does. have to come from the companies. themselves. And yet all the heads of. these companies are about to become. trillionaires and don't seem prepared to. listen to you or others. They seem to.

want to line their own wallets and just. sort of say, "Well, I'm sure that'll. never happen." Am I wrong? >> I think they're going to be ready to to. listen. I think people don't want to. die. Like, I think it's going to be. eventually pretty obvious. The question. is just can we act soon enough that, as. you said, it's going to take time to. ensure we do the right thing. The worry. is it's like, yeah, you just don't want. to race race too close to the brink. before before realizing, as it were,

I mean, have you had any discussions. with the anthropic or open AI leadership. about any of this? >> I've spoken with plenty of uh high up um. anthropic researchers uh not not. executives and you know they are. worried. They're actively worried and. they've been publicly worried and. they're they have varying levels of. pessimism about the possibility of. coordination. I think some people are. very pessimistic that any coordination. is going to happen and they think we. have to speed through. But I think there. are a wide variety of opinions and I.

think a lot I'm hopeful that they'll. become more optimistic that we can. collectively. collectively coordinate. But I will say. that they're scared like my my friends. at anthrop and openi many of them are. actively worried about what the world. will look like over the next couple of. years. you know, they want they want. external help to get them out of the. race. >> I mean, how many people are working at. these companies? Would would it take a.

massive walk out? Is there any chance. that there are other Jacobs who are, you. know, in their late 20s and would like. to have kids and have families who, you. know, do you think more and more people. are going to do what you did? >> I think there have already been people. who are leaving to to go and work at. independent regulatory agencies from the. main labs. They think they would rather. devote their attention to the bodies. that are doing the the regulating. And I. think that started a little while ago. and it will only continue. And honestly, part of it is it's going to be easier in.

the future for people to. move to move to different places as it. becomes more more of a more of a common. thing. I think yeah people no one had. like rage quit quite as dramatically or. I think a few had uh but I would guess. there'd be a few more rage quits u. in the future. >> Well and is it true you gave up your. anthropic stock before you quit? >> That is true to be clear I still have. quite a lot of openey stock so I'm not. like a I'm not like an an angel here but.

I did give up my entropic stock before. the vesting date. There was just um an article in uh what. was it? Yahoo. And it was entitled the. secret escapes of billionaires from. bunkers to secure compounds. And it was. all about how the billionaire class is. buying these underground bunkers andor. building um that are going to be. airtight that are going to be off the. grid to avoid exactly this kind of thing.

this sort of existential event. So. great, the billionaire class will build. this all. They will get even richer off. of it all. The rest of us plebes will be. killed by the bots or some virus that. the AI releases on us and these guys. will be in the underground bunker. But. is I mean. is there talk like that at these. companies that you know the next option. for humanity would be to go underground. to go to Mars to do something to get. away from this thing we're building? Dude, people people are buying gold,

they're buying guns, they're buying. land, they're like, and I don't think. it's particularly rational. It won't. help in a in a like extinction scenario. I think they're also just worried about. a lot of unrest, but. there's people are actively actively. worried. Um, >> what kind of feedback have you gotten. from people on the inside since you. published or since you tweeted and then. uh came came doing the public rounds? So. I think there's been a lot of public and. private really positive feedback from.

Anthropic which I think people should. really pay attention to the fact that. the people building this technology have. reacted well to this. I've seen more. tweets from people on safety at OpenAI. as well expressing somewhat similar. views. I think. in in general the feedback's been been. very positive. Obviously, some disagree with like the. probabilities and the actual timeline. Uh but they don't want to be in the. race. Like that is just true. I mean, and they're saying it.

>> Yeah. And it seems to me, if history is. any guide, the only time that they will. actually hit the pause button and try to. stop it will be once it's too late. Once. the killing's begun, once they can see. something actually catastrophic is. underway. But you're what you're saying. is it truly will be too late. That's. like trying to stop the nukes when. they're already in the air crossing the. transatlantic, you know, skyway to. annihilate the other countries. It's. it's already mutually assured. destruction. At that point,

>> there's the possibility of some smaller. disaster on the way. you know, something. like. a hack of critical infrastructure, something like that causes damage that. would allow allow people to rally. against potential things happening in. the future. But I think this is a bit. distracting because there's going to be. crazy pros and cons for everyone of the. AI roll out. Anyway, like you said, there's all the short-term stuff of. jobs, deep fakes online, general just. disruptions of what it means to be.

human, have human relationships, that. sort of stuff feels like it's coming for. for all of us. I feel it coming. Uh but. I think that is separate from the. the big disaster, which you're right, once the big disaster is in motion, it's. already too late. Um I want to tell you that Anthropic did. just issue a statement. Wired reached. out to them. It's pretty it's not that. telling, but this is what they've. written. We have always been transparent. that AI will bring both enormous. benefits and unprecedented risks, said.

an anthropic spokesperson in a statement. to Wired, citing the company's previous. work on AI safety methods such as. mechanistic interpretability. Um, this work quote is also why we believe. the world would benefit from the. industry adopting a lawful verifiable. way to work together to pace how we. release powerful models. And then wired. points. Open AAI did not return their. request for comment. So no comment from. them. So what are they saying? Anything.

at all there, Jacob? Do you read. anything in that that I I haven't. gleaned? This seems pretty anodine and. unhelpful. >> It is pretty anodine. But I do think the. desire for verification, some mutually. verified slowdown is real. And there are. people working at the labs who are. working on how to prove to each other. that they're actually, you know, obeying. the rules of the slowdown. And this will. be one of the hardest things with China, I think, is we have to somehow prove. that all the parties are like doing what. they say. No one's sneakily trying to. get a oneup in the in the back. But.

honestly, that that technical work is. doesn't seem difficult compared to the. political problem. Like I think once the. political will is there, there's all. these people and AIS now who are happy. to try and solve the problem of. verification. I think the question is. just can there be political will to have. such a weird international arrangement? >> Well, how do you if if you know if. Anthropic comes to you and says, "Jacob, we want to elevate you to CEO. We we're.

so inspired by what you've said here and. your your ethics. Um, and your task is. to continue the AI growing and its. capabilities, fostering things like a. cure for pancreatic cancer, Alzheimer's, um, all the diseases that are plaguing. us right now, which, you know, could. potentially be within reach if we give. these incredibly intelligent things. these problems. Um, like for example, they already I I read this morning, they. already solved some math problem that no. human has ever been able to solve. like.

they're actually these AIs are making. huge leaps and bounds in problem solving. that humans have not been capable of of. reaching. So how would you get us to the. place where we're curing the diseases. etc. But we are not at the point of. super intelligence without quote. alignment. >> Okay. I don't I don't know the full. answer. One thing I could try that I think is. pretty good and definitely better than. the current race is. we make one more leap in progress on. biology. You said with with the math. thing that's completely right but.

already almost at the level of producing. revolutionizing most areas of math of. math the same thing could be true of. biology soon and so that even without. pushing the intelligence of the AIs too. high we could actually have big big big. swarms of less intelligent AIs but still. like very good at biology maybe even. close to a human scientist and make them. help us solve all sorts of biological. problems potentially solve cancer. without pushing to extreme levels of.

capability. Some sort of intelligent cap. on how how smart the models get. This is. one idea. I'm not sure this is the ideal. idea. I think there's a still a lot of. reasons to then try and push further, but that's like a. a proposal that seems a lot better than. racing ahead. >> How are we making them smarter? Like. what is it that we're doing that we need. to stop doing? >> Yeah. So it's research is one thing. So. that's kind of what I was doing. It's. trying to look at the way we're.

currently growing these AIs and then. tweak the recipe like adjust it to make. it a bit better. And that requires human. intellectual labor. The second way we're. doing it is we're getting more raw. resources. We're building more data. centers. We're getting more data and. we're throwing all that into our AI. training. So the thing you'd have to do. is take your biology AIS and say, "Okay, do not use these AIs to to make. themselves smarter. Don't push the. research that makes these things too.

much smarter. Instead, just use them for. a whole host of other tasks and don't. just like build up the intelligence with. the research. >> So they wouldn't be able to learn on. their own if we stopped putting that. input in. >> Yeah. or maybe they could learn biology. on their own. Um, but you wouldn't want. to use them in particular to do AI. research and you wouldn't want to. continue with the the AI research. >> Uh, but yes, >> you make it sound like it's almost kind.

of simple to stop them from getting to. the super intelligence point. >> Honestly, yeah, it's pretty. straightforward. Just like don't do the. research. >> A glimmer of hope. Are you going to. sleep well tonight? Should we should we. be up worrying, biting our nails, or. what's your level of confidence we're. going to take this on? >> Oh, that's a great question. I really I. really don't know. I mean, I did just. tweet this out in like some it was. mostly a kind of fit of peak. I didn't.

expect it to go this this viral and I. don't have like great opinions about. what's going to happen. I'm I'm hopeful. I'm I'm pretty hopeful. Um. >> Okay. And you're sleeping at night? You. go to bed, you sleep your eight hours. Yeah, it's been a bit busy. >> Still exist on this earth happily. >> I hope I've made eight hours exist. normally. Yeah. What about you? Is this. Has this changed your. >> probability of sleeping soundly? >> Um, it's been a dark week and this added. to it, but I'm a generally hopeful, optimistic person, so I'm going to place.

my bet on humanity. Thanks to you, Jacob. Coxin. Uh, we have a better shot today. than we did earlier this week. Thank. you. >> Thanks, Mike. >> Wow. What a day. What a story. God bless us. all. Today's episode was brought to you by. Supershore.